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BoBoDaClown
04-20-2014, 11:40 PM
I have noticed there are a lot of weirdos out there who don't like playing lots of different bards; this bard is for them, as it can fulfill a variety of roles.

If you want to build one bard, that can slot into whatever party, this is for you. This bard is designed to be able to fulfill a CC, Heal and DPS role.

This bard would probably be quite a blast to play in epic hard, but might fall short in certain areas to be effective in EE.

It leverages PDK cha to damage and the soundburst SLA from Exalted Angel.

CC: Will come through Exalted Angel Soundburst SLA. Back up through weak DC bard spells, OID (low SR), enthrall/fascinate, potentially siren's song

Heal: Capable of party healing through Cacoon, Capstone, Empower Healing, Quicken, Mass Cures

DPS: PDK charisma to damage/Cleave/OC/PA/some through destiny and twists

I'm not going to make one until I see the new bard PRE.

The One Bard
PDK 20 Bard
36pt needed

Str: 18 + 5 tome = 23 +OC (+6 tome would be super useful, allowing con to be bumped)
Con: 12
Cha: 18 + level ups

Feats (in no particular order):
1) Empower Healing
1) Cleave
3) THF
6) ITHF
9) Quicken
12) Improved Crit
15) Power Attack
18) Spell Focus Enchant: Opens up potential Magister DC twist
21) Inspire Excellence
24) Great Cleave
27) OC
30) GTHF

26) Lasting Inspiration
28) Forced Escape

Skills: Balance, Concentration, Haggle, Perform, UMD, Heal

ENHANCEMENTS

PDK:
Damage Boost
Charisma
Knight Training (Cha to hit and dam)
+3 Charisma Action Boost
Improved Recovery 1
8AP

SPELLSINGER
Spellsinger
Sewers, Dead, Makers
Virtuoso
Master of Life and Death (2 cha, Heal, Wail)
Magical Training (SP)
Lingering Songs
Wand/Scroll Heightening and Mastery 3
Marigold (+1 enchant)
Enthrallment
Spellsong Trance
2x Charisma
Sustaining Song
Spell Pen 3
Song of Arcane Might
Song of Capering
Adv Magical Studies 3 (SP)
Spellsong Vigor
Prodigy 3 (+2 enchant +2 spell pen, SP proc)
45AP

WARCHANTER
Skaldic Rage
2 x Fighting Spirit (+20 hp +2 dam to song)
Song of Herosm
Poetic Edda (+3 songs)
Enchant Weapon
Rough and Ready 2 (+4 PR)
Iced Edges (+1d6 cold dam)
Gathering Cold
Sprint Boost 1
Obstinance (+12 spell power)
Northwind (2d8 cold dam on crit hit)
2 x Charisma
High Spirits (+12 spell power post)
27AP

DESTINY
Would probably run in either Fatesinger or Divine Crusader - since these two offer some DPS while increasing charisma.
Divine Crusader = +6cha
Fatesinger= +8cha (divine echo, glitter, cha, can boost another +4 on turn the tide)

POSSIBLE TWISTS
Cacoon
Soundburst
Legendary Dreadnaught Haste Boost
Momentum Swing/Lay Waste
Magister +3 enchant DC

NOTABLE CHA GEAR
+11 Charisma Item
+3 insightful
+1 exceptional
+1 litany

Max Sustainable CHA:
18 base
07 levels
05 tome
01 PDK enhance
04 SS and WC enh.
02 Master of L&D
06 Fatesinger Cha
01 Fatesinger Divine Echo
01 Fatesinger Glitter of Fame
11 Cha Item
03 Insight Item
01 Exceptional Item
01 Litany
02 Yugo
02 Inspire excellence
02 guild ship=
sustainable 67 in Fatesinger 65 in Divine Crusader
can boost +74 (Fatesinger) +72 (Divine Crusader)

Working on a 67 = +28 charisma bonus

Soundburst DC of:
10 base + 28 levels + 28 charisma = 66

Hoping 66 is high enough to get at least 50% on tougher epic elites?

General Enchant DC:

10 base
06 Heighened spell
01 Marigold
02 Prodigy
06 item
01 spellsong
02 augment
28 charisma bonus
-----------
56 Ball/Hold for back up
Can get to a 62 if running in Exalted Angel and twisting Magister

Can boost those Hold and Soundburst DCs using Turn the Tide and Action Boosts for another 1-4 DC.

Comments?

stoerm
04-24-2014, 05:55 AM
I was thinking of TRing to something along these lines once my horc bard hits 20. Bookmarked.

BoBoDaClown
04-24-2014, 06:18 AM
I was thinking of TRing to something along these lines once my horc bard hits 20. Bookmarked.

Cool. Please feedback on how it goes; I won't be making one for awhile. I'm curious as to whether it is EE viable.

Cheers

avepepix
04-24-2014, 10:22 AM
The only thing I dont like its the gathering cold path, I dont see many usses there

smckelv
04-24-2014, 10:30 AM
It's very good. I have an 16 bard with fighter and rogue splashes. This build would be stronger CC (tho not EE DC yet). Also, the PDK looks like a nice way to get CHA to hit/attack over Divine Might. Your build then allows level ups in CHA instead of STR which helps with DC.

Personally, I don't count on Otto's Sphere at all with my current 35dc. But Otto's Irresistable against single EE targets is very nice and has no save. Enthrallment/Fascinate is also much more powerful in the game than the current culture of zergers seem to be able to appreciate.

I have however become addicted to the haste boost from fighter splash. Also, rogue evasion is nice even with a mediocre save up to EH difficulty. But I would give all that up for Heal spell and better DC with a build that used CHA to attack bonuses.

Nice feat choice OP.

unbongwah
04-24-2014, 10:59 AM
Random thoughts:

Do Evocation DC bonuses apply to ED SLAs? If so, it'd be worth picking up SF:Evo + DC Twists from Magister / Draconic while in DC, IMHO. Alternatively, SF:Enchant + Enchant DC Twist for +4 DCs on disco balls; that's more than Heighten gives you.
No racial heal amp? :(
For the more stat- or tome-challenged, I'd recommend dropping OC, which lets you start with lower STR. I've considered a similar build which also skips the THF chain for more metamagics and/or Spell Pen.
Power Atk has to be taken before Cleave & GC.
Going CHA-based opens up several ED caster DPS options, inc. Energy Burst. Don't pigeon-hole yourself into thinking it's just good for Soundburst. :)

cru121
04-24-2014, 11:58 AM
Do Evocation DC bonuses apply to ED SLAs? - NO :(

BoBoDaClown
04-24-2014, 08:00 PM
The only thing I dont like its the gathering cold path, I dont see many usses there
Yeah. Not particularly important; could easily be switched out

Personally, I don't count on Otto's Sphere at all with my current 35dc. But Otto's Irresistable against single EE targets is very nice and has no save. Enthrallment/Fascinate is also much more powerful in the game than the current culture of zergers seem to be able to appreciate.
More seeing Soundburst SLA as primary CC
I have however become addicted to the haste boost from fighter splash. Also, rogue evasion is nice even with a mediocre save up to EH difficulty. But I would give all that up for Heal spell and better DC with a build that used CHA to attack bonuses.

Nice feat choice OP.


Random thoughts:

Do Evocation DC bonuses apply to ED SLAs? If so, it'd be worth picking up SF:Evo + DC Twists from Magister / Draconic while in DC, IMHO. Alternatively, SF:Enchant + Enchant DC Twist for +4 DCs on disco balls; that's more than Heighten gives you.
No, they don't. I forgot SF is required for that twist; certainly makes it morevaluable than Heighten. Will update OP
No racial heal amp? :(
Probably should take first rank. I find my heals hit hard already with loads of positve SP and 30% Hamp For the more stat- or tome-challenged, I'd recommend dropping OC, which lets you start with lower STR. I've considered a similar build which also skips the THF chain for more metamagics and/or Spell Pen.
Power Atk has to be taken before Cleave & GC.
The feats aren't in order. Going CHA-based opens up several ED caster DPS options, inc. Energy Burst. Don't pigeon-hole yourself into thinking it's just good for Soundburst. :)
Yeah, be worth experimenting. Thanks for the detailed feedback.

New Pre may be of use. Once that solidifies I'll eTR into one of these.

Requiem_83
04-27-2014, 08:27 AM
I ran a pdk charisma based melee bard for about 6 months... It was pretty good in EH all the way up, but his dps wasn't enough to be relevant in EE. I found that it was just to feat starved to take the necessary feats to make his Enchant DCs reliable and the necessary self sustaining and melee feats.

Not a horrible build, however I have had better experience running a str based melee bard that CCed through songs reliably in EE, had great self healing, and strong Melee DPS. Just my .02 cents... Happy Bard'ing.

Spoonwelder
04-27-2014, 10:24 AM
I ran a pdk charisma based melee bard for about 6 months... It was pretty good in EH all the way up, but his dps wasn't enough to be relevant in EE. I found that it was just to feat starved to take the necessary feats to make his Enchant DCs reliable and the necessary self sustaining and melee feats.

Not a horrible build, however I have had better experience running a str based melee bard that CCed through songs reliably in EE, had great self healing, and strong Melee DPS. Just my .02 cents... Happy Bard'ing.
I am having a similar experience - 15/3/2 Bard/Rog/Fi -Str. based Pick wielder - I mostly run in LD and only use songs for CC in a pinch - don't need much CC when you are critting for 2k (on an undergeared L22 ie. still using deathnips)

I was in Fatesinger to cap it and was so underwhelmed by Turn the Tide that as soon as I capped I dropped the line. Reign was ok but the rest of the tree is mediocre at best. I would consider staying in it if Turn the Tide worked on red/orange named AND the cooldown was lower (3min maybe).

As it is I can churn through content soloing on eH in LD so why bother with fatesinger. As a side note my Enthrall DC is about 65 with only very basic investment. I could get it to EE levels with a bit of investment in Cha gear and/or skill tome.

BoBoDaClown
04-28-2014, 04:47 PM
I ran a pdk charisma based melee bard for about 6 months... It was pretty good in EH all the way up, but his dps wasn't enough to be relevant in EE. I found that it was just to feat starved to take the necessary feats to make his Enchant DCs reliable and the necessary self sustaining and melee feats.

It doesn't sound like the same build? I'm not convinced this character will be EE viable, but it leverages CC through Exalted Angel Soundburst, not enchants, which means it also gains all the melee feats. So did you have a mid 60s charisma, the THF feats, and Overwhelming Crit? The reason I ask is because then I can make a direct comparison to what you are asking.


I am having a similar experience - 15/3/2 Bard/Rog/Fi -Str. based Pick wielder - I mostly run in LD and only use songs for CC in a pinch - don't need much CC when you are critting for 2k (on an undergeared L22 ie. still using deathnips)


Quite a different build; a good one to be sure, but different than the one posted

Requiem_83
04-28-2014, 05:53 PM
My apologies... Not the same build after a closer read. I ran a 16 bard/2 rogue/2 fighter. My charisma before I tred was in the high 50s, and in retrospect I could have spent more feats into the CC.

Spoonwelder
05-02-2014, 09:42 AM
It doesn't sound like the same build? I'm not convinced this character will be EE viable, but it leverages CC through Exalted Angel Soundburst, not enchants, which means it also gains all the melee feats. So did you have a mid 60s charisma, the THF feats, and Overwhelming Crit? The reason I ask is because then I can make a direct comparison to what you are asking.



Quite a different build; a good one to be sure, but different than the one posted
My point was more that bard songs were more than enough CC - the only benefit of soundburst is the helpless state but that is only 6 seconds and when you need alot of CC you are going to use your songs. Also w/r/t soundburst it's a fort save.....so it is still good to have for the casters at the back but isn't likely to land on the goons up front on EE unless you invest alot in Evocation saves which really aren't a bards strength.

BoBoDaClown
05-02-2014, 04:47 PM
My point was more that bard songs were more than enough CC - the only benefit of soundburst is the helpless state but that is only 6 seconds and when you need alot of CC you are going to use your songs. Also w/r/t soundburst it's a fort save.....so it is still good to have for the casters at the back but isn't likely to land on the goons up front on EE unless you invest alot in Evocation saves which really aren't a bards strength.

This isn't Soundburst the bard spell; it is soundburst from Exalted Angel tree, so you don't do anything for it other than pump charisma. You can spam it every 6 seconds for 3 sp. On this build the DC will be around 68, which may be a little short, and what I want feedback on.

I disagree that bard songs are 'more than enough CC'; my main is a CC/Healer bard who trivializes content through spamming Holds and Soundbursts. I do use enthrall as well, and it is certainly good, but really it's the best for people who haven't hit DC marks; spells are better, because they don't break, can be spammed, AOE immobalise, helpless etc.

Wipey
05-02-2014, 04:58 PM
Why not have both ?
If you can keep 59 Enchant with Magister twist, that would serve you very well everywhere, GH, High Road, Stormhorns except assassins.
Not no fail, but very reliable.

68 (I think it would be actually 66, 28 character levels ?) will get 3/4 stuff except heavy melees anywhere, and useless in Stormhorns.

I would think that having both options would be better than Momentum/LW ( which are not that great anyway twisted ) small dps gain, on a Bard that is.

The best would be if you could keep those DCs in Fury ( Adrenaline + OID for even more CC ) :)

BoBoDaClown
05-02-2014, 05:31 PM
Why not have both ?
If you can keep 59 Enchant with Magister twist, that would serve you very well everywhere, GH, High Road, Stormhorns except assassins.
Not no fail, but very reliable.
Yeah definitely part of my thinking process- this is a theory build atm; once I have built it I will experiment with the twists.
68 (I think it would be actually 66, 28 character levels ?) will get 3/4 stuff except heavy melees anywhere, and useless in Stormhorns.
This is valuable feedback; if SB is valueless in Storm Horns, I personally probably wouldn't bother (already have an array of bards), but I do think it would still be a nice, fun character for someone who wants 'One' Bard. Nice catch on the SB levels. Will edit OP.

I would think that having both options would be better than Momentum/LW ( which are not that great anyway twisted ) small dps gain, on a Bard that is.
Good Feedback

The best would be if you could keep those DCs in Fury ( Adrenaline + OID for even more CC ) :) Unfortunately not possible. This type of build is pigeon=holed into Divine Crusader or Fatesinger really

Great Feedback. Thank you.

I'm actually looking at how the swashbuckler PRE turns out, and may post a revised version of this.

The swashbuckler PRE looks like it may allow for cha to damage, in which case the build could be Drow, and eke out higher charisma for slightly better DCs. Will see.

giftie
05-18-2014, 12:13 PM
Sorry about the semi-necro (but forum isn't exactly bursting with activity anyway):

Anyway, I found this build quite interesting. I run a pure PDK spellsinger, but couldn't find room for both the THF and Cleave lines (but I notice you couldn't, either ;) so I opted for the former. I could LR into this, but not sure if the damage increase would justify the DC loss. With a Thunder Forged +7 Enchant greatsword, I can reach quite decent DCs as it is - I expect to hit 65 without pots, litany or even a +11 item at cap.

I'd strongly consider going EA over FS. +8 CHA (just like Fatesinger), +3 DCs (and +3 spell pen but -4 caster levels), and access to all three SLAs (and wings!). Fewer songs and less duration, but good enough. Divine Crusader is an entirely different beast, though.

I expect to move on to Celestia, TF Orb and SWF line once Swashbuckler lands. I think PDK will still be a strong choice for pure bard - the extra feat essentially makes up for the lower starting CHA, and I figure APs will be too tight to fully utilize drow racials anyway.