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Merlin-ator
04-16-2014, 10:17 AM
General Arcane Archer help wanted for my second life. I rarely expect to pick up a sword. What split should I use? What bows are good for leveling? Feats? I've heard of AAs being able to solo/very-shortman some of the lesser-run raids (my biggest concern being Master Artificer), is that going to be possible on this build? Can a second lifer do anything like that, or do you need to be 3+? If I get most of my archer feats free, what is my minimum Dex? Is there something I can take to apply Dex to damage, or is Bow Strength the closest I can get?

unbongwah
04-16-2014, 10:55 AM
If I get most of my archer feats, what is my minimum Dex? Is there something I can take to apply Dex to damage, or is Bow Strength the closest I can get?
You need base DEX 21 for Combat Archery; although if you plan to TR again as soon as you hit lvl 20, you only need DEX 19 for Improved Precise Shot. Currently the only way to add DEX to longbow dmg is Elven Grace; otherwise you'll need Bow STR.

If you want a full-time archer, you want some flavor of monkcher: i.e., at least monk 6 for 10K Stars (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ten_Thousand_Stars) which works w/bows (also need Zen Archery). Alternate between 10K and Manyshot to amp your burst DPS; while both are on cooldown, you can keep plinking away w/arrows, switch to melee, pike, whatever. Historically, most monkcher builds go WIS-based to max out their proc chances from 10K; it also boosts your Stunning Fist DCs, should you choose to add unarmed melee as well. STR is still important, though, presuming you have Bow STR.

Rgr has obvious synergies with a monkcher: free ranged feats, access to AA tree if you don't want to play a HE or elf, DWS boosts PBS range and adds sneak atk (which stacks w/Ninja SA if you take it).

Merlin-ator
04-16-2014, 12:48 PM
The wiki says that Manyshot and 10K stars share cooldown, is this accurate?

Grailhawk
04-16-2014, 12:52 PM
The wiki says that Manyshot and 10K stars share cooldown, is this accurate?

You can not activate the two abilities at the same time, but they do not "share a cooldown".

unbongwah
04-16-2014, 03:11 PM
The wiki says that Manyshot and 10K stars share cooldown, is this accurate?
Sorta: when you activate Manyshot, it also activates the cooldown on 10K; previously the CDs were independent, IIRC. This means when MS wears off, you still have to wait for 10K CD to finish.

MangLord
04-18-2014, 04:37 AM
I'm currently leveling a lvl 24 pure DEX based elven ranger in Fury destiny and I have no complaints. I'd actually recommend it over monk levels. My evasion almost always works, I do great damage, and I have all the benefits of a pure ranger. This is my second ranger life, with no epic past life feats.

I'm specialized in the AA tree, but Deepwood Sniper Shot pays dividends for me with the damage and short cooldown.

With all my various enhancement bonuses, my doubleshot percentage is 28% without any bow bonuses. Granted, when I hit manyshot this all goes away for a minute, but it is satisfying regularly hitting two 3000-5000pt fury+slayer hits for the price of one (when not on manyshot cooldown). I'd say it's slightly less than 10k stars with a high WIS build, but with the benefit of being a passive bonus I don't have to worry about and have through 80% of the quest. You'd be surprised at how much a 28% doubleshot adds up. I'd rather have 75% of a 10kStars bonus through all the quest than a couple extra hits for a short time. I haven't crunched the numbers.

With Whisperchain light armor, I have a 43% miss chance without displacement scrolls. EE is very tricky when my adrenaline goes to 0, but if you have a competent party you can be tactical about it. Save the big money arrows for the casters and plinkjump through the rest of the trash that wants to kill you, assuming everyone in your PUG party is doing the same. With my Thursday night group, I kinda consider myself the sniper of the party, picking off the most dangerous opponents quickly and allowing the tanks and healers to do their job without worrying about spellcasters gumming up the works. I don't consider myself the entire party, because the tank draws the aggro I need to be effective. I can back up the healer by cocooning our tank, and everyone is having a good time. It makes for a good night of play.

I have one melee weapon set that I haven't used ever in a party since hitting level 20. Its hard to justify using when my bow has so many advantages. I usually just jump out of the way towards the tank and continue to thin out his/her opponents. If I'm alone, snipershot bluff and Stay Frosty gives me time to back away.

The caveat to all this is that if i want to solo something, the quest becomes a cycle of kite and jump. I can usually survive it having cocoon twisted in, but it gets boring after a couple mobs. Gianthold boss fights are a study in persistence on EH. You're never in danger, but you have to whittle away at boss hp while wishing you could grab another pretzel. I don't feel confident soloing EE, but i believe it can be done with my character.

EE is a whole different animal, but a pure ranger in Fury has no trouble at all on EH. I usually just ask my party to put voices on and kill the boss when they're ready. Damage boost+Debilitating Arrow+Precise Shot+Adrenaline+Manyshot+ Slayer does a LOT of damage. If I don't kill it outright, then their health makes a huge nosedive and they finish the job. I feel odd that people have started to ask me to furyshot when things get hairy, given how crummy rangers used to be.

Ivan_Milic
04-18-2014, 05:09 PM
General Arcane Archer help wanted for my second life. I rarely expect to pick up a sword. What split should I use? What bows are good for leveling? Feats? I've heard of AAs being able to solo/very-shortman some of the lesser-run raids (my biggest concern being Master Artificer), is that going to be possible on this build? Can a second lifer do anything like that, or do you need to be 3+? If I get most of my archer feats free, what is my minimum Dex? Is there something I can take to apply Dex to damage, or is Bow Strength the closest I can get?

To solo raids you need great gear and you need to know the raid front to back.

Ivan_Milic
04-18-2014, 05:15 PM
The wiki says that Manyshot and 10K stars share cooldown, is this accurate?

When you active 10k/manyshot, they both go on cd, but 10k has 1m cd, manyshot 2 min.

00zau
04-18-2014, 10:10 PM
This seems as good a place as any. I've got a couple questions about some archer enhancements. Currently playing an elf AA. How does the elf enhancement Grace stack with Bow Strength? Which AA attack skills are worth speccing, and which should I do first? I currently have shattermantle on because it has the lowest SP cost, making it more spammable for DPS. Does Inferno shot do an AoE or something, because as is, it seems much worse than the other two low level attack skills, with the highest point cost of the three and doing 1[W] less damage.

toaftoaf
04-18-2014, 11:11 PM
10k stars first, the manyshot, repeat, the cooldowns abit shorter

Munkenmo
04-18-2014, 11:42 PM
Sorta: when you activate Manyshot, it also activates the cooldown on 10K; previously the CDs were independent, IIRC. This means when MS wears off, you still have to wait for 10K CD to finish.

The cooldowns have always operated the same way they do now, the wiki is a bit ambiguous, but I don't really know how to phrase it better.


10k stars first, the manyshot, repeat, the cooldowns abit shorter
Not quite true.

10k stars, manyshot, 10k stars, Repeat.

To maximise dps make sure to squeeze in 2 rounds of 10k stars between manyshots.

Munkenmo
04-18-2014, 11:49 PM
This seems as good a place as any. I've got a couple questions about some archer enhancements. Currently playing an elf AA. How does the elf enhancement Grace stack with Bow Strength? Which AA attack skills are worth speccing, and which should I do first? I currently have shattermantle on because it has the lowest SP cost, making it more spammable for DPS. Does Inferno shot do an AoE or something, because as is, it seems much worse than the other two low level attack skills, with the highest point cost of the three and doing 1[W] less damage.

first for a basic idea of a build, have a look here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken) (it's outdated I've not changed my gear in a while)

Regarding inferno shot vs force or elemental shots.

Inferno shot is a clicky, every time you click it you can use it, force and elemental weapons are a toggle, turn one toggle on the other switches off. But you can have a toggle turned on and use inferno at the same time.

Grace doesn't stack with bow str, you'll use either your dex or your str to determine which is applied for damage, the higher one overwrites the other.
I'm not certain Grace actually overwrites bow str, last time I checked enhancements that should allow dex for bow damage were completely overridden by the bow strength feat, regardless of dex vs str scores.

00zau
04-19-2014, 02:38 AM
first for a basic idea of a build, have a look here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/311770-Rangenmo-a-monk-without-a-shuriken) (it's outdated I've not changed my gear in a while)

Regarding inferno shot vs force or elemental shots.

Inferno shot is a clicky, every time you click it you can use it, force and elemental weapons are a toggle, turn one toggle on the other switches off. But you can have a toggle turned on and use inferno at the same time.

Grace doesn't stack with bow str, you'll use either your dex or your str to determine which is applied for damage, the higher one overwrites the other.
I'm not certain Grace actually overwrites bow str, last time I checked enhancements that should allow dex for bow damage were completely overridden by the bow strength feat, regardless of dex vs str scores.

I was actually asking about inferno shot as compared to shattermantle or dispelling shot. They both cost less SP and do +1[W] damage at a given rank, which seems better to me than a couple points of fire DoT.

I didn't think grace stacked with bow strength, just wanted to see if I could dump STR once I'm high enough level. Looks like not, though. I wonder if you can add dex to damage for bows without having bow STR at all.

Garix
04-19-2014, 04:22 AM
I was actually asking about inferno shot as compared to shattermantle or dispelling shot. They both cost less SP and do +1[W] damage at a given rank, which seems better to me than a couple points of fire DoT.

I didn't think grace stacked with bow strength, just wanted to see if I could dump STR once I'm high enough level. Looks like not, though. I wonder if you can add dex to damage for bows without having bow STR at all.

Grace has been working perfectly well on my AA for some time. My solo AA has been using it for the past two lives without issue (at least not any issue I noticed). I tend to dump points in the AA tree until I have enough AP's to qualify for Grace and then respec. Then start rebuilding on the AA side of things.

unbongwah
04-19-2014, 12:59 PM
How does the elf enhancement Grace stack with Bow Strength?
It doesn't: Grace replaces Bow STR if your DEX is higher than your STR. It's currently the only way of using DEX as your dmg stat with bows, AFAIK. [I don't understand why there isn't a DEX-to-bow-dmg enh in AA or DWS like there is for melee DPS in Tempest, but there you go.]

I'm not certain Grace actually overwrites bow str, last time I checked enhancements that should allow dex for bow damage were completely overridden by the bow strength feat, regardless of dex vs str scores.
IIRC, the issue was with the Ninja PrE: Advanced Ninja training ("use your Dexterity modifier for damage with piercing and slashing" weapons while centered) overrode Bow STR on a centered monkcher, even if your STR was higher. They've since "fixed" Ninja so it only applies to melee weapons + shurikens; good if your monkcher was relying on Bow STR, bad if you were making a non-elven DEX-based monkcher who was relying on Ninja DEX-to-dmg for ranged DPS.

Munkenmo
04-19-2014, 01:45 PM
IIRC, the issue was with the Ninja PrE: Advanced Ninja training ("use your Dexterity modifier for damage with piercing and slashing" weapons while centered) overrode Bow STR on a centered monkcher, even if your STR was higher.

I was accutely aware of that issue, :( and the bandaid, which fortunately works for me.

I wasnt certain if grace worked the same way as ninja spy now. You answeed that though, thankyou.

Does grace overide str completely even if your str > dex?

unbongwah
04-19-2014, 01:51 PM
Does grace overide str completely even if your str > dex?
Dunno, never tested it. But if your STR is higher than DEX, why would you take Grace in the first place? The problem for STR-based monkchers before they fixed Ninja is you had to take Advanced Ninja Training if you wanted the higher-lvl core enhs, which caused DEX to override Bow STR. But if you're playing an elven AA, Grace is completely optional; leave it out if you're going STR-based.

Munkenmo
04-19-2014, 02:13 PM
Dunno, never tested it. But if your STR is higher than DEX, why would you take Grace in the first place? The problem for STR-based monkchers before they fixed Ninja is you had to take Advanced Ninja Training if you wanted the higher-lvl core enhs, which caused DEX to override Bow STR. But if you're playing an elven AA, Grace is completely optional; leave it out if you're going STR-based.

Like I said before, I was accutely aware of the issues with ninja spy.

Im interested in outlier situations like when external buffs push str higher than dex, or when debuffs eat into your dex till str is higher.

Ive never picked up grace, my monkcher was always str based, and now is no longer an elf so I cant test for myself.

Wipey
04-19-2014, 02:48 PM
Hi Mo, it probably does mess up bow damage like old monk core did.
Picked Grace for testing purposes.
Melee (rapiers) are fine and it displays dmg mod ( STR,DEX ) correctly at least in weapon examine.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7060/13916354242_b08866d83b_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/115481584@N04/13916354242/)

Munkenmo
04-19-2014, 03:08 PM
Legend.

Thanks man.

Badmash
08-04-2014, 08:09 AM
I was actually asking about inferno shot as compared to shattermantle or dispelling shot. They both cost less SP and do +1[W] damage at a given rank, which seems better to me than a couple points of fire DoT.

I didn't think grace stacked with bow strength, just wanted to see if I could dump STR once I'm high enough level. Looks like not, though. I wonder if you can add dex to damage for bows without having bow STR at all.

I've had good mileage out of using both inferno and dispelling shot and alternating between the two. Personally I favour dispelling shot over shattermantle because I consider it more widely useful - you face far, far more magic-users than magic-resisters. That said, I'd still use dispelling shot on mobs that had no buffs simply for a few extra dmg dice, but my build had spell points to spare.

On the spell point front, getting all the Energy of the Wild enhancements will give you the Magical Training feat, and hence Echoes of Power, which should give just enough top-up spell points to get off another shot even when running on empty. Combining this with the Soul Magic enhancement will make things much easier.