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painkiller3
04-13-2014, 06:24 PM
Let's say I lost my mind and wanted to make a sword and board tank, what sort of gear should I've looking for beyond a PLIS and a jeweled cloak?

Krelar
04-13-2014, 07:17 PM
Let's say I lost my mind and wanted to make a sword and board tank, what sort of gear should I've looking for beyond a PLIS and a jeweled cloak?

A +x lesser heart of wood to respec once you get your mind back? ;)


On a more serious note would you be going pure or splashing a few levels for something like evasion?

If your going for evasion you'll probably want to stick to large shields. (A bit less AC and PRR but higher dodge cap)
Otherwise tower shields. Madstone Aegis from Fall of Truth or The Purple dragon Shield from Haunted Halls can be nice depending on what other gear you have available.

Whatever the best dwarven axe or bastard sword you can find is. Thunderholme weapons would likely be idea eventually. Nightmare, while not as good as it used to be, can still be nice if you have high healing amp.

As much healing amp as you can squeeze in. You want to make it easy on the person healing you (Even if that person is yourself)

Nightmanis
04-13-2014, 08:58 PM
Let me see here....

Weapon wise, there's about 4 options I would strongly work toward.

Nightmare is the normal Go-to when it comes to S&B style builds, even if the nerf to the woowoo really took it's effectiveness down a couple notches. It's still helpful though, and it still will hit enemies with neg levels quite often.
Another option is surprisingly Celestia. It works exactly like a bastard sword (ignore that it says short sword for this bit) in that it gives glancing blows when using a shield. Combine this with it's innate DR breaking abilities and the multiple AOE effects it retains, it's actually a really effective offensive weapon. The only problem I've found with it is the lack of a red slot to put any kind of Spellpower on.
For an oldie but goody, for a raw dps weapon there's always the option of the Duergar Dwarven Waraxe. With an extended crit range and being able to use Headman's chop this is actually a fairly good dps weapon even into later game. Plus it's an amazing ETR design with it's ML21.
Finally the best weapon for a S&B build is most likely going to be a Thunderforged Bastard Sword. 1st Degree burns to add vulnerability, Dragon's edge and probably either Draconic Invigoration or another high dps effect will make tanking a bit less tedious on resources.


For shields, it gets a bit more creative.

Offensive wise, there's really not much better than the PDK shield. It has a decent base damage, add's shield bashing for a max total of 55% chance, and has superior vorpal for taking out smaller opponents. The extra 2 +10 stats and the purple slot when upgraded only add to the appeal.
Second of course would be the Madstone Aegis. Grants tower shield proficiency, and has shield bashing while also having a good base damage. Sadly it only comes with a blue slot and it's only real offensive ability is the shield bashing.
Despite being hard to acquire since no one seems to run that raid, the Alchemical shields will still hold their own. First tier air, second tier either Earth or Fire. There's not much reason to use tier 2 air with all the larger bonuses to doublestrike %. A big benefit here is you can make these in Heavy shield form, which allows for an unlimited max dex bonus. I would suggest Earth tier 2, since disintegration is untyped damage.
Final place goes to the Dethek Runestone (when it's fixed) and the Wall of Wood are roughly on the same level of usefulness. Giving bonuses to healing (if you don't become a toaster tank) makes both of these relatively the same. It's a better idea to use the EH WoW because of the 20% heal amp which pairs nicely with the PDK gloves.


A big suggestion toward how you set up your build. If you don't spec for evasion, don't give up on dodge. Light armour and a heavy shield gives the overall best defensive benefit. If you decide to go for the PDK shield and not use evasion, there's no reason to not use Heavy armour. You've already thrown dodge and evasion out the window, so it's best just to go for DR/PRR/AC, despite what the rest of the forums might tell you.

Using a tower shield, make sure to have evasion.
Not going to have evasion, light armour and a heavy shield.
Not going to have evasion and want to use a tower shield, wear heavy armour.

For Armours, the only suggestion I have is use the Black armour for evasion, the shadowplate with heavy armour (and shadow guardian for more DR). That's about all there is to it.

painkiller3
04-14-2014, 06:36 AM
re : evasion I don't really know...is it even possible to have enough stat points to make that work? do you just give yourself 14 str, dex, con, cha and whatever int you have left over for skills?

unbongwah
04-14-2014, 10:04 AM
See my Sacred Defender & Dwarven Defender threads; there's some discussion of gear in both.

Enoach
04-14-2014, 11:00 AM
On the Shield side for End Game I like the Purple Dragon Shield...

When upgraded has a Red Slot and becomes a good place to put a Red Devotion Ruby (currently I have a 114 Spell Power version in that slot)

I agree with comments made about even without evasion don't give up dodge. Review your enhancements available to you and determine how much you can afford and choose the Armor/Shield Type based on what you can get using DEX mod and enhancements. Next, don't have one layout of Armor/Shield.

As a tank you need to be as flexible as possible to widen your ability to fill the role. In a heavy melee (non-evasion damage) Tank Role a tower shield and heavy armor might serve you well. However, if dealing with large amounts of elemental damage or spells than you might be better served using Light Armor and Shield especially for a build that utilizes Evasion. For those without evasion it is still possible to get evasion through the use of Shadowdancer ED but you will need to twist in DPS features, but the use of shadow charges will gain you incorporeal (frees gear slot) and more Dodge (Expand beyond your current dodge gear limit or free gear slot) which you can carry into the boss fight

Pick your weapon based on your feat availability and play style preference. Using the Dwarven Axe/Bastard Sword in conjunction with Two Handed Fighting feats is a good combination. If not able to afford the Exotic weapon and THF feats look towards other Martial weapons - Khopesh (1 Exotic Feat), Scimitar (same crit range as Khopesh 1 less multiplier) or even Longsword (Long list of named weapons)

The scimitar and longsword are admittedly less DPS then their other options so investing in Shield Mastery feats will help boost Double Strike. Also consider Improved Shield bash which works with Shields that have Shield bash abilities. If you are doing less damage the goal is to hit more often.

The next thing is to work in gear/weapons/shields that have effects similar to having the feats themselves. Dun-Robar Rings have a chance to apply their effect, Weapons with freezing/helpless effects help in both mitigating trash damage as well as adding a boost to DPS for helpless.

Also recommend UMD gear to utilize buffs - Masters Touch (if not Tower Shield proficient good way to save a feat), Fireshield, Tenser's, Shield/Nightshield, Blur, Displacement (30 seconds doesn't seem long but if used in conjunction with Displacement clickies can save your rear on Trash tanking) and even Artificer low level weapons buffs (low level scroll, but when you don't have anyone that can cast a weapon buff any weapon buff is more DPS), and Elemental Protections (a buffer for incoming elemental damage)



For a paladin tank I recommend the following EDs as possible options:

DPS - Divine Crusader (Truly excels at Evil Outsiders/Undead) and Legendary Dreadnaught for Trash killing and lots of DPS through Blitz if Blitzing timed right for boss fights
Defensive - Unyielding Sentinel and Exalted Angel and Shadowdancer (Evasion tanking role)

Others I've found useful to be in for different situations:

Fatesinger - good when competing with party members as song buffs and Turn the Tide and Reign are good supplemental buffs for personal DPS
Primal Avatar - Innate abilities like Mighty among Spirits can be used to boost CON/STR/DEX as well as Primal Travel granting 50% dodge (exceeds cap) even for 12 seconds can be a good way to avoid lots of incoming physical damage. It also has a couple passive party weapons buffs from Summer Smoke and Chill of Winter as well as a potential party healing option from Fall harvest (harvest is not as useful if not doing lots of trash killing but tanking is not always one-on-one).
Fury of the Wild - The only issue hear is using Adrenaline as it is a rage effect. However, missed in many reviews is the Fury made Placid which does not regen Adrenaline but does do a heal and gives a 3+ minute guard which can paralyze attackers (20% chance). Also when Unbridled fury charge is ready it is simple to drop Defensive stance grab a two hander (as you get the benefits of having all the THF feats) and go all out on trash.

eachna_gislin
05-01-2014, 11:41 AM
Just a general question since I'm interested in this topic.

With multiple suggestions of slotting Devotion in an augment...I'm curious what well-dressed paladin Tanks "ought" to be wearing in their trinket slots?

I ask because I use a Shamanic Fetish (eHard for now, hoping for eElite) in mine which gives Devotion +114, Radiance +114 and a yellow slot, and I'm wondering what would be better put there?

Zoda
05-02-2014, 09:52 PM
Take 3 (or more) fvs levels for Shield of Condemnation, and use Celestia (it acts as bastard sword if you have the proficiency and use it with a shield). Shield of Condemnation gives you 50% more damage (since Celestia deals light damage) and also debuffs fort by 50%. Possibly play in Exalted Angel to get all kinds of light damage nukesa with full CHA and Divine Might to retain melee ability, also nice selfheal.

Have a B plan for when you are not taking, for example another toon.

Nightmanis
05-03-2014, 03:52 AM
Take 3 (or more) fvs levels for Shield of Condemnation, and use Celestia (it acts as bastard sword if you have the proficiency and use it with a shield). Shield of Condemnation gives you 50% more damage (since Celestia deals light damage) and also debuffs fort by 50%. Possibly play in Exalted Angel to get all kinds of light damage nukesa with full CHA and Divine Might to retain melee ability, also nice selfheal.

Have a B plan for when you are not taking, for example another toon.

I would do something like this if my ap wasn't spread so thin as is. 21pts in Kensai for power surge, 36 in stalwart for block and cut and con. I went with cleric only because wand and scroll mastery is tier one vs tier 4 in fvs.