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CThruTheEgo
03-30-2014, 01:41 PM
EDIT: U23 has largely solved the problem of gearing an artificer. Because of this, the options below are essentially outdated. Check out Dubbell O'Seven (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer) for a U23 gear set and build.




So I've been considering how to optimize Dubbell O'Seven (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer) for the current endgame and am having difficulty finding the balance. There's a lot to consider and these are issues that affect all artis so, at the suggestion of a friend, I decided to start a separate thread about it. Here is what I am currently seeing with optimizing a pure arti for EE.

Artificers need to boost 2 types of spell power: force (since it affects all relevant arti spells and possibly the rune arm if you're using Archaic Device) and 1 element for energy burst (and the rune arm if you're going with acid). Energy burst is extremely powerful and not using this is simply not an option for me. Formerly, I didn't mind not having a source of force spell power other than potency because there was little difference between the 80 potency on Bluescale armor and the 114 you could slot (when the level cap was 25). But 80 potency is way behind the 138 you can slot now or the 150 available from Thunder Forged crafted and lootgen weapons.

So how to fit in both force and elemental spell power is the central problem. Crafting a Thunder Forged repeater with 150 spell power means gimping ranged dps and is not an option as far as I am concerned. You only get one red slot on the repeater (whether you're using Needle or a Thunder Forged repeater), which means only one type of spell power. After searching for accessories (not weapons or shields) with elemental spell power or a red slot, the only two I have found that are worth considering are Corruption of Nature with 114 acid spell power and Iron Beads with 120 electric and 16% electric lore. Some older epic items and Cannith Challenge items have 90 elemental spell power, but that's barely an improvement from the 80 on Bluescale armor.

Going electric specced has the added advantage of an extra 4% lore from the arcanotechnician tree. But Iron Beads competes with the Sage's Locket, which means losing 5 DCs (which I don't see any other way to slot evocation focus) and needing to slot 15 spellcraft somewhere else.

Regarding rune arms: I would still say the acid and force rune arms are the only viable ones at endgame because of their 5 shots. Electric and ice still don't compare. There is no way to get acid lore (outside of regular spell lore, which has been totally gimped). So with the 20% kinetic lore on the Sage's Cuffs (along with the 4% force lore from arcanotechnician) and 138 force slotted in the repeater, I wonder if that would outdamage Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within with 138 acid slotted in the repeater and only 9% lore from bluescale. Same spell power for each but 15% more crits for force. I might do a brief test using lootgen items with 138 spell power to get a feel for how these options compare.

So based on the above, I'm thinking the only decent options are:

1) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Archaic Device, Iron Beads for 120 electric and 16% electric lore
2) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature for 114 acid spell power, Sage's Locket, and Epic Rock Boots for 16% acid lore
3) slot 138 acid in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within, Sage's Locket, Epic Rock Boots for 16% acid lore, and Bluescale for 80 potency (affecting force)
4) slot 138 acid in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within, Sage's Locket, Epic Rock Boots for 16% acid lore, and the Holy Symbol of Lolth for 102 force
5) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Archaic Device, Sage's Locket, and Sage's Spectacles for 132 fire and 18% fire lore

These options provide:

1) 183 force/24% lore, 165 electric/20% lore, -5 DCs -- strong rune arm, strong energy burst, strongest arti spells, gimp DCs
2) 183 force/24% lore, 159 acid/16% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm, strong energy burst, strongest arti spells
3) 125 force/24% lore, 183 acid/16% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm, strong energy burst, weak arti spells
4) 132 force/24% lore, 168 acid/16% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm, strong energy burst, weak arti spells
5) 183 force/24% lore, 177 fire/22% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm, strongest energy burst, strongest arti spells

These numbers include 15 spellcraft (assuming it is slotted if not wearing the Sage's Locket), the 15 spell power set bonus from the Blue Dragonscale set, and the 15 spell power set bonus from planar conflux. It is worth noting that options 1, 2, 4, and 5 can use either the blue scale set or the shadowscale armor/helm combo (for better ranged dps), so they have the flexibility to emphasize spell power or ranged dps, which option 3 does not because of its reliance on bluescale for the potency. Option 4 is not able to use the planar conflux set bonus. Tier 3 Greensteel accessories also offer 16% elemental lore (which would be used for acid), but the Epic Rock Boots allow for a better overall gear setup.

I think option 5 currently offers the most overall.

I have also been considering dropping the three spell focus feats to pick up the three mental toughnesses for another 3% spell crit. I'm feeling like just dumping DCs entirely on an arti and maximizing straight dps is the way to go now. A pure arti is only going to get around a 54 DC with minimal effort. That could be pushed up to around 60 with a lot of work (past lives and running in shadowdancer or draconic), but for current EEs this is still low.

So what do you all think? Are there any other items that offer at least 114 elemental spell power or a red slot that I'm missing? Anyone see other options that I'm not? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Fleshy artis have the option of EE Shadowmail with 120 force or acid spell power. That locks out both the Bluescale set (which gives another 15 spell power) and the Shadowscale armor (which boosts ranged dps a bit). It is also medium armor so eliminates the use of evasion either with a splash or from shadowdancer.

Choopak
03-30-2014, 09:06 PM
So I've been considering how to optimize Dubbell O'Seven (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/386775-Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-artificer) for the current endgame and am having difficulty finding the balance. There's a lot to consider and these are issues that affect all artis so, at the suggestion of a friend, I decided to start a separate thread about it. Here is what I am currently seeing with optimizing a pure arti for EE.

Artificers need to boost 2 types of spell power: force (since it affects all relevant arti spells and possibly the rune arm if you're using Archaic Device) and 1 element for energy burst (and the rune arm if you're going with acid). Energy burst is extremely powerful and not using this is simply not an option for me. Formerly, I didn't mind not having a source of force spell power other than potency because there was little difference between the 80 potency on Bluescale armor and the 114 you could slot (when the level cap was 25). But 80 potency is way behind the 138 you can slot now or the 150 available from Thunder Forged crafted and lootgen weapons.

So how to fit in both force and elemental spell power is the central problem. Crafting a Thunder Forged repeater with 150 spell power means gimping ranged dps and is not an option as far as I am concerned. You only get one red slot on the repeater (whether you're using Needle or a Thunder Forged repeater), which means only one type of spell power. After searching for accessories (not weapons or shields) with elemental spell power or a red slot, the only two I have found that are worth considering are Corruption of Nature with 114 acid spell power and Iron Beads with 120 electric and 16% electric lore. Some older epic items and Cannith Challenge items have 90 elemental spell power, but that's barely an improvement from the 80 on Bluescale armor.

Going electric specced has the added advantage of an extra 4% lore from the arcanotechnician tree. But Iron Beads competes with the Sage's Locket, which means losing 5 DCs (which I don't see any other way to slot evocation focus) and needing to slot 15 spellcraft somewhere else.

Regarding rune arms: I would still say the acid and force rune arms are the only viable ones at endgame because of their 5 shots. Electric and ice still don't compare. There is no way to get acid lore (outside of regular spell lore, which has been totally gimped). So with the 20% kinetic lore on the Sage's Cuffs (along with the 4% force lore from arcanotechnician) and 138 force slotted in the repeater, I wonder if that would outdamage Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within with 138 acid slotted in the repeater and only 9% lore from bluescale. Same spell power for each but 15% more crits for force. I might do a brief test using lootgen items with 138 spell power to get a feel for how these options compare.

So based on the above, I'm thinking the only decent options are:

1) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature for 114 acid spell power, Sage's Locket, and Bluescale for 9% lore
2) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Archaic Device, Iron Beads for 120 electric and 16% electric lore, and Shadowscale armor (probably with sneak attack) and Dragon Masque
3) slot 138 acid in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption Nature or Turmoil Within, Sage's Locket, and Bluescale for 80 potency (affecting force) and 9% lore

These options provide:

1) 153 force/24% lore, 129 acid/9% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm dps, good energy burst, strong arti spells
2) 138 force/24% lore, 120 electric/20% lore, -5 DCs -- assuming 15 spellcraft is slotted somewhere, strong rune arm, strong energy burst, strong art spells, gimp DCs
3) 95 force/24% lore, 153 acid/9% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm dps, strong energy burst, weak arti spells

I think I like option 2 the best but I'm not sure about gimping DCs.

I have also been considering dropping the three spell focus feats to pick up the three mental toughnesses for another 3% spell crit. I'm feeling like just dumping DCs entirely on an arti and maximizing straight dps is the way to go now. A pure arti is only going to get around a 54 DC with minimal effort. That could be pushed up to around 60 with a lot of work (past lives and running in shadowdancer or draconic), but for current EEs this is still low.

So what do you all think? Are there any other items that offer at least 114 elemental spell power or a red slot that I'm missing? Anyone see other options that I'm not? Thanks in advance.

Just wanna say thanks for putting the time to do this, been looking at Dubbell and like you answered to me: it was out dated...
Race wise? still WF or BF is an option now? I know the -2DEX is bugging, but with power of the forge, it's like having the human'S damage boost AND endless fusillade...

Satyriasys
03-30-2014, 09:27 PM
Glass Cannon has impulse 120 and while the shot is not very good, having 2 imbues makes it the single best runearm for xbow dps.

EE Shadowmail is an option with 120 spell power to an element, spell lore VI and Wizardry X

If you really need to slot lore somewhere you could make a Greensteel with major lore to whatever element you want.

Options do seem limited. Arty is in dire need of new endgame runearms. The ToR ones are quite awful making Archaic Device (level 20) the best option. Quite a sad state.

Ancient
03-30-2014, 09:27 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Rock_Boots

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 05:36 AM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Rock_Boots

Maybe you missed it in my wall of text :) but:


Some older epic items and Cannith Challenge items have 90 elemental spell power, but that's barely an improvement from the 80 on Bluescale armor.

The goal is to slot spell power comparable to the values currently available, so none of that older gear is worth considering in that regard.

EDIT: Although the Rock Boots do have 16% acid lore, which is the same that a tier3 greensteel offers. That's only 7% more than what blue scale offers and only 4% behind electric with Iron Beads and the arcanotechnician enhancements. That would mean having to keep EE Corruption of Nature for the 114 acid spell power. I'd still be interested to see how Corruption with 114 spell power and 16% lore compares to Archaic Device with 138 spell power and 24% lore. This option does allow you to keep the Sage's Locket. It's worth considering.

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 05:44 AM
Race wise? still WF or BF is an option now? I know the -2DEX is bugging, but with power of the forge, it's like having the human'S damage boost AND endless fusillade...

I still don't like bladeforged for the same two reasons I mentioned before. First, you need to spend a lot in the racial tree to really take advantage of the race and there is a lot to spend your points on in both arti trees as it is. Second, the SLA is a cheap, easy to obtain method of self healing, which is just redundant on a pure arti. Regular recon works just fine. I've rarely had problems with sp management, so I don't need anything cheaper, especially if the spell focus feats are dropped for mental toughness (and that would only be for the spell crits, not the sp).

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 05:51 AM
Glass Cannon has impulse 120 and while the shot is not very good, having 2 imbues makes it the single best runearm for xbow dps.

EE Shadowmail is an option with 120 spell power to an element, spell lore VI and Wizardry X

If you really need to slot lore somewhere you could make a Greensteel with major lore to whatever element you want.

Options do seem limited. Arty is in dire need of new endgame runearms. The ToR ones are quite awful making Archaic Device (level 20) the best option. Quite a sad state.

Glass cannon does have 120 impulse but I didn't bother mentioning it because then you gimp you're rune arm dps, which is a huge contributor to your overall dps. So I don't see that as a viable option.

I'd forgotten about the Shadowmail. That's certainly a decent option for a fleshy, but I intend to stay WF for the easy button self healing. I also forgot about the lore on greensteel and that is definitely worth considering.

And I completely agree that artis are in need of new rune arms... preferably with a red, orange, or purple slot. :)

Thanks for the suggestions Satyriasys.

Singular
03-31-2014, 11:48 AM
Glass Cannon has impulse 120 and while the shot is not very good, having 2 imbues makes it the single best runearm for xbow dps.

EE Shadowmail is an option with 120 spell power to an element, spell lore VI and Wizardry X

If you really need to slot lore somewhere you could make a Greensteel with major lore to whatever element you want.

Options do seem limited. Arty is in dire need of new endgame runearms. The ToR ones are quite awful making Archaic Device (level 20) the best option. Quite a sad state.

I'm sorry, Glass Cannon is worthless as an end game repeater, except if you are interested in breaking boxes or doing slight damage to that one elemental in Von 5. It barely does any damage whatsoever - like 500 or so per shot aoe and 120 force doesn't do much to help artie spells - which barely do damage as they are - enough. Yes, if you can hot bar it and swap it in just as you cast force spells, then swap back to an EE useful rune arm, you could use it - that, unfortunately, would gimp your force repeaters and your rune arm dps.

On pure xbow builds, that have splashed artie, then yes, Glass Cannon is good, since it provides 2 damage types. On pure artie builds, it's just not viable unless you're running EN, or EH as a support class.

To Cthru: I run with my xbow's red slot taken up by a 138 force augment and wear the 20% bracers. My Archaic Device hits for 1200-2200, BT and Ruin 3-9 k, and whatever for artie spells. Honestly, I'm thinking of turning off max/emp for tac/det and prismatic strike since I primarily use those as CC and not damage. BB is still very useful but rarely kills things before the timer wears out in EE content.

Because I'm concerned about CC, the must have for me is the Sage's Locekt (+5 Evocation, +15 spell power). I really don't see how this is an option on an artie and I certainly cannot recommend putting any other necklace on.

I apologize, I do not see Shadowmail as useful. First, you don't get a useful crit chance with it 6% is so low as to be meaningless - anyone who specializes is going to have much higher. Second, artie spells have three basic lines: electricity, force and fire. You really only need to specialize in one of those, since whichever one you use will carry over to most of your spells. Tac det uses force and fire. Prismatic strike, fire, force and sonic, and the other 2 artie CCs use electricity. So arties are basically going force or electricity, though a case could be made for fire. Specializing in acid or cold buffs only your acid rune arm damage (if you can manage to do two, though, hats off to you). Third, the dragon armors offer nice bonuses with the helmets.

Personally, I use the black dragon armor + helmet for the +2 damage and +5% rage effect. The blue is good, too, if you are trying to increase spell power (or fight electricity things). I basically stopped using it so I could focus on xbow dps. If you are using the new Thunderholme weapons, you are losing the potential damage bonus from the Prowess set - +4 - and the only way you can make that up is by wearing Black dragon armor, and that's only +2 artifact bonus.

Since you are suggesting two specializations, I'd like to suggest one more item: bracers of wind. +16% lightning lore, +90 magnetic spell power. Yes, not great and yes, it would preclude wearing the force bracers, but it's something to consider if one is going electric (and whatever) for the lore alone. In fact, a case could be made for making a pure electric specced artie who twists in electric Energy burst - give up on force completely. My guess is that this will be a favorite for melee arties, but you could probably make some of the electric rune arms worthwhile.

It is worth noting that, if you get 3 etrs for arcane, your crit chance for elemental damage types will go up by 9%. That's an amazing buff for arties! Our crit lines are only 1% per tier, which is half of what Wizards and Sorcerers get (and really, really sucks for us). So getting those past lives would almost double your crit chance without the use of any weapons - thereby making the non-force lines and rune arms much stronger. In fact, I'd suggest anyone who does that to specialize in fire or electric spell damage, though you could make a case for acid for sure.

Regarding Energy Burst: it's never been worth it on my artie. But I'm highly specialized in force. I tried it with electricity and only pulled off 2-4k damage with it. Since EB requires that I get surrounded, it was a hinderance. On the other hand, it mixes quite nicely with Primal Scream. You fire one then the other off, then your artie spells (in this case, set to max). I imagine arcanotechnitian types use it.

Thank you Cthru for this top - it's something we need to think about to keep arties as an end game class, despite the proposed changes.

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 11:59 AM
I'd forgotten about the Shadowmail. That's certainly a decent option for a fleshy, but I intend to stay WF for the easy button self healing. I also forgot about the lore on greensteel and that is definitely worth considering.

The other problem with Shadowmail is the effort required to farm out the one with the proper spell power, and not to mention that it is Medium armor and will axe the evasion you would get in Shadowdancer. Not sure if I like those two options.

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 12:13 PM
I was taking my Arti TR project through the ropes to get him to the place of being a optimum Arti as far as PL are concerned.

On my druid lives I decided to play him in epics for a bit to get an ETR to get the experience of what it was like to play a druid before I roll one up from scratch and screw it up as a first timer on a druid.

Well I have had so much fun with him as a Caster Druid I am on my 3 ETR with him as a druid and have been having a difficult time deciding if I want to make him a druid or keep on my Arti project.

This post has made me realize why I am not playing my first life arti as much any more, and an aspect of my dilemma.

I think I will just turn him into a completionist Druid until there has been a gear upgrade for the Artis.

Satyriasys
03-31-2014, 12:23 PM
I'm sorry, Glass Cannon is worthless as an end game repeater, except if you are interested in breaking boxes or doing slight damage to that one elemental in Von 5. It barely does any damage whatsoever - like 500 or so per shot aoe and 120 force doesn't do much to help artie spells - which barely do damage as they are - enough. Yes, if you can hot bar it and swap it in just as you cast force spells, then swap back to an EE useful rune arm, you could use it - that, unfortunately, would gimp your force repeaters and your rune arm dps.

On pure xbow builds, that have splashed artie, then yes, Glass Cannon is good, since it provides 2 damage types. On pure artie builds, it's just not viable unless you're running EN, or EH as a support class.



Pretty much exactly what I said. The shot is a joke but the 2 imbues are nice for your xbow. I swap it in when I am just shooting something or too far to use my runearm, also I like having impulse sp but this isn't a good source for it since the runearm doesn't benefit from the force shot =(

Arty options really are not that great no matter how you cut it.

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 12:27 PM
The other problem with Shadowmail is the effort required to farm out the one with the proper spell power, and not to mention that it is Medium armor and will axe the evasion you would get in Shadowdancer. Not sure if I like those two options.

Good points Panzermeyer. I didn't really consider the pros and cons of Shadowmail since I'm not a fleshy, but these are both worth noting.

Satyriasys
03-31-2014, 12:29 PM
It's actually not hard to farm for. You can just invis to the spider, I think I ransacked it once or twice before I got the force version. But yeah, I stopped using it awhile back. It could of been the perfect arti armor with a few tweaks.

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 01:41 PM
Thanks for the input Singular.


To Cthru: I run with my xbow's red slot taken up by a 138 force augment and wear the 20% bracers. My Archaic Device hits for 1200-2200, BT and Ruin 3-9 k, and whatever for artie spells. Honestly, I'm thinking of turning off max/emp for tac/det and prismatic strike since I primarily use those as CC and not damage. BB is still very useful but rarely kills things before the timer wears out in EE content.

I can't imagine making an arti that doesn't specialize in force. So for me, slotting 138 force in the repeater is pretty much a given. It's just a question of how to fit in a second spell power for energy burst.

I don't use maximize/empower for tactical detonation or prismatic strike. I only use those for their CC potential, not damage. Blade barrier I still find to be very useful though.


Because I'm concerned about CC, the must have for me is the Sage's Locekt (+5 Evocation, +15 spell power). I really don't see how this is an option on an artie and I certainly cannot recommend putting any other necklace on.

I don't like the idea of dumping DCs, personally, but at this point I'm willing to consider anything. I'd much rather have an effective energy burst than the minor CC capability of an arti. Sage's Locket is the only place to slot evocation focus 5 as far as I can tell. So if CC is your goal, then it is a must have item.


I apologize, I do not see Shadowmail as useful. First, you don't get a useful crit chance with it 6% is so low as to be meaningless - anyone who specializes is going to have much higher. Second, artie spells have three basic lines: electricity, force and fire. You really only need to specialize in one of those, since whichever one you use will carry over to most of your spells. Tac det uses force and fire. Prismatic strike, fire, force and sonic, and the other 2 artie CCs use electricity. So arties are basically going force or electricity, though a case could be made for fire. Specializing in acid or cold buffs only your acid rune arm damage (if you can manage to do two, though, hats off to you). Third, the dragon armors offer nice bonuses with the helmets.

I certainly don't consider Shadowmail optimal, but then again, I don't really see any of our options as optimal. I do think the other options presented in the OP are better than using Shadowmail, but it is another place to get a somewhat decent spell power (you can also get acid on it).

And the second spell power is primarily for energy burst, not the rune arm. If it were not for energy burst, I'd just go force all the way and gearing would be a lot simpler.


Personally, I use the black dragon armor + helmet for the +2 damage and +5% rage effect. The blue is good, too, if you are trying to increase spell power (or fight electricity things). I basically stopped using it so I could focus on xbow dps. If you are using the new Thunderholme weapons, you are losing the potential damage bonus from the Prowess set - +4 - and the only way you can make that up is by wearing Black dragon armor, and that's only +2 artifact bonus.

It's worth mentioning that the Shadowscale armor with sneak attack and Dragon Masque will offer more dps than the Black Dragonscale set. So I think it's more of a choice between the Blue set to max spell power or the Shadowscale set to max ranged dps. I think either one is viable and I'm still undecided about which one I will go for.


Since you are suggesting two specializations, I'd like to suggest one more item: bracers of wind. +16% lightning lore, +90 magnetic spell power. Yes, not great and yes, it would preclude wearing the force bracers, but it's something to consider if one is going electric (and whatever) for the lore alone. In fact, a case could be made for making a pure electric specced artie who twists in electric Energy burst - give up on force completely. My guess is that this will be a favorite for melee arties, but you could probably make some of the electric rune arms worthwhile.

Bracers of wind is an ok choice to boost electric lore, but then you're limited to only 90 electric spell power. I'd much rather boost spell power over lore, within reason of course. That's one advantage of going acid specced over electric. You can use Corruption for your acid spell power and the Rock Boots for lore. If you go electric, you have to use Iron Beads if you want a decent spell power, which means losing 5 DCs.


Regarding Energy Burst: it's never been worth it on my artie. But I'm highly specialized in force. I tried it with electricity and only pulled off 2-4k damage with it. Since EB requires that I get surrounded, it was a hinderance. On the other hand, it mixes quite nicely with Primal Scream. You fire one then the other off, then your artie spells (in this case, set to max). I imagine arcanotechnitian types use it.

Energy burst is huge. It's like an AoE boulder toss. But it does require that second spell power since there's no energy burst force. A 2-4k AoE every 30 seconds for almost no mana is pretty significant. I tend to have somewhat of a reckless playstyle, so getting in the middle of a group of mobs suits me quite well. :) I'll usually run back through a group while I'm kiting them around and hit it as I'm going through them. But that's another advantage to WF, you can be a little more reckless when you've got the easy button healing.

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 01:45 PM
This post has made me realize why I am not playing my first life arti as much any more, and an aspect of my dilemma.

I think I will just turn him into a completionist Druid until there has been a gear upgrade for the Artis.

Sorc has been looking pretty good to me.

Nodoze
03-31-2014, 02:06 PM
I was taking my Arti TR project through the ropes to get him to the place of being a optimum Arti as far as PL are concerned.
...
This post has made me realize why I am not playing my first life arti as much any more, and an aspect of my dilemma.

I think I will just turn him into a completionist Druid until there has been a gear upgrade for the Artis.
Sorc has been looking pretty good to me.Good thread and glad to see Singular, Ancient, Jelara & others chime in with thoughts & ideas. Sad to see no optimal solutions.

Very sad to see multiple considering shelving their Arties for/from EE content until Turbine releases some better upgrades/options.

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 03:33 PM
Good points Panzermeyer. I didn't really consider the pros and cons of Shadowmail since I'm not a fleshy, but these are both worth noting.

Yea I just won't do warforged. So my arti is fleshy going with construct essence. So I do consider it. =)

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 03:51 PM
To Cthru: I run with my xbow's red slot taken up by a 138 force augment and wear the 20% bracers. My Archaic Device hits for 1200-2200, BT and Ruin 3-9 k, and whatever for artie spells. Honestly, I'm thinking of turning off max/emp for tac/det and prismatic strike since I primarily use those as CC and not damage. BB is still very useful but rarely kills things before the timer wears out in EE content.

Because I'm concerned about CC, the must have for me is the Sage's Locekt (+5 Evocation, +15 spell power). I really don't see how this is an option on an artie and I certainly cannot recommend putting any other necklace on.

I have never run with TD or PS on Maximized. The damage is really minial even maximized, and just burns quicker to a smaller XP pool. Both are for CC. And thus the Sage's locket was a must for me.



Since you are suggesting two specializations, I'd like to suggest one more item: bracers of wind. +16% lightning lore, +90 magnetic spell power. Yes, not great and yes, it would preclude wearing the force bracers, but it's something to consider if one is going electric (and whatever) for the lore alone. In fact, a case could be made for making a pure electric specced artie who twists in electric Energy burst - give up on force completely. My guess is that this will be a favorite for melee arties, but you could probably make some of the electric rune arms worthwhile.

I run with the bracers of wind as well. However I mainly do that for the blurry, dodge, and lightning lore.


Regarding Energy Burst: it's never been worth it on my artie. But I'm highly specialized in force. I tried it with electricity and only pulled off 2-4k damage with it. Since EB requires that I get surrounded, it was a hinderance. On the other hand, it mixes quite nicely with Primal Scream. You fire one then the other off, then your artie spells (in this case, set to max). I imagine arcanotechnitian types use it.

I am with Cthru, Energy burst is a 20sp for that 2-4k of damage. And I have hit (electric specced) over 7k before on energy burst. Even if in higher difficulty content it doesn't kill stuff outright, 20sp for 2-7k of damage is pretty damn nice. Cheaper and more effective than any of the other Arti damage based spells.


Thank you Cthru for this top - it's something we need to think about to keep arties as an end game class, despite the proposed changes.

I agree. But over all, I think that a lot of the DDO gear is lagging behind the game. I wish rather than increase the lvl cap to 30, they would work on updating some existing versions of gear, and adding new gear, to make toons more viable on the more difficult content. Artis are definitely lagging more than others.

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 03:54 PM
Sorc has been looking pretty good to me.

Having played a lot of Sorcs, I think Druids are a more fun to play and a bit more viable.

Excellent healing and rez capabilities. Don't HAVE to be warforged for the self healing. Don't have to come to stupid MM Shiradi spams just to be effective.

Druids jsut have more options in playstyle.

And sides, lots of new spells from all of the older divine/arcane spells. The variety is nice.

And I have to say there doesn't seem to be any CC spell better than Earthquake.

Just having so much fun with the Druid class.

CThruTheEgo
03-31-2014, 04:59 PM
But over all, I think that a lot of the DDO gear is lagging behind the game. I wish rather than increase the lvl cap to 30, they would work on updating some existing versions of gear, and adding new gear, to make toons more viable on the more difficult content. Artis are definitely lagging more than others.

Agreed. Although I think barbs, bards, and paladins would have a lot to say regarding our complaints about artis needing some love. :)


Having played a lot of Sorcs, I think Druids are a more fun to play and a bit more viable.

Excellent healing and rez capabilities. Don't HAVE to be warforged for the self healing. Don't have to come to stupid MM Shiradi spams just to be effective.

Druids jsut have more options in playstyle.

And sides, lots of new spells from all of the older divine/arcane spells. The variety is nice.

And I have to say there doesn't seem to be any CC spell better than Earthquake.

Just having so much fun with the Druid class.

I haven't played a druid, but I would agree that they are more versatile. I just like to play the nuker role, which sorcs are exceedingly good at. I wouldn't go the shiradi route, just not interested.

If I ever do get around to playing a druid, I've already got my name reserved on Sarlona: Vespa the Druish Princess. :)

Panzermeyer
03-31-2014, 05:19 PM
Agreed. Although I think barbs, bards, and paladins would have a lot to say regarding our complaints about artis needing some love. :)

Oh that is why I said lagging more than others, instead of lagging the most =)


I haven't played a druid, but I would agree that they are more versatile. I just like to play the nuker role, which sorcs are exceedingly good at. I wouldn't go the shiradi route, just not interested.

If I ever do get around to playing a druid, I've already got my name reserved on Sarlona: Vespa the Druish Princess. :)

Oh you can definitely create a Druid Nuker.
Michele has a great post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434207-Evoker) on it. She started with a Shiradi Druid and now converted to a Draconic Nuker. When I go for a final life Druid I plan to try both routes out to see which I like better.

The Druid Nuker is a bit more in need of gear, I went the Shiradi route since I did not have a ton of specific gear, and I could leverage a bunch of House C Crafted gear for my ETR temporary runs.

The Shiradi Route, I drop and Earth Quake, Firewall, Body of the Sun and Call Lightning Storm and just stand in the middle and watch things die, or be killed by others while they are helpless. The Shiradi procs are pretty ridiculous. On those spells. While I have Energy Burst twisted in as well. Makes for lot's of fun.

Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping cold are great dots. And I know my gear is way under for cold power as well.
And a lot of my single target spells are SLA's for ridiculously low SP.

Give it a try before you decide on the Sorc route, you might be surprised.

painkiller3
03-31-2014, 05:58 PM
Good thread and glad to see Singular, Ancient, Jelara & others chime in with thoughts & ideas. Sad to see no optimal solutions.

Very sad to see multiple considering shelving their Arties for/from EE content until Turbine releases some better upgrades/options.

I wouldn't hold my breath with all this FR content...your best bet this year is likely e3BC

Tilomere
03-31-2014, 07:42 PM
Why not drop spellcasting and pick up CC through Elf AA tree paralyzing imbue, pin, whistler, and adrenaline knockdown?

Nothing says permanent CC like a slayer adrenaline repeater trio of bolts. Use construct essence if you want to heal yourself with reconstruct.

Singular
03-31-2014, 08:40 PM
I don't use maximize/empower for tactical detonation or prismatic strike. I only use those for their CC potential, not damage. Blade barrier I still find to be very useful though.

Oh no! You guys are both telling me this ~ I better turn off max/emp for my CC spells! hahaha, I hit upon that pretty late.


And the second spell power is primarily for energy burst, not the rune arm. If it were not for energy burst, I'd just go force all the way and gearing would be a lot simpler.

It's worth mentioning that the Shadowscale armor with sneak attack and Dragon Masque will offer more dps than the Black Dragonscale set. So I think it's more of a choice between the Blue set to max spell power or the Shadowscale set to max ranged dps. I think either one is viable and I'm still undecided about which one I will go for.

I don't know - w/t/black, I'm basically always running the +5% (except for the first guy). On the other hand, for soloing, deception is pretty nice. I've only ever accidentally used it by forgetting to swap out my Ring of Lies - and people in raids get so annoyed with me :) But I do like how the baddies can't find you at that point.


Bracers of wind is an ok choice to boost electric lore, but then you're limited to only 90 electric spell power. I'd much rather boost spell power over lore, within reason of course. That's one advantage of going acid specced over electric. You can use Corruption for your acid spell power and the Rock Boots for lore. If you go electric, you have to use Iron Beads if you want a decent spell power, which means losing 5 DCs.

Yeah, I only meant it for the lore. If you're going electric for energy burst, consider slotting both. You could hotbar the Iron Beeds next to your hotbarred EB and click them both, then swap back to your CC necklace. I do stuff like this all the time for displacement, so it's possible, if a bit of a pain. For ex., you'd slot Iron Beeds as '7' and EB as '8' and just click 7-8 when you want to EB, then, say, 9 to return to your regular necklace (that's just an example; I have Sage's on the period button). Damn! And I just sold some EE Iron Beeds...

Actually, now that we're talking about massive gear slotting - if you had the time, you could make a Thunderholme repeater with 150 sp/22% lore on it for your EB preference and quick slot it as above, then switch back to your damaging repeater.

You know...now that I think about it, that's probably the way to go. It means a loooooot of farming though.


Energy burst is huge. It's like an AoE boulder toss. But it does require that second spell power since there's no energy burst force. A 2-4k AoE every 30 seconds for almost no mana is pretty significant. I tend to have somewhat of a reckless playstyle, so getting in the middle of a group of mobs suits me quite well. :) I'll usually run back through a group while I'm kiting them around and hit it as I'm going through them. But that's another advantage to WF, you can be a little more reckless when you've got the easy button healing.


I run with the bracers of wind as well. However I mainly do that for the blurry, dodge, and lightning lore.

(to be a jerk) See Cthru! :)


I am with Cthru, Energy burst is a 20sp for that 2-4k of damage. And I have hit (electric specced) over 7k before on energy burst. Even if in higher difficulty content it doesn't kill stuff outright, 20sp for 2-7k of damage is pretty damn nice. Cheaper and more effective than any of the other Arti damage based spells.

Wow, nice. Ok you guys have convinced me. I'm going to build a Thunderholme repeater for that. I'm da.m.n-well not going back and farming out bracers of the wind :)


I agree. But over all, I think that a lot of the DDO gear is lagging behind the game. I wish rather than increase the lvl cap to 30, they would work on updating some existing versions of gear, and adding new gear, to make toons more viable on the more difficult content. Artis are definitely lagging more than others.

Yes, totally, b/c we're the generalists who choose our own specializations out of materials made for other classes, largely. If we had our own ED, it'd be easier to synergize. But, to be honest, I like that we have all these bizarre choices and work-arounds.


Agreed. Although I think barbs, bards, and paladins would have a lot to say regarding our complaints about artis needing some love. :)

I haven't played a druid, but I would agree that they are more versatile. I just like to play the nuker role, which sorcs are exceedingly good at. I wouldn't go the shiradi route, just not interested.

If I ever do get around to playing a druid, I've already got my name reserved on Sarlona: Vespa the Druish Princess. :)

Part of the reason I'm not super impressed with EB on arties is b/c my sorc hits for 7-14k with it. The highest I've done is 17k. When I run in Draconic, EB + Dragon breath wipes EE rooms clean.

But I mostly run in Shiradi :p as an AOE caster. Force spells are my back-up, when my regular spells can't hit b/c of evasion - the AOE stuff is hugely powerful.


Yea I just won't do warforged. So my arti is fleshy going with construct essence. So I do consider it. =)

I'm right there with you Panzer! I can't play toasters :)

Singular
03-31-2014, 09:01 PM
Why not drop spellcasting and pick up CC through Elf AA tree paralyzing imbue, pin, whistler, and adrenaline knockdown?

Nothing says permanent CC like a slayer adrenaline repeater trio of bolts. Use construct essence if you want to heal yourself with reconstruct.

Wow, I just looked at the elf tree and it would be great for my twf/bow fighter - didn't even know it existed! Thanks :)

It has some interesting possibilities for arties, but a couple problems - slayer is a tier 5 so would that preclude the artie capstone? I don't think I'd take it if that were the case, b/c running at full speed with rune arms is a must for me.

Also, you'd be trading in spell power and criticals for 'arrow' imbuement. That would decrease a lot of our attacks, including rune arm damage. However, for a primarily xbow user, if the 'arrow' imbues apply to bolts, it would be one way to stay pure artie. At the same time, you'd be giving up evasion - if you're going to focus on the xbow, rogue splash is a good idea.

Panzermeyer
04-01-2014, 09:44 AM
Why not drop spellcasting and pick up CC through Elf AA tree paralyzing imbue, pin, whistler, and adrenaline knockdown?

Nothing says permanent CC like a slayer adrenaline repeater trio of bolts. Use construct essence if you want to heal yourself with reconstruct.

That would be interesting. I'd have to get real clear though on what AA enhancements work with repeaters and which don't cause I know they all don't. Which would mean that I would be sort of wasting AP for some CC. And also would likely have to not get the teir 5 BE enhancements. Running around with rune arm fully charged is definitely my play style, and I cannot do it running around suuuppppeeerrrr sssssllllllooowww.

CThruTheEgo
04-01-2014, 10:46 AM
Why not drop spellcasting and pick up CC through Elf AA tree paralyzing imbue, pin, whistler, and adrenaline knockdown?

Nothing says permanent CC like a slayer adrenaline repeater trio of bolts. Use construct essence if you want to heal yourself with reconstruct.

This is an entirely different build, one which is not optimal by staying pure. You go pure arti precisely for the spellcasting capability. You'd be spending a lot of AP in the AA tree (and elf tree if you didn't multiclass with ranger) which means losing out on a lot of what the arti trees offer. There is a lot to spend points on in the arti trees. Plus, since a lot of AA stuff doesn't work with repeaters, you're spending a lot of AP primarily for slayer arrows. Personally, I question the value of that investment. Not to mention, if you want a pure ranged dps build, this would not be optimal and will be far behind what other pure ranged dps builds (i.e. monkcher) will offer.

unbongwah
04-01-2014, 11:07 AM
Why not drop spellcasting and pick up CC through Elf AA tree paralyzing imbue, pin, whistler, and adrenaline knockdown?
Unless they just changed it, imbues don't affect crossbows / bolts, so paralyzing wouldn't work. Slaying Arrow does, though I'm not sure if it procs on every bolt in a 3-shot volley or just the first one.

CThruTheEgo
04-04-2014, 07:25 AM
Yeah, I only meant it for the lore. If you're going electric for energy burst, consider slotting both. You could hotbar the Iron Beeds next to your hotbarred EB and click them both, then swap back to your CC necklace. I do stuff like this all the time for displacement, so it's possible, if a bit of a pain. For ex., you'd slot Iron Beeds as '7' and EB as '8' and just click 7-8 when you want to EB, then, say, 9 to return to your regular necklace (that's just an example; I have Sage's on the period button). Damn! And I just sold some EE Iron Beeds...

Actually, now that we're talking about massive gear slotting - if you had the time, you could make a Thunderholme repeater with 150 sp/22% lore on it for your EB preference and quick slot it as above, then switch back to your damaging repeater.

You know...now that I think about it, that's probably the way to go. It means a loooooot of farming though.

Personally, I can't stand that much swapping. I don't mind swapping for clickies and such, but doing it in the middle of combat to boost my dps is not my style.


Part of the reason I'm not super impressed with EB on arties is b/c my sorc hits for 7-14k with it. The highest I've done is 17k. When I run in Draconic, EB + Dragon breath wipes EE rooms clean.

Sorcs are definitely better nukers than artis, but energy burst is still a huge dps increase for artis. I will say that if you're not using energy burst, then the loss of boulder toss is much more significant. Energy burst mitigates that loss quite a bit.

CThruTheEgo
04-04-2014, 07:34 AM
Well I guess that's all of our options then. I'm still leaning towards option 4, although I might try out option 2 and just dump DCs altogether to see how much of a difference it makes.

I'm glad we're getting the boost to challenge ingredients this weekend since it looks like I need to farm out a set of Epic Rock Boots.

Panzermeyer
04-04-2014, 10:48 AM
So based on the above, I'm thinking the only decent options are:

1) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature for 114 acid spell power, Sage's Locket, and Bluescale for 9% lore and 15 spell power set bonus
2) slot 138 force in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Archaic Device, Iron Beads for 120 electric and 16% electric lore
3) slot 138 acid in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within, Sage's Locket, and Bluescale for 80 potency (affecting force) and 9% lore and 15 spell power set bonus
4) slot 138 acid in the repeater, Sage's Cuffs for 20% force lore, Corruption of Nature for 114 acid spell power, Sage's Locket, and Epic Rock Boots for 16% acid lore

These options provide:

1) 168 force/24% lore, 144 acid/9% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm dps, good energy burst, strong arti spells
2) 153 force/24% lore, 135 electric/20% lore, -5 DCs (these numbers assume 15 spellcraft is slotted somewhere) -- strong rune arm, strong energy burst, strong art spells, gimp DCs
3) 110 force/24% lore, 168 acid/9% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm dps, strong energy burst, weak arti spells
4) 153 force/24% lore, 129 acid/16% lore, +5 DCs -- strong rune arm dps, strong energy burst, strong arti spells

Well I guess that's all of our options then. I'm still leaning towards option 4, although I might try out option 2 and just dump DCs altogether to see how much of a difference it makes.

I'm glad we're getting the boost to challenge ingredients this weekend since it looks like I need to farm out a set of Epic Rock Boots.

So your option 4 you are slotting 138 acid into your repeater as well as having the the 114 from the Corruption of Nature. I know it is 24 more spell power but it seems to be a bit of a waste of spots. Wouldn't it make more sense to slot force or electric in the repeater to get a boost to another element? With the sage's cuffs, force would seem to make sense.

Reconsideration of Spell Power
Though as I write this I am beginning to reconsider the need to force spec. Actually the rule of thumb I use for which spell power is a must is what rune arm do I mainly use.

Assuming Corruption of Nature is that answer (which is the one I have always gotten the best results with) then Acid is a must. Corruption of Nature and Rock Boots makes for the Acid Spell power. Doesn't make sense to me to slot more acid in the repeater and loose out on slotting a different element. I know it does cause the lose of 24 acid spell power. But is allows for more versatility which I would think is more important.

Force
So let's think about it, really the only Arti needs for force are

Prismatic Strike
Tactical Detonation
Blade Barrier
Boulder Toss
Archaic Device
No Energy Burst


Boulder Toss is getting decoupled from force spell power in the next patch. TD and PS I (and you have said) don't run for damage, but for CC so added force spell power is not super important. Archaic Device has only 4 shots which is already dropping its DPS compared to other rune arms anyway.

That leaves BB.

Which the utility of it can be argued for in the higher levels and difficulties as a killing machine. So wearing the sage's cuff's only benefits me with a +4% crit chance on BB and nothing else, as Arti's don't need SP. To be really effective you need to be DC based.

Electric

Energy Burst (sheath becomes useful in a number of quests and raids as electric damage mitigation)
Archano SLA's
Arching Sky occasionally (I have never been thrilled with the DPS of this rune arm and rarely if ever use)
The Arti electric spells in general (Blast Rod, Lightning bolt, Lightning Sphere, etc)
Combine this with a lightning motes shot and you have +15% more damage


So the question really comes down to how effective can you get it and how often do you use BB. But to be honest I think the electric/acid option looks much, much better.

That being said going electric/acid I would go with Bracers of Wind/Sage's Locket rather than Sage's Cuff's/Iron Beads. This will ensure that I have the +5 to evocation and give me a yellow/colorless slot as well as few minor other benefits. Teir 3 Bracers of Wind and Iron Beads both provide the same Electric Spell Lore. Then of course slotting electric SP into the repeater.

Between the Energy Burst and Lightning Motes, I would think that set up you will be dealing much better daamge.

CThruTheEgo
04-04-2014, 12:57 PM
So your option 4 you are slotting 138 acid into your repeater as well as having the the 114 from the Corruption of Nature.

Whoops. That's supposed to be slotting 138 force into the repeater. I probably just copy/pasted and wasn't paying attention. Thanks for catching it.

Regarding force: yes it is basically for blade barrier, which I get a lot of use out of so it is worth boosting for me.


Archaic Device has only 4 shots which is already dropping its DPS compared to other rune arms anyway.

Are you sure about this? Admittedly it has been a looong time since I used one of the force rune arms, but I seem to recall them having five shots just like acid. They seem to be affected by a lower percentage of spell power than the acid rune arms, which is why acid is generally considered stronger, but I actually wonder about that now since you can get a higher crit chance for force than acid and since I'll likely end up with a higher force spell power as well.

Regarding electric: The only use I would get out of electric is from energy burst. The electric rune arms, the SLAs, and the arti electric spells are not worth it at all imo. The only benefit of electric over acid is that you can get higher spell power and crit chance with electric, which means stronger energy bursts. I wouldn't slot electric in the repeater as I don't want to gimp my blade barriers, so going electric really means using Iron Beads and dropping the 5 DCs from Sage's Locket, at least for me.

DCs are pretty low on an arti already. You can reach about 60 at most, which is low for higher EE content, and that is with a heavy investment. We don't get any debuffs like sorcs or wizards so we're stuck with garbage DCs. As it is, I run in Fury and don't twist magister evocation specialist or draconic precise casting, so I'm already losing out on 8 DCs right there. Not to mention, the rune arms are not affected by your full evocation DC, so they are already much lower. All of this makes me think that it really wouldn't matter too much to just drop DCs altogether and just go for max damage. I'm still on the fence about dropping DCs, but it is something I'm considering. I'll probably do a bit of testing to get an idea of how much DCs matter.

Singular
04-04-2014, 08:33 PM
Personally, I can't stand that much swapping. I don't mind swapping for clickies and such, but doing it in the middle of combat to boost my dps is not my style.

No swap no life!


Sorcs are definitely better nukers than artis, but energy burst is still a huge dps increase for artis. I will say that if you're not using energy burst, then the loss of boulder toss is much more significant. Energy burst mitigates that loss quite a bit.

Yeah, you've convinced me on this one.


Well I guess that's all of our options then. I'm still leaning towards option 4, although I might try out option 2 and just dump DCs altogether to see how much of a difference it makes.

I'm thinking about going the other way - focus on repeater and CC, but losing spell power. :)

Singular
04-04-2014, 08:35 PM
Archaic Device has only 4 shots which is already dropping its DPS compared to other rune arms anyway.

I don't think that's correct. I'm pretty sure mine fires 5 shots per blast, although I have seen only 4 sometimes. I'm now going to have to look into this! If only 4, it would throw all my damage calculations off.[/QUOTE]


So the question really comes down to how effective can you get it and how often do you use BB. But to be honest I think the electric/acid option looks much, much better.

That being said going electric/acid I would go with Bracers of Wind/Sage's Locket rather than Sage's Cuff's/Iron Beads. This will ensure that I have the +5 to evocation and give me a yellow/colorless slot as well as few minor other benefits. Teir 3 Bracers of Wind and Iron Beads both provide the same Electric Spell Lore. Then of course slotting electric SP into the repeater.

Between the Energy Burst and Lightning Motes, I would think that set up you will be dealing much better daamge.

You might be right about that. Let's play with the different build ideas.

Oxarhamar
04-04-2014, 09:19 PM
Wow, I just looked at the elf tree and it would be great for my twf/bow fighter - didn't even know it existed! Thanks :)

It has some interesting possibilities for arties, but a couple problems - slayer is a tier 5 so would that preclude the artie capstone? I don't think I'd take it if that were the case, b/c running at full speed with rune arms is a must for me.

Also, you'd be trading in spell power and criticals for 'arrow' imbuement. That would decrease a lot of our attacks, including rune arm damage. However, for a primarily xbow user, if the 'arrow' imbues apply to bolts, it would be one way to stay pure artie. At the same time, you'd be giving up evasion - if you're going to focus on the xbow, rogue splash is a good idea.

The imbues don't work on bolts but, the shot effects specifically Arrow of Slaying works.

Those Artificers who are building for AA arrow of slaying are likely building for high repeater DPS + sneak attack then using Slaying+Adrenaline to do upwards of 10k a bolt for 20sp


Shattermantle Shot+3(w), Inferno shot+2(w), dispelling shot+3(w) &, True strike all work with Repeater. Besides their added effects they add (W)s to your attacks which can be a nice boost of DPS on its own.

tkneip1874
04-05-2014, 06:14 PM
Not sure if it was mentioned but what about holy symbol of lloth from "House of Death Undone". That gives 102 impulse in trinket slot. You give up Planar focus and is under 114 like u were looking for but it is a suggestion.

CThruTheEgo
04-06-2014, 07:34 AM
Not sure if it was mentioned but what about holy symbol of lloth from "House of Death Undone". That gives 102 impulse in trinket slot. You give up Planar focus and is under 114 like u were looking for but it is a suggestion.

That's an option also, especially if you plan to use a Thunder Forged repeater instead of Needle. Then you could slot 138 acid or electric in the repeater and use Rock Boots or Bracers of Wind for the lore. Rune arm dps would suffer if using Archaic Device, especially if you were also using the Bracers of Wind. So acid seems like the better choice here and use Corruption of Nature or Turmoil Within. That would give you some of the strongest rune arm and energy burst dps while lowering your blade barrier damage a little.

Thanks for the suggestion.

CThruTheEgo
04-06-2014, 08:46 AM
I updated the options presented in the OP based on the feedback and suggestions received, moved them around, and standardized them to make comparisons easier.

Singular
04-06-2014, 10:48 AM
I was thinking...what about fire specked, as one of the options, through the Sage's Spectacles. It buffs most artie spells, some rather ineffective rune arms and, more importantly, the new ruby augment crystals (well, the fire ones anyways), and just maybe the Thunderholme effects, too.

It may not work on arties, but it is something I'm going to try on my twf who uses to Thunderholme fire khopesh + ruby eye of fire or whatever it's called.

tkneip1874
04-06-2014, 09:30 PM
Here are my thoughts on how I am planning on gearing my arti. Before I do keep in mind a few things about my play style.

1 - I am not a huge EE fan.
2 - If I start running EE more often it will probably be with my BF FVS/Pal because I have better gear and am more used to playstyle.
3 - As of right now I am still using SLA whiWch means electric is important.

With that in mind I am looking at Sages locket for DC.
Holy symbol of Lloth for 102 Impulse, Lucid Dreams with Kinetic V crafted for 15% crit
Slotted 138 electric on Needle, Bracers of Wind for Lore.

Singular
04-07-2014, 04:27 AM
Here are my thoughts on how I am planning on gearing my arti. Before I do keep in mind a few things about my play style.

1 - I am not a huge EE fan.
2 - If I start running EE more often it will probably be with my BF FVS/Pal because I have better gear and am more used to playstyle.
3 - As of right now I am still using SLA whiWch means electric is important.

With that in mind I am looking at Sages locket for DC.
Holy symbol of Lloth for 102 Impulse, Lucid Dreams with Kinetic V crafted for 15% crit
Slotted 138 electric on Needle, Bracers of Wind for Lore.

The Sage's Locket is super easy to get. Just run Friends in Low Places on whatever difficulty, complete, and choose it from the end reward list.

Lucid Dreams is always going to do less damage than Archaic Device.

Kmnh
04-07-2014, 06:05 AM
No love for Legendary Dreadnought?

You get a much higher uptime on endless fusillade and it is fairly easy to start blitz with energy burst and a fully charged runearm. Blitz doesn't require the kills to come from weapon damage, if you last hit 2 mobs with energy burst or the runearm you get 2 stacks.

Hiponic
04-07-2014, 06:08 AM
You can hear me moan and groan daily about having a Arti ED... yea yea shiradi.. But c'mon now. Lets get one with some Spell,XBOW specific, and A little trapping involved... i trap just fine on EE. But thats dedicating alot of my equipment to it.. when I could have been using them slots for lack of XBOW damage... Getting 110-190 bolt buffed with Tier 1 Thunderforged isnt exactly the best and im still new so havent gotten around to getting needle slinger yet. Ive been using lucid dreams but from reading this ima try out My Archaic device. seems like thats a fan favorite..

Im a dedicated arti fanboi tho. Im on my 3rd art life.. and from first life to now its night and day as far as damage but I still dont compare to ....well any other class on damage.. WERE MORE THEN DEADLY BUFFERS!!!!!!!

;P

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 09:24 AM
I don't think that's correct. I'm pretty sure mine fires 5 shots per blast, although I have seen only 4 sometimes. I'm now going to have to look into this! If only 4, it would throw all my damage calculations off.

Yea I miss read the wiki. It does fire 5 shots.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 09:26 AM
I was thinking...what about fire specked, as one of the options, through the Sage's Spectacles. It buffs most artie spells, some rather ineffective rune arms and, more importantly, the new ruby augment crystals (well, the fire ones anyways), and just maybe the Thunderholme effects, too.

It may not work on arties, but it is something I'm going to try on my twf who uses to Thunderholme fire khopesh + ruby eye of fire or whatever it's called.

Not really worth it on artis, as one of the main reasons for spell power is to boost rune arm DPS. Since there is no high end fire rune arms, it would be a waste.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 09:28 AM
I was thinking...what about fire specked, as one of the options, through the Sage's Spectacles. It buffs most artie spells, some rather ineffective rune arms and, more importantly, the new ruby augment crystals (well, the fire ones anyways), and just maybe the Thunderholme effects, too.

It may not work on arties, but it is something I'm going to try on my twf who uses to Thunderholme fire khopesh + ruby eye of fire or whatever it's called.

I really like this suggestion and I can't believe I missed the Sage's Spectacles. This option would provide the strongest energy burst. I've been trying to put together a full gear set with these in mind but I'm having a hard time making it work. Goggles seem to be more difficult to replace.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 09:29 AM
Lucid Dreams is always going to do less damage than Archaic Device.

Yes but he is specifically using it for the crafting that he can put on it, which I think is a senseable solution in certain cases.

I see the lack of crafting that can be added to high end rune arms, another thing that drops the arti. All heroic rune arms can be crafted and then suddenly they cannot. And generally artis are suppose to be the best crafters, a sad loss really.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 09:31 AM
I really like this suggestion and I can't believe I missed the Sage's Spectacles. This option would provide the strongest energy burst. I've been trying to put together a full gear set with these in mind but I'm having a hard time making it work. Goggles seem to be more difficult to replace.

Yea wouldn't work for me.

My arti got a pair of goggles from end reward that is Int +10 Wiz IX for the +250 spell points. Kind of hard to beat for the goggles.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 09:32 AM
Not really worth it on artis, as one of the main reasons for spell power is to boost rune arm DPS. Since there is no high end fire rune arms, it would be a waste.

You could just go force/fire and use Archaic Device. It seems clear that the acid rune arms use a higher percentage of spell power than the force, but it's not known how much. I'm actually curious if the force rune arms would win out with a slightly higher spell power and crit chance.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 09:34 AM
I see the lack of crafting that can be added to high end rune arms, another thing that drops the arti. All heroic rune arms can be crafted and then suddenly they cannot. And generally artis are suppose to be the best crafters, a sad lose really.

Agreed.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 09:52 AM
Yea wouldn't work for me.

My arti got a pair of goggles from end reward that is Int +10 Wiz IX for the +250 spell points. Kind of hard to beat for the goggles.

I'll be using the EE Gloves of the Master Illusionist for 11 int and get wizardry X from the planar erudition set. I had planned on using Intricate Field Optics, so losing those means one less slot and having to slot spot elsewhere, so it's not easy.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 09:58 AM
No love for Legendary Dreadnought?

You get a much higher uptime on endless fusillade and it is fairly easy to start blitz with energy burst and a fully charged runearm. Blitz doesn't require the kills to come from weapon damage, if you last hit 2 mobs with energy burst or the runearm you get 2 stacks.

How do you charge blitz on a pure ranged arti? If you're talking about a melee arti, I'm not sure pure is optimal.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 10:47 AM
You could just go force/fire and use Archaic Device. It seems clear that the acid rune arms use a higher percentage of spell power than the force, but it's not known how much. I'm actually curious if the force rune arms would win out with a slightly higher spell power and crit chance.

Oh it might, since there is not much resistant to force.

The problem is that pretty much other than caster sticks there really isn't anything out there, other than those bracers from Wheloon that boost Force crit chance. And with body inventory space at a premium I am not sure slotting one item with only one benefit in any slot (Since SP is useless on an Arti) would be worth it.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 11:51 AM
Oh it might, since there is not much resistant to force.

The problem is that pretty much other than caster sticks there really isn't anything out there, other than those bracers from Wheloon that boost Force crit chance. And with body inventory space at a premium I am not sure slotting one item with only one benefit in any slot (Since SP is useless on an Arti) would be worth it.

To some extent I agree, but this seems to be the situation artis are facing. There are very limited gear options for artis to really reach their full potential. Bracers I don't think is a very competitive slot, though. There's exceptional seeker 5 on the bracers from the High Road and then convalescent for fleshies (which isn't an issue for me as a WF). The new bracers aren't anything spectacular imo. I might be missing something but I can't think of anything else that really competes for that slot on an arti.

The largest portion of my damage comes from a combination of energy burst, blade barrier, and the rune arm, so I'm looking primarily at how to maximize those. Blade barrier uses force, the rune arm can be either force or acid, and energy burst can be fire, ice, electric, or acid. Given that blade barrier is force only, I'm pretty much committed to boosting force regardless of what the rune arm and energy burst use. 20% crit chance is pretty significant and is a decent improvement over the 9% from spell lore on the Bluescale armor. It doesn't really matter to me which types I use for the rune arm and energy burst. I'm mainly looking for the combination which will do the most damage overall without gimping DCs (preferably) or ranged dps.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 11:54 AM
To some extent I agree, but this seems to be the situation artis are facing. There are very limited gear options for artis to really reach their full potential. Bracers I don't think is a very competitive slot, though. There's exceptional seeker 5 on the bracers from the High Road and then convalescent for fleshies (which isn't an issue for me as a WF). The new bracers aren't anything spectacular imo. I might be missing something but I can't think of anything else that really competes for that slot on an arti.

The largest portion of my damage comes from a combination of energy burst, blade barrier, and the rune arm, so I'm looking primarily at how to maximize those. Blade barrier uses force, the rune arm can be either force or acid, and energy burst can be fire, ice, electric, or acid. Given that blade barrier is force only, I'm pretty much committed to boosting force regardless of what the rune arm and energy burst use. 20% crit chance is pretty significant and is a decent improvement over the 9% from spell lore on the Bluescale armor. It doesn't really matter to me which types I use for the rune arm and energy burst. I'm mainly looking for the combination which will do the most damage overall without gimping DCs (preferably) or ranged dps.

Yea that makes sense to me.

Panzermeyer
04-07-2014, 11:56 AM
The sad thing about this thread is that as much as I love Artis, I just am having difficulty playing them. They are just so under optimized.

I am looking forward to ETRing my Arti and then I will probably keep her at 21 for a long time to be an Epic Challenege runner. And run the lower level stuff when the lack of gear is not such a big issue.

Very sad about that as Artis where my favorite class. Just lacks teeth now.

And I suppose will only get worse when they lift the cap up to 30.

Ancient
04-07-2014, 12:00 PM
Oh it might, since there is not much resistant to force.

The problem is that pretty much other than caster sticks there really isn't anything out there, other than those bracers from Wheloon that boost Force crit chance. And with body inventory space at a premium I am not sure slotting one item with only one benefit in any slot (Since SP is useless on an Arti) would be worth it.

It is painful, but there is one option you might consider. Cannith crafting flexible kinetic lore can go on Heavy Armor, Medium Armor, Light Armor, Clothing, Docent, Ring, Trinket, Necklace, Main Hand Weapon, Off Hand Weapon/Shield.

If you start with a blank that has both a yellow slot and a colorless slot, then you can work four different benefits into the item.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 12:13 PM
The sad thing about this thread is that as much as I love Artis, I just am having difficulty playing them. They are just so under optimized.

I am looking forward to ETRing my Arti and then I will probably keep her at 21 for a long time to be an Epic Challenege runner. And run the lower level stuff when the lack of gear is not such a big issue.

Very sad about that as Artis where my favorite class. Just lacks teeth now.

And I suppose will only get worse when they lift the cap up to 30.

Your comments earlier in the thread convinced me to start playing my druid again. I've been having fun with it and I can see the versatile nuker playstyle you were talking about. But I'm not giving up on Dubbell yet.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 12:31 PM
Here are my thoughts on how I am planning on gearing my arti. Before I do keep in mind a few things about my play style.

1 - I am not a huge EE fan.
2 - If I start running EE more often it will probably be with my BF FVS/Pal because I have better gear and am more used to playstyle.
3 - As of right now I am still using SLA whiWch means electric is important.

With that in mind I am looking at Sages locket for DC.
Holy symbol of Lloth for 102 Impulse, Lucid Dreams with Kinetic V crafted for 15% crit
Slotted 138 electric on Needle, Bracers of Wind for Lore.

You will do just fine with this setup on EH. It could be more optimized by using some of the suggestions in this thread, but you don't need to be optimal for EH.

I would second Singular's suggestion to find somewhere else to slot kinetic lore and use Archaic Device instead. It seems to use a higher percentage of spell power than Lucid Dreams.

tkneip1874
04-07-2014, 03:30 PM
The Sage's Locket is super easy to get. Just run Friends in Low Places on whatever difficulty, complete, and choose it from the end reward list.

Lucid Dreams is always going to do less damage than Archaic Device.

I'm confused. Why does Lucid dreams always do less damage. I looked both on the wiki and in game and both state the same damage, same max charge and same imbue. Yes I would rather use Archaic Device but mainly because of -2 will save and -5% mana.

Kmnh
04-07-2014, 03:41 PM
How do you charge blitz on a pure ranged arti? If you're talking about a melee arti, I'm not sure pure is optimal.

Didn't you take the cleaves for overwhelming critical anyway? That's all that you need to charge blitz. Equip a bastard sword, cleave the air for a minute and get blitzing.

This would be a major build rework but if you are doing eTRs yoiu might as well try it for a life and see if it works. On paper, it looks like it should. 10 seconds fusillade downtime, +250% crossbow damage, +1.5[w], +50% damage against helpless mobs that works on everything, even on your spells...

peng
04-07-2014, 04:17 PM
How do you charge blitz on a pure ranged arti? If you're talking about a melee arti, I'm not sure pure is optimal.

It takes forever, but trip and sunder can charge up blitz.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 05:50 PM
I'm confused. Why does Lucid dreams always do less damage. I looked both on the wiki and in game and both state the same damage, same max charge and same imbue. Yes I would rather use Archaic Device but mainly because of -2 will save and -5% mana.

When the changes to spell power went live, it stated in the release notes that rune arms would be affected by a range of spell power, 50-80% iirc. As far as I know a dev has never confirmed how this percentage is calculated for the different rune arms. Players have speculated that min level might have something to do with it since a common perception is that Lucid Dreams does less damage than Archaic Device even though, as you noted, their descriptions are the same. It is also generally recognized that the acid rune arms do more damage than the force ones leading some to believe (myself included) that the force rune arms use a lower percentage of spell power due to fewer mobs having resistance to force damage and since they use a will save (generally a weaker save for mobs). As far as I know, no one has ever done any testing to see how much spell power each rune arm uses.

CThruTheEgo
04-07-2014, 06:39 PM
Didn't you take the cleaves for overwhelming critical anyway? That's all that you need to charge blitz. Equip a bastard sword, cleave the air for a minute and get blitzing.

I don't take overwhelming crit on my arti. Artis do get a lot of feats but they are all used on basic ranged and casting feats. I'm sure you could fit it in, but I personally don't see the value in spending three feats for only 1 more crit multiplier 10% of the time. That's a heavy cost.

Panzermeyer
04-08-2014, 09:24 AM
I don't take overwhelming crit on my arti. Artis do get a lot of feats but they are all used on basic ranged and casting feats. I'm sure you could fit it in, but I personally don't see the value in spending three feats for only 1 more crit multiplier 10% of the time. That's a heavy cost.

Absolutely agree on this point. Melee arti is a different story, but we have been talking about ranged/caster Arti the whole time.

Irongutz2000
04-08-2014, 01:56 PM
I use tovens hammer onn my arite 98% of the time. I like the transform kinetic energy, the lightning strike, and the shot is decent as well. I switch to corruption of nature and anartic device when needed.

CThruTheEgo
04-08-2014, 03:50 PM
I use tovens hammer onn my arite 98% of the time. I like the transform kinetic energy, the lightning strike, and the shot is decent as well. I switch to corruption of nature and anartic device when needed.

Toven's is great for the levels in which it was intended, but it just doesn't cut it on EE imo. The rune arms do not use the full evocation DC. It's not entirely clear what isn't applied, but they end up with an even lower DC than the already low DCs that artis get. This is one of Toven's greatest weaknesses for EE. The AoE damage it puts out is nothing compared to what you can do with blade barrier or energy burst and it's far behind the force or acid rune arms vs single targets.

The lightning strike is definitely nice but the transform kinetic energy effect is obsolete in EE since you don't want to be taking hits at all.

Singular
04-10-2014, 01:20 AM
I really like this suggestion and I can't believe I missed the Sage's Spectacles. This option would provide the strongest energy burst. I've been trying to put together a full gear set with these in mind but I'm having a hard time making it work. Goggles seem to be more difficult to replace.

Yeah - it could be good. I'm really only running the 2 new raids atm, so right now force is my best option as in the fire dragon raid...nearly everything is immune to fire :)

But otherwise, I think the goggles make a great ... swap item! Just swap them in for EB, then swap back to your deadly/resist or whatever goggles.

hee, hee, hee

Or don't, and build your Thunderholme xbow around fire. Spell power, as it stands, buffs the new augments (ruby eye of whatever) and so if you went the fire-fire-fire w/the vulnerability and slotted in ruby eye of flame, you'd be nicely synergized. As I said, I have done this on my twf and it works nicely - now I just have to get the goggles on her and watch the damage go up.


I'll be using the EE Gloves of the Master Illusionist for 11 int and get wizardry X from the planar erudition set. I had planned on using Intricate Field Optics, so losing those means one less slot and having to slot spot elsewhere, so it's not easy.

You don't really need spot slotted - I'm sure that by now you know where all the traps are - and, if you feel like you do, you could always slot a +15 spot diamond somewhere.


Oh it might, since there is not much resistant to force.

The problem is that pretty much other than caster sticks there really isn't anything out there, other than those bracers from Wheloon that boost Force crit chance. And with body inventory space at a premium I am not sure slotting one item with only one benefit in any slot (Since SP is useless on an Arti) would be worth it.

I have those bracers on - they're quite nice on a force specked artie. Since AD fires 5 shots on average one will crit every shot. If I move away from this set up, or go to xbow, I'd slot the 9% doublestrike ones. Yes, the new bracers are ridiculous for defense, but I tend on the side of a strong offense.


I'm confused. Why does Lucid dreams always do less damage. I looked both on the wiki and in game and both state the same damage, same max charge and same imbue. Yes I would rather use Archaic Device but mainly because of -2 will save and -5% mana.

Just get both and fire them both. Lucid Dreams always does less damage than Archaic Device on my force-specced artie. I have around 400 spell power in force, maximize and empower turned on, and 29% crit chance with force spells - I do roughly 100-200 per shot of LD and roughly 200-840 per shot of AD, meaning that LD hits for about 500-1000 and AD 1200-2200 per shot.

Singular
04-10-2014, 01:32 AM
I don't take overwhelming crit on my arti. Artis do get a lot of feats but they are all used on basic ranged and casting feats. I'm sure you could fit it in, but I personally don't see the value in spending three feats for only 1 more crit multiplier 10% of the time. That's a heavy cost.

If we can't find synergy between xbow, rune arm and spells, it might be worth trying to fully chase xbow damage. Someone sent me a tell saying that they were getting 3-5k crits on adrenaline Needle this way - if that works out to better than our generalist builds, it might be worth pursuing.


I use tovens hammer onn my arite 98% of the time. I like the transform kinetic energy, the lightning strike, and the shot is decent as well. I switch to corruption of nature and anartic device when needed.

Lightning Strike adds 9 damage/shot over time. On my artie, I get miserable damage with Toven's shot - it maxes out around 800 (and I get lots of evades/saves). I get 1200-2200 per firing of AD, meaning that I'm losing at least 400-1400 damage per firing using Toven's. Since we can fire the rune arm every 6 seconds, that's a loss of 80-235 dps.

You get almost 2 shots/second w/a repeater, making Lightning Strike add 18/sec on average.

So, for me, switching to Tovens from Archaic Device would be a net loss of, at least, 62-223 damage per second (and that's assuming a perfect shot from Toven's every time against an average shot from AD). Clearly Toven's is a waste of time on my build.

But I'm not electrical specced - if you are, what kind of damage are you seeing from Toven's in EE content?

Singular
04-10-2014, 01:39 AM
I don't take overwhelming crit on my arti. Artis do get a lot of feats but they are all used on basic ranged and casting feats. I'm sure you could fit it in, but I personally don't see the value in spending three feats for only 1 more crit multiplier 10% of the time. That's a heavy cost.

I did some numbers calculations a while back comparing LD to Fury, using Needle versus the top alchemical repeater (fire-earth-fire). Needle came out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead and did so most in Fury. My comparison had LD coming in at around 80% of Fury.

However, if you can keep your blitz up, you're going to produce a lot more damage over time than in Fury. If you are in a party, don't bother with LD, just use Fury. But if you're, say, clearing the environment in Thunderholme, or soloing a quest with a ton of mobs, try out LD. Once you get your blitz up, you'll have a great time - especially when you line them all up with Improved Precise Shot (I have my IPS and PS on a toggle, so I can flick between them).

Singular
04-12-2014, 12:18 PM
So I logged on today and did the Double Dragon raid. My Boulder Toss was hitting for 1000-2200, but usually around 2k. Not soooooooo awful - a loss of about 1-6k damage. Ruin was doing 6-9k reliably.

I still pulled aggro off all of the tanks - had one of them send me a tell saying "if you bring the dragon back to me, and stop attacking, I'll get it's aggro back" hahaha :) I always think "why? I'm just going to take it's aggro again."

Most of that damage was from Needle - so it might be worth min/maxing around xbow damage. But since Livmo posted his damage for Toven's...I'm curious to respec around lightning and see what happens.

:)

Nodoze
04-14-2014, 07:46 AM
So I logged on today and did the Double Dragon raid. My Boulder Toss was hitting for 1000-2200, but usually around 2k. Not soooooooo awful - a loss of about 1-6k damage. Ruin was doing 6-9k reliably.

I still pulled aggro off all of the tanks - had one of them send me a tell saying "if you bring the dragon back to me, and stop attacking, I'll get it's aggro back" hahaha :) I always think "why? I'm just going to take it's aggro again."

Most of that damage was from Needle - so it might be worth min/maxing around xbow damage. But since Livmo posted his damage for Toven's...I'm curious to respec around lightning and see what happens.

:)If you do respec around Electrical damage and can replicate those numbers I would love to see a full build posted including enhancements, ED/twists,gear,etc as well as spell/sla/rune-arm rotation. I would definitely like to better understand self-augmented Purple Damage (assuming it isn't achieved by pairing with an Air Savant or some other character/class). I did try awhile back with an iconic to try to max Shocking Vulnerability with the full Arcanotechnician enhancements/SLAs/Spells/Electrical-Rune-Arm but was way under-whelmed with what I could get on Sobrien. Did great with an Air Savant and with a WarPriest using Smite Weakness with a Vulnerable weapons but all other sources were meh in that testing but maybe I was missing something.

EDIT: For what it is worth my testing was only with a quick 15 iconic BF with only 14 levels of Artificer with a store bought ML13 'Greater Lightning Rune arm' but with only a 5% chance of getting vulnerable stacks I couldn't get the Vulnerable Stacks very high at all on a fully spec'ed Arcanotechnician Artificer (even when only spamming all electrical spells and rune-arm only). For reference I also tried a BF 1P/14Sorc(air), 1P/2Art/12Sorc(air) as well as various monkchers, warpriests,etc. Note however that this was before U21 came out and before we could craft a Wyrm-Wrought repeater with 1st-Degree-Burns... Hopefully something kicks in at the higher levels or the difference is Toven's or 1st-Degree-Burns (or all of them). Before U21 the only really viable vulnerable stacking that I could achieve from a single character in testing with iconics or my regular characters was by a Warpriest with the right weapons or an Air Savant. The WarPriest can get to 20 vulnerable stacks on a single target consistently in about 18 seconds by smiting with a Vulnerable weapon (I was using Frostbite blades then and get the same speed now with 1st degree burns). An Air-Savant seemed not too far behind as the vulnerable proced quite a bit but everything else was meh (including a WarPriest without a Vulnerable weapon as it takes too long to get the stacks up high without a Vulnerable weapon). More details here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434030-The-plus-100-50-damage-builds?p=5266318&viewfull=1#post5266318

CThruTheEgo
04-14-2014, 10:51 AM
You don't really need spot slotted - I'm sure that by now you know where all the traps are - and, if you feel like you do, you could always slot a +15 spot diamond somewhere.

I know some trappers don't mind going without spot, but I'm just not one of them. I don't know where every trap is, especially in newer content. I have been trying to slot it, but that's the problem I've been having - not enough slots.

Regarding electric spec (for anyone who isn't following all the recent arti threads), here are my thoughts quoted from another thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440101-Pure-Artificer-Build-Advice).


Toven's states that the blast does 8-30 + 1-10 per arti level. Assuming a pure artificer, that's going to be 19+110 average base damage per bolt or 129 average. Assuming 400 electric spell power, that's going to be an average of 556 average per bolt. Add 15% (about 83) for lightning motes and it'll be 639 average. Since nearly everything will save for half damage on EE, Toven's will hit for an average of 320 per bolt and 0 against mobs with evasion. Since it gives four shots that's 1280 average damage on every mob hit.

It might work just fine in EN and EH (although when I used Toven's I remember still seeing mostly saves in EH), but a single energy burst is going to one shot most trash in EN and EH anyway, doing at least 2k per mob. And consider blade barrier which is a persistant AoE. If you get 500 non crit saved damage on blade barrier you only need it to hit a mob three times and its already done more damage than Toven's. But since it is a persistant AoE you can kite them through it as long as it lasts, doing far more damage than you could with Toven's. All of this applies to the SLAs as well.

Everything that electric specced does well just doesn't cut it in EE and simply isn't needed in EN or EH. This is why I don't consider electric spec optimal.

Nodoze
05-31-2014, 03:45 PM
Curious if U22 helps at all. I think I saw at least a LV24 Electric Rune Arm (that got buffed at least once after feedback) but not sure what other gear is dropping.

I think I heard on the developer twitch video that the new single-weapon-fighting feats work with Rune Arms though frankly I prefer to stay at range.

CThruTheEgo
05-31-2014, 06:39 PM
Curious if U22 helps at all. I think I saw at least a LV24 Electric Rune Arm (that got buffed at least once after feedback) but not sure what other gear is dropping.

I think I heard on the developer twitch video that the new single-weapon-fighting feats work with Rune Arms though frankly I prefer to stay at range.

I'm curious about the new rune arm as well, but in the past I've been rather disappointed by new rune arms, so we will see.

SWF might open up some options for melee artis. But there is a definite lack of synergy. The melee weapon enhancements for artis only affect bastard swords and dwarven axes by raising their glancing blow percentage. The SWF feat line is better than the THF line for sure. Faster attack speed with the basic glancing blow damage is OK I guess.

But since the swashbuckling stance only applies to finesse weapons, they won't work with the arti enhancements. Although you could just use a finesse weapon to take advantage of swashbuckling, while using battle engineer primarily for the rune arm enhancements. But any arti/bard multiclass needs to be mostly arti since the power of rune arms increases with artificer levels. 4-5 bard levels at most just to reach those tier enhancements. Any more than this and the benefit of the rune arm is minimized and you'd probably be better off with a different kind of SWF imo. To top it off artis specialize in fire, force, and electric, while bards specialize in sonic. So I just don't see much synergy there.

The SLAs seem particularly suited for melee artis, but they will still have the same weaknesses and limitations that they have always had.

So overall I really don't see much changing for artis unfortunately.

gwonbush
06-02-2014, 12:06 AM
The Lightning Sphere SLA is actually a really good SLA. While the damage is rather subpar, it is a cheap and easy source of CC thanks to the fact that it doesn't seem to actually have a save against the daze effect. True, the daze is only 6 seconds and breaks on damage, but the sphere is easily spammable with a cost of 4 SP and a 6 second cooldown.

CThruTheEgo
06-02-2014, 06:58 AM
The Lightning Sphere SLA is actually a really good SLA. While the damage is rather subpar, it is a cheap and easy source of CC thanks to the fact that it doesn't seem to actually have a save against the daze effect. True, the daze is only 6 seconds and breaks on damage, but the sphere is easily spammable with a cost of 4 SP and a 6 second cooldown.

Stuns that break on damage can be problematic. I use a lot of AoE effects on my arti (energy burst, blade barrier, improved precise shot) and a lot of other players do as wel - from melees with cleaves to casters. So to really get use out of this requires quite an adjustment in playstyle for a lot of players. Without that adjustment, you have to spam it constantly to really get any use out of it, significantly reducing your own dps. That's the reason why I don't like it.

Nodoze
06-03-2014, 10:51 PM
Stuns that break on damage can be problematic. I use a lot of AoE effects on my arti (energy burst, blade barrier, improved precise shot) and a lot of other players do as wel - from melees with cleaves to casters. So to really get use out of this requires quite an adjustment in playstyle for a lot of players. Without that adjustment, you have to spam it constantly to really get any use out of it, significantly reducing your own dps. That's the reason why I don't like it.All very true though it may be something to consider when I play solo. But even solo between IPS and both the rune arm and knives both going in arcs it may be hard to utilize. I don't think I ever really tried it so hard to know...

CThruTheEgo
09-24-2014, 12:46 PM
U23 should offer some closure to this discussion... finally. Huge improvements to gear will be available. The new rune arm, Knives Eternal, seems like it will be the sole endgame option. And there are a couple of significant options for fire spell power for use with energy burst. Fire has good synergy with the arcanotechnician enhancements to fire crit. So it looks like force/fire specced is the way to go.

Here is the gear set I've come up with for Dubbell, assuming of course that none of it changes when it goes live. So thoughts, comments, critiques, improvements, what do you all think?

U23 GEAR SET:
Weapon: Thunderforged Heavy Repeater (1st degree burns/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted meteoric star ruby)
Rune Arm: Knives Eternal (knife shot/spike guard/2d10 pierce imbue/impulse150/kinetic lore22/spiked - 3.5 pierce damage/blue OR yellow slotted disease10/green slotted poison10)
Armor: Shadowscale docent (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/profane spell DC1/blue slotted PRR16/green slotted good luck2)
Goggles: EH Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot20/TS/green slotted HP40/colorless slotted vitality)
Helm: Epic Deific Diadem helm (lesser heighten5/int11/wis11/cha11/deific focus2/blue OR yellow slotted wizardry10/green slotted greater evocation focus)
Neck: Sage's Locket (evocation focus5/spellcraft15)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (turn the page/profane abilities2/attack4/damage4/light of dawn/blue OR yellow slotted blindness immunity/green slotted fear immunity)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames (combustion90/fire lore16/insight AC4/fire absorption20%/fire shield hot/inherent fire resistance10/colorless slotted/blue slotted)
Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (deathblock6/con11/concentration20/resistance11/dodge11/greater regen/blue OR yellow slotted con2/green slotted striding30)
Ring Swap: Seal of House Avithoul (dex7/sneak attack5/exc sneak attack3/improved deception)
Gloves: Sanctified Gages gloves (UMD5/2d6 light damage/deadly11/greater dispelling guard/blue OR yellow slotted str6/green slotted str2)
Boots: GS HP Smoke2 (45HP/dex skills6/blur/displacement clicky x2)
Ring: EE Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat mastery5/green slotted feather falling)
Bracers: Epic Inferno Bracers (con11/fire resist40/combustion144/spellcraft20/blue OR yellow slotted dex8/green slotted dex2)
Quiver: Quiver of Poison (d10 poison on ranged)

Shrimpboy
09-24-2014, 04:08 PM
U23 should offer some closure to this discussion... finally. Huge improvements to gear will be available. The new rune arm, Knives Eternal, seems like it will be the sole endgame option. And there are a couple of significant options for fire spell power for use with energy burst. Fire has good synergy with the arcanotechnician enhancements to fire crit. So it looks like force/fire specced is the way to go.

Here is the gear set I've come up with for Dubbell, assuming of course that none of it changes when it goes live. So thoughts, comments, critiques, improvements, what do you all think?

U23 GEAR SET:
Weapon: Thunderforged Heavy Repeater (crippling flames/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted meteoric star ruby)
Rune Arm: Knives Eternal (knife shot/spike guard/2d10 pierce imbue/impulse150/kinetic lore22/spiked - 3.5 pierce damage/blue OR yellow slotted disease10/green slotted poison10)
Armor: Shadowscale docent (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/profane spell DC1/blue slotted PRR16/green slotted good luck2)
Goggles: EH Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot20/TS/green slotted HP40/colorless slotted vitality)
Helm: Epic Deific Diadem helm (lesser heighten5/int11/wis11/cha11/deific focus2/blue OR yellow slotted wizardry10/green slotted greater evocation focus)
Neck: Sage's Locket (evocation focus5/spellcraft15)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (turn the page/profane abilities2/attack4/damage4/light of dawn/blue OR yellow slotted blindness immunity/green slotted fear immunity)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames (combustion90/fire lore16/insight AC4/fire absorption20%/fire shield hot/inherent fire resistance10/colorless slotted/blue slotted)
Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (deathblock6/con11/concentration20/resistance11/dodge11/greater regen/blue OR yellow slotted con2/green slotted striding30)
Ring Swap: Seal of House Avithoul (dex7/sneak attack5/exc sneak attack3/improved deception)
Gloves: Sanctified Gages gloves (UMD5/2d6 light damage/deadly11/greater dispelling guard/blue OR yellow slotted str6/green slotted str2)
Boots: GS HP Smoke2 (45HP/dex skills6/blur/displacement clicky x2)
Ring: EE Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat mastery5/green slotted feather falling)
Bracers: Epic Inferno Bracers (con11/fire resist40/combustion144/spellcraft20/blue OR yellow slotted dex8/green slotted dex2)
Quiver: Quiver of Poison (d10 poison on ranged)

Glad to see you back, Cthru! I am curious if you are going to change your build at all with the new Harper Tree and I am theory crafting with gear if you anyone is interested as well.

Weapon: Needle (Voltaic Shock)
Rune Arm: Knives Eternal (Reconstruction +138/???)
Armor: Flawless Shadow Dragonscale Docent (2d6 SA/Good Luck +2/???)
Helm: Dragon Masque (Globe of True Imperial Blood/Vitality +20)
Goggles: Intricate Field Optics (Int +3/Resistance +8/Wisdom +8)
Necklace: Sage's Locket/Iron Beads (Spellcraft +15/FF)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf/Jeweled Cloak (???/???)/Prismatic Cloak, Red (Resistance +10/???)
Belt: GS HP Item
Bracers: Skirmisher's Bracers
Gloves: Epic Fanged Gloves (Evo DC +2/???)
Boots: GS SP Item (Maybe switch to Epic Boots of the Innocent after buffs)
Ring 1: Seal of House Avithoul or Guardian's Ring or Circle of Malevolence
Ring 2: Consuming Darkness (Repair +15)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (???/???)

I swap to Iron Beads for Energy Burst which goes well with Motes, and I need to fit in more augments, specifically +Con, False Life, and SP

Nodoze
09-25-2014, 11:22 AM
U23 should offer some closure to this discussion... finally. Huge improvements to gear will be available. The new rune arm, Knives Eternal, seems like it will be the sole endgame option. And there are a couple of significant options for fire spell power for use with energy burst. Fire has good synergy with the arcanotechnician enhancements to fire crit. So it looks like force/fire specced is the way to go.

Here is the gear set I've come up with for Dubbell, assuming of course that none of it changes when it goes live. So thoughts, comments, critiques, improvements, what do you all think?

U23 GEAR SET:
Weapon: Thunderforged Heavy Repeater (1st degree burns/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted meteoric star ruby)
Rune Arm: Knives Eternal (knife shot/spike guard/2d10 pierce imbue/impulse150/kinetic lore22/spiked - 3.5 pierce damage/blue OR yellow slotted disease10/green slotted poison10)
...
Bracers: Epic Inferno Bracers (con11/fire resist40/combustion144/spellcraft20/blue OR yellow slotted dex8/green slotted dex2)
...Has anyone had a chance to play with the Knives Eternal and determine what kind of firing pattern it has (is it like any other currently in the game or a totally new path/shape)?

Anyone know whether the Knives Eternal is based upon a Will save or Reflex save?

Lastly, am I reading it correctly that the Knives Eternal will be upgradeable to have up to 2 red slots (Upgradeable - Primary Augment (Yellow, Blue, Red), Upgradeable - Secondary Augment (Green, Orange, Purple) ) ?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_23_named_items

All in all, if the firing pattern/saves are decent things are finally starting to look up again for Arties !

Thanks for researching and sharing and look forward to your build update !

CThruTheEgo
09-25-2014, 01:12 PM
Glad to see you back, Cthru! I am curious if you are going to change your build at all with the new Harper Tree and I am theory crafting with gear if you anyone is interested as well.

I am definitely going to include some of the harper tree. I'll probably drop a good portion of the arcanotechnician tree, in fact.


I need to fit in more augments, specifically +Con, False Life, and SP

If you're in need of more slots, try to fit in some of the epic Necro gear. Every piece has two slots. If I go with the setup posted above, I'll end up with several empty slots because I've already got every augment covered, including the useless ones like proof against disease and poison.


Has anyone had a chance to play with the Knives Eternal and determine what kind of firing pattern it has (is it like any other currently in the game or a totally new path/shape)?

I was curious about this as well and kept a close eye on the Lammania forums to find out. From what others reported, it is the same shot as the other force rune arms, but the shots don't spread out as much, making them less likely to hit walls when in a hallway.


Anyone know whether the Knives Eternal is based upon a Will save or Reflex save?

I don't know about this. It's piercing damage, not force, so it might be reflex instead of will. Not sure though.


Lastly, am I reading it correctly that the Knives Eternal will be upgradeable to have up to 2 red slots (Upgradeable - Primary Augment (Yellow, Blue, Red), Upgradeable - Secondary Augment (Green, Orange, Purple) ) ?

If you look at the actual item decriptions posted in the unofficial loot thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/447262-Unoffical-Loot-Thread) by Eth, it says the red, orange, and purple slots are for wespons and shields only. I would expect that rune arms are in their own category and not considered weapons, but I will be shocked and very pleased if they are.

Shrimpboy
09-25-2014, 02:09 PM
I am definitely going to include some of the harper tree. I'll probably drop a good portion of the arcanotechnician tree, in fact.

Sweet! Update Dubbell when you do, please. ^^

Oh yeah, I have more then enough slots in my setup, I just wanted to make sure if anyone used it that I didn't slot those vital ones in the set yet but the question marks are all slots of some kind.

From what I tested on Lamannia, that is correct. The shots are the same besides shot width, they even hit nearby enemies after you kill one. When I was on Lamannia before, it didn't allow red slots but I haven't gone back on since they released Vanguard and I'm going with the Wiki for now. The spellpower can always be slotted onto our main xbows, even if we lose about 7 damage per shot by doing so.

Nodoze
09-28-2014, 12:56 PM
...If you look at the actual item decriptions posted in the unofficial loot thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/447262-Unoffical-Loot-Thread) by Eth, it says the red, orange, and purple slots are for wespons and shields only. I would expect that rune arms are in their own category and not considered weapons, but I will be shocked and very pleased if they are.I will be very pleased as well... If you remember if/when you do get confirmation whether the rune arm has red capable slots or not let me know and I will try to update the wiki... Currently the run arm is listed as follows on the wiki:



Knives Eternal (http://ddowiki.com/edit/Item:Knives_Eternal?redlink=1) - Rune Arm (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rune_Arm), Bound to Character on Acquire (http://ddowiki.com/page/Bind) - Knife Shot, Maximum Charge Tier (http://ddowiki.com/page/Maximum_Charge_Tier): V, Spike Guard (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spike_Guard), Rune Arm Imbue (http://ddowiki.com/page/Rune_Arm_Imbue): Knife Shot VI, Impulse +150 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Impulse), Kinetic Lore XII (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Lore), Spiked (http://ddowiki.com/page/Spiked), Upgradeable - Primary Augment (Yellow, Blue, Red), Upgradeable - Secondary Augment (Green, Orange, Purple)


From the the following wiki page:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_23_named_items

Singular
09-28-2014, 07:57 PM
I am definitely going to include some of the harper tree. I'll probably drop a good portion of the arcanotechnician tree, in fact.



If you're in need of more slots, try to fit in some of the epic Necro gear. Every piece has two slots. If I go with the setup posted above, I'll end up with several empty slots because I've already got every augment covered, including the useless ones like proof against disease and poison.



I was curious about this as well and kept a close eye on the Lammania forums to find out. From what others reported, it is the same shot as the other force rune arms, but the shots don't spread out as much, making them less likely to hit walls when in a hallway.



I don't know about this. It's piercing damage, not force, so it might be reflex instead of will. Not sure though.



If you look at the actual item decriptions posted in the unofficial loot thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/447262-Unoffical-Loot-Thread) by Eth, it says the red, orange, and purple slots are for wespons and shields only. I would expect that rune arms are in their own category and not considered weapons, but I will be shocked and very pleased if they are.

Re: Harper Tree, this is what I've written on another thread:


From this page:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Harper_enhancements

I play a ranged artie, with 41 pts in BE. So that leaves 39 points out of it. I also put 3 pts into human for the damage boost and +1 con (unless my con is odd, then I put this somewhere else - changes as I level). I'll put them in the order I'd pick them, so you can see the AP cost.

Core 1: Agent of Good I (req. lvl1, 1AP): +1 to hit versus evil, +1 Universal Spell Power (1 pt)

Tier 1:

Harper Enchantment I: Your weapon gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus. You gain +20 to your maximum Spell Points. (2 AP)
Traveler's Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum hit points. (3 AP)

[that's 5 AP, moving on to Tier 2]

Versatile Adept I: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power. (3 AP)
Know the Angles: Antirequisite: Divine Might. You gain an Insight bonus to damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to ½ your Intelligence Modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. (Activation Cost: 21/18/15 spell points. Cooldown: 20 seconds) (3 AP)

NOTE: This next one is in Tier 2. If it stacks with Insightful Damage, it's totally worth it. If it doesn't, it's not. I'd much rather take a spell slot than spend AP. I have troubles believing it stacks, but it might. We totally could use the boost!

Strategic Combat II: You can use your Intelligence modifier for damage with Melee and Missile weapons. (2 AP)

[so ignoring Strategic Combat II, that's 11 AP]

Core 2: Harper Training I: Int or Cha or Dex. (1 AP). [I'm going to take Cha. Just kidding.]
Core 3: Agent of Good II: +2 to hit and damage versus evil, +5 Universal Spell Power. (1 AP)

Versatile Adept II: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power. (3 AP)
Int or Dex: +1 Intelligence or Dexterity (2 AP)

[At this point, it's only 15 AP, so we have to blow 5 AP. There are several ways you can do this. If Strat Com II stacks, then you'll have to take Strat Com I and II, costing 4 AP. You only need to blow 1 AP then, and anything will suffice. If you use a pet, then get the pet one: Harper's Leadership: Your hirelings, summoned, and charmed creatures gain +2/3/4 to all ability scores. In the event that Strat Com doesn't stack, I'd probably go with pet and skills or pet and energy saves. With Druid past lives and Augment Summoning, and this, the pet could be a total powerhouse of evil doom, for goodness!]

Ok, so that's 20 forced Aps :)

Core 4: Harper Training II: Int or Cha or Dex. (1 AP)
Versatile Adept III: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power. (3 AP)
Int or Dex: +1 Intelligence or Dexterity (2 AP)
Vigor of Life: +10 Positive Healing Amplification. -10% less damage from Negative Energy. (2 AP)

Throat Dagger: Damages an enemy from afar for 1d4+4 Piercing damage per character level. Damaged non-boss enemies can't cast spells for 6 seconds. (This Spell Like Ability can be Quickened or Enlarged for no extra cost, if you have those feats.) Higher ranks reduce the small spell point cost and reduce the cooldown. (3 AP) [NOTE: I really hope this one is buffed by impulse. If so, this power will be super totally awesome with an extra stop casters benefit]

We're now at 31 APs.

Core 5: Agent of Good III: +3 to hit and damage versus evil, +10 Universal Spell Power. (1 AP)

And that's as far as I'm going to go in this tree. The tier 5 stuff in BE are too good to give up. So 32 pts spent. That leaves me with 3 for human, making it 35 APs and therefore 4 left over - probably get the core of Arcanotech and the first tier of spell crit.

TRADE OFFS:

- loss of 3% spell crit. That's like missing 1 crit out of 33. So...not so bad.
- loss of 36 spell power. But gain of 37 spell power in this tree (all the above plus the +1 weapon enchantment adds 3 for us, b/c of BE).
- loss of doggie buffs. If you're going the puppet master route, and you have 3 druid past lives, augment summoning and the above bonus, you probably also want all the AT buffs you can get for your doggie. I don't know how that will help you in EE, but it certainly would make the puppie more survivable. I personally find that my doggie, who does not enjoy these benefits, dies in about 8 seconds in EE combat).
- loss of lightning bolt, and all the SLAs in AT that I don't use :)
- loss of palliative and critical admixture
- loss of +2 Int, but gain of + 4 Int
- gain of + 6 damage against evil
- gain of + 1 damage (included in above against evil; don't add twice), + 18 ranged power

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________

THOUGHTS:

So we get a really nice buff - adding half int to damage - a stacking +6 damage, +18 ranged and spell power, and 2 extra int (for an extra +1 damage, dc and more sp). For the xbow, that's something like a 10-25 % increase in dps, depending on your current output and int. That +1/2 int mod will be always running in combat, since the cool down is only 20 seconds, providing at least another +10 damage. Additionally, I have high hopes for Throat Dagger. It's going to be extremely useful, along with Prismatic Strike for stopping EE casters.

All in all, this is a nice replacement for the loss of BT. It's not going to make arties into moncher damage, but it's going to put us back up into the tier 2 category for dps output.

Edit: woops! I'll probably take Wand and Scroll Mastery over the crit. That will be 4 points total, so it works out perfectly.

Nodoze
09-29-2014, 04:51 AM
Re: Harper Tree, this is what I've written on another thread:Singular, Good to see you! Looks like the Artie pendulum is swinging back to Force so maybe us primarily Force focused Arties won't be in the minority any more!

CThruTheEgo
09-30-2014, 07:11 AM
If you remember if/when you do get confirmation whether the rune arm has red capable slots or not let me know and I will try to update the wiki.

I checked the fountain of necrotic might, which is where the new gear gets upgraded, and knives eternal has no red slot options, only blue/yellow for the first slot and green for the second.

Nodoze
09-30-2014, 12:38 PM
I checked the fountain of necrotic might, which is where the new gear gets upgraded, and knives eternal has no red slot options, only blue/yellow for the first slot and green for the second.Thanks for confirming! Though it is sad news I updated the ddowiki to reflect the current slots:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_23_named_items

Singular
09-30-2014, 08:01 PM
Singular, Good to see you! Looks like the Artie pendulum is swinging back to Force so maybe us primarily Force focused Arties won't be in the minority any more!

Thanks - you too!

Yeah, it's good! I pulled off a 4000 crit on Needle yesterday and I haven't even taken Overwhelming Critical yet. So that was good. I'm going to have to recalculate which does more damage output with all the added on damage and OC - Needle or TF. TF's stays more constant than Needle, which gains rapidly with added base damage.


I checked the fountain of necrotic might, which is where the new gear gets upgraded, and knives eternal has no red slot options, only blue/yellow for the first slot and green for the second.

Thank you for doing that but buuuu! I guess they don't want us to put in a ruby eye of whatever, b/c it wouldn't work with the shots, even though most of us just want the red slot for spell power. Arg!

Phaeton_Seraph
10-04-2014, 02:05 PM
The other problem with Shadowmail is the effort required to farm out the one with the proper spell power, and not to mention that it is Medium armor and will axe the evasion you would get in Shadowdancer. Not sure if I like those two options.

I didn't even realise that about the Shadowmail. I bought one on the AH, with Impulse. I was very lucky first time out.

It brings my Force SP up to 241. When I equip my crystal mystical Alchemical repeater, it brings it up to 262. Equipping the Glass Canon on top of that only brings it to 268.

My electrical is 262sp and 283 with my repeater.

I swap out repeaters depending what I'm doing, but I primarily cast. With 2279 spell points (thanks to the harper tree), I can throw a lot of 6sp SLAs. With Empower, Maximise, Heighten and Quicken permanently on those SLAs, they do impressive damage.


Is there a place to see what your spell crit is? Or do I have to go through my gear and count it myself?

Singular
10-05-2014, 05:01 AM
I didn't even realise that about the Shadowmail. I bought one on the AH, with Impulse. I was very lucky first time out.

It brings my Force SP up to 241. When I equip my crystal mystical Alchemical repeater, it brings it up to 262. Equipping the Glass Canon on top of that only brings it to 268.

My electrical is 262sp and 283 with my repeater.

I swap out repeaters depending what I'm doing, but I primarily cast. With 2279 spell points (thanks to the harper tree), I can throw a lot of 6sp SLAs. With Empower, Maximise, Heighten and Quicken permanently on those SLAs, they do impressive damage.


Is there a place to see what your spell crit is? Or do I have to go through my gear and count it myself?

I'm not a caster artie, but force-specked, here are my spell powers

w/fully charged rune arm:

w/Needle + erudition

271 for basically everything
354 force (ruby of force 138)
219 sonic
271 positive

w/thunderholme + ruby 138:

256 everything
348 force
213 sonic
280 positive

w/out rune arm:

231 Everything
314 Force
179 Sonic
231 Pos

225 Everything
308 Force
173 Sonic
240 Pos

(My sonic is different b/c of perform. Positive is different, too, b/c I'm wearing devotion +120).

To answer your question about crits: to my knowledge, we just have to calculate it. It's pretty easy though:

caster: 5%
mental toughness: 1%
Imp. MT: 1%
Epic MT: 1%
Epic Past lives: 3/6/9% (doesn't count for force!)
Enchantments: 1-4%
Item: max: 22%

(if you have sorc/wiz levels, those enchantments may double, depending)

So that's a max of 43% if you have the best items in the game. 34% for force. Oh! I think you can get +2% gear on top of that, making it 45% (from update 23 items).

Phaeton_Seraph
10-06-2014, 01:20 PM
Huh. Thanks for the reply Singular.


I didn't even realise that about mental toughness. It's good you pointed it out. I'm going to have to look through my guy to see what he's got going on. So to speak.

I do know it has wasted potential. I need a better helm and I need a new ring and belt. The big delay is finding a Speed item. I wish they'd go ahead and make an augment or add it to Cannith.

Singular
10-06-2014, 09:10 PM
Huh. Thanks for the reply Singular.


I didn't even realise that about mental toughness. It's good you pointed it out. I'm going to have to look through my guy to see what he's got going on. So to speak.

I do know it has wasted potential. I need a better helm and I need a new ring and belt. The big delay is finding a Speed item. I wish they'd go ahead and make an augment or add it to Cannith.

No worries.

What do you mean by "speed item"? If you mean movement speed, there are augments of striding - I use one on my artie.

Phaeton_Seraph
10-06-2014, 11:03 PM
No worries.

What do you mean by "speed item"? If you mean movement speed, there are augments of striding - I use one on my artie.

Striding isn't the same as Speed though, AFAIK. Striding is only running speed, isn't it?

Singular
10-07-2014, 12:16 AM
Striding isn't the same as Speed though, AFAIK. Striding is only running speed, isn't it?

Yeah. Oh, you're looking for something that will produce some haste effect, too? If you're using a repeater the difference it makes is pretty small, but Armor of Speed will do it. Otherwise, Needle has a 20% alacrity on it (but again, the difference is so small that most don't notice - I tested haste vrs AoS vrs Needle and got a difference of 4 bolts/min. But, someone told me that might be an artefact of my mouse button and not the actual tests - I didn't run them 30 or so times, just once each :) ).

Singular
10-17-2014, 11:39 PM
So for fun I switched over to LD to see how it was working out now. Prior to the update, I ran in it for a solo of EE Breaking the Ranks. It worked pretty well, and was easy enough to keep the kills going to keep the Blitz going. The one real problem I had with it was the lack of "omg, need burst damage now!" and had to rely on Ruin for that instead of Adrenaline.

So, tried again, but this time in EE Feast or Famine (and EE Trial by Fire). Less highs, but overall very steady damage output. It was easy to maintain the blitz during the entire quest - especially because it stacks very fast with IPS and EF (which was clearing rooms ridiculously fast). And, in LD, I have something like 12 EFs so I didn't use the shrine, just Blitzed through the quest, stopping to do the traps. The boss died in record time for me, faster than killing him on my Shiradisorc.

The one problem I noticed is that I became reluctant to kill mobs using my rune arm! hahaha, b/c I needed them for xbow targets to keep the blitz going.

Bottom line: LD can make for a very effective "kill everything" EE solo ED destiny.

CThruTheEgo
10-20-2014, 10:51 AM
So for fun I switched over to LD to see how it was working out now. Prior to the update, I ran in it for a solo of EE Breaking the Ranks. It worked pretty well, and was easy enough to keep the kills going to keep the Blitz going. The one real problem I had with it was the lack of "omg, need burst damage now!" and had to rely on Ruin for that instead of Adrenaline.

So, tried again, but this time in EE Feast or Famine (and EE Trial by Fire). Less highs, but overall very steady damage output. It was easy to maintain the blitz during the entire quest - especially because it stacks very fast with IPS and EF (which was clearing rooms ridiculously fast). And, in LD, I have something like 12 EFs so I didn't use the shrine, just Blitzed through the quest, stopping to do the traps. The boss died in record time for me, faster than killing him on my Shiradisorc.

The one problem I noticed is that I became reluctant to kill mobs using my rune arm! hahaha, b/c I needed them for xbow targets to keep the blitz going.

Bottom line: LD can make for a very effective "kill everything" EE solo ED destiny.

I have also made the switch to dreadnaught and have found the same things you have. IPS and endless fusilade guarantee you several stacks of blitz, and I also try to tone down my dps to get stacks going.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but advancing blows works with ranged. With endless fusilade it's fairly easy to get several stacks up.

Singular
10-20-2014, 11:42 PM
I have also made the switch to dreadnaught and have found the same things you have. IPS and endless fusilade guarantee you several stacks of blitz, and I also try to tone down my dps to get stacks going.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but advancing blows works with ranged. With endless fusilade it's fairly easy to get several stacks up.

Thanks, yeah, it was stacking faster than the Blitz. What was your damage spread like? Mine seemed to be very similar to Needle's normal crit range (500-900), but a touch higher, getting up to 1200, maybe 1300. I didn't see anything really high - the previous Blitz, U22 and lower, gave me crits just like Adrenaline shots.

btw, what are your adrenaline shots up to now? I've had a 4400 one on a non-helpless orange named and a 4800 on a nerve venomed one (both w/Needle - the TH mortal fear is better for rapidly killing mobs, but it feels really nice to see the huge damage numbers Needle can make :) )

CThruTheEgo
10-21-2014, 09:16 AM
Thanks, yeah, it was stacking faster than the Blitz. What was your damage spread like? Mine seemed to be very similar to Needle's normal crit range (500-900), but a touch higher, getting up to 1200, maybe 1300. I didn't see anything really high - the previous Blitz, U22 and lower, gave me crits just like Adrenaline shots.

With a full stack of blitz my base damage is around 300 with crits around 600-800. With a full stack of blitz, archer's focus, and damage boost base damage is around 600-700 with crits between 1200-1400.


btw, what are your adrenaline shots up to now? I've had a 4400 one on a non-helpless orange named and a 4800 on a nerve venomed one (both w/Needle - the TH mortal fear is better for rapidly killing mobs, but it feels really nice to see the huge damage numbers Needle can make :) )

I don't remember, to be honest. I switched to dreadnaught shortly after U23 and didn't look back. The consistency of higher damage is what I like about blitz. Fury gives you great spike damage, but mediocre damage the rest of the time. And adrenaline charges don't always regenerate as quickly as I'd like them to. :)

I also haven't used Needle since I started playing Dubbell again, only Thunder-Forged.

Singular
10-21-2014, 11:36 PM
With a full stack of blitz my base damage is around 300 with crits around 600-800. With a full stack of blitz, archer's focus, and damage boost base damage is around 600-700 with crits between 1200-1400.

I don't remember, to be honest. I switched to dreadnaught shortly after U23 and didn't look back. The consistency of higher damage is what I like about blitz. Fury gives you great spike damage, but mediocre damage the rest of the time. And adrenaline charges don't always regenerate as quickly as I'd like them to. :)

I also haven't used Needle since I started playing Dubbell again, only Thunder-Forged.

Nice numbers :)

I haven't given up on Needle just yet! I have this feeling that at some magical damage add-on, it will surpass TH damage output. One thing I have been noticing, though, is that on higher level mobs, TH seems to do more base damage - I can't help but wonder if some kind of power scaling is going on here, as with rune arms.

Anyways, I lost Blitz twice in the Druid's chain b/c mortal fear was just obliterating mobs. It made the quests go by a lot faster! So it might be useful to use a lower damaging repeater until you get a few stacks of Blitz going - maybe that's why I had no troubles keeping it up while using Needle.

kmoustakas
10-23-2014, 04:41 AM
I have also made the switch to dreadnaught and have found the same things you have. IPS and endless fusilade guarantee you several stacks of blitz, and I also try to tone down my dps to get stacks going.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but advancing blows works with ranged. With endless fusilade it's fairly easy to get several stacks up.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't advancing blows melee only?

CThruTheEgo
10-23-2014, 05:45 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't advancing blows melee only?

That's what the description says, but I've confirmed that it applies to ranged also. As you gain stacks, you can see your added damage increase in the weapon details of you inventory, and it decreases when you lose the stacks.

Nodoze
10-26-2014, 09:23 PM
That's what the description says, but I've confirmed that it applies to ranged also. As you gain stacks, you can see your added damage increase in the weapon details of you inventory, and it decreases when you lose the stacks.Thanks for confirming and keeping up the builds.