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thegreatneil
03-27-2014, 07:01 PM
What is the DC on the mines and grenades that can be made?

PolarisNC
03-27-2014, 07:25 PM
What is the DC on the mines and grenades that can be made?

DDO Wiki lists DC's for grenades that run from 12 to 28. DC's for mines apparently depend on your Disable Device skill - but those calculations look out of date to me, as they refer to the old Mechanic I and II enhancements. Hopefully you can find some up-to date entries in Coldin's Trapmaking Guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/259276-Coldin-s-Trapmaking-Guide)

Tscheuss
03-27-2014, 07:48 PM
The DC's of mines are also affected by enhancements which can increase the percentage of your DD that applies. :)

thegreatneil
03-27-2014, 09:44 PM
DDO Wiki lists DC's for grenades that run from 12 to 28. DC's for mines apparently depend on your Disable Device skill - but those calculations look out of date to me, as they refer to the old Mechanic I and II enhancements. Hopefully you can find some up-to date entries in Coldin's Trapmaking Guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/259276-Coldin-s-Trapmaking-Guide)

The DC's of mines are also affected by enhancements which can increase the percentage of your DD that applies. :)

This would make my traps a DC of 105. That does not seem right either.

What I'm trying to find is the formula I guess.

Tscheuss
03-28-2014, 01:40 AM

This would make my traps a DC of 105. That does not seem right either.

What I'm trying to find is the formula I guess.

Wow. You must have a very high DD. ;)

CThruTheEgo
04-02-2014, 10:05 AM
The Mechanic tier 2 enhancement "improved traps" states that

Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

That's the closest to a "formula" that I can find. So base DC is half your DD, but can be improved with this enhancement.

I believe magical traps still just have the DC of the scroll you use to make them, which means they are completely useless.

thegreatneil
04-02-2014, 07:08 PM
I believe magical traps still just have the DC of the scroll you use to make them, which means they are completely useless.

Then something is off with the Tier two ability Improved Traps.

For me they are hardly "useless".

CThruTheEgo
04-03-2014, 05:45 AM
Then something is off with the Tier two ability Improved Traps.

For me they are hardly "useless".

Magical traps are the ones where you use a scroll to make it and when the trap goes off it casts that spell (such as grease, sleep, hold person, etc). Are those the traps that you are saying are effective? And at what level do you use them that they are effective?

Improved traps might also affect magical traps, but it specifically states elemental traps, not magical. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a description didn't match its effect in DDO. :)

thegreatneil
04-03-2014, 06:36 AM
Magical traps are the ones where you use a scroll to make it and when the trap goes off it casts that spell (such as grease, sleep, hold person, etc). Are those the traps that you are saying are effective? And at what level do you use them that they are effective?

Improved traps might also affect magical traps, but it specifically states elemental traps, not magical. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a description didn't match its effect in DDO. :)

I use traps in Haverdasher , its hard and stuff.

Anyway...

Ignore the video quality was having issue in fullscreen mode.

EE Thrill of the hunt (not shown, but you can see the mobs are CR 62)

http://youtu.be/Tttts37mGVI
Edit: I edited the video down, cus I died in the next room. Ha.

I know how they work, but I want to know the specific DC's I can get.
Cant use them in public ( or in the arena, I tried) so I can't have someone tell me.

CThruTheEgo
04-03-2014, 08:00 AM
I know how they work.

I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

As far as the DC, I can't offer any more than what I already have. I've looked everywhere I can think of and the info that's out there is clearly outdated. My best guess is that imrpoved traps is applying to magical traps. Enjoy it while it lasts, I guess.

Onetunge
04-04-2014, 02:49 AM
Trapmaking needs to be reworked completely to be of at least a little use in epic content.

On ddo wiki there's a list of how DC used to be calculated:

Elemental Traps

Normal Rogue : Disable Device Skill* 1/3
Mechanic I Rogue : Disable Device Skill* 1/2
Mechanic II Rogue : Disable Device Skill * 2/3

Magical Traps

Normal Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier
Mechanic I Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier + 2
Mechanic II Rogue: 10 + Spell Level + Intelligence Modifier + 4

I guess you could make a conection between this and:
Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

So my guess is that with all ranks in Elemental traps, your traps have DC equal to your DD.

Calaquende
01-06-2015, 11:54 PM
This thread is old, but has anyone figured out how to calculate the DCs for magical traps? I don't have the enhancements but I just built some web traps and they worked OK for some CR 22 mobs. The video above shows them working on CR 62 mobs, so there must be a new calculation and it most likely used Disable skill. Anyway, anyone know?

TheBlueFox
01-07-2015, 01:21 PM
Man, I would love to know if these traps have become relevant again.

I mean, when deepwood sniper got merged into deepwood stalker and actually became good, I was hoping these traps would also get a redo in their DCs. Up until now I haven't checked. I'd also love to know what the DCs can reach with something like sleep traps or hold persons, would make soloing easier, Noismaker + sleep trap = use lever and walk away

Saekee
01-07-2015, 02:09 PM
check out some of nokowi (https://www.ddo.com/forums/member.php/497284-nokowi)'s vids. He was using web traps and capturing all EE mobs without any difficulty. It just requires the mechanic tree enhancement that buffs it around your disable device skill. Yes, the DC gets ridiculous as any DC would that is based around a skill, not an ability or character level.

Tier 2 mechanic:
Improved Traps: +1 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

Have fun with grease too, just make sure to wear the right shoes...

The only 'drawback' to improved traps is that it requires points away from harper, something INT rogues do not do lightly.

Saekee
01-07-2015, 02:13 PM

and post 35:

TheBlueFox
01-07-2015, 03:15 PM
check out some of nokowi (https://www.ddo.com/forums/member.php/497284-nokowi)'s vids. He was using web traps and capturing all EE mobs without any difficulty. It just requires the mechanic tree enhancement that buffs it around your disable device skill. Yes, the DC gets ridiculous as any DC would that is based around a skill, not an ability or character level.

Tier 2 mechanic:
Improved Traps: +1 to the save DC's of Alchemical Trap Attacks and Magical Traps. Elemental Traps that you place now have a DC equal to 65%/80%/100% of your Disable Device Skill instead of 50%.

Have fun with grease too, just make sure to wear the right shoes...

The only 'drawback' to improved traps is that it requires points away from harper, something INT rogues do not do lightly.

Okay, so thats +1 to the DC of alchemical trap attacks, meaning those spell-like abilities you get as you level. And +1 to the DC of magical traps, but...whats the DC of those to begin with? My disable device skill is somewhere in the high 60's to low 70s, so...thats freakin awesome, but I don't know what the formula is for the magical traps.

The spell-like ability traps get a +1...that doesn't seem like a super buff to them, isn't it +1/2/3? or is seriously just +1... I believe the DC for most of those is 10-16 + Half Rogue level + int mod, figuring a 40 int, thats +15 from int. Level 20 rogue gives a +10, so thats just 35 - 41, with a +1 thats 36 - 42. That's kinda... meh?

But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)

CThruTheEgo
01-07-2015, 03:38 PM
But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)

The actual DC formula is still unknown for certain. But based on his testing, nokowi concluded that it follows the same formula as elemental traps – 50/65/80/100% of your disable device skill depending on how many ranks you have in improved traps. That's the best info that anyone has been able to come up with about the actual DC. Regardless of what the actual formula is, magical traps are now very much viable and seem to be significantly improved by the improved traps enhancement.

Saekee
01-07-2015, 03:39 PM
Okay, so thats +1 to the DC of alchemical trap attacks, meaning those spell-like abilities you get as you level. And +1 to the DC of magical traps, but...whats the DC of those to begin with? My disable device skill is somewhere in the high 60's to low 70s, so...thats freakin awesome, but I don't know what the formula is for the magical traps.

The spell-like ability traps get a +1...that doesn't seem like a super buff to them, isn't it +1/2/3? or is seriously just +1... I believe the DC for most of those is 10-16 + Half Rogue level + int mod, figuring a 40 int, thats +15 from int. Level 20 rogue gives a +10, so thats just 35 - 41, with a +1 thats 36 - 42. That's kinda... meh?

But what is it for the spell traps I wonder. 10 + spell level + 1/2rogue level + int mod + 1 enhancement. Thats 36 - 39, which can't be right. (figuring 40 int)

The wik (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enhancements)i lists the alchemical traps as follows:

Tanglefoot: Cooldown: 30 seconds. Throws a flask of caustic liquid at your enemy, which explodes into a sticky mess. Enemies caught within by the goo puddle take 4d6 acid damage every 2 seconds (Reflex DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Half) and are slowed (Reflex DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates).
Thunderstone: Cooldown: 12 seconds. Throws an alchemical charge at your enemy. Deals 4d6/6d6/8d6 damage and dazes in area. (Fort DC 12/14/16 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates daze).
Ooze Flask: Cooldown: 12 seconds. You throw a flask at your enemy that contains concentrated grey ooze secretions. Deals 4d8/8d8/12d8 acid damage and reduces the Armor Class of your opponent by 2/4/8 for 30 seconds. (Fort DC 10 + Half Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier Negates sunder).
Time Bomb: Cooldown: 2 minutes. Creates an alchemical charge at your feet. Deals 10/25/50 sonic and 10/25/50 fire damage per rogue level to all nearby enemies after 6 seconds, and knocks them to the ground. (Reflex DC 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier for half damage. Balance DC 10 + Rogue Level + Intelligence Modifier to Negate knockdown).

So yes, some are half rogue level, others are full rogue level, and they all use the bonus from INT modifier. So a level 20 pure rogue with 50 INT using the tier 5 time bomb would have a damage DC of 50 plus that lousy bonus of 1 for DC of 51.

I am not sure if one gains one more towards the DC for each epic level. I do not believe so.

Basically, the only one that would be relevant in epic play is Time Bomb since its damage scales per level; that comes to about 2000 fire/sonic damage. It is tier 5 so one cannot assassinate.

The advantage to these kinds of traps is that they are AOE and can be placed while stealthed. So a very patient pure Rogue mechanic theoretically can kill everything with traps and never be discovered.

The regular traps like Web, though, are super effective for any rogue with the basic Tier 2 enhancement.

Saekee
01-07-2015, 03:43 PM
The actual DC formula is still unknown for certain. But based on his testing, nokowi concluded that it follows the same formula as elemental traps – 50/65/80/100% of your disable device skill depending on how many ranks you have in improved traps. That's the best info that anyone has been able to come up with about the actual DC. Regardless of what the actual formula is, magical traps are now very much viable and seem to be significantly improved by the improved traps enhancement.

thx Cthru but that is not for the alchemical I presume?

CThruTheEgo
01-07-2015, 04:20 PM
thx Cthru but that is not for the alchemical I presume?

I don't know tbh. I've never played a mechanic. My name for a repeater based trapper is artificer. :D At the end of his post TheBlueFox asked about spell trap DCs, so just offering what little I know. I should have edited his quote so it was more clear what my comment was about.

TheBlueFox
01-07-2015, 06:00 PM
Is there any way to see what the enemy is rolling against your effects? I don't suppose it shows up in the combat log, does it. Since its not YOUR effect but rather the effect of a different entity not connected to your character.

Calaquende
01-08-2015, 12:29 AM
The actual DC formula is still unknown for certain. But based on his testing, nokowi concluded that it follows the same formula as elemental traps – 50/65/80/100% of your disable device skill depending on how many ranks you have in improved traps. That's the best info that anyone has been able to come up with about the actual DC. Regardless of what the actual formula is, magical traps are now very much viable and seem to be significantly improved by the improved traps enhancement.

I just rejiggered my Assassin to put 8 points into Mechanic in order to get 3 levels and improved traps, and it's looking like the DC is based on disable device. It stinks that for some reason there's no way to see the DC, but I just ran 2 Chain 3 quests on EE and the webs were awfully sticky.

peng
01-08-2015, 02:30 PM
After reading this thread I'm kinda tempted to roll up a rogue who is always sneaking and only uses traps/mines. No weapons. Ever. However, the amount of trap parts needed would be... mind boggling.

Chai
01-16-2015, 12:20 PM
Traps have worked, even in EE, for quite a while now. The issue isn't the traps, their DC, or their relevance, its the community and how many people play to go toe to toe with mobs as quickly as possible. Traps are stationary, so while you are setting a few up, the rest of the party is plowing forward to meet the mobs which get taken out more quickly than it takes to utilize the traps. As such you will want to be playing with a party that pulls mobs back rather than rushes forward, or be soloing.

Tlorrd
06-25-2017, 09:00 AM
Traps have worked, even in EE, for quite a while now. The issue isn't the traps, their DC, or their relevance, its the community and how many people play to go toe to toe with mobs as quickly as possible. Traps are stationary, so while you are setting a few up, the rest of the party is plowing forward to meet the mobs which get taken out more quickly than it takes to utilize the traps. As such you will want to be playing with a party that pulls mobs back rather than rushes forward, or be soloing.

Or depending on the quest, you can sneak ahead and lay traps so that when the group gets to them, they'll trigger against the mobs. A lot of game knowledge is needed for this.