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View Full Version : Charisma based bard / PDK synergy



Eth
03-24-2014, 04:52 AM
Has anyone come up or tried a build that uses this synergy?
Was thinking about something like ESOS swinging max cha PDK bard (can use char modifier for attack and damage).

At least on paper it sounds like fun to soundburst stun / hold mobs and then blitz off them with a big sword.

Is it possible to get decent DCs in Evo and/or Enchant, while running in dreadnaught and having at least the minimum feats for melee (cleave, great cleave, imp. crit)?

Maybe even pure bard for heal and wail...

Fedora1
03-24-2014, 06:11 AM
I never play bards, but I noticed that PDKs should make excellent bards. Not to go off-topic but might even make good Sorc/EK.

cru121
03-24-2014, 07:52 AM
You can get your strength easily at least 13 points higher than your charisma (skaldic rage, primal scream, tenser's). If you drop the Cha to hit/dmg, you don't have to be ugly, you can swing any weapon, get overwhelming crit, and you can dip warpriest for even more strength, sacrificing 2 DC in the process (1 from lower starting charisma, 1 for capstone).

The question is if you can make the DC high enough.

Also, there should be a twistable soundburst SLA available in the redesigned divine ED somewhere, so you're probably better off being a bladeforged monkadin like everyone else.

Sokól
03-24-2014, 08:17 AM
Has anyone come up or tried a build that uses this synergy?
Was thinking about something like ESOS swinging max cha PDK bard (can use char modifier for attack and damage).

At least on paper it sounds like fun to soundburst stun / hold mobs and then blitz off them with a big sword.

Is it possible to get decent DCs in Evo and/or Enchant, while running in dreadnaught and having at least the minimum feats for melee (cleave, great cleave, imp. crit)?

Maybe even pure bard for heal and wail...

Seen a few in heroics and they have impressed me so far, I think you would need at least 3 sorc past lives to make it work at endgame though...

unbongwah
03-24-2014, 08:51 AM
It's too bad CKT doesn't work w/falchions (or scimitars), since TF falchions seem to be the way to go now.

Cardtrick
03-24-2014, 09:29 AM
It's too bad CKT doesn't work w/falchions (or scimitars), since TF falchions seem to be the way to go now.

This is exactly what stopped me from making a build like this. I enjoy playing builds that are effective, but flavorful. In other words, I like things that are a little off the beaten path, but not gimped.

Unfortunately, I gave up on the CHA-based PDK melee bard idea because greatswords (except eSOS) are just in a terrible place in the game right now. There's Whirlwind while leveling, which is nice. But other than that . . . there's nothing much that's reasonably easy to acquire and reasonably effective in the ML16 - ML24 area. Even a Calomel Greatsword from the Cannith challenges would be enough to make me reconsider, but for whatever reason, that's not an option. The poor base crit profile is a nearly insurmountable problem without excellent named weapon options.

I already have one greatsword user, an old 18/2 Warforged Favored Soul / Paladin. Even with high STR and CHA, Divine Might, Tier 5 warpriest enhancements to greatsword . . . the damage output (disregarding destinies, of course) is terrible. My main TR project character, currently on a sort-of-gimpy acrobat barbarian past life build, was doing more damage at level 12 with an ML8 Theurgic Stave when he got staff specialization than the greatsword user was doing in the epic levels. (I know, because I was alternating between them. I'm embarrassed to take the favored soul into groups, and am looking forward to TRing him when I get more time -- greatswords just aren't worthwhile if you don't have an eSOS.)

So anyway, to summarize: there is definitely some nice synergy here, but it requires using greatswords; greatswords are significantly worse than falchions as base weapons and lack a variety of decent named options to make up for the lackluster base critical profile. It's a shame, because there are two character archetypes that are clearly intended to use greatswords -- melee PDK and melee warforged favored souls -- but the available gear makes them much weaker than they ought to be. I think it's an overreaction to how dominant the eSOS was/is.

unbongwah
03-24-2014, 10:20 AM
Rather than pure bard, I was considering a PDK variant on Ghoststriker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435732-Ghostriker-s-build), which swaps some of the less important feats for PA/CL/GC/IC:S. DPS still mostly comes from EA+Energy Burst; you can just melee a bit while spells are on CD or to finish off weak mobs. If you don't want to LR to get rid of ftr lvl, ftr 2 instead of monk 2 is okay, though you lose Evasion etc.

Cardtrick
03-24-2014, 10:33 AM
Rather than pure bard, I was considering a PDK variant on Ghoststriker (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435732-Ghostriker-s-build), which swaps some of the less important feats for PA/CL/GC/IC:S. DPS still mostly comes from EA+Energy Burst; you can just melee a bit while spells are on CD or to finish off weak mobs. If you don't want to LR to get rid of ftr lvl, ftr 2 instead of monk 2 is okay, though you lose Evasion etc.

That's really intriguing -- I hope you post the build somewhere if you put it together. It seems like it could maybe be an updated take on the old Soul Survivor (good physical protection, combination of light-based and melee DPS). I definitely want to try some sort of light-based divine nuker once the next patch hits (with the divine ED revisions). I had been thinking about some kind of Morninglord build, but having trouble working something up that I'm happy with.

giftie
03-24-2014, 01:19 PM
I have a pure PDK Spellsinger, though I went sword and orb for Celestia instead (Twinblade during heroics). Works fine with a greatsword too, but Enchantment Focus and slotting devotion was more important to me. She's currently on hold until Exalted Angel revamp lands, when I'll switch over to that.

I was planning to reach DC 60 (with self-buffs and ship, but without pots) at level 28 as of U20. Thunder forged weapons would get it higher, and Exalted Angel revamp should bring another +3 from Transcendental Magic (but -2 CHA outside of Fatesinger).

I think I devoted 4 feats to melee (THF chain and EWP:BS, I was planning to test switching EWP:BS to IC:S since Celestia might give glancing blows anyway), rest to IE, meta-magics (Quicken, Heighten and Emp Heal), and SF:Ench x 3.

Casting is definitely sufficient for EH (I'm holding off EEs until I can reach at least DC 60, so can't comment on that). Melee damage was okay in most groups, but trivial when compared to LD centered kensais - but incidentally, the blitzers appreciated the heals, buffs and CC more than any token DPS on my part.

While a fun experience, I think Drow is a better platform for Bard, whether going pure or an Avatar of Eilistraee-style build.