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View Full Version : Evil is under rated



JKissel
03-22-2014, 08:39 PM
We need A ANTI PLADINE for an Iconic hero

lyrecono
03-23-2014, 03:57 PM
a black guard?
not likely
no playable evil alignment allowed by turbine.
For good reasons

Memnir
03-23-2014, 04:17 PM
No we don't.

Uska
03-23-2014, 04:33 PM
No we don't there is zero point to doing so, also they have stated they wont be adding evil but they could change their minds but why? It would only add something that jerks would try to use as en excuse for griefing in a quest.

Hilltrot
03-23-2014, 04:53 PM
First the Blackguard as a prestige class sucks. Think of a paladin with all the spells which don't help a fighter. Cause serious wounds 3 times per day going to help you - not. Since never is when a player says I wish my fighter could cause disease. A pathetic skeleton following you around. You're meleeing. It's not like this is going to help you.

Ok, let's say they rewrite the class to make it "useful". Then what? You're evil but still running around helping people in quests? Elminster has no problem working with you. And the Purple Dragons happily give the Blackguard powerful magic? Oh, and that paladin and silver chalice favored soul has no problem grouping with you?

Ok, let's say that you actually manage to overcome how an evil blackguard can even fit as a player character. Do you actually know what evil is in D&D? Evil is not being a self-serving POS that most people in the world are. It's not the cop who lies on the stand to get someone he believes to be guilty, convicted. (Believe it or not, this is actually considered good in D&D.) Evil is not the person who cut you off in traffic. Evil is not your boss who fired you because he doesn't like you. In D&D evil is truly evil.

So your Lawful Evil Blackguard owns some slaves. Of course he does - you don't expect him to actually pay for the house and armor to be cleaned. (or god forbid, he do it himself.) His slaves are starting to get uppity. They just haven't been groveling enough, so you buy some new slaves. And as a demonstration to the new slaves as to what happens when you don't grovel enough, you . . .

I would go into more detail but I would get an infraction or two or three. But I guess I would get to go into more detail after Turbine revised its EULA to support the your very bad idea of a player character blackguard.

I think you are underrating what evil is.

zwiebelring
03-23-2014, 05:03 PM
Well, since Paladin needs to be lawful good and Blackguard needs to be any evil, even non good alignments had benefit of divine/unholy grace. That and Freedom of Movement on spell list as lvl. 4 Blackguard spell. And of course you need to have a way of free LR from lvl. 20 paladin into Blackguard to get maximum benefits. ;)

I so wished to just kill Coyle, then raise him after completion or Ana likewise... but we can't.

JKissel
03-24-2014, 08:33 PM
Just to be clear here , My original post was actually a bit of levity not a request for some sanctimonious & condescending Lecture on the Essence of Evil... Having Live for a half a century which included a decade in the Military & 2 degrees in Cultural Anthropology I have seen my share of REAL Evil... Further more Having been a RPG Enthusiast for so long I remember playing a little game that was a simple set of rules for miniatures that to my great pleasure blossomed into what we all now know as D&D, I have been privileged to play with some astounding DM's that could make the GAME flow & be perceived with only their Imaginations, a pencil & Paper , & of course a set of dice. Now that I have Digressed into a Lecture of my own I feel it necessary to say I have Played "EVIL" characters, some by choice others by Design of the DM (alignment change Items or curses) Including An Anti Paladine .When faced with such a challenge I endeavored to persevere... Reading my Best of Dragon Magazine Vol 2 (which included not only an in depth break down of the Anti Paladine but extremely concise description of the Politics of Hell) to be the Best Bad Guy as I could be... So in conclusion now that I have no doubt violated nearly all rules of syntax & quite possibly made some people angry (Oh Well) I say this... IT ONLY A FREAKING GAME!!! AND if we can have Skeletons & any other number of Freaking supposedly Evil companions following us around OR innumerable amounts of anarchic Items to choose from ... WHY CANT WE BE EVIL??

Memnir
03-24-2014, 10:40 PM
WHY CANT WE BE EVIL??Because, as they said at one point during the 05 beta, the Devs want us to be the Heroes. The Good Guys, coming to the rescue and saving the day. Narratively, that was the role they wanted us to play, and thus that is the role we fulfill in the stories they want to tell via our participation.

In short, they are the DM - and they decided Evil was a restricted alignment. We have to abide by it because it's just one of dozens of house-rules Turbine put in place, like any DM does.

Teh_Troll
03-24-2014, 11:03 PM
This game needs an Iconic Troll hero, besides me of course.

Uska
03-25-2014, 12:08 AM
Just to be clear here , My original post was actually a bit of levity not a request for some sanctimonious & condescending Lecture on the Essence of Evil... Having Live for a half a century which included a decade in the Military & 2 degrees in Cultural Anthropology I have seen my share of REAL Evil... Further more Having been a RPG Enthusiast for so long I remember playing a little game that was a simple set of rules for miniatures that to my great pleasure blossomed into what we all now know as D&D, I have been privileged to play with some astounding DM's that could make the GAME flow & be perceived with only their Imaginations, a pencil & Paper , & of course a set of dice. Now that I have Digressed into a Lecture of my own I feel it necessary to say I have Played "EVIL" characters, some by choice others by Design of the DM (alignment change Items or curses) Including An Anti Paladine .When faced with such a challenge I endeavored to persevere... Reading my Best of Dragon Magazine Vol 2 (which included not only an in depth break down of the Anti Paladine but extremely concise description of the Politics of Hell) to be the Best Bad Guy as I could be... So in conclusion now that I have no doubt violated nearly all rules of syntax & quite possibly made some people angry (Oh Well) I say this... IT ONLY A FREAKING GAME!!! AND if we can have Skeletons & any other number of Freaking supposedly Evil companions following us around OR innumerable amounts of anarchic Items to choose from ... WHY CANT WE BE EVIL??


Because there is no point to being evil in ddo other than being a jerk maybe. and in nearly 40 years of playing pnp I can count on one hand the number of times where I saw a game where it worked out well for everyone's enjoyment when evil characters were allowed.

Uska
03-25-2014, 12:09 AM
This game needs an Iconic Troll hero, besides me of course.

Nah one is enough :)

Gizeh
03-25-2014, 01:19 AM
I agree that allowing an evil alignment in DDO would only make sense if there were different possible quest outcomes based on the group's actions, but that argument is besides the point here.

Both Pale Master (basically DDO's version of a Lich player character) and Assassin are already available, even though their pnp counterparts require the character to be evil. Thus there is no reason to dismiss the idea of introducing a Blackguard to DDO merely based on the alignment restrictions in pnp D&D.

Oliphant
04-02-2014, 11:45 PM
I would like chaotically aligned paladins or lawfully aligned bards. Or a true neutral option for both. Because paladin bards..

Powskier
04-06-2014, 12:20 PM
This game needs an Iconic Troll hero, besides me of course.


Just to be clear here , My original post was actually a bit of levity not a request for some sanctimonious & condescending Lecture on the Essence of Evil... Having Live for a half a century which included a decade in the Military & 2 degrees in Cultural Anthropology I have seen my share of REAL Evil... Further more Having been a RPG Enthusiast for so long I remember playing a little game that was a simple set of rules for miniatures that to my great pleasure blossomed into what we all now know as D&D, I have been privileged to play with some astounding DM's that could make the GAME flow & be perceived with only their Imaginations, a pencil & Paper , & of course a set of dice. Now that I have Digressed into a Lecture of my own I feel it necessary to say I have Played "EVIL" characters, some by choice others by Design of the DM (alignment change Items or curses) Including An Anti Paladine .When faced with such a challenge I endeavored to persevere... Reading my Best of Dragon Magazine Vol 2 (which included not only an in depth break down of the Anti Paladine but extremely concise description of the Politics of Hell) to be the Best Bad Guy as I could be... So in conclusion now that I have no doubt violated nearly all rules of syntax & quite possibly made some people angry (Oh Well) I say this... IT ONLY A FREAKING GAME!!! AND if we can have Skeletons & any other number of Freaking supposedly Evil companions following us around OR innumerable amounts of anarchic Items to choose from ... WHY CANT WE BE EVIL??

evil was great option for gameplay diversity back then

Franke
04-06-2014, 01:27 PM
Ahh, those occasions when evil characters were allowed in pnp games I was involved in.....it was always great fun when there was a common foe, no holds barred warfare against your enemies.

But when the focus was lost it never ended well. ;)

Dendrix
04-06-2014, 01:29 PM
We need A ANTI PLADINE for an Iconic hero

No we don't.
This is the most stupid and offensive suggestion that keeps coming up.

Why? "because I am evil, I am justified in griefing you"

Uska
04-06-2014, 09:14 PM
evil was great option for gameplay diversity back then

No it was just people wanting an excuse to be a JERK

humbleroller
04-06-2014, 09:57 PM
Where is my Necro Cleric ?
I want a Unholy Palemaster character Cleric to be evil. Im so sick of being nice.

zwiebelring
04-07-2014, 06:03 AM
As long as there is no campaign mode, where you could choose between good or evil, evil alignment has no value in DDO.

NPCs don't react to your alignment, quests don't react to it, so why have it at all?

Funny though, it made characters immune to Blasphemy in ToD, if it was by the rules. No more Boots of Anchoring needed^^.

However, evil alignment has no ingame value. The moral on top makes evil characters treated nicely by NPCs, who seek for help, very stupid. As long as DDO is not sandboxing, evil alignment is just useless except for flavor and since this is tied to imagination, just imagine your character is evil and done with it.

The Iconic Races made a beginning, though. The Lord of Blades sends you out. Not for helping others, but for superiority. If there was anything like a different quest campaign, evil alignment could be useful or an improvement (and if that happens, I want to play a Thayan character, Knight and/or Wizard. How cool was that?).

sdrocky
04-07-2014, 06:18 AM
This game needs an Iconic Troll hero, besides me of course.

Ohh ohhh ohh . i so wanna TR into a troll.

Oh wait. we have one. One is enough. either on or under the bridge one troll is enough.......

stoerm
04-07-2014, 08:49 AM
Mr. Ed is back?

This is another topic that needs a sticky.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/215641-Why-are-there-still-issues-with-choosing-Chaotic-Evil-alignment
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/421893-Can-You-Become-Lawful-Evil
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/258879-Evil
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/364507-why-we-can-t-be-evil
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/267327-Evil-allignment
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/349230-Evil-Characters
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/290968-Why-are-there-now-Evil-alinement
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/170621-Why-can-t-we-play-Evil-Characters
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/300043-evil-alignment-FOR-PLAYERS-When
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/234616-Chaotic-evil-player-characters
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/274179-Evil-characters
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/346074-Evil
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/293238-Umm-Evil
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/287337-Why-no-Evil-Alignments
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/183838-The-case-for-EVIL

stoerm
04-07-2014, 09:33 AM
2 degrees in Cultural Anthropology I have seen my share of REAL Evil

I know people in academia so I've heard enough to steer clear.