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Makkuroi
03-22-2014, 04:20 AM
Hi all,

Im planning for my next life on my caster, and Im considering 18/2 fvs/monk or 17/2/1 cleric/monk with trapskills. The problem is, how do I incorporate trapskills into a clonk without totally ruining the feat setup?

feats would be like

stunning first
twf
itwf
gtwf
maximize
(empower)
quicken
PL:wiz
evo focus
adept of forms
master of forms
grandmaster of forms

looking at this feat list, its impossible to take rogue at lvl 1, since I cant take two (or even one) of these feats with a lvl 1 rogue and 14 starting dex.

Solution would be either take arti instead of rogue (can take metamagics at 1) or take rogue, but at a later level. Skillpoints are rather short (2 from cleric, 2-3 from int, 1 from human). Rogue has clearly better enhancements that arti for one level splash, arti has spellpoints and a lever-pulling dog.

What would you do?

Lonnbeimnech
03-22-2014, 07:46 AM
What would you do?

Take cleric at level 1 to take meta magic feats, take the rogue level at 2, slightly dump search and use the find traps spell to make up the difference.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Find_Traps

Toro12
03-22-2014, 08:37 AM
That is a problem I've come across with a trapping divine.
I'd say go arti @1 for the metas.
I completely disagree with rogues having better EnH at 1 than arti especially since you seem to still be looking for a caster focus. (All the metas).
Arcanotech with +USP per point spent , + spell points, some +crit and a weak but nice kicker SLA that at worst give a nice cheap ranged pulling option

I'd probably consider dropping the evo focus. Tough to justify 1dc for a feat slot IMO.
Unless your going whole hog PM or insta kill when you need to take any DC boost you can get.

I think you'd be much better served going heighten than sf:evo

giftie
03-22-2014, 11:18 AM
That's 11 (+1) feats, and a Human with 2 Monk bonus feats would only get 10 heroic feats, so I would assume you're taking Epic feats into account. But doing so leaves you 1-2 epics feat slots unaccounted for, solving your problem. Add Dodge or Toughness to the list, and take that and PL: Wiz at level 1.

If you don't include epic feats, you'll run into trouble for another reason. ITWF would only be available once your +3 DEX tome kicks in at level 11. That means you'll have to squeeze in 4 feats (Master and GM of Forms as well as ITWF and GTWF) in 3 feat slots (12, 15 and 18).

Toro12
03-22-2014, 04:21 PM
That's 11 (+1) feats, and a Human with 2 Monk bonus feats would only get 10 heroic feats, so I would assume you're taking Epic feats into account. But doing so leaves you 1-2 epics feat slots unaccounted for, solving your problem. Add Dodge or Toughness to the list, and take that and PL: Wiz at level 1.

If you don't include epic feats, you'll run into trouble for another reason. ITWF would only be available once your +3 DEX tome kicks in at level 11. That means you'll have to squeeze in 4 feats (Master and GM of Forms as well as ITWF and GTWF) in 3 feat slots (12, 15 and 18).

Last I checked past life feats can't be taken till level 3. Been a while so it might have changed.

Makkuroi
03-22-2014, 05:33 PM
yes, I include epic feats, and dodge is high up on the list of possible last feats... unfortunately, wiz PL is lvl 3, and I need the evo focus to unlock the +3 evo twist from magister.

about enhancement quality: enhancements would be mainly for traps, and rogue enhancements are better there with +3 reflex against traps, combined with rogue innate reflex thats +4 trap saves over arti. As far as firepower is concerned, Im better off with the cleric trees.

Arti ------------------- vs ----------------- rogue
more sp ---------------------------+4 trap saves
dog------------------------------- +1d6 sneak
repeaters--------------------------more skillpoints if I manage to get it at 1
can take at lvl 1 for more skillpts

tending towards arti right now

Lonnbeimnech
03-22-2014, 07:58 PM
Last I checked past life feats can't be taken till level 3. Been a while so it might have changed.

Talk to Fred, he will allow it.

WAI or not, I don't know.

giftie
03-23-2014, 10:38 AM
Talk to Fred, he will allow it.

WAI or not, I don't know.

If I recall correctly, but it's been a while since I bothered with a purchased past life feat, the free past life feats are added at the end of character creation. Since they're prerequisites for the purchased past life feats, those can't be selected during level 1 for purely technical reasons. So I'd wager it's WAI due to lazy coding, because there's no hard level prerequistive I know of.

Could be wrong.

unbongwah
03-24-2014, 09:46 AM
adept of forms
master of forms
grandmaster of forms
Which stance do you plan to use most? If it's Ocean, then I would say the higher tiers aren't worth it: three feats for +2 WIS, +3% Dodge, +3 saves. If it's Earth, then you can stop at Master for the +1 crit multiplier. Only if it's Wind stance would I consider going all the way, and even then it's iffy since you're only gaining +2.5% dbl-strike per feat.

Makkuroi
03-25-2014, 05:17 AM
Which stance do you plan to use most? If it's Ocean, then I would say the higher tiers aren't worth it: three feats for +2 WIS, +3% Dodge, +3 saves. If it's Earth, then you can stop at Master for the +1 crit multiplier. Only if it's Wind stance would I consider going all the way, and even then it's iffy since you're only gaining +2.5% dbl-strike per feat.

actually, I use both water and air, water for dc casting and trap saves, air for extra boss dps. Might use earth now and then, but not much.

TheGardes
03-25-2014, 09:26 AM
actually, I use both water and air, water for dc casting and trap saves, air for extra boss dps. Might use earth now and then, but not much.

I run a 17/2/1 cleric/monk/fighter clonk. Fun to play, I don't DC cast at all, once in awhile i energy drain, destruction, or cast implosion.. but that's it.

I did take Grandmaster of forms, and mostly use stunning fist for quick kills.. although it's single target.

Ocean stance when I need to make saves (running through traps),
Mountain stance for trash fights. The PPR for damage mitigation is huge. If I'm not worried about incoming damage, I go wind stance.
Boss fights is a toss up between wind/mountain. I usually forget to switch.

I opted to not go DC casting as when I need to heal people, I will run out of mana if I'm using mana to do damage. The monk/melee/stunning fist has great synergy with the cleric, and my mana can be reserved almost exclusively for healing.

Makkuroi
03-25-2014, 04:11 PM
I run a 17/2/1 cleric/monk/fighter clonk. Fun to play, I don't DC cast at all, once in awhile i energy drain, destruction, or cast implosion.. but that's it.

I did take Grandmaster of forms, and mostly use stunning fist for quick kills.. although it's single target.

Ocean stance when I need to make saves (running through traps),
Mountain stance for trash fights. The PPR for damage mitigation is huge. If I'm not worried about incoming damage, I go wind stance.
Boss fights is a toss up between wind/mountain. I usually forget to switch.

I opted to not go DC casting as when I need to heal people, I will run out of mana if I'm using mana to do damage. The monk/melee/stunning fist has great synergy with the cleric, and my mana can be reserved almost exclusively for healing.

with "dc casting" i meant implosion, stunning fist and GMoF abilities. Thats why I dont need heighten.