PDA

View Full Version : Akamai NetSession and DDO



Cordovan
03-14-2014, 02:03 PM
Hello! We recently enabled a non-peer-to-peer version of the Akamai NetSession client for the DDO launcher, and wanted to update you on our plans to utilize this service in the future.

The Akamai NetSession client allows us to quickly and reliably deliver fresh DDO client installations to you, and assist in the repair of missing or corrupted files in current game installations. The client utilizes Akamai’s large network of edge servers to deliver this content from a location which is deemed geographically closest to you, and ensures that we are able to efficiently and effectively get you what you need to play DDO.

Although some versions of the Akamai NetSession client used by other software providers utilize Peer-to-Peer technology, we have decided not to use P2P as it relates to DDO. What this means is that Akamai NetSession will NOT use peer-to-peer when delivering DDO-related content even if the P2P NetSession Client is installed. The P2P setting is configured on both the NetSession Client and on the server-end, and both must be configured to enable P2P before P2P traffic is allowed.

When we launched Update 21, the Akamai NetSession client was introduced in part to replace the former Pando-enabled client. Since the launch, we’ve heard from you about your concerns, including:


The need to accept a required Akamai EULA that contains language in which enablement of peer-to-peer technology is discussed, despite our decision to not utilize this aspect of the client.
The requirement that Akamai NetSession be installed on your computer to launch DDO, even if you no longer have an immediate need for the program.
That Akamai NetSession reinstalls upon subsequent launch of the DDO client once removed.

We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!

BOgre
03-14-2014, 02:13 PM
The P2P setting is configured on both the NetSession Client and on the server-end, and both must be configured to enable P2P before P2P traffic is allowed.

I did not know that. This statement alone goes a LONG way towards allaying my concerns. The rest of the info is great news as well. Thank you for listening (even to me with my bad attitude!) and for making these adjustments.

edit: I for one am happy to start running the game again with this in place. I'l be happier still when that second half your plan is implemented. Do you have any idea how long that will be?

sebastianosmith
03-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Thank you, Jerry.

Nestroy
03-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Sounds good to me. Thank you, Cordovan.

I will still look forward to use DDO ML until then, but this is most acceptable. Best answer I was hoping for.

Tscheuss
03-14-2014, 02:14 PM
Thank you for the good news, Cordovan. It helps to know you guys pay attention to our concerns. :)

katz
03-14-2014, 02:17 PM
thank you.

woulda been nice to hear all this sooner, but still nice it was said.

Drwaz99
03-14-2014, 02:19 PM
Thanks. Any rough idea on when your hoping a "future update" might be? Later this year? Or with a upcoming patch?

I realize pinning down an exact time isn't realistic, but it would give a good idea as to how important you deem this change.

DDOBobC
03-14-2014, 02:23 PM
<...>

In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client <...>


Thank you for listening to the complaints and reacting in a reasonable manner. I'm satisfied enough by the above that I've reinstated my monthly sub (though I'm still using a 3rd party launcher until the new version above goes into effect).

Seriously, thanks for listening.

edit to add : since the response was so speedy that means Turbine didn't lose out on any money from me (my sub didn't run out for another week or so). I hope that higher ups at Turbine will take note of this. Playing fairly and reacting quickly the way you all did rather than dragging your feet and hoping the issue would go away meant your revenue stream didn't take a hit from one customer at least. Well done, IMO.

Grosbeak07
03-14-2014, 02:23 PM
Akamai didn't bother me, but this sounds like a good compromise.

enochiancub
03-14-2014, 02:24 PM
A truly STUNNING end to a frelling ridiculous drama.

Cordovan
03-14-2014, 02:28 PM
Thanks. Any rough idea on when your hoping a "future update" might be? Later this year? Or with a upcoming patch?

I realize pinning down an exact time isn't realistic, but it would give a good idea as to how important you deem this change.

I don't want to commit to a "when" until our engineers have completed their work and it's gone through the process, but the short answer is "as soon as we are able to."

Ovrad
03-14-2014, 02:30 PM
Now if only this post had been made a month ago on lamannia, you would've avoided most of this complete debacle. Seriously, it's baffling how little foresight you guys seem to have sometimes...

Woebringer
03-14-2014, 02:50 PM
Now if only this post had been made a month ago on lamannia, you would've avoided most of this complete debacle. Seriously, it's baffling how little foresight you guys seem to have sometimes...

Truth.
A failure to plan is a plan for failure.

illsigore
03-14-2014, 02:55 PM
Hello! We recently enabled a non-peer-to-peer version of the Akamai NetSession client for the DDO launcher, and wanted to update you on our plans to utilize this service in the future.

The Akamai NetSession client allows us to quickly and reliably deliver fresh DDO client installations to you, and assist in the repair of missing or corrupted files in current game installations. The client utilizes Akamai’s large network of edge servers to deliver this content from a location which is deemed geographically closest to you, and ensures that we are able to efficiently and effectively get you what you need to play DDO.

Although some versions of the Akamai NetSession client used by other software providers utilize Peer-to-Peer technology, we have decided not to use P2P as it relates to DDO. What this means is that Akamai NetSession will NOT use peer-to-peer when delivering DDO-related content even if the P2P NetSession Client is installed. The P2P setting is configured on both the NetSession Client and on the server-end, and both must be configured to enable P2P before P2P traffic is allowed.

When we launched Update 21, the Akamai NetSession client was introduced in part to replace the former Pando-enabled client. Since the launch, we’ve heard from you about your concerns, including:


The need to accept a required Akamai EULA that contains language in which enablement of peer-to-peer technology is discussed, despite our decision to not utilize this aspect of the client.
The requirement that Akamai NetSession be installed on your computer to launch DDO, even if you no longer have an immediate need for the program.
That Akamai NetSession reinstalls upon subsequent launch of the DDO client once removed.

We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!

One question comes to mind. If Akamai NetSession is uninstalled, will it be a complete uninstall? By complete I mean with no remaining files or registry entries.

TheDarkTraveler
03-14-2014, 03:04 PM
Now if only this post had been made a month ago on lamannia, you would've avoided most of this complete debacle. Seriously, it's baffling how little foresight you guys seem to have sometimes...

Or how little grace or common good manners some people have to say "thank you" when they get what they want.

Thanks Cordovan for the information and changes being made.

enochiancub
03-14-2014, 03:06 PM
Or how little grace or common good manners some people have to say "thank you" when they get what they want.

Thanks Cordovan for the information and changes being made.

These are the DDO forums. I'd expect nothing less.

Spirethorn
03-14-2014, 03:09 PM
One question comes to mind. If Akamai NetSession is uninstalled, will it be a complete uninstall? By complete I mean with no remaining files or registry entries.

I would be surprised if there are no registry entries at all left, but I put that more on Microsoft and Windows than on Akamai or Turbine. There is a reason computers get "messier" over time with many installs and uninstalls.

There are registry cleaners that claim to take care of things, but my preferred method with Windows has always been backups and fresh OS installs every couple of years.

DDOBobC
03-14-2014, 03:16 PM
I would be surprised if there are no registry entries at all left, but I put that more on Microsoft and Windows than on Akamai or Turbine. There is a reason computers get "messier" over time with many installs and uninstalls.

There are registry cleaners that claim to take care of things, but my preferred method with Windows has always been backups and fresh OS installs every couple of years.


<Ripley>
I say we take off and FDISK the boot drive from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
</Ripley>

A habit I picked up many many years ago that's saved me hours of frustration is have one physical drive (or RAID set) which houses the OS and nothing else. Makes reinstalls far less hair-pully, so it's not a big deal to freshen things up (OS-wise) every couple of years, or at mobo change.

EllisDee37
03-14-2014, 03:22 PM
Thanks much, Cordovan.

Nascoe
03-14-2014, 03:22 PM
Thank you for the update on this issue and thank you for listening to our concerns, trying to understand them and finding a way to get forward from there on to adress the things that were most worrying to most of us.

I would also like to say that while a tad repetitive, I think the large portion of valuable feedback from people showing what the program actually does, what alternatives from the Akemai might be used instead, and narrowing down the worst parts of the issue helped get this prioritized.

TheDarkTraveler
03-14-2014, 03:23 PM
One question comes to mind. If Akamai NetSession is uninstalled, will it be a complete uninstall? By complete I mean with no remaining files or registry entries.

So I checked it out. I ran this on my Win 7 Pro x64 PC:

1. I ran the Akamai uninstaller, it removed the program and it's associated files along with the installation directory.
2. I ran Regedit and found a number of keys left in the Registry. This is not unusual for most uninstallers and the reason it's wise to clean the Registry from time to time.
3. I ran CCleaner and analyzed the Registry. It picked up all the Akamai keys left from the uninstall.
4. I had CCleaner remove the orphaned keys and clean up the registry.
5. I launched Regedit again to double check and found all the Akamai keys were indeed gone.

zaphear
03-14-2014, 03:29 PM
Glad to hear, I'll resub when this goes live.

kanordog
03-14-2014, 03:29 PM
Thank You!

ComicRelief
03-14-2014, 03:30 PM
<Ripley>
I say we take off and FDISK the boot drive from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
</Ripley>
*snip*

FDISK - how quaint.

Pretty sure that hasn't been used since...Win98...maybe Win2k?
;)

NaturalHazard
03-14-2014, 04:16 PM
I don't want to commit to a "when" until our engineers have completed their work and it's gone through the process, but the short answer is "as soon as we are able to."

Thank you cordovan and everyone else who was part of the change.

Duskslayer
03-14-2014, 04:23 PM
Hello! We recently enabled a non-peer-to-peer version of the Akamai NetSession client for the DDO launcher, and wanted to update you on our plans to utilize this service in the future.

The Akamai NetSession client allows us to quickly and reliably deliver fresh DDO client installations to you, and assist in the repair of missing or corrupted files in current game installations. The client utilizes Akamai’s large network of edge servers to deliver this content from a location which is deemed geographically closest to you, and ensures that we are able to efficiently and effectively get you what you need to play DDO.

Although some versions of the Akamai NetSession client used by other software providers utilize Peer-to-Peer technology, we have decided not to use P2P as it relates to DDO. What this means is that Akamai NetSession will NOT use peer-to-peer when delivering DDO-related content even if the P2P NetSession Client is installed. The P2P setting is configured on both the NetSession Client and on the server-end, and both must be configured to enable P2P before P2P traffic is allowed.

When we launched Update 21, the Akamai NetSession client was introduced in part to replace the former Pando-enabled client. Since the launch, we’ve heard from you about your concerns, including:


The need to accept a required Akamai EULA that contains language in which enablement of peer-to-peer technology is discussed, despite our decision to not utilize this aspect of the client.
The requirement that Akamai NetSession be installed on your computer to launch DDO, even if you no longer have an immediate need for the program.
That Akamai NetSession reinstalls upon subsequent launch of the DDO client once removed.

We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!




http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies2/yay.gifWe did it! http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/images/smilies2/yay.gif

Well done devs. Thank you for listening.

Now.... what about those sniffer packets being SENT from WITHIN the DDO client???
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/437910-DDO-Connections-from-WITHIN-dndclient-exe-see-for-yourself-using-NetLimiter

snook59
03-14-2014, 04:26 PM
Thank you for your efforts in getting this resolved.

illsigore
03-14-2014, 04:31 PM
I would be surprised if there are no registry entries at all left, but I put that more on Microsoft and Windows than on Akamai or Turbine. There is a reason computers get "messier" over time with many installs and uninstalls.

There are registry cleaners that claim to take care of things, but my preferred method with Windows has always been backups and fresh OS installs every couple of years.

Actually, it's not a Microsoft problem. The residue in the registry results from sloppy programming on the part of the vendor. The installer creates the keys, the uninstaller should therefore should remove them. I shouldn't have to buy or use another 3rd party software to remove an unwanted 3rd party program.

Knobull
03-14-2014, 04:35 PM
Thank you! :) This sounds like a most reasonable compromise.

Ravoc-DDO
03-14-2014, 04:45 PM
While many seem to applaud this solution, I personally consider it insufficient, as it still requires the installation of NetSession, which I cannot agree to. It should be perfectly possible for the launcher to use Akamai's network of edge servers without this tool.

This leaves me with 2 questions I would like to see answered by an official Turbine representative.

1. Is there any viable chance in the future that the official launcher will no longer require a NetSession installation alltogether, either by making it fully optional, or by removing it entirely from the process?

2. Is Turbine OK with the usage of alternative launchers, and if so, will they continue to allow their function in the future, and not impede it?

Kadriel
03-14-2014, 04:48 PM
Great.

But I'm wondering if anyone with ISPs that limite the trafic to known p2p hosts has started having trouble so far. Someone posted turbine IP was already in Peerblock.

And if so, is any action beeing taken to reverse that, or even if not, to stop it from happening in the future since Akamai is still a part of the launcher?

Spirethorn
03-14-2014, 04:50 PM
While many seem to applaud this solution, I personally consider it insufficient, as it still requires the installation of NetSession, which I cannot agree to. It should be perfectly possible for the launcher to use Akamai's network of edge servers without this tool.

This leaves me with 2 questions I would like to see answered by an official Turbine representative.

1. Is there any viable chance in the future that the official launcher will no longer require a NetSession installation alltogether, either by making it fully optional, or by removing it entirely from the process?

2. Is Turbine OK with the usage of alternative launchers, and if so, will they continue to allow their function in the future, and not impede it?

The launcher itself is no longer going to require NetSession. My understanding is that, for the most part, it would only be if you did a fresh install of DDO that NetSession would be used. It could then be uninstalled and patches would work as normal.

Thumbed_Servant
03-14-2014, 04:54 PM
Hello! [snip]
When we launched Update 21, the Akamai NetSession client was introduced in part to replace the former Pando-enabled client. Since the launch, we’ve heard from you about your concerns, including:


The need to accept a required Akamai EULA that contains language in which enablement of peer-to-peer technology is discussed, despite our decision to not utilize this aspect of the client.
The requirement that Akamai NetSession be installed on your computer to launch DDO, even if you no longer have an immediate need for the program.
That Akamai NetSession reinstalls upon subsequent launch of the DDO client once removed.

We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns [snip]

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!

THIS is showing care for one's customers. Whether or not the Turbine staff-leadership agree with the concerns of their customers unhappy with the Akamai Netsessions they have heard their customers and are reacting in accordance. THIS is customer service.

Two-thumbs up Turbine

mna
03-14-2014, 05:10 PM
FDISK - how quaint.

Pretty sure that hasn't been used since...Win98...maybe Win2k?
;)



$ LANG=en_US ls -ltu $(which fdisk)
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 105436 Feb 17 00:30 /sbin/fdisk


... since last month, in my case.

TheDarkTraveler
03-14-2014, 05:23 PM
Actually, it's not a Microsoft problem. The residue in the registry results from sloppy programming on the part of the vendor. The installer creates the keys, the uninstaller should therefore should remove them. I shouldn't have to buy or use another 3rd party software to remove an unwanted 3rd party program.

The reality is that it's been like this since Windows 95 when they created the extended "hive" structure for the registry. That's why, for almost 20 years, (win95 was released in Aug, 95) it's been advisable to clean up the registry from time to time, to remove orphaned keys left in by installer programs.

Your absolutely free to complain to Akamai about your issue. But then, to avoid being a hypocrite, you should probably complain to the rest of the software vendors whose products you have installed. I'll wager that not one of them remove all the registry entries when it uninstalls.

But to help you lower your "out of pocket" expenses, CCleaner has a personal version which is free and does a very good job of cleaning up the registry for you.

Of course, you can open the registry in the "regedit" program (which ships with Windows) and remove the keys manually as well.

Chai
03-14-2014, 05:35 PM
Thanks for addressing those issues.

illsigore
03-14-2014, 05:40 PM
The reality is that it's been like this since Windows 95 when they created the extended "hive" structure for the registry. That's why, for almost 20 years, (win95 was released in Aug, 95) it's been advisable to clean up the registry from time to time, to remove orphaned keys left in by installer programs.

Your absolutely free to complain to Akamai about your issue. But then, to avoid being a hypocrite, you should probably complain to the rest of the software vendors whose products you have installed. I'll wager that not one of them remove all the registry entries when it uninstalls.

But to help you lower your "out of pocket" expenses, CCleaner has a personal version which is free and does a very good job of cleaning up the registry for you.

Of course, you can open the registry in the "regedit" program (which ships with Windows) and remove the keys manually as well.

Tell me how much you would like to wager and I'm happy to forward you a list.

Stoner81
03-14-2014, 05:41 PM
Excellent news this Cordovan!

Stoner81.

Ebondevil
03-14-2014, 05:48 PM
Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

Can we have an option in the Launcher which we can tick so Akamai would be uninstalled once it's finished it's business, save us having to do it manually?

Alternatively flag when the launcher installs Akamai and then once it's finished give the option to remove it afterwards?

Also thanks for the update.

TheDarkTraveler
03-14-2014, 05:49 PM
Tell me how much you would like to wager and I'm happy to forward you a list.

It was intended as a colloquialism.

Teva
03-14-2014, 06:17 PM
Thank you for the changes and communication!

I look forward to this and will continue with DDO-ML at least until after said changes are implemented.

Lauf
03-14-2014, 06:20 PM
Hello! We recently enabled a non-peer-to-peer version of the Akamai NetSession client for the DDO launcher, and wanted to update you on our plans to utilize this service in the future.
As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!

Thank you for the update, I welcome the changes.

Ron
03-14-2014, 06:25 PM
This is great, I'm super happy we got this compromise. So don't take what I'm about to say as being ungrateful or anything.

My only slight quibble with this is: Users who install a new copy (or have to have a missing/corrupt file replaced) will have NS installed. Those of us that are tech savy can then go back in and uninstall it after it's finished. But for the average user, are they going to take this back off again? No, almost certainly not.

I worry that it will get out that DDO is installing this garbage on user's systems and give it a reputation. Thereby discouraging people to pick up the game. All it would take is one piece of press and it really could hurt you guys. I'm told (but haven't personally confirmed) that Rift uses this same software. Do they have issues with new registrations because of NS? It concerns me.

But...hey, I guess that is Turbine's issue to deal with. If they think it's worth the risk, then, okay, I suppose :) As long as I can keep it off my machine, I'm fine with it, more or less.

Satyriasys
03-14-2014, 06:32 PM
This is great news. I'm really glad to hear it!:D

Spirethorn
03-14-2014, 06:40 PM
But...hey, I guess that is Turbine's issue to deal with. If they think it's worth the risk, then, okay, I suppose :) As long as I can keep it off my machine, I'm fine with it, more or less.

Pando had an even worse reputation and was installed with less information available to the end user. It seeded P2P without any alerts and it would sometimes glitch and operate beyond Turbine's stated time limit.

I will be very happy if the revised NetSession EULA or other notice at the time of install provides people with information letting them know what this is and when/why it is used, but either way I think in 2014 even the average user will be able to complete an uninstall if he or she wants. :)

geoffhanna
03-14-2014, 08:29 PM
Nice!

Hadesborne
03-15-2014, 12:51 AM
Thank you Cord. This goes a long way to help reinstate the trust I have in Turbine.

Flavilandile
03-15-2014, 03:04 AM
Hello! We recently enabled a non-peer-to-peer version of the Akamai NetSession client for the DDO launcher, and wanted to update you on our plans to utilize this service in the future.

The Akamai NetSession client allows us to quickly and reliably deliver fresh DDO client installations to you, and assist in the repair of missing or corrupted files in current game installations. The client utilizes Akamai’s large network of edge servers to deliver this content from a location which is deemed geographically closest to you, and ensures that we are able to efficiently and effectively get you what you need to play DDO.

Although some versions of the Akamai NetSession client used by other software providers utilize Peer-to-Peer technology, we have decided not to use P2P as it relates to DDO. What this means is that Akamai NetSession will NOT use peer-to-peer when delivering DDO-related content even if the P2P NetSession Client is installed. The P2P setting is configured on both the NetSession Client and on the server-end, and both must be configured to enable P2P before P2P traffic is allowed.

When we launched Update 21, the Akamai NetSession client was introduced in part to replace the former Pando-enabled client. Since the launch, we’ve heard from you about your concerns, including:


The need to accept a required Akamai EULA that contains language in which enablement of peer-to-peer technology is discussed, despite our decision to not utilize this aspect of the client.
The requirement that Akamai NetSession be installed on your computer to launch DDO, even if you no longer have an immediate need for the program.
That Akamai NetSession reinstalls upon subsequent launch of the DDO client once removed.

We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!


Thanks for the information.
I'm still convinced that you do not need the client installed for us to be able to use the Regionally distributed Akamai infrastructure.
But if it works like Pando did ( you need to install it for the initial install if you don't have the files at all, then you can just get rid of it through the control panel once the game is installed ), then I'm happy.


One question comes to mind. If Akamai NetSession is uninstalled, will it be a complete uninstall? By complete I mean with no remaining files or registry entries.

Since Windows 95 softwares have always left traces in the Registry... so while there might not be any trace left on the HDD, there will be traces left in the registry, but a registry cleaner should be able to deal with that.


Now if only this post had been made a month ago on lamannia, you would've avoided most of this complete debacle. Seriously, it's baffling how little foresight you guys seem to have sometimes...

While I fully agree with that, the problem of Lammania feedback is that it comes from a vocal minority ( I include myself into that ) that is already part of a vocal minority ( the forum posters ) that is part of a larger group ( the forum users ) that is just a small part of the whole player community.

Now by now Turbine should know that when some topics gets raised on Lammania about some specific concerns it should be obvious that the larger groups will have a larger and more intense reaction over said concern...
We will see what happens at the next one.




Now.... what about those sniffer packets being SENT from WITHIN the DDO client???
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/437910-DDO-Connections-from-WITHIN-dndclient-exe-see-for-yourself-using-NetLimiter


Weird, I never saw that many hosts contacted by ddoclient.exe in my wireshark and procmon traces.
( ddoclient.exe do talk with external servers beyond Turbine's servers... one of them is an Akamai web server, another is a Google server. )

Are you sure you don't have misconfigured NetLimiter and it display all the IPs it knows of and ask you to tell what to do in the eventual case ddoclient.exe wants to contact them.



While many seem to applaud this solution, I personally consider it insufficient, as it still requires the installation of NetSession, which I cannot agree to. It should be perfectly possible for the launcher to use Akamai's network of edge servers without this tool.

This leaves me with 2 questions I would like to see answered by an official Turbine representative.

1. Is there any viable chance in the future that the official launcher will no longer require a NetSession installation alltogether, either by making it fully optional, or by removing it entirely from the process?

2. Is Turbine OK with the usage of alternative launchers, and if so, will they continue to allow their function in the future, and not impede it?

1) From how I parse Cordovan's post, the Launcher will no longer require Akamai Netsession. It will only be required for installing the game from scratch if you do not have the files already.
Once the game is installed it won't be needed anymore, and can be removed like Pando could be removed.

2) The Alternative launchers have always been unsupported by Turbine. As long as the command line used by the DDO client does not change the alternative launchers will still work.
( and changing the DDO client command line is not really something easy to do since it's tied to the infrastructure the game is built upon... It can be done, but it costs money )


This is great, I'm super happy we got this compromise. So don't take what I'm about to say as being ungrateful or anything.

My only slight quibble with this is: Users who install a new copy (or have to have a missing/corrupt file replaced) will have NS installed. Those of us that are tech savy can then go back in and uninstall it after it's finished. But for the average user, are they going to take this back off again? No, almost certainly not.

I worry that it will get out that DDO is installing this garbage on user's systems and give it a reputation. Thereby discouraging people to pick up the game. All it would take is one piece of press and it really could hurt you guys. I'm told (but haven't personally confirmed) that Rift uses this same software. Do they have issues with new registrations because of NS? It concerns me.

But...hey, I guess that is Turbine's issue to deal with. If they think it's worth the risk, then, okay, I suppose :) As long as I can keep it off my machine, I'm fine with it, more or less.

That's for us to educate them and tell them to go to the Control Panel -> Programs -> Uninstall Akamai Netsession like we did for Pando.

LordTw
03-15-2014, 03:15 AM
Nice!

Aren't you supposed to be on vacation young man?!?

Now get out there and have some fun! Go! GO!

BearyWight

Dendrix
03-15-2014, 07:23 AM
Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.


Very happy to be reading your message.

ScoobieDoo
03-15-2014, 07:33 AM
The changes you described here looks very good. Thx for the info.

Calonderial
03-15-2014, 08:18 AM
Now I'm starting to get that warm and fuzzy feeling inside :)

Dandonk
03-15-2014, 08:49 AM
I'm very happy to hear this :)

galebdern
03-15-2014, 11:40 AM
Glad to hear we've made some progress. Thanks for the update Cord.

phalaeo
03-15-2014, 04:05 PM
Thank you for the update and the changes.

My husband uninstalled the game due to the Akamai stuff, and I really need him to Haste/Blur/GH me... um, meant to say "bring his completionist Wizard to help kill mobs"... yeah...

Lanhelin
03-15-2014, 05:12 PM
I don't want to commit to a "when" until our engineers have completed their work and it's gone through the process, but the short answer is "as soon as we are able to."

Please send me an e-mail when it's done, because I have uninstalled DDO due to this Netsession issue and play Guild Wars 2 atm / ESO maybe. I'd rather come back to DDO but won't check the forums each day for the update. Thank you.

Handpicked
03-15-2014, 10:35 PM
Thank you very much for addressing our concerns Cordovan. I already have to turn off peerblock to connect to DDO so this was very troubling to me. I eagerly await the update!

This may be a good place to ask, since everyone here seems observant as to their client. Whenever I start DDO it downloads several splash screens, always, without fail. Does this happen to anyone else?

blerkington
03-15-2014, 11:07 PM
Hi,

It's good to finally see this thread and some evidence of customers' concerns being taken into account.

More like this and I think the community could become considerably less hostile.

Thanks.

Arianka
03-16-2014, 08:24 AM
thanx for lisening to our concerns and most of all thanx for doing somthing adout it.

well done turbine.

CrymsonMagi
03-16-2014, 01:20 PM
This may be a good place to ask, since everyone here seems observant as to their client. Whenever I start DDO it downloads several splash screens, always, without fail. Does this happen to anyone else?

Yes, every time I log in. Never really wondered about it. Started a few updates ago.

Handpicked
03-16-2014, 05:19 PM
Yes, every time I log in. Never really wondered about it. Started a few updates ago.

See... that concerns me though. If everytime I log on it tries to redownload anything at all, like say these 10 or so loading screens, then wouldn't it try and reinstall Akamai to do so? You follow my logic?

Thats why I was wondering if it was just me... or if the loading screens were not saving correctly or something. It would be terrible to get this Akamai thing resolved only to have to wait for another update to fix this loading screen downloading issue for it to work correctly.

Apparently it is starting to be noticed though https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438533-Downloading-DE-Loading-Screen-2

OverlordOfRats
03-17-2014, 04:01 AM
Thank you for the update.

Grimlock
03-17-2014, 10:28 AM
Good job Jerry. I am sorry to see so many people left the game due to this unfortunate incident, but I am very happy the Turbine team read the responses of so many players and decided to do the right thing after -listening- to the player base.

Nascoe
03-17-2014, 04:40 PM
I hope you guys get this working and implemented as soon as possible, its annoying to have to live with a workaround stopping the thing and activating it before you start the launcher.

Ino-San
03-19-2014, 04:57 PM
While I haven't seen anything posted, I was wondering if there was any news on the Akamai front?

Personally, I'd like to get back to playing w/o Akamai on my computer or having to uninstall it at every turn, for those that are going that route.

MartinusWyllt
03-19-2014, 05:06 PM
So...any solution for the endless Akamai EULA loop and "failed to initialize" problem?

Hazelnut
03-19-2014, 05:22 PM
I'm not sure it counts as a "fix" yet, but interestingly DDO is currently patching itself and netsession_win.exe is NOT currently running on my desktop. Netsession is not running because I modified the DDO startup to kill netsession 3 seconds after it starts. It took well over 3 seconds for the patches to install. Long enough to check the task manager to confirm that the netsession_win.exe was in fact not running before patching completed (or even completed the download).

Flavilandile
03-20-2014, 02:57 AM
I'm not sure it counts as a "fix" yet, but interestingly DDO is currently patching itself and netsession_win.exe is NOT currently running on my desktop. Netsession is not running because I modified the DDO startup to kill netsession 3 seconds after it starts. It took well over 3 seconds for the patches to install. Long enough to check the task manager to confirm that the netsession_win.exe was in fact not running before patching completed (or even completed the download).

You never needed netsession for the patching process. Even on Lammania when it was first noticed, the game could be patched with Netsession killed.

Which is why the problem of it's sneaky installation was raised in the first place. Since it wasn't needed for the patches, it had no reason to be installed.

Now we know better : Akamai Netsession was to be used for the initial game installation in replacement of Pando.... Except that they blundered and installed something that couldn't be removed once the game is installed and it is not needed anymore.

I'm interest too in knowing when they will update the launcher to bypass the Netsession requirement. ( that bit shouldn't be hard to code really )

Ravoc-DDO
03-21-2014, 04:23 PM
Any status update on the launcher adaptation yet, Turbine?

I have some valuable auction mail waiting that's gonna expire within a week...

Archetype
03-22-2014, 01:44 PM
Bueller?

ishunt
03-22-2014, 09:02 PM
Is anyone else experiencing issues where the net-session client sucks up bandwidth? I kill it and my network usage drops to zero. My client can be idle and it is still sucking up bandwidth.

Calonderial
03-23-2014, 03:20 AM
I keep having to agree to akamai and it re installs everytime I start DDO after restarting my PC

Spirethorn
03-23-2014, 06:33 AM
I keep having to agree to akamai and it re installs everytime I start DDO after restarting my PC

It will be this way until they give us a new launcher with the revised NetSession. The current public test for LOTRO is using the new way and it does not need to be installed unless you are a) doing a completely new install of the game or b) replacing a missing file. For regular patches, updates, and use of the launcher, NetSession did not even try to install.

For now, if you want to use the standard DDO launcher, these are the steps I have taken to minimize the time NetSession is in use:

Initial Setup

If you have uninstalled NetSession, let it install when you next run the DDO launcher
Open your Control Panel and look for one named 'Akamai NetSession Interface'
Drag a shortcut to that NetSession control panel to your desktop (or wherever you find it will be convenient)
Open the NetSession control panel and go to the Preferences tab
Under the Service section, click Stop to stop the running service (you can confirm in task manager, but this should stop all netsession processes)
Next, open up System Configuration with msconfig (you can search for this in the Start menu search box, or just type msconfig from run or a command prompt)
Go to the Startup tab of the System Configuration window and uncheck Akamai Netsession (this prevents it from auto-starting every time you boot your computer)
Apply and exit msconfig

This setup gives you simple control over when NetSession starts and stops. You will need it for the DDO launcher, but nothing else.

To Start DDO

Before opening the launcher, use the shortcut you created to the Akanai NetSession Interface Control Panel
On the Preferences tab, start the services
Now start the DDO launcher
When the launcher gets to the username/password prompts, go back to the control panel and stop the NetSession services
Log in to DDO as normal; NetSession is not needed to play


Do it this way and NetSession only has to be running for a handful of seconds for the launcher to get past checking for it. As soon as Turbine releases the revised version, you won't even need that much. At that point you should be able to uninstall NetSession and never look back unless you need a fresh install of the DDO client (this part I am still testing over in LOTRO; should work the same for both games).

moomooprincess
03-25-2014, 08:26 AM
So...any solution for the endless Akamai EULA loop and "failed to initialize" problem?

Some options for you to try
1. Go to Akamai and install from there. It seems on some player's machine's they are blocking admin rights or write privileges to the directories that Akamai wants to use.

2. use PyLOTRO.

AMADHA
03-27-2014, 11:20 AM
We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

Great to hear that you are investigating options, however it seems obvious from this response that you need to keep looking. Do you not hear the roar?? You state that you can remove Akamai after install, but it will @*#$^% reinstall anytime it finds a 'deleted file'??? How often does that ever happen, I mean really? (Give me a number versus total installs. It can't be that many or you have another issue to solve more important than this one.)

So let me provide you with an option that won't tick people off... since you seem intent on using a app similar to Netsession, Pando, ...:
- Don't use P2P EVER or anything that even remotely smells like you might be!
- Have your installer start a non-P2P downloader instance to run the download and then kill the session on completion or DL abort.
- Learn from camping and "Leave no Trace."

Think you can do this? If so, then "No worries mate!".

Flavilandile
03-27-2014, 01:58 PM
You cannot remove it yet, as you noticed it will reinstall itself.

If you really want to avoid it use either DDO-ML or PyLOTRO as launchers once you have uninstalled Akamai Netsession.

Lanhelin
03-28-2014, 06:47 PM
In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.)

It would be really great to announce at least an estimated date for this update, because I want to know if it'd be worth for me to buy another MMO and prepare to spend a few weeks, months (or even years?) there before this update happens. Thank you.

ImanCarrot
03-28-2014, 07:22 PM
I have cancelled my account.

Good luck in your future ventures.

That's a 3 year player who runs 5 Guild who you just lost, I am suggesting to all my Guild members they do the same.

Lanhelin
03-28-2014, 08:17 PM
I have cancelled my account.

I did this too. I play GW2 now, unfortunately. I really want to come back to DDO - but under these circumstances, no. I wanted to spend some money on AS but currently I think about spending it for some Dias instead.

U know, Turbine, I really appreciate DDO and I'd love to stay here, I had a plan for my toon, which would have divertained me at least until the middle of 2015. Now it's gone, and I do not want to use 3rd party launcher programs to circumvent 3rd party official launcher issues.

My ViP and therefore forum access lasts until end of may. I will occasionally drive by the forums as long as I'm allowed to, but my playing times are dedicated to another game atm. There is no other game in my gaming history where I stayed in the related forums after quitting, so do not f*** it up, please. Thank you.

Arzoc
03-28-2014, 08:55 PM
What exactly is going on here? I see some drama about Akamai(what's an Akamai?) when I log back in from a longish break, and I see people quitting subs left and right. Pretty much my whole guild has gone inactive, which sucks. But, why? I guess I trust Turbine too much, but I never really thought anything about it

enochiancub
03-28-2014, 09:05 PM
When you figure it out let me know. The amusement has worn off for me.

ImanCarrot
03-28-2014, 09:14 PM
Shame really, it was a good game. I had characters levelled 28, 25 and a few 20 and lot of level 4- 5's helping Guildies get going. All that's gone now.

Good luck all, may you find a better game :(

End of an era I suppose.

*sadness*

Greantun
03-28-2014, 09:22 PM
For those of you who don't read Lamannia release notes...



Lamannia Client Changes

A new version of the Lamannia client is now available! Click here to download the client. (Lamannia Mac client coming soon.) The client has also been updated with a new implementation of Akamai NetSession. Once installed, it is possible to uninstall the NetSession client, and NetSession will not be reinstalled unless necessary to download a new file or new installation. Additionally, the EULA has been corrected to remove language related to peer-to-peer technology, which we are not using in our implementation of the NetSession client.

ImanCarrot
03-28-2014, 09:46 PM
I don't have a clue what Lamania is, I don't have a clue what that last post meant. All I know is there's something on my PC that I didn't authorise. Which to me is an invasion and an insulting assaultive abuse.

BOgre
03-28-2014, 09:57 PM
Well, by clicking "I Agree" you did authorize it.

However, on the plus side, what the Lammania post means is that Turbine recognizes that Akamai is a problem, bigger than they expected, and that they have taken steps to fix it. Akamai will be fully removable with a very soon upcoming patch. So all your 28s and 25s and all that don't need to be utterly thrown away. Be patient just a little bit and all will be well.

ImanCarrot
03-28-2014, 10:19 PM
Well, by clicking "I Agree" you did authorize it.

I respectfully disagree. Anyone who had the time to read the whole 5 pages of small print would be as blind as a bat by the third page unless they were used to focusing intently on PC screens for illegal purposes.

For example, did anyone read all the pages on their House mortgage, their Bank Details their Car Insurance or even their Pre-Nupt?... I think not ogre old chap!

Otherwise they would have said 'erm.. what's this bit?'....

regards.

BOgre
03-28-2014, 10:56 PM
I respectfully disagree. Anyone who had the time to read the whole 5 pages of small print would be as blind as a bat by the third page unless they were used to focusing intently on PC screens for illegal purposes.

For example, did anyone read all the pages on their House mortgage, their Bank Details their Car Insurance or even their Pre-Nupt?... I think not ogre old chap!

Otherwise they would have said 'erm.. what's this bit?'....

regards.

That's a terrible argument. Yes, I did read all the pages on my mortgage, what idiot would not? Car Insurance, yup, I have no pre-nup, but um.... obviously that's something you'd ought to read. doi.

No difference here. You sign without reading, your mistake.

Anyways, irrelevant now. They're fixing it. Peace.

ImanCarrot
03-28-2014, 11:23 PM
Peace too, But there is no way you could have read, for example, the whole of the EULA for Windows which you are operating... please tell me no, lol, you would be blind!

Or dead old! even God ain't that old lol.

seebs
03-29-2014, 02:06 AM
I don't think I've ever known anyone who has a mortgage and didn't read the entire thing. That would be really dumb. Seriously, if you have $200,000 at stake, it is worth your time to read a few pages.

kmoustakas
03-29-2014, 06:06 AM
I'm really glad to see that when enough people complain about something that is blatanly obvious, eventually steps are taken to correct it. Thank you :)

Flavilandile
03-29-2014, 07:07 AM
For those of you who don't read Lamannia release notes...

Good to know... That might make me update Lammania Client to test that.


I don't have a clue what Lamania is, I don't have a clue what that last post meant. All I know is there's something on my PC that I didn't authorise. Which to me is an invasion and an insulting assaultive abuse.

Lammania is the Preview-Beta server... That's the server where the next update to go live is shown to all the players willing to go there. It require it's special installation ( it's just another DDO install dedicated to Lammania ).
When it's working you can copy ( for free ) your characters from live using the character copy tool. ( https://www.ddo.com/en/character_copy ).
It allows you to test the system changes ( like the new destiny for Divines that will come in Patch 1 ) and the new quests, and you can give feedback on things seen there.

For example, The Akamai Problem was raised at least a month before Update 21 hit live, because it was seen on Lammania... In that particular instance Turbine decided that the few that raised the issue on Lammania were just crying Wolf and went with it. To the effect we all saw once it went live.

katz
03-29-2014, 07:15 AM
i have updated the lammania client on my computer, and i can verify that Akamai NO LONGER INSTALLS ITSELF after the initial update.


(also, the new shadow effect on the thunder weapons doesn't look half bad now. XD)

katz
03-29-2014, 07:38 AM
For example, did anyone read all the pages on their House mortgage absolutely. that was $100,000 on the line and 30 years of our life tied up there, their Bank Details of course. i don't want surprise fees hitting me because i neglected to read what i was agreeing to their Car Insurance absolutely or even their Pre-Nupt don't have one?... I think not ogre old chap! i think so, because i'll add car lease/loan/ contract, credit card agreements, medical privacy agreements (HIPAA), cell phone contracts, any form of rental agreement (car, equipment, video), and even job application/agreements

Otherwise they would have said 'erm.. what's this bit?'.... they DID.... hence this thread (and literally dozens like it).

regards.



I respectfully disagree. Anyone who had the time to read the whole 5 pages of small print would be as blind as a bat by the third page unless they were used to focusing intently on PC screens for illegal purposes.
um.. what?


i would say i'm sorry to see you go, but.. umm.....



fare thee well

katz
03-29-2014, 08:14 AM
http://www.housepetscomic.com/comics/2014-03-28-heres-your-sign.png

Ravoc-DDO
03-29-2014, 08:55 AM
For those of you who don't read Lamannia release notes...

Lamannia Client Changes

A new version of the Lamannia client is now available! Click here to download the client. (Lamannia Mac client coming soon.) The client has also been updated with a new implementation of Akamai NetSession. Once installed, it is possible to uninstall the NetSession client, and NetSession will not be reinstalled unless necessary to download a new file or new installation. Additionally, the EULA has been corrected to remove language related to peer-to-peer technology, which we are not using in our implementation of the NetSession client.
See, I'm having a problem with that right there...

katz
03-29-2014, 09:01 AM
ok, basically, when the patch goes live, it will load akamai one more time, as it still thinks it needs to because the client hasn't changed at your end yet. you'll see the updated EULA which will no longer have P2P wording in it. accept that, let it install, turn around and uninstall it (note, you can even do this while the patch is running), run your favorite registry cleaner (i like Eusing Free Registry Cleaner), and when the patch is done, it will never ask to install Akamai again... unless you manage to bork a file somehow and it has to download just one file. and it will work just like pando used to. (reminder, check your system and remove pando if you havn't already. it's what USED to be used to install DDO.)

problem solved. finally.

Ravoc-DDO
03-29-2014, 10:22 AM
I never used Pando either (I still have the original full installer with .bin files).

I'll just stick to a 3rd party launcher then.

Flavilandile
03-29-2014, 11:01 AM
See, I'm having a problem with that right there...

You had a problem with Pando ? If not Akamai Netsession will be exactly like Pando was :
A download tool to install the game. Once it has installed the game it can be removed, and you can still play the game.


I never used Pando either (I still have the original full installer with .bin files).

I'll just stick to a 3rd party launcher then.

Same for me... and after updating Lammania I can tell that it does launch the game without Akamai running. I have the directory where Akamai instals itself set to : Cannot Read, Write or Execute ( in *nix parlance it's d--------- Try to do something with that ) [ the update was performed through PyLOTRO though ]

I might go back to the normal launcher ( but I'll keep PyLOTRO and DDO-ML around to tinker with them and learn about coding on PC in a language that is not assembler ) once it goes live... But that's because I'm lazy.

Fedora1
03-29-2014, 11:50 AM
We have been investigating our options, and have found a solution which we hope will alleviate your concerns. In a future update, we will be altering the Akamai NetSession client to only install if the DDO launcher detects that it is necessary (for example, if you accidentally deleted a required file, or if you are installing new.) Additionally, we will use a more specific EULA that provides further detail about what the program is, and more clearly matches our actual usage of the product.

Once you install the DDO client, it will be possible to uninstall Akamai NetSession from your computer, and NetSession will not reinstall upon subsequent launch of the DDO client unless it is necessary to deliver a deleted file or a fresh installation. Typical game updates will not require the use of Akamai NetSession.

As always, we appreciate your support, and thank you for playing DDO!

This is good news. I appreciate Turbine acting on this. It may not be a perfect solution for some, but it addresses the things I was most concerned with. Thanks Cordovan.

Ron
03-29-2014, 02:23 PM
This is good news. I appreciate Turbine acting on this. It may not be a perfect solution for some, but it addresses the things I was most concerned with. Thanks Cordovan.

I think I'm gonna do my patching with DDO-ML from now on (just because I don't trust NS to not try and install itself, although I get that it probably won't without at least trying to get me to sign a EULA fist). But once they push a client that doesn't have to force install NS, I'll use that for normal startup.

nsromanzo
03-29-2014, 06:57 PM
Alright so I installed lamannia(yes it was in a different folder) and when after I log in and you get to the part where you choose the server I get a message that says: Game Error [201] Can't open the data files. Check that they exist and that you have permission to write them. The program will exit now. [201]

What the hell does this mean? I completely reset my computer to factory settings and wiped everything and reinstalled only lamannia and I still got the same message. Please someone help me.

I have a Inspiron 15R touchscreen that uses Windows 8.

katz
03-29-2014, 08:37 PM
while this thread is more recent than the other one, it is still the wrong place to ask this. technically you would have better luck to start your own thread.

HOWEVER, that being said... i will say this: DDO is not 100% supported for win8 yet, altho i know some people are already playing on win8. based on the error you received, my first thing to check would be to make sure you are using "run as administrator" (or whatever the win8 equivalent is, if different) when you launch the game. might also want to check the files and make sure none of them are set to "read only"

Tarrell
03-30-2014, 12:20 AM
Or how little grace or common good manners some people have to say "thank you" when they get what they want.

Thanks Cordovan for the information and changes being made.

Your brown nosing is far more despicable than any "bad manners" seen in these threads.

They got what they deserved with all this backlash. They don't need our thanks, just our money. Like any company, they are leeches, our money is the blood.

Missing_Minds
03-30-2014, 01:10 AM
Like any company, they are leeches, our money is the blood.
Then why are you here? If companies are leeches, why give any business anything?

Oh yeah... although you are loath to admit it, they have what you both want and need.

stoerm
03-31-2014, 01:21 AM
I have cancelled my account.

Good luck in your future ventures.

That's a 3 year player who runs 5 Guild who you just lost, I am suggesting to all my Guild members they do the same.

Here, have some Kool-Aid.

I bet you don't have any video card or audio chipset widgets running in your taskbar. No printer helpers or Java update reminders. Turbine decided to use a 3rd party application and service instead of making their own, inferior version. It doesn't use P2P. The same application has been used by Microsoft and Adobe. But, to each their own.


Alright so I installed lamannia(yes it was in a different folder) and when after I log in and you get to the part where you choose the server I get a message that says: Game Error [201] Can't open the data files. Check that they exist and that you have permission to write them. The program will exit now. [201]

I'd pick up on the hint about permissions. Chances are you've put the client somewhere where you don't have the permissions to change anything as a normal user. Program Files might be one such place. You could try right clicking on the launcher and selecting "Run as Administrator".

AMADHA
03-31-2014, 09:35 AM
Peace too, But there is no way you could have read, for example, the whole of the EULA for Windows which you are operating... please tell me no, lol, you would be blind!

Or dead old! even God ain't that old lol.

Actually, I did. I've started reading EULAs this since I took business law where we studied one, this and another encounter with one application loading another that was buried in the EULA which my Anti-Virus complained about got me started. Plus I read pretty fast.

In any case, you should understand that they make them long and at a high reading level just so you won't read them as they strip away your legal rights and give them to themselves. You might want to actually start to read one or two, its very enlightening.

DakDeFrosted
03-31-2014, 09:45 AM
Sad to see that Turbine still hasn't done anything about Akamai. I was hoping that when I got back from vacation I was going to be able to log in.

I guess I'll be downloading a new MMO this week.

Flavilandile
03-31-2014, 09:50 AM
Sad to see that Turbine still hasn't done anything about Akamai. I was hoping that when I got back from vacation I was going to be able to log in.

I guess I'll be downloading a new MMO this week.

Things have been done :

The new Lammania update ( Patch 1 ) does not require akamai netsession to launch the game.
Akamai will be like Pando was : you need it to install the game, once the game is installed you will be able to uninstall it and play without it running.

Since it's already on Lammania, it should hit live in a few weeks.

Thordicain
04-02-2014, 07:06 PM
Even tho DDO never came out with their reasoning behind using Akamai, I believe they have their heads in the CLOUDS.

I believe Cloud Computing is the wave of the Future.

AMADHA
04-08-2014, 11:21 AM
Even tho DDO never came out with their reasoning behind using Akamai, I believe they have their heads in the CLOUDS.

I believe Cloud Computing is the wave of the Future.

Yes, it is the wave of the future... but do you know what "cloud computing" actually is at the hardware level? In part, it's what Akamai is offering via their edge servers. So maybe it's a wave we might not want to surf and rather wait for the next one.

Nestroy
04-08-2014, 12:02 PM
Yes, it is the wave of the future... but do you know what "cloud computing" actually is at the hardware level? In part, it's what Akamai is offering via their edge servers. So maybe it's a wave we might not want to surf and rather wait for the next one.

Well, I just installed Office 2013 today via the Akamai servers and Office 2013 is strongly embedded into the Microsoft Cloud. And you know what? NetSession was not running afterwards. So it is safe to assume that if this ever got installed for getting Office 2013 rnning, it was safely deinstalled after Office 2013 ran.

Comes DDO...

OK, I have to admit, I now am allowed to deinstall the NetSession client after the update w/o getting noticed every single startup to reinstall the tool.

Hendrik
04-08-2014, 02:34 PM
Even tho DDO never came out with their reasoning behind using Akamai, I believe they have their heads in the CLOUDS.

I believe Cloud Computing is the wave of the Future.

Yes, they did.

Cordovan clearly stated why they use it, of course that reason was clouded in the usual conspiracy theories by tinfoil hat aficionados.

stoerm
04-08-2014, 06:06 PM
Well, I just installed Office 2013 today via the Akamai servers and Office 2013 is strongly embedded into the Microsoft Cloud. And you know what? NetSession was not running afterwards.

Microsoft has devised its own nefarious processes to suck up your bandwidth while you are not looking. The names wuauclt.exe and svchost.exe are spoken only in hushed tones by those who have witnessed the terror. Those blinded by the Oracle of the Sun are heard babbling incoherently of jucheck.exe in the dark.

But let us not get distracted! Let us focus on the evil that is Akamai! For it is not the same. A 3rd party updater is evil!

Had there been the exact same code delivered as "netsession.dll", in turn called by a tiny wrapper executable "ddocheck.exe", and the Akamai EULA buried in the standard WB legal text that you never read but always agree to, it would have been AOK. Nobody would have cared.

"No worries, you can allow ddocheck.exe because it works like jucheck.exe for Java or the Windows BITS service, to keep the game updated. Yes BITS 3.0 had so called peer caching but Microsoft got rid of it, and ddocheck.exe doesn't use p2p either.

"OK thanks buddy"

*Boggle*

Nestroy
04-09-2014, 06:40 AM
Microsoft has devised its own nefarious processes to suck up your bandwidth while you are not looking. The names wuauclt.exe and svchost.exe are spoken only in hushed tones by those who have witnessed the terror. Those blinded by the Oracle of the Sun are heard babbling incoherently of jucheck.exe in the dark.

But let us not get distracted! Let us focus on the evil that is Akamai! For it is not the same. A 3rd party updater is evil!

Had there been the exact same code delivered as "netsession.dll", in turn called by a tiny wrapper executable "ddocheck.exe", and the Akamai EULA buried in the standard WB legal text that you never read but always agree to, it would have been AOK. Nobody would have cared.

"No worries, you can allow ddocheck.exe because it works like jucheck.exe for Java or the Windows BITS service, to keep the game updated. Yes BITS 3.0 had so called peer caching but Microsoft got rid of it, and ddocheck.exe doesn't use p2p either.

"OK thanks buddy"

*Boggle*

Ok, you are basically right, but...

When with Micro$oft something goes wrong, there is only one big company I can hold liable. When with Akamai NetSession something goes wrong, who is liable, Turbine or Akamai? Both will tell me to sue the other one. Simple as that.

Fedora1
04-09-2014, 06:51 AM
Microsoft has devised its own nefarious processes to suck up your bandwidth while you are not looking. The names wuauclt.exe and svchost.exe are spoken only in hushed tones by those who have witnessed the terror. Those blinded by the Oracle of the Sun are heard babbling incoherently of jucheck.exe in the dark.

I don't have to worry about P2P with these. Irrelevent comparison. Client-server applications are necessary unless you want to manually patch everything yourself.


Yes BITS 3.0 had so called peer caching but Microsoft got rid of it, and ddocheck.exe doesn't use p2p either.

BITS never did P2P sharing outside of the domain your computer was a part of, so again an irrelevent comparison. The domain was controlled by your company (or school or whatever orginazation you were in) and not some totally anonymous and unknown entities.

What gets me is people like you think people like me are chicken littles. When the reality is you spew out the same nonesense you have heard that tickled your ears without knowing what's really going on, and by sticking your head in the sand you think everything will be all right.

Anyway as far as I am concerned Turbine addressed the issues with this last update to my satisfaction.

stoerm
04-09-2014, 08:57 AM
What gets me is people like you think people like me are chicken littles. When the reality is you spew out the same nonesense you have heard that tickled your ears without knowing what's really going on, and by sticking your head in the sand you think everything will be all right.

Anyway as far as I am concerned Turbine addressed the issues with this last update to my satisfaction.

It is "people like you" and the previous poster who are assuming things but you still talk of "better knowledge". Assuming things like:

- that p2p would be used by Netsession in relation to DDO
- that WB don't do due diligence with 3rd party SW components
- that Netsession 'might' change and become a security threat
- that you know something about me

Did I say BITS peer caching was p2p? It's just as relevant, i.e. it's not. Netsession never used p2p to update DDO either. It was worth checking and the facts were spelled out.

Now, I engaged in some hyperbole to underscore my point. I concede. Sorry if that caused palpitations. My point is there is always risk. It's practically impossible to avoid 3rd party software, and we all have 'unnecessary' junk running on our PCs. We have to make informed decisions and accept the possibility of things going wrong. I'll take Akamai's and even Turbine's track record over Oracle's and Microsoft's any day, and I still have software from all four on my PC.

I was concerned by Netsession myself, and frankly I would rather not have it on my PC. I have worse junk too, see Java. What bothers me is the downright superstitious hysteria and torches and pitchforks mentality on the forums. I just wish all people were "like you" and stopped telling us to quit DDO over this.

Fedora1
04-09-2014, 10:16 AM
It is "people like you" and the previous poster who are assuming things but you still talk of "better knowledge". Assuming things like:

- that p2p would be used by Netsession in relation to DDO
- that WB don't do due diligence with 3rd party SW components
- that Netsession 'might' change and become a security threat
- that you know something about me

Well in regards to your last point, it's funny that you list it as something I did and then do it right back at me. lol

I also never assumed your first three points. I saw that the risk was there for any of those possibilities, and then voiced my objections. I know it would be hard to go back through the multitude of posts on the issue, but all along I warned that those things were possible, not inevitable. And my stance was that I would continue to play via work-arounds, while calling for a change to the EULA and making the Akamai client optional.

On the other hand it certainly looked like you simply "assumed" none of those things would happen, and berated (or used hyperbole) to belittle those with a different opinion.

Yes, there were those who passed on bad and/or inaccurate information about Akamai, and those could easily be corrected without going way over to the other side claiming that MS/Google/et al were just the same - misniformation is misinformation.



Did I say BITS peer caching was p2p?

By claiming it is "peer" caching, that implies it is not client/server. Peer caching implies peer-to-peer. Otherwise it's not "peer".


Netsession never used p2p to update DDO either. It was worth checking and the facts were spelled out.

No one said it did. I ran wireshark for days and was satisified it was behaving. The EULA clearly stated that it could though, and that was my issue. The EULA was between me and Akamai, Turbine was out of the loop legally. So they could say truthfully that their deal with Akamai did not include P2P, but Akamai's deal with me (via the EULA) clearly said they could do it if they wanted to.


Now, I engaged in some hyperbole to underscore my point. I concede. Sorry if that caused palpitations.

It was more the plethora of posts like yours, rather than just yours. Especially since it is a moot point now with the update.


My point is there is always risk.

Sorry I missed your point. It looked like another "you guys need to put away the tin foil" post.



What bothers me is the downright superstitious hysteria and torches and pitchforks mentality on the forums.

Oh c'mon, that's what makes the forums fun. :p



I just wish all people were "like you" and stopped telling us to quit DDO over this.

Yeah I never advocated quitting since there were enough work arounds. Easy work arounds at that. Still I'm glad Turbine made some corrections so we don't have to use the work arounds.

toaftoaf
04-12-2014, 09:35 PM
most of us are happy our launcher isnt hosing up on the akamai part.... 100% fact

Perceval
04-13-2014, 05:54 AM
Why do people get so upset about EULAs? Can anyone name a case in which a EULA was actually upheld ? There are strict guidelines to a EULAs validity and in every case I know of the involved a EULA that made it to court, the EULA was thrown out either in part or its entirety because by buying the game or paying money before seeing the EULA, the company is actually violating contractual law in the US. Unless the EULA is signed or agreed to by a legal entity (your gamertag, screen name and/or forum name is not a legal representation of you) its completely worthless. I love Turbine and am a DDO fanboi, but the EULA is nothing more then a guideline that is not legally binding in any way shape or form. They want you to think it is, but it isn't. If you violate it, they can stop doing business with you, but that's a choice not a legal restriction. Unless you physically sign something with your real legal name, every case involving a click ok to agree EULA has been ruled in favor of the CLICKER and not the company writing the EULA.

Some stuff in EULAs are binding whether you sign it or not (Copyright, Trademark, Reverse Engineering) but the minutia about exploits and suing them for doing something they did not fully disclose is not worth the time it took you to scroll past and not read it. It is the companies (read as Turbine's) job to clearly and concisely in plain language disclose any and all first or third party usages of your system and resources not directly related to the game or game play for your system, even within your own domain. If they use my bandwidth for anything other then my game, they are liable for any and all issues caused by such unless they have a legal document, legally signed by me agreeing to this, EULAs are not such a legal document unless you digitally sign one with your legal name and you enter the date. Yes EULAs have been thrown out on the grounds there was no place to enter a date by the EU.

Get over the EULA..,. its meaningless.

Fedora1
04-13-2014, 07:42 AM
Why do people get so upset about EULAs? Can anyone name a case in which a EULA was actually upheld ? There are strict guidelines to a EULAs validity and in every case I know of the involved a EULA that made it to court, the EULA was thrown out either in part or its entirety because by buying the game or paying money before seeing the EULA, the company is actually violating contractual law in the US. Unless the EULA is signed or agreed to by a legal entity (your gamertag, screen name and/or forum name is not a legal representation of you) its completely worthless. I love Turbine and am a DDO fanboi, but the EULA is nothing more then a guideline that is not legally binding in any way shape or form. They want you to think it is, but it isn't. If you violate it, they can stop doing business with you, but that's a choice not a legal restriction. Unless you physically sign something with your real legal name, every case involving a click ok to agree EULA has been ruled in favor of the CLICKER and not the company writing the EULA.

Can you post some of these examples? Maybe a Google search would suffice, but I wonder how one "knows" about such cases as I have never heard about EULA's ending up in court. It's not like they make it to the evening news or get talked about on the radio. Yet you indicate (by saying "every case I know of the involved a EULA that made it to court") that you know of more than a couple (you would have said "both" if it was two cases).

What specific cases are you aware of? I am sincerely interested.

Thanks.

Oh, by the way: No, you don’t own it: Court upholds EULAs, threatens digital resale (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses/)

The article's concluding remark: "So, to recap: EULAs are binding, they can control just about everything you might dream up, and only Congress can change the situation."