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Raoull
03-12-2014, 01:32 PM
Running around Thunderholme recently, I found that the skeletons seem to be completely sneak immune. I was able to bypass their fort enough to crit on occasion, so I know it isn't pure fort....

Is this common? I've been able to sneak attack other undead, including TTO. I'm not totally positive whether I've been able to sneak Skeletons in the past... but I think I have. For no other reason than the drop in my DPS without sneak was extremely noticable. Using my disrupting daggers on those things was like sawing off their kneecaps with a rusty spork....


Anyone know any details about true sneak immune mobs? Previously I was just assuming all that stuff just had 100% fort.....

Linvak
03-12-2014, 01:44 PM
Running around Thunderholme recently, I found that the skeletons seem to be completely sneak immune. I was able to bypass their fort enough to crit on occasion, so I know it isn't pure fort....

Is this common? I've been able to sneak attack other undead, including TTO. I'm not totally positive whether I've been able to sneak Skeletons in the past... but I think I have. For no other reason than the drop in my DPS without sneak was extremely noticable. Using my disrupting daggers on those things was like sawing off their kneecaps with a rusty spork....


Anyone know any details about true sneak immune mobs? Previously I was just assuming all that stuff just had 100% fort.....

I'm prolly just as lost as u are, but the new content definitely is not rogue friendly, just like the current meta of builds. Melee/dps rogues have it rough atm. It seems everything is ranged and you're either chasing everything down, missing assassinates due to moving creeps, (gl grabbing 2 mobs) or you're the only melee and only person the mobs have access to.

We do pretty well in solo these days but throw a bunch of high level skellies and you're day is pretty rough.

itstheguy
03-13-2014, 12:40 PM
I don't know offhand if this includes the skeletons but some undead have life-force sense. Spiders have tremor sense which also detects you. I also have noticed dog type mobs seem to have a bonus to detecting sound against your move silently. Here is a section from the wiki which may help as well http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak I didn't see any info searching for sneak immune mobs specifically but I hope this helps.

Seikojin
03-13-2014, 01:24 PM
I don't know offhand if this includes the skeletons but some undead have [b]life-force sense[b]. Spiders have tremor sense which also detects you. I also have noticed dog type mobs seem to have a bonus to detecting sound against your move silently. Here is a section from the wiki which may help as well http://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak I didn't see any info searching for sneak immune mobs specifically but I hope this helps.

That. All undead are technically immune to sneak and invis. Or should be.

Lonnbeimnech
03-13-2014, 01:26 PM
Just aim for their vital organs.

Raoull
03-13-2014, 02:26 PM
Err.... sorry for the confusion.

I mean "Sneak Attack", not sneak. I was using that as a shorthand not realizing some people could think I'm just sneaking.

I have run around there invis plenty. It seems the Wraiths can sense you, but most everything else can't. Skellies certainly can't.

itstheguy
03-13-2014, 03:15 PM
I haven't been there and I don't doubt what you say about running around with the invisibility on but when I looked at that wiki article again it said the life-force sense can see thru invisibility as well. I'm still looking into it I am curious myself.

Shadow_Jumper
03-18-2014, 07:09 PM
Just get 2 Improved Deception weapons, and a Improved Deception ring, you'll be fine.

RoguemcStabby
03-18-2014, 07:29 PM
some blunt weapons are a start to beating up skelllies..

I think triple pos are still king in this situation, but I could be wrong...

deception/improved deception will help quite a bit..

otherwise, just let casters take care of them and pike.

Fhauvial
03-18-2014, 07:42 PM
The skeletons aren't completely immune to sneak. If you use a combination of armor piercing items, precision feat, and assassin's trick from the Assassin tree you can bypass 50%+ (minimum) of their fortification. You can even assassinate them if you get a lucky roll.

In a group, the best thing I can recommend (provided you're an assassin) is to concentrate on taking out the fleshy necromancers, then rejoin the group and DPS the skeletons as much as possible. You're looking at a 50% or so loss in DPS, but you can certainly still contribute. Playing as "first strike" against the casters in Thunderholme has worked very well for me so far.

The same goes with the raids. Let someone else handle the undead whenever possible, and go straight for the throat of the boss. That's my playstyle at least, YMMV.

CThruTheEgo
03-19-2014, 08:59 PM
Most undead do not have life force sense and it is easy to sneak past them.


some blunt weapons are a start to beating up skelllies..

I think triple pos are still king in this situation, but I could be wrong...

^This. I use dual triple pos light maces and handle undead just fine.


In a group, the best thing I can recommend (provided you're an assassin) is to concentrate on taking out the fleshy necromancers, then rejoin the group and DPS the skeletons as much as possible. You're looking at a 50% or so loss in DPS, but you can certainly still contribute. Playing as "first strike" against the casters in Thunderholme has worked very well for me so far.

The same goes with the raids. Let someone else handle the undead whenever possible, and go straight for the throat of the boss. That's my playstyle at least, YMMV.

^And this. Focus on how you can contribute the most. If I'm beating down an undead and see a fleshy, I'll drop into sneak and go assassinate it then go back to the undead.

Bolo_Grubb
03-19-2014, 10:53 PM
I've been able to sneak attack other undead, including TTO.

What does TTO stand for?


Err.... sorry for the confusion.

I mean "Sneak Attack", not sneak. I was using that as a shorthand not realizing some people could think I'm just sneaking.

I have run around there invis plenty. It seems the Wraiths can sense you, but most everything else can't. Skellies certainly can't.

Shorthand and abbreviations are always a bad idea. Spelling it out only takes a few seconds more and avoids confusion. Too many abbreviations have too many possible meanings and English is not a first language for everyone on these forums.

CThruTheEgo
03-20-2014, 06:25 AM
What does TTO stand for?

The Truthful One


Shorthand and abbreviations are always a bad idea. Spelling it out only takes a few seconds more and avoids confusion. Too many abbreviations have too many possible meanings and English is not a first language for everyone on these forums.

I tend to agree but... the internet.