PDA

View Full Version : List of complaints for Rangers



valkrei
02-27-2014, 07:31 PM
1. Why cant melee rangers get a stance that paralyzes similar to AA paralyze?
2. Resists seem low.
3. Gimped by light armor to keep evasion
4. Why oh why is the best pet I can summon only CR4? absolutely useless. Give us a real pet like the artificer has. Black Panther anyone?
5. Not sure why camo uses cats hair instead of camelions tail like all my other spells.
6. dance of death should last longer then 5 seconds.
7. An additional spell level we could cast would be awesome.

Teh_Troll
02-27-2014, 08:17 PM
Not sure if trolling . . .

valkrei
02-27-2014, 11:09 PM
1. Why cant melee rangers get a stance that paralyzes similar to AA paralyze?
2. Resists seem low.
3. Gimped by light armor to keep evasion
4. Why oh why is the best pet I can summon only CR4? absolutely useless. Give us a real pet like the artificer has. Black Panther anyone?
5. Not sure why camo uses cats hair instead of camelions tail like all my other spells.
6. dance of death should last longer then 5 seconds.
7. An additional spell level we could cast would be awesome.

why would a list of complaints about things that In my opinion need fixed be trolling?

Grailhawk
02-28-2014, 09:08 AM
Not sure if trolling . . .

Dude there's a Drizzt reference in there how can you not be sure.

Seikojin
02-28-2014, 11:03 AM
1. Why cant melee rangers get a stance that paralyzes similar to AA paralyze?
2. Resists seem low.
3. Gimped by light armor to keep evasion
4. Why oh why is the best pet I can summon only CR4? absolutely useless. Give us a real pet like the artificer has. Black Panther anyone?
5. Not sure why camo uses cats hair instead of camelions tail like all my other spells.
6. dance of death should last longer then 5 seconds.
7. An additional spell level we could cast would be awesome.

1. Because tempest does not spend time worrying about magic.
2. Because they are not wizards
3. This makes sense. They should be a class that gets evasion in light; as a tempest enhancement for level... 7.
4. Their pet should be upgradeable, oh wait, they don't get a pet. They get a summon spell. Not their mainstay for combat. There is a feat to help you with that.
5. haven't looked in a while, but I would wager because of its spell level.
6. It should be a stance.
8. Not in Pnp, not in ddo.

valkrei
02-28-2014, 08:30 PM
1. Because tempest does not spend time worrying about magic.
2. Because they are not wizards
3. This makes sense. They should be a class that gets evasion in light; as a tempest enhancement for level... 7.
4. Their pet should be upgradeable, oh wait, they don't get a pet. They get a summon spell. Not their mainstay for combat. There is a feat to help you with that.
5. haven't looked in a while, but I would wager because of its spell level.
6. It should be a stance.
8. Not in Pnp, not in ddo.

Appreicate your comments.

1. I think you could not be magic based and know critical locations to strike to cause paralysis, Hey if Jet li can can do it with a needle why can't my ranger.
2. I think when I talk about resists I am mainly speaking about traps. I know a ranger is not a rogue but my ranger can't pass through a trap to save his life and thats even with me being a Dex based ranger.
3. Just to be clear, If Rangers could keep evasion in Medium armor that would go along way to keeping them viable.
4. upgrade to pets, yes currently its just a summon spell, but even if I spent a feat at best my creature would only be CR8.
5. Spell level as a factor for component, at least that makes some sense.
6. Dance of death stance, would be cool, I am a drow tempest. Would have to swap out my venomed blade stance but the dance of death stance would be worth it easily.

blerkington
02-28-2014, 08:57 PM
Hi,

I think most of your problems with the class can be solved with better building and gearing.

1. If you want a paralysis effect in melee, use paralyzing weapons. I don't know of any movies in which Jet Li plays a ranger, but perhaps I missed that one. As for 'why can't I?', I think the real question here is 'why should you be able to do that?' How does the ability you want fit in the with theme of the class?

2. If by 'resists' you mean saving throws, then no, they aren't low. You have the best save progression in both Fortitude and Reflex. If you aren't making your saving throws for those two you may need to look at your gearing to boost your saves. There are also enhancements in the ranger trees which you can use to further increase your reflex saves.

Not regularly making saves really only becomes a serious problem for builds without divine grace in higher difficulty end game content. Even then there are plenty of ways to work around it.

3. Evasion is far, far more useful than medium armour. But you can still wear medium or even heavy armour if you want to do that, not that it would be a good idea. I'd suggest you look at your aggro management techniques instead, and invest in some way to get more dodge, as well as blurry, ghostly and displacement effects.

4. Like another poster mentioned, you have access to summons, not a pet. You might not know, but in DDO rangers got full lines of feats in both two weapon fighting and ranged to make up for the lack of the pet. Don't be upset about this, it makes your character very versatile, and means you don't have to worry about why you have a pet with wonky AI instead of half the feats you need.

5. How is this a problem exactly? Camouflage is not a useful spell unless you are sneaking. Casting it on other party members is usually a complete waste of time too, and when I see people doing that it's usually a warning sign that they are a weaker player.

6. No opinion about this.

7. Access to spells is based on PnP. Some unfortunately are missing in DDO. Take the cure and utility spells which are useful and forget the rest. You have a bunch of useful spells for party buffing and looking after yourself, but you are not an offensive caster.

You can get a lot of help with building and gearing by asking the right people. Complaining about the deficiencies of a class which many other people have made to work well is just unproductive.

Thanks.

Qhualor
02-28-2014, 09:43 PM
1. Why cant melee rangers get a stance that paralyzes similar to AA paralyze?
2. Resists seem low.
3. Gimped by light armor to keep evasion
4. Why oh why is the best pet I can summon only CR4? absolutely useless. Give us a real pet like the artificer has. Black Panther anyone?
5. Not sure why camo uses cats hair instead of camelions tail like all my other spells.
6. dance of death should last longer then 5 seconds.
7. An additional spell level we could cast would be awesome.

1. sounds like an enhancement. be cool to have, but there are some nice paralyzing named weapons in game.

2. not sure what you mean here. saves? its all in the build and gear. my ranger never really had what I would call a problem with saves.

3. would it make sense to have evasion in heavy armor?

4. yes. ranger pets are useless and not worth the sp to bother summoning. I cant imagine augment summoning and 3x druid past lives would be enough to still bother wasting the sp summoning them. if augment summoning was that good, than people would be suggesting to use a feat slot. they are still cr 4, but buffed up a little.

5. minor thing

6. I don't know what that is.

7. rangers are in desperate need for more useful spells. the spell levels are the same in PnP. most spells are either too weak or not worth the slot.

toaftoaf
02-28-2014, 10:05 PM
"5. How is this a problem exactly? Camouflage is not a useful spell unless you are sneaking. Casting it on other party members is usually a complete waste of time too, and when I see people doing that it's usually a warning sign that they are a weaker player."


or a player that doesnt like the bark or stone look

blerkington
02-28-2014, 10:18 PM
"5. How is this a problem exactly? Camouflage is not a useful spell unless you are sneaking. Casting it on other party members is usually a complete waste of time too, and when I see people doing that it's usually a warning sign that they are a weaker player."


or a player that doesnt like the bark or stone look

Hi,

Hope you've been well.

I think barkskin isn't a terribly useful spell either, but I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't like the appearance. If I cast barkskin, I usually cast stoneskin over it.

The fact that camo removes the stoneskin graphic is one more thing I don't like about it. Being able to see when stoneskin has disappeared on your character is more useful (to me anyway) than scanning an often very crowded buff bar.

One of the best spell fixes to DDO was when they removed the camo graphic. The old appearance basically made it a griefing tool, and what we have now is much better.

Thanks.

valkrei
03-01-2014, 02:08 AM
The problem with barkskin is that if you have enough of the right bonus from an item, it wont cast on you.

Best spells, heal and resists and after that pretty meh. I just think they could do something to make the spells you cast more relevant end game is all.

I also never said I wanted evasion in heavy armor, I said Medium. Right now there really are not many classes geared towards medium. Usually you see people in light or heavy.

Inoukchuk
03-04-2014, 01:04 PM
1. Why cant melee rangers get a stance that paralyzes similar to AA paralyze?
2. Resists seem low.
3. Gimped by light armor to keep evasion
4. Why oh why is the best pet I can summon only CR4? absolutely useless. Give us a real pet like the artificer has. Black Panther anyone?
5. Not sure why camo uses cats hair instead of camelions tail like all my other spells.
6. dance of death should last longer then 5 seconds.
7. An additional spell level we could cast would be awesome.

My list would go more like this:

1) tempest capstone is broken (supposed to be fixed next update) and generally not that good anyway
2) tempest tier 5s are useless. They should get something on par with kensei, assassin, etc. My personal opinion is that they should get full str bonus to offhand and imp evasion.
3) they should be the best archers in AA/DWS. The real problem here is that silly 10k stars shouldn't effect arrows, or at least should share a timer with manyshot and manyshot shouldn't debuff doubleshot which should be buffed if 10k is nerfed.
4) cure light should be a level 1 spell and something useful needs to be added to level 3 spell list. Level 4 gives FoM and cure serious.... I think all cures should be moved down a level and cure crit added to level 4.

Teh_Troll
03-04-2014, 01:10 PM
My list would go more like this:

1) tempest capstone is broken (supposed to be fixed next update) and generally not that good anyway
2) tempest tier 5s are useless. They should get something on par with kensei, assassin, etc. My personal opinion is that they should get full str bonus to offhand and imp evasion.
3) they should be the best archers in AA/DWS. The real problem here is that silly 10k stars shouldn't effect arrows, or at least should share a timer with manyshot and manyshot shouldn't debuff doubleshot which should be buffed if 10k is nerfed.
4) cure light should be a level 1 spell and something useful needs to be added to level 3 spell list. Level 4 gives FoM and cure serious.... I think all cures should be moved down a level and cure crit added to level 4.

Also remove the caster level limit on CSW. Do that, a little hjealing amp, and LOLz Reconstruct.

Lagin
03-04-2014, 01:16 PM
My list would go more like this:

1) tempest capstone is broken (supposed to be fixed next update) and generally not that good anyway
2) tempest tier 5s are useless. They should get something on par with kensei, assassin, etc. My personal opinion is that they should get full str bonus to offhand and imp evasion.
3) they should be the best archers in AA/DWS. The real problem here is that silly 10k stars shouldn't effect arrows, or at least should share a timer with manyshot and manyshot shouldn't debuff doubleshot which should be buffed if 10k is nerfed.
4) cure light should be a level 1 spell and something useful needs to be added to level 3 spell list. Level 4 gives FoM and cure serious.... I think all cures should be moved down a level and cure crit added to level 4.

Yet another example of a failed enhancement system overhaul.
As I stated in another thread, "without monk splashed in, the game passes you by"

Tempest got nerfed 3.5 years ago due to "bandwidth allocation of TWF" Since then, Tempest is a nick-nack on a shelf.
I used to take my Tempest into ToD and be at the top, if not lead the kill count. NOW? Just a paid piker in a raid.
Truly a shame the devs have purposely ignored the real potential of Tempest.
Add this to the "Enhancement Pass" failure we have to deal with.

Inoukchuk
03-04-2014, 01:31 PM
Also remove the caster level limit on CSW. Do that, a little hjealing amp, and LOLz Reconstruct.

In retrospect, the vigor spells didn't exist when the ranger spell list was created and would better fit the class as a nature hybrid and I think provide more overall healing. And some hamp would be nice, yes

Inoukchuk
03-04-2014, 01:37 PM
Yet another example of a failed enhancement system overhaul.
As I stated in another thread, "without monk splashed in, the game passes you by"

Tempest got nerfed 3.5 years ago due to "bandwidth allocation of TWF" Since then, Tempest is a nick-nack on a shelf.
I used to take my Tempest into ToD and be at the top, if not lead the kill count. NOW? Just a paid piker in a raid.
Truly a shame the devs have purposely ignored the real potential of Tempest.
Add this to the "Enhancement Pass" failure we have to deal with.

Twf isn't in terrible shape actually. The main drawbacks being:
1) a ranger/fighter can't splash both monk and paladin, having to choose one or the other (a problem sine both are OP for 2 level splash)
2) twf doesn't play well with cleave attacks making it slightly less preferable for blitz builds (though it benefits from blitz just fine)
3) tempest is flawed as detailed in my previous post

Teh_Troll
03-04-2014, 01:39 PM
Yet another example of a failed enhancement system overhaul.
As I stated in another thread, "without monk splashed in, the game passes you by"

Tempest got nerfed 3.5 years ago due to "bandwidth allocation of TWF" Since then, Tempest is a nick-nack on a shelf.
I used to take my Tempest into ToD and be at the top, if not lead the kill count. NOW? Just a paid piker in a raid.
Truly a shame the devs have purposely ignored the real potential of Tempest.
Add this to the "Enhancement Pass" failure we have to deal with.

Dude, rangers are fine. Seriously, they made out in the ENH pass.

Are they ridiculously OP like monks? No, but they are more powerful they they were before.

Teh_Troll
03-04-2014, 01:40 PM
Twf isn't in terrible shape actually. The main drawbacks being:
1) a ranger/fighter can't splash both monk and paladin, having to choose one or the other (a problem sine both are OP for 2 level splash)
2) twf doesn't play well with cleave attacks making it slightly less preferable for blitz builds (though it benefits from blitz just fine)
3) tempest is flawed as detailed in my previous post

Dude . . . TWFing is more powerful and the new weapons push that further along.

Lagin
03-04-2014, 01:44 PM
Dude, rangers are fine. Seriously, they made out in the ENH pass.

Are they ridiculously OP like monks? No, but they are more powerful they they were before.

Ok, I'll go with this.

Uska
03-04-2014, 01:52 PM
Appreicate your comments.

1. I think you could not be magic based and know critical locations to strike to cause paralysis, Hey if Jet li can can do it with a needle why can't my ranger.
2. I think when I talk about resists I am mainly speaking about traps. I know a ranger is not a rogue but my ranger can't pass through a trap to save his life and thats even with me being a Dex based ranger.
3. Just to be clear, If Rangers could keep evasion in Medium armor that would go along way to keeping them viable.
4. upgrade to pets, yes currently its just a summon spell, but even if I spent a feat at best my creature would only be CR8.
5. Spell level as a factor for component, at least that makes some sense.
6. Dance of death stance, would be cool, I am a drow tempest. Would have to swap out my venomed blade stance but the dance of death stance would be worth it easily.

'Rangers don't get a pet instead they got both the melee and range lines if you got a pet you would have to choose which line to specialize in and then you would get a pet at half the strength of a druid or artie. well that's how it worked in pnp and no way should they get a pet as strong as the pet class as that would be a indirect nerf to those classes. Rangers shouldn't get any more spell levels

knightgf
03-04-2014, 02:17 PM
My list would go more like this:

1) tempest capstone is broken (supposed to be fixed next update) and generally not that good anyway
2) tempest tier 5s are useless. They should get something on par with kensei, assassin, etc. My personal opinion is that they should get full str bonus to offhand and imp evasion.
3) they should be the best archers in AA/DWS. The real problem here is that silly 10k stars shouldn't effect arrows, or at least should share a timer with manyshot and manyshot shouldn't debuff doubleshot which should be buffed if 10k is nerfed.
4) cure light should be a level 1 spell and something useful needs to be added to level 3 spell list. Level 4 gives FoM and cure serious.... I think all cures should be moved down a level and cure crit added to level 4.



I would agree, considering that most, but not all capstones are broken or useless.
Idk about full str bonus to offhand, wouldn't seem that powerful, but improved invasion, maybe...
They should be the best archers, period. Isn't that why the class is named 'Ranger'? They should be called something else than rangers, maybe stalkers would work. Idk what Turbine is thinking, ranged combat is all screwed up unless your a x-bow user who can apply a damage mod to their bow along with other things...
I admit that it's nice they tried to follow PnP but it's not nice that it's pretty useless.

Kawai
03-04-2014, 02:36 PM
'Rangers don't get a pet instead they got both the melee and range lines if you got a pet you would have to choose which line to specialize in and then you would get a pet at half the strength of a druid or artie. well that's how it worked in pnp and no way should they get a pet as strong as the pet class as that would be a indirect nerf to those classes. Rangers shouldn't get any more spell levels

last i checked? this isn't PnP.

yes way. screw the metal clanking dogz and the WfG lemmings who run around with them. gahhhh theyre everywhere.

whatever.
Deadly Please. :)
now go break some boxes, b useful.
chop chop

hardly a nerf to other classes -nor their fanboys. oops. sorry. i meant fantrolls.
there go. all peaches now?

btw... all these issues are ancient. nothing will change. why worry about what someone else wants, when it obviously does NOT pertain to you?
Control Freak MUCH?

The OP is obviously new, and quite frankly, its THAT opinion the Devs SHOULD worry about. Someone can walk right into game & find just how WRONG some aspects are. its that ez.

heh... cr 4 summoned pet. and you worry about another class crying @ nerfy sticked.

as if.
qft

/signed -Tempest's need Luvz 2

Kawai
03-04-2014, 02:41 PM
4. ...Black Panther anyone?

still voting for Dire Tiger :)

Teh_Troll
03-04-2014, 02:44 PM
I want a pet halfling.

Uska
03-04-2014, 03:12 PM
last i checked? this isn't PnP.

yes way. screw the metal clanking dogz and the WfG lemmings who run around with them. gahhhh theyre everywhere.

whatever.
Deadly Please. :)
now go break some boxes, b useful.
chop chop

hardly a nerf to other classes -nor their fanboys. oops. sorry. i meant fantrolls.
there go. all peaches now?

btw... all these issues are ancient. nothing will change. why worry about what someone else wants, when it obviously does NOT pertain to you?
Control Freak MUCH?

The OP is obviously new, and quite frankly, its THAT opinion the Devs SHOULD worry about. Someone can walk right into game & find just how WRONG some aspects are. its that ez.

heh... cr 4 summoned pet. and you worry about another class crying @ nerfy sticked.

as if.
qft

/signed -Tempest's need Luvz 2

No but was explain why no pet and why I agree with how it is and yes I will argue against it changing until ddo closes and yes I play rangers, druids and arties and I hate the pests of those that already have them and no it wasn't a typo I considered them pests not pets.

Torvaldsberg
03-04-2014, 04:49 PM
Personally, I would rather see the pets/companions be a sort of visual buff. Maybe a ferret that gives +1 to spot/search, a falcon that adds +1 to hit or damage for ranged weapons, something like that. They could be a feat granted at whatever level, so you would have to pick one that matched your play style and stick with it. maybe an enhancement or two to beef it up later in life. Definitely nothing over-powered, just a little eye-candy with a tiny bit of bonus. Oh, and viewing them should be able to be optional, so you don't have to see everyone's critters unless you want to.

valkrei
03-08-2014, 12:16 AM
Personally, I would rather see the pets/companions be a sort of visual buff. Maybe a ferret that gives +1 to spot/search, a falcon that adds +1 to hit or damage for ranged weapons, something like that. They could be a feat granted at whatever level, so you would have to pick one that matched your play style and stick with it. maybe an enhancement or two to beef it up later in life. Definitely nothing over-powered, just a little eye-candy with a tiny bit of bonus. Oh, and viewing them should be able to be optional, so you don't have to see everyone's critters unless you want to.

that would make them a familier. I just know the most legenday ranger in DND history had an awesome pet/companion he summoned. I don't think the concent is far fetched, it doesnt even have to be as strong as the artificers, but the best i can do right now is CR 4 or 8 if i waste a feat. Pretty lowsy.

Fhauvial
03-08-2014, 01:06 AM
that would make them a familier. I just know the most legenday ranger in DND history had an awesome pet/companion he summoned. I don't think the concent is far fetched, it doesnt even have to be as strong as the artificers, but the best i can do right now is CR 4 or 8 if i waste a feat. Pretty lowsy.

Not only this, but they were a core feature of the class. The term you're looking for is 'Animal Companion'. I was very disappointed when I first started playing the game and realized they didn't give Rangers such an iconic aspect of their class. It was one of the reasons I always enjoyed Rangers in PnP. And then they gave Druids the same feature from their core 3.5e class, and my heart broke a little..

Keep in mind, however, that in 3.5e a Ranger's caster level is ONE HALF their level, and they don't gain CLs until level 4. Do I think Ranger spells need improvement? Yes, most definitely.


still voting for Dire Tiger :)

Magebred Ghost Tiger ALL THE WAY (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/magebred-ghost-tiger).

Not that it'll never happen. I hope it doesn't either, seeing as I had to consciously hold myself back in 3.5e encounters so as to not completely overshadow the other characters in the group. I still remember my first encounter on my Druid, wiping out almost an entire battalion of orcs with one well-coordinated muderous mist. The ones that didn't die instantly from being scalded alive? We argued about throwing them in the river for half an hour when they wouldn't talk, and eventually left them bound and (permanently) blinded in the middle of the forest. Between that and my animal companion and her insane grapple ability, my power level was so much higher I was holding myself back 95% of the time.



They should be the best archers, period. Isn't that why the class is named 'Ranger'? They should be called something else than rangers, maybe stalkers would work. Idk what Turbine is thinking, ranged combat is all screwed up unless your a x-bow user who can apply a damage mod to their bow along with other things...


This is not, in fact, why they are called Rangers. In 3.5e, the Ranger is more of a "Wanderer" archetype--it was directly influenced by Tolkien's Ranger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_%28Middle-earth%29). The name has nothing to do with archery, although they do make some of the best ranged characters if you take the archery line of the Improved Combat Mastery (Ex) abilities and make other appropriate build choices.

Not that I disagree, they should definitely make the best archers, especially in DDO.

Daze
03-08-2014, 12:05 PM
Personally, I would rather see the pets/companions be a sort of visual buff. Maybe a ferret that gives +1 to spot/search, a falcon that adds +1 to hit or damage for ranged weapons, something like that. They could be a feat granted at whatever level, so you would have to pick one that matched your play style and stick with it. maybe an enhancement or two to beef it up later in life. Definitely nothing over-powered, just a little eye-candy with a tiny bit of bonus. Oh, and viewing them should be able to be optional, so you don't have to see everyone's critters unless you want to.

Now that you mention it ... DDO is the only MMO I have ever played where you can have a non combat pet that does nothing for you except to count towards your 15 pieces of flare..... from Everquest to Neverwinter those things were useful. In DDO they are just portable lag generators.

valkrei
03-10-2014, 07:40 AM
A good boost to our spells we can cast would be to make the resist spell more like the protection spell that gives mass everything.

So Mass fire,sonic,elec,cold,acid resist. at a reasonable spell point cost.

Hiponic
03-10-2014, 07:46 AM
What are you guys complaining about! Having the Paralyze Arrows? Slayer Arrows? Granted TWF.. You guys can only get so much.

valkrei
03-10-2014, 07:20 PM
What are you guys complaining about! Having the Paralyze Arrows? Slayer Arrows? Granted TWF.. You guys can only get so much.

I am a tempest ranger, not an AA.

Grailhawk
03-10-2014, 08:40 PM
Tempest Rangers are in the best shape that they have been in since the U5 Tempest nerf.

About the only legitimate complaint that can be made is that Tempest tier 5 enhancements are lame, and really with as good as Deepwood and AA are that's not that big an issue.

pie2655
03-10-2014, 08:45 PM
Hi, i think these are good ideas. Current ranger summons lack the potency I need to solo ToD.

Torvaldsberg
03-10-2014, 10:19 PM
Now that you mention it ... DDO is the only MMO I have ever played where you can have a non combat pet that does nothing for you except to count towards your 15 pieces of flare..... from Everquest to Neverwinter those things were useful. In DDO they are just portable lag generators.

Heh...EQ2 had fluff pets... I had an ogre that had a little animate purple mushroom that followed him around...called it 'Mr Happy'.

MangLord
03-19-2014, 05:37 AM
Given how useful the Arty and Druid dogs are, I consider the lack of a ranger pet a blessing. (Pale Master skeleton is surprisingly useful at lower levels) The only time I summon mine is when I'm not strong enough to pull a lever, or in PoP. The waste of space in arty enhancement trees is a travesty, given the limited options.

You have to realize that druids and artificers are classes you pay for, so like monk, they're going to be innately more powerful than a free, basic class. Whether I agree with that logic or not, that's how it is. We all know monk is pay to win. It's hard to screw up a pure monk build.

I'd rather an extra feat instead of the favored enemy stuff. I've never noticed any difference in effectiveness against my chosen enemies. Seems like a pnp holdover. I feel like I have to be very careful with my feats, and there's always one more I wish I could take.

For ranger spells, I only use buffs and never ever summons, entangle or that thorn bush thing. Without taking magic feats, they're basically pointless. Maybe ok on casual or normal. Who knows. Rangers don't get enough feat slots to make that stuff worthwhile.

The top tier tempest stuff is ok for level 12-16, but its a waste of a hotbar slot above that. Never has Dance of Death saved the day. Improved critical range or something of that nature would be far more relevant.

Grailhawk
03-19-2014, 09:20 AM
I'd rather an extra feat instead of the favored enemy stuff. I've never noticed any difference in effectiveness against my chosen enemies. Seems like a pnp holdover. I feel like I have to be very careful with my feats, and there's always one more I wish I could take.


By level 15 the +8 to damage is very noticeable if you pay attention to you damage numbers, and with all the auto-grant feats given to a Ranger they are the least feat starved class after Fighter.

MangLord
03-20-2014, 12:38 PM
That is true. Rangers do get a lot of feats when i think about it. It would be nice to "opt out" of the TWF stuff in favor of more bow feats, but overall it's nothing like paladin.

Overall, i feel like ranger is more fun to play with the new enhancement pass. At least it didn't get the shaft like artificer.

Grailhawk
03-20-2014, 01:34 PM
That is true. Rangers do get a lot of feats when i think about it. It would be nice to "opt out" of the TWF stuff in favor of more bow feats, but overall it's nothing like paladin.

Overall, i feel like ranger is more fun to play with the new enhancement pass. At least it didn't get the shaft like artificer.

The class is designed to play as a melee who switches to a bow for large burst damage. If you are not playing like that you really aren't playing to the classes strengths.

Fitting in 6 monk changes that and allows you to keep the bow full time if that is what you are looking for that also adds in 3 more feat that you can play with.

This system is flex able enough that you don't need to petition to change the good classes to fit your style, you can just build to it.

xberto
03-21-2014, 11:45 AM
3) they should be the best archers in AA/DWS. The real problem here is that silly 10k stars shouldn't effect arrows, or at least should share a timer with manyshot and manyshot shouldn't debuff doubleshot which should be buffed if 10k is nerfed.

I concur that a pure Ranger should be, at least, in the debate for best ranged DPS in the game. I don't however think you need to nerf the 10K stars. I think the DWS and AA capstones should just eliminate the doubleshot penalty, following manyshot.

valkrei
04-04-2014, 12:08 AM
Also important to note that there is 1 melee enhancement tree and 2 range trees. would be nice if one of the trees was a hybrid.

thegreatneil
04-04-2014, 12:37 AM
Also important to note that there is 1 melee enhancement tree and 2 range trees. would be nice if one of the trees was a hybrid.

Deepwood Stalker is.

valkrei
04-04-2014, 07:38 AM
Deepwood Stalker is.

Outside of improved sneaking I guess the first tier is all about ranged. It seems heavily favored range or to improve sneak.

There are a few good things for melee but to far into the tree to even bother.

Linvak
04-04-2014, 08:20 AM
Also important to note that there is 1 melee enhancement tree and 2 range trees. would be nice if one of the trees was a hybrid.

I'm not really sure what a hybrid tree means when you can mix between multiple trees. Not to mention all the free feats a ranger gets in general. A tempest with manyshot is pretty hybrid to me. And even an AA can whip out some light Weaps and still do dmg. You can't have the best of both worlds haha...

As far as deepwood goes, I think a lot of the enhancements are cool and interesting. But other then dipping in for a few SA dice, killer (which is sadly super expensive and not that great for epics), spell power, and favored dmg, going to tier 5 just isn't worth it. The only thing I see worth spending 30+ is that capstone, but now ur pure ranger with like a max 7d6 unless SD.

I don't know much about ranged, but I don't know if 7d6, +20% dmg (when not kiting and no imp ps), and +5 dmg outweighs tier 5 AA with +1 crit multiplier. Or the survivability of a moncher.

If they made DWS capstone a tier 5 enhancement, now you have some interesting builds but possibly OP, I'm not sure.

Grailhawk
04-04-2014, 01:27 PM
Outside of improved sneaking I guess the first tier is all about ranged. It seems heavily favored range or to improve sneak.

There are a few good things for melee but to far into the tree to even bother.

Between the Sneak Attack Dice and the Devotion there is plenty enough in Deepwood Stalker for a melee/hybrid ranger to spend point to build up to the higher tier stuff like Improved Favored Damage and Killer, and Sniper Shot is a good enhancement for a hybrid Ranger it helps make up for the loss of Slayer Arrows.

Teh_Troll
04-04-2014, 01:58 PM
All the upper tier tempest stuff sucks, not worth investing in.

Leaves you plenty to invest in other trees on a hybrid build.

Micron
04-11-2014, 06:17 AM
Deepwood Stalker is my main tree on my ranger who's primarily a melee. Except for Leg Shot (+ prereq), Heavy Draw and capstone, everything I have from the tree improves melee.

Sneak Attack Dice, positive spellpower, Exposing Strike + Tendon Cut, Improved Favoured Damage, extra Favoured Enemy, Killer, Damage Boost, even Mark of the Hunted. Lots of melee goodness.

Ausdoerrt
04-11-2014, 06:48 AM
Broken/useless capstone is a common theme of the ehn pass, which is why multis are so popular now. So get a deep fighter splash and get kensei T5s.

Cryptobranchus
04-15-2014, 10:23 AM
You have pointed out a few things that have ALWAYS annoyed me with the Ranger class.

First off, is the fact that Rangers in the paper game have the ability to have companions (just like Artificers and Druids do in DDO). The best companion they can have in game is a lvl 20 panther hireling (Not every one has access to that if they did not pre-order MOTU). What does that tell you? Rangers can summon help, BUT for whatever reason DDO is HELL BENT on giving Rangers the short-end of the stick (or whatever phrase best suits). It has driven me nuts for nearly 5 years now!!!

Four spell levels received at lvl 4, 8, 12 and 16. Every other class can summon a monster to help them fight AND that monster is either at the level of when the spell was available or close to it. Rangers get their 4th level spells at level 16 and they can only summon a level 4 monster???!!! ***!!!! ... It totally undermines what the Ranger is and can do and it has offended me ever since.

Another thing is that there is only ONE useful path for the Ranger. Others can argue that the Tempest is useful and I will point out to them that it is ONLY if you cross-class. Otherwise, in its pure form, it has been nerfed to high hell! Arcane Archer, however, can be played pure or used to improve other bow-weilding builds and it seems to be favored by DDO.

As for Evasion ... Rangers never got Improved Evasion. And, light or no armor seems the way to go these days IF you are intending to do epic. However, I do agree with you. Rangers are notoriously squishy. But, I don't think more armor is the answer.

schelsullivan
04-15-2014, 10:39 AM
My ranger is just fine, Im heavily in AA but with FoTW destiny filling out my melee. He is self sufficient, he can range, he can melee.

He is my first toon from 5 years ago, been pure ranger the whole time with 3 ranger past lives. IMHO rangers are in the best place they have been since ive been playing.

BOgre
04-15-2014, 11:16 AM
I've basically abandoned all my alts EXCEPT my Tempest. I love the class, playstyle, versatility, everything. My only complaints right now with the Ranger class are:

1. Tier 5 Tempest is horrible. Worse than horrible. Dance of Death and Thousand Cuts should have a longer duration and a shorter cooldown. Their cooldowns should have a reset mechanism similar to (Great)Cleave/Momentum Swing/Lay Waste. My suggestion would be DoD and The Growing Storm have a chance to reset each other, and Bleed Them Out has a chance to reset Thousand Cuts.

2. Doubleshot Penalty and Ranged Alacrity. Ranged speed bonuses have been borked/wonky since forever. Fix the animation speed so that boost description numbers actually represent boosted values in combat. Post-Manyshot Doubleshot Penalty should be reduced/eliminated with ranger 18 and/or 20.


That said, things like a spell pass, summons pass, AC/PRR pass, etc. are all fine ideas and I'd support them. I'd MUCH MUCH rather see bow/quiver weapon sets, arrows within quivers be hotbar-able, and maybe a Wand/Scroll mastery ability in the DwS or AA trees.

Grailhawk
04-15-2014, 11:44 AM
Another thing is that there is only ONE useful path for the Ranger. Others can argue that the Tempest is useful and I will point out to them that it is ONLY if you cross-class. Otherwise, in its pure form, it has been nerfed to high hell! Arcane Archer, however, can be played pure or used to improve other bow-weilding builds and it seems to be favored by DDO. .

Pure 20 tempest ranger hits every flavor of the month button there is high burst damage with manyshot, high melee dps (the capstone adds enough that the math says it can be as good as a centered kensei), and excellent self healing.

The only legitimate complaint with Tempest is week tier 5 enhancement, though Improved Evasion isn't horrible, its just to pricey.

Saekee
04-15-2014, 12:01 PM
To the OP, like blerklington stated, you can get paralyzers if you want to as weapons; they are simply not toggles like you wish. There is Widowblight (http://ddowiki.com/page/Widowblight) but it would require some quest farming. It is the best heroic paralyzer (for the pure purpose of paralyzing) since it debuffs the stat that resists paralyzing. If you go Khopesh you can pick up the level 12+ Elemental Khopesh of water (http://ddowiki.com/page/Elemental_Khopesh_of_Water) from the Cannith Challenges. If you also can make it tier 3 with Masterful, that gives it min level 10. (Widowblight paired with the Elemental Khopesh is a killer combo, as both benefit from IC: Slashing).

The Envenomed Blade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Envenomed_Blade), a shortsword, is Min level 16 and does crappy damage, but does paralyze; it works well with Monks and sting of the Ninja. (I have a level 16 monk with sting and I find the blade mostly useless at that level...) I have seen some lootgen paralyzers, and you can get a Cormyrian weapon from the Eveningstar Challenges (http://ddowiki.com/page/Eveningstar_Challenge_Pack) with paralyzing on it if you are lucky (I have a paralyzing shuriken from there).

TheLegendOfAra
04-16-2014, 05:10 AM
You have pointed out a few things that have ALWAYS annoyed me with the Ranger class.

First off, is the fact that Rangers in the paper game have the ability to have companions (just like Artificers and Druids do in DDO). The best companion they can have in game is a lvl 20 panther hireling (Not every one has access to that if they did not pre-order MOTU). What does that tell you? Rangers can summon help, BUT for whatever reason DDO is HELL BENT on giving Rangers the short-end of the stick (or whatever phrase best suits). It has driven me nuts for nearly 5 years now!!!

Four spell levels received at lvl 4, 8, 12 and 16. Every other class can summon a monster to help them fight AND that monster is either at the level of when the spell was available or close to it. Rangers get their 4th level spells at level 16 and they can only summon a level 4 monster???!!! ***!!!! ... It totally undermines what the Ranger is and can do and it has offended me ever since.

Another thing is that there is only ONE useful path for the Ranger. Others can argue that the Tempest is useful and I will point out to them that it is ONLY if you cross-class. Otherwise, in its pure form, it has been nerfed to high hell! Arcane Archer, however, can be played pure or used to improve other bow-weilding builds and it seems to be favored by DDO.

As for Evasion ... Rangers never got Improved Evasion. And, light or no armor seems the way to go these days IF you are intending to do epic. However, I do agree with you. Rangers are notoriously squishy. But, I don't think more armor is the answer.

It's amazing how much is just plain wrong about what you just posted...

Firstly, Rangers get their spells as levels 4,7(?),11, and 14.
Rangers in DDO have no use for pets for the most part, just like Arti's and Druid's pets are pretty useless to them after a certain point.
By level 10 they're only useful as a lever puller. Since they don't get pets in DDO they get both TWF feats and Ranged feats for free.
Do I want to have pets at the cost of DPS, survivability, and versatility? NopeNopeNopeNope.

Secondly, Tempest is in the best place it's been in the game since the WOP days.
There was a thread up on here somewhere just recently that put a pure 20 Ranger Tempest with the fixed capstone at equal if not better DPS than that of a centered Kensai. And while Math really doesn't prove anything, the fact that in the fastest times thread in the achievements there is a Tempest build by Eth that is just kicking ass. Soloing EE's, possibly even some raids(Although I am not 100% sure on that.)...
Tempests are strong right now.

Rangers do not need improved evasion.
No one does. And I'm glad we don't have it.
If you build your tons correctly Evasion is all you will ever need.

Which lead to my last point; Rangers are arguably one of the most fleshed out classes in DDO right now. Other than a couple minor things(tier 5 Tempest, more useful spells, etc) Rangers are better off now than a lot of classes in DDO. I've always found it funny how people complain and ridicule a class because they do not understand how the class should work, what it's good at and what it's bad at, or how to build them.

If you look at what the class can do, and how to optimize that potential you come up with some very powerful builds.
Looking at it, and comparing it to another class and saying "Wahh! that class can do this, why can't I?!?!!" and the decrying that Rangers are weak is just silly, and you should feel silly for doing it.

I'll also go on to say that if you're playing a pure Ranger and you only play play ranged, or you only play melee, you're doing it wrong.
Unless you admit you're playing a flavor build, you're playing the Ranger class wrong and as such you have no right to complain about it's effectiveness.


Pure 20 tempest ranger hits every flavor of the month button there is high burst damage with manyshot, high melee dps (the capstone adds enough that the math says it can be as good as a centered kensei), and excellent self healing.

The only legitimate complaint with Tempest is week tier 5 enhancement, though Improved Evasion isn't horrible, its just to pricey.

I agree with this completely, although as someone who really likes to play a mixed style of ranged and melee, I would say that on average the less than perfect tier 5 Tempest stuff has never bothered me because Slayer arrows have always come first. So I'm happy with how it is now, but I would be thrilled to see new and improved teri 5 Tempest stuff to play with.

Irongutz2000
04-16-2014, 05:38 AM
Rangers do not need improved evasion.
No one does. And I'm glad we don't have it.
If you build your tons correctly Evasion is all you will ever need.



.

Show me a 80 reflex pure ranger and I may agree with u

TheLegendOfAra
04-16-2014, 05:51 AM
Show me a 80 reflex pure ranger and I may agree with u

You don't need an 80 Reflex save...
Mid/high seventies is good enough for EE Raids.

I haven't tried to really maxed my reflex save on a Pure ranger in a while, but I want to say when my main was capped and a pure ranger on her first life(Str based AA) she had high 50's saves. That was around U14/15, so now mid sixties should be easy to get to. While not the best, it should suffice for group play, if not soloing in the toughest EE quests/raids.

All Improved Evasion does is half damage taken from failed saves.
Which is great, don't get me wrong.
But it is not needed.

But I also do not play just pure Rangers, so YMMV.
I enjoy multiclassing.

Irongutz2000
04-16-2014, 03:48 PM
You don't need an 80 Reflex save...
Mid/high seventies is good enough for EE Raids.

I haven't tried to really maxed my reflex save on a Pure ranger in a while, but I want to say when my main was capped and a pure ranger on her first life(Str based AA) she had high 50's saves. That was around U14/15, so now mid sixties should be easy to get to. While not the best, it should suffice for group play, if not soloing in the toughest EE quests/raids.

All Improved Evasion does is half damage taken from failed saves.
Which is great, don't get me wrong.
But it is not needed.

But I also do not play just pure Rangers, so YMMV.
I enjoy multiclassing.

U may build ur toons for EH content but for EE's improved evasion is nice, u will always roll a 1 and onn a capped, no pali lvl str based ranger, reflex is 60's still not good enough for some EE's

Teh_Troll
04-16-2014, 03:55 PM
Mid/high seventies is good enough for EE Raids.


How do you get that without pally levels or shenanigans?

Dex-based?

Zoda
04-16-2014, 04:07 PM
Mid/high seventies is good enough for EE Raids.


Do an EE Thunder Peak and say that again ;)

Nightmanis
04-16-2014, 05:42 PM
Do an EE Thunder Peak and say that again ;)

I'm pretty sure there are people who have done it without having even evasion. You just need the focus of a brain surgeon and the reflexes of a coked out squirrel.

Uska
04-16-2014, 06:12 PM
need to pay attention and learn when I have already responded to a thread

Uska
04-16-2014, 06:19 PM
Not only this, but they were a core feature of the class. The term you're looking for is 'Animal Companion'. I was very disappointed when I first started playing the game and realized they didn't give Rangers such an iconic aspect of their class. It was one of the reasons I always enjoyed Rangers in PnP. And then they gave Druids the same feature from their core 3.5e class, and my heart broke a little..

Keep in mind, however, that in 3.5e a Ranger's caster level is ONE HALF their level, and they don't gain CLs until level 4. Do I think Ranger spells need improvement? Yes, most definitely.



Magebred Ghost Tiger ALL THE WAY (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/magebred-ghost-tiger).

Not that it'll never happen. I hope it doesn't either, seeing as I had to consciously hold myself back in 3.5e encounters so as to not completely overshadow the other characters in the group. I still remember my first encounter on my Druid, wiping out almost an entire battalion of orcs with one well-coordinated muderous mist. The ones that didn't die instantly from being scalded alive? We argued about throwing them in the river for half an hour when they wouldn't talk, and eventually left them bound and (permanently) blinded in the middle of the forest. Between that and my animal companion and her insane grapple ability, my power level was so much higher I was holding myself back 95% of the time.



This is not, in fact, why they are called Rangers. In 3.5e, the Ranger is more of a "Wanderer" archetype--it was directly influenced by Tolkien's Ranger (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_%28Middle-earth%29). The name has nothing to do with archery, although they do make some of the best ranged characters if you take the archery line of the Improved Combat Mastery (Ex) abilities and make other appropriate build choices.

Not that I disagree, they should definitely make the best archers, especially in DDO.


Ranger pets are half the level of a druids pet and which of your free feats would want to give up to gain it your free melee feats or your free ranged feats?

TheLegendOfAra
04-16-2014, 09:25 PM
U may build ur toons for EH content but for EE's improved evasion is nice, u will always roll a 1 and onn a capped, no pali lvl str based ranger, reflex is 60's still not good enough for some EE's

I don't run EH content unless I'm farming for XP. Otherwise I strictly run EE.

I'm aware of what a Pure 20 Ranger is capable of, and what it is not.
I'm not saying Improved Evasion isn't nice. I'm saying it's not needed.

And I'll say it again, I enjoy playing multiclass toons. My Ranger is an 11Ranger/6Monk/3Pali right now.
I don't advocate playing pure builds, I advocate playing what you think is fun, and what you enjoy.
If that happens to be pure, good on you. If not, it's doesn't matter to me.

But I'm also not upset if I die in an EE quest/raid. Especially not on a Pure Ranger.
S h i t happens, and Pure Rangers can't do everything. They will die eventually, and that's okay.

Havok.cry
04-16-2014, 10:44 PM
-If you want your ranger to have a better summons, use a scroll, a clicky, or twist in elder dryad/magister summons.
-I dislike melee and wish I could trade those feats out for almost anything. A pet would be more useful to me, even if it is only for boxes and levers, but I would really like to trade them out for mounted combat.
-DWS tree is awesome for either tempest or AA due to sneak attack and positive spell power.
-Ranger should be better at being a ranger than any other class, note that this is different than being a better archer. If all of it's stuff was working, it would actually be a better ranger than non-rangers are.
-I would like the ranger to get bow/twf innate spells similar to the druid animal/elemental innate spells. This woudl give them something to fill in their spell list with, and give a much needed counterpoint to 10k stars.
-Debuff to doubleshot is ********, it needs to go, either that or cleave should debuff doublestrike. (yes, the last half of this statement is, in fact, trolling)

Personally, I like what pathfinder did with rangers and wish DDO would take more from that system, than it does from 4th edition. That will never happen, but I can wish.

Eth
04-17-2014, 02:52 AM
I'm pretty sure there are people who have done it without having even evasion.

Evasion doesn't matter in there anyway if you can't get to a mid 90 save. So practically yes.
That's one of the rare quests where improved evasion makes a lot of a difference.