Ninja Spy & Weapon finesse

[Sthax]

Planning on building a Dex -Based melee Clonk.

but i'm not sure if i need to take the weapon finesse feat...

as a 7 lvl monk i can take the first 3 ninja spy base enhancements.


Basic Ninja Training: You are proficient with short swords and treat them as Ki weapons. While you are centered, you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit with piercing and slashing weapons.
AP Cost: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Monk Level 1

Advanced Ninja Training: While you are centered, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with piercing and slashing weapons. You also gain a chance based on your Dexterity score to throw an extra shuriken per attack.
AP Cost: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Monk Level 3, Basic Ninja Training

Does this mean I dont need to take weapon finesse as long as i'm using slashing weapons? So unarmed would not work? and also the dmg would fall away? or atleast will fall back on my STR.


I'll TR out of a first life Fighter with +5 tome, so my stats would be pretty high eventually.




Stunning Fist

Cost: 15 Ki
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Usage: Active
Prerequisite: Flurry of Blows
Description
A swift unarmed attack to vulnerable areas that cause your target to be stunned for 6 seconds if it fails a (DC = 10 + half character levels + Wis mod + other modifiers) Fortitude save.

Note
For many players, Stunning Fist is often the first, if not the preferred, initial attack that a Monk will make.
It can be used over twice as often as Stunning Blow, which has a 15 second cooldown. With enough ki, a monk could keep an enemy in a state of permanent stun.
The DC is 10 + half Character level + Wisdom modifier + Stunning item bonus.
Stunning Fist's effectiveness is augmented by a Monk's WIS modifier as well as any items with Stunning enhancements.
Any item, Epic Destiny ability, or Epic Destiny Feats which boosts Tactics DC will also increase the effectiveness of Stunning Fist.
Stunning Fist does work on living constructs (such as Warforged). It does not work on constructs, elementals or undead.
Stunning Fist can only be used while unarmed.
A Monk may select this feat as one of his martial arts feats.


Stunning Blow

Cooldown: 15 seconds
Usage: Active
Description
Using this melee special attack, you may stun the target for 6 seconds. Stunned creatures are considered helpless. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + Str mod + other modifiers)

Although i would be ok to use kama or shortswords I'd also like to get stunning fist. Would this work with the kama's or shortswords? Or do i need to take Stunning blow, wich would gimp as it is a STR based feat... gues that question is answerd.

Is it playable to switch to stun wraps to stun a target, to switch back to slashing for dps?
A druid would be pretty good with this as wolf-form makes the dmg slashing, but still is a unarmed attack. Maybe a Dronk would be better synergy.


Some insight would be much appreciated.
Thnx.

[Saekee]

Planning on building a Dex -Based melee Clonk.

but i'm not sure if i need to take the weapon finesse feat...

as a 7 lvl monk i can take the first 3 ninja spy base enhancements.


Basic Ninja Training: You are proficient with short swords and treat them as Ki weapons. While you are centered, you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit with piercing and slashing weapons.
AP Cost: 1 Progression: 0 Requires: Monk Level 1

Advanced Ninja Training: While you are centered, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with piercing and slashing weapons. You also gain a chance based on your Dexterity score to throw an extra shuriken per attack.
AP Cost: 1 Progression: 5 Requires: Monk Level 3, Basic Ninja Training

Does this mean I dont need to take weapon finesse as long as i'm using slashing weapons? So unarmed would not work? and also the dmg would fall away? or atleast will fall back on my STR.


I'll TR out of a first life Fighter with +5 tome, so my stats would be pretty high eventually.




Stunning Fist

Cost: 15 Ki
Cooldown: 6 seconds
Usage: Active
Prerequisite: Flurry of Blows
Description
A swift unarmed attack to vulnerable areas that cause your target to be stunned for 6 seconds if it fails a (DC = 10 + half character levels + Wis mod + other modifiers) Fortitude save.

Note
For many players, Stunning Fist is often the first, if not the preferred, initial attack that a Monk will make.
It can be used over twice as often as Stunning Blow, which has a 15 second cooldown. With enough ki, a monk could keep an enemy in a state of permanent stun.
The DC is 10 + half Character level + Wisdom modifier + Stunning item bonus.
Stunning Fist's effectiveness is augmented by a Monk's WIS modifier as well as any items with Stunning enhancements.
Any item, Epic Destiny ability, or Epic Destiny Feats which boosts Tactics DC will also increase the effectiveness of Stunning Fist.
Stunning Fist does work on living constructs (such as Warforged). It does not work on constructs, elementals or undead.
Stunning Fist can only be used while unarmed.
A Monk may select this feat as one of his martial arts feats.


Stunning Blow

Cooldown: 15 seconds
Usage: Active
Description
Using this melee special attack, you may stun the target for 6 seconds. Stunned creatures are considered helpless. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + Str mod + other modifiers)

Although i would be ok to use kama or shortswords I'd also like to get stunning fist. Would this work with the kama's or shortswords? Or do i need to take Stunning blow, wich would gimp as it is a STR based feat... gues that question is answerd.

Is it playable to switch to stun wraps to stun a target, to switch back to slashing for dps?
A druid would be pretty good with this as wolf-form makes the dmg slashing, but still is a unarmed attack. Maybe a Dronk would be better synergy.


Some insight would be much appreciated.
Thnx.

hi, I think the approach of Clonks is to max wisdom and use stunning blow/stunning fist. You cannot use stunning fist with ki weapons. There are only a couple of wraps that will add dex-to-damage (the level 4 scorching wraps in 3BC and the higher heroic Ivy wraps). That is a very limited selection, and neither boost your stun DC.
Once a mob is stunned, it will die quickly, so I recommend focusing on the stun as primary. If you plan on switching between slashing and stunners--I imagine that the mob would be dead by the time you switch anyway?
In epic levels, the epic monk feat that grants vorpal and slashing (I think) will give dex to damage to all your unarmed attacks (check with Spencerian...). That is a long wait and probably not worth it just to add dex. Plus, as many threads here attest, there are a lot of ways to boost str and not dex.

On the other hand, a Clonk with high dex has survivability via high reflex saves/evasion--that is something else to consider--your dps will be low but you will be reliably in one piece for a party healer. There are other ways though to boost saves than sacrificing DPS.

[rimble]

In epic levels, the epic monk feat that grants vorpal and slashing (I think) will give dex to damage to all your unarmed attacks

Nope.

[inspiredunease]

http://miltonbc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/its-a-trap-what-happens-when-advertisers-dont-meet-twitters-spending-quotas.jpg

Seriously, it's already been said, the major synergy with a clonk is between stunning fist and a wis build (and being able to run in grand master water stance to re-up your DCs). As you said you could swap back and forth between other weapons and wraps, it's just not worth it, you want to be stunning everything... all the time, and it only has a 6 second cooldown. You also probably want to grab level 3 monk to grab fists of light... there's a particular synergy between FoL and magic backlash at the moment which mean that the healing procs on it provide a knockdown... even moar helpless damage!

[TeacherSyn]

It's redundant and unnecessary to take Weapon Finesse as a Ninja Spy with the first 2 core abilities trained if you use shortswords, kamas, shuriken or any other weapon (not handwraps) that is piercing and slashing yet keeps you centered.

Update 20 completely excludes any handwraps or gear that gives piercing/slashing damage but is not typed as weapon damage (handwraps such as the Ivy Wraps aren't weapons and neither are items such as Brawling Gloves). This is working-as-intended now. Likewise, the epic feat Vorpal Strikes does not qualify.

Weapon Finesse is generally avoided for unarmed Monks now as adding STR and DEX for damage and to-hit deliver better results and saves a feat slot.

[Saekee]

Nope.

...sigh...thx for clarification and thx Spencerian