PDA

View Full Version : Basic playstyle for a sorcerer?



HardRobble
02-22-2014, 07:53 PM
Ok, a thread that is not about builds for advanced players or even basic players. This thread is asking for the type of advice you'd find in the book "Playing DDO Sorcerers for Dummies".

I've started a 7th level sorcerer with lots of help from another thread I created recently.. This is my first sorcerer and as such I have no experience playing one (or even a main caster type).

I'm looking for advice on what self buffs I should always be running, how i should go about attacking groups indoors/outdoors, dealing with traps when solo, I've heard mentioned jumping and casting.. not sure about that since casting has a small delay and i'm back on the ground by the time it launches. Avoiding becoming an aggro magnet.. using metamagics..

Anyway, any hints/tips or suggestions for the newbie sorcerer would be great.

Thalone
02-22-2014, 09:39 PM
See my signature for methods of getting past traps.

People advocate jump-casting because casting while walking slows your movement speed down considerably, whereas if you're in the air, your forward motion is not slowed as much. As a caster, your mobility is a powerful tool to mitigate incoming damage. Also, sorcs have very fast casting animations. You can avoid taking damage from casters or archers by running behind obstacles like pillars or doorways and peeking out when your spells are off cooldown.

Your spell selection will vary depending on your chosen element, but at low levels, fire is a no-brainer. The main way I dealt with heroic trash over sorc lives was to Web, and then stick an AoE of my chosen element on top of it (Wall of Fire/Ice Storm/Acid Rain; and the severely underused Cloudkill--does CON damage as well as acid). You can help your webs stick by increasing your Conjuration DCs and debuffing enemies (Solid Fog = -5 Reflex, dex debuffing like Waves of Exhaustion if you can afford the scrolls or spell slots). Note however that some effects will remove your webs (e.g., fireballs, winds). Note that once you get your Fireball SLA, it might be cheaper or quicker to forget about the integrity of your webs and blow things to smithereens.

Your SLAs should have metas on full-time, because they are free for SLAs. Max/Empower are taken early on most builds for this reason. I have not found it necessary to use Max/Empower on other spells for heroic content, although they do help boss fights go faster.

As for spells you should carry, there are a couple of threads you should review: 1 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/418766), 2 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/390929). I would strongly suggest either Shield or Nightshield for Magic Missile immunity and Protection from Evil or Magic Circle against evil for Command immunity. Resist Energy is a must (I shockingly find epic-level sorcs who can't do their own energy resists). You should also try to fit Disintegrate in for the mobs which have uncommon immunities (e.g., Wizard King); in a similar vein you should carry spells which oppose your savant trees, for monsters which are immune to your main elements. If you have plat reserves, many buffs can be scrolled (GH, Protection from Elements, Fire Shield, Teleport, etc), rather than cast from your SP pool. This also saves spell slots.

HardRobble
02-22-2014, 09:53 PM
can max/empower be set for specific spells or is it an on/off all or nothing thing? can both be used at the same time? (i have both of them)

edit:

nvm, i found out YES to both questions

Lonnbeimnech
02-22-2014, 11:29 PM
Ok, a thread that is not about builds for advanced players or even basic players. This thread is asking for the type of advice you'd find in the book "Playing DDO Sorcerers for Dummies".

I've started a 7th level sorcerer with lots of help from another thread I created recently.. This is my first sorcerer and as such I have no experience playing one (or even a main caster type).

I'm looking for advice on what self buffs I should always be running, how i should go about attacking groups indoors/outdoors, dealing with traps when solo, I've heard mentioned jumping and casting.. not sure about that since casting has a small delay and i'm back on the ground by the time it launches. Avoiding becoming an aggro magnet.. using metamagics..

Anyway, any hints/tips or suggestions for the newbie sorcerer would be great.

If you cast a spell while walking/running your movement is slowed while going through the casting animation. If you jump cast then you move at normal rate until you land. Jump is one of the most important spells for a sorc for this reason.

Once upon a time maximize and empower multiplied the amount of damage your spells did, now they add spell power. So lets say you are level 28, running around with 450 fire spell power, and fireball will cost 15 sp. Turning on maximize and empower will add 150+75 spell power for a total of 675 spell power, or a 50% increase, and the cost of fireball will go up to 55 or a 366% increase in spell point cost.

A 50% increase in damage for a 366% increase in sp consumption... Really not worth it then you could have just cast 3 more fireballs. and realistically you would have more than 450 spell power by level 28, so those feats are even less of a % increase in damage.

At lower levels they add much more, comparatively, but you still blow through sp faster then you should, and it's usually overkill to throw a maximized empowered fireball at level 7.

imo, these feats are outdated.

Get quicken, get heighten.

HardRobble
02-23-2014, 03:32 AM
imo, these feats are outdated.

Get quicken, get heighten.

I already have maximize and empower so changing them would have to wait until i want to use my lesser heart of wood (much later) and for my current level (8) they seem pretty good at least for burning hands SLA


What exactly does heigten and quicken do? according to the wiki heighton "This Feat makes spells harder for monsters to resist by raising the effective level of the spell to the highest spell level your character can cast, but causes the spell to consume 5 more spell points per level raised. " I don't quite understand what that means in plain english.

Will quicken shorten the cool down or just make casting time shorter?

Thalone
02-23-2014, 12:49 PM
Quicken makes your spells uninterruptible due to damage (you can still be interrupted if you get CCed or if you do breaking animations like climbing or tumbling) and only applies to spells you cast from your SP pool (i.e., not scrolls). It also makes spells cast faster when toggled on.

Heighten increases the DC of your low-level spells by raising their spell level to the highest spell level you can currently cast. The wiki article (http://ddowiki.com/page/DC) has quite a good explanation. Spell level is one of the components of your offensive DCs. So if you're casting Web (level 2) but you can cast level 7 arcane spells, if you toggle Heighten on for Web, you will cast it at level 7 for +5 DC.

Cardtrick
02-24-2014, 01:11 PM
Once upon a time maximize and empower multiplied the amount of damage your spells did, now they add spell power. So lets say you are level 28, running around with 450 fire spell power, and fireball will cost 15 sp. Turning on maximize and empower will add 150+75 spell power for a total of 675 spell power, or a 50% increase, and the cost of fireball will go up to 55 or a 366% increase in spell point cost.

A 50% increase in damage for a 366% increase in sp consumption... Really not worth it then you could have just cast 3 more fireballs. and realistically you would have more than 450 spell power by level 28, so those feats are even less of a % increase in damage.

At lower levels they add much more, comparatively, but you still blow through sp faster then you should, and it's usually overkill to throw a maximized empowered fireball at level 7.

This is all true.


imo, these feats are outdated.

But I could not disagree more strongly with this. They're not outdated, they're just more situational.

Maximize should still be the very first feat every wizard or sorcerer takes. But at first, it should be turned off for everything except SLAs. It's free on SLAs. In the first couple of levels, it's not a 50% increase in damage -- it's more like a 100 - 150% increase. And it costs nothing!

The fact that SLAs can be fully metaed for free (maximize, empower, heighten, quicken -- all at the same time) is what keeps them useful all the way up to level 20 and even beyond. Otherwise, the SLAs would have such low damage that by the mid levels they're not worth even their low cost.

Other than the SLAs, I basically never use Empower. Maximize I use on some things -- primarily the DOTs (Niac's and Eladar's) for big bosses, and sometimes on Delayed Blast Fireball to clear a room quick -- even in the upper teens, a Maximized DBF followed by fully-metaed Fireball and Scorch SLAs will kill most groups. Sometimes on Scorching Ray at its super long range for things I don't want getting close - primarily beholders.

Quicken of course is essential for slow self-healing spellings (Reconstruct on Warforged arcanes, NEB on palemasters, Heal on Divines). It's also useful on certain other slow-casting spells that would be hard to target or too dangerous to use without it (Otto's Dancing Sphere, etc.).

Heighten is tough. It's great on SLAs, of course -- many fewer enemies saving on Reflex checks. Other than that, it's most useful on CC or insta-kill spells that don't have better high-level versions. Especially web and Otto's. It rarely, if ever, makes sense to use it on direct damage spells -- there's typically a higher level spell that would accomplish the same thing but better.

Also, Enlarge is worth considering. It's a bit tough to fit feat-wise, sometimes, but it can be pretty awesome. It lets you toss a DBF from way out of range. Beyond the obvious benefit of avoiding damage by being out of range, that often means that you can hit groups while they're still clustered close together, whereas if you moved close enough to cast a DBF normally, a couple of stragglers would have separated and been outside the blast radius. Also super nice for casting DOTs on bosses from out of their range.

Sokól
02-24-2014, 01:57 PM
If you cast a spell while walking/running your movement is slowed while going through the casting animation. If you jump cast then you move at normal rate until you land. Jump is one of the most important spells for a sorc for this reason.

Once upon a time maximize and empower multiplied the amount of damage your spells did, now they add spell power. So lets say you are level 28, running around with 450 fire spell power, and fireball will cost 15 sp. Turning on maximize and empower will add 150+75 spell power for a total of 675 spell power, or a 50% increase, and the cost of fireball will go up to 55 or a 366% increase in spell point cost.

A 50% increase in damage for a 366% increase in sp consumption... Really not worth it then you could have just cast 3 more fireballs. and realistically you would have more than 450 spell power by level 28, so those feats are even less of a % increase in damage.

At lower levels they add much more, comparatively, but you still blow through sp faster then you should, and it's usually overkill to throw a maximized empowered fireball at level 7.

imo, these feats are outdated.

Get quicken, get heighten.

so true even empower heal has lost its worth...

Wizza
02-25-2014, 10:21 AM
Can we please stop suggesting sorcerers to not get Maximize, Empower and Heighten? Unless you are going Shiradi route, get all of the above feats. The extra damage is worth the extra sp.

And good luck landing anything without Heighten. Heighten is not worth it on direct damage spells? Are we talking about Epic Normal (or even Heroic normal) here? Heighten is one of the best feat in the game and it is essential to any Arcane.

Suggesting to consider Enlarge and not Empower/Heighten gave me a good laugh thou.

Ancient
02-25-2014, 10:34 AM
At lower levels they add much more, comparatively, but you still blow through sp faster then you should, and it's usually overkill to throw a maximized empowered fireball at level 7.
At low levels, why do you need to cast anything? Max/Emp burning hands and acid splash SLAs clear everything.

Cardtrick
02-25-2014, 10:52 AM
Suggesting to consider Enlarge and not Empower/Heighten gave me a good laugh thou.

I think I'm the only one in this thread who mentioned Enlarge, and I definitely didn't mean to take it instead of Maximize/Empower/Heighten/Quicken. I mostly use the metamagics for SLAs, but I still think they're absolutely essential -- as I discussed at pretty great length in my post. If fact, I talked about every one of those metamagics and what I use them for before mentioning Enlarge.

But the 4 main metas have been essential for sorcerers forever. And yet, we all used to build characters just fine before the enhancements pass, when Toughness was also considered mandatory due to the enhancements it opened up. In some senses, we now have a free feat, since we don't have to take Toughness. For a lot of builds, I think that free feat is better used for Enlarge than for anything else. (Especially for TR lives in the heroic levels . . . I'd rather have Enlarge than (Greater) Spell Focus if I'm not going to be using the spell focus feat as a prerequisite for epic feats or destiny abilities.)

If you've never tried Enlarge, try it sometime. I used to think it was pure gimpness, like Eschew -- but it's actually incredibly useful.

Ancient
02-25-2014, 11:17 AM
If you've never tried Enlarge, try it sometime. I used to think it was pure gimpness, like Eschew -- but it's actually incredibly useful.

My Wizard (I know this is a sorc thread) has enlarge but not heighten. The force SLAs do not have a save, but they do have a very short range. The sorc SLAs have a much better range, so I can see it being more of a tough choice.

Cardtrick
02-25-2014, 11:43 AM
My Wizard (I know this is a sorc thread) has enlarge but not heighten. The force SLAs do not have a save, but they do have a very short range. The sorc SLAs have a much better range, so I can see it being more of a tough choice.

It is worth mentioning for anyone reading this that Ancient's wizard build (the one from his signature) is a Shiradi force-based archmage. Most of the spells he casts have no DC at all, not even the SLAs, and they are cast largely in order to trigger the Shiradi effects. Heighten would do virtually nothing for his character.

For nearly any other kind of arcane build, Heighten is useful. And I wouldn't normally recommend Enlarge over Heighten. But if you're carrying Extend or Toughness (unless you're also taking Epic Toughness), I would suggest considering Enlarge instead.

Ancient
02-25-2014, 11:53 AM
It is worth mentioning for anyone reading this that Ancient's wizard build (the one from his signature) is a Shiradi force-based archmage. Most of the spells he casts have no DC at all, not even the SLAs, and they are cast largely in order to trigger the Shiradi effects. Heighten would do virtually nothing for his character.
A very valid point, although I cast damage spells/SLAs to do damage and can kill/survive even outside shiradi. The choice to chase DCs or not is a huge one and there is a lot of power in DCs... but it is not a little commitment. Once you go down that path, the optimal approach is to go all in... which would include heighten (and possibly other feats). The choice to not chase DCs does free up feats, but it also reduces choices of what spells you can use effectively.


For nearly any other kind of arcane build, Heighten is useful. And I wouldn't normally recommend Enlarge over Heighten. But if you're carrying Extend or Toughness (unless you're also taking Epic Toughness), I would suggest considering Enlarge instead.
For any DC based build. There are other non-dc builds other than just shiradi (EK Knight, Wraith Melee, Tulkaw).

Pulling this back to the basic playstyle for a sorc. Decide if you want to pursue DC or not. If you do, then it is a significant commitment and it should be a significant part of your build. If you don't, then go all in on something else and put any flexibility you have with feats/AP into survival because you won't have the same level of control that a high end DC caster does. I have a strong preference towards building for survival, many others have a strong preference for building for control/DCs.

Loromir
02-25-2014, 12:02 PM
To keep this simple...a Sorcerer is nothing more than a bulldozer. Choose a Main element (Fire is good except for lvls 15-20) and a secindary element. Then bulldoze your way to victory. There really is not much finesse when it comes to sorcerer (Except for Shiradi Sorcs at epic lvls).

Good to have buffs: Blur, Displacement, Greater Heroism, Night Shield, Jump, elemental resistance and I like magic Circle against evil.

It has become pretty popular to spash 2 lvls of Paladin on a Sorc for some really big saves.

Sorc are not typically big time instakillers..but rather big time nukers. You should enjoy being a sorcerer.

Cardtrick
02-25-2014, 02:02 PM
A very valid point, although I cast damage spells/SLAs to do damage and can kill/survive even outside shiradi. The choice to chase DCs or not is a huge one and there is a lot of power in DCs... but it is not a little commitment. Once you go down that path, the optimal approach is to go all in... which would include heighten (and possibly other feats). The choice to not chase DCs does free up feats, but it also reduces choices of what spells you can use effectively.

True. And I know you completely understand this, but I do just want to emphasize for others reading this that nearly all "casting" sorcerers will cast at least some DC-based spells, even those sorcerers who are focused fully on direct damage. This is because -- unlike an evocation-focused wizard, who mostly casts saveless force-based missile spells and SLAs -- the sorcerer savant SLAs all include some spells with saves for half damage, but which can have metas applied for free. That's why Heighten is likely to be a significant DPS increase on any sorcerer who makes use of their SLAs (which, again, is virtually any sorcerer, excluding the specialty melee/EK/Tukaw style builds).


Good to have buffs: Blur, Displacement, Greater Heroism, Night Shield, Jump, elemental resistance and I like magic Circle against evil.

If you ever group at all, you'll also want Haste, and ideally also Rage. Most groups expect the arcane to cast these on everyone. At least one of Protection From Elements and Mass Protection From Elements is extremely useful. (I prefer the mass version for versatility, since it doesn't cost much more andcan be used either solo or in a group.)

Greater Heroism is castable from a scroll with a respectable duration and exactly the same benefits it would otherwise have. (Same for, e.g., Teleport.) Due to the limited spell selections sorcerers get, many of us choose not to take spells like GH.


It has become pretty popular to spash 2 lvls of Paladin on a Sorc for some really big saves.

This is especially useful for epic levels, but a new player might prefer to go straight sorcerer for at least their first character/life. If doing the splash, though, it's typically best to push the paladin levels back somewhere fairly late in the leveling process. It's definitely worth going straight sorcerer for at least 14 levels to get access to the level 7 spells; that's enough destructive power to finish leveling comfortably.

Be aware that if you're considering something like this, you must make your character Lawful Good at the time of creation; otherwise, you'll need to perform an alignment change, which costs Turbine Points in the DDO Store.

Another common splash is either 2 or 4 levels of Favored Soul, for increased fire/force critical chance and the ability to regain temporary spell points every time you score a fire / force critical (this is an enhancement called Just Rewards).

I personally think the easiest way to level is as a fire savant with force as a secondary school and a couple of useful acid spells (Acid Rain and Black Dragon Bolt, in particular). 16 sorc levels, then 2 favored soul levels. Then the last 2 levels can be in any of the 3 relevant classes -- sorc, favored soul, or paladin -- depending on preference.

Ancient
02-25-2014, 03:15 PM
I personally think the easiest way to level is as a fire savant with force as a secondary school and a couple of useful acid spells (Acid Rain and Black Dragon Bolt, in particular). 16 sorc levels, then 2 favored soul levels. Then the last 2 levels can be in any of the 3 relevant classes -- sorc, favored soul, or paladin -- depending on preference.
This comes down to a style difference if you wish to be SLA centric or Spell centric. The 16 levels is a spell centric threshold. For my Sorc, I was able to easily get through heroics with the SLAs, scorching ray and chain missile. Reconstruct is a huge increase in survivability, so level 12 is huge milestone. I was still spending AP on sorc stuff at level 12, so it was too early to pull FVS in. I went 2 paladin levels to help with survival, followed by the FVS levels, then I finished up with Sorc. The last 4 levels could be flipped however.

I will admit one potential flaw in my thinking however... I focused on survival because I was pulling so much agro I wanted to survive. You do bring up the possibility that if I had one shot the entire room, I wouldn't need to worry about retaliation... But if you go that route, you better be sure you really do clear the room in that one shot... or it might sting a little bit :)

As far as elements, early on I went Fire/Earth savant but for spells I took scorching ray, force and utility spells. The only thing I took in earth was enough to get the acid splash SLA to level 3. That gave me two max/empowered area effect SLAs which was enough to clear almost anything with minimal mana usage. Once I reached the point where the points in Earth would have let me get the fireball SLA, I reset out of earth and went pure fire/force.

Since max/empower is free on SLAs, I think they are easy choices for the first two feats. I went quicken next and then since I'm not DC focused, I moved over to mental toughness for the crits. A DC focused caster might start with heighten/evocation focus at that point. I would not suggest a new player skip max/empower.

Once again, all of this post is how I leveled my sorc.

Finn42
04-02-2014, 12:32 PM
Hi,
I don't have access to the WF ablity, so the
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-primer-more-powerfuller-than-ever
and
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-%28WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi%29?p=5095752#post5095752

builds look great to me, and I understand how they work... but I see a major section of it is the WF aspect.
1) do these type of builds work as a lowly NEW non TR/LR Human that I am?
2) what do I take instead of these WF stuff?
3) do I need both Jump and tumble?
--
Basically, I am looking for the glass cannon build. I ONLY play in a group with friends, and we will be doing end game content eventually. We got our tank and healers, so as long as I don't over agro things I should be 100% fine as the glass cannon.

If anyone could please help me out with Feats/enhancements for a 28 point starting Human sorc, that would much appreciated.
Thanks, Finn.

Lonnbeimnech
04-02-2014, 01:02 PM
Hi,
I don't have access to the WF ablity, so the
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-primer-more-powerfuller-than-ever
and
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-%28WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi%29?p=5095752#post5095752

builds look great to me, and I understand how they work... but I see a major section of it is the WF aspect.
1) do these type of builds work as a lowly NEW non TR/LR Human that I am?
2) what do I take instead of these WF stuff?
3) do I need both Jump and tumble?
--
Basically, I am looking for the glass cannon build. I ONLY play in a group with friends, and we will be doing end game content eventually. We got our tank and healers, so as long as I don't over agro things I should be 100% fine as the glass cannon.

If anyone could please help me out with Feats/enhancements for a 28 point starting Human sorc, that would much appreciated.
Thanks, Finn.
A human should invest in umd, it allows you to heal with wands and scrolls. In epic content, you should also twist cocoon.

The play style of a human is different. A wf can stand there and take it on the chin and recon through it. A human has to kite. Other than that it's pretty much the same.

Put 1 point in tumble, and take the jump spell. Don't put points in jump, don't take the tumble spell.

Sokól
04-02-2014, 02:08 PM
Hi,
I don't have access to the WF ablity, so the
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423364-U19-shiradi-WF-sorc-build-primer-more-powerfuller-than-ever
and
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-%28WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi%29?p=5095752#post5095752

builds look great to me, and I understand how they work... but I see a major section of it is the WF aspect.
1) do these type of builds work as a lowly NEW non TR/LR Human that I am?
2) what do I take instead of these WF stuff?
3) do I need both Jump and tumble?
--
Basically, I am looking for the glass cannon build. I ONLY play in a group with friends, and we will be doing end game content eventually. We got our tank and healers, so as long as I don't over agro things I should be 100% fine as the glass cannon.

If anyone could please help me out with Feats/enhancements for a 28 point starting Human sorc, that would much appreciated.
Thanks, Finn.

max diplomacy as a skill great for aggro management and when your friend goes afk :D

Cardtrick
04-02-2014, 02:53 PM
If anyone could please help me out with Feats/enhancements for a 28 point starting Human sorc, that would much appreciated.
Thanks, Finn.

Human is totally viable too, you just have less self healing and you're more vulnerable to certain effects. If you're in a good group that works together, which it sounds like you will be, then there's no problem at all -- in fact, you may even be better off as a human, since you don't have to deal with the -2 CHA penalty that warforged get. You also get an extra feat.

Incidentally, do you have access to drow? (It's a favor reward for a relatively low amount of favor, so if you've played at all, you might have it unlocked for free.) If you do, I would tend to prefer drow over a 28 point human, due to the higher charisma and the quasi-32 point status that drow have.

Whatever race you go, the same advice applies -- max charisma, enough into intelligence that with tomes (if you have any) and racial bonus (if you're human) you're getting at least 3 skillpoints per level, then the rest into constitution. Keep Spellcraft, Concentration, and UMD as high as you can (note that UMD is a cross-class skill, so you won't be able to maximize it).

The builds you linked both take 2 favored soul levels. Have you unlocked favored soul?

If you have, that's perfect -- a fleshy benefits even more from the splash than a warforged does, because it opens up the Empower Healing feat, which is extremely useful for the Rejuvenation Cocoon epic destiny ability. And fleshies benefit just as much from the awesome Just Rewards enhancement in AoV as warforged do.

If you haven't unlocked favored soul, things get trickier -- splashing 2 paladin is probably the best option, for the saves, especially since you won't have the same immunities a warforged does. An 18/2 sorcerer/paladin is a really solid build. You could then additionally splash 1 cleric level to get access to empower healing, but there's not much other benefit in the splash and it would mean losing access to 9th level spells. Occasionally, you'll see people do 18 sorcerer/1 cleric/1 rogue (take rogue as the first level and cleric sometime before level 18 -- the point of the rogue level is just to open up UMD as a class skill so you can get max ranks, and the cleric level is just to unlock empower healing). Or 18 sorcerer/1 cleric/1 wizard (UMD + a free wizard feat). Or you can always go pure -- the capstone is useful.

Bear in mind that if you're even considering splashing paladin, you need to make your character alignment Lawful Good.

TheDr0wRanger
08-20-2014, 10:05 AM
Human sorc is very viable, but you have to learn a different sort of balance.

Toasters get some slick immunities and self healing that will let them duke it out in close range.
But due to their loss of:
1 feat,
2 cha(3 if you count human enhancements)
Human enhancements for spellpower, action boosts etc(I prefer them to Drow enhancements on a sorc)
and the necessary focus on warforged abilities in order to leverage the aforementioned self healing

I've found myself able to pace 2nd -4th life Warforged sorcs in dps on my 1st life Human. The gear for fleshies is easier to spec than the warforged because named caster docents are not similar to named caster robes in many cases.

Your UMD WILL be higher(because you WILL invest in UMD right?)


Finally the gap in survivability, while significant, is nothing like it used to be. With Cocoon at endgame, PRR and immunities from Apotheosis Form and the Eldritch Knights acceptable selection of butt-saving (Improved Shield for PRR,available Armor Proficiency, Scroll Mastery,Arcane Barrier,Elemental Resistance) flesh sorcerers can handle themselves without difficulty nowadays. Again you won't be able to off-tank like the Warforged, but if you, like me, don't have any interest in it anyway, its no big thing.


Definitely need to learn to kite though, Jump spell and a jump item(augment?) will get you in the air, featherfall constantly is good for completely negating movement penalties. If you pick an Evo school with DCs do not skimp on Cha and DC bonuses, they are your life. Cyclonic Blast, Greater Shout and later Soundburst or Daunting Roar are going to be the evo CC spells to count on. If you secondary in Enchant you can dance ball for tolerable effect at late-game.

Learn when NOT to jump in, when to wipe out everything(always) and when to kite enemies back to the tougher characters. Dragon Wings are great for getting out of dodge and their trip effect makes them useful for CC. Energy Burst is going to be a go-to at endgame but Draconic Breath can save your butt during cooldowns or ramp your damage when you cut loose. Once you get comfortable with categorizing threats, deciding who you can take and who you'll need help for, you will be golden. I generally solo the FoT ice dragon because no one even gets into the fight before I've killed him.

Big deal here, make sure you get your CC resistance abilities down. Pro Evil, Balance(for trip recovery), beg Freedom of Movement anytime you can get it.
Layer your defenses, 50 PRR(I have 54 standing I think) is a percentage off, 10 DR is still more, put on Blur and Displacement at all times, get a Ghostly item, get all the Positive Spellpower and Heal Amp you can afford(2/3 human for my build). I scroll to others for 200, but I scroll myself for ~350.
Apotheoisis form is worth more than its credited, the immunity list for Elementals is almost as good as undead, not getting stunned or poisoned alone make the form worth it.
Cocoon is a life save but don't expect it to let you tank, its formulated almost exactly to prevent that.

You aren't going to stand and deliver, you are going to be the A-10 Warthog, fly by dropping doom and then zoom back for another pass. If you are going to be a savant some recommend a second element. Its one of the options, I prefer to just become CC support in areas where my element won't shine, its good for learning to diversify your playstyle and it means more focus on my main element.

I recommend strongly considering Endless Faith as a goal for your ED Twists, I'm at almost 4500 spellpoints and I basically never have to concern myself with the rate at which I cast spells, I can cut loose early and often. Plus raising the bar on Echoes means you can E-Burst in echoes, which means I do more damage when I'm limping than many toons do at peak. Awaken Weakness is worth the entire tree, take it, use it, love it.

Any of that help? I played a flesh back when that was still a valid reason to get booted from a PuG, and I spent a lot of time getting flogged for it. Now hes a fun, productive character that even occasionally impresses people. And first life to boot.

bsquishwizzy
08-22-2014, 12:33 PM
Ok, a thread that is not about builds for advanced players or even basic players. This thread is asking for the type of advice you'd find in the book "Playing DDO Sorcerers for Dummies".

I've started a 7th level sorcerer with lots of help from another thread I created recently.. This is my first sorcerer and as such I have no experience playing one (or even a main caster type).

I'm looking for advice on what self buffs I should always be running, how i should go about attacking groups indoors/outdoors, dealing with traps when solo, I've heard mentioned jumping and casting.. not sure about that since casting has a small delay and i'm back on the ground by the time it launches. Avoiding becoming an aggro magnet.. using metamagics..

Anyway, any hints/tips or suggestions for the newbie sorcerer would be great.

Right now I am leveling my first Sorc (with 2 wizzy past lives, my mea culpa). I’ve always done Wizards. Here’s my advice, for what it is worth:

1) Pick an element, think about a secondary element you’ll want as a backup. Stick to them.

2) Look for those spells in an element that have dual purposes. I have an Air Savant, and I picked that specifically for Electric Loop, Chain Lightning, and Sonic Blast. All three are AoE spells, and two of them have the added ability to stun opponents (crowd control). I spam these like nobody’s business, and it is HIGHLY effective in lower levels. This might change in upper levels with better mob reflex saves.

3) Think seriously about taking Stoneskin, Haste, Protection from Elements / Resist Elements if you can. If you can’t, you can use scrolls for these. The durations are much shorter. I would try to fit in at least Blur (for protection), and Web (for crowd control), and Dimension Door (has a LOT of uses) . Remember, webs are burned away by fireballs and some sonic spells.

4) First time as a Sorc, don’t go instakill / enchantment route. This is better done on a wizard, requires you to balance damage output and spell penetration, and manage DCs. Try that on a second life when you get a little more experience under your belt.

5) Think about taking Disintegrate and/or Magic Missile. MM can be spammed in Sharardi, used as a backup for elemental-resistant mobs, and Disintegrate is your go-to spell for constructs and most undead as it is one of the most reliable on those mobs.

6) Look for Lore items in your chosen elemental damage types, along with the damage booster attributes (magnetism, glaciation, combustion, corrosion) and also look for Kinetic Lore and Impulse items for Disintegrate / Magic Missile.

7) I took two Toughness feats in my first levels for the HP. My thoughts are a minimum of Heighten, Maximize / Empower, Evocation Focus, and maybe Conjuration Focus as a minimum of feats. Extend if you can fit it in (I hate having to re-cast buffs).

8) Get into Cannith Crafting. You can craft Evocation Focus, Conjuration focus items to at least the second tier.

9) Your two most important stats are CHR and CON. INT for skills (Spell power and UMD at the very least). Don’t bother with Diplo, which is a fallback for a Wizard. When you start spamming spells, you will be doing so much damage that Diplo will be wasted effort. Also think about taking Jump (my personal preference, I admit).

10) Slot the best Wizardry / Power items you can, and keep your CHR the maximum you can get.

11) DO NOT SELECT TELEPORT AS A SPELL!!! You can get this scroll from a guild vendor in House K. This will get you into the Portable Hole, where you can buy buff scrolls to your heart’s content. Get into a guild. This is pretty easy these days (may depend on your server).

12) Self-healing is not as big of an issue as it is for other classes. UMD is based off CHR, and with putting points into UMD, you should be able to use a combination of wands and pots to keep yourself up. Craft a Persuasion item if you can in Cannith Crafting. Between CHR, UMD, and scroll-casting Greater Heroism, you should be just fine for self-healing, and even using some rez scrolls.

As for jumping and casting, that’s more of an optimized move for guys who are really into the Mario stuff. I use jump and cast with Sonic Blast and Electric Loop. I stun a group of mobs, jump over them aggo another group of mobs, get them close enough to me, and then repeat Sonic Blast and Electric Loop over and over again. Between the stunning effect, and the criticals in my main element, it is unbelievably fast and effective for clearing trash. There is a quest in the Catacombs chain that involves clearing away a lot of skellies, zombies, and other undead trash. Usually, this is a straight-out slugfest from start to finish and takes a fairly long time to complete. With my sorc and a cleric (duo-ed the quest) we zerged the thing in what seemed like record time. Even with the undead being immune to the stun effect, the raw AoE damage that Sonic Blast and Electric Loop provided was more than enough to just steamroll through mobs.

The spells that I can simply not debate over selecting are as follows: Invisibility, Teleport, Heroism / Greater Heroism, Mass stat buff spells (Mass Bears Endurance, for example), Stoneskin, Protection from / Resist Element(s)…in fact just about every buff spell out there. It can be done from a scroll. In fact, the 2.5 minutes that you get from Invisibility will get you through 90% of those situations where being Invisible is kinda important. When you start running low, you can re-cast it from a scroll without being detected (if you play smart and don’t do it standing right next to a mob). The only buff spells that I think outright suck from being cast from a scroll are Blur and Haste, mainly because their durartion is terrible. Also Summon Monster VIII, and IX are not readily available in scroll form, but every OTHER summon is. So you can scroll-cast these as well.

And that’s the thumbnail sketch of my advice.

bsquishwizzy
08-22-2014, 12:59 PM
Also one note on Drow as a race: they get spell resistance, which can be increased in the racial tree. This covers quite a few holes when it comes to saves and immunities.

Wh070aa
08-22-2014, 02:37 PM
Okay. I see lots of bad advice here.
Quicken is for people that don't max out concentration. Sorcerers have faster spell casting anyway, so its waste of spell points, on everything but few bosses. That's my opinion, I played sorc for 2 life's, and all of my sorc friends agree. It the sorc SLA's speed didn't suck hard, this would not be argued about.

Maximize is really important. You basically always leave it on, and get gear/enchants to reduce the cost.Get Arcane Shard(Dreams of Insanity end chest or auction house), if you can, for clearing weaker mobs (have element clrit+spellpower as other set for stuff you cant 1 shot with maximized fireball).

Other feats depend on what you want to do. Evo focus +greater evo is what I do. (unless earth servant, then Conjuration).
Mental taughtness line for extra crits is decent(not all that good). Or you can take spell pen and necro or enchantment (big investments tho).

For race I recommend human, because extra feat, and skill points. Drow have HP problems (especially if under geared)

Get Sla's and spam them. People usually get 2 servants (I personally recommend air + Fire or ice). Fire is good for them fireballs, but it needs DC, and it caps out quickly (also lots of resistant mobs). Ice has polar ray (no DC), but niclac's is conjuration, so SLA's are less effective. Great up to level 7.

Air is awesome for the wings (you can fly taught the traps). Acid is not bad, but it builds different than the rest of the servants.

Don't be afraid to scroll/wand stuff ( you will need to farm money tho) Hight Cha means high UMD. Rise dead, and heal are a must at level 12+ You can save spell slots by umd-ing Greiter heroism(Planar grid, drops in The Xorian Cipher, will save you small fortune in plat. Get like 2 of them), true seeing, invisibility, stone skin, teleport. Healing wands are cheaper than potions.


What else? Do some research on DC and Spell pen. Buy Canith crafted evocation(conjuration,necromancy depending on build) +2 shard, put it in a ring. You can just ask people to craft it for you for essences.

Next play style. There are ways.
1)Get a tower shield, 2 overlaying AOE(area effect) Dot's(damage ower time)/debuffs/CC(crowd control), (cast, then switch to shield) sit in middle and heal yourself/be mana sponge for cleric. IMO not while, unless warforged, and bad idea even then. Good if the party tank can keep the aggro and be person blocking in the AOE (Never happens for me, you need to tell people to do that about 1 time a minute).

2) Get Jump, get haste, (air servant wings help a ton). Put down your AOE Dot, and run around it in circles (Or 2 firewalls and run in between them). Add moar DoT's as needed. Kite.

-------------

Spell selection.
Depends on your servant, but you want

AOE DoT's. At least 2 of them. Acid rain/firewall, Acid rain /Ice storm, Firewall/Clowdkill(con damage, not viable early game). Ice storm puts out firewall.
2 Single target DoT's (niclacs and eldars).(+acid arrows/bolts)

Lasor beams - Servant dependent, But you want disintegrate + (lightning(bolt, chain, Or Polar ray/niclacs/Ice spear or (fire beam thingy idk I never take it) For acid you get DoT's instead).

Balls- Firebal(delayed at later levels), lightning ball, Ice ball

Buffs- Haste, jump, Nightshield, blurr, displacment. You can wand/scroll Heroism,stone skin and true seeing. Prot from evil.
Other- Dimension door.
Instakills-(advanced, Spell pen + necro needed)Wail, Finger of death, Enervation/energy drain.
Optional- Magic missiles for shiradi. All the missiles. Sonic stuns. Greater shout and the Sonic Blast.


SLA's - Put on all the metas, spam them as soon as you can. Depends on servant. (lightning loop is a nice stun, if you got the DC). Cool downs are horrid, and break the flow of casting.
-----------
Skills- Concentration(for heal scrolls ad spells),UMD(healing) Spellcraft,balance (no more than 10 points in it, reduces duration of trip), Tumble(meh),
Max out Cha, Con and rest in wherever (Int for more skill points, or str for more carrying capacity)
That's about all I can remember. Also the usual stuff, HP items, +Cha item, SP item, heavy fort+ , death block and so on.

I might have forgotten something, just post up if you have any questions.

Loromir
08-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Okay. I see lots of bad advice here.
Quicken is for people that don't max out concentration. Sorcerers have faster spell casting anyway, so its waste of spell points, on everything but few bosses. That's my opinion, I played sorc for 2 life's, and all of my sorc friends agree. It the sorc SLA's speed didn't suck hard, this would not be argued about.




Quicken is primarily for no fail Reconstruct on a Warforged/Bladeforged. It is difficult to get concentration high enough to prevent spell interruption in Epic Elite. You will be greatful for Quicken when you have 5 mobs beating on you at once and you can still get that reconstruct spell to fire off.

majorhavoc
01-14-2015, 11:27 AM
Okay. I see lots of bad advice here.
Quicken is for people that don't max out concentration. Sorcerers have faster spell casting anyway, so its waste of spell points, on everything but few bosses. That's my opinion, I played sorc for 2 life's, and all of my sorc friends agree. It the sorc SLA's speed didn't suck hard, this would not be argued about.

Maximize is really important. You basically always leave it on, and get gear/enchants to reduce the cost.Get Arcane Shard(Dreams of Insanity end chest or auction house), if you can, for clearing weaker mobs (have element clrit+spellpower as other set for stuff you cant 1 shot with maximized fireball).

Other feats depend on what you want to do. Evo focus +greater evo is what I do. (unless earth servant, then Conjuration).
Mental taughtness line for extra crits is decent(not all that good). Or you can take spell pen and necro or enchantment (big investments tho).

For race I recommend human, because extra feat, and skill points. Drow have HP problems (especially if under geared)

Get Sla's and spam them. People usually get 2 servants (I personally recommend air + Fire or ice). Fire is good for them fireballs, but it needs DC, and it caps out quickly (also lots of resistant mobs). Ice has polar ray (no DC), but niclac's is conjuration, so SLA's are less effective. Great up to level 7.

Air is awesome for the wings (you can fly taught the traps). Acid is not bad, but it builds different than the rest of the servants.

Don't be afraid to scroll/wand stuff ( you will need to farm money tho) Hight Cha means high UMD. Rise dead, and heal are a must at level 12+ You can save spell slots by umd-ing Greiter heroism(Planar grid, drops in The Xorian Cipher, will save you small fortune in plat. Get like 2 of them), true seeing, invisibility, stone skin, teleport. Healing wands are cheaper than potions.


What else? Do some research on DC and Spell pen. Buy Canith crafted evocation(conjuration,necromancy depending on build) +2 shard, put it in a ring. You can just ask people to craft it for you for essences.

Next play style. There are ways.
1)Get a tower shield, 2 overlaying AOE(area effect) Dot's(damage ower time)/debuffs/CC(crowd control), (cast, then switch to shield) sit in middle and heal yourself/be mana sponge for cleric. IMO not while, unless warforged, and bad idea even then. Good if the party tank can keep the aggro and be person blocking in the AOE (Never happens for me, you need to tell people to do that about 1 time a minute).

2) Get Jump, get haste, (air servant wings help a ton). Put down your AOE Dot, and run around it in circles (Or 2 firewalls and run in between them). Add moar DoT's as needed. Kite.

-------------

Spell selection.
Depends on your servant, but you want

AOE DoT's. At least 2 of them. Acid rain/firewall, Acid rain /Ice storm, Firewall/Clowdkill(con damage, not viable early game). Ice storm puts out firewall.
2 Single target DoT's (niclacs and eldars).(+acid arrows/bolts)

Lasor beams - Servant dependent, But you want disintegrate + (lightning(bolt, chain, Or Polar ray/niclacs/Ice spear or (fire beam thingy idk I never take it) For acid you get DoT's instead).

Balls- Firebal(delayed at later levels), lightning ball, Ice ball

Buffs- Haste, jump, Nightshield, blurr, displacment. You can wand/scroll Heroism,stone skin and true seeing. Prot from evil.
Other- Dimension door.
Instakills-(advanced, Spell pen + necro needed)Wail, Finger of death, Enervation/energy drain.
Optional- Magic missiles for shiradi. All the missiles. Sonic stuns. Greater shout and the Sonic Blast.


SLA's - Put on all the metas, spam them as soon as you can. Depends on servant. (lightning loop is a nice stun, if you got the DC). Cool downs are horrid, and break the flow of casting.
-----------
Skills- Concentration(for heal scrolls ad spells),UMD(healing) Spellcraft,balance (no more than 10 points in it, reduces duration of trip), Tumble(meh),
Max out Cha, Con and rest in wherever (Int for more skill points, or str for more carrying capacity)
That's about all I can remember. Also the usual stuff, HP items, +Cha item, SP item, heavy fort+ , death block and so on.

I might have forgotten something, just post up if you have any questions.


I totally agree Quicken is a useless wast of a feat, Having played a WF/BF for 24 Heroic lives & 13 epic lives on this tune, all of them as a Sorc, by 28th level concentration is 80-90 depending on gear set, I almost NEVER fail a contraction check even with 20 EE mobs on me, why wast a feat for 1 spell you will fail 1 out a hundred times.

Also Heighten IMHO is another wast of a feat, by end game most of the spells I use most do not gain much effectiveness from Heighten, I.E. (Meteor Storm, Ruin, Hellball, Energy Burst)

As stated by others, Extend spell is also useless now that it only apply to buffs.

I play with Empower & Maximize always on, as a Sorc it is all about maxing out Spell power, then max out crits.

I have played dozens of combinations, I prefer the following feat section, based on my play style, which is mass AOE damage, I very rarely sols.

1: Adamantine Body
3: Completionist
6: Empower Spell
9: Maximize Spell
12: Mental Toughness
15: Improved Mental Toughness
18: Toughness
21: Epic Mental Toughness
24: Epic Toughness
26: Epic Spell power: Fire
27: Ruin
28: Hellball

If I was going to change something I would dump Toughness & Epic Mental Toughness, for Spell Focus & Improved Spell Focus, but based on my plays style I make full use of the extra HPs. EE content mobs hit like a ton of bricks, even with over 1000 HPs, I constantly have to disengage from the fight to repair myself.

With the reasent updates, Adamantine Body is WELL Worth getting. I can regularly get 100+ AC, 100+ PRR, & 90+ MRR, for my play style this is a MASSIVE improvement in surviveability in EE content.