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HardRobble
02-19-2014, 09:59 PM
Just got veteran II so i can start characters at lvl 7. Now I want to try my hand at a sorcerer since I'll skip the most squishy stage. I've never played a sorcerer (or any other spell caster other than paladin)

I know I want to go fire/air. I don't know if I'll want to multiclass - will i lose meteor swarm if I do? I've read about several builds and just got confused and most of them were talking about after TR'ing/past lives and 36 point builds. This is for a first playthrough.


Any tips? What race and stats should I start with? I will have 32 points. What feats should I go for? I don't need it detailed out to lvl 20 yet but but to level 10 would be fine for now. What will be my main spells etc..


Of course I want DPS and survivability when I start taking aggro.

thanks for any suggestions!

cru121
02-19-2014, 11:06 PM
new sorc, air fire

human sorc 7
maximize, empower
sf:evo
gsf:evo

spells:
sonic blast, jump; two of exp.retreat, shield, detect secret doors
scorching ray, blur, knock
fireball

enhancements @7
air savant for Electric Loop SLA (maxemp for free), next start investing into fire tree for SLA

hot bar: sonic blast, Electric Loop SLA, the other air sla, scorching ray, maxemp fireball when dumping mana/overwhelmed... csw pots

HardRobble
02-20-2014, 02:40 AM
new sorc, air fire

human sorc 7
maximize, empower
sf:evo
gsf:evo

spells:
sonic blast, jump; two of exp.retreat, shield, detect secret doors
scorching ray, blur, knock
fireball

enhancements @7
air savant for Electric Loop SLA (maxemp for free), next start investing into fire tree for SLA

hot bar: sonic blast, Electric Loop SLA, the other air sla, scorching ray, maxemp fireball when dumping mana/overwhelmed... csw pots

Thanks for the reply. Would human really be better than war forged? If I went warforged how would you change the lineup?

Thanks!

MRMechMan
02-20-2014, 05:05 AM
Thanks for the reply. Would human really be better than war forged? If I went warforged how would you change the lineup?

Thanks!

Warforged is fine. Take the 2nd level repair (no need for 1st as can use pots, too many good 3rd level spells). Maxed and emped it hits enough to hold you over till reconstruct. Keep an unmetaed version on your hotbar as well for use outside of battle, as it will save you tons of SP.

I usually go acid or fire specced but fire/elec is good as well-elec IS more DC based though so WF is a slightly worse choice (but still strong).

Scorching ray, fireball, wall of fire will be your main offensive spells, jump/haste/displace/rage/nightshield are main buffs, knock/invis for utility. Korthos boots of 2x5min are plenty of expeditious retreat.

Get Max and Empower asap. Try and group mobs up as much as possible before AOEing them and your SP will last much longer. Often new arcanes play like melee and try and take down mobs 1 at a time. On a sorc that's slow and inefficient. Zerg more. Profit.

HardRobble
02-20-2014, 11:51 AM
good stuff so far.
another question..

it seems obvious to max chr at 16 and work on con.. how should i distribute exactly on a 32 point build? I played around last night putting everything to 10 (except maybe dex - can't remember), maxing chr at 16, and getting con to 17. that was only giving me 2 skill points per level though. should i sacrifice some con to raise int for more skill points? I get one more point by the time i hit level 7.

Cardtrick
02-20-2014, 01:19 PM
good stuff so far.
another question..

it seems obvious to max chr at 16 and work on con.. how should i distribute exactly on a 32 point build? I played around last night putting everything to 10 (except maybe dex - can't remember), maxing chr at 16, and getting con to 17. that was only giving me 2 skill points per level though. should i sacrifice some con to raise int for more skill points? I get one more point by the time i hit level 7.

Here's a basic 32-point warforged pure sorcerer air/fire build. 12 int is pretty much the minimum I'd go these days, unless tomes are available. (You want as much Concentration, Spellcraft, and Repair as you can get.)

Spell list is pretty flexible, but this is decent. It's the kind of list I'd go for with my playstyle (mostly soloing, but grouping enough that I want to make sure to have the essential group buffs). For whatever it's worth, I actually prefer fire/earth for leveling, but this is fine too.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Pure Sorc
Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Sorcerer)
Hit Points: 200
Spell Points: 1875
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10 10
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 18 18 20
Intelligence 12 12 12
Wisdom 6 6 6
Charisma 16 21 25

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1 -1
Bluff 3 8 8
Concentration 8 28 28
Diplomacy 3 7 7
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 3 7 7
Heal -2 -2 -2
Hide -1 -1 -1
Intimidate 3 7 7
Jump 0 0 0
Listen -2 -2 -2
Move Silently -1 -1 -1
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 11 11
Search 1 1 1
Spellcraft 5 24 24
Spot -2 -2 -2
Swim 0 0 0
Tumble 0 0 0
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Sonic Blast


Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Spell (1): Jump


Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray


Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Blur


Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (3): Fireball


Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (2): Web


Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire


Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (2): Knock
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (4): Repair Critical Damage


Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge


Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (3): Rage
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold


Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (6): Reconstruct


Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (4): Solid Fog
Spell (5): Prismatic Ray
Spell (6): Chain Lightning


Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball


Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Enlarge Spell
Spell (5): Cyclonic Blast
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (7): Protection from Elements, Mass


Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (8): Greater Shout


Level 17 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (8): Incendiary Cloud


Level 18 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee


Level 19 (Sorcerer)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Repair (+0.5)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (8): Symbol of Death
Spell (9): Meteor Swarm


Level 20 (Sorcerer)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Greater Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Conduction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Light on Your Feet (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Elemental Apotheosis (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Shocking Grasp (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electric Loop (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Feather Falling (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Lightning Bolt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Lightning Bolt (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Lightning Bolt (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Electric (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Wind Dance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Power of Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)




Depending on how you're doing with spellpoints, and what kind of gear you have access to, you might consider dropping GSF: Evocation and Enlarge in favor of Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness. The other feats are pretty much non-negotiable, though.

Note that the build above has the enhancements listed at level 20. As you can see, it's Air primary with Fire secondary. While leveling, at least up through level 16 or so, I would say that going Fire primary is dramatically more powerful.

So these are the enhancements I'd have at level 7, when your vet status guy starts:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)


I think there are 2 reasonable places to swap to Air Savant -- either at level 16, when you get Delayed Blast Fireball (which is fairly cheap for the damage it does and can replace the fire SLAs as your primary room-clearer), or at level 18, when you really start running a lot of content with fire-immune devils.

Assuming you swap to air primary at 16, my final set of fire enhancements (at level 15), would look like:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Greater Air Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Electrocution (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Alternating Current (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Electric III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Immolation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire IV (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fireball (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Awaken Elemental Weakness: Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Power of Lightning (Rank 1)


Notes on stats/skills

It might be better to lose the 2 points from STR and add them to INT, and then put skillpoints into UMD. I probably would do this myself. I hate going with 8 STR, though; it's too easy to become burdened and helpless. Those extra 2 points make a big difference. Warforged arcane casters are literally the only type of characters I don't feel like it's mandatory to have UMD on, though; you have access to almost everything you need innately. Raise Dead / Resurrect scrolls are the exceptions, especially since this is a first lifer and won't have Greensteel clickies. So it's up to you.

Notes on spells

I mostly didn't choose spells that you can cast almost as effectively from scrolls. So no Invisiblity, no Teleport, no Fire Shield, no Greater Heroism, no True Seeing, etc. Those are obviously still immensely valuable spells, but you can just carry stacks of scrolls.

Generally speaking, I tried to choose spells in an order that will prevent having to swap them a lot. But there are still a couple of obvious spells to swap out over time. You will eventually want to remove expeditious retreat (once you get better striding items/clickies/etc., or if you have enough SP and patience to just keep Haste up all the time). Protection From Evil is by far the best replacement there; it's worth casting even at cap, and I've heard that the immunities don't always work properly when applied from other sources. You'll almost certainly want to replace Repair Critical with something else -- Force Missiles is one unexciting but useful option, for enemies that are immune or heavily resistant to everything else (Shroud portals . . .).

If you group most of the time, you should consider replacing Knock with Resist Energy. I used to consider Resist Energy mandatory, but now with ship buffs and pretty easily accessible Resist 20 potions, I prefer being able to open chests when I'm soloing. (Note that I say this even as someone who doesn't use ship buffs -- I'd rather just drink potions than not be able to open chests.) I guess Blur would be another option to drop, now that it's become much more easily available as an item effect for non-casters, but I still like to keep it; I really like the duration even on myself for when I forget to re-cast Displacement in time.

Keep Sonic Blast. Seriously. Have it set to all metas always off and an easily accessible key. It is by far the best breakables-smasher in the game, and its daze effect works on almost everything and remains shocking useful even in elite content in the high heroic levels. I have good gear, but my warforged fire savant was running in heroic elite Shadows Over Wheloon content last night and regularly getting dazes against large groups with Sonic Blast.

Keep Scorching Ray. It may not look super impressive when you just read the description, but with solid spellpower it's ridiculous. High damage, low SP, easy targeting, double range, short cooldown. I spam it all the time in between SLAs. Probably my most used spell.

For the veterans out there, no, I don't take firewall myself anymore. But my sorcerers have an Archmagi ioun stone at L5 and a greensteel SP item at L11 -- I can afford to lose a little SP efficiency in favor of speed. This character is a first life build, and it needs a way to do efficient damage over time in long quests in the mid levels, many of which are undead heavy (Wiz King, Necro3, etc.).

I took Meteor Storm because you specifically mentioned wanting it. I wouldn't actually select this -- even without being Necro/Enchantment specced, I'd rather have Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee, and Mass Hold Monster as my level 9 spells. I get enough DPS from the lower level spells and SLAs; I'd rather have the irreplaceable effects of the other good L9 spells. (Note that, although your DCs won't be great, with equipment and judicious use of Symbol of Death / Energy Drain to remove levels, you will be able to use Wail and MHM to good effect. Also, Wail is useful even if the enemies save -- it still drains levels.)

If you do decide to go for MHM, you'll probably want some additional way to debuff Will saves. Swapping Firewall / Repair Critical / Force Missiles for Crushing Despair and then swapping either Prismatic Ray or Cyclonic Blast for Mind Fog would be the way to go. (You cast Crushing Despair first, which gives a -5 to Will saves even if they save against the primary effect, then Mind Fog, which gives a further - 10 if they fail their initial save. Then you cast MHM. Optionally, kite through a Symbol of Death first to drain a few levels.)

Notes on Play

All the metas are primarily for your SLAs. Drag them to your hotbar, right click on the SLA, and choose to turn each meta to "Always On". Other than that, most of the metas will be off most of the time.

When you get Reconstruct, set Quicken to "Always On". Bind that somewhere easily accessible and use it as an emergency "oh no" heal. I have Reconstruct bound to my "f" key. My SLAs are always 2, 3, and 4. Scorching Ray is 1, Sonic Blast (all metas set to Always Off) is 5. Experiment with bindings and find something that works for you.

Always have good spellpower and lore items for your primary and secondary elements. Ideally, also for Repair, although that's less important. Bear in mind that the Cannith Challenge items (Bracers of Wind, Ring of Master Artificer, Cloak of Flames) can be very useful to accomplish this if you're having trouble finding appropriate weapons to do it.

Learn to jump-cast. Jump is an absolutely essential spell that you'll keep running all the time. You'll pretty much always be jumping. For ray spells, this is to get a good line of sight. For AOE spells (fireball, DBF), it's because often the best way to hit multiple enemies is to get a bunch of guys chasing you and then jump back and shoot straight down.

Don't rely too much on your SLAs. It's nice, because they're basically free. But the cooldown is quite slow and at higher levels the damage is good but not great. It's more SP-efficient to open with a DBF followed by an SLA fireball, then mop up with scorch / burning hands SLAs and scorching ray, than it is to just use your SLAs and kill so slowly that you get hurt and have to Reconstruct yourself a couple of times. Reconstruct is awesome, but it's not free. Better to kill guys so fast you don't get hurt.

unbongwah
02-20-2014, 01:34 PM
I don't know if I'll want to multiclass - will i lose meteor swarm if I do?
Only if you drop below sorc 18. The most common splashes are pal 2 for Div Grace (+CHA to saves) and FvS 2 for AoV bonuses (see Scorcher (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/425269-The-Scorcher-(WF-18-Sorc-2-Fvs-Shiradi)) for one example).

Ancient
02-20-2014, 01:38 PM
At low levels, I would suggest going both Earth/Fire savant, even if you don't take spells in that area.

For a minimal investment of AP, you can have both burning hands and acid splash SLAs which gives you a nice set of low cost hard hitting area of effect SLAs. The SLAs let you use empower/maximize for free.

Ancient
02-20-2014, 01:45 PM
Keep Scorching Ray. It may not look super impressive when you just read the description, but with solid spellpower it's ridiculous. High damage, low SP, easy targeting, double range, short cooldown. I spam it all the time in between SLAs. Probably my most used spell.

Scorch and Chain missile are great filler spells. Cast them with no metas.

SLA Fireball -> filler -> SLA Scorch -> filler -> SLA Burning Hands -> filler -> Repeat

When facing a large group, I use chain missile as the filler. Against smaller groups, I tend to use scorching ray.

(BTW, CardTrick had a lot of good advice in that post)

Cardtrick
02-20-2014, 02:02 PM
At low levels, I would suggest going both Earth/Fire savant, even if you don't take spells in that area.

For a minimal investment of AP, you can have both burning hands and acid splash SLAs which gives you a nice set of low cost hard hitting area of effect SLAs. The SLAs let you use empower/maximize for free.

I definitely agree with this. Especially on a warforged, I'm not impressed with air savant at low levels. I went fire/air in that post because that's what he asked for, but I really don't care for air savant until wind dance becomes an option. (My main guy is currently on a sorcerer life at level 18, almost enough XP banked to take 20, and I stayed fire/force the whole way with just a little bit of earth. I actually went Sorc 16, then FvS at 17 and 18 for Just Rewards - it's ridiculous how awesome it is. I basically never shrine.)


Scorch and Chain missile are great filler spells. Cast them with no metas.

SLA Fireball -> filler -> SLA Scorch -> filler -> SLA Burning Hands -> filler -> Repeat

When facing a large group, I use chain missile as the filler. Against smaller groups, I tend to use scorching ray.


You say "Scorch", but I assume you mean Scorching Ray? If so, I totally agree, and this is what my main does. Although against groups I'll typically open first with a single un-meta-ed DBF, and then swap to that cycle.

Wipey
02-20-2014, 02:20 PM
Huh, unmetaed DBF ?
Full meta Fireball, DBF or Otiluke one shots whole rooms at level Elites with good gear and enough caster levels ( no heavy splashes ).
Last time I played sorc was before EP but 500- 600 Fireball crits in von3 and 700- 1k DBF in GH or 1200 Otiluke in Vale is ridiculous lol.
Why fiddle with SLAs and stuff. It's not bad in addition and to finish almost dead things but ...go BIG on sorc ( you can play really dumb in heroics at least ).

You need like 4 spells in heroic on toaster ( dbf, haste, fireball and recon ). Ok maybe just half kidding :)

HardRobble
02-20-2014, 02:53 PM
wow, this thread exploded with good advice. I really appreciate it.

I am going to delete the char I started last night and make a new one using all the tips given.

Ancient
02-20-2014, 03:14 PM
You say "Scorch", but I assume you mean Scorching Ray? If so, I totally agree, and this is what my main does. Although against groups I'll typically open first with a single un-meta-ed DBF, and then swap to that cycle.
Yes, scorching ray. My bad.

Cardtrick
02-20-2014, 03:20 PM
Huh, unmetaed DBF ?
Full meta Fireball, DBF or Otiluke one shots whole rooms at level Elites with good gear and enough caster levels ( no heavy splashes ).
Last time I played sorc was before EP but 500- 600 Fireball crits in von3 and 700- 1k DBF in GH or 1200 Otiluke in Vale is ridiculous lol.
Why fiddle with SLAs and stuff. It's not bad in addition and to finish almost dead things but ...go BIG on sorc ( you can play really dumb in heroics at least ).

You need like 4 spells in heroic on toaster ( dbf, haste, fireball and recon ). Ok maybe just half kidding :)

I used to feel the same way, but with the enhancement pass and the way spellpower works now, I just don't find maximize/empower to be worth the SP cost most of the time. They no longer multiply damage, they add to it. It was different when maximize used to double the power of a spell for 25 SP. But now, when you've got a base of 200+ fire spell power, which is easily attainable pretty early on (enhancements, combustion items, combustion potions, implement bonus, spellcraft skill), a maximize is going to be adding less than 50% additional damage to the spell. (E.g., if the DBF would do a base of 100 damage, with 200 fire spell power it instead does 300 damage. Adding Maximize on top of that makes it do 450, for a 50% increase.) To me, that's usually not worth doubling the cost of the spell, when I could instead cast it un-metaed and follow up with my fully-metaed SLAs.

In an endfight, or against something that just must die right now, or if I'm running with a group and I know they're going to be stopping to shrine soon . . . then sure, I'll turn on the metas and go to town. But most of the time, I really like not having to ever stop to shrine.

Also, I have a separate maximized/empowered version of Scorching Ray on my quick bar. I use it for beholders. It's a bit expensive, but one or two of them is usually enough to kill a beholder quickly enough from far enough away that I don't get anti-magiced and lose my buffs; saving the SP from recasting buffs is worth it.

rayworks
02-20-2014, 03:42 PM
Don't forget to invest in UMD, espeically if you're a fleshie. Heal scrolls are cheap insurance.

HardRobble
02-20-2014, 03:51 PM
So these are the enhancements I'd have at level 7, when your vet status guy starts:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Air Savant (Sor) - Air Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Savant (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Greater Fire Affinity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Burning Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Conflagration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Fanning the Flames (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Spell Critical: Fire III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Scorch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Fire Savant (Sor) - Charisma (Rank 1)


I didn't have enough AP to get the last 2 scorch ranks or the 2nd charisma. Was that actually for higher than lvl 7 or did I perhaps select something wrong? (I looked but seemed to have the correct choices)

Can't wait to get home and try it out. RDP works fine for character generation but I can't actually play at 10fps.

HungarianRhapsody
02-20-2014, 04:01 PM
Just got veteran II so i can start characters at lvl 7. Now I want to try my hand at a sorcerer since I'll skip the most squishy stage. I've never played a sorcerer (or any other spell caster other than paladin)

I know I want to go fire/air. I don't know if I'll want to multiclass - will i lose meteor swarm if I do? I've read about several builds and just got confused and most of them were talking about after TR'ing/past lives and 36 point builds. This is for a first playthrough.


Any tips? What race and stats should I start with? I will have 32 points. What feats should I go for? I don't need it detailed out to lvl 20 yet but but to level 10 would be fine for now. What will be my main spells etc..


Of course I want DPS and survivability when I start taking aggro.

thanks for any suggestions!

My opinion:
Fireball takes care of almost everything until you get Delayed Blast Fireball. Warforged and Bladeforged are both fantastic because of the self-healing. If Fireball doesn't kill something, then you can probably just run past it and ignore it. For the few occasions where you MUST kill something that Fireball won't touch, there are a few alternate spells that can take care of things for you. Magic Missile doesn't do a lot of damage, but it's cheap and you can spam it over and over and very few things are immune/resistant to it.

Wipey
02-20-2014, 05:45 PM
I used to feel the same way, but with the enhancement pass and the way spellpower works now, I just don't find maximize/empower to be worth the SP cost most of the time.
Ahh I see your point, I guess it makes more sense in newbie sorc thread :)
Twinked vet probably still doesn't run into "sp problems" in heroics though.
My TR buddy is pure sorc now ( carrying my gimp ass splashed Shiradi- to- be wizzy ) and nothing seems changed, stuff just evaporates anyway !

Cardtrick
02-20-2014, 06:09 PM
I didn't have enough AP to get the last 2 scorch ranks or the 2nd charisma. Was that actually for higher than lvl 7 or did I perhaps select something wrong? (I looked but seemed to have the correct choices)

Can't wait to get home and try it out. RDP works fine for character generation but I can't actually play at 10fps.

Ah, that's my bad. I forgot that Vet status starts you off at the beginning of level 7, with 4 APs left to go. You did it right -- I was just already including the APs you'll earn during that level.

Have fun with it, sorcerers are a blast!


Ahh I see your point, I guess it makes more sense in newbie sorc thread :)
Twinked vet probably still doesn't run into "sp problems" in heroics though.
My TR buddy is pure sorc now ( carrying my gimp ass splashed Shiradi- to- be wizzy ) and nothing seems changed, stuff just evaporates anyway !

Yeah, exactly -- if you've got SP items and a Cove trinket for stacking SP right from the beginning, then an unsuppressed Vibrant Purple Ioun Stone for Archmagi at level 5, then greensteel SP items, torc, and Conc Opp at level 11 -- then you might choose not to worry about the SP efficiency so much. But when this is a new 32-point build with no twinkage, I think you're better of milking the SP a bit.

HardRobble
02-24-2014, 07:35 AM
now i jsut made lvl 9 and i'm not sure what feat I should go with. Any advice for feats, spells and enhancements? maybe through the next few levels. I've noticed i have no good spell for fire immune creatures.

Trillea
02-24-2014, 08:06 AM
now i jsut made lvl 9 and i'm not sure what feat I should go with. Any advice for feats, spells and enhancements? maybe through the next few levels. I've noticed i have no good spell for fire immune creatures.

For fire immune I would suggest magic missile, force missiles, and chain missile. Force FTW. Also, take disintegrate as soon as you can since iron golems just melt when it's meta'd.

Cardtrick
02-24-2014, 12:02 PM
now i jsut made lvl 9 and i'm not sure what feat I should go with. Any advice for feats, spells and enhancements? maybe through the next few levels. I've noticed i have no good spell for fire immune creatures.

Did you take Heighten yet? You'll want it for SLAs if nothing else, especially if you still end up going Air primary like you were planning.

As for fire immune enemies, it is sort of a problem in the level range you're at when going fire/air, just because there aren't many good low-level non-SLA air spells that are worth keeping at cap. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I do prefer either fire/acid (Melf's and Acid Rain) or fire/force (magic/force/chain missile) for leveling, partly because of this. With quest knowledge, it's very possible -- and probably most efficient -- to mostly avoid quests that have many fire immune enemies who you actually have to kill, at least until you get into the upper teen levels (at which point, you'll have plenty of options to deal with them).

If you do want to have significant fire-immune-killing arsenal, I agree with Trillea that the best option is probably to swap out one or two spells in favor of the force "Missile" spells (and probably swap the spells back at higher levels).

Another option is to respec your enhancements (no 3-day time limit on respeccing enhancements like there is for swapping spells, and it's cheap) to move more into the Air Savant tree and take the first 2 tiers of Electric SLAs. It will mean backing way off the Fire Savant enhancements for now, since you're still pretty AP-starved at level 9, but that's fine -- you can always swap back later at any time. If you go that route, you'd continue using a lot of the fire spells (Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire are all very useful), and you should continue investing in the Fire Savant tree to enhance them, but your SLAs would instead be electric. (It definitely hurts your speed/power not having a Fireball SLA, but Lighting Bolt isn't too bad -- you just have to aim it a lot more carefully. Electric Loop is actually really nice for the CC.)

Until you get into the higher levels, with lots of devils, the only fire immune enemies you'll face are typically not threats, since they primarily do fire damage themselves -- as long as you're casting fire shield (blue) and have some fire resistance, they're easy to handle, and if it takes you a little time due to using missile spells or SLAs, there's really no danger.

HardRobble
02-25-2014, 03:24 AM
how does stacking spell points on equipment work?

Cardtrick
02-25-2014, 10:28 AM
how does stacking spell points on equipment work?

The same as (nearly) any other type of bonus in the game -- bonuses of different types stack, but for bonuses of the same type, only the largest one counts.

Most spell point boosts from equipment are of type "Enhancement", meaning only the largest one counts. These include the standard Power, Wizardry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Wizardry), Magi, Archmagi enchantments.

There are a few other types of spellpoint bonus. The most notable are Elemental Spell Power (http://ddowiki.com/page/Elemental_Spell_Power) (which gives 50 spell points) and Greater Elemental Spell Power (which gives 100). These two bonuses are actually considered separate types, so they do stack with each other, for an extra 150 spellpoints (300 on a sorcerer or favored soul). The most common place to get this bonus is from green steel crafting by running the Shroud raid. It's also available on a very few other high level sources. There are also weird things like the Greater Cunning Trinket (http://ddowiki.com/page/Greater_Cunning_Trinket) from the recurring Crystal Cove event, which gives 50 points that stack with everything.

Finally, remember that on a sorcerer, boosting your Charisma modifier will also boost your spell points. There are more ways to increase a base stat like Charisma than there are to directly boost spell points, so this is definitely an important thing to look at when you're trying to increase your SP pool. Of course, increase Charisma has an even more important benefit -- it will increase the DCs on your spells so that enemies save less and take more damage, hopefully meaning you need to cast less and saving even more spell points in the long run.

HardRobble
02-26-2014, 02:48 PM
thanks, you just opened up 3 equipment slots for me to put other things in.

Cardtrick
02-26-2014, 05:58 PM
thanks, you just opened up 3 equipment slots for me to put other things in.

Haha, great!

One other thing worth mentioning -- it's less important at low levels, but at higher levels when you start getting a ton of gear, some of which is named loot and has odd combinations of effects, you may want to consider not wearing your biggest SP item all the time, just because you have so much other good stuff you want to wear.

At the start of quests and after shrines, you will presumably have a lot of buffs to cast. What a lot of us do is wear a "swappable" SP item for shrining, cast our buffs to use up the extra SP, and then swap that slot to something more useful. Now, you're not going to be spending 400 SP on buffing, probably, so it doesn't make sense to swap from an archmagi item to nothing. But if you have one of the Cove trinkets, or if you're getting Wizardry VI and some other useful effects from one item that you wear all the time but could instead use an Archmagi item, it can make a lot of sense to consider doing something like this.

HardRobble
02-27-2014, 12:52 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it and I've been having a lot of fun with my sorc. In groups I've come to LOVE firewall.

Anyway, I am now level 10 with enough xp banked to go lvl 11 so I have kinda outgrowna lot of the advice. Cardtrick has given me enhancements to lvl 15 but I'm wondering what spells to go with now. The last spell I took at lvl 10 was the 5th lvl cloudkill. I don't know if that was a great choice but I'm using it in place of firewall against fire immune creatures (actually now after reading the wiki on cloudkill it probably is NOT the best lvl 5 spell I could have chosen). What spell progression should I go with. (too bad I have to wait until lvl 12 to get my fb sla)

Also, I've heard dimension door is great but what exactly would I be using it for?

Also I think I will probably take the pally splash for the saves since when I fail a save I often get 1 shot. Should I wait until i get to sorc 18 to do that?

jsut a side note, I love running a xp pot and getting elite bravery bonuses - I sometimes break 20k xp on a quest. I got 23k on one last night.

Cardtrick
02-27-2014, 03:00 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it and I've been having a lot of fun with my sorc. In groups I've come to LOVE firewall.

Anyway, I am now level 10 with enough xp banked to go lvl 11 so I have kinda outgrowna lot of the advice. Cardtrick has given me enhancements to lvl 15 but I'm wondering what spells to go with now. The last spell I took at lvl 10 was the 5th lvl cloudkill. I don't know if that was a great choice but I'm using it in place of firewall against fire immune creatures (actually now after reading the wiki on cloudkill it probably is NOT the best lvl 5 spell I could have chosen). What spell progression should I go with. (too bad I have to wait until lvl 12 to get my fb sla)

Also, I've heard dimension door is great but what exactly would I be using it for?

Also I think I will probably take the pally splash for the saves since when I fail a save I often get 1 shot. Should I wait until i get to sorc 18 to do that?

jsut a side note, I love running a xp pot and getting elite bravery bonuses - I sometimes break 20k xp on a quest. I got 23k on one last night.

Cloudkill isn't bad at all. It's actually useful even at cap, for the Concealment effect it provides (20% miss chance for enemies fighting in the cloud), without having an overly annoying visual effect.

The main reason I didn't suggest cloudkill is that you were planning on a fire/air sorcerer -- cloudkill's duration and damage will be negatively impacted due to the reduced caster level from the air savant tree. Plus, as a fire/air sorcerer, you're unlikely to be carrying much in the way of Corrosion/Acid Lore gear. But if you're finding it useful now, great! And honestly, none of those drawbacks matter later on if you want to use it at cap just as a means of providing Concealment.

Dimension Door is not always useful -- but when it is useful, it's irreplaceable; no clickies, and and you can't buy scrolls of it. A lot of groups will expect any arcane to carry it. But for someone primarily soloing, it depends a lot on your playstyle. In a very few quests, DDoor, allows you to solo something you otherwise couldn't (because it lets you get out of situations where a solo player has to pull a lever and then get locked in a room until someone else pulls a different lever). More often, it allows you to save some time -- whether that's just a few seconds, from DDooring out rather than recalling out, or much more, by allowing you to skip a bunch of running. (Or by letting you zerg to a required objective, ignoring all the enemies on the way, then grab an item or pull a lever and DDoor back without having to ever fight the giant mob trailing behind you.) It is most essential when soloing the Challenges and Crystal Cove, since rapid movement is the absolute key to a good ingredient haul, and since even the kobolds carrying crystals can use a DDoor once you've plopped it down. So if you're a zerger, or if you're interested in the Challenges, you'll find it a lot more useful than someone who plays slow and deliberately.

My preference on the pali splash, if you're going to do it at all, is to wait until either you've got 14, 16, or 18 sorcerer levels. These are the levels at which you get access to 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells, respectively. 14 gets you Delayed Blast Fireball, if you're going primarily fire which is a huge increase in your damage potential. 16 gets you some useful 8th level spells, although less so for fire/air (Black Dragon Bolt and Polar Ray for single-target boss damage are the real treats here, but they're earth and ice). Even without those spells, I personally like the 8th level spells Greater Shout, Otto's Irresistable Dance, and Symbol of Death -- even on a sorcerer, I prefer not to be a pure DPS machine. 18 gets you your choice of Wail, Meteor Storm, or Energy Drain.

That said, if you're having trouble with failed saves, be sure to take a look at your gear, too. The Paladin save boost is a big help, but it's not going to do enough on its own. You should be wearing the highest level Resistance item you can find (I think +4 to all saves should be achievable at your level). You should also be wearing a DEX item, even if it doesn't seem like you need it. +6 to DEX is +3 to reflex saves, which are typically the most important. Also consider wearing some lootgen Parrying bracers -- the Save bonus these give is of type Insight, which means it stacks with Resistance. Finally, as you get up in levels, one item I really like on warforged sorcerers is the Infused Chaos Docent (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Infused_Chaos_Docent). It boosts the caster level of all your evocation spells and randomly procs an alchemical increase to one of the elemental damage types. But just as importantly, it can be upgraded (http://ddowiki.com/page/Trace_of_Madness) to give +10 to Reflex save. That doesn't stack with Resistance, but it's still a much higher reflex save bonus than you can get anywhere else in the heroic levels.

Also, if you really are considering a splash, you should consider doing 2 levels of favored soul, either in addition to -- or instead of -- the paladin levels. Favored souls have a nice save progression, so there's some benefit there, but the biggest reason is that there is a second tier enhancement in the Angel of Vengeance tree called "Just Rewards" -- this gives you bonus spellpoints every time you score a critical hit with a fire, force, light, or physical spell. Even better, there are more AoV enhancements available to give you bonus critical chance and spellpower with these sames types of spells. The SP savings is huge. Certain level spells, if you can get a high enough critical chance, actually gain you spellpoints on average when you cast them.

Now, obviously there's a lot more synergy with a fire/force sorcerer than a fire/air, it's still worth at least considering. Again, this is purely my opinion, but I think the easiest way to level a sorcerer is to do straight sorcerer for either 14 or 16 levels, speccing fire/force with a minor dip into acid, then 2 levels of favored soul. Then, if you went 14 sorc, take another 2 sorc to get to 18. Either way, at 18 you're 16 sorc/2 fvs. Then you don't level up again until you hit 20 -- just bank all your XP. Those last 2 levels can therefore be anything -- 2 more sorc, for a 9th level spell, 2 more fvS, for more fire/force critical chance, or 2 paladin, for saves. I just really don't feel like the bonus saves from paladin are particularly necessary until epic levels, whereas extra SP from favored soul is a big help in leveling quickly.

EDIT: More thoughts on saves:

Where exactly are you failing them? And what type?

If it's to elemental traps, I suggest keeping Protection from Elements up all the time (use scrolls if you didn't take the spell, particularly scrolls of Mass Protection from Elements, since they have a higher caster level).

If to physical traps, keep Jump cast on yourself all the time, and be aware that DDO's traps are actually simulated quite thoroughly -- if you can avoid the spinning/slashing/chopping visual indication of a trap, you can usually avoid the damage.

If to casters, be sure that you're prioritizing them first. Most low and even mid level casters will die to one or two scorching rays, which -- if you remember -- have double range. You can often hit the casters before they can hit you. Also, my way earlier suggestion of keeping un-metaed Sonic Blast tied to an easily accessible key remains true. It costs basically no SP, targets a save that is typically fairly low (Will), and uses your Evocation DCs (which you should be keeping as high as possible anyway) -- even as late as elite Gianthold quests, an un-heightened Sonic Blast from a reasonably well geared sorcerer will usually Daze most targets it hits. That only lasts 6 seconds, but it should be long enough for you to kill the casters before they can hit you.

You know what they say -- the best defense is a good offense. For a sorcerer, who gets low HP and saves progressions but immense offensive potential, that's especially true. The best way to deal with low saves is never even to have to make them. (Obviously that's not always possible, especially in epics, and I don't want to entirely discourage the paladin splash -- I just think that if you want to do it at all, you should push it later.)

cru121
02-27-2014, 04:11 PM
I take dimension door on my sorc at level 8.
I am using it in the following level 6 quests:
* Caged Trolls to return to the entrance to loot the vault at the end
* Redwillow Ruins to quickly return to start to return collected stuff to dude.
* The Bounty Hunter after acquiring the key to boss room
* Sorrowdusk Isle to quickly travel through wilderness from Bruku back to quest entrance

I postpone Wall of Fire at 9; I really like it to burninate through Graverobber.

HardRobble
02-27-2014, 04:41 PM
one electrical trap that was giving me a really hard time had the electrical pulses coming down in random spots from the ceiling. don't remember which quest but one hit and I was dead - twice. someone in the group mentioned i must have low wisdom - which i do at 9. got some wis gear after that quest but i haven't been back to "test" it.

occasionally i'll get one shot by a spell from a monster but don't know which spell they were casting. it's not a death spell since I have an immunity from death spells gear. my fortitude is over 100 too i think

Cardtrick
02-27-2014, 05:30 PM
one electrical trap that was giving me a really hard time had the electrical pulses coming down in random spots from the ceiling. don't remember which quest but one hit and I was dead - twice. someone in the group mentioned i must have low wisdom - which i do at 9. got some wis gear after that quest but i haven't been back to "test" it.

Wisdom only affects your Will save, which is typically used to resist enchantments. As a warforged sorcerer who can self-cast Protection From Evil, you're actually immune to most (but not all) effects that target your Will Save. Wisdom is probably the single lowest priority stat for you.

I definitely can't think of any lightning damage that checks your Will save. It's possible there's something, but it would be very odd. I wonder if the person in the group was instead suggesting that there was a Wisdom rune you could use to turn off the trap?

Damaging spells and traps instead usually check your Reflex save, which is based on Dexterity.

I'm not sure which quest you're talking about with random lightning coming from the ceiling. It kind of sounds like Recovering the Lost Tome, but that's a level 2 quest, which you probably didn't do since you started at level 7. Also the runes there to turn off the lightning are INT based, so Wisdom still wouldn't make much sense.

As a general rule, most traps are Reflex saves. Poison traps are Fortitude saves. Illusionary and certain magical traps can be anything, including Will, but I'm not sure off-hand if there are any lightning ones like that around the level you're running. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will chime in.

But regardless, the most important save for avoiding trap damage and taking half damage on spells is Reflex.


occasionally i'll get one shot by a spell from a monster but don't know which spell they were casting. it's not a death spell since I have an immunity from death spells gear. my fortitude is over 100 too i think

Your fortitude can't be over 100 . . . do you mean your hitpoints?

If you mean hitpoints, that's actually on the low side for level 10, especially if you're running Elite difficulty. Try to find as good a CON bonus item as you can. Also, wear the best False Life item you can get. You're getting close to the levels when wearing a Minos Legens or some other item/augment with Vitality becomes possible (Vitality is another type of HP bonus that stacks with the Enhancement bonus from False Life). If you're having trouble on gear, back out of the savant trees a bit and put more points into the Warforged tree to get the HP up; being unable to be one-shotted is more important than nearly anything else, and you can always readjust the points later on once you've got better gear for HP.

HardRobble
02-27-2014, 05:40 PM
Your fortitude can't be over 100 . . . do you mean your hitpoints?

If you mean hitpoints, that's actually on the low side for level 10, especially if you're running Elite difficulty. Try to find as good a CON bonus item as you can. Also, wear the best False Life item you can get. You're getting close to the levels when wearing a Minos Legens or some other item/augment with Vitality becomes possible (Vitality is another type of HP bonus that stacks with the Enhancement bonus from False Life). If you're having trouble on gear, back out of the savant trees a bit and put more points into the Warforged tree to get the HP up; being unable to be one-shotted is more important than nearly anything else, and you can always readjust the points later on once you've got better gear for HP.

Guess I was wrong about the fortitude.. for some reason I thought I saw 120 at some point. my current hp is around 140. On my fire enhancement tree I've got all the "good" ones I can grab until I hit level 12 and can get the FB sla so I had just started grabbing the hp node on the warforged tree.

Cardtrick
02-27-2014, 06:26 PM
Guess I was wrong about the fortitude.. for some reason I thought I saw 120 at some point. my current hp is around 140. On my fire enhancement tree I've got all the "good" ones I can grab until I hit level 12 and can get the FB sla so I had just started grabbing the hp node on the warforged tree.

Yeah, that's definitely a reasonable number for a first life character at your level. There shouldn't be much of anything (except certain Elite traps) that can one-shot you at the level of the quests you're running, if you're fairly proactive about keeping your health topped up when it dips down.

HardRobble
02-27-2014, 06:36 PM
Yeah, that's definitely a reasonable number for a first life character at your level. There shouldn't be much of anything (except certain Elite traps) that can one-shot you at the level of the quests you're running, if you're fairly proactive about keeping your health topped up when it dips down.

The one with electrical was a lvl 10 being run on elite (12) in necropolis.

Is firewall affected by spell power/maximize/empower/heighten?

Cardtrick
02-27-2014, 08:07 PM
Is firewall affected by spell power/maximize/empower/heighten?

Spellpower, maximize, and empower -- yes. Heighten -- no.

Heighten only affects spells that have a DC. Wall of Fire has a DC (with a Reflex save for half damage) on only the first tick of its damage. The remaining ticks (for an enemy staying within the wall) have no save. For this reason, fire wall is not Heighten-able.

It can be Maximized, Empowered, Quickened, and Enlarged.

It's rarely a good idea to apply any of the metamagics to wall of fire, though. It's biggest selling point is efficient damage per spell point, especially for long quests with few shrines. It loses that benefit if you blow up the cost with metas. At that point, you're usually better off using a maximized fireball and not having to worry about waiting around.

One weird little thing while we're talking about fire wall -- unless this has changed, you want to be sure never to cast two fire walls that touch each other. If you do, the first one is cancelled out by the second one.

HardRobble
02-27-2014, 08:22 PM
One weird little thing while we're talking about fire wall -- unless this has changed, you want to be sure never to cast two fire walls that touch each other. If you do, the first one is cancelled out by the second one.

good to know since I do sometimes cast two firewalls. thanks for the info about the meta magics



Your fortitude can't be over 100 . . . do you mean your hitpoints?.

I could have sworn that I saw 120 fort at one point (not at home to check this moment). Since reading your reply I looked it up on the Wiki. It seems that since I am warforged I can stack the racial 25% with other fortification stuff and get over 100. It talks about striving for 150% fort when you are doing epic elites. Perhaps I am still incorrect on this though.

Thanks for all the info you've given in this thread. It's helped me a lot and I've no doubt that it will help future sorcerers who are also just starting. Most threads in this section are for advanced players.

Which spells would you recommend me take between levels 10-15? Also, I've taken no enhancements other than fire and warforged so it's not too late for me to change my mind about going fire/air. I have taken some lightning spells but can change them. I found a dragons blood in a chest.

Cardtrick
02-27-2014, 09:37 PM
good to know since I do sometimes cast two firewalls. thanks for the info about the meta magics
I could have sworn that I saw 120 fort at one point (not at home to check this moment). Since reading your reply I looked it up on the Wiki. It seems that since I am warforged I can stack the racial 25% with other fortification stuff and get over 100. It talks about striving for 150% fort when you are doing epic elites. Perhaps I am still incorrect on this though.

Oh, fortification! I'm sorry, I should have guessed that.

Fortitude is different -- it's one of the three save types (reflex, will, and fortitude).

Fortification is a measure of how well you're able to resist critical hits and sneak attacks. A fortification of 100% means that -- unless the enemy has some means of bypassing fortification -- a critical hit against you will instead just do normal damage. At your level, you definitely do want to be at 100% fortification if possible. It helps avoid damage spikes, which are a lot more likely to kill you than just steady incoming damage. One nice thing about Warforged is that the core tiers in the enhancement trees provide fortification. It's a lot easier to get 100%+ fort at an early level on a warforged than on any other race.

You don't need more than 100% until the high levels -- epics, or at least the very high heroics. Very few enemies before then have any way of bypassing fortification.



Which spells would you recommend me take between levels 10-15? Also, I've taken no enhancements other than fire and warforged so it's not too late for me to change my mind about going fire/air. I have taken some lightning spells but can change them. I found a dragons blood in a chest.

Enhancements are super easy to reset. It costs nothing but plat, and not even very much plat. You can -- and should -- change enhancements several times as you level up, to best fit the gear and spells you have available to you. So don't worry about only being in the fire and warforged tree. If you wanted to switch completely, it's just a matter of a couple thousand plat.

Feat changes are a different matter. You get one free one, but after that, they cost ever-higher levels of siberys dragonshards, which can get very expensive. Fortunately, most sorcerers will take the same feats regardless of what school they're focusing on (earth savants may choose spell focus:conjuration rather than spell focus:evocation).

Spells are harder. It's not expensive to switch one spell, but there's a time limit, as you've no doubt found, of no more than one switch per three days. That's enough to swap out a couple of spells as you level, which you can and should do as your needs change. But a bigger overhaul -- like switching savant types entirely -- requires either a lot of patience or a blood of dragons, like you found. Don't use that too lightly, though -- they can't be purchased in the auction house and they have an extremely low drop rate, except in a few specific dragon-related chests, where the drop rate is just annoyingly low.

Anyway, to directly answer your question . . . it depends on playstyle a lot. For me, Delayed Blast Fireball (a level 7 spell, available at character level 14) is the best single spell in that level range. And regardless of what elements you focus on, you're going to want both Niac's Biting Cold and Eladar's Electric Surge (the 2 level 4 stacking DOTs) for boss DPS. I don't know if this will be helpful, but my last sorcerer (who was fire/force with a minor spec into acid), picked the following spells in the level range you're talking about:



Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Force Missiles

Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Spell (2): Web

Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Eladar's Electric Surge

Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Chain Missiles
Spell (5): Niac's Biting Cold
Spell (4): Dimension Door

Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Reconstruct

Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Spell (5): Protection from Elements
Spell (4): Solid Fog

Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball

Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Disintegrate
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (5): Mind Fog

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Black Dragon Bolt



Different people will have different priorities. I think the only absolute must haves in the level 4-8 spells are Reconstruct (if warforged), DBF (or Otiluke's if going Cold), and the 2 DOTs (regardless of savant type). Everything else is negotiable, although some of them can be a pain to do without.

Protection From Elements is a "sort of" must have. You definitely need the ability to cast a fairly high level Protection From Elements effect on yourself. If you don't take the spell Protection From Elements, you have to either take the higher level Mass Protection From Elements or carry a stack of Mass Protection From Elements scrolls (even if you're just using it on yourself -- the Mass version has a higher caster level than the individual version when cast from a scroll).

HardRobble
02-28-2014, 12:04 PM
Oh, fortification! I'm sorry, I should have guessed that.


oops my bad.. I did say fortitude the first time!

I've hit level 12 and got reconstruct. I've also noticed I have a couple spells I don't use so I do need to do some shuffling. I had plenty APs on hand so that when I hit level 12 that I was able to take the FB sla all the way to level 3 when i could grab it. 6 sp fireball with all the metamagics? heck yes!

Cardtrick
02-28-2014, 01:02 PM
oops my bad.. I did say fortitude the first time!

I've hit level 12 and got reconstruct. I've also noticed I have a couple spells I don't use so I do need to do some shuffling. I had plenty APs on hand so that when I hit level 12 that I was able to take the FB sla all the way to level 3 when i could grab it. 6 sp fireball with all the metamagics? heck yes!

Yup, level 6 (fireball spell), 12 (fireball SLA and Reconstruct), and level 14 (DBF) are the big "Oh man I am unstoppable" levels for a warforged sorcerer. Lots of fun!

And definitely do swap your spells if you don't like them or don't feel like you use them enough. Even though I love sorcerers, that's why in some ways a wizard is a much better first arcane character to play -- there's a lot more freedom to try out different spells and figure out what works for your playstyle.

HardRobble
03-07-2014, 06:07 PM
Yup, level 6 (fireball spell), 12 (fireball SLA and Reconstruct), and level 14 (DBF) are the big "Oh man I am unstoppable" levels for a warforged sorcerer. Lots of fun!

oh yea! made lvl 14 so now with 3 different fireballs on my hot bar I can pretty much spam fireballs rapidly (FB, SLA FB, and DBFB). If it's not fire immune, it's as good as dead.

Each FB offers something different. SLA FB has super low SP cost but only fires horizontally (which sucks), DB FB has highest damage with highest cost, and regular FB is in the middle with lower cost and damage than DBFB but you can fire it up and down.

HardRobble
03-14-2014, 07:28 PM
I made level 17 last night and took a level of paladin. Today I reread the thread since I have a better understanding now of what everyone is advising me. Sorta thinking I should have splashed fvs instead of pally. My survivability has gone up a lot since level 10 when i was getting one shot fairly often so I may not need the charisma bonus on saves as much. Too bad my heart of wood isn't a +1. I don't think i want to do two levels of both pally and fvs but who knows. maybe someone would tell me something to change my mind.

Trillea
03-14-2014, 07:39 PM
I made level 17 last night and took a level of paladin. Today I reread the thread since I have a better understanding now of what everyone is advising me. Sorta thinking I should have splashed fvs instead of pally. My survivability has gone up a lot since level 10 when i was getting one shot fairly often so I may not need the charisma bonus on saves as much. Too bad my heart of wood isn't a +1. I don't think i want to do two levels of both pally and fvs but who knows. maybe someone would tell me something to change my mind.

The pally saves might not seem like necessary now, but they will as soon as you hit 20 and start doing epic quests. Traps and enemy spells can and will one-shot you if you do not save against them. As for going 16/2/2, my personal favorite is 16sorc/2pal/2monk but 16/2pal/2fvs is VERY popular for fire blasters, especially fire/force shiradi casting. Magic missile, force missile, and scorching ray giving 10 SP back per crit and proccing Shiradi per ray/missile is hard to turn down.

unbongwah
03-14-2014, 09:15 PM
Sorta thinking I should have splashed fvs instead of pally. My survivability has gone up a lot since level 10 when i was getting one shot fairly often so I may not need the charisma bonus on saves as much.
As Trillea says, saves are gonna be a lot more important once you hit epics. You'll definitely notice the difference.

The real question is: go sorc 18 / pal 2 or sorc 16 / pal 2 / FvS 2? Advantage to sorc 18 is picking up a lvl 9 spell (probably Meteor Swarm) and lvl 18 core enh; FvS splash lets you pick up AoV enhs (http://ddowiki.com/page/Angel_of_Vengeance_enhancements), specifically Scourge (stacking Spellpower), Smiting (extra crit chance), Just Reward (free SPs on spell crits), and possibly Efficient Maximize (which stacks w/sorc enhs, IIRC) if you have the APs for it. If you want Air Savant as your primary, I'd go sorc 18 / pal 2 to pick up core enh (knockdown immunity).

HardRobble
03-21-2014, 07:18 PM
Many thanks for all the advice in this thread - last night I reached level 20 (18/2 sorc/pally) and bought the epic destinies so I can continue leveling.

At this point I am lost again. I don't really know where I want to go from here much less how to do it.

I've really enjoyed spamming fireball and using chain lightning when the mobs are fire immune but I have noticed I tend to run out of SP between shrines too often. I've thrown meteor storm a few items but wasn't super impressed with its damage output for the spell cost (I think I could do without it). I also get knocked on my butt far too often.

I have tier 5 on fire and I've discovered that it prevents me from getting tier 5 in air - so I have to choose between either fireball SLA or wings.. I also don't yet have enough AP to get the anti knock-down skill in air.

I hear Shiradi is all the rage but looking at the Shiradi tree it appears that it is really meant mostly for bow users. I haven't had a chance yet to really study the epic trees and as of yet I haven't a clue what twists of fate are (I'll read the wiki).

Basically, I want to dish lots of DPS, have decent survivability, and not be super worried about SP (want my cake and eat it too?).


Any more advice for me? (hope i'm not sounding like I want too much hand holding)
I currently still have the beginning lesser heart of wood, and 3 blood of dragons. I wouldn't have much issue with buying a lesser heart +2/3 from the DDO store either. I'm reading about several builds but a lot of the advanced stuff I don't have any experience with so it doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense yet.

unbongwah
03-21-2014, 11:21 PM
I have tier 5 on fire and I've discovered that it prevents me from getting tier 5 in air - so I have to choose between either fireball SLA or wings..
Correct: you're only allowed to have the T5 enhs from one tree at a time.

I also don't yet have enough AP to get the anti knock-down skill in air.
80 APs is the max; if you've hit lvl 20, then there's no more left and you might want to consider respeccing your enhs.

I hear Shiradi is all the rage but looking at the Shiradi tree it appears that it is really meant mostly for bow users.
See all the abilities which say "Ranged, thrown attacks, and offensive spells have an extra 7% chance" of doing X dmg? That's effectively free DPS stacked on top of your spells every time it procs. What you'll want is Prism+Rainbow+Double Rainbow+Nerve Venom; all of those have a chance of proccing on every offensive spell you cast. So the basic premise behind most Shiradi casters is max out your proc chances by spamming as many low-SP spells as you can. The drawback is you have to work your way thru the ED trees to get to Shiradi: Fatesinger -> Shadowdancer -> Legendary Dreadnought -> Shiradi. Have a look at the Mechadi Champion (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/403278-The-Mechadi-Champion-a-shiradi-splashed-sorcerer-EE-capable-first-life-build); it's WF and hasn't been updated for the new Enhancements, but the basic concept is still sound.

For now, though, focus on leveling Draconic Incarnation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Draconic_Incarnation); in particular, Energy Burst will be your new best friend.

HardRobble
03-22-2014, 05:38 AM
Correct: you're only allowed to have the T5 enhs from one tree at a time.

80 APs is the max; if you've hit lvl cap, then there's no more left and you might want to consider respeccing your enhs.

See all the abilities which say "Ranged, thrown attacks, and offensive spells have an extra 7% chance" of doing X dmg? That's effectively free DPS stacked on top of your spells every time it procs. What you'll want is Prism+Rainbow+Double Rainbow+Nerve Venom; all of those have a chance of proccing on every offensive spell you cast. So the basic premise behind most Shiradi casters is max out your proc chances by spamming as many low-SP spells as you can. The drawback is you have to work your way thru the ED trees to get to Shiradi: Fatesinger -> Shadowdancer -> Legendary Dreadnought -> Shiradi. Have a look at the Mechadi Champion (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/403278-The-Mechadi-Champion-a-shiradi-splashed-sorcerer-EE-capable-first-life-build); it's WF and hasn't been updated for the new Enhancements, but the basic concept is still sound.

For now, though, focus on leveling Draconic Incarnation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Draconic_Incarnation); in particular, Energy Burst will be your new best friend.

First, telling me to work on draconic for now is very helpful as it give me a path to work on for a good while. second thanks for the link to that build - it seems very interesting.