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View Full Version : Rapid Fire, worth it?



Choopak
02-16-2014, 05:41 PM
Hi guys

In the mech tree there's an ability called: rapid fire, giving up to +10% double shot.
Seems awesome on paper, cost 33 AP!!! but i would like to know what you guys think?
Does it stack with the epic feat?
I have a splash, 15rogue/ 4arti/ 1ran, for max repeater dam...
Thanks!

Failedlegend
02-16-2014, 08:20 PM
It only costs 33AP if you don't want anything else in the tree...if thats true no it's isn't, on the other hand with a repeater Doubleshot is far less effective according to in-game text....no idea what it means by that though.

unbongwah
02-16-2014, 09:19 PM
IIUC, Doubleshot only applies to the first bolt in a three-bolt repeater volley; so effectively it is a % chance of firing four bolts instead of three. I haven't done any testing to see if that's the case, though.

Failedlegend
02-17-2014, 09:52 AM
IIUC, Doubleshot only applies to the first bolt in a three-bolt repeater volley; so effectively it is a % chance of firing four bolts instead of three. I haven't done any testing to see if that's the case, though.

Yeah thats my experience as well...seems kinda of a waste IMO

inspiredunease
02-17-2014, 10:32 AM
It's a marginal DPS increase at best, in fact the mechanic tree in general is not great for repeater damage (given that the xbow damage feats don't stack with the ones you have to take from the arti tree anyway), it seems to be geared more for great xbows, which I wish were worth speccing into, but just aren't. I think more points in assassin for more sneak dice etc is better.

Seikojin
02-17-2014, 10:53 AM
The big one would be if you can get it and fullisade. Because if it is on the first shot...

Choopak
02-17-2014, 12:10 PM
The big one would be if you can get it and fullisade. Because if it is on the first shot...

On my build i have both! but AP is tight so no more room for anything else, lol

Seikojin
02-17-2014, 03:26 PM
On my build i have both! but AP is tight so no more room for anything else, lol

Have you noticed any increased shots while running fullisade?

inspiredunease
02-17-2014, 04:19 PM
It should work as EF is a class boost (just haste boost for xbows really, but shorter and not as good), but it would only proc on the first arrow of each three (per attack basically) as I understand it.

ReaperAlexEU
02-17-2014, 04:39 PM
doubleshot applies on every bolt, i've had 5 bolt volleys on the training dummy. rough rule to work with is you'll get the stated % of doubleshot per volley, but behind the scenes it is using a smaller % per bolt.

so, for 10% doubleshot you get 3% per bolt, which puts you at 9% per volley. sure it's a little less than a bow, but you have the chance of getting 5 or even 6 bolts instead of just 4.

that said i have doubleshot from the primal destiny feats, i have tier 5 assassin on my mechanic because the INT based assassinate synergises so well with INT to dmg on a repeater. i am gathering other sources of doubleshot though and it is nice to see those 4 bolt volleys pop up and very nice to see the screen fill on a 5 bolt volley :)

inspiredunease
02-18-2014, 06:43 AM
Wow, I wasn't aware of that, I certainly didn't notice it when I ran up an arti/ranger/rogue hybrid just after U19, but now I think of it, maybe I only ever specced up to core 3 mechanic, and I TR'd him before he got to pick up the ED feat. What doubleshot stuff actually stacks? Does the ED feat and the enhancement stack? I'm guessing not as they're both listed as passive bonuses.

ReaperAlexEU
02-18-2014, 08:01 AM
Wow, I wasn't aware of that, I certainly didn't notice it when I ran up an arti/ranger/rogue hybrid just after U19, but now I think of it, maybe I only ever specced up to core 3 mechanic, and I TR'd him before he got to pick up the ED feat. What doubleshot stuff actually stacks? Does the ED feat and the enhancement stack? I'm guessing not as they're both listed as passive bonuses.

to be honest i have no idea what stacks. i did a bit of messing with the dummy as i thought i'd seen a 5 volley float past in a quest. i've recently picked up the 8% doublestrike bracers from army of shadow and have been wondering if they stack with the primal epic destiny feat. not done enough testing to confirm any of that but i was happy to see a 5 volley shot float past :)

melee is really good, that clearly states doublestrike chance, but ranged doesn't seem to have the same support, especially for repeaters that have a lower %

outside of EE gianthold and above i'm glad i chose tier 5 assassin over tier 5 mechanic. the mechanic tree just doesn't have that much in there to appeal to my old mechanic (though wrack construct is a fun toy, skipped the leg shot as i have pin twisted in with stay frosty). i found i wanted more from the assassin tree like the sneak attack dice and the old +INT capstone i had before the enhancement pass. now that i have the hang of mixing repeater dpswith assassinates i feel my rogue is a low more productive. sure he's no QPing monk, but a double assassinate is very satisfying and it's nice to drop casters or full HP trash mobs in one hit. i'm also loving my rad II repeater in EE's as it's solid CC that also boosts my dps with it unlocking my SA. funny how for trash a lvl12 greensteel item from years gone by is better than a brand new lvl23 item :)

inspiredunease
02-18-2014, 09:24 AM
You can get 9% on the trapsmith's crossbow, but I don't think the rest of that item's profile is worth taking over needle, or yes, even a RADII repeater (still think it's a pity there's no repeater with improved deception on), so yeah, I guess the 8% from those bracers is the max you can get as an item bonus... so, if you can stack rapid shot enhancement, the ED feat, 8% from gear, 3% from elf skill enhancement, that's 31% doubleshot without boosts (I guess with killer running you could theoretically be running around with 51% situationally), which from what you're saying is about 10% an arrow... I guess that's equivalent to a 19-20 x 2 multiplier, which people will happily spend 2 feats on to get from monk earth stance. Hmm, interesting. I'm still not sure it's worth speccing that far into it, but if I ever get round to trying the 10/6/4 rogue/ranger/arti build I keep meaning to try I might do some testing.

I still agree with you that assassin is the way to go with an int-based build anyway, regardless of whether you have good assassinate DC, I just think you get a lot more DPS from those 4d6 sneak die, the poison toggle, the ability to melee reasonably with daggers etc.

unbongwah
02-18-2014, 10:18 AM
still think it's a pity there's no repeater with improved deception on
I'd rather get it from an item like Golden Guile (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Golden_Guile), which also provides Ghostly & CHA skill bonuses.

inspiredunease
02-18-2014, 05:56 PM
Improved deception on weapon and other items stack don't they: http://ddowiki.com/page/Deception?