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View Full Version : Confused About PDK & Shadar Kai



-Avalon-
02-11-2014, 05:35 PM
I understand Morninglords worshiping Amaunator, one of the Gods of the Sun and Mornings, and Light... but Shadar Kai should never be forced into worshiping that. I understand that the SK's are 'changed' and not the normal ones, but even so, they start as rogues. We should have a God like Mask (or whatever the rogue's Deity in FR is currently) that specializes in short swords or daggers, and hiding, darkness, etc...

Likewise, the PDK's might very well worship Amaunator, but I can guarantee you that if FR was real, the Cormyrian Training would include Heavy Mace if that religion was THAT popular as to be the ONLY religion allowed for their knights. Pretty sure, though, that PDK's don't just worship that ONE God, and probably worship someone else that actually uses Long Swords/Great Swords/Bastard Swords. And side note, this would be an awesome thing to add, a God with a favored weapon of Bastard Sword, and then an Iconic Race of Dwarf (like the Sun Elf Morninglord, do one for Dwarf) and add Moradin or something with Favored Weapon Dwarven Axe.

Just boggles my mind why there are so many non-synergistic abilities that are non-synergistic just because, and often against any possible lore or logic's reason. Why would a Shadar Kai Cleric/Rogue worship a Sun-God instead of a God of Thievery and Shadows? Why would PDK's have battle clerics but then tell the very charismatic healers they have to use swords instead of what their God prefers? Just crazy...

Shorlong
02-12-2014, 12:25 AM
I understand Morninglords worshiping Amaunator, one of the Gods of the Sun and Mornings, and Light... but Shadar Kai should never be forced into worshiping that. I understand that the SK's are 'changed' and not the normal ones, but even so, they start as rogues. We should have a God like Mask (or whatever the rogue's Deity in FR is currently) that specializes in short swords or daggers, and hiding, darkness, etc...

Likewise, the PDK's might very well worship Amaunator, but I can guarantee you that if FR was real, the Cormyrian Training would include Heavy Mace if that religion was THAT popular as to be the ONLY religion allowed for their knights. Pretty sure, though, that PDK's don't just worship that ONE God, and probably worship someone else that actually uses Long Swords/Great Swords/Bastard Swords. And side note, this would be an awesome thing to add, a God with a favored weapon of Bastard Sword, and then an Iconic Race of Dwarf (like the Sun Elf Morninglord, do one for Dwarf) and add Moradin or something with Favored Weapon Dwarven Axe.

Just boggles my mind why there are so many non-synergistic abilities that are non-synergistic just because, and often against any possible lore or logic's reason. Why would a Shadar Kai Cleric/Rogue worship a Sun-God instead of a God of Thievery and Shadows? Why would PDK's have battle clerics but then tell the very charismatic healers they have to use swords instead of what their God prefers? Just crazy...

I think it's something that will probably happen, but not for awhile.

fmalfeas
02-12-2014, 01:19 AM
Most PDK, like many Faerunians, likely worship many gods. With Torm, Tempus, and the Red Knight being the highest on the list, with Aumanator coming in right after them. The ones who take up a religious calling and devote themselves to a single deity probably would follow those listed gods.

Torm - Duty, Loyalty, Protection - Major affiliation with Paladins (and imbues more of them than any other god). Lawful Good, favored weapon - Greatsword.
Tempus - War, Battle, Victory - Chaotic Neutral - Favored Weapon - either Battleaxe or Greataxe, I don't remember which.
Red Knight - War, Strategy, Tactics - Lawful Neutral - Favored Weapon - Longsword

Those are the very most likely choices that a Purple Dragon Knight would devote themselves to. Though I wouldn't be too surprised to find a few corrupt ones here and there that serve Bane.

Bane - Fear, Hatred, Tyranny - Lawful Evil - Favored Weapons (yes, two of them) Gauntlet/Morningstar.

Silken-Akira
02-12-2014, 02:52 AM
Another god I would like to see added actually her is Aureon: favoring quarterstaff. Aside from the fact that I think more god shoices should be brought in this one makes a lot of sense to me who want also to build a divine that fits the staff-wielding one and the divine/magic mixed ones.

fmalfeas
02-12-2014, 04:04 AM
Oh, and as for rogue gods, there's a few of them that are favored, though they're all pretty 'iffy'.

Mask - Chaotic Neutral (with Neutral Evil tendancies) - Deceit, Thieves, Stealth - Favored Weapon - Dagger. (However, he tends to hang out in the plane of shadow, where he either has to kiss Shar's butt, or hide from her. If he goes to the only other place that /might/ take him, the Barrens of Doom and Despair, he has to become a vassal of Bane, so he tends to loathe to do that.)

Shar - Neutral Evil - Secrets, Darkness, Mystery - I don't remember her favored weapon. However, she's also a complete Nihilist, of the sort that wants to unmake all creation. She's also the second most powerful (individually) of all the Faerunian gods, with only AO being directly more powerful than she is. Corellon Lareithian is theoretically more powerful, but largely stays away from her. Oddly enough, Bane is one of the only gods who successfully puts up serious resistance to her, and that's because her goal of total annihilation is directly opposed to his goal of total dominion. He's also the only non-racial deity that's not an overgod who rivals her in power, being just a /hair/ weaker. But commands many vassal deities, so she tries to avoid head-on collisions with him.

Cyric - Chaotic Evil - Madness, Murder, Chaos, Strife - Favored Weapon - Shortsword (As if his portfolio didn't show just how nasty he really is, the only god who likes him /at all/ is Shar. Otherwise, he's so hated that good and evil gods will cooperate to mess up his plans. And Bane has a special level of hatred for Cyric, and has issued a permanent 'kill on sight' order to all his faithful for all of Cyric's faithful.)

Bhaal - Neutral Evil - Murder - I don't think he's reclaimed much else in the way of portfolios yet. Favored Weapon - Dagger, i do believe.

Tymora - Luck, Fortune - I think she's got more, but I don't know which ones. Chaotic Neutral, I do believe. Lady Luck is probably the closest to a 'good' rogue deity out there in the Realms.

-Avalon-
02-13-2014, 04:55 PM
Torm - Duty, Loyalty, Protection - Major affiliation with Paladins (and imbues more of them than any other god). Lawful Good, favored weapon - Greatsword.
Tempus - War, Battle, Victory - Chaotic Neutral - Favored Weapon - either Battleaxe or Greataxe, I don't remember which.
Red Knight - War, Strategy, Tactics - Lawful Neutral - Favored Weapon - Longsword


So, 2 of the 3 most logical options for a PDK to worship, use the Cormyrian Training weapons... yes?


Mask - Favored Weapon - Dagger.

Tymora

Tymora - Favored Weapon - Spinning/Flipping Coin (Shuriken) Now tell me this does not fit well with the way the update changed our enhancements??

What we need is an update that gives Cleric/Paladin/FVS love, give us Deities!! I understand there are not many in the Eberron setting (but could be expanded, like the Sovereign Host is not just ONE god, but many, including Aureon (FW- Quarterstaff)), but you cannot do Forgotten Realms and not have more than ONE deity?!? Pure insanity. We need Torm, Tyr, Red Knight, Mask, Tymora, Moradin, Clangeddin, and Kelemvor (bastard sword)

Would be a lot of deities, but if they have 4 updates a year, they could do small fixes and stuff for everyone, include some new dungeons/quests, and give a major bump to a specific 'sphere' of classes. Have a Primal Update, a Martial Update, an Arcane Update, and a Divine Update (where they could focus on giving us more stuff for each sphere, like a ton of deities for the Divine Update)...

I see cleric as being underwhelming right now, because it is being almost literally strangled by the game content. Clerics revolve around having deities. Analogy: The way we have clerics/divines right now, would be like having fighters and only SIX weapons... Imagine trying to build a toon if you were told you could only use one of 6 weapons. Now imagine that your weapon choice depended on race entirely. The biggest option you'd have is maybe 2 weapons for your toon due to picking elf, or halfling. Sure, you could come up with builds, and some might be awesome, but after a few months, all the potential builds would be made, and there would be nothing new coming out of it, just resign yourself to using whichever one you ended up with, and the weapon choice then becomes basically something that you ignore.

You may even start splashing classes that focus on weapons just for other benefits that have nothing to do with weapons. But, why do we have people who play a lot of levels of fighter, or ranger, or monk... because we have a TON of weapons to choose from. More often than not, cleric is a class people either splash for various reasons and don't care about deity at all, or they make an almost pure cleric who uses scepters or staves for the devotion/lore aspects because they went pure caster and thus ignore deity choice almost entirely again...

Come on, Turbine... this is a bit ridiculous... we can say Lore is the reason, but you mean to tell me in all the years of the war between warforged and non-WF, that none of the WF have crossed over and started doing more non-WF stuff, like worshiping Sovereign Host or Silver Flame?? We need a wider array of options for deity and less strangle holding on racial choice as well...

fmalfeas
02-13-2014, 07:38 PM
Don't forget Corellon Larethian, Sehanine Moonbow, Azuth, Garl Glittergold, Yondala, Chauntea, Silvanus.

And for those AAs who really want to hang out in MoTU content, there's Shevurash, the Black Archer. He used to be an elven archer, during the war when the Drow first came to be, and Corellon's wife, Arushnee, betrayed them all and became Lolth. He swore to never laugh, smile, sing, or dance again until every single drow and all their gods, were slain. The power of his determination and hatred got him elevated to divinity, and his followers take the same oath.

Obviously, his favored weapon is Longbow.

And for Clonks, there's Ilmater, the Crying God. Favored Weapon - Unarmed. He's all about relieving the pain and suffering of others, even if it means taking that suffering upon yourself instead of them. His most frequent form of divine intervention is to change an avatar to look like someone being tortured or killed painfully, and bodyswap the avatar for them. (Which is what earned him the nickname amongst the Banites of 'The Stupid God'.)

-Avalon-
02-13-2014, 10:03 PM
And for those AAs who really want to hang out in MoTU content, there's Shevurash, the Black Archer. He used to be an elven archer, during the war when the Drow first came to be, and Corellon's wife, Arushnee, betrayed them all and became Lolth. He swore to never laugh, smile, sing, or dance again until every single drow and all their gods, were slain. The power of his determination and hatred got him elevated to divinity, and his followers take the same oath.

That would actually be a great update to have! Add in Corellon, Shevurash, and a few others, but base the new quests of that update around Corellon and Shevurash getting involved since Lloth is messing with Eveningstar...

Elucidus
02-28-2014, 11:42 AM
Eilistraee could be a good addition for those FR Drow out there, might even work a bit for Shader Kai. she is about redemption as i recall, though mostly for drow. favored weapon is bastard sword though.

Tymora is chaoric good, but would be a great addition. beshaba i believe is the god of bad luck.

Mystra for those cleric mage mixes. i have seen more of those lately. neutral good, god of magic

Azuth is the god of spells with quarter staff.

Mielikki god of forests, interesting thing about her is she allows druids to use armor like a ranger. changing their restriction.


Though the fact that it is Amaunator and not Lathander tells me they might bevfollowing closer to 4E lore which is sad, as that cuts out a lot of the options. Though Amaunator and Lathander were said to be the same deity...

fmalfeas
02-28-2014, 04:25 PM
I'm not annoyed at all about the Aumanator thing. In the last few books of 3.5 realms, it talked about that in depth.

When Netheril fell, Aumanator felt that he had made some mistakes. His utter focus on Law (as the harsh noonday sun) had let his followers stray into forms of depravity that he abhorred. The final straw was when one full city turned to Shar, and when the only Arcanist-King skilled and potent enough to save his citizens as the city fell turned himself into a lich, and /all of his citizens/ into various other forms of undead servants. (This is Larloch, btw, who may be the most powerful non-deity in all of Toril. Fortunately, like a proper lich, all he really wants to do is hang out and make new spells and magic items. His former citizens are employed as guards to keep people away from him. If someone gets past them and bothers him, he usually doesn't even kill them. Instead, he Geases them to go fetch him rare spell components or steal magic items.)

So, Aumanator decided it was time, rather than trying to change the nature of mortals, to change the nature of himself, and grow as an individual. So like the sun he represents, he set with Netheril, and rose again as Lathander, the Dawn Sun. With the return of the City of Shade, however, it was time to throw off the mask. Not only did he start granting power to Sunlords again (who had long kept the rites of Aumanator going) but he began to prepare to rise further. When Shar and Cyric killed Mystra (how is beyond me, since they attacked her in Dweomerhold, where she should be effectively invincible, /and/ had serious backup in the form of Azuth and Velsharoon) the last straw landed on that poor camel's back. Dawn gave way to the Noonday Sun again. But now Aumanator was tempered by his time as Lathander. He saw more in the world than just the harsh, unyielding light. And he set himself once more as Shar's archnemesis. Selune may feel more strongly about her, and be able to move in Shar's time of power, but Aumanator is uniquely suited to burning away her shadows, and revealing her secrets.

It also talked about Bhaal's return, and the series of discoveries of Imaskari ruins that had the gods worried. And then...4e...*sigh*

Elucidus
03-01-2014, 12:26 PM
I'm not annoyed at all about the Aumanator thing. In the last few books of 3.5 realms, it talked about that in depth.

When Netheril fell, Aumanator felt that he had made some mistakes. His utter focus on Law (as the harsh noonday sun) had let his followers stray into forms of depravity that he abhorred. The final straw was when one full city turned to Shar, and when the only Arcanist-King skilled and potent enough to save his citizens as the city fell turned himself into a lich, and /all of his citizens/ into various other forms of undead servants. (This is Larloch, btw, who may be the most powerful non-deity in all of Toril. Fortunately, like a proper lich, all he really wants to do is hang out and make new spells and magic items. His former citizens are employed as guards to keep people away from him. If someone gets past them and bothers him, he usually doesn't even kill them. Instead, he Geases them to go fetch him rare spell components or steal magic items.)

So, Aumanator decided it was time, rather than trying to change the nature of mortals, to change the nature of himself, and grow as an individual. So like the sun he represents, he set with Netheril, and rose again as Lathander, the Dawn Sun. With the return of the City of Shade, however, it was time to throw off the mask. Not only did he start granting power to Sunlords again (who had long kept the rites of Aumanator going) but he began to prepare to rise further. When Shar and Cyric killed Mystra (how is beyond me, since they attacked her in Dweomerhold, where she should be effectively invincible, /and/ had serious backup in the form of Azuth and Velsharoon) the last straw landed on that poor camel's back. Dawn gave way to the Noonday Sun again. But now Aumanator was tempered by his time as Lathander. He saw more in the world than just the harsh, unyielding light. And he set himself once more as Shar's archnemesis. Selune may feel more strongly about her, and be able to move in Shar's time of power, but Aumanator is uniquely suited to burning away her shadows, and revealing her secrets.

It also talked about Bhaal's return, and the series of discoveries of Imaskari ruins that had the gods worried. And then...4e...*sigh*


I had a feeling something like that was going to happen. I am fine with that part, the part about Mystra I thought was dumb, I had read about her death before, but could not wrap my head around how exactly it happened. and I agree with your very last statement wholeheartedly.

Failedlegend
03-02-2014, 02:35 AM
I fail to see why deities are limited at all...like sure the Lord of Blades is primarily worshipped by Warforged but that doesn't mean a Halfling can't worship him too.

Also I fail to see why we can only worsip the "soveirgn host" instead of its various dieties...like it can't be much coding to create new cleric dieties just copy and past the code a bunch of times and change the weapon and diety name..done.

Elucidus
03-02-2014, 03:27 PM
I fail to see why deities are limited at all...like sure the Lord of Blades is primarily worshipped by Warforged but that doesn't mean a Halfling can't worship him too.

Also I fail to see why we can only worsip the "soveirgn host" instead of its various dieties...like it can't be much coding to create new cleric dieties just copy and past the code a bunch of times and change the weapon and diety name..done.

There is a bit more to it, you have cleric/paladin/favored soul abilities directly tied to a deity. Sure it isn't a major adjustment, but those abilities and at will powers need to be a little balanced and they also don't want to wash out the deities with a bunch of them being nearly identical . that said they need to add more than we have now. And where are domains...now that would be awesome.