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shadowowl
02-10-2014, 04:29 PM
how high can i get prr with fvs18 2 paly? not really looking at being a 'tank' per say but looking to be as unkillable as possible in a healer/divine caster role.
currently at about 81 prr at level 23 seems decent enough for what i'm running
get my prr from shield (have feats shield mastery, tower shield and shield deflection) will get the last shield feat when I can no room yet as I don't want to give up toughness epic toughness empower maximize or quicken.
running in angel ED with twists burst, shield prowess and legendary shield mastery
my ac is currently 90 using embrace of the spider queen heavy armor as pdk set and a bastian

so looking at later how to get it as high as I can my elemental resists seem to be good for most things so more looking for prr

armor suggestions for higher level? maybe shield suggestion? or other ways to get it higher?

Raoull
02-10-2014, 04:48 PM
My FvS is specced out this way. I was wearing heavy armor, using a tower shield with both feats, etc. The problem is that the heavy armors and tower shields have far too low of a dodge cap.

Feat wise, heavy armor gives you the most PRR on a per feat basis. But I'm not sure if there are any heavy armors with good dodge caps. I gave up my Embrace the spider queen (max dodge ONE) for a Terrorweb Chiten Breastplate (max dodge 10), and grabbed a random dodge item. The dodge easily made up for the lost PRR.

The shield feats are pretty similar. Tower shields are the best PRR, but again, kill your dodge, which isn't worth it for 5 PRR. A large shield gives you +10 PRR with these feats and another +15 with a Tier 2 twist. (Don't bother with the Shield Prowess twist. While you need it in your tree to take Shield Mastery, you can just twist straight to it.)

A high max dodge medium armor and a medium shield is probably the sweet spot for defense for your build. It will take a 2 feat and 1 twist investment. (Also remember to keep Divine Power running, as that will boost your BAB and thus your PRR.)

Also, for PRR, be sure to complete the Stormhorns chain. Even the heroic version offers a ring with +24 PRR, far and away the best item PRR bonus.


Note: Shield deflection doesn't do anything unless you're blocking. I'm not sure how often you block.....

shadowowl
02-10-2014, 05:12 PM
My FvS is specced out this way. I was wearing heavy armor, using a tower shield with both feats, etc. The problem is that the heavy armors and tower shields have far too low of a dodge cap.

Feat wise, heavy armor gives you the most PRR on a per feat basis. But I'm not sure if there are any heavy armors with good dodge caps. I gave up my Embrace the spider queen (max dodge ONE) for a Terrorweb Chiten Breastplate (max dodge 10), and grabbed a random dodge item. The dodge easily made up for the lost PRR.

The shield feats are pretty similar. Tower shields are the best PRR, but again, kill your dodge, which isn't worth it for 5 PRR. A large shield gives you +10 PRR with these feats and another +15 with a Tier 2 twist. (Don't bother with the Shield Prowess twist. While you need it in your tree to take Shield Mastery, you can just twist straight to it.)

A high max dodge medium armor and a medium shield is probably the sweet spot for defense for your build. It will take a 2 feat and 1 twist investment. (Also remember to keep Divine Power running, as that will boost your BAB and thus your PRR.)

Also, for PRR, be sure to complete the Stormhorns chain. Even the heroic version offers a ring with +24 PRR, far and away the best item PRR bonus.


Note: Shield deflection doesn't do anything unless you're blocking. I'm not sure how often you block.....

ya i know it's just for blocking am still debating on that last time i played fvs i did block a fair amount nealry always actually i would just run into the middle of the fight and block with mass heals though this was over a year ago that I last played fvs so it may change this time around. my dodge even without armor is 0% so I'm guessing that unless i get some item with dodge it's not even worth it till higher level.
the shield defelction really seems appealing though given my high resists already to elements while blocking would make me nearly invinsible too bad I can't generate threat or would be a good tank.
but you are saying the 9-10% i can get from an item is worth dropping the prr?
will look into that

Matuse
02-11-2014, 07:11 AM
Right now you have an 81, going to medium armor and a large shield will give you about 9 more points of dodge capability. Let's assume that you go down to 70 PRR with the exchange.

81 PRR = 35.9% damage reduction
70 PRR = 32.8% damage reduction

So you're losing about 3%. In exchange, you're outright avoiding 10% of incoming damage.

To completely offset the boost from dodge, you would need to lose 30 points of PRR.

Raoull
02-11-2014, 07:26 AM
At lvl 20 max PRR with heavy armor & tower shield is:

26 heavy armor (divine power running)
15 improved shield mastery
10 legendary shield mastery twist
24 guardian's ring (what goes up end reward)
10 warpriest
85 PRR

With medium armor and a large shield, you have

19 medium armor (dp)
10 ism
10 lsm
24 ring
10 warpriest
73 PRR

Looking at the wiki page on PRR (http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR)...
85 PRR will block about 37.3% of incoming physical damage
73 PRR will block about 33.8% of incoming damage.


Adding a 6% dodge item will bring the 73 PRR one up to blocking 37.8% of physical damage.

The dodge is really slightly superior, as a dodge attack also means no special effects hit. But all in all, it is pretty close.

As PRR goes up though, this gap widens even with the same amount of dodge due to how PRR works. But with the right medium armors, you can improve your dodge as well.

Medium armors have some other benefits too. Lower Arcane spell failure if you UMD arcane scrolls. And less penalties on jump and balance.

It isn't a huge difference, but yes, the 9-10% you can get from an item is enough to make it come out ahead.

(I had made a mistake in my original reasoning. I run a FvS20 and thus needed to spend a feat on heavy armor, but the pal splash means heavy armor is free.)

unbongwah
02-11-2014, 07:30 AM
LSM goes to 15 PRR, not 10; so add +5 PRR to both builds. EDIT: at this pt, I would only take ISM+LSM if you plan to melee as well; the PRR alone doesn't justify the feat cost, IMHO, but PRR+doublestrike do.

Wipey
02-11-2014, 07:48 AM
10 dodge, Ghostly, perma blur item or WP blur thingie and few displace clickies and some 50 - 60 prr is much better than super high prr.
Feats and twists for some small % mitigation is not worth it.

shadowowl
02-11-2014, 11:32 AM
10 dodge, Ghostly, perma blur item or WP blur thingie and few displace clickies and some 50 - 60 prr is much better than super high prr.
Feats and twists for some small % mitigation is not worth it.

I get perma blur from warpriest so no item required. have ghostly and have decided to drop to medium armor as suggested the terror cit armor will give 10% max dodge also I picked up a daggertooth belt which should raise that more. I'm still in heavy armor atm with tower shield as the large shield I got is ml 24. so when I hit 24 probably later tonight will switch to medium with large shield though my dodge will still be very low I think 3% till I can get get a dodge item or level up to 26 and use one I have. I think with the dagger tooth belt it will allow for a higher dodge % at least on the armor not sure what my shield max dodge will be though picked up a bulwark of the storms fist eh on the ah it seemed to be the best offered at a reasonable price. I'm reasonably sure I can hit a 13-14% dodge with this set up if I'm looking at it right?
think my prr will go down to about 71 as mentioned maybe 73 not sure exactly when all other gear factored in.
also does anyone know if the sapphire of PRR stacks with sheltering from the shield or an item? if it does I could stick one of those into the shield or belt.

Stoner81
02-11-2014, 11:58 AM
also does anyone know if the sapphire of PRR stacks with sheltering from the shield or an item?

No it doesn't.

Stoner81.

unbongwah
02-11-2014, 01:08 PM
also does anyone know if the sapphire of PRR stacks with sheltering from the shield or an item?
http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR

Sheltering items and PRR Sapphires are both enhancement bonuses; so only the highest applies.

Jeromio
02-21-2014, 08:03 AM
how high can i get prr with fvs18 2 paly? not really looking at being a 'tank' per say but looking to be as unkillable as possible in a healer/divine caster role.
currently at about 81 prr at level 23 seems decent enough for what i'm running
get my prr from shield (have feats shield mastery, tower shield and shield deflection) will get the last shield feat when I can no room yet as I don't want to give up toughness epic toughness empower maximize or quicken.
running in angel ED with twists burst, shield prowess and legendary shield mastery
my ac is currently 90 using embrace of the spider queen heavy armor as pdk set and a bastian

so looking at later how to get it as high as I can my elemental resists seem to be good for most things so more looking for prr

armor suggestions for higher level? maybe shield suggestion? or other ways to get it higher?

An option to consider:
Drop the shield feats and replace the 2 pally levels with monk.
Pick up the three monk stance feats.

You'd get a bit worse on your saves, no heavy armor and your AC will be even less useful. However, you'd get evasion, 2 additional feats, possibility for 25% dodge and just as good PRR or maybe even better. Also, you'd get +4 con from mountain stance (or +4 wis if you don't need to be in mountain stance).

Max possible PRR (without past lives):
Ultimate mountain stance - 15
Twist in Standing with stone from Gmof - 15
Ironskin - 15
Wall of Steel - 10
Twist in Damage Reduction from Fotw - 6
Use the Stormhorns ring - 24
Epic Damage Reduction - 10
Planar Conflux - 15

Total PRR: 110 ~ 43.48% less damage

If you really want actual max PRR, you've got to take a bunch of epic and iconic past lives, that can give another +36 PRR... although that will only mean an additional 6% damage mitigation.