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Sebastrd
02-05-2014, 05:05 PM
I could use some help figuring out just which junk is worth hanging on to for a character that will eventually hit triple completionist. My goal is to recycle as much gear as possible to minimize bank/mule space. In this thread, I'm focusing on THF. Assuming the following:



Improved Crit will be taken.
Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, etc. will be taken.
Emphasis will be on Greataxes, utility blunt weapons, in that order (i.e., no Greatswords, etc. unless that choice would clearly be better than any other alternative at that level)
Any greensteel weapon is craftable


What is the best THF weapon at each level, from 1-30?



?
+2 Greatsword, Nicked Greatsword, Dual Muckbane
?
Carnifex, +1 Keen Greatsword of Lacerating, Antique Greataxe, Hellstroke Greataxe
?
Holy Silver Maul of Greater Undead Bane, Dual Muck's Doom
?
+1 Flaming Adamantine Greataxe of Pure Good (Colorless), Phase Hammer
?
Sword of Shadows, +2 Holy Greatsword of Pure Good (Tiny)
?
Lit II Greataxe, Min II Greataxe, Pos III Maul, +1 Acid Falchion of Smiting
?
Cloudburst (Upgraded), +1 Holy Burst Breatclub of Greater Construct Bane
?
+2 Anarchic Burst Maul of Greater Lawful Outsider Bane, +4 Vorpal Greatsword, Fury of the Flame
?
Terror (upgraded), +2 Solar II Greataxe of Disruption
?
Epic Antique Greataxe, (eSoS), Epic Ratkiller
?
?
Cleaver (upgraded), (eSoS)
?
+6 Impellant Greataxe of Disruption
?
?
?
?
?


I'll edit this post as the discussion develops, and I'll enter some placeholders based on gear I've already acquired.

Which weapons clearly outshine all other options at their level?
At which levels are utility weapons such as smiters, disruptors, paralyzers viable or necessary?
Are certain enchantments like vorpal, Wounding of Puncturing, etc. ever viable?

Thanks in advance to any participants :)

Note: Red weapons are on the chopping block.

Drwaz99
02-05-2014, 05:21 PM
?
Dual Muckbane
?
Carnifex
?
Dual Muck's Doom
?
?
?
?
?
Lit II Greataxe, Min II Greataxe
?
?

?
?
?
?
Epic Antique Greataxe or Epic Sword of Shadows
?
?
?
Cleaver
?
?
?

?
?




Pretty much it. SOS if you can ever get all the parts is the only thing you will need from 20+. Sticking with GA's, Cleaver is much better than the Hunter Slayer. IMO Slayer is a POS.

But for all my lives, I did exactly what you did Carniflex -> GS -> eATGA -> Cleaver (replaced with SOS when I finally got all the parts). You might have a random ghostbane for necro 4 (or spectral gloves or ethereal bracers) but you have a majoirty of it already. :)

madmaxhunter
02-05-2014, 05:33 PM
I like Maelstrom. It's ml 8 but I use it on occasion well past 8. Anarchic works well against The Inevitable and if you slot ice damage augments in the slots it's a decent cold weapon.

DanteEnFuego
02-05-2014, 05:43 PM
Icy burst acid of bleed with MC for low levels. Consider some Vault of the Arti great axes.

triple pos quarter staff for multiple lives/classes.

I keep one eAGA slotted for 20 and another for 28.

Sebastrd
02-05-2014, 11:02 PM
Pretty much it. SOS if you can ever get all the parts is the only thing you will need from 20+. Sticking with GA's, Cleaver is much better than the Hunter Slayer. IMO Slayer is a POS.

But for all my lives, I did exactly what you did Carniflex -> GS -> eATGA -> Cleaver (replaced with SOS when I finally got all the parts). You might have a random ghostbane for necro 4 (or spectral gloves or ethereal bracers) but you have a majoirty of it already. :)

At first glance I thought the same thing about the Hunter's Slayer. But after someone pointed it out, I went back and took a second look.

Slayer is +8, 3.5(2d6), 17-20/x2
Cleaver is (maxed) +8, 2.5(2d8), 20/x3

Against their intended foes the bane and phlebotomizing are a wash. So, are limb chopper, improved cursespewing, a red slot, and doublestrike 6% better than silver, 2 slots, and a better damage profile? Considering the difficulty of maxing a Cleaver versus farming a Slayer (which I already have), the Slayer may not be that bad. I do think it ought to be a lot better for a lvl 26 weapon, but I suspect it suffers from being f2p loot.

Sebastrd
02-05-2014, 11:07 PM
I went ahead and updated the OP, but I have a couple of questions.

Assuming one already has an eAGA, is it worth crafting a triple earth Alchemical Greataxe or any of the epic Cannith challenge weapons?

Are the Cannith challenge axes best at any level?

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 09:40 AM
I like Maelstrom. It's ml 8 but I use it on occasion well past 8. Anarchic works well against The Inevitable and if you slot ice damage augments in the slots it's a decent cold weapon.

Since the inevitable in VoN3 is probably the main use of this weapon, would a rand gen anarchic adamantine be better? Or is Maelstrom objectively better than Carnifex?

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 09:42 AM
Icy burst acid of bleed with MC for low levels.

I've also heard that the best low level weapon is a Keen Falchion of Bleeding or Vampirism. What are your thoughts?

Drwaz99
02-06-2014, 11:27 AM
At first glance I thought the same thing about the Hunter's Slayer. But after someone pointed it out, I went back and took a second look.

Slayer is +8, 3.5(2d6), 17-20/x2
Cleaver is (maxed) +8, 2.5(2d8), 20/x3

Against their intended foes the bane and phlebotomizing are a wash. So, are limb chopper, improved cursespewing, a red slot, and doublestrike 6% better than silver, 2 slots, and a better damage profile? Considering the difficulty of maxing a Cleaver versus farming a Slayer (which I already have), the Slayer may not be that bad. I do think it ought to be a lot better for a lvl 26 weapon, but I suspect it suffers from being f2p loot.

With keen already on it, HS doesn't work with IC:Slash. Cleaver becomes 19-20x3.

Improved cursespewing will help land tactical feats and do extra damage (2d6 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds, refreshed on subsequent vorpals) on those super high HP mobs/bosses in Wheloon and SH's.

Also don't forget that the planar focus set can pull the Cleaver damage profile even a bit higher (+4 artifact to attack and damage) and 15 artifact PRR. Or the other conflux effects if you choose them.

But none of that take into the account the grind you willing to do. I didn't know from the OP you were hesitant to upgrade the Cleaver. If you can get the comms and are willing to grind them out, Cleaver is much better and more versatile across a more diverse group of mobs. And yes, the HS will be slightly better on vampires and zombies.

I still think (while sticking to you criteria listed) GA of Lacerating -> Carniflex -> (base SoS if you have it) GS GA and 3xPos Maul -> eAGA (or eSoS) -> Cleaver and your set. Use the HS until you fully upgrade a Cleaver, but personally I wouldn't settle with the HS.

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 01:40 PM
With keen already on it, HS doesn't work with IC:Slash. Cleaver becomes 19-20x3.

Improved cursespewing will help land tactical feats and do extra damage (2d6 every 2 seconds for 12 seconds, refreshed on subsequent vorpals) on those super high HP mobs/bosses in Wheloon and SH's.

Also don't forget that the planar focus set can pull the Cleaver damage profile even a bit higher (+4 artifact to attack and damage) and 15 artifact PRR. Or the other conflux effects if you choose them.

But none of that take into the account the grind you willing to do. I didn't know from the OP you were hesitant to upgrade the Cleaver. If you can get the comms and are willing to grind them out, Cleaver is much better and more versatile across a more diverse group of mobs. And yes, the HS will be slightly better on vampires and zombies.

Sounds good. I have druid, cleric, and bard left to reach single completionist, so I doubt I'll be using GAs anytime soon. I fully plan to upgrade a Cleaver eventually, but I just finished Twilight (on my FvS life) and still have Pinion potentially ahead of Cleaver. I also have Needler and Sireth to fit in somewhere.


I still think (while sticking to you criteria listed) GA of Lacerating -> Carniflex -> (base SoS if you have it) GS GA and 3xPos Maul -> eAGA (or eSoS) -> Cleaver and your set. Use the HS until you fully upgrade a Cleaver, but personally I wouldn't settle with the HS.

Looks good. I do have the base SoS (at least until the stars align and I get the parts to upgrade). Is that better overall than GS? If I can save myself having to craft a GS, I'm all for it.

I'm thinking I'll start hitting the heavy undead quests around level 7 or 8 when I get to Delera's and the f2p level 6's. So a crafted Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Undead Bane at 6 and a Phase Hammer for ghosts at 8 should suffice until 12.

That leaves the matter of Smiting and Banishing weapons. I suppose I could craft an Inevitable beater, but is his DR worth the effort? Will a loot gen banisher perform appreciably better than GS in the Vale and Amrath?

Mahalko128
02-06-2014, 02:06 PM
My question is, what would happen to this game if the eSoS was ever nerfed?

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 02:11 PM
My question is, what would happen to this game if the eSoS was ever nerfed?

It would be as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced?

That or a lot of farewell(ragequit) threads.

Mahalko128
02-06-2014, 02:30 PM
It would be as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced?

That or a lot of farewell(ragequit) threads.

If you ask me that's exactly what they need to do then. It's an ml 20 item, but has the potential power of an ml 24 or even 28 item. People talking about the new crafting system coming out are still using the eSoS for comparison. I think a small nerf to put the eSoS on the same power scale as other level 20-22 ml items is exactly what this game needs to put their loot tables back in order.

Drwaz99
02-06-2014, 02:38 PM
My question is, what would happen to this game if the eSoS was ever nerfed?

Probably the same as if they changed how Torc's worked. eSoS's are one of only a few items that literally take YEARS to farm out, if you are lucky. It would be a huge F-U to long term players. It would be bad.



Looks good. I do have the base SoS (at least until the stars align and I get the parts to upgrade). Is that better overall than GS? If I can save myself having to craft a GS, I'm all for it.

I'm thinking I'll start hitting the heavy undead quests around level 7 or 8 when I get to Delera's and the f2p level 6's. So a crafted Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Undead Bane at 6 and a Phase Hammer for ghosts at 8 should suffice until 12.

That leaves the matter of Smiting and Banishing weapons. I suppose I could craft an Inevitable beater, but is his DR worth the effort? Will a loot gen banisher perform appreciably better than GS in the Vale and Amrath?

I always ran with SoS in heroic for general questing all the way to cap. Even in cases where there was slight DR I had to break thru. It's high base damage, 17-20 (15-20 with IC)x3 crit profile is simply the best out there. I broke out the Min2 for Elite Shrouds and that's about it.

Your H-S of GUB maul is really good and will work great in Deleras and other undead heavy quests. Smiting and Banishers, I was never a fan of carrying one. Things were usually dead too fast for it to matter. I would suggest just maybe picking a cheap random gen one and messing around with it.

Only the Inevitable in Elite Von3 might give you a bit of problems but a random Anarchic weapon or Maelstrom will make it easy. But that's just one fight.

Overall I think you have a good handle on what to bring along! :)


If you ask me that's exactly what they need to do then. It's an ml 20 item, but has the potential power of an ml 24 or even 28 item. People talking about the new crafting system coming out are still using the eSoS for comparison. I think a small nerf to put the eSoS on the same power scale as other level 20-22 ml items is exactly what this game needs to put their loot tables back in order.

Thinking that nerfing one weapon, even if OP'ed to the extent people say the SOS is, will be the solution to the random gen loot problem would be irresponsible thinking on the devs part. It one of the few old school epic items that is still very sought after and people think the grind is worth it. To put it at the same level as the eAGA roughly but 100x harder to acquire would simply just kill what has been the ultimate weapon in the game for years. The fact that so many people complain that it is so hard to acquire makes it's power relevant. Nerfing it would cause more issues than people realize. It would be stupid.

Sebastrd
02-17-2014, 10:58 PM
Another thought occurred to me. Is upgraded Cloudburst a) better than SoS for heroics and b) comparable to Lit II Greensteel overall?

Xahtep
03-10-2014, 04:15 PM
Another thought occurred to me. Is upgraded Cloudburst a) better than SoS for heroics and b) comparable to Lit II Greensteel overall?

A) i really dont know. B) Sirgog posted the math time ago and the upgraded Cloudburst is better than a Lit 2, the cloudburst efect going for 100 sonic and 70 electric (or something like that) on vorpal is nice and pulls ahead if you fight a group of mobs.

Now if you have the math showing that a lit 2 is better than a base sos ( wich is probably the case) then yes, cloudburst is the way to go.

Sebastrd
03-10-2014, 04:41 PM
A) i really dont know. B) Sirgog posted the math time ago and the upgraded Cloudburst is better than a Lit 2, the cloudburst efect going for 100 sonic and 70 electric (or something like that) on vorpal is nice and pulls ahead if you fight a group of mobs.

Now if you have the math showing that a lit 2 is better than a base sos ( wich is probably the case) then yes, cloudburst is the way to go.

That's pretty much what I figured. Since I have a base SoS and a Cloudburst, I think I'll skip the GS axes just to save space.

the_one_dwarfforged
04-02-2014, 10:01 AM
1-3: falchions
4-9: carnifex
10-19: sos, min2 gs
20: esos

of the weapons i actually end up using on any given life i have a greater variety of mauls, all either named or random gen

baii
04-02-2014, 03:08 PM
lvl1 : +5 holy burst greatsword (If you ever have pally pl. ) or +3 icyburst( icy festival) falchion

usually those until a SOS.

Sebastrd
04-18-2014, 06:27 PM
PSA, since I'm rereading this thread in preparation for my upcoming bard life:

Don't cheap out and skip making a GS axe if you're planning a dwarf TYWA build. I ended up using Carnifex all the way until 16 when I lucked out and nabbed an elite GA of the Chained Soldier on my first try in elite Tor, because all of the best mid-level two-handers are greatswords. TMYK

Zoda
04-18-2014, 11:59 PM
My old version of Maelstrom is ML 2, has 1.5W,+1 ench bonus, frost and anarchic. Probably not that easy to come by one nowdays. Also not sure if it is that good for tripple completionists.