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View Full Version : Returning player, have Monk questions.



Requimatic
01-29-2014, 06:17 PM
Finally back from a very long break. I'm about to unlock the Monk class via TP so I can finally play my Monk again, but I have some questions. Keep in mind, when I took my "break" it was before the first expansion. Before the DT lottery change, even.

My questions are the following:

1. I believe my Monk was going to be pure 20. Are pure 20 builds viable in regards to Damage/Survivability/Self-sufficiency, or would at least a splash in Fighter be better in any (or all) of those regards? What about another splash? Those three aspects are what I'm most concerned about with my Monk. One of the things I liked about Monks was that they seemed to just be able to last longer, where other classes (Fighter/Barbarian, at the time) would need more than just a cleric hireling to solo well.

2. Assuming multi-classing is now king for Monks, what build(s) are optimal for: damage/survivability/self-sufficiency?

3. My Monk is also Half-Orc. I was going to be focused purely on damage at the time, and believe I'd chosen the Dark-side enhancements. Is Half-Orc still a viable choice race-wise, or is something like Human (ability score enhancements, GH clicky, etc.) a better choice?

Whew, sitting here thinking of all of this reminds me of how complicated Monks could be back in the day. Hard to build, fun and very rewarding to play.

Anyway, thanks in advance.. hopefully my questions aren't too terribly vague.

Rhysem
01-29-2014, 07:26 PM
I have a pure 20 monk. Pure isn't the end all be all anymore. Next life he'll probably go splashed. Depending on your build you may not have the capstone (because, frankly, they suck, and the wasted picks you take to get them suck). If you don't have the capstone, there's no reason to go pure. It'd help QP DC, but so far the devs seem intent on nerfing QP into uselessness but hitting the DC so hard you'll use it nowhere but eVON3 (and not there since they nerfed eVON3 xp). I did largely quit running a cleric healer because I didn't need it, but I was also running half-elf with cleric dilly, so at 10 I could whip my own heal scrolls. YMMV.

Multiclassing is king for everyone because capstones are kinda lame -- and on everybody not a monk, would you like a lame overpriced capstone ... or evasion and umd or evasion and two feats? Kinda a no brainer. I'd do at least 12 monk. Abundant step is still pretty good and it isn't like the monk class isn't solid past 6. 18/2ftr is reasonable (extra feats). There's a lot of 12/6/2 mixes that work. Depends what you want to do. You could probably even swing a 12/8 or 12/7/1 split where you pick up cleric or favored soul and mix in some buffing and warpriest.

Hork is fine. Power attack, TWF tree, stunning fist, maybe dodge/mobility/spring attack if you like and you've got a solid leveling build. I'd go light side, dark got the nerfbat, plus light makes for easier leveling. You'll still want ~11 pts in the ninja spy for shadow fade. Buy up orc racial enough to get the power attack bonuses. Then go grab some stuff in Shintao. Alternatly as a hork, you could try doing thf and going stick builds. If you do that you'll still splash some in shintao (earth stance bonus) and then go up the thf in racial and qstaff in shintao. I have a hork at 13 who is rogue 9 monk 3 druid 1 heading to a 13/6/1 split eventually and his damage is BRUTAL. Unfortunately his survivability is awful, but that has more to do with his gear being junk than anything wrong with the build. The bad thing about stick is it make stunning fist awkward to use.

Requimatic
01-29-2014, 07:40 PM
I have a pure 20 monk. Pure isn't the end all be all anymore. Next life he'll probably go splashed. Depending on your build you may not have the capstone (because, frankly, they suck, and the wasted picks you take to get them suck). If you don't have the capstone, there's no reason to go pure. It'd help QP DC, but so far the devs seem intent on nerfing QP into uselessness but hitting the DC so hard you'll use it nowhere but eVON3 (and not there since they nerfed eVON3 xp). I did largely quit running a cleric healer because I didn't need it, but I was also running half-elf with cleric dilly, so at 10 I could whip my own heal scrolls. YMMV.

Multiclassing is king for everyone because capstones are kinda lame -- and on everybody not a monk, would you like a lame overpriced capstone ... or evasion and umd or evasion and two feats? Kinda a no brainer. I'd do at least 12 monk. Abundant step is still pretty good and it isn't like the monk class isn't solid past 6. 18/2ftr is reasonable (extra feats). There's a lot of 12/6/2 mixes that work. Depends what you want to do. You could probably even swing a 12/8 or 12/7/1 split where you pick up cleric or favored soul and mix in some buffing and warpriest.

Hork is fine. Power attack, TWF tree, stunning fist, maybe dodge/mobility/spring attack if you like and you've got a solid leveling build. I'd go light side, dark got the nerfbat, plus light makes for easier leveling. You'll still want ~11 pts in the ninja spy for shadow fade. Buy up orc racial enough to get the power attack bonuses. Then go grab some stuff in Shintao. Alternatly as a hork, you could try doing thf and going stick builds. If you do that you'll still splash some in shintao (earth stance bonus) and then go up the thf in racial and qstaff in shintao. I have a hork at 13 who is rogue 9 monk 3 druid 1 heading to a 13/6/1 split eventually and his damage is BRUTAL. Unfortunately his survivability is awful, but that has more to do with his gear being junk than anything wrong with the build. The bad thing about stick is it make stunning fist awkward to use.

Thanks for the reply! So Dark side got the nerfbat, eh? I was just looking over my Monk's feats/etc. and noticed the very.. awkward DC on Quivering Palm. It doesn't seem worth using at all unless you're running something low-leveled for an item for an alt or something.

As for my Monk, it is indeed Dark-sided, and at level 15. It has a decent amount of gear on it (Lesser Abishai, Vamp Stonedust Wraps, PGird, etc.), so I think I'm okay in that regard. However I'm thinking I might want to reincarnate it to switch things up, specifically to go Light instead of Dark, and possibly other things.

As far as build goes, I was going to stick with two-weapon and unarmed fighting. Stick builds don't seem too appealing to me, honestly. So with that in mind, what would you suggest I did? I have a Lesser and +20 Lesser Heart on me currently. As far as what I want to do with my Monk goes, I'd like to be able to dish out plenty of damage and be fairly self-sufficient, with self-healing if possible. Very solo-friendly, and even stronger with a group.

One thing I noticed when looking over my Monk, is that it's much more complex than, say, my 20/Fighter.. whose build was as simple as dumping points in to the Human tree, then the Kensai tree, and having 7 points left over for whatever.

Anyway, any suggestions on this?

Daitengu
01-30-2014, 12:59 AM
Thanks for the reply! So Dark side got the nerfbat, eh? Very much so. ToD procs only once now. No more 2000 dmg with it. On the other hand the distinction between light and dark watered down alot. You can have most points in shintao and still have Shadow Veil.

blackdoguk
01-30-2014, 01:07 AM
You should have a free +20 heart in your inventory from when they changed enhancements so you can rejig your character somewhat if you want to explore epic levels rather than do a heroic tr. 20 Monk is as viable as anything else in most content with cocoon and a decent ED. I'd start in the primal sphere to get that quickly.

Personally I like the synthesis of a centered kensai(at least 8 ftr 6 monk) though some people will call you unoriginal.

*edit* rereading your post I see you're premium and won't have access to epic destinies - which if bought seperately would be about 1k turbine points.

TeacherSyn
01-30-2014, 02:50 PM
Your mileage may GREATLY vary on whether the Dark Side lost its cookies. I beg to differ.

In fact, the Monk class gained several advantages.

The Dark path still has Touch of Death, but now has Ninja Poison, a very nasty DoT that works very, very well against even many Red Names. Mind you, you must use piercing and slashing weapons, but the Ninja Spy still gets proficiency in shortswords at the start. Remember that Ninja Spy had only 2 old prestige upgrades while Shintao had three. Now the Ninja effectively gained its third level. The stealth system is also completely changed, allowing you to use the ninja like a ninja and use tactics rather than treating your character as a bludgeon all the time to beat the game.

Ninjas also have Ninjitsu effects, replacing the nearly-useless elemental debuffs now found in the Henshin Mystic tree. One of these, Wave of Despair, will do a mass-neg level on all nearby enemies as you complete a Touch of Despair dark/dark/dark finisher. Nerf, my butt. You get this at level freakin' three.

Further, at level 20 and all Ninja Spy core abilities trained, any piercing/slashing weapon you wield, including shuriken, can vorpal to go with all that poison DoTs. There are also improvements to Sneak Attack and overall damage with piercing/slashing weapons. Some builds, like the Shiradi Shuricannon (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423018-Shiradi-Shuricannon), use ONLY the throwing star as a weapon and are kill-machines that can challenge a Monkcher.

New to the lineup is the Henshin Mystic that weaponizes ki like a spellcaster does mana and does very heavy damage with quarterstaves.

The Shintao lineup is much the same but is now firmly a tanking tree with greater defenses.

Do note that one nerf occurred: If you are anything other than Half-Elf or Human, you get no racial healing amplification. And what was "Monk Improved Recovery" is found only in the six Shintao core enhancements, so Healing Ki will not be as effective if you fail to trail all six cores for the 30% boost. The new enhancements do allow you to pick about from any of the three trees, so you can make a Shintao with Shadow Veil invisibility/incorporeality from the Ninja line, or add in extra Fire and Force damage to your Ninja from the Henshin Mystic tree. This versatility, in my opinion, gives even less reason not to work a pure character that still does substantial damage and character versatility, giving up nothing as a Monk.

Going pure is still very useful. I would weigh your options. But if you speak only the Black Speech of Min-Maxing and that's your thing, go ahead and blend in something else.

Rhysem
01-30-2014, 07:48 PM
At 3 you don't have the ki generation to power a neg level machine and it hardly matters since mobs at that level go down so easily anyway. My experience with trying to run short swords was pretty bad. Maybe it gets better later, but up through 6-8 they just weren't really doing it for me, and I used the feat-free-LR before the u20 changes came down to ditch any feats built twoards shorties.

If you're okay with heavy splash there is also monk12/fighter8, run up the kensai tree and be centered with a weapon of your choice. You can do much of the ninja spy fun too, if that's your stick -- no pun intended.

At epic levels, GMoF was very nice on my monk, when I was leveling it as a destiny. Most other stuff has been ... lame to be kind about it.

Your QP DC would be better with sundering wraps right now... but as of u21, they're removing any bonuses from its DC, so it goes to uselessness right quick.

TeacherSyn
01-31-2014, 07:47 AM
At 3 you don't have the ki generation to power a neg level machine and it hardly matters since mobs at that level go down so easily anyway. My experience with trying to run short swords was pretty bad. Maybe it gets better later, but up through 6-8 they just weren't really doing it for me, and I used the feat-free-LR before the u20 changes came down to ditch any feats built twoards shorties.

If you're okay with heavy splash there is also monk12/fighter8, run up the kensai tree and be centered with a weapon of your choice. You can do much of the ninja spy fun too, if that's your stick -- no pun intended.

At epic levels, GMoF was very nice on my monk, when I was leveling it as a destiny. Most other stuff has been ... lame to be kind about it.

Your QP DC would be better with sundering wraps right now... but as of u21, they're removing any bonuses from its DC, so it goes to uselessness right quick.

There's plenty of ki to use Wave of Despair at level 3. However, that's offset by plenty of impatience in playstyle for some to generate ki. I've no problem in using this ability once I get it.

I know you're speaking the min-max way, and this isn't necessarily incorrect information. Shortswords are quite powerful but, as with any other weapon in any other class, requires training and feats to be more effective as time goes on.