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markverrot
01-27-2014, 09:57 AM
I am planning to TR (first TR) into a melee dps build. I am coming from sorcerer, which I like very much, but I am curious to try something new.

The aim of my build is not to run EE content, but to have some fun in the mid to high levels, and perhaps the low epics. I am relatively new, but I have read alot and I think I have some grasp on this game's mechanics. I am also currently in the process of acquiring some GS items which could be useful in this next life.

I am interested in the tempest ranger, because it gives a mix of offense and defense. However, I have many doubts about race and stat choices.


I am currently thinking of this build:

Race: Elf
Class: 12 ranger/8 ftr
Points: 34 (1 TR)
Str: 13
Dex: 18 (20) +5 tome here
Con: 17 (15) +2 tome here
Int: 8
Cha: 8
Wis: 8
Weapons: Scimitars

Since I am running a tempest ranger, Dex will be my main stat for DPS, also provides AC and reflex save. Str must be 13 for PA. Rest of the points in Con.
I choose 11 levels in ranger because it gives protection from energy (which is a useful defensive spell at mid levels), barkskin (extra AC), evasion, and the feat at lvl 11. Fighter levels provide additional feats and HP.

Feat choice will be:

1: PA
2: TWF
3: Two weapon defense
6: Improved TWF, Improved crit
9: Power crit
11: Greater TWF
12: Toughness (or cleave?)
13: Toughness
14: Toughness
15: Toughness
16: Toughness
18: Toughness, Toughness
20: Toughness

Feats are aimed at improving DPS and survivability.


I hope this would be a decent build. I haven't seen many like this, but that may be because this build would not be useful in epic content. This build would have fairly high DPS, with a high dex stat, and feat supported TWF khopeshes. Survivability is also decent, with decent HP (15 con and quite some ftr levels), good reflex save coupled with evasion, good AC, protection from elements spell.


Things I have a doubt about:
- would it be viable to drop some dex for extra con? I can put the tome on either con or dex.
- an option could be to take up the dragonmark feat for displacement. This would cost a feat, and enhancement points. Worth it?
- is the +1 to hit from weapon focus worth it to trade toughness in for? or will a high dex mean I will be hitting every time anyway.

Aside from my questions, other suggestions are also greatly appreciated.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 10:07 AM
Why would you want Rage on a DEX build? :confused: I could almost see doing a CON-based dwarf rgr / barb, but it seems pointless on a DEX build.

Also, none of the DEX-to-dmg options work with khopeshes.

Hjarki
01-27-2014, 10:34 AM
Why would you want Rage on a DEX build? :confused: I could almost see doing a CON-based dwarf rgr / barb, but it seems pointless on a DEX build.

Also, none of the DEX-to-dmg options work with khopeshes.

If you're centered with Khopesh (Kensai, Ftr 8+), Ninja Spy (from Monk) should allow you dex-to-damage with them. Not that it's remotely an option for the above build.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 10:39 AM
Oops, good catch: I stand (well, sit) corrected. :o I keep forgetting about that one, perhaps because all the monk / kensei builds I see are STR-based.

markverrot
01-27-2014, 12:41 PM
Why would you want Rage on a DEX build? :confused: I could almost see doing a CON-based dwarf rgr / barb, but it seems pointless on a DEX build.

Also, none of the DEX-to-dmg options work with khopeshes.

Oh man, I have completely missed an important thing, that the dex-for-dmg only goes for light weapons!
And you are right that rage does not add much to this build.

I have rewritten the OP for a 11 ranger/9ftr build with an elf using scimitars.

Saekee
01-27-2014, 12:49 PM
Oh man, I have completely missed an important thing, that the dex-for-dmg only goes for light weapons!
And you are right that rage does not add much to this build.

I am thinking I could instead do this build for an elf with scimitars.
I am rewriting the OP for a 11 ranger/9ftr build with an elf using scimitars.

At some point I will compile a guide for Dex melee builds since they are both tempting and problematic; here is a part of it.

As a level 11 ranger you get Evasion, so that means light armor--evasion and high dex mean good reflex saves. For this reason you will need the best of the light armors for heroic levels:
Max Dex is also Max Dodge. Hence this is a dual issue.
Please note that this list only shows these two attributes. The armors have other stats, like the Marilith Chain's DR and seeker, that are appealing depending on one's gear and build:

Select Named Armors, farmable:
Parasitic: Armor Bonus +19 (+3 from Rough Hide), Max Dex: 9 (min level 14)
Breastplate of Vol: Armor Bonus +16, Max Dex: 7 (min level 14)
Scales of Surety: Armor Bonus +13, Max Dex: 12 (min level 16) Emerald Claw Nugget end reward
Rakshasa Hide: Armor Bonus +12 (+3 from Rough Hide), Max Dex: 13 (min level 16)
Snakeskin Vest: Armor Bonus +11, Max Dex: 13 (min level 8)
Dragonscale: Armor Bonus +11, Max Dex: 12 (min level 14)
Crystal Cove T3 Duelist Leathers: Armor Bonus: +10, Max Dex: 15 (min level 16)
Hero's Leathers: Armor Bonus +10, Max Dex: 11 (min level 16)

Also, you can boost the Max Dex bonus thusly:
Mithral armor: Increases Max Dex by 2, -3 armor check penalty

Suffix:
Nimbleness: armor check penalty reduced by 2
Greater Nimbleness: Max Dex +2, armor check penalty reduced by 4 (can be Cannith Crafted)
Superior Nimbleness: Max Dex +4, armor check penalty reduced by 4
(also Epic Nimbleness: Max Dex +6, armor check penalty reduced by 4)

with the right starting lootgen, supposedly one could craft a +5 Spiritcrafted Mithral Chain shirt of Greater Nimbleness, armor bonus of +14 and max dex of 16

Gear that Increases Max Dex bonus to armor:
ML 12 blue Augment: +1 Armor Mastery
ML 20 blue Augmetn: +2 Armor Mastery
Daggertooth's Belt: +2 Armor Mastery, ML 12, 13 and 14

Feats and Enhancements that increase Max Dex bonus:
Feat: Mobility: +2. This can be crafted onto either armor or even rings, boots, and trinkets for its benefits.


Classes

Ranger:
Tempest enhancement: Improved mobility: : +1/+2/+3 Maximum Dexterity bonus and dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/-2/-3 armor check penalty in light armor. Requirements: Level 3 Ranger, mobility feat

Fighter:
Stalwart Defensive Mastery: +1/+2/+3 Armor Class and Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus. Requirements: Level 1 Fighter
Kensai Improved Mobility: +1/+2/+3 Maximum Dexterity bonus and Dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/-2/-3 Armor Check Penalty in light armor. NOTE: Does not stack with Tempest (Rgr): Improved Mobility! Requirements: Level 3 Fighter, mobility feat

Paladin
Sacred Defender: Sacred Armor Mastery: +1/+2/+3 Armor Class and Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus. Requirements: Level 1 Paladin

Races
Halfling: Nimble Reaction: +1/+2/+3 Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus and Maximum Dodge Bonus Requirements: Tier 2

Half-Elf: Dilettante Special Ability: Armor Mastery: +2 Armor Class and +2 Maximum Dexterity Bonus when wearing Armor. (This enhancement cannot be taken if you possess the Armor Mastery enhancement from the Stalwart Defender tree.) Requirements: Half-Elf dilettante, Fighter.

Level 12 Ranger gets Deflect arrows feat, couple with the defensive enhancement it ends up proccing every 2 seconds...verrrry useful, especially in epics where everything hits you.

markverrot
01-27-2014, 01:15 PM
At some point I will compile a guide for Dex melee builds since they are both tempting and problematic; here is a part of it.

As a level 11 ranger you get Evasion, so that means light armor--evasion and high dex mean good reflex saves. For this reason you will need the best of the light armors for heroic levels:
Max Dex is also Max Dodge. Hence this is a dual issue.
Please note that this list only shows these two attributes. The armors have other stats, like the Marilith Chain's DR and seeker, that are appealing depending on one's gear and build:

Select Named Armors, farmable:
Parasitic: Armor Bonus +19 (+3 from Rough Hide), Max Dex: 9 (min level 14)
Breastplate of Vol: Armor Bonus +16, Max Dex: 7 (min level 14)
Scales of Surety: Armor Bonus +13, Max Dex: 12 (min level 16) Emerald Claw Nugget end reward
Rakshasa Hide: Armor Bonus +12 (+3 from Rough Hide), Max Dex: 13 (min level 16)
Snakeskin Vest: Armor Bonus +11, Max Dex: 13 (min level 8)
Dragonscale: Armor Bonus +11, Max Dex: 12 (min level 14)
Crystal Cove T3 Duelist Leathers: Armor Bonus: +10, Max Dex: 15 (min level 16)
Hero's Leathers: Armor Bonus +10, Max Dex: 11 (min level 16)

Also, you can boost the Max Dex bonus thusly:
Mithral armor: Increases Max Dex by 2, -3 armor check penalty

Suffix:
Nimbleness: armor check penalty reduced by 2
Greater Nimbleness: Max Dex +2, armor check penalty reduced by 4 (can be Cannith Crafted)
Superior Nimbleness: Max Dex +4, armor check penalty reduced by 4
(also Epic Nimbleness: Max Dex +6, armor check penalty reduced by 4)

with the right starting lootgen, supposedly one could craft a +5 Spiritcrafted Mithral Chain shirt of Greater Nimbleness, armor bonus of +14 and max dex of 16

Gear that Increases Max Dex bonus to armor:
ML 12 blue Augment: +1 Armor Mastery
ML 20 blue Augmetn: +2 Armor Mastery
Daggertooth's Belt: +2 Armor Mastery, ML 12, 13 and 14

Feats and Enhancements that increase Max Dex bonus:
Feat: Mobility: +2. This can be crafted onto either armor or even rings, boots, and trinkets for its benefits.


Classes

Ranger:
Tempest enhancement: Improved mobility: : +1/+2/+3 Maximum Dexterity bonus and dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/-2/-3 armor check penalty in light armor. Requirements: Level 3 Ranger, mobility feat

Fighter:
Stalwart Defensive Mastery: +1/+2/+3 Armor Class and Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus. Requirements: Level 1 Fighter
Kensai Improved Mobility: +1/+2/+3 Maximum Dexterity bonus and Dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/-2/-3 Armor Check Penalty in light armor. NOTE: Does not stack with Tempest (Rgr): Improved Mobility! Requirements: Level 3 Fighter, mobility feat

Paladin
Sacred Defender: Sacred Armor Mastery: +1/+2/+3 Armor Class and Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus. Requirements: Level 1 Paladin

Races
Halfling: Nimble Reaction: +1/+2/+3 Armor Maximum Dexterity Bonus and Maximum Dodge Bonus Requirements: Tier 2

Half-Elf: Dilettante Special Ability: Armor Mastery: +2 Armor Class and +2 Maximum Dexterity Bonus when wearing Armor. (This enhancement cannot be taken if you possess the Armor Mastery enhancement from the Stalwart Defender tree.) Requirements: Half-Elf dilettante, Fighter.

Level 12 Ranger gets Deflect arrows feat, couple with the defensive enhancement it ends up proccing every 2 seconds...verrrry useful, especially in epics where everything hits you.

Nice list. It seems that the armor dex cap will not really be a limit.

Oh I see your point with the 12th level of ranger. Since 9th level fighter does not offer another feat anyway, I will change this build into 12/8.

Saekee
01-27-2014, 02:27 PM
Nice list. It seems that the armor dex cap will not really be a limit.

Oh I see your point with the 12th level of ranger. Since 9th level fighter does not offer another feat anyway, I will change this build into 12/8.

Starting: 18 + (5 level ups) + (5 enhancements lines) + (6 typical max heroic gear) = 34 basic high heroic dex stat by level 18. This equals dex bonus of: +12
Starting dex of 20 is feasible, and tomes can further boost this higher to a total of 38, even up to 41.
Then add exceptional, insightful, etc. and it can go even further with specialized gear.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 02:38 PM
Weapons: Scimitars
Rather than scimitars, I would build for rapiers instead: lets you take advantage of Elven Grace (DEX to dmg w/rapiers, longbows, longswords) and Balizarde (http://ddowiki.com/page/Balizarde) beats any epic scimitar, AFAIK.

3: Two weapon defense
I find TWD rather meh (only +5 PRR), unless you're planning to take Imp Parry as well for another +10 PRR. Even then there's usually better feats to take, now that you can get so much PRR from gear.

6: Improved TWF, Improved crit
IC req's BAB 8, so you won't be able to take it @ lvl 6.

9: Power crit
PC is less bad than it used to be, but it's still only +2 seeker bonus, so I would probably skip it.

12: Toughness (or cleave?)
13: Toughness
14: Toughness
15: Toughness
16: Toughness
18: Toughness, Toughness
20: Toughness
Needs moar Toughness. :cool:

I've been experimenting with DEX builds since U19 rolled out. Were I to do a DEX elf rgr 12 / ftr 8, it'd look something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Elf Female
(8 Fighter \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 19
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 19 28
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Enchantment Lore (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - A Good Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target


Melee-focused, but with pretty good ranged DPS as well. The Shadow DM + Extend adds 4 uses of Displacement; Quik+Emp Heal are for Rejuv Cocoon.

markverrot
01-27-2014, 03:14 PM
Rather than scimitars, I would build for rapiers instead: lets you take advantage of Elven Grace (DEX to dmg w/rapiers, longbows, longswords) and Balizarde (http://ddowiki.com/page/Balizarde) beats any epic scimitar, AFAIK.

I find TWD rather meh (only +5 PRR), unless you're planning to take Imp Parry as well for another +10 PRR. Even then there's usually better feats to take, now that you can get so much PRR from gear.

IC req's BAB 8, so you won't be able to take it @ lvl 6.

PC is less bad than it used to be, but it's still only +2 seeker bonus, so I would probably skip it.

Needs moar Toughness. :cool:

I've been experimenting with DEX builds since U19 rolled out. Were I to do a DEX elf rgr 12 / ftr 8, it'd look something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Elf Female
(8 Fighter \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 19
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 19 28
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Enchantment Lore (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Graceful Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Deflect Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Light Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - A Good Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Keen Edge (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target


Melee-focused, but with pretty good ranged DPS as well. The Shadow DM + Extend adds 4 uses of Displacement; Quik+Emp Heal are for Rejuv Cocoon.


Elves also have racial bonuses for scimitars. They seem basically identical, though I like the look of a scimmy more :d

TWD also provides +1 AC, which may be useful for my build which is relatively high in AC.

I read in power crit's description that it not only adds +2 seeker, but also +2 damage on crits. This would seem to make it useful after all?


I like the ideas in your build.
I would prefer to keep melee though. As I see it extend works with displacement from the dragonmark? That seems useful!


I am still very much in doubt of the feats:

-Dragonmark of shadow, worth it? I may also look into crafting a GS item with displacement. The dragonmark costs alot of enhancement points, and a feat.
-Cleave, great cleave, worth it? It seems to me cleave is a nice skill for a melee build, but I hear alot of voices against cleave on this forum.
-Whirlwind attack, worth it? If cleave is good, this feat would be good too. If I would take great cleave anyway, and also mobility to increase the dex cap, going for whirldwind attack is only a small investment.
-Weapon focus, worth it? +1 to hit is good, but because of my high to hit from maxed dex, wouldn't I hit almost anything on a 2+?

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 04:48 PM
Elves also have racial bonuses for scimitars. They seem basically identical, though I like the look of a scimmy more :d
Elven racial bonuses are split into two groups: Aerenal (rapiers, longbows, longswords) and Valenar (falchions, scimitars, shortbows). Since longbows beat shortbows and Balizarde beats epic scimitars (heroic weapons are a wash), it makes sense to go for Aerenal.

I read in power crit's description that it not only adds +2 seeker, but also +2 damage on crits. This would seem to make it useful after all?
That is what a Seeker bonus is. In the past it only provided the crit confirmation bonus, which is/was pointless.

I would prefer to keep melee though.
If you're taking more than a rgr splash, it makes zero sense not to exploit your ranged feats as well, particularly as Aerenal's DEX-to-dmg works with longbows. Manyshot + Unbridled Fury is one of the best burst DPS options available for epics. Next you'll be telling me you won't use ranger spells either!

As I see it extend works with displacement from the dragonmark? That seems useful!
Correct, and since you can only get 4 uses of it (5 if you have Chimera's Crown), it makes sense to get as much mileage outta it as you can.

Dragonmark of shadow, worth it? I may also look into crafting a GS item with displacement. The dragonmark costs alot of enhancement points, and a feat.
That's up to you. Personally I hate relying on clickies or UMDing scrolls, particularly for short-term buffs. For 7 APs & two feats, you'll have 4 uses of Displacement which last over 20 minutes total between shrines at endgame: 6 secs per lvl * 28 char lvls * 2 Extended * 4 uses = 1,344 secs.

Besides, there aren't a lot of perks to playing elves these days, so I'm trying to milk `em for all they're worth... ;)

-Cleave, great cleave, worth it? It seems to me cleave is a nice skill for a melee build, but I hear alot of voices against cleave on this forum.
Cleave & GC are a lot better than they used to be; and Cleave is a pre-req for Lay Waste & Momentum Swing in Legendary Dreadnought. So even w/out Overwhelming Crit, they're worth taking on a melee build if you can, IMHO.

-Whirlwind attack, worth it? If cleave is good, this feat would be good too. If I would take great cleave anyway, and also mobility to increase the dex cap, going for whirldwind attack is only a small investment.
Whirlwind costs five feats: four pre-reqs (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk, Combat Expertise) plus itself; that makes it prohibitively expensive on almost any build. If you really want it, you can squeeze it in, but it's not worth it, IMHO.

-Weapon focus, worth it? +1 to hit is good, but because of my high to hit from maxed dex, wouldn't I hit almost anything on a 2+?
The Weap Foc / Spec / GWF chain are pre-reqs for Keen Edge (Kensei T5): +1 crit range, stacks w/Imp Crit, so effectively +10% crit chance.

sifubob
01-27-2014, 05:32 PM
Elves also have racial bonuses for scimitars. They seem basically identical, though I like the look of a scimmy more :d

I like Scimitars more too. There are two weapons groups, Valenar (Scimitars, Falchions, Shortbows), and (Aeranal) Longsword, Rapier, Longbows. Both good groups, but for mainly dual wielding id go the Valenar. Don't forget that you still have potent ranged capability with a shortbow for when its needed. you get free ranged feats, including manyshot (!) and if you go all the way up the Elven weapon training line, dex to damage for the shortbow too.

TWD also provides +1 AC, which may be useful for my build which is relatively high in AC.

Sadly, still a kinda crappy feat. not terrible, but is competing with better options

I read in power crit's description that it not only adds +2 seeker, but also +2 damage on crits. This would seem to make it useful after all?

Well, seeker is +2 to confirm crits, +2 damage on crits, so it is excatly like seeker 2. stacking though. but again, competing with better stuff


I like the ideas in your build.
I would prefer to keep melee though. As I see it extend works with displacement from the dragonmark? That seems useful!

It does. It is. this is a good option.


I am still very much in doubt of the feats:

-Dragonmark of shadow, worth it? I may also look into crafting a GS item with displacement. The dragonmark costs alot of enhancement points, and a feat.

I find it invaluable. If you want to take the full Elven damage bonus line, you need some points to push you further up the tree anyway, and the points spent on the Dragonmark are enough to take the top tier Elf stuff.

-Cleave, great cleave, worth it? It seems to me cleave is a nice skill for a melee build, but I hear alot of voices against cleave on this forum.

well, i don't think so, but opinions differ here. You only get the cleave with the mainhand weapon, not both weapons.

-Whirlwind attack, worth it? If cleave is good, this feat would be good too. If I would take great cleave anyway, and also mobility to increase the dex cap, going for whirldwind attack is only a small investment.

If you didnt have to spend a feat on Combat Expertise, id say go for it... but, its not good enough for 2 feats, i think.

-Weapon focus, worth it? +1 to hit is good, but because of my high to hit from maxed dex, wouldn't I hit almost anything on a 2+?

Weapon Focus is only really needed as a prerequisite for other feats (like Power Critical, or Weapon Specialization. By itself, it ****.



This is what my Dex Elf would look like, if i were to make another with this class split;

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 21 Lawful Good Elf Male
(8 Fighter \ 12 Ranger \ 1 Epic)
Hit Points: 291
Spell Points: 202
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 21)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 19 25
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 21)
Balance 4 8
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 3
Hide 4 13
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 1 2
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 4 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 2
Spellcraft -1 0
Spot 2 5
Swim 1 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Regarding the Class order chosen;
1-12 ranger taken first because the ranger class has many auto granted feats, and its best to get them early. Especially Evasion. Fighter just has feats, and they are always useful, early or late.


Regarding the Feats chosen

1. Power Attack; why not, get it early, kill stuff. could easily swap it for 3 if wanted.
Favored enemy Undead; Undead are plentiful at low levels, and cannot be critically hit (unless you take Precision, or other fort bypassing stuff which you wont have).

3. Dodge; Even though you will have a high dex, you wont be a particularly high AC toon, due to Light Armor AC not scaling as quickly as Heavy Armor AC. So, make use of the high max dex of light armor to get dodge in. it's great.

5. FA Giant; Ogres and Trolls count as giants, and are also a plentiful foe. While they can be critted, you will still want to drop them asap, as they can really hurt. And, of course, Gianthold later.

6. DM of Shadow; taken here because lvl 6 is about when you have enough points to push up the elven racial tree to get Dex to Damage, and +4 to hit and damage for scimitars / shortbows along the way.

9. IC: Slashing; 15+ crits? yup...

10 FE: Evil Outsider; last Favored enemy you get, so choice is yours here. I would go this one because a lot of EO's have some sorta DR, and if you can't break it for whatever reason, this can help to kill the buggers.

12 Empower Heal; This taken here for two reasons. One; with some devotion gear, maxed out Heal skill and Empower heal on, you can actually make Cure Light Wounds do enough healing to have it as an emergency heal. Has saved my toon's life many times. Also, for epic levels it is the only feat that can boost the healing from Rejuvenation Cocoon. So, the most important Meta for Ranger IMO.

13 Mobility; more dodging. cause you can.

14 WF: Slashing; Taken simply to get Weapon Expertise: Slashing (+2 damage with slashing weapons, Fighter 4+ only)

15 Extend Spell; Taken to double your Displacement dragonmark ability. By this level your AC will have fallen behind, and you will be relying more on dodge and displacement to survive.

16 Weapon Spec. Slashing; +2 more damage per hit, why not.

18 IC Ranged; You will be pretty deadly with a bow, your Manyshot will be shooting 4 arrows at a time now so you may as well have them crit more. Even if you melee 95% of the time, there will be times when you will really want to pull out that shortbow, hit manyshot, and watch things die. (like, some bosses that you can't go toe to toe against, foes on ledges, enemies with fire/cold shield up, etc..)
You could even consider moving this up in the order if there is something above you don't really dig that much.

20; Spring Attack; a bit more dodge. the removal of the -4 penalty is nice, but not a major consideration here. mostly the dodge.

21; Toughness; Well, i managed to fit one Toughness in there :) actually, i'm not really sure here, but toughness seems a good choice

EDIT: oh, i forgot Quicked Spell; useful for quickening both your Displacement and Rejuv. Cocoon. And Starting WIS 14 gives you more Spell Points for heals, you need at least 12 WIS to cast lvl 2 ranger spells (though you could put a WIS item on to meet that, it's nice to have the option to not wear one) but most importantly more Will Save, which will be a weak point on this build...
Regarding the post above, he has a good point about Epic stuff. Considering you said that you were more concerned with heroic and early epic i went with the above, and didn't really consider too much epic stuff.
Legendary Dreadnought it great for melee's, and so Cleave + Great cleave would be worth considering if you wanted to press into the higher epic levels. But, you can still do fine in EH all the way to cap without LD.
Also, if you did go Aerenal weapons (Longsword, Rapier, Longbow) you would likely want to pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, as neither Longswords or Rapiers are light weapons.

markverrot
01-27-2014, 06:11 PM
Elven racial bonuses are split into two groups: Aerenal (rapiers, longbows, longswords) and Valenar (falchions, scimitars, shortbows). Since longbows beat shortbows and Balizarde beats epic scimitars (heroic weapons are a wash), it makes sense to go for Aerenal.

That is what a Seeker bonus is. In the past it only provided the crit confirmation bonus, which is/was pointless.

If you're taking more than a rgr splash, it makes zero sense not to exploit your ranged feats as well, particularly as Aerenal's DEX-to-dmg works with longbows. Manyshot + Unbridled Fury is one of the best burst DPS options available for epics. Next you'll be telling me you won't use ranger spells either!

Correct, and since you can only get 4 uses of it (5 if you have Chimera's Crown), it makes sense to get as much mileage outta it as you can.

That's up to you. Personally I hate relying on clickies or UMDing scrolls, particularly for short-term buffs. For 7 APs & two feats, you'll have 4 uses of Displacement which last over 20 minutes total between shrines at endgame: 6 secs per lvl * 28 char lvls * 2 Extended * 4 uses = 1,344 secs.

Besides, there aren't a lot of perks to playing elves these days, so I'm trying to milk `em for all they're worth... ;)

Cleave & GC are a lot better than they used to be; and Cleave is a pre-req for Lay Waste & Momentum Swing in Legendary Dreadnought. So even w/out Overwhelming Crit, they're worth taking on a melee build if you can, IMHO.

Whirlwind costs five feats: four pre-reqs (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk, Combat Expertise) plus itself; that makes it prohibitively expensive on almost any build. If you really want it, you can squeeze it in, but it's not worth it, IMHO.

The Weap Foc / Spec / GWF chain are pre-reqs for Keen Edge (Kensei T5): +1 crit range, stacks w/Imp Crit, so effectively +10% crit chance.

Ah, for some reason I thought you had to choose between a ranged feat and a TWF feat. Coupled with the dex-dmg for longbow ranged seems very useful indeed. I will certainly put it to use, and it also looks more fun to be able to switch between melee and ranged now and then.
Thanks for the info!



This is what my Dex Elf would look like, if i were to make another with this class split;

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 21 Lawful Good Elf Male
(8 Fighter \ 12 Ranger \ 1 Epic)
Hit Points: 291
Spell Points: 202
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 21)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 19 25
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 21)
Balance 4 8
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 3
Hide 4 13
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 1 2
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 4 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 2
Spellcraft -1 0
Spot 2 5
Swim 1 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Valenar Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness




Regarding the Class order chosen;
1-12 ranger taken first because the ranger class has many auto granted feats, and its best to get them early. Especially Evasion. Fighter just has feats, and they are always useful, early or late.


Regarding the Feats chosen

1. Power Attack; why not, get it early, kill stuff. could easily swap it for 3 if wanted.
Favored enemy Undead; Undead are plentiful at low levels, and cannot be critically hit (unless you take Precision, or other fort bypassing stuff which you wont have).

3. Dodge; Even though you will have a high dex, you wont be a particularly high AC toon, due to Light Armor AC not scaling as quickly as Heavy Armor AC. So, make use of the high max dex of light armor to get dodge in. it's great.

5. FA Giant; Ogres and Trolls count as giants, and are also a plentiful foe. While they can be critted, you will still want to drop them asap, as they can really hurt. And, of course, Gianthold later.

6. DM of Shadow; taken here because lvl 6 is about when you have enough points to push up the elven racial tree to get Dex to Damage, and +4 to hit and damage for scimitars / shortbows along the way.

9. IC: Slashing; 15+ crits? yup...

10 FE: Evil Outsider; last Favored enemy you get, so choice is yours here. I would go this one because a lot of EO's have some sorta DR, and if you can't break it for whatever reason, this can help to kill the buggers.

12 Empower Heal; This taken here for two reasons. One; with some devotion gear, maxed out Heal skill and Empower heal on, you can actually make Cure Light Wounds do enough healing to have it as an emergency heal. Has saved my toon's life many times. Also, for epic levels it is the only feat that can boost the healing from Rejuvenation Cocoon. So, the most important Meta for Ranger IMO.

13 Mobility; more dodging. cause you can.

14 WF: Slashing; Taken simply to get Weapon Expertise: Slashing (+2 damage with slashing weapons, Fighter 4+ only)

15 Extend Spell; Taken to double your Displacement dragonmark ability. By this level your AC will have fallen behind, and you will be relying more on dodge and displacement to survive.

16 Weapon Spec. Slashing; +2 more damage per hit, why not.

18 IC Ranged; You will be pretty deadly with a bow, your Manyshot will be shooting 4 arrows at a time now so you may as well have them crit more. Even if you melee 95% of the time, there will be times when you will really want to pull out that shortbow, hit manyshot, and watch things die. (like, some bosses that you can't go toe to toe against, foes on ledges, enemies with fire/cold shield up, etc..)
You could even consider moving this up in the order if there is something above you don't really dig that much.

20; Spring Attack; a bit more dodge. the removal of the -4 penalty is nice, but not a major consideration here. mostly the dodge.

21; Toughness; Well, i managed to fit one Toughness in there :) actually, i'm not really sure here, but toughness seems a good choice

EDIT: oh, i forgot Quicked Spell; useful for quickening both your Displacement and Rejuv. Cocoon. And, regarding the post above, he has a good point about Epic stuff. Considering you said that you were more concerned with heroic and early epic i went with the above, and didn't really consider too much epic stuff.
Legendary Dreadnought it great for melee's, and so Cleave + Great cleave would be worth considering if you wanted to press into the higher epic levels. But, you can still do fine in EH all the way to cap without LD.
Also, if you did go Aerenal weapons (Longsword, Rapier, Longbow) you would likely want to pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, as neither Longswords or Rapiers are light weapons.

This looks like a nice build. I think I will follow this one, or something very close to it.
I will judge cleave later then, based on my gameplay experience. I have only played melee chars on lower levels thus far.

I am just wondering why you put those points in wis instead of con. My SP will be decent with a magi item and sorc past life.

Also, I am a bit torn between the 2 weapon groups. Rapier comes with longbow, but it gives -2 to hit (or a feat). Could the -2 to hit reduce my DPS, or is this not really a problem considering my large attack bonus? I may also select scimitar+short bow, shortbow only provides -1 damage. So it is basically -2 to hit on melee vs. -1 dmg on ranged. I will probably use melee the most, but the tricky thing is that I may use ranged against the most difficult enemies, where the bonuses matter the most.

sifubob
01-27-2014, 08:11 PM
I am just wondering why you put those points in wis instead of con. My SP will be decent with a magi item and sorc past life.

Also, I am a bit torn between the 2 weapon groups. Rapier comes with longbow, but it gives -2 to hit (or a feat). Could the -2 to hit reduce my DPS, or is this not really a problem considering my large attack bonus? I may also select scimitar+short bow, shortbow only provides -1 damage. So it is basically -2 to hit on melee vs. -1 dmg on ranged. I will probably use melee the most, but the tricky thing is that I may use ranged against the most difficult enemies, where the bonuses matter the most.

I did ninja in a second edit to explain that, but shoulda made a EDIT no.2 or something, sorry. I will reproduce it here; "Starting WIS 14 gives you more Spell Points for heals, you need at least 12 WIS to cast lvl 2 ranger spells (though you could put a WIS item on to meet that, it's nice to have the option to not wear one) but most importantly more Will Save, which will be a weak point on this build..."

But, as you say, you will have a lotta spell points with a wizardry item or what ever, so that part is just down to personal preference. Slotting a Wise 6 of the Magi necklace or what ever would cover the first two points of the above, but more will save is always good.

Oh, and about the Oversized two weapon fighting. in the lower levels the extra -2 to hit for both hands will result in a few more misses, but at higher levels much less so. So, if you decide to go Longbow + Longsword/Rapier you could take Oversized feat, and swap it out at higher levels. It is worth noting that there are many more named longbows than shortbows, and more named longsword+rapier than scimitar.

Personally, i feel that for the most part, it doesnt really matter that much. Go with whatever you like more, and you'll enjoy it more.

unbongwah
01-28-2014, 09:04 AM
Ah, for some reason I thought you had to choose between a ranged feat and a TWF feat.
That's how it works in PnP D&D and NWN, but DDO rgrs get all their TWF and ranged feats free. I suppose it's compensation for not getting a (gimp) pet...

Rawrargh
01-28-2014, 09:23 AM
I got really confused when looking at the build because the date on the post says it's from yesterday, yet you picked up 8(!?!?!?!?) toughness feats...

It really isn't worth it to take more than 1... Actually I wouldn't even bother taking it if I couldn't qualify for epic toughness. There are just so many other feats that are way cooler than just a static, boring, underwhelming bump in HP...

cleave + great cleave is great on a strength build, but I can see how they might not be as apealing to you since you won't qualify for overwhelming critical.

Dodge and mobility however are way more interesting than the 56 HP from two toughness feats.

Weapon focus, weapon specialization and greater weapon focus is also VERY nice since they add +4 damage on each attack and let's you expand your crit range with +1 (before improved critical, so +2 actually). So +4 damage/hit and +10% crit chance Vs 84 HP at cap... I know what I'd pick.

*edit* Oh yeah and forgot to mention dodge and mobility also opens up for an additional +3% dodge and +3% max dodge from either tempest or kensei

markverrot
01-28-2014, 01:49 PM
Thanks guys,

I think I will go rapier route then.
But I think I prefer some hp over some SP and + will (although the WS will be very low for this char).


I think my final build will be:
Race: Elf
Class: 12 ranger/8 ftr
Points: 34 (1 TR)
Str: 13
Dex: 18 (20) +5 tome here
Con: 17 (15) +2 tome here
Int: 8
Cha: 8
Wis: 8
Weapons: Rapiers


Feat choice will be:

1: PA
3: Dragonmark
6: Extend
9: Improved crit (pierce)
12: Power crit
13: Point blank
14: Improved crit: ranged
15: Weapon focus (pierce)
16: Weapon spec (pierce)
18: Two weapon defense, dodge
20: Mobility

Depending on how I will experience gameplay, I may decide to fit in quicken and emp. healing instead of mobility, TWD, or power crit, if I find that I am really in need of fast, good healing.