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KookieKobold
01-23-2014, 02:36 PM
We've pushed a build out to Lamannia and it is now online and ready!

Join us in a first look at the Thunderholme adventure area and the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar.


Release notes and known issues will be posted shortly by Squeak.


Tonight, from 6:30pm to 7:30pm eastern (GMT-5) Squeak and I will be online.

In addition, we'll be holding a few events over the weekend, info on those will be posted shortly as well.


**Edit**

We'll be around to run some Haunted Halls and Thunderholme with folks on Saturday the 25th between the hours of 10am and noon, and 2pm and 4pm eastern (GMT-5)

We'll see you there!

SqueakofDoom
01-23-2014, 02:38 PM
Release Notes ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503430#post4503430') and Known Issues ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376772-Lamannia-Known-Issues-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503425#post4503425') have been updated!

Surveys ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/414630-Surveys!?p=4979238#post4979238') for the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar ('https://d12.parature.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?type=web&deptID=24037&surveyID=316') and the Thunderholme Adventure Area ('https://d12.parature.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?type=web&deptID=24037&surveyID=317') are now available!

danotmano1998
01-23-2014, 02:39 PM
Excellent!! Can't wait to explore this!

Could this new build be the reason why there are a number of threads with "Can't log in to the game" going around?

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 02:49 PM
4th Twist!!!!!!

Just sell it in the store :)

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 02:50 PM
XP changes are Troll-approved.

UurlockYgmeov
01-23-2014, 02:56 PM
We've pushed a build out to Lamannia and it is now online and ready!

Join us in a first look at the Thunderholme adventure area and the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar.


Release notes and known issues will be posted shortly by Squeak.


Tonight, from 6:30pm to 7:30pm eastern (GMT-5) Squeak and I will be online.

In addition, we'll be holding a few events over the weekend, info on those will be posted shortly as well.


Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503430#post4503430) and Known Issues (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376772-Lamannia-Known-Issues-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503425#post4503425) have been updated!

+1

TPICKRELL
01-23-2014, 02:56 PM
That's a serious nerf to Quivering palm. It was useless before you added sundering, was too good after you added sundering and is back to useless with these changes. At -15 to -25 dc (10 from sundering and im presuming 10 from combat mastery + tactics since that came with sundering) its not going to land on any difficult content and its too expensive in ki to use it if it only lands once in 4 or 5 attempts.

Oh well was nice while it worked, but time to delete it from the bars again.

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Monks got njerfed!!!!!

The Monk's Quivering Palm ability is getting some revisions related to its DC, as part of investigation into balancing Death effects. Quivering Palm no longer benefits from Sundering bonuses. However, whenever an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you get a stacking +4 bonus to your Quivering Palm DC. This stack is dispelled when you successfully kill someone with Quivering Palm. We are keeping an eye on these numbers and they may be changed in the future.

This is the full text of Quivering Palm:
Melee Attack: Deliver a fatal attack by sending waves of vibrations through your target. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + 1/2 Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier). When an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you gain a stacking +4 Perseverance bonus to your Quivering Palm DC until you kill an enemy with Quivering Palm (or 3 minutes pass)."

dejafu
01-23-2014, 02:59 PM
The expected Quivering Palm nerf is here, and it's a doozy....


The Monk's Quivering Palm ability is getting some revisions related to its DC, as part of investigation into balancing Death effects. Quivering Palm no longer benefits from Sundering bonuses. However, whenever an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you get a stacking +4 bonus to your Quivering Palm DC. This stack is dispelled when you successfully kill someone with Quivering Palm. We are keeping an eye on these numbers and they may be changed in the future.

Hmm. This basically makes Quivering Palm useless for the first several uses, but it's almost guaranteed to work eventually if you keep spamming it.

Eh... time to go back to Stunning Fist I guess. It was fun while it lasted!

EllisDee37
01-23-2014, 03:07 PM
So much win in this update, plus a couple good-natured "NOOOOO!!!!"s. hehheh.

Liking the xp changes. Quite a bit actually. I like that you gave the VON3 nerf some teeth. It's still worth running but not nearly as crazy out of proportion as it is on live. Love the boosting to druid's deep, motu and shadowfell.

I'm choosing to interpret the changes to cannith crafting store items as a tacit acknowledgement that cannith crafting merits some dev attention.


Cleric Radiant Servant
* Positive Energy Aura should now work properly, even when you don't have anything targeted.

Yay!


Fixed a bug in Through a Mirror Darkly, which would create an increasingly harsh bright lighting effect the more players you had huddled in close proximity to each other. Consequently, this blew out the Shadowfell Effect and made it seem particularly unbearable.

Nice!


Targets stunned by Soundburst are now considered helpless.

This has me intrigued.


Teleport Spell: The "Teleport to Crafting Hall" selection now takes you to the House Cannith crafting hall, instead of House Kundarak.

NOOOOOO!!!! heh. I use this teleport location not for the crafting hall but for easy access to guild vendors and Red Fens. I'd much rather see a new teleport destination to House Cannith proper, ideally right next to the daily token lady, leaving the crafting hall location in House K.



Greater Dragonmark of Passage: Now allows teleportation to the Harbor, The Twelve, and the House Cannith Crafting Hall.

Woot!


Human and Half-elf males will no longer jump to the side when using a sword and shield or jump back when using a two-handed weapon.

*swoon* Now that's a quality change.


Great Cleave's animation for many races is now the same as Cleave, which was already true for other races.

Total win. This means the "hop" animation is gone from unarmed great cleave, yes? Very nice.

UurlockYgmeov
01-23-2014, 03:12 PM
Hidden Gem in the known issues

NEW: Character Inventory tabs are smaller and overlapping. This is an experiment in progress which may or may not yield results.

- looks like they can fit at least 2 more backpack slots! :D

rest
01-23-2014, 03:15 PM
lol monks

Qhualor
01-23-2014, 03:17 PM
Expecting rants from QP monks.

1300 Comms in epic Otto's. I see still inclined to keep Comms the way it is /sigh

Re-roll a chest bumped to 3×? Why stop there?

When you say "all potions can be used while enraged" does this mean no longer need to buy House K curse pots? Any curse pots like looted from chests or other vendors?

Vellrad
01-23-2014, 03:23 PM
Monks got njerfed!!!!!

The Monk's Quivering Palm ability is getting some revisions related to its DC, as part of investigation into balancing Death effects. Quivering Palm no longer benefits from Sundering bonuses. However, whenever an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you get a stacking +4 bonus to your Quivering Palm DC. This stack is dispelled when you successfully kill someone with Quivering Palm. We are keeping an eye on these numbers and they may be changed in the future.

This is the full text of Quivering Palm:
Melee Attack: Deliver a fatal attack by sending waves of vibrations through your target. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + 1/2 Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier). When an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you gain a stacking +4 Perseverance bonus to your Quivering Palm DC until you kill an enemy with Quivering Palm (or 3 minutes pass)."

This is a wrong nerf.
Lvl15+ monks didn't need nerf.
lvl2-6 monk splashes do.

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 03:26 PM
This is a wrong nerf.
Lvl15+ monks didn't need nerf.
lvl2-6 monk splashes do.

This nerf was needed, I'm sorry QP DCs 10+ a maxed PM was ********.

Hopefully this is the first of many monks nerfs, I literally have wood right now. Move the crit multiplier from Earth to Fire and I won't be able to close my eyelids do to lack of skin,

JOTMON
01-23-2014, 03:29 PM
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503430#post4503430

Nice.
Should be a good update..
Several annoying issues finally on the fix list..

Teleport destinations updated.

4th Twist of Fate for Epic Reincarnation Completionist.. 12 ER lives (79million XP) for 1 additional twist slot is pretty expensive, cant see the point.. but coupled with all the past life benefits...will probably begrudgingly do it....
Would have liked to have seen the extra 2 Build points along with the twist...

stoopid_cowboy
01-23-2014, 03:40 PM
Monks got njerfed!!!!!

Yay!!!

Now to make Many Shot and 10k stars share a cooldown timer.

NytCrawlr
01-23-2014, 03:45 PM
Great Cleave's animation for many races is now the same as Cleave, which was already true for other races.

Total win. This means the "hop" animation is gone from unarmed great cleave, yes? Very nice.

This alone made my day, the rest is gravy.

Good job on getting out some much needed bug fixes. This is going to be a damn good update (about time).

LavidDynch
01-23-2014, 03:54 PM
This nerf was needed, I'm sorry QP DCs 10+ a maxed PM was ********.

Hopefully this is the first of many monks nerfs, I literally have wood right now. Move the crit multiplier from Earth to Fire and I won't be able to close my eyelids do to lack of skin,

Are you the guy running with all the monks on our server? I haven´t seen a single QP monk (besides my own) for like 4 months.

Oh man I dont know about you, but i will be bored to tears playing with shiradi and monkchers only. No worries Monkchers will be nerfed once enough ppl have rolled them, why did you think we got the raiders box -- no such thing as a free lunch.

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 04:03 PM
Are you the guy running with all the monks on our server? I haven´t seen a single QP monk (besides my own) for like 4 months.

Just because there are bigger easy-buttons (see below) doesn't make 75-80 DC QP builds any less ********.

And yes, I have run with them.

Was this nerf heavy-handed? yes. Should it have been? Yes. There U19 QP changes were just plain dumb . . . happens whenever a system is pulled from a random idea with no basis in PnP.



Oh man I dont know about you, but i will be bored to tears playing with shiradi and monkchers only.

Then don't. There are other options.



No worries Monkchers will be nerfed once enough ppl have rolled them, why did you think we got the raiders box -- no such thing as a free lunch.

I'm still not sure how that's gonna happen. Again, the tears will be delicious when it happens.

Dimack
01-23-2014, 04:05 PM
Are you the guy running with all the monks on our server? I haven´t seen a single QP monk (besides my own) for like 4 months.

Oh man I dont know about you, but i will be bored to tears playing with shiradi and monkchers only. No worries Monkchers will be nerfed once enough ppl have rolled them, why did you think we got the raiders box -- no such thing as a free lunch.

He is. He hoards them and makes them run in front of him to kill stuff for him. In other news looks like I'm rerolling my monk again. :P

rest
01-23-2014, 04:08 PM
rest is gravy.

While I do occasionally enjoy a nice meal of biscuits and gravy, I am not actually comprised of gravy. I'll have to eat a lot more of it for that to happen.

EllisDee37
01-23-2014, 04:09 PM
I'm still not sure how that's gonna happen. Again, the tears will be delicious when it happens.A similar mechanic to doubleshot, maybe? Or just have them share a cooldown?

thakorian
01-23-2014, 04:11 PM
Oh well, just another toon shelved because of heavy-handed nerfs. After grinding the gear and generally going through the trouble of making a high qp dc monk it seems as if going from relative usefulness to totally useless is a bit harsh. Gonna cry so much I'll drown teh troll in mah tears.

None of these changes really seem that awesome to me and seem to be mostly catering to the forumites instead of the people who actually play the game. Good luck with your game turbine, stay fresh.

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 04:13 PM
Gonna cry so much I'll drown teh troll in mah tears.

I really need more signature space . . .

EllisDee37
01-23-2014, 04:25 PM
None of these changes really seem that awesome to me and seem to be mostly catering to the forumites instead of the people who actually play the game. Good luck with your game turbine, stay fresh.Many of us forumites actually play the game.

katz
01-23-2014, 04:29 PM
wow at that bug fix list! awesome! :cool:

Engoril
01-23-2014, 04:31 PM
Disappointed to see nothing about any fix for the many still oustanding handwrap bugs.

- Fury of the Wild Adrenaline Overload not granting +threat to handwraps
- Priimal Avatar Summer Smoke wiping certain damage effects, including red augments, from friend and ally handwraps alike. Have to re-equip to get them back. Very annoying when moving in and out of the aura.
- Fury of the Wild Tunnel Visiion also wiping effects in the same way Summer Smoke does, but with this one its every time you get a new rage
- Legendary Dreadnaught having its descriptions rewritten for many things to exclude unarmed rather then fixing the bugs. Why must handwrap users get a lesser version of this ED than other weapon users.
- Why are handwraps still being excluded from many enhancemts on the rather banel excuse that they are not a weapon. Melee enhancements shouldn't care. Melee should be melee however it is done.

Just some of the bugs I remeber having subnitted since MOTU came out.

bbqzor
01-23-2014, 04:32 PM
Release Notes ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376774-Lamannia-Release-Notes-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503430#post4503430') and Known Issues ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376772-Lamannia-Known-Issues-%28Last-Updated-1-23-2014%29?p=4503425#post4503425') have been updated!

The QP changes are Fail. Epic Fail. You are removing something like 21-29 DC off the ability for any Epic Monk, race and items pending. Whoever thought a +4 bonus with a 3 min timer would make up for that should be fired from any game play responsibilities. It would take so long, and so much Ki, to even approach the numbers needed in epic play its simply not worth hitting the button.... which is the exact reason it was changed in the first place. This is not acceptable; its not just going to lower it by 10. Why don't you guys even know what DC you should be aiming for, sigh.

If you want to lower it, consider removing Sunder, but keeping Combat Mastery and general Tactics modifiers. Sunder has nothing to do with QP anyhow and probably never should have. But +Tactics (from Legendary Dreadnought, Combat Mastery, Racial Enhancements, etc) should apply to all combat moves. Including Assassinate.

Pulling 10 off QP probably still leaves it worthless without several fails adding +4-8 back on, but at least it might still be playable. And adding in Tactics to Assassinate gives that ability some much needed assistance. And it lands QP right near where Necro DCs are... a bit higher to start, bit lower after necro debuffs and lacking any area kill options. And that sounds fair to everyone.

Also, while I'm posting... why the change to Teleporting to House C Crafting? I assume because its more flavorful than K.... but its also Laggy-er and has no Airship Dock outside. Which makes it really, really, really inconvenient.

Can we please get an Airship Dock in House C? Since, you know, they build them? If youre going to make changes for flavors sake, at least follow through the full 9 yards instead of just making it harder to travel around.

maddmatt70
01-23-2014, 04:36 PM
This is a pretty huge quivering palm dc change. Too big to be honest. You lose the sundering items, tactics item, tactics enhancement (racial and fighter), tactics destiny (LD twist and GMOF bonus). This is like an over 30 dc change or something like that. I immensely dislike the concept of the +4 for every quivering palm missed. What kind of play are you rewarding with this +4 to the miss - the people that aimless push button after button? Take that +4 out. If anything if you want you could have the monk do a move which costs ki and takes time to do in order to apply a +15 or +20 or some such thing to their quivering palm dc. I am not a fan of rewarding the stupid who continually push the same button over and over, but prefer rewarding an action instead.

maddmatt70
01-23-2014, 04:43 PM
Are you the guy running with all the monks on our server? I haven´t seen a single QP monk (besides my own) for like 4 months.

Oh man I dont know about you, but i will be bored to tears playing with shiradi and monkchers only. No worries Monkchers will be nerfed once enough ppl have rolled them, why did you think we got the raiders box -- no such thing as a free lunch.

I am kind of surprised that I do not see you say Pale Masters. An extremely well played pale master is better then either of those builds right now. They kill far quicker right now then either of those of course it takes more skill to play a palemaster at that level then a shiradi or monkcher so perhaps that is the stumbling block for you all.

LavidDynch
01-23-2014, 04:51 PM
I am kind of surprised that I do not see you say Pale Masters. An extremely well played pale master is better then either of those builds right now. They kill far quicker right now then either of those of course it takes more skill to play a palemaster at that level then a shiradi or monkcher so perhaps that is the stumbling block for you all.

Calm down, we don't want Turbine to sack all builds that would require some work before they function.

Miow
01-23-2014, 04:51 PM
I think they should remove all those bonuses for all monk abilities. Nothing should work if it won't work for QP the only thing that affects them should be wisdom plus monk levels.

Make it so, more rash decisions must be taken.






Bahahahahahahaha! ha..


whimpers and cries....

Meat-Head
01-23-2014, 04:55 PM
Just because there are bigger easy-buttons (see below) doesn't make 75-80 DC QP builds any less ********.

And yes, I have run with them.

.


It's a PITA to 80 DC qp. You have to do some silly things (great wis feats) and grind challenge wraps to get there.

My main is a QP monk and at 75 with completionist, +5 tome, +6 tactics, 3 FTR pastlives, twist, EE shadowsight, max wis, etc..

75 is only 66% on EE stormhorn trash give or take.


They should raise the CD OR up the ki cost. Then they should apply sunder to rogues. Kbai.

Raiderone
01-23-2014, 05:00 PM
This nerf was needed, I'm sorry QP DCs 10+ a maxed PM was ********.

Hopefully this is the first of many monks nerfs, I literally have wood right now. Move the crit multiplier from Earth to Fire and I won't be able to close my eyelids do to lack of skin,

It was way OP from the start. Never added sundering to my monk....knew it was going to be changed. Rangers were nerf'd....Monks were only reset.

make Stunning Blow same DC and cooldown as Stunning Fist . Why different cooldowns and different DC?

stoopid_cowboy
01-23-2014, 05:01 PM
The QP changes are Fail. Epic Fail. You are removing something like 21-29 DC off the ability for any Epic Monk, race and items pending.

So you are saying that is was perfectly fine for Monks (even worse, monks splashes) to be able to get to an 80dc on their QP?
Njerfing them 30dc seems to end with a more realistic number. I, for one, applaud Turbine on smacking the Monk class with the Nerf bat!

Now to address the 6 level OP monk splashes!!!

Raiderone
01-23-2014, 05:02 PM
It's a PITA to 80 DC qp. You have to do some silly things (great wis feats) and grind challenge wraps to get there.

My main is a QP monk and at 75 with completionist, +5 tome, +6 tactics, 3 FTR pastlives, twist, EE shadowsight, max wis, etc..

75 is only 66% on EE stormhorn trash give or take.


They should raise the CD OR up the ki cost. Then they should apply sunder to rogues. Kbai.

And you dont think thats OP? I bet some PM's would like a 75 DC...

Teh_Troll
01-23-2014, 05:04 PM
I can't even say this was a nerf . . . it was a roll-back of an incredibly insane idea that got railroaded in the ENH pass at the last second.

Meat-Head
01-23-2014, 05:05 PM
And you dont think thats OP? I bet some PM's would like a 75 DC...

No, I think PMs should get a buff.

ESPECIALLY since level cap is going up more.

More important is rogues getting a buff.


Also, the DC is not OP. The COOLDOWN is OP.

Derana
01-23-2014, 05:05 PM
nice updates :) and really thanks for the monk QP fix.. it was about time. its annoying to see monks having better dc's than the actual dc casters including rogue assassins.. so again, big thanks for this.

redspecter23
01-23-2014, 05:06 PM
I'm liking the xp boosts to Through a Mirror Darkly and What Goes Up. I'll most definitely be adding them to my rotation, even with their annoyances. I'm a bit disappointed in the raises to the rest of the quests in the pack. I suppose any sort of xp bump is better than nothing, but I fear the long term effect will end up being me flagging for the 5th quest in each series, then running those x2 each day for xp, skipping the flagging quests. Time will tell on this. TaMD is a very fast quest once you know it and could end up being a nice xp farm. WGU is finally worth what it should have been from day one. There's enough xp there to make people want to run it.

Raiderone
01-23-2014, 05:06 PM
So you are saying that is was perfectly fine for Monks (even worse, monks splashes) to be able to get to an 80dc on their QP?
Njerfing them 30dc seems to end with a more realistic number. I, for one, applaud Turbine on smacking the Monk class with the Nerf bat!

Now to address the 6 level OP monk splashes!!!

I think Turbine would be better off making better lvl 12, 18 and 20 Core Enhancements. It's not just about Monks...many splashes are being used...lvl 2-6 ranger, lvl2 -4 pally, lvl 2 -6 divine...

Make the Core Enhancements progressively better from Lvl 12 to Lvl 20. Most times I dont even bother taking the cores!

stoopid_cowboy
01-23-2014, 05:07 PM
75 is only 66% on EE stormhorn trash give or take.




Yet 75dc would be 100% on EH, including orange names.
We all know that EE saves are beyond stupid. Do you have a Whizzard with a 75 necro dc? I think not.

Kik97
01-23-2014, 05:07 PM
What is this akaime netsession that was loaded to my computer during game update and is it necessary? just curious because I uninstalled this unwanted program from both my computers before Lamannia finished updating.

thakorian
01-23-2014, 05:07 PM
And you dont think thats OP? I bet some PM's would like a 75 DC...

bet some PMs would love to be required to go into melee to land instakills and only have one instakill. Totally comparable on all levels.

Miow
01-23-2014, 05:10 PM
So you are saying that is was perfectly fine for Monks (even worse, monks splashes) to be able to get to an 80dc on their QP?
Njerfing them 30dc seems to end with a more realistic number. I, for one, applaud Turbine on smacking the Monk class with the Nerf bat!

Now to address the 6 level OP monk splashes!!!


I for one don't think it's okay to have a 80 QP especially if your not pure.

Making something completely useless is not realistic, a nerf to around 70 would have still been a good nerf. Some of my guildies are running fighter past lives on their monk do you know why? Do you understand why this might be overkill to once again trivialize players hard work.

I'm thinking they be smelling too many troll farts.

Meat-Head
01-23-2014, 05:18 PM
I for one don't think it's okay to have a 80 QP especially if your not pure.

Making something completely useless is not realistic, a nerf to around 70 would have still been a good nerf. Some of my guildies are running fighter past lives on their monk do you know why? Do you understand why this might be overkill to once again trivialize players hard work.

I'm thinking they be smelling too many troll farts.



Show me an 80 dc QP monk please. There are VERY few. For every one 80 DC qper, there's about 25 monkchers AND 25 Shiradi-- if not more.

Miow
01-23-2014, 05:25 PM
Show me an 80 dc QP monk please. There are VERY few. For every one 80 DC qper, there's about 25 monkchers AND 25 Shiradi-- if not more.

Hey man my nerf is much more reasonable no? Wouldn't around 70 dc be usable with the +4 on a fail? I'm not going to argue about monkchers and shiradi because it's true. As far as monkchers go remove 10 k stars for bow use and make it for thrown weapons only.

Andoris
01-23-2014, 05:28 PM
Pulling 10 off QP probably still leaves it worthless without several fails adding +4-8 back on, but at least it might still be playable. And adding in Tactics to Assassinate gives that ability some much needed assistance. And it lands QP right near where Necro DCs are... a bit higher to start, bit lower after necro debuffs and lacking any area kill options. And that sounds fair to everyone.


If we assume that a monk maxes out wisdom and put everything into it their DC's (similar to how a wizard would max out int and put everything into their DC's), you end up with a QP DC that looks like this.

Wis: 68 (18 +7 levels +5 Tome +1 globe +1 litany +11 item +3 insightful +6 epic desitiny +4 from enhancements +2 capstone + 4 water stance + 2 yugo +2 ship +1 twists +3 greater wisdom feats) -- you could add +2 with completionist, +2 with alchemical wraps (but then you can't slot sundering 12 gloves). That leaves two twists, one tactics and one for injury (assuming your not bladeforged).

That gives us a QP DC of --83 (10 base + 10 monk levels + 28 wis mod + 12 sundering item + 6 combat mastery + 6 legendary tactics + 3 GMoF + 3 racial +3 fighter PL's +2 tactician), Add in improved sunder for +2, shaken (fearsome or injury) for +2 and the sundering effect on your wraps for 1 more and we are at an effective QP DC of 88.

So on live today you are at a 83/88 DC versus a 68 necro dc on a fully spec'd out wizard. Just removing the sundering item would bring this down to a 71 dc / 75 effective which is still a bit too high imo. I can somewhat live with it though as wizards get more debuffing options, but still don't like it.

The proposed U21 changes however would put our maxed out QP monk down to a DC of 48 (10 base + 10 monk levls +28 wis mod) with an effective DC of 53 (48 + 2 shaken + 2 improved sunder +1 sundering weapon effect or Alchemical wraps [+2 wisdom]).

At a 53 DC this will never get used -- it is useless in EE content, and most likely useless on EH content.

A balanced solution would be for QP to use full monk levels (+10 dc) and have GMoF grant +1 to monk ability DC's for every core (+5 DC). That would put your QP DC at a 68 which makes the max wisdom monk viable in all content.

Quivering Palm needed a nerf, however; the current U21 solution would make the ability useless (again). My suggestion would make it difficult to get effective DC's, but not impossible, a 68 DC is workable.. you might need to stack some improved sunders to get it to land on higher fort mobs, but it will land, add in the +4 from having it fail once and you are golden. On low fort save mobs QP will be just as effective as before.

This counter-proposal will allow the wisdom based monk build will still be a viable build. Additionally the +5 to monk DC's in GMoF will make many of the other monk abilities in that ED useful in end game content.

xTethx
01-23-2014, 05:29 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

Meat-Head
01-23-2014, 05:29 PM
Hey man my nerf is much more reasonable no?.


It is.

stoopid_cowboy
01-23-2014, 05:31 PM
I for one don't think it's okay to have a 80 QP especially if your not pure.
Agreed! There should be power advantages for staying pure and gaining all of the advantages from your class.


Making something completely useless is not realistic, a nerf to around 70 would have still been a good nerf. Some of my guildies are running fighter past lives on their monk do you know why? Do you understand why this might be overkill to once again trivialize players hard work.
A nerf of 5-10 points would be pointless. The mechanic was broken and abused. The 10+1/2 monk level+wis mod will definately hurt the 18clr/2mnk builds. They may decide that 10+monk level+wis mod is better. But still, a melee instant kill DC far exceeding a necro caster who has spent multiple feats and spell focuses is not right.


I'm thinking they be smelling too many troll farts.
We all know teh_Troll like his Taco Bell, blame him!

redspecter23
01-23-2014, 05:31 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

I was wondering when that would come up. Some serious crowd control was just added to divines and bards.

Wipey
01-23-2014, 05:34 PM
Show me an 80 dc QP monk please. There are VERY few. For every one 80 DC qper, there's about 25 monkchers AND 25 Shiradi-- if not more.
There are VERY few 65+ necro wizzies or evo hjealzors.
For every one such caster, there are about 200 monk/ranger/somethingfighterpally melees.

xTethx
01-23-2014, 05:35 PM
I was wondering when that would come up. Some serious crowd control was just added to divines and bards.

No s***, I'm sure fully decked you can get a serious evo dc and just cc all day. I like this buff, especially for supportish type characters.

jakeelala
01-23-2014, 05:40 PM
If we assume that a monk maxes out wisdom and put everything into it their DC's (similar to how a wizard would max out int and put everything into their DC's), you end up with a QP DC that looks like this.

Wis: 68 (18 +7 levels +5 Tome +1 globe +1 litany +11 item +3 insightful +6 epic desitiny +4 from enhancements +2 capstone + 4 water stance + 2 yugo +2 ship +1 twists +3 greater wisdom feats) -- you could add +2 with completionist, +2 with alchemical wraps (but then you can't slot sundering 12 gloves). That leaves two twists, one tactics and one for injury (assuming your not bladeforged).

That gives us a QP DC of --83 (10 base + 10 monk levels + 28 wis mod + 12 sundering item + 6 combat mastery + 6 legendary tactics + 3 GMoF + 3 racial +3 fighter PL's +2 tactician), Add in improved sunder for +2, shaken (fearsome or injury) for +2 and the sundering effect on your wraps for 1 more and we are at an effective QP DC of 88.

So on live today you are at a 83/88 DC versus a 68 necro dc on a fully spec'd out wizard. Just removing the sundering item would bring this down to a 71 dc / 75 effective which is still a bit too high imo. I can somewhat live with it though as wizards get more debuffing options, but still don't like it.

The proposed U21 changes however would put our maxed out QP monk down to a DC of 48 (10 base + 10 monk levls +28 wis mod) with an effective DC of 53 (48 + 2 shaken + 2 improved sunder +1 sundering weapon effect or Alchemical wraps [+2 wisdom]).

At a 53 DC this will never get used -- it is useless in EE content, and most likely useless on EH content.

A balanced solution would be for QP to use full monk levels (+10 dc) and have GMoF grant +1 to monk ability DC's for every core (+5 DC). That would put your QP DC at a 68 which makes the max wisdom monk viable in all content.

Quivering Palm needed a nerf, however; the current U21 solution would make the ability useless (again). My suggestion would make it difficult to get effective DC's, but not impossible, a 68 DC is workable.. you might need to stack some improved sunders to get it to land on higher fort mobs, but it will land, add in the +4 from having it fail once and you are golden. On low fort save mobs QP will be just as effective as before.

This counter-proposal will allow the wisdom based monk build will still be a viable build. Additionally the +5 to monk DC's in GMoF will make many of the other monk abilities in that ED useful in end game content.

Nailed it.

thakorian
01-23-2014, 05:40 PM
A nerf of 5-10 points would be pointless. The mechanic was broken and abused. The 10+1/2 monk level+wis mod will definately hurt the 18clr/2mnk builds. They may decide that 10+monk level+wis mod is better. But still, a melee instant kill DC far exceeding a necro caster who has spent multiple feats and spell focuses is not right.

Since when did you get quivering palm with 2 levels of monk?

Also, the theoretical maximum qp dc build would hinder so many other abilities that the build is pretty much non-viable for anything other than boasting with high DC numbers. QP doesn't land on mobs you can't hit, also you can't QP while dead.

Also, muchos lols at people thinking the qp dc should be scaled to EH saves or worse, spend less time on the forums.

Wizza
01-23-2014, 05:42 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

Yes. I wish Soundburst was a Sorc spell now.

Myrddinman
01-23-2014, 05:44 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

I see someone else saw this :)

My build gears have been turning since I read this, trying to puzzle out something with Soundburst and No Mercy

redspecter23
01-23-2014, 05:47 PM
I see someone else saw this :)

My build gears have been turning since I read this, trying to puzzle out something with Soundburst and No Mercy

I'm planning out my Cormerian Knight Training PDK Bard right now.

Meat-Head
01-23-2014, 05:49 PM
Since when did you get quivering palm with 2 levels of monk?

Also, the theoretical maximum qp dc build would hinder so many other abilities that the build is pretty much non-viable for anything other than boasting with high DC numbers. QP doesn't land on mobs you can't hit, also you can't QP while dead.

Also, muchos lols at people thinking the qp dc should be scaled to EH saves or worse, spend less time on the forums.


Good point. It ain't always easy wading into melee on EE to deliver a QP.

Myrddinman
01-23-2014, 05:56 PM
I'm planning out my Cormerian Knight Training PDK Bard right now.

Yep...right along those lines :)

Jasparion
01-23-2014, 06:04 PM
Are you the guy running with all the monks on our server? I haven´t seen a single QP monk (besides my own) for like 4 months.

Oh man I dont know about you, but i will be bored to tears playing with shiradi and monkchers only. No worries Monkchers will be nerfed once enough ppl have rolled them, why did you think we got the raiders box -- no such thing as a free lunch.

Just did an EE Tor with a QP Monk with mid-70s DC. Said he fails only when mobs roll a 20 on all EE content.

If this nerf is a -10 DC only, then I like it. If its actually the -27 DC that some are saying, then that is going way too far.

IBCrabin
01-23-2014, 06:22 PM
Make Quivering Palm 15DC + full monk level + Modifier and any Tactics DC (Stunning blow, Trip, Sunder, etc) 15DC + 1/2 character level + Modifier to bring the DC up to EE range.

The Quivering palm loses 10 from Shatter + 6 Combat mastery + 3 Fighter tactics enhancement + Dwarf tactics enhancement, + Grandmaster of flower Tactics, + Fighter past lives; which is about 20-25 DC lost of usefulness depending on class and build.

KookieKobold
01-23-2014, 06:30 PM
Updated the OP with some event times!

We'll see you there!

Vellrad
01-23-2014, 06:35 PM
Any vendors in this thunderdrome thing?
You know, scrolls, pots, ammo?
Barter items?
I liked comms of villagers, PDK, etc. in motu, something like that really lacked in shadowfail.

thakorian
01-23-2014, 06:38 PM
Just did an EE Tor with a QP Monk with mid-70s DC. Said he fails only when mobs roll a 20 on all EE content.

If this nerf is a -10 DC only, then I like it. If its actually the -27 DC that some are saying, then that is going way too far.

Try it instead of relying on anecdotal evidence. Ki starvation and low to-hits are actually a problem on a total ****** QP DC build. I reached sustainable 82 on the previous life of my GMoF QP monk and still failed QPs on orcs in EE WGU ~50% of the time. The things you have to sacrifice in order to reach these DCs make your toon a bit of a glass cannon in higher level content.

Currently I specced my toon for ~72 dc in LD with much more survivability, and I still get my ass handed to me every now and then due to mob melee damage, but survivability enables me to get in more kills and LD counters the total lack of dps from investing so heavily on DCs.

This change will just pigeonhole monks. Losing 12+6 dcs from just equipment alone is devastating, not to mention tactical dc loss from LD and quite possibly even losing the +3dcs you get from GMoF, not to mention racial or PL dcs.

Just staring at the QP DC doesn't really mean anything, so many more things are involved. Needless to say I'm shelving my monk if these changes go live as-is and it's just pretty much another nail in the coffin for ddo for me.

murf201
01-23-2014, 06:39 PM
If they used Dane cooks comment in the movie Waiting !!

As soon as you step in raid you hear " Welcome to thunderholme b!!!! "

Shmuel
01-23-2014, 06:39 PM
A new command: "/raid completions" will list raids and the number of times you have completed them.

This is not new, it has been in the game as long as I can remember, at least since long before ftp. I used it yesterday.

Vellrad
01-23-2014, 06:48 PM
A new command: "/raid completions" will list raids and the number of times you have completed them.

This is not new, it has been in the game as long as I can remember, at least since long before ftp. I used it yesterday.

No, you're using /quest completions, that gives you completions of raids, and 3-4 times more irrelevant number of completions on single quests and chains.

If you will enter /raid completions you will get unknown command error.

HatsuharuZ
01-23-2014, 07:15 PM
Oh well, just another toon shelved because of heavy-handed nerfs. After grinding the gear and generally going through the trouble of making a high qp dc monk it seems as if going from relative usefulness to totally useless is a bit harsh. Gonna cry so much I'll drown teh troll in mah tears.

None of these changes really seem that awesome to me and seem to be mostly catering to the forumites instead of the people who actually play the game. Good luck with your game turbine, stay fresh.

Oh grow up. It's not like monks don't have any other useful abilities.

Atremus
01-23-2014, 07:55 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst


Just remember that it has a spell pen check and Fort save. I do really, really like it though. One of the nicest changes in the update. Makes me want to play my divines again.

Kir1
01-24-2014, 12:55 AM
To developers:

I am in process of reading notes, but want to ask - did you remove "Optionals" farming? Like when you enter EE Crucible, talk to NPCs, get exp from passing bluff/diplo/intimi checks and then reset and repeat again and again.

Since optionals start to give reduced exp only if you run and _finish_ quest, you can farm optionals in this (and other quests) non-stop without reducing exp for optionals. For EE Crucible for example experience Xp/min "optional farming" is much faster than actually running any other quest.

Kir1
01-24-2014, 12:59 AM
Another remark: pure monks (QP builds) are much, much less overpowered in this game then monk (2-6 levels of monk) splashes. Especially when it comes to archery.

Kir1
01-24-2014, 01:03 AM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

You must be new...

15 mana for lvl 2 spell, same as Greater shout.. Yes, very much OP spell given its cost.
Unless you are confusing it with certain lvl 1 spell (sonic spell, not which is spammed by shiradi) for 4 mana, which is indeed OP.



Now to address the 6 level OP monk splashes!!!

I think a lot people waiting for it... Look achievements section - 99% of EE solo (raids included) are 6 lvl monk splashes...

Eth
01-24-2014, 02:42 AM
Fixed some cases where offhand doublestrike would only trigger if the mainhand also had Doublestrike.


Could we get some more clarification on this?
Does this mean doublestrike and off-hand doublestrike are now completely independent of each other and actually trigger accordingly to their individual value?

Wipey
01-24-2014, 02:51 AM
That would be great news.
And get off hand and double strike procs on cleaves, off hand attack at least.

LavidDynch
01-24-2014, 04:58 AM
If we assume that a monk maxes out wisdom and put everything into it their DC's (similar to how a wizard would max out int and put everything into their DC's), you end up with a QP DC that looks like this.

Wis: 68 (18 +7 levels +5 Tome +1 globe +1 litany +11 item +3 insightful +6 epic desitiny +4 from enhancements +2 capstone + 4 water stance + 2 yugo +2 ship +1 twists +3 greater wisdom feats) -- you could add +2 with completionist, +2 with alchemical wraps (but then you can't slot sundering 12 gloves). That leaves two twists, one tactics and one for injury (assuming your not bladeforged).

That gives us a QP DC of --83 (10 base + 10 monk levels + 28 wis mod + 12 sundering item + 6 combat mastery + 6 legendary tactics + 3 GMoF + 3 racial +3 fighter PL's +2 tactician), Add in improved sunder for +2, shaken (fearsome or injury) for +2 and the sundering effect on your wraps for 1 more and we are at an effective QP DC of 88.


Is this the soulstone build? looks very usefull...

QP was the closest thing you could come to balanced.

1. Heavy investments.
2. Worked on 70% of the mobs. None of the important ones.
3. Melee.
4. Single Target.
5. Borderline to 1. If you had QP your red named DPS was worse then a proper bard, i would put it in the 4th tier.

soloist12
01-24-2014, 06:46 AM
You must be new...

You must be slow...


"Targets stunned by Soundburst are now considered helpless."

Acts as a poor man's mass hold now.

Flavilandile
01-24-2014, 07:35 AM
Hmm,

Stupid question :

Is the character copy tool working ? or is it still broken ?

elyssaria
01-24-2014, 08:16 AM
This nerf was needed, I'm sorry QP DCs 10+ a maxed PM was ********.

Hopefully this is the first of many monks nerfs, I literally have wood right now. Move the crit multiplier from Earth to Fire and I won't be able to close my eyelids do to lack of skin,

I must say that I totally agree with the troll here... moving crit multiplier from earth to fire would be a good move....

/E

JOTMON
01-24-2014, 08:29 AM
If we assume that a monk maxes out wisdom and put everything into it their DC's (similar to how a wizard would max out int and put everything into their DC's), you end up with a QP DC that looks like this.

Wis: 68 (18 +7 levels +5 Tome +1 globe +1 litany +11 item +3 insightful +6 epic desitiny +4 from enhancements +2 capstone + 4 water stance + 2 yugo +2 ship +1 twists +3 greater wisdom feats) -- you could add +2 with completionist, +2 with alchemical wraps (but then you can't slot sundering 12 gloves). That leaves two twists, one tactics and one for injury (assuming your not bladeforged).

That gives us a QP DC of --83 (10 base + 10 monk levels + 28 wis mod + 12 sundering item + 6 combat mastery + 6 legendary tactics + 3 GMoF + 3 racial +3 fighter PL's +2 tactician), Add in improved sunder for +2, shaken (fearsome or injury) for +2 and the sundering effect on your wraps for 1 more and we are at an effective QP DC of 88.

So on live today you are at a 83/88 DC versus a 68 necro dc on a fully spec'd out wizard. Just removing the sundering item would bring this down to a 71 dc / 75 effective which is still a bit too high imo. I can somewhat live with it though as wizards get more debuffing options, but still don't like it.

The proposed U21 changes however would put our maxed out QP monk down to a DC of 48 (10 base + 10 monk levls +28 wis mod) with an effective DC of 53 (48 + 2 shaken + 2 improved sunder +1 sundering weapon effect or Alchemical wraps [+2 wisdom]).

At a 53 DC this will never get used -- it is useless in EE content, and most likely useless on EH content.

A balanced solution would be for QP to use full monk levels (+10 dc) and have GMoF grant +1 to monk ability DC's for every core (+5 DC). That would put your QP DC at a 68 which makes the max wisdom monk viable in all content.

Quivering Palm needed a nerf, however; the current U21 solution would make the ability useless (again). My suggestion would make it difficult to get effective DC's, but not impossible, a 68 DC is workable.. you might need to stack some improved sunders to get it to land on higher fort mobs, but it will land, add in the +4 from having it fail once and you are golden. On low fort save mobs QP will be just as effective as before.

This counter-proposal will allow the wisdom based monk build will still be a viable build. Additionally the +5 to monk DC's in GMoF will make many of the other monk abilities in that ED useful in end game content.


The "nerf" or "fix"... I think is still heavy handed.

I would have just changed it from 1/2 Monk to full monk levels and 1/2 wisdom bonus.
It would also benefit investment into Monk levels more so then builds like a cleric 18/monk2... or any of the whateveer/6 monk levels

so would end up as 10 + Monk Levels + 1/2 Wisdom bonus + Extra's..

Gear, Feats, Sundering, Tactics, racial,.... should always be relevant in any build since it is part of the challenge of a build...

Stars aligned gear and buffs is the whole point.. if grinding out all the gear you listed and sacrificing feats/enhancements to focus on QP DC's does not give the build the edge it needs then the whole process is moot. QP will fall back into the void of worthlessness..


I am still surprised that 10k stars has not been addressed.
10kstars and Manyshot should share the exact same timer and cool down .. picking one should invalidate the other.

ThrakThor
01-24-2014, 09:49 AM
OK so the QP nerf is:

Miscellaneous Changes:
The Monk's Quivering Palm ability is getting some revisions related to its DC, as part of investigation into balancing Death effects. Quivering Palm no longer benefits from Sundering bonuses. However, whenever an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you get a stacking +4 bonus to your Quivering Palm DC. This stack is dispelled when you successfully kill someone with Quivering Palm. We are keeping an eye on these numbers and they may be changed in the future.
This is the full text of Quivering Palm:
Melee Attack: Deliver a fatal attack by sending waves of vibrations through your target. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + 1/2 Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier). When an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you gain a stacking +4 Perseverance bonus to your Quivering Palm DC until you kill an enemy with Quivering Palm (or 3 minutes pass)."

Am I wrong in thinking that QP is a tactical/combat ability? The wiki (http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_feat) seems to indicate it is and I always thought it was. Key comment, "Tactical feats, or Combat feats are feats that correspond to melee special attacks require a DC check success." If this is still true then it will still receive the bonus from Legendary Tactics (+6) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Dreadnought), Dwarven Enhancement (+3) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Dwarf), Innate Ability in GMOF (+3) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Grandmaster_of_Flowers), Combat Mastery (+5) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Mastery), and all other tactical/combat affecting items.

As I say, this is all assuming that QP is a tactical/combat ability as it seems to be. So because the update simply says 'Sundering bonuses' will not apply that seems to me that only really applies to shattering items. So a loss of 8-11 DC for most players. So not as DOOOOooooOOoo00000m as it could be.

So is it a tactical/combat ability or not Mr. Developer?


EDIT:

QP is not a tactical feat,
not on lama, so nothing is added to it. No idea what it is on live. my monk is on a fighter life so.....
made a test on lama 18 monk 2 fighter.

fighter enhancement tactics- no
LD tactics - no
GMOF tactics - no (really)
Epic feat tactics- no
I did not check racial or fighter past lives, but doesn't look promising.
So it more than a -10 - 12 or so, its way more.

Teh Troll has also answered the question as did the testing on Lamm. So this begs the question why isn't it?

Teh_Troll
01-24-2014, 09:50 AM
So is it a tactical/combat ability or not Mr. Developer?

Not according to Player's Handbook.

PrimalConcreteSledge
01-24-2014, 10:18 AM
Just did an EE Tor with a QP Monk with mid-70s DC. Said he fails only when mobs roll a 20 on all EE content.

If this nerf is a -10 DC only, then I like it. If its actually the -27 DC that some are saying, then that is going way too far.

It's a simple rollback of a class back to a state in witch it was already considered one of the strongest classes.

brian14
01-24-2014, 10:27 AM
This is a wrong nerf.
Lvl15+ monks didn't need nerf.
lvl2-6 monk splashes do.
^^^^This

I do not mind the guy who spent his entire carrerr kicking in pajamas to be uber. I very much do mind when a guy in armor drastically improves his survivability by ditching armor and splashing two monk levels. Or when a guy with a bow drastically improves his DPS by splashing six monk levels.

LavidDynch
01-24-2014, 10:45 AM
It's a simple rollback of a class back to a state in witch it was already considered one of the strongest classes.

Try to say this 10 times without laughing. Maybe we should rollback barbarians to module 3, when they were almost powerfull.

Teh_Troll
01-24-2014, 10:50 AM
It's a simple rollback of a class back to a state in witch it was already considered one of the strongest classes.

Yup. It's a rollback of a buff that never should have been done int he first place.

SqueakofDoom
01-24-2014, 12:22 PM
I just wanted to let everyone know that surveys ('https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/414630-Surveys!?p=4979238#post4979238') for the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar ('https://d12.parature.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?type=web&deptID=24037&surveyID=316') and the Thunderholme Adventure Area ('https://d12.parature.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?type=web&deptID=24037&surveyID=317') are now available!

Flavilandile
01-24-2014, 12:46 PM
Please Squeak, can you check if the character copy tool works ?

It seems to be down.

Grosbeak07
01-24-2014, 12:47 PM
Also the DDO Store on Lama could use a kick in the pants.

slarden
01-24-2014, 12:53 PM
Please Squeak, can you check if the character copy tool works ?

It seems to be down.

This. I am not going to make a new character to try out the quest. I can't give accurate feedback since I have no experience on live with the new character.

barecm
01-24-2014, 02:12 PM
No mention of a fix to the shuriken portion of the ninja spy capstone?

Shorlong
01-24-2014, 02:36 PM
This. I am not going to make a new character to try out the quest. I can't give accurate feedback since I have no experience on live with the new character.

You can make an exact copy of your character in about 15-20 minutes. It's really NOT that big of a deal....

rest
01-24-2014, 03:05 PM
You can make an exact copy of your character in about 15-20 minutes. It's really NOT that big of a deal....

Including past lives and epic past lives? I must be slow at building characters.

Flavilandile
01-24-2014, 03:43 PM
You can make an exact copy of your character in about 15-20 minutes. It's really NOT that big of a deal....

With all the Items ( Epic something or other, Greensteel, ... ) ? come on.

Like rest I must have a problem, I haven't been able to find the seal/scrolls/shards and/or the altars


*nudge Squeak*

Any news of the Character Copy Tool ? Because if I can't copy characters there's basically no point for me to keep updating L-Space Client.

EDIT :
While we are at it, could you please explain us what is Akamai NetSession Interface, why it has to be installed in a sneaky way ( behind the splash screen ), what do you use it for and why it gets reinstalled automatically every time we uninstall it and restart the game client ? Oh and why it has to launch two instances taking each between 5 and 9 Mb of RAM ?

Since I have no idea that piece of software does and since it raised all the hell in my security settings I'm going to consider it as a 100% dangerous piece of code and just stop trying to reach L-Space.
I really hope you won't put that piece of malware on Live.

Singular
01-25-2014, 07:52 AM
Most of the update is good, but I'm concerned about two points:

- chest rerolls - 3 times? Really? You think this will help the game?
- Quiver of Poison - what? Why bind on acquire? It works fine w/bind on equip. I have had no issues with either of my Quivers.

die
01-25-2014, 12:04 PM
Very happy with what I am seeing in THunderholme, I had too roll a fvs put some cool gear on her. so she is not gimp. but still went through a lot of mana and I don't think I got very far by the time I got too the peak with the puzzle all those fury wolves had me I had no more mana we need shrines inhere I see 2 on the map but still unable to locate them. jLooks good keep up the hard work.

Qhualor
01-25-2014, 12:15 PM
You can make an exact copy of your character in about 15-20 minutes. It's really NOT that big of a deal....

it took you 20 minutes to replicate the same gear on Live and do all the TR and ER lives?

im not just wanting to see how a 1st life character can play in Haunted Halls even after spending time trying to get the same gear I have on Live and going through character creation. the whole point of character copy is so we don't have to go through the leveling and gearing process. if you want to play a drow, you have to unlock the favor or hit the "buy now" button. I would rather give a more thorough feedback on my experiences than to waste time starting fresh on a character that wont be anything like my Live characters.

Sonofmoradin
01-25-2014, 12:37 PM
Say hello to the most op level 2 spell in the game: Soundburst

62 DC cometfall still better though :) wonder if you can get soundburst to 62.

Shadow_Jumper
01-25-2014, 06:36 PM
More important is rogues getting a buff.

No. Rogues do not need a buff, rogues need people who can build rogues. Leave rogues out of the discussion, they have never been nerfed because they never needed to be, and they have never had any major upgrades, because they have never needed them.


Good point. It ain't always easy wading into melee on EE to deliver a QP.

Try Assassinate, yet somehow I still manage to run around EE and go sneak in the middle of a fight and kill mobs.

Qhualor
01-25-2014, 06:40 PM
No. Rogues do not need a buff, rogues need people who can build rogues. Leave rogues out of the discussion, they have never been nerfed because they never needed to be, and they have never had any major upgrades, because they have never needed them.



Try Assassinate, yet somehow I still manage to run around EE and go sneak in the middle of a fight and kill mobs.

Assassinate is on the nerf list right after quivering palm.

IBCrabin
01-26-2014, 12:54 PM
I am going to a Devil's advocate and say the U21 items should be no more powerful than the U19 items. i.e. spell power at 144, critical chance at 20% and enhancement at 10, etc.

Reasons being

1. The power creep will make the game easier than it is now for new and even more so for old content.
2. The older gear are almost useless. ( look at U19 random gen compared to the named item from before)
3. There will be a bigger gap in power between power gamer and casual gamer making the pug scene even worse than now
5. People are already soloing the new EE raid.
6. There need to be more emphasis for DC on items and not just spamming spells and cleaves.

When Pre U14 epic gear is epic, items had +15 tactics like dennith heavy chain with +15 Trip, Epic Brawn spirit with 20 intimidate. Post U14, Tactics is capped at 10 and 20 skill check is almost non existence on named items?

There should to be a plateau where power is similar among a bunch of quests, raids and items instead of regular power up with every update.

LucasMacKinnon
01-26-2014, 08:56 PM
Not counting the new expansion. I have a dwarf monk 18 fighter 2 with 3 fighter past lives. I sit in fire stance with +10 sunder wraps, es challenge cloak. not even wearing +11 wisdom item, or completionist, or yugo pots or ddo store pots with a 72 qp dc. If you take out all the tactical feat bonuses the combat feat bonuses, past life bonuses I will lose 27 to the qp dc. Now with that said. People talk about how great if a wizard could get that dc. or how it's a fair nerf. When you think about it. ok qp has a cool down of about 7 seconds, but here is the kicker. If you are spamming qp and stunning fist like a lot of monks do in EE content they burn through ki. If you have necro casters, shiradi casters or Monchers in the quest with you. You can't keep building up the ki fast enough even in fire stance to really be effective. you have to basically play a balancing act and pick and choose what to stun or try to qp. I would say instead of nerfing the entire dc. Why not double our cool down to say 15 seconds. I would be irritated of course. But would rather compromise something like that then to completely screw over people that spent a lot of time and effort to farm out gear, do the fighter lives, and grind out the wisdom tome. So what if a monk can qp trash mobs. it all depends on the group. i have been in quests where i couldn't even get a few stuns off because of casters. To me the high dc of qp was my ability in some quests to actually get a kill in. So Devs. Why not just get rid of all the melee classes since all it seems you want to do is make them laughable compared to the casters. That is to me what it feels like. Ohh a melee class can do 1 thing better then a caster. Well lets nerf it. I agree it's hard to run into the middle of a mob of enemies to qp one of them.

Ykt
01-26-2014, 09:26 PM
Well I guess my break from DDO is gonna last a few more months until they stop nerfing things and focus on fixing Known Issues.

maddmatt70
01-26-2014, 09:59 PM
I am going to a Devil's advocate and say the U21 items should be no more powerful than the U19 items. i.e. spell power at 144, critical chance at 20% and enhancement at 10, etc.

Reasons being

1. The power creep will make the game easier than it is now for new and even more so for old content.
2. The older gear are almost useless. ( look at U19 random gen compared to the named item from before)
3. There will be a bigger gap in power between power gamer and casual gamer making the pug scene even worse than now
5. People are already soloing the new EE raid.
6. There need to be more emphasis for DC on items and not just spamming spells and cleaves.

When Pre U14 epic gear is epic, items had +15 tactics like dennith heavy chain with +15 Trip, Epic Brawn spirit with 20 intimidate. Post U14, Tactics is capped at 10 and 20 skill check is almost non existence on named items?

There should to be a plateau where power is similar among a bunch of quests, raids and items instead of regular power up with every update.

Sounds like somebody who just wants DDO to become even more of a tr fest then it already is. Some of us actually want to have a reason to play at level 28 and spend most of our time there. We actually played update 19 and update 18 etc and the game has to keep growing and continuing otherwise why should people play it? You have not made a case why you think the gap will be greater between pugs and power gamers gear has grown? If anything the power of random loot such as deadly items I would say that currently there is less of a gap. I do not see why you think the gap would grow.

Xario
01-27-2014, 03:06 AM
I am for reduce cool down of QP instead DC.

6s cool down is insane. In Pen and Paper version QP have cool down one week :-o. If you reduce cool down of QP to 30s, it will be nice and working ability, which will not brake the game and monks will have enough time and ki to enjoy also stunning fist and another ki attack and finishers.

6s is stupid. Monks haven’t ki and time to use their large scale of ki attacks and only doing QP, while saying why to stun mob, if I can kill him, but I haven’t ki to do QP and stun and healing ki together. Reducing cool down also mostly will reduce monks dc of QP a bit, because player will not buff QP DC for every cost and will thing about investment for DC of ability with long cool down and so will focus more on Stunning fist again.

Lanhelin
01-27-2014, 05:53 AM
The patch notes do not list the Two Weapon Fighting bugfix for melee Wolf/Bear Druids. While many players want the bug to be wai because of increased dmg (mostly them who splashed Monk or Fighter), those Druids who didn't take the TWF feats still suffer from to-hit and dmg penalties while having eg. two scimitars equipped but fight in Animal Form. Especially with the new Eldritch Knight enhancement tree, there are more possibilities to build a melee Druid now who also needs various Spell Powers which are mainly found on Weapons, currently there are no random Shields or Light/Medium Armors for melee Casters. So the way to go actually is to equip a Robe and a Thaumaturgy Quarterstaff.

Furthermore the standard Animal attack is always the same one - but its attack speed varies depending on what kind of weapon is equipped. With Twohanders like Quarterstaffs attack speed is slower than with Wraps or S&B. But shouldn't the attack speed in Animal Form always be the same regardless of what weapon set is equipped?

I, and hopefully many others, would appreciate it when this is addressed in Update 21 too. Thank you.

krtkoo
01-27-2014, 06:25 AM
Hi,

devs, Turbine, Majmal, whoever is in charge of the crafting recipes in the game. First: I think I do understand why we have so many crafting systems in ddo. 1 type for shroud, 1 type for gianthold, 1 type for cannith chall., 1 type for LoD and MA, 1 type for madness chain, lormarch plaza, etc etc. the thing is, its already too much.

Really, no kidding. I have 1 char I play the most. I like to try different kind of builds, but I don’t like to grind items for them. So I end up with 1 build, he has about 20 heroic past lifes and coulpe epic PLs. the thing is, (except form lack of inventory space when I need to clean up my TR cache), I have about 10 full large ing bags and 1 almost full huge ing bag. I am well aware of the fact, that many ings in the bags are the same, so I could save some space in them. But its not funny to sit and move things from 1 bag to another, just because there are so many different ings. So I woul rly like to beg you Do not create another crafting system. Please.

Another thing you should consider in U21. Please reduce comm of valor needed for epic hearts and iconic hearts. 4200 is way too much. I use to run many different quests when lvling form 20 to 28 and I end up with about 1600-1800 comm of valor. I do not understand why I should buy xp potions (yes I do buy them), when I end up with capped char without the possibility to TR. I assure you, the number 2000 comms is enough for tr hearth. And not to mention the droprate – I mean why do I have to choose them from end reward? It means for me (and for many other players too), I have to choose comms everytime. So I lost 1 part of the game which I liked. I don’t even check items I could take, I just scroll down the reward list and take comms.

Please think about this.

Thx.

Raiderone
01-27-2014, 09:14 AM
The "nerf" or "fix"... I think is still heavy handed.

I would have just changed it from 1/2 Monk to full monk levels and 1/2 wisdom bonus.
It would also benefit investment into Monk levels more so then builds like a cleric 18/monk2... or any of the whateveer/6 monk levels

so would end up as 10 + Monk Levels + 1/2 Wisdom bonus + Extra's..

Gear, Feats, Sundering, Tactics, racial,.... should always be relevant in any build since it is part of the challenge of a build...

Stars aligned gear and buffs is the whole point.. if grinding out all the gear you listed and sacrificing feats/enhancements to focus on QP DC's does not give the build the edge it needs then the whole process is moot. QP will fall back into the void of worthlessness..


I am still surprised that 10k stars has not been addressed.
10kstars and Manyshot should share the exact same timer and cool down .. picking one should invalidate the other.

I disagree with changing QP based on monk levels or wisdom bonus. What about the folks that didn't bother adding sundering items for better DC's?

do 1/3 Sundering or 1/2 sundering or stacking 4 DC after fail but not 1/2 wisdom bonus modifier.

every class should be so lucky to have a version of killing blow attack...monks even get Vorpal Strikes...
vorpal strikes although heard not great should be available to all classes based on Str, Dex or Wis...

I play monks...matter of fact I play all classes. I like balance or at least trying for balance...keeping D&D in mind.

IBCrabin
01-27-2014, 07:16 PM
Sounds like somebody who just wants DDO to become even more of a tr fest then it already is. Some of us actually want to have a reason to play at level 28 and spend most of our time there. We actually played update 19 and update 18 etc and the game has to keep growing and continuing otherwise why should people play it? You have not made a case why you think the gap will be greater between pugs and power gamers gear has grown? If anything the power of random loot such as deadly items I would say that currently there is less of a gap. I do not see why you think the gap would grow.

The post was to suggest on slowing down the power creep of each update for the mentioned reasons. I did not explained nor was the intent of the post why there will be a bigger gap between casual and power gamer. The post was to look at the named loot of U21 not the random generated gear of U19.

The gap didn't shrink because of U19 random generated gear. What casual gamers have access to, power gamers have access to even easier. People can easily pick up a deadly 8 of resistance 8. A power gamer would go and find a deadly 10 of resistance 10 or similar with slot. This doesn't close the gap, just made them parallel in power creep.

The gap shrink because of the raider box and the bugs. If it wasn't for the raider box, would we be seeing so many monkcher running around with pinions? If it wasn't for the bag bug, would they be fully upgraded weapons so quickly? This is not to say some people didn't spent the time farming the gear, but these things make he balance of power much easier. How about all the globes and 138 spell power augment on AH/SE?

If there is too big of a power difference of named item from 1 update to the next that is within the level range of each other, the gap is created when power gamers pull away with new named/raid loot. Slowing down the power creep of items extend the shelf life of the more recent contents. This was the case with U19 when random gear came out making the giant hold epic gear almost obsolete. People were buying giant hold gear off AS only to have them all became useless in U19 with random gear being better than them. What happened if the new raid item somehow ended up being 40 base damage vs the 29 base damage on pinion? How is random generated with 20 base damage item going to close the gap to a 40 base damage raid item?

There are ways to make named items better without giving them over the top more attack / spell power. They can give them different modifiers like vulnerability, slowing mobs down when using cold spells, maybe +15 tactics, +20 skill, incite, healing amp, etc. etc. A few nice combination will make the item more attractive without killing off all the recent gears from the last couple updates.

On a side note: I would rather see more named armors, clothing and jewelery with stats like 15 stunning on glove, or 15 trip on boots.

With mobs bypassing 60% fortification, maybe this is the time they look at adding in augment for 130-140%,or gear with 150%+ fortification, higher PRR, more dodge %, and incorporeal for the sake of melee. Maybe this will provide a bit variation in the current flavor of the month than the caster and range focus builds.

Rather than power up range and caster toons, Make damage mitigation gear more easily accessible to help melee builds out.

I am not a TR junkie. I TR when I have an end game build I want to test.

ishr
01-28-2014, 08:22 AM
I think that rerolling a chest 3 times is within some degree of reason, however I have a few proposals.

Each successive reroll should cost more, for example: 12 AS, 18 AS, 27 AS (50% more each time). This would generate you lots of TP at minimal anger to the player base, who would largely understand that it should cost more to reroll more times.

Furthermore, raid chests should only be rerollable once. If someone completes a quest 5 times in U21, it would be like completing it 20 times pre-chest reroll, please give us a reason to keep coming back to raids. This is where the staying power will come from, esp with the release of the 3 new raids.

JOTMON
01-28-2014, 09:51 AM
I think that rerolling a chest 3 times is within some degree of reason, however I have a few proposals.

Each successive reroll should cost more, for example: 12 AS, 18 AS, 27 AS (50% more each time). This would generate you lots of TP at minimal anger to the player base, who would largely understand that it should cost more to reroll more times.

Furthermore, raid chests should only be rerollable once. If someone completes a quest 5 times in U21, it would be like completing it 20 times pre-chest reroll, please give us a reason to keep coming back to raids. This is where the staying power will come from, esp with the release of the 3 new raids.

Problem I see with chest re-rolls is that it allows the Programmers to lower the drop rate even lower under the guise that you have more opportunity to get named items you want from the chests.

Raid chests should not be re-rollable. period.. I would rather see endchest drop fragments be collectible to purchase named raid items.. or use Comm's..


and they still haven't addressed re-roll chest ransack.

elyssaria
01-29-2014, 09:41 AM
The patch notes do not list the Two Weapon Fighting bugfix for melee Wolf/Bear Druids. While many players want the bug to be wai because of increased dmg (mostly them who splashed Monk or Fighter), those Druids who didn't take the TWF feats still suffer from to-hit and dmg penalties while having eg. two scimitars equipped but fight in Animal Form. Especially with the new Eldritch Knight enhancement tree, there are more possibilities to build a melee Druid now who also needs various Spell Powers which are mainly found on Weapons, currently there are no random Shields or Light/Medium Armors for melee Casters. So the way to go actually is to equip a Robe and a Thaumaturgy Quarterstaff.

Furthermore the standard Animal attack is always the same one - but its attack speed varies depending on what kind of weapon is equipped. With Twohanders like Quarterstaffs attack speed is slower than with Wraps or S&B. But shouldn't the attack speed in Animal Form always be the same regardless of what weapon set is equipped?

I, and hopefully many others, would appreciate it when this is addressed in Update 21 too. Thank you.

To me it would be such idiotic move to "fix" Two Weapon Fighting "bug" as you mention. Since it actually gives a wolf/bear a reason to not always have to use a sword/board configuration. Otherwise you are more or less commited to use a shield as a melee druid..whereas DDO has always been a game where you have an option to choose your personal preference. To me it's not even a bug, it something that should have been there from the beginning.

I mean it's not like you see people complaining about "overpowered" melee druids :p Melee in general is weak, a fighter kensei with dual mourns are a way better powerhouse then a melee druid with or without the twf feats. There are other classes that are in need of "bug" fixes that you call them like *harkle harkle* Monkchers *harkle harkle*

/E

Propane
01-30-2014, 07:22 AM
Targets stunned by Soundburst are now considered helpless.

This has me intrigued.

.

I hope the Shout and Greater Shout get some love as well!

Shout - save at -2 or consider helpless 10 sec
Greater Shout - save at -4 or consider helpless 15 sec

or something...

svinja
02-02-2014, 12:16 PM
The QP nerf is a pretty bad idea. I have a QP monk and yes, things die almost every time from QP, even EE Stormhorns. It is a good character, I am not complaining.

However... Nerfing QP, and supposedly other death effects (that's what the patch notes suggest) is pretty ridiculous when none of the fotm builds rely on death effects, and for good reason. Fighter multiclass blitzers, furyshot archers, shiradi wizards all steamroll through trash more effectively than a QPer, or a necro wizard, or an assassin.

The fear of instakills that started in U9 has always been an exaggeration, but right now it is really pointless. Death effects by no means dominate the game, and none of them need any nerfs at all.

The suggested system for QP (keep failing and stacking a bonus until you succeed) is pointless when I can just stunning fist the mob and it will die from melee damage before I can QP it 3 times. The whole point of QP is to instantly kill, it costs way too much ki to spam multiple times per enemy. It would need to cost something like 10 ki for this system to be viable and I would still prefer the current system.

The person who invented this system probably doesn't play the game much and doesn't see how quickly some builds blow up trash without relying on instakills.

Another thing: the intolerant blows change. I kind of like it, but I would prefer if it wasn't a sacred bonus, but a different type... It is already bad that paladins have a 75% and a 100% threat increase ability in the same tree which don't stack with each other (I am assuming the 50% one stacks - but maybe it doesn't either), but even worse that the ED ability doesn't stack either... When it was 1000% it didn't matter as much. Or am I wrong, and these abilities stack?

Lanhelin
02-03-2014, 05:14 AM
To me it would be such idiotic move to "fix" Two Weapon Fighting "bug" as you mention. Since it actually gives a wolf/bear a reason to not always have to use a sword/board configuration. Otherwise you are more or less commited to use a shield as a melee druid..whereas DDO has always been a game where you have an option to choose your personal preference. To me it's not even a bug, it something that should have been there from the beginning.

Actually I feel limited in my personal preference right now. Because you have to take the TWF feat line if you do not want to suffer attack and damage penalties, even in Animal form (where it normally should not be valid). As melee Druid with Wizard EK splash it limits me on using S&B or a twohanded weapon. But for all the magical attacks two scepters or clubs or whatever would be better because of their properties. Mind that these weapons normally do not do any extra damage or have properties that could proc, they only push Spell Power, Spell Crit or DC, and so on. The Animal Form attack is a special attack that should not be influenced by TWF feats. Otherwise THF feats should be made working in Animal Form too. And Shield feats of course, because I also can block in Animal Form.

Or put some similar Enhancements in the NW Tree to grant more variety. And make these enhancements Str or Wis based. But leaving a melee feat line that requires Dex working in Animal Form should be fixed. The sooner, the better.

Shadow_Jumper
02-06-2014, 08:04 AM
Assassinate is on the nerf list right after quivering palm.

Yea, maybe they will get around to it sooner than other bugs or overpowered builds..... Because we all know melee OPness is what's causing the imbalance in the game right?