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legendkilleroll
01-21-2014, 11:42 AM
Hi

Ive been playing wolf druids alot recently, centered using handwraps, tier4 antipodes

I know you can get different sources of [w] to apply while using wraps and that it apparently doesnt apply to other weapons, now when i used a kama it was doing pretty much the same damage as a random pair of wraps, wraps had 3.5 [W] and the kama was GS

Im just a little confused here, is this because i can stay centered with kama and all the [W] applies, even tho it doesnt show?

appreciate any info :)

Rhaphael
01-22-2014, 02:49 AM
Hi

Ive been playing wolf druids alot recently, centered using handwraps, tier4 antipodes

I know you can get different sources of [w] to apply while using wraps and that it apparently doesnt apply to other weapons, now when i used a kama it was doing pretty much the same damage as a random pair of wraps, wraps had 3.5 [W] and the kama was GS

Im just a little confused here, is this because i can stay centered with kama and all the [W] applies, even tho it doesnt show?

appreciate any info :)
As I understood it, as long as you remain centered all the different [w] sources that apply to wraps also apply to other weapons. It's just the display that is bugged for all weapons but wraps.

Shaatan
01-22-2014, 03:41 AM
Hi

Ive been playing wolf druids alot recently, centered using handwraps, tier4 antipodes

I know you can get different sources of [w] to apply while using wraps and that it apparently doesnt apply to other weapons, now when i used a kama it was doing pretty much the same damage as a random pair of wraps, wraps had 3.5 [W] and the kama was GS

Im just a little confused here, is this because i can stay centered with kama and all the [W] applies, even tho it doesnt show?

appreciate any info :)

I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, but I think that the different [W] bonuses that apply to wraps, also apply to animal form regardless of what weapon you are using. This is because in animal form your attacks count as unarmed no matter what weapon you use. I'm not even 100% convinced that you need to be centered to get at least some of the bonuses (probably not a high chance that it works uncentered but worth testing I guess).

Lanhelin
01-22-2014, 04:49 AM
This is because in animal form your attacks count as unarmed no matter what weapon you use.

Regarding Attack Speed it's different. I tested it against the ship dummy in bear form (no Monk splash, no Wolf Attack Speed bonus) using wraps, then a quarterstaff and a sickle+shield. Quarterstaff Attacks were the slowest, Sickle and Wraps seemed to be faster at quite similar speed - but a few misses too. Also not all listed effects seem to be applied in Animal Form, eg. I used the Eternal Rest Wraps (with Ghost Touch) against Wraiths and Ghosts and pretty often got the "Incorporeal" instead of a dmg number shown above their heads. It's all pretty unclear to me what counts and what doesn't count. Eg. if it's true that all animal attacks count as unarmed then two equipped weapons shouldn't have an impact on miss chance or reduced damage from Offhand, but fighting with two scimitars was a no-go. If the attack really would count as unarmed attack, why do I get the penalties of using two "heavy" weapons? Is it because of the current bug that the TWF feats also are valid for animal forms? This should be fixed either this or that way asap.

Munkenmo
01-22-2014, 05:07 AM
I'm not 100% sure if this is correct, but I think that the different [W] bonuses that apply to wraps, also apply to animal form regardless of what weapon you are using. This is because in animal form your attacks count as unarmed no matter what weapon you use. I'm not even 100% convinced that you need to be centered to get at least some of the bonuses (probably not a high chance that it works uncentered but worth testing I guess).

When your using wraps on a monk splashed druid in animal form you get the extra +[w] from unarmed strike every 4monk levels.

If your using any other weapon in animal form, youll lose the unarmed strike die steps.

legendkilleroll
01-22-2014, 06:39 AM
When your using wraps on a monk splashed druid in animal form you get the extra +[w] from unarmed strike every 4monk levels.

If your using any other weapon in animal form, youll lose the unarmed strike die steps.

If you only have 2monk, is there no difference between 2 kama's or shortswords with NiS and wraps?

Munkenmo
01-22-2014, 08:58 AM
If you only have 2monk, is there no difference between 2 kama's or shortswords with NiS and wraps?

It would come down to which weapon has the best properties

Fwiw, I recommend most 2monk splashed animal druids use shortswords, esp for heroic trs

Shaatan
01-22-2014, 09:24 AM
When your using wraps on a monk splashed druid in animal form you get the extra +[w] from unarmed strike every 4monk levels.

If your using any other weapon in animal form, youll lose the unarmed strike die steps.

Empty Hand Mastery from Shintao adds to your [W] even if you are not using wraps, as long as you are in wolf form. The same for Improved Martial Arts, which is supposed to give +1[W] for wraps or +0,5[W] for other ki weapons. To my knowledge the +0,5[W] for other ki weapons was broken since the release of this feat, thus it would mean that it counts any weapons used in animal form as unarmed (unless they fixed this feat without me ever noticing). On the other hand the active monk past life feat doesn't seem to affect your damage in wolf form (I tested it with swords in wolf form, so it might be possible that it would work if you used wraps).

Munkenmo
01-22-2014, 09:30 AM
Empty Hand Mastery from Shintao adds to your [W] even if you are not using wraps, as long as you are in wolf form. The same for Improved Martial Arts, which is supposed to give +1[W] for wraps or +0,5[W] for other ki weapons. To my knowledge the +0,5[W] for other ki weapons was broken since the release of this feat, thus it would mean that it counts any weapons used in animal form as unarmed (unless they fixed this feat without me ever noticing). On the other hand the active monk past life feat doesn't seem to affect your damage in wolf form (I tested it with swords in wolf form, so it might be possible that it would work if you used wraps).

Improved martial arts got fixed around the time gh was epiced.

I was specifically talking about unarmed strikes +.5 w, i know the other effects work with weapons, I cant explain the why, or even the inconsistency. All I can say is, because Turbine.

legendkilleroll
01-22-2014, 09:39 AM
Thanks for info guys

I was thinking about trying your hybrid but the char doesn't have upgraded antipode like my current wolf, so thought having 2 weapons i could fit more things in, i put devotion in red slot but wouldn't have that available unless i got some random gen and id need stunning +10 also

Shaatan
01-22-2014, 09:40 AM
Improved martial arts got fixed around the time gh was epiced.

It was still not working for my Staffer not long ago (definitely later than around the release of epic gh). So, if it's working now, does it also work for bows if you have Zen Archery?


I was specifically talking about unarmed strikes +.5 w, i know the other effects work with weapons, I cant explain the why, or even the inconsistency. All I can say is, because Turbine.

They are very consistent in their inconsistency. :) I know what you meant, but I figured that OP might want to know that there are ways to increase the [W] in animal form even if you are not using wraps.

legendkilleroll
01-22-2014, 10:37 AM
I just wasn't really sure about it all lol

Just wanted to know if other centered weapons were viable in epics after reading something awhile back

Think maybe it was just the base [W] like 1.5 from gs that didn't carry into wolf, so u still have ways to improve but will always be behind wraps