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MrGommyBoy
01-19-2014, 09:01 PM
Exactly what the title says, I'm looking for a pure sorcerer EK build from scratch, I have no idea what I'm doing for it. I plan on doing a TWF build, unless that doesn't work for EK, also I am an elf and this is a re-do of a character that exists so I can't change that.

Failedlegend
01-19-2014, 09:23 PM
1. A Single Class Sorc can't get a High enough BAB to take GTWF

2. EK isn't worth spending more than a few pints in on the other hand Gish builds work just fine without it but it's highly recommended to work in a small splash (ie.Sorc18/Monk2)

If ur interested in having a Gish w/o EK I'll help further just let me know

BTW What race are u planning on?

cdbd3rd
01-19-2014, 09:48 PM
...

BTW What race are u planning on?

OP is already locked into Elf race. Apparently is a LR character.

Failedlegend
01-19-2014, 10:24 PM
OP is already locked into Elf race. Apparently is a LR character.

Oh dang I missed that...this is going to be more difficult I was gonna suggest a Con/Cha Based Dwarf...Elf can work though since they can get Dex to damage for Longswords, Rapiers, Scimitars, Falchions, and Shortbows and Longbows so either u could go AA (elf PrE) or TWF with Rapiers+Weapon Finesse.

OP a few questions

- What level is ur character currently

- Is this an LR or are u panning to change ur character midway without one (the latter rarely works)

- Are u set on using EK or is a effective Gish type build what ur looking for

- Is being single class the only option or do u want possible splash ideas.

- Are u planning to go into Epic or are u going to TR this at 20?

MrGommyBoy
01-20-2014, 04:41 PM
OP a few questions

- What level is ur character currently.

- Is this an LR or are u panning to change ur character midway without one (the latter rarely works)

- Are u set on using EK or is a effective Gish type build what ur looking for

- Is being single class the only option or do u want possible splash ideas.

- Are u planning to go into Epic or are u going to TR this at 20?


My Character is lvl 10.

Its an LR so i cant change race

I would prefer a main EK but a splashing in other things would work.

I am open to changing up to 2 levels i guess

I plan on TRing this guy

Failedlegend
01-20-2014, 08:22 PM
My Character is lvl 10.

Its an LR so i cant change race

I would prefer a main EK but a splashing in other things would work.

I am open to changing up to 2 levels i guess

I plan on TRing this guy

Sorc 10 I'm assuming

To clarify mi question was are u willing to NOT spend points in EK (or only a few points) as spend them more in ur racial and savant trees

If ur willing I'd recommenced 2 Paladin its a HUGE boost to survivability

At 20 or 28-30...this is VERY important because the only way I can suggest a TWF build is if u plan to play into epic levels as otherwise you will never be able to take GTWF.

MrGommyBoy
01-20-2014, 08:40 PM
I'd prefer to main in EK and not just splash in it although I would splash into other trees.

Failedlegend
01-20-2014, 11:40 PM
I'd prefer to main in EK and not just splash in it although I would splash into other trees.

What I'm tring to get across is that the EK is 90% a waste of time. Gish builds work great EK just has nothing to do with it.

Battlehawke
01-21-2014, 01:07 AM
Ran with a guy a few nights ago on an EE Tor. He was playing a EK 12Wiz/4Ftr/4Rog. 700ish HP in LD ED. Self Healing with Evasion. Said he could hit any EE chest or trap in game. We ripped through the mobs. I did not expect him to play well or be useful when he joined, but, man, he was very good. He was TWF....

I could see a 12 Sorc/6Ftr/2Pal or 12 Sorc/6Rgr/2Pal being pretty fun, especially a BF one.

MrGommyBoy
01-21-2014, 10:02 AM
What I'm tring to get across is that the EK is 90% a waste of time. Gish builds work great EK just has nothing to do with it.

I just looked up what gish meant, if you could link me to a build that would be great. if EK is really that bad then ok. I just always wanted to make a spellsword in DDO

Failedlegend
01-21-2014, 11:41 AM
Ran with a guy a few nights ago on an EE Tor. He was playing a EK 12Wiz/4Ftr/4Rog. 700ish HP in LD ED. Self Healing with Evasion. Said he could hit any EE chest or trap in game. We ripped through the mobs. I did not expect him to play well or be useful when he joined, but, man, he was very good. He was TWF....

I could see a 12 Sorc/6Ftr/2Pal or 12 Sorc/6Rgr/2Pal being pretty fun, especially a BF one.

None of what u mentioned is reliant on EK that's just a feature of the way he built his character...my Wizard12/Fighter6/Rogue2 did all of the above way before EK existed


I just looked up what gish meant, if you could link me to a build that would be great. if EK is really that bad then ok. I just always wanted to make a spellsword in DDO

I can help u out with that just gimme some time I'll roll up a Elven Sorc18/Pally2.

MrGommyBoy
01-21-2014, 12:09 PM
I forgot to say this is the toons second life so i have 34 points

dunklezhan
01-21-2014, 12:22 PM
I don't want to get into an argument with FL about this but... I dispute the definition of 'useless' when applied to EK. They are by no means the most powerful build, there are better options - and I'm not disputing that a gish build can be done as well or better without it, and probably more easily as the EK tree stands now. But EK does work, is very survivable, and is very flavoursome. If you want the best then I agree with FL, don't go EK. But I don't believe it's been out long enough to be so certain that its pointless, so I think you should try for yourself and decide.

However, I absolutely agree that (THF-wise anyway) it works best with a /2 splash of something that gives you enough BaB to get the top level feat. TWF I think it might struggle with only a shallow splash.

I am running a 12/8 wiz/THF fighter at the moment, and I took that deep a splash because even with THF I really felt I had to for all the feats I felt I needed to remain effective, and because my LR was a Horc and reliable self healing via anything but PM with my (real life) reflexes was completely out of the question.

And he IS effective, even now, at L23 in epics. Though epic hard is about as far as I'm comfortable with him (plus he's only 1st life, and does not have the gear I would like). But that's effective. middle of the kill count - generally ok in terms of deathcount though, which is also quite helpful to know I think.

So let me be clear: FL is correct that it is a weak PrE for what you get and how much it costs to get it and use it. But it is viable, at least as in my experience as a primary melee. Primary caster... no. Not my build, not unless you mean buffs. DCs are worthless, spell pool is worthless, spell damage is similarly a bit pointless except as auxilliary melee damage with the odd well placed AOE.

Failedlegend
01-21-2014, 12:35 PM
@Dunklez: Luckily EK is an enhancement tree so the OP can try it out and make his own conclusion but I'm tired of people attributing a Melee Wizards greatness to EK...all EK did was bring attention to the Gish style players like myself have been playing them for a long time starting with WF Wiz/Sorc Melees (see Tukaw), moving into PMs (see Wakut) and now with the initial enhancement pass there's a bunch of new ways to build them...Con Based Dwarves, Dex Based Elves, Sorc/Monk/Rogue Q-Staff Wielders it's just so unfortunate that EK is such a let down.

OP still working on the build I'm going to be making a TWF and a THF version so u can have an idea of what they look like.

dunklezhan
01-22-2014, 02:07 PM
@Dunklez: Luckily EK is an enhancement tree so the OP can try it out and make his own conclusion but I'm tired of people attributing a Melee Wizards greatness to EK.


Fortunately that's not me, as I don't think they're 'great'. I just think they're not awful.

MrGommyBoy
01-24-2014, 10:44 PM
Thanks for all your help guys, just waiting on the build to be done before I +3 LR my character

Failedlegend
01-25-2014, 11:45 AM
Thanks for all your help guys, just waiting on the build to be done before I +3 LR my character

Oh I'm sorry I could have sworn I posted it...now this isn't exactly optimal since Sorc is better off going THF due to lack of feats and Elves are better off going TWF for various reasons but twas what I was limited to.

Note: Lvl 21 only shown to demonstrate the earliest u can pick up GTWF


Elven Sorc18/Palli2

Str 12 (Needs +1 tome b4 LR)
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

Level Order: Sorc 1-10, Palli 11-12, Sorc 13-20

Skills: Concen, UMD

1 Maximize
3 Weapon Finesse
6 TWF
9 PA
12 ITWF
15 Cleave
18 Great Cleave
21 GTWF



Here's the THF version...same "not exactly optimal" clause applies


Elven Sorc18/Palli2

Str 16
Dex 10
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 18 (Lvl ups here)

Level Order: Sorc 1-10, Palli 11-12, Sorc 13-20

Skills: Concen, UMD

1 Extend
3 PA
6 Maximize
9 Empower
12 Cleave
15 Great Cleave
18 IC: Slashing