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View Full Version : Melee or SLA-nuker Cleric for solo? (With a hint of vindictiveness towards undead)



GrantAnderson
01-18-2014, 02:01 PM
I was thinking of a Cleric as a next life, or as a break from the present life. Said present life is a shuriken-wielding Monk (not yet high enough to use her triple-positive greensteel shuriken), so I'm feeling pretty vindictive towards undead (and particularly skeletons) at the moment, too, and the collection of spitefulness towards undead in Radiant Servant makes it pretty tempting.

Also pretty tempting (at least for low levels) are the DR 5/- in Warpriest, and the SLAs in Disciple.

If I'm going to be soloing (plus hireling) almost all of the time, am I better off with a melee-style Ameliorating Strike build or a SLA-style Disciple? (Thinking of investing heavily in Servant as well, even as far as Aura. The tier 5 on Disciple doesn't tempt me, though the Warpriest does - at a glance, it seems like 6 seconds of dual-wielded attacks on a vorp could toss out quite a lot of light damage, or is it limited somehow?)

I read that Ameliorating Strike procs twice as often from dual wielding - does that mean that a Drow shortsword, Host longsword or Undying Court scimitar build that leveraged the Warpriest and racial enhancements would be worthwhile? Or is the AP investment to get +8/+8 not worth it? Favoured weapon for Amaunator being the heavy mace, that doesn't seem that great for melee - which is a shame, because the Cha for cranking up turn attempts could have been quite nice with a PDK+longsword combo.

As far as Disciple goes, Morninglord seems okay for that. Not overly keen on the 'blunt instruments' line, but they do get some hate for undead with bonus turning levels/HD turned, some light spell power, and a nice heal.

None of the level 20 capstones call to me overmuch, so possibly a splash would be an option. I saw the Radiant Titan build, which looked interesting, though my goals are slightly different. I don't care about raidhealing, and I would like to be amazing solo. :)

So, I seek the Wisdom (*rimshot*) of the Cleric forum. Should I hit things, or zap them?

SirValentine
01-18-2014, 02:57 PM
So, I seek the Wisdom (*rimshot*) of the Cleric forum. Should I hit things, or zap them?

Whichever you find more fun, of course.

I'm currently leveling up as a Cleric, caster-style. And though I had and used the DD SLAs, it doesn't give you Sorc-type nukage. I supplemented with some crappy melee at low levels. (Once in higher levels, casting comes into it's own and melee abandoned by me.) If you just want to level up quickly, good melee will power you through levels, say, 1-10, quicker than SLAs. But I was willing to take low levels, quick anyway, a little bit slower, because now I'm having fun with Slay Living, Destruction, Blade Barrier, etc..

Anyway, to reiterate, either will work; what are your goals and your enjoyment?

GrantAnderson
01-18-2014, 03:33 PM
Whichever you find more fun, of course.

I'm currently leveling up as a Cleric, caster-style. And though I had and used the DD SLAs, it doesn't give you Sorc-type nukage. I supplemented with some crappy melee at low levels. (Once in higher levels, casting comes into it's own and melee abandoned by me.) If you just want to level up quickly, good melee will power you through levels, say, 1-10, quicker than SLAs. But I was willing to take low levels, quick anyway, a little bit slower, because now I'm having fun with Slay Living, Destruction, Blade Barrier, etc..

Anyway, to reiterate, either will work; what are your goals and your enjoyment?
I've enjoyed melee (Monk) to 28, casting (Archmage and Sorc) to 20, and I'm playing ranged now with my shuriken monk. I'm fairly style-agnostic, so if one were significantly stronger than the other, I'd probably go for that. If I went with the Morninglord option, that pushes me towards caster (both with its enhancement line and the starting at level 15, where, as you say, casting has come into its own).

I'd want to get to at least 20 eventually (or 28 for Morninglord) and TR.

Because of how much I solo, the ability to trap and open locks would be nice (let's say as far as being able to handle Hard DCs), but I suspect that might weaken me a little too much?

firemedium_jt
01-19-2014, 06:38 AM
I was thinking of a Cleric as a next life, or as a break from the present life. Said present life is a shuriken-wielding Monk (not yet high enough to use her triple-positive greensteel shuriken), so I'm feeling pretty vindictive towards undead (and particularly skeletons) at the moment, too, and the collection of spitefulness towards undead in Radiant Servant makes it pretty tempting.

Also pretty tempting (at least for low levels) are the DR 5/- in Warpriest, and the SLAs in Disciple.

If I'm going to be soloing (plus hireling) almost all of the time, am I better off with a melee-style Ameliorating Strike build or a SLA-style Disciple? (Thinking of investing heavily in Servant as well, even as far as Aura. The tier 5 on Disciple doesn't tempt me, though the Warpriest does - at a glance, it seems like 6 seconds of dual-wielded attacks on a vorp could toss out quite a lot of light damage, or is it limited somehow?)

I read that Ameliorating Strike procs twice as often from dual wielding - does that mean that a Drow shortsword, Host longsword or Undying Court scimitar build that leveraged the Warpriest and racial enhancements would be worthwhile? Or is the AP investment to get +8/+8 not worth it? Favoured weapon for Amaunator being the heavy mace, that doesn't seem that great for melee - which is a shame, because the Cha for cranking up turn attempts could have been quite nice with a PDK+longsword combo.

As far as Disciple goes, Morninglord seems okay for that. Not overly keen on the 'blunt instruments' line, but they do get some hate for undead with bonus turning levels/HD turned, some light spell power, and a nice heal.

None of the level 20 capstones call to me overmuch, so possibly a splash would be an option. I saw the Radiant Titan build, which looked interesting, though my goals are slightly different. I don't care about raidhealing, and I would like to be amazing solo. :)

So, I seek the Wisdom (*rimshot*) of the Cleric forum. Should I hit things, or zap them?


Both!

You can nuke with Empower and Maximize. Divine punishment. SLAs too. Now light power slas have a save so dc can matter but null doesnt need DC. You can get by with low DCs with some melee if you want. A mix of Ftr2 Wiz1 for feats.

You can melee too. Power Attack. Cleave. Improved Critical Slash. Human damage boost and Ftr1 haste. Done. Cleave gives you Momemtum Swing. Great Cleave and some Two hander feats. Spell Focus feat for some ED SF and a nice general mix. It is easy to build for nuking and melee. You will never nuke like a sorc or wiz but your melee makes up for it.

firemedium_jt
01-19-2014, 06:55 AM
I hate the new android os. It sucks. I cant edit.

Aura is nice
Amerlorating strike

Can all be fit in but you may have to give up Ameloriating for more DD and more SLAs. So it is how you want to mix.


Divine Power items to melee is my only click item I use alot. No need for.tier 5 WP.

If all you do is solo you might even be able to take more DD and drop Aura but I wouldnt. If you solo I would think melee is better but I dont solo much.

EllisDee37
01-19-2014, 08:39 AM
If all you do is solo you might even be able to take more DD and drop Aura but I wouldnt. If you solo I would think melee is better but I dont solo much.In the early levels probably, but the moment you get blade barrier melee is a distant second.

firemedium_jt
01-19-2014, 09:18 AM
In the early levels probably, but the moment you get blade barrier melee is a distant second.

Yeah a distant second if you are a pure cleric. Ftr1 melee builds keeps up with saved against BB. And I save mana using melee instead saving mana for boss fights. Ftr1 with Divine Power items PA and IC is decent melee. Then add Cleaves for 1w and 2w along with Ameloriating Smite for 2w and mass healing equals nice synergy.

Take a Paralyzer with cleaves on a mob and heroic is easy. Why bother with BB. Save the mana for later unless you zerg and get in over your head and smothered ;)

But then there is epic. If you run epic there is lots of evasion and reflex saves by mobs. BB gets expensive for a small return especially when Draconic energy burst does 3x the damage for a 1/3 the cost. Energy Drain is nice for Epic. No save. Just SR.

Heck epic elite is all about getting your saves up and reducing incoming damage. If he goes that far. Hence all the builds woth Pal2. But if u hang back and cast letting others pull aggro caster can work to and just Dot bosses.



One.thing about melee cleric is your damage against bosses can be higher and you spend less mana to do it. Caster Clerics seem to run out of mana before I do compared to my Melee Cleric.

GrantAnderson
01-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Yeah a distant second if you are a pure cleric. Ftr1 melee builds keeps up with saved against BB. And I save mana using melee instead saving mana for boss fights. Ftr1 with Divine Power items PA and IC is decent melee. Then add Cleaves for 1w and 2w along with Ameloriating Smite for 2w and mass healing equals nice synergy.

Take a Paralyzer with cleaves on a mob and heroic is easy. Why bother with BB. Save the mana for later unless you zerg and get in over your head and smothered ;)

But then there is epic. If you run epic there is lots of evasion and reflex saves by mobs. BB gets expensive for a small return especially when Draconic energy burst does 3x the damage for a 1/3 the cost. Energy Drain is nice for Epic. No save. Just SR.

Heck epic elite is all about getting your saves up and reducing incoming damage. If he goes that far. Hence all the builds woth Pal2. But if u hang back and cast letting others pull aggro caster can work to and just Dot bosses.



One.thing about melee cleric is your damage against bosses can be higher and you spend less mana to do it. Caster Clerics seem to run out of mana before I do compared to my Melee Cleric.

Thanks for the advice, everyone! I'm leaning towards melee now. If I go melee, I assume I aim for a Wisdom of 19 and push my melee attributes?

I've been looking around the forums a bit more, and I saw Valiance's Clr17/Mnk2/Rog1 solo build. He reckons that taking the Rogue level first, putting 4 points into the appropriate Rogue skills, and carrying the best +skill items possible, he could "do almost every trap in the game". (Is this still true? Or would I need to keep feeding cross-class points into Disable Device and/or Open Lock?) This led me to (crazy?) idea 1, a Drow Clr17/Mnk2/Rog1, two-weapon fighting with shortswords (taking the drow enhancements for +4 with shortswords and the warpriest ones for ditto), with 1 point in Ninja Spy to stay centered while doing so. Dual sunblades ought to wreck up undead in the early levels. Valiance's build had a very high AC, but was pre-AC-revamp, so I guess it would go for AC+dodge these days.

Other thoughts:
- a dwarf with axe or mace focus - I like the idea of a dwarf with a big smashy two-handed hammer wrecking up undead with cleave and great cleave, but I also like the idea of a dwarf with Carnifex and bonuses to make it even better :)
- a half-elf with two levels of Monk and Paladin dilettante to get evasion and nice saves, or vice versa to max out the healing amp

From the responses so far, it seems like it should be reasonably straightforward to make a Cleric that I can at least solo Hard on, so that's nice.

firemedium_jt
01-20-2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the advice, everyone! I'm leaning towards melee now. If I go melee, I assume I aim for a Wisdom of 19 and push my melee attributes?

I've been looking around the forums a bit more, and I saw Valiance's Clr17/Mnk2/Rog1 solo build. He reckons that taking the Rogue level first, putting 4 points into the appropriate Rogue skills, and carrying the best +skill items possible, he could "do almost every trap in the game". (Is this still true? Or would I need to keep feeding cross-class points into Disable Device and/or Open Lock?) This led me to (crazy?) idea 1, a Drow Clr17/Mnk2/Rog1, two-weapon fighting with shortswords (taking the drow enhancements for +4 with shortswords and the warpriest ones for ditto), with 1 point in Ninja Spy to stay centered while doing so. Dual sunblades ought to wreck up undead in the early levels. Valiance's build had a very high AC, but was pre-AC-revamp, so I guess it would go for AC+dodge these days.

Other thoughts:
- a dwarf with axe or mace focus - I like the idea of a dwarf with a big smashy two-handed hammer wrecking up undead with cleave and great cleave, but I also like the idea of a dwarf with Carnifex and bonuses to make it even better :)
- a half-elf with two levels of Monk and Paladin dilettante to get evasion and nice saves, or vice versa to max out the healing amp

From the responses so far, it seems like it should be reasonably straightforward to make a Cleric that I can at least solo Hard on, so that's nice.


If you are going melee I think Pal2 Ftr1 Human is the best if you can get your build pts up for CHR to 14 and get the Str to

Well with Rog you can dual wield Rapiers I think. Not sure if you really need Drow and might be more powerful with Human and human damge boost and healing amp. Human gets more skill pts but I think INT is cheaper on a Drow.

As long as you have CLR17 you can heal just fine. You can still nuke well and maybe squeeze in a SLA or extra spell from DD. If you think the original OP is more fun you can build for that too. Those levels look good for solo. Keep in mind you can buy Rogue hires l.

The half elf with mnk and pally dill for saves would be better for EE and good survivability