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harry-pancreas
01-14-2014, 02:37 PM
i'd like to see xp bonuses for not using shrines, like ransack. Let's say +2% xp if melees not use it, 3% for specialists +5% for casters. Maybe +2/3/5% per toon that didn't use the shrine.

Pugs could get heavy, though.

good idea, bad idea ?

Memnir
01-14-2014, 02:44 PM
Bad idea.

Qhualor
01-14-2014, 02:48 PM
Bad idea.

Monks never shrine and it would make them more P2W, eh Troll?

harry-pancreas
01-14-2014, 02:56 PM
Bad idea.

Monks never shrine and it would make them more P2W, eh Troll?

yes, that's the only problem i see with that.

BTW i think i gotta be more specific: I'm talking about rest shrines, because there is a point where "everyone" can raise with clickies, UMD, etc, etc(or self raise, hi monk!!!)
I think it could make grouping more desirable, maybe you can solo a quest with shrines, but not without shrining. Bringing a bunch of friends could be "worth" since you get more xp.

I think it would make healers more desirable too (they also wouldnt use shrines, but they healing capabilities are stronger than a self-suficient build, regarless how OP it is, IMO)



But i see it could bring some problems.

And it would be if no one in the group use a single shrine. If you get 6 people in a quest with 3 shrines, the bonus would be granted ONLY if those 6 persons do not use any of those 3 shrines.

And btw, i think xp is a lot and leveling is easy, is not about the xp. It's about a bigger reward for clever playing, opossed to the easy button powercreep.

Enoach
01-14-2014, 03:14 PM
I'm going to go with a bad idea...

Here is why:

1. It is another nail in PUG grouping - We already have seen the fallout on the "No Death" bonus (which still exists as I run into traumatized PUGers during my TRs)
2. While the bonus will keep track of shrine usage, what it will not track of:
2.a. Potion usage that would "Replace" shrining - making the bonus a potential p2w situation
2.b. Exits and returns after shrining - Potentially make it worth the "Re-buff" time. If the bonus for not using shrines is greater than the penalty for re-entry it could potentially be abused (I'm not saying the shrine outside/re-entry is not being used today, this just makes it even more expected)

I understood why the "No Death" bonus was initially added in, it was intended to preserve "Team cooperation", unfortunate outcome missed its mark in the general populace. This would effectually be a "No Shrine" bonus putting stress on people to either play a certain way or pony up $$ to not be pointed at for being a "NOOB" because they need to shrine.

Now if the intention was to curve the classes that benefit from resources that are recovered by resting (Wizard/Sorcerer etc.), in the end it would end up hurting other classes more.

edit: Also we already have a quest that rewards you for not using a shrine (Extra End Chest) "Lesson In Deception". Using either 2 shrines kills a caged person you are trying to rescue.

FranOhmsford
01-14-2014, 03:20 PM
Why the need to separate players?

This isn't Football {Soccer to you Americans} where Clubs only get to play those in their own league sans cup competitions!

This isn't Tennis where every player's ranked according to their last few competitions and how they compare to those competitions the previous year!


Heck DDO specifically steers clear of PvP so These Rankings just aren't necessary!


I have two friends who routinely ignore Shrines {half the time they don't even bother ship buffing etc.} and yes they do moan and ***** about me Ship Buffing or Running out of Mana BUT with your Suggestion I'd be causing them a Huge XP Penalty just by running with them {well NOT actually a Penalty just not a Bonus - They wouldn't see it that way though!


STOP with the MOAR DIFFICULTY = MOAR LOOT, XP, FAVOUR for crying out loud!

The Devs did something extremely wise when they made Epics NOT give More Favour than Heroics - I didn't understand this and have made threads and posts complaining about it - I take it ALL Back!

Any UBER Difficulty SHOULD give NO Loot that can't be got on so called "Lesser" Difficulties!
NO More XP!
NO More Favour!

In fact the ONLY thing it SHOULD Give you is PRIDE In your own Accomplishments!


P.S. If you want Permadeath go play Permadeath - There's Plenty of Guilds out there and many of them ignore Shrines!

Icywave
01-14-2014, 03:21 PM
Bad Idea

Plenty of xp available in game as it is.

harry-pancreas
01-15-2014, 08:01 AM
Bad Idea

Plenty of xp available in game as it is.

i agree, i said is not about the xp, i give a **** about the xp.

harry-pancreas
01-15-2014, 08:04 AM
Why the need to separate players?

This isn't Football {Soccer to you Americans} where Clubs only get to play those in their own league sans cup competitions!

This isn't Tennis where every player's ranked according to their last few competitions and how they compare to those competitions the previous year!


Heck DDO specifically steers clear of PvP so These Rankings just aren't necessary!


I have two friends who routinely ignore Shrines {half the time they don't even bother ship buffing etc.} and yes they do moan and ***** about me Ship Buffing or Running out of Mana BUT with your Suggestion I'd be causing them a Huge XP Penalty just by running with them {well NOT actually a Penalty just not a Bonus - They wouldn't see it that way though!


STOP with the MOAR DIFFICULTY = MOAR LOOT, XP, FAVOUR for crying out loud!

The Devs did something extremely wise when they made Epics NOT give More Favour than Heroics - I didn't understand this and have made threads and posts complaining about it - I take it ALL Back!

Any UBER Difficulty SHOULD give NO Loot that can't be got on so called "Lesser" Difficulties!
NO More XP!
NO More Favour!

In fact the ONLY thing it SHOULD Give you is PRIDE In your own Accomplishments!


P.S. If you want Permadeath go play Permadeath - There's Plenty of Guilds out there and many of them ignore Shrines!


first and most important of all you said: what the hell is SOCCER ? football ? ah yes, i know what's that, that awesome game where 11 players play against another 11 :P


so, more difficulty, no bigger reward...that's kind of unfair...maybe this particular idea is not good at all, for many reasons people pointed.

But friends whining, and saying a harder content or a harder way to do things should no give a bigger reward are strange reasons to say this is not a good idea :P

i like the fact that you need EE gear to do EE, and only way to get it is starting on EE "under-geared"

(let me point te fact that i don't usually play EE's, just did a quick peek in a few quests for now. And i'm not an elitist, nothing like that.)


And the intention was to actually get players toghether. Instead of playing an uber self healing build that's possible only by shrining, get another person to help you

If i'd want to play PD right now, i'd be playing PD. I'm relaxed and i don't like strict rules (for an MMO), if i wanna use the shrine, i do, if i don't, i don't, regarless the bonus. Just thought it would help people to actually think once in a while. Think before casting, think before using that heal spell for 50 damage because you're nexto the shrine, blah blah blah blah

harry-pancreas
01-15-2014, 08:17 AM
I'm going to go with a bad idea...

Here is why:

1. It is another nail in PUG grouping - We already have seen the fallout on the "No Death" bonus (which still exists as I run into traumatized PUGers during my TRs)
2. While the bonus will keep track of shrine usage, what it will not track of:
2.a. Potion usage that would "Replace" shrining - making the bonus a potential p2w situation
2.b. Exits and returns after shrining - Potentially make it worth the "Re-buff" time. If the bonus for not using shrines is greater than the penalty for re-entry it could potentially be abused (I'm not saying the shrine outside/re-entry is not being used today, this just makes it even more expected)

I understood why the "No Death" bonus was initially added in, it was intended to preserve "Team cooperation", unfortunate outcome missed its mark in the general populace. This would effectually be a "No Shrine" bonus putting stress on people to either play a certain way or pony up $$ to not be pointed at for being a "NOOB" because they need to shrine.

Now if the intention was to curve the classes that benefit from resources that are recovered by resting (Wizard/Sorcerer etc.), in the end it would end up hurting other classes more.

edit: Also we already have a quest that rewards you for not using a shrine (Extra End Chest) "Lesson In Deception". Using either 2 shrines kills a caged person you are trying to rescue.

1- True, pointed that. But, to be honest, there is plenty of people already getting stressed for not being "the noob", i know this type of bonus could make it worse, but people low self-streem is not my problem really. Grow up guys is a comp game (not for you enoach, just in general)

2- If you use pots to avoid using a shrine, is a valid strategy IMO. Again, if people p2w instead of using plat, not my problem. Buy 3 stacks of 100 pots at the vendor and you're fine. Everything can be turned into p2w

3- The exit and return exploit it's easy to fix. Make the "not shrined" bonus lower than the reentry penalty. My numbers were pulled out from nowhere, it could be lower.

And i remember that quest in wheloon. You have one in shavarath too where you can get, or not, a shrine. I think not geting it gives xp (rescue those guys tied there). The quest is genesis point i think. But they're more like the exception then the rule, right ?

And the intention is to big a reward to people that play clever and avoid easily recharging everything. Don't think wizard or sorc need a nerf, no curve, i think it would be a "group challenge" to say "ok we're not shrining, let's see how it goes". Lot are thinking this would be easier with melees, monks, cheesy builds, but lot of those builds use clickies or abilities that are quickly depleted (i.e displacement clickies from GS items)


I understand it's really hard to implement and people always find a way to cheat or be rude with no reason...but we have that problem already :P


Thanks everyone for the freedback and for keeping it calm though, it seems it is a bad idea indeed in the current state of the game

I had another idea, using ship buffs giving xp penalty instead of moar...but i don't feel like getting all the forum rage on me (oops i said it, didn't i ?)