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Joseph
01-13-2014, 05:35 AM
Returning player, just noticing that there seems no real 'real' reason to go pure anymore other than flavor. So, I was wondering if there are any reasons I should not cross class my artificer into rogue as well (I would LR into Rogue 1, and the rest Arti / Rogue as needed).

Artificer: Insightful Strikes (http://ddowiki.com/page/Insightful_Strikes) = Int modifier added to HIT (30 INT = +10)
Mechanic (L6 Rogue): Targeting Sights (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enhancements) = Int modifier added to DAMAGE (30 INT = +10)

Adding evasion and the +INT to damage on every shot I fire from my heavy repeater seems to trump the top two Battle Engineer enhancements = plus if I wanted to, I could just add in most of the Mechanic + Crossbow Training feats as well (doubling up on the Arti feats).

At the end of the day, assuming I took all of the Crossbow Training feats from both trees, I could really put out the damage. Assuming that Targeting Sights stacks with Insightful Damage, I would be able to put out even more damage (have to test that later today).

Any reason why this is a bad idea? Do I lose something that great from Arti? Been a way a while, so tips and pointers are much appreciated. Thanks :)

(updated Targeting Sights to L6 - thanks Hjarki for catching that)

sgz
01-13-2014, 09:45 AM
Any reason why this is a bad idea? Do I lose something that great from Arti? Been a way a while, so tips and pointers are much appreciated. Thanks :)

The main thing you would lose are the higher level spells from the Artificer base and higher damage from Rune Arms.

Art6/Rog6/xxx8 is a semi-common TR levelling base, leveraging INT for skills, attack and damage so it works very well.

Myrddinman
01-13-2014, 10:34 AM
I came to the same conclusion as the OP and made my 3rd life Artificer a 10 Rogue/6 Ranger/4 Artificer as a Repeater Beast...bear with me :)

10 Rogue:
- Decent SA
- Improved Evasion
- Improved Uncanny Dodge
- Intelligence to Repeater damage
- Great Trapping skills
- Tons of Skill Points
- UMD

6 Ranger:
- Most ranged feats (only needing PBS, IPS, and IC: Ranged)
- Sniper Shot, Leg Shot, Aimed Shot, Head Shot, Inferno Shot, and Improved Archer's Focus, and Thrill of the Hunt (all work with Repeaters)
- Manyshot (hey, who doesn't have a Pinion now...well I don't on this character, as Needle was more important)

4 Artificer:
- Bonus feat
- Insightful Strikes (short duration, but plenty of SP's to recast as needed)
- Endless Fusilade
- Repair Light (Warforged, and with good Repair Spellpower, I can crit for about 45)
- Elemental Weapons
- Rune Arm: supplemental elemental damage, craftable, and various other bonuses depending on item

Playstyle is a little challenging at first, trying to coordinate all the different active shots and reloading. But once you get it down it is a ton of fun :)

unbongwah
01-13-2014, 10:51 AM
Art6/Rog6/xxx8 is a semi-common TR levelling base, leveraging INT for skills, attack and damage so it works very well.
Pre-U19, Arty 6 was for Endless Fusilade; however, that's now available at arty 4 (T4 Battle Engineer). Nowadays arty 6 only gets you a slight bump in SPs, Artificer Knowledge, and lvl 3 spells like Addy Weaps & Flame Turret: not bad, but not must-haves either.

Hjarki
01-18-2014, 10:19 AM
Pre-U19, Arty 6 was for Endless Fusilade; however, that's now available at arty 4 (T4 Battle Engineer).

Is Endless Fusilade worthwhile? In my handwavey-don't-want-to-do-the-math fashion, it looks like about a 100% boost to damage for 6 sec out of every 30 sec consuming an action boost. In various Rogue/Ranger trees, you could get 30% damage/haste for 20 sec out of every 30 sec consuming an action boost.

100% * 20% uptime = 30% * 66% uptime.

While there's something to be said for burst, I'm not sure Endless Fusilade really qualifies in this sense.

Myrddinman
01-18-2014, 09:01 PM
Is Endless Fusilade worthwhile? In my handwavey-don't-want-to-do-the-math fashion, it looks like about a 100% boost to damage for 6 sec out of every 30 sec consuming an action boost. In various Rogue/Ranger trees, you could get 30% damage/haste for 20 sec out of every 30 sec consuming an action boost.

100% * 20% uptime = 30% * 66% uptime.

While there's something to be said for burst, I'm not sure Endless Fusilade really qualifies in this sense.

I'm not too solid on the real crunchy math bits, but for me it was worth it on my build...took 4 levels of Artificer to open it up. One thing to remember, when compared to Haste Boost, you do not have to reload when using EF.

It also depends on what else you have going on in your build, and whether you can spare 22 AP's for it. It was tight on my 10 Rogue/6 Ranger/4 Artificer build, but I was able to squeeze it in, and I built to 20 AP's in the Battle Engineer tree (opening the 4th tier) by spending points for extra Action Boosts, Damage Boost, and Field Engineer.

I'm sure Unbongwah can provide some good numbers as to whether it's worth it or not.

arcattaii
01-19-2014, 12:46 AM
In my opinion, 12/6/2 is a better choice.

To-hit is not a big issue for such a build, becauce you will need a decent base DEX for Improved Precise Shot feat and Improved Sneak Attack feat(epic feat, require 12 rogue level and 21 base DEX)

Also, 22APs for Endless Fusilade cost too much, although it's a great enhancement, but I won't spend so many APs for it, not to mention it has a very long animation to trigger. The other 20APs spent in that tree will only give you 2 Repeating Crossbow damage, 1 Seeker and 1-2 extra boost, nothing more.

I suggest you spend more APs in Deepwood Stalker tree, if you are an Elf or Sun-elf, you will find your sneak attack range and point blank shot range is amazingly far. Merciful Shot in this tree is also a great ability for low HP mobs.

Myrddinman
01-22-2014, 05:56 PM
In my opinion, 12/6/2 is a better choice.

To-hit is not a big issue for such a build, becauce you will need a decent base DEX for Improved Precise Shot feat and Improved Sneak Attack feat(epic feat, require 12 rogue level and 21 base DEX)

Also, 22APs for Endless Fusilade cost too much, although it's a great enhancement, but I won't spend so many APs for it, not to mention it has a very long animation to trigger. The other 20APs spent in that tree will only give you 2 Repeating Crossbow damage, 1 Seeker and 1-2 extra boost, nothing more.

I suggest you spend more APs in Deepwood Stalker tree, if you are an Elf or Sun-elf, you will find your sneak attack range and point blank shot range is amazingly far. Merciful Shot in this tree is also a great ability for low HP mobs.

12 Rogue for Improved SA is tempting, especially since it unlocks 22 AP's. You do loose a feat, but that's not a huge deal. I also am finding that EF bugs least 1/2 the time, with the volley stopping for a second or two after it starts; has anyone else seen this?

Man, now I have to buy another Lesser Heart :/

Singular
01-29-2014, 07:32 PM
EF is worth it in heroic levels - it basically kills most high hit point mobs and does very well on bosses.

In epic, I find I often forget to use it, though. Especially in EE, the pause before the shooting starts is difficult to deal with.