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Scrag
01-09-2014, 10:24 AM
Ok, so this might seem utterly bizare, but I'm contemplating a henshin/ek/bladeforged 2fighter/5wiz/13monk....

It would be thf/ithf/gthf monk with 14 points bladeforged, 40 points ek, 26 points henshin. It puts me at +60 force spell power (20 univ from core ek (40 points in ek), 20 force from 3 core, 20 fire/force from core 4 henshin), which is used to boost ek force cleaves. You also get +40 fire spell power (20 fire from core 4 hensh, 20 fire from core ek).When meditation is maxed out, its another +30 force/fire spell power for+90 (for a brief time) force, +60 fire spell power, 10% insight to hit, 20% insight to damage. Since staves are ki and "martial arts" weapons, you get your full centered attack _bonus_, +full bab from tensers. Since you are bladeforged, you get full recon, and some decent equip to boost your +repair. You also get repair as a class skill for fighter and wizard, which while not great, helps some. You also pick up grand master at 18, since you get master for free at monk 12 (which comes at 18). It comes with 4 bonus stats from enh. Suggested leveling is

1 fighter
1 wiz
6 monk
4 wiz
7 monk
1 fighter

Feats would be
pa (1)
cleave (1 (1)fighter bonus)
extend (2 wiz bonus)
dodge (3)
mobility (3 (1)monk bonus)
deflect arrows (4 (2) monk bonus)
great cleave (6)
thf (8 monk bonus)
ithf (9)
mental training (12)
improved crit (12)
spring attack (15)
grand master (18)
gthf (19 (2)fighter bonus)

enhancements would be
ap total |enh

henshin mystic
-----
4 (core 4)
2 staff1
1 mystic
2 tort
2 staff2
3 contemp
2 iron fists
4 candle
2 stat
2 meditation
2 stat
26 points total

eldritch knight
----
3 core
3 ma sla
3 tough
3 shield sla
3 arcane
3 crit acc
2 stat
3 critdam
2 stat
3 eleres
2 dblstr
1 tnsr
6 cleave
3 extradbl
40 total

bladeforged
----
1 core
4 repair
6 recon
3 gwap
14 bf


What do you guys think? I am not positive it has enough spell points to work, but between equipment, mental toughness, and 5 levels of wiz, it might cut it. Plus, all the bonus spellpower works on ki powered henshin special attacks....

Atomicmew need not put in their 100000000000000000000000000000000000000cents worth of "EK sucks".

TeacherSyn
01-09-2014, 01:51 PM
I'm far from experienced in multiclassing. But, as you might know already, metamagic feats will do nothing for any Mystic abilities or spell power. Magic is magic, ki is ki. I've got this from one reliable source but only one, so do your research on whether any of the Mystic levels will make a big difference if they can't gain anything out of spell power boosts other than their innate or equipment and implement bonuses.

giftie
01-09-2014, 02:17 PM
You do realize that Bladeforged start as paladins and not fighters?

Scrag
01-09-2014, 03:16 PM
I'm far from experienced in multiclassing. But, as you might know already, metamagic feats will do nothing for any Mystic abilities or spell power. Magic is magic, ki is ki. I've got this from one reliable source but only one, so do your research on whether any of the Mystic levels will make a big difference if they can't gain anything out of spell power boosts other than their innate or equipment and implement bonuses.

The mystic core attacks (incinerating wave, ki bolt) use spellpower as well. I am not terribly sure how the damage works out, but the save dc is (here) 10+13 (monk level) +wis mod for reflex for half, so it seems reasonable to get a halfway decent reflex dc.

I had totally forgotten the implement bonus, so thats another +15 or +18 universal spellpower from implement. Yay!

ki bolt does d6 fire (go fire spellpower!) and d4 force (go ek bonus force power!). The core 3 powers, cauldron, wave, and bolt, all benefit from spellpower (fire and force), as they are spell-like abilities and not ki attacks. Everything else monks get are called "ki melee abilities", like void strike (10d6 force, unaffected by force spellpower), none of which get a bonus from spellpower.

Both incinerating wave and ki bolt get damage per 2 monk levels, and 13 is 7 of these, so ki bolt is ~14d6 fire +14 (~100force/fire means +100% damage right? so is that 2d6 instead of d6, or 14d6 instead of 7d6?), and cheap/fast enough to fling a bunch out at double spell range to plink things

Incinerating wave does 5d6+7 fire and force damage every two seconds. That ends up as 10d6+14 damage (yay for large base dice to roll with!), or 44 damage average per 2 seconds.... Awesome!

re: bladeforged are palis.... I have a +20lr that I am going to burn from u19. :D

So I am not sure, but it seems like it could do pretty good. With 13 instead of 20 monk levels, I am losing 3d(4/6) ki bolt damage and a flat 3 fire/force damage from incinerating wave, but the extra force spellpower from ek should more than make up for it.

The extend is there for exclusively for rage, haste, sla magearmor, sla shield, and nightshield (hate them pesky magic missiles). Since spell points are at a premium, popping these at 50% increase instead of double cost for double length makes a big difference.

Consider tempest costs a painful 30 spellpoints, and eldritch stances eat 1 spellpoint per 6 seconds of active combat, which mounts up after a while. Thankfully you get spellpower boosted bolt/wave, and spellpower boosted eldritch cleave, tempest, and generic stance. Stance is only worth +d6 damage, but it makes cleave hit pretty hard.

I really think this is nifty, and really think I want to try this out. Its wonky for real, but gets tier 3 recon for self healing, tons of repair from fighter/wizard to boost cleaves and wave/bolt, fire/force spellpower from spellcraft, a reasonably large number of feats to meet thf melee needs and some dodge bonus, a tensers that affects absolutely nothing except for your periodic buff spells and none of which get bonus from spellpower.

I think the hugest problem with the build is a large lack of available spellpoints. :/

Rhysem
01-09-2014, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't burn a +20 to do that (unless you never plan on chain-TR'ing this character, then maybe okay).

I'd been contemplating something sort of similar, but I was looking at it as a sonkadin. SorcX-Monk(18-X)-Pal2. You'd have even worse MAD problems than most monks, but your saves would be nothing short of epic, the extra AC from the aura won't hurt. You lose the fighter feats you had, which could sort of hurt, but depending how heavy you went on the Sorc side, you could potentially be pushing stoneskin and similar around, plus the mage armor and shield EK SLAs will be a big help.

It is a cute concept, but I'm not sure how practical it would be in actual play. With some conc-op greensteel, it'd probably be great. Then again having watched a friend running a wiz-trapper type split in the heroic levels with conc-op and a greensteel greatsword, the monk and paladin levels are really not needed. He didn't bother to pale master, he'd just wade in with a greatsword and stoneskin and beat things down that way.

Scrag
01-10-2014, 07:26 AM
I wouldn't burn a +20 to do that (unless you never plan on chain-TR'ing this character, then maybe okay).

I'd been contemplating something sort of similar, but I was looking at it as a sonkadin. SorcX-Monk(18-X)-Pal2. You'd have even worse MAD problems than most monks, but your saves would be nothing short of epic, the extra AC from the aura won't hurt. You lose the fighter feats you had, which could sort of hurt, but depending how heavy you went on the Sorc side, you could potentially be pushing stoneskin and similar around, plus the mage armor and shield EK SLAs will be a big help.

It is a cute concept, but I'm not sure how practical it would be in actual play. With some conc-op greensteel, it'd probably be great. Then again having watched a friend running a wiz-trapper type split in the heroic levels with conc-op and a greensteel greatsword, the monk and paladin levels are really not needed. He didn't bother to pale master, he'd just wade in with a greatsword and stoneskin and beat things down that way.

I burnt the +20 to do this. Turns out, I didnt understand how lrs work, or I would have thought twice. In any case.... I now have to burn a store bought +5 heart as well. -_-. However, I am nonetheless very excited about this and happy to have decided to go forward with it. I have everything I need to craft a conc-op item and a greensteel staff, and already have what I need to craft a bloody shadow staff (I horde like a mofo).

What staff do you guys recommend to go with this weird combo? My plan is bloody shadowstaff/greensteel something -> villagers staff -> sireth (I have my box from u20).

Also, what position do you recommend my conop item go in considering I will be using existing bladeforged equipment, since it covers pretty much everything I need but spellpoints?

Dexraven
01-10-2014, 08:42 AM
You do realize that Bladeforged start as paladins and not fighters?

But with a +1 lesser rez the get a whole lot less Paladiny

TeacherSyn
01-10-2014, 08:57 AM
The mystic core attacks (incinerating wave, ki bolt) use spellpower as well. I am not terribly sure how the damage works out, but the save dc is (here) 10+13 (monk level) +wis mod for reflex for half, so it seems reasonable to get a halfway decent reflex dc.

I had totally forgotten the implement bonus, so thats another +15 or +18 universal spellpower from implement. Yay!

ki bolt does d6 fire (go fire spellpower!) and d4 force (go ek bonus force power!). The core 3 powers, cauldron, wave, and bolt, all benefit from spellpower (fire and force), as they are spell-like abilities and not ki attacks. Everything else monks get are called "ki melee abilities", like void strike (10d6 force, unaffected by force spellpower), none of which get a bonus from spellpower.

Both incinerating wave and ki bolt get damage per 2 monk levels, and 13 is 7 of these, so ki bolt is ~14d6 fire +14 (~100force/fire means +100% damage right? so is that 2d6 instead of d6, or 14d6 instead of 7d6?), and cheap/fast enough to fling a bunch out at double spell range to plink things

Incinerating wave does 5d6+7 fire and force damage every two seconds. That ends up as 10d6+14 damage (yay for large base dice to roll with!), or 44 damage average per 2 seconds.... Awesome!

re: bladeforged are palis.... I have a +20lr that I am going to burn from u19. :D

So I am not sure, but it seems like it could do pretty good. With 13 instead of 20 monk levels, I am losing 3d(4/6) ki bolt damage and a flat 3 fire/force damage from incinerating wave, but the extra force spellpower from ek should more than make up for it.

The extend is there for exclusively for rage, haste, sla magearmor, sla shield, and nightshield (hate them pesky magic missiles). Since spell points are at a premium, popping these at 50% increase instead of double cost for double length makes a big difference.

Consider tempest costs a painful 30 spellpoints, and eldritch stances eat 1 spellpoint per 6 seconds of active combat, which mounts up after a while. Thankfully you get spellpower boosted bolt/wave, and spellpower boosted eldritch cleave, tempest, and generic stance. Stance is only worth +d6 damage, but it makes cleave hit pretty hard.

I really think this is nifty, and really think I want to try this out. Its wonky for real, but gets tier 3 recon for self healing, tons of repair from fighter/wizard to boost cleaves and wave/bolt, fire/force spellpower from spellcraft, a reasonably large number of feats to meet thf melee needs and some dodge bonus, a tensers that affects absolutely nothing except for your periodic buff spells and none of which get bonus from spellpower.

I think the hugest problem with the build is a large lack of available spellpoints. :/

Despite a lack of metamagics, I'm able to get spell power close to the 175 range or better for Fire and Force on my pure Mystic. When dealing with fire-immune mobs, I'll change into gear to increase Force damage. The Mystic's innate spell criticals don't hurt, either.

The Mystic's advantage is that ki is renewable. I can spam its various ki attacks and recharge as I fight indefinitely, while others fight to keep their spell points up to do what they need. So while a Mystic's attacks aren't quite as powerful, they can be used far more often.

Scrag
01-10-2014, 09:43 AM
Despite a lack of metamagics, I'm able to get spell power close to the 175 range or better for Fire and Force on my pure Mystic. When dealing with fire-immune mobs, I'll change into gear to increase Force damage. The Mystic's innate spell criticals don't hurt, either.

The Mystic's advantage is that ki is renewable. I can spam its various ki attacks and recharge as I fight indefinitely, while others fight to keep their spell points up to do what they need. So while a Mystic's attacks aren't quite as powerful, they can be used far more often.

What level equipment to get 175? How are you generating that much spellpower?

edit: Since I have to wait 3 days to finish my char, how do you recommend me setting my stats? I have like +2 tomes in everything, which isnt great. Based on my feat list above, and considering that I have -2 to dex and wis?, how do you assign the stats? 16 str, 16 con 13 dex (to get dodge/mob at level 3), and then what?

Scrag
01-14-2014, 07:00 AM
So, it works. I can smash through at level elite quests with ease on heroic. I did run into a problem killing the last boss of one quest, but I am not sure what I could have done better there.

I need different equipment. -_- Starter bladeforged equipment just doesnt cut it here.

Also, the -2 to wis is really really painful. Ki attacks are monk level + wismod + 20 for reflex is really low reflex when you have a 14 wis and only 10 levels of monk at 15. Thats a reflex of 22, sigh.

I do have enough spellpoints to run from shrine to shrine, and I can multi-cleave/iron fist my way through pretty much any mob. The one major downside is that while I can run rage pretty much all the time with extend, I can't run haste since it is 1 minute per 30 spell points and exceptionally expensive.

The eldritch tempest multicleaves for ~200 to everything in area, and WAY more for anything vuln to force, Standard eldritch strikes hit for ~70-90 to everything in the area.

My staff is a spellcasters stick, with devotion 72, force 72, potency 50, force crit 15%, 1.5d6, so by itself its pretty fricking amazing. I would prefer an actual combat stick, but again, I am running off of straight bladeforged equipment at the moment.

Suggestions for equipment would be highly appreciated.