PDA

View Full Version : Let's Talk About Update 21 XP Changes



Pages : 1 [2]

arkonas
01-09-2014, 03:43 PM
Zerg is an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT in TWO Quests that I know of in this Game: Offering of Blood and Prey on the Hunter!

Where I ask is Flower-Sniffing an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT?

Shouldn't there be Quests for Everyone?


Hey I get it - I understand that when you're under Time Restraints you want to be Able to move fast.
BUT
3 Hella Pro/Tribe Zerg Veterans each doing a Tower take How Long to complete Wiz King exactly?
3 Hella Pro/Tribe Zerg Veterans doing each Tower Together take How Long to complete Wiz King?

IF The second is less than 3 times the Duration of the first then I refer you back to my Previous Posts:

Where I stated that Optional XP should be Boosted so as to Make Running the Quest ONCE with Full Optionals etc. MORE XP than Running it twice as Fast as Possible!


Heck I'd be surprised if 3-6 players like yourself couldn't run Wiz King as a Group with ALL Opts, Ransack, Conquest and Ingenious in Less than 25 Minutes!

Just because you can currently do it in 10 by Splitting Up doesn't mean that's a GOOD thing for the Game!


P.S. The meaning of "Zerg" seems to be Fluid and has changed Plenty in the 3.5 years I've been playing DDO {My FIRST and ONLY MMO!} - Just like the Meaning of BYOH changes depending on who you ask.

The meaning of Flower Sniffing however is Quite obvious and ALWAYS Quite Plainly FALSE and DEROGATORY!


I'd have No issues with Zerging/Zergers if they weren't so obviously also Elitists!

Zerg/BYOH/Solo a Tower and all that it represents is the Issue.
NOT
I want to run this quest as fast as I/We Can!


Last Night I put up a couple of LFMs on Cannith I honestly thought would NEVER Fill!

1) GH Fast Slayers {Major Pot in use} - First person joined as I started on Fist {asked him to run Eye}, Group was Full by the time I got to Heart - 10 Minutes to Fill!

2) Orchard Slayers - Full Clearance NOT Resetting Instance - One person joined while I was still on Airship, Cleared Fleahmakers to GoP, Thru Tunnel and down to Vol and Group was FULL!
20 mins to Fill!


Also BEFORE I ran these Slayers on Pots I did a GH Cabal, PoP, Madstone, Tor run Elite BB - And two very famous Cannithites Joined - One Proceeded to run to the top of PoP and Solo Half of the Rooms while I and another Player did Fire and Air Rooms.
The Other who having entered PoP as we completed Proceeded to Massacre Madstone before leaving Group Happy!
The First then Massacred Tor while I tried in Vain to Simply keep up!

Heck I didn't mind - I was in a rush myself as it's getting closer and closer to the twelfth and the Cut-Off Point for FREE Epic Hearts BUT Did those two people actually make those quests easier for myself or the other guy?

NOPE!

I was forced to go to my Bow in Fire {On a Tempest!} as the Other Guy insisted on doing the Lever {My Hireling - That would have done the lever - died of course within 5 seconds of Fight Starting.

In Air I put the Hire on the Lever again and me and the other guy did it {Myself still using the Bow of the Elements {AIR!}} BUT would that have been easier with the WF Wizard in there with us - HECK YEAH!!!

In Madstone - WF Wizard DIDN'T INVIS THE GIANTS!
Me and the Other guy were left on 1st Crystal - A Tempest using a Bow to keep aggro off Giant and a Melee Monk - NO AoEs or CC!
Second Crystal was done BEFORE FIRST!!

Tor - Lol - Was Finished Fast and Easy BUT is Frankly ALWAYS Finished Fast and Easy!


I've got the greatest Respect for those two guys for their ability to Play this game and would gladly run with either of them again.
I'm also happy to run with the Monk again despite his/her cowardice in PoP!
And Yes I died Myself in Tor - Was left Fighting a Multitude of Giant Casters!

BUT

Did my LFM say Zerg, Byoh, Be Self Sufficient or ANYTHING of that Ilk?

**** NO!

Do my LFMs EVER Say anything of that Ilk?

ONCE on Molineux - His FvS Life - Lords of Dust - I put Elite BB BYOH {Euurgh I feel Dirty!} because I KNEW He wasn't Heal Capable and Didn't want to give people any illusions about the fact that he was a MELEE Build!
Group was Full in NO TIME!

Would I put BYOH on an LFM in Future?

NOPE!

Molineux will be Off his FvS life soon enough {already at 20 and just waiting for a Heart} and Every One of my other Divine Toons IS and WILL ALWAYS BE Group Heal Capable!

did you ask the wizard to invis the giants? why didn't you invis them? why use a bow? you could of melee as well. ok so you use a bow of elements air in the air room. you chose that not him. why complain about it? you could of told them to let my hire do it or park your hire. now if you didn't put anything in the lfm either you should of said something if you didn't like him going that fast. communication works both ways. sure he could of probably did stuff too to help out.

as for wiz king you do realize if there is 6 people that is 2 to each tower. that isnt soloing really. its breaking up into smaller parties. ok if its not your thing don't join them. just do your own lfm or solo. why do you care what they do? i don't get that. just ignore them. they don't effect you. to get ransack and conquest you need to do a lot to get it. so to some people its not worth the time. it means falling into every pit to break stuff. not everyone wants to do that.

So play your way and others will play their way. don't worry. if someone is ruining your game experience speak up in group with them or if your the leader boot them. taking them on more then one quest and then complain about everything they did isn't going to earn ya any sympathy.

arkonas
01-09-2014, 03:47 PM
Hey...If people were Farming Shadow Crypt or Von 3 on lvl 16s with the requisite XP Penalty that goes with such I'd agree with you.

Or if they were Farming Wiz King on Lvl 19s with the same XP Penalty!

But they're NOT

They're Farming them on lvl 11s and 12s!

You try getting a Group for Shadow Crypt if you're Lvl 13 or Higher {A Pug Group NOT Some Friends/Guildies/Chat Channel of Your Choice Members!}.


Yes the Power Creep Effect of Greensteel + TR has to be taken into Account.
BUT
So does the Fact that All 3 of these quests were Originally Envisioned as End-Game!
Heck VoN and Sands were Both made Epic!

The Fact is though that the Devs when they made those quests Epic did NOT go back and Re-do their Heroic XP to fit in with where they now were in the game as they should have done!


Shadow Crypt is Even Worse!
The Necropolis has Never even been considered for Epicification {Not Even Orchard/Abbot which Practically Screams "Epic Me"}!
Yet Still Shadow Crypt retains it's Stupidly High BASE XP!

Compare it to Raids like Tempest Spine or Vault of Night and it STILL Comes out favourably!

Does this ^ Make ANY Sense to you?


Shadow Crypt ISN'T a Raid!
It Isn't even a Particularly tough Quest so long as you have One person in group who knows about the DDOWiki!

I Even went as far as to suggest a 1st time per Account Bonus for Quests like Shadow Crypt where the 1st Completion time is Likely to be In the Hours! IF you Complete at all!
And this Bonus {If I had My Way} Would NOT Require the Completion time to be that Long - It would be a SET BONUS for 1st Time Per Account!
So if your 1st Shadow Crypt run was in a Zerg Group that let you Pike at the Altar you'd Get the Super High XP BUT you wouldn't have learned the quest and would therefore have the possibility of a Super Long run on your Alt or your 2nd Life for Much Less XP!


Quest XP {and Lvl Ranges} Really should have been changed as the game Developed - The Fact that there's so many Incongruities means the Devs have Finally had to start Looking at Fixing them!

In My Opinion they're Not going anywhere Near Far enough - I'd personally be Happy if the BASE XP of VoN 3 and CoF were Swapped on Both Epic and Heroic!

BUT at least they're finally doing something!


Oh and yes...They've Proved that altering a Quest's Base Lvl CAN be done {Cabal For One is Now Lvl 14 in the Compendium!}.

Chamber of Rahmat - Move to Lvl 11
Offering of Blood Move to Lvl 12!

There's many more But these two are the WORST Offenders in the Game!

as for shadow crypt if only one person knows it maybe the others should take time to learn it just like tomb of the tormented instead of relying on others to do everything for them. i hate this. people always whine and moan how they don't know quests but never take the time to learn them. **** some of those player played for 2 years and they still don't know these quests. they play a decent amount of time. that isn't my fault they don't want say hey maybe im tired of being lost. i should do something about it right?

FranOhmsford
01-09-2014, 04:14 PM
Well see you are basing your opinions on experiences with 1st life characters. Yes, I know you have trd quite a few characters, but your response is giving examples of 1st lifers hard capping on xp without hitting all of it. After the xp curve, 3rd lifers and beyond xp has become very front loaded without any increase to quest xp at those lower to mid levels. The result is more repeats, I don't hit every quest but just about all of them; I do skip quests I personally dislike but those are few in number. If you take xp away from one you have to give some back in the same level range. As it stands now, it's a bit more grindy for legend tr xp until about level 15 and then it becomes easier. I am sure this change has nothing to do with the introduction of iconics and them being able to start at 15 and that you have to pay for them...maybe.

And yes, I did say it was not mandatory to split the party in shadow crypt/wiz king like it is in other zones, but the option is there. You have some quests that must be run a certain way and many others that have various ways they can be run. Limiting options is not the way to go. Balancing a game that allows for a variety of players and mindsets to enjoy the game is.


You not quoting my Full Posts does NOT Bother me at all!

I regularly cut Posts down that I reply to so as people can understand WHAT I'm replying to!

BUT

If I can't see a safe way to cut the Post down {and if it looks like I might Lose the Context of what I'm Quoting} I WILL Quote the Lot!



Sometimes Limiting Options is Valid - I'm NOT Saying to take those Options out entirely! {Well Maybe I am for Splitting up in Shadow Crypt or Soloing Different Towers In Wiz King as I feel these would be a Beneficial Option to the Vast Majority of Players and Saving some Elitists* a few Minutes Per Run is NOT top of my List!}.

*If You've EVER Complained about someone Dying and Hurting your XP you're an Elitist!
If You've EVER Refused a Person from your Party because they're NOT up to Your Standards {Even though they Fulfil the Criteria of being in the Quest Range/The Right Class} you're an Elitist!
If You've EVER Booted an Arcane from party because their HP are below 200 in Heroic VoN 3 You're an Imbecile!

And yes I firmly Agree with you that XP is NOT an Issue for 1st Lifers in this game BUT Too Many Don't Understand this Fact!

As for a Second {and Even 3rd Life} I run EVERY Quest ONCE on BB from Lvl 1-7 apart from:
Phiarlan Carnival - Saved For Epic
Purge the Heretics - Won't run it!
Chronoscope - Make it Lvl 7 Base so Clerics can have Raise Dead and I'll put up Groups for Elite BB
Devil Assault - No Point
Bargain of Blood, Black Loch and Tide Turns - Saved For Epic

I also Max Slayer Count/Get ALL Rares in Korthos, Cerulea, Waterworks AND 3 Barrel Cove +400 or 750 depending on whether I got the Rares Quick enough in Tangleroot!

And You Know What?

Even on a 3rd Life I hard Cap Lvl 11 before finishing the Lvl 8 Quests!

XP is NOT Difficult to earn!

I Like to see my Wilderness Page Green on the Compendium YET:
I've given up trying to Cap out Slayer in Tangleroot!
I rarely bother even entering Searing Heights, Ataraxia or The Red Fens
IF I run HiPS I'll Cap Restless Isles Slayer But I rarely run HiPS as I'm at that Point running Sands Slayer!

And even if you only do ONE Slayer Clearance Per Wilderness you'll easily earn enough XP while BBing Quests to NEVER have to run a Quest Twice for XP {Loot is a different Story of course!}.


Oh and I've stated over and over again that I want certain Quests XP Boosted!

I'm NOT just saying Nerf Shadow Crypt {In fact I stated that Most of that Nerf should actually go straight back in as a Boost to the Optional - An Optional that takes maybe Two More Minutes!}.

Lvl 9 Specifically IS actually pretty terrible - Apart from VoN 3/4 and Shadow Crypt {One run of each is enough to Hard Cap me on a 2nd Life} I rarely run any Lvl 9 Quests!

Frankly I think I'd still leave Fens for Epics as the Max Slayer Count vs Max Kills per Instance {9000 vs 150 odd} really Pi$$es me off!
And Upping the Base XP of Fathom the Depths/Into the Deep wouldn't change this!
And I'd Still Loathe Claw of Vulkoor Anyway!

BUT

The Church and the Cult could definitely do with an Upgrade!

AND

Dropping Sorrowdusk Pt 9&10 to Lvl 9 would Help some too {These two quests actually give quite good XP with BB}.

Lvl 10 is then Basically left with Two Raids and that's it!
Unless you really want to run Ataraxia - These Two Quests could probably do with an Upgrade {Not Much but a Small Boost for Sure}
And then there's HiPS/Restless Isles - HiPS could definitely do with a Boost to Optionals XP as Most groups simply Shortcut it!
Ghola Fan Needs a HUGE Upgrade to XP!
Shrieking Mines Needs it's 2nd Beholder Returned and a Good XP Bonus for doing said Optional!

And Finally - Threnal - What can I say about Threnal that hasn't already been said a Million times?
Basically If I had Carte Blanche I'd Remove Threnal as it is from the Game, Rebuild it AND Slot it back in as a Lvl 26 Epic Quest Pack!

With All the Changes I'd also make further down the Compendium {Lvls 1-7} I Firmly Believe that We'd End up with even less of an Issue earning XP than we currently have.

And BTW I'm NOT a fan of the Recent XP Curve Changes at Low Levels - Certain Levels are Way off - BUT They really haven't changed my own Levelling Style at All!

nibel
01-09-2014, 04:41 PM
Shadow Crypt XP is INSANE!

I also believe Shadow Crypt XP is absolutelly over the top, and a point out of the curve, just like VoN 3. But there is three reasons why I don't mind specifically Shadow Crypt for having such high ammount.

First, is because it is a chain capstone quest. I have this inner philosophy that the last quest in a chain should be the most rewarding one.

Second, because it can't* be run at will as soon as you unlock it. If you complete Shadow Crypt and want to run it again, you have to run all Necro 2 again, and hope it does not bug on reset.

Third, it is a puzzle quest. We all know the path is layered down in the wiki, but the first time you do the quest, if you want for some crazy reason try the quest yourself without spoilers, you will stay one or two hours inside the quest. And the boss IS hard if you are not prepared for him.

If anything should be nerfed on Shadow Crypt, I would choose to diminish a bit of the optional value (to 5% instead of curent 15%). But the quest XP itself is not that high if you consider the three points above.

*Yes, I know about window farming and openers. My opinion regarding this point is based on the quest as it is supposed to be played.

Braegan
01-09-2014, 04:52 PM
Sometimes Limiting Options is Valid - I'm NOT Saying to take those Options out entirely! {Well Maybe I am for Splitting up in Shadow Crypt or Soloing Different Towers In Wiz King as I feel these would be a Beneficial Option to the Vast Majority of Players and Saving some Elitists* a few Minutes Per Run is NOT top of my List!}.


Even on a 3rd Life I hard Cap Lvl 11 before finishing the Lvl 8 Quests!


I'm NOT just saying Nerf Shadow Crypt

Lvl 9 Specifically IS actually pretty terrible - Apart from VoN 3/4 and Shadow Crypt The Church and the Cult could definitely do with an Upgrade!

Lvl 10 is then Basically left with Two Raids and that's it!


Well you stated your dislike of splitting up in those quests, and judging by the reactions here on this thread alone and the way lfms are usually posted it should be clear you are very much in the minority. And that's fine, not everyone plays the same. But you trying to dictate how others might chose to approach a quest is never going to happen unless it's your group and you had your wishes posted in the lfm. Trying to change game design to suit your own ends is not going to garner any favorable attention.

I do usually skip slayers and explorers. I am aware they are a large source of xp and the decision to repeat quests rather then do that is entirely my decision, hence why you haven't seen me really complain about the xp changes. It's my choice. However, you can't deny that legend trs xp curve change has raised the amount needed (by quite a large margin up to level 15) without increasing any of the xp in the quests themselves. Reducing any heroic xp, especially in the 9-15 range, should only be coupled with buffs of equal or greater margin to other quests of the same range.

I know you suggested to buff the optional xp, but you know as well as I do your posts will be read as "Hey X quest has too much xp! Nerf it from orbit!"

Level 9 quests themselves are not as much the issue as level 10 are. With what is reasonably attainable solo/pug means you basically need to go from level 11 to 13 off the bulk of level 9 quests. So since alot are trying to get two full levels from one level range of quests (as level 10 quests are ghost town and/or not worth it) any mention of reducing xp from any level 9 quest will be looked at with negativity.

FranOhmsford
01-09-2014, 04:52 PM
did you ask the wizard to invis the giants? why didn't you invis them? why use a bow? you could of melee as well. ok so you use a bow of elements air in the air room. you chose that not him. why complain about it? you could of told them to let my hire do it or park your hire. now if you didn't put anything in the lfm either you should of said something if you didn't like him going that fast. communication works both ways. sure he could of probably did stuff too to help out.

1. I did ask the Wiz to Invis the Giants - Perhaps I should have asked earlier BUT the Guy's a Completionist - I Assumed I wouldn't need to ask and by the time I did He was already off and on his way to the 2nd Giant - He Didn't come Back!
I then fell off the Mountain and had to run all the way back from the start myself so had no time to type into Party Chat any further!

2. I didn't invis the 1st Giant because:
i) I was on a Tempest Ranger 10 / Ftr 5!
ii) I had Pots of Invis NOT a Clickie {Yes I knew I should have taken that Clickie out of the TR Cache!}.

3) I used the Bow so as to Pull Minotaur Aggro away from the Giant Faster - Running to and Fro with Scimis would have been a waste of effort!

4) Guess What - I'm a Tempest NOT an AA - Only Bow I had on me was the Bow of Elements Air! - Before that it was the Nicked Longbow from Sharn!

5) I'd already said in Party Chat that My Hire was there to do levers!
Myself and My Hire were Standing by the Lever when he said that He'd do it
Rather than Argue I got on with it.

6) I've already stated why I didn't have an issue with the Zerg - I knew what I was going to get and accepted it - However I AM using it as an Example of Exactly why the Forums are so wrong about Zerging and the Issues caused by It!

Oh And I've already stated why I will NEVER Put No Zerg on my LFMs
Zerg BYOH etc. LFMs are up all day, Every day - They fill with ease!
If an LFM does NOT have these Qualifiers in it then Guess What....It is NOT a ZERG LFM!

I'm also NOT going to Put Flower Sniffing in my LFM as Guess what...There's No Such Thing!


as for wiz king you do realize if there is 6 people that is 2 to each tower. that isnt soloing really. its breaking up into smaller parties. ok if its not your thing don't join them. just do your own lfm or solo. why do you care what they do? i don't get that. just ignore them. they don't effect you. to get ransack and conquest you need to do a lot to get it. so to some people its not worth the time. it means falling into every pit to break stuff. not everyone wants to do that.


OK So to get Ransack and Conquest you have to Fall into the Traps?

Well this is Clearly a Bad Mechanic Roleplay Wise and those Mobs/Breakables should be discounted when the Devs next get around to Looking at Wiz King's XP!

See...I'm Not trying to Ruin Your Enjoyment!
I'm just trying to Get you to see why 3+ Years of Solo A Tower LFMs and ONLY Solo a Tower LFMs is clearly the Result of Developer Mistakes and NOT Player Choice!

Heck you could say that Taking the Easy {or in this case QUICK} Path to Victory is a Player Choice But it's a Forced Choice for Many - The Vets only Play this Quest One Way which means that Everyone gets stuck having to Play this Quest that same way!

Now of Course...Some come to accept it and even enjoy it BUT it's STILL NOT a CHOICE!


I Loathe the Harried Option when it's used by the Devs as a Quest Challenge Boost like in High Road/Wheloon {Note to Devs: You know EXACTLY How Many Mobs it takes to Bring Harried down on us...SO STOP Creating Quests that Have More Mobs become active at the same time without Players Ignoring them and Zerging off into the Next room!

However It would be a Valid Option for the Devs to Use this method to Stop Players from Splitting up in Quests where said idea was Clearly NOT Intended!
Going off in Opposite Directions in Shadow Crypt before the DDOWiki gave us every possible path was a recipe for Disaster and a 3 Hr Long Quest!
The Quest itself gives you ONE DDoor Clickie with TWO uses!

Wiz King - Maybe the Devs did consider whether the best Players would get to a Point where they could "Solo a Tower" But I doubt they'd have ever thought it would become the Norm {and Newbies would find themselves Unable to Join Groups until they Could do such a thing}!

BTW: How Exactly do you learn how to Solo a Tower with 3 Man Scaling {and No Hireling because Hirelings cause 5% xp loss!} when you only get to run the quest Solo with a Hireling and Far Less Scaling / No Harried because you and the two people in other Towers all Set off a Room at the Same Time?


I'm pretty certain that I have multiple characters now who could Solo a Tower in Wiz King Heroic Elite at BB Lvl {Next ti,me they're at said level of course!}.
BUT
I will NOT Ever Subject anyone else to having to do such!

At the Very Least - I have absolutely no issue with People using Hirelings.
AND
Of Course
If I'm the Leader the LFM's Just gonna read "Wiz King Elite BB" {+ [Possibly Trapper would be nice if I don't want to Buy a Rogue Hire!} and if you can't understand that the fact that I didn't Put Zerg/BYOH/Solo a Tower etc. in the LFM means I'm quite happy for you to do that then you're in for a Rude Awakening!

Those LFMs are Everywhere after all - People Know what they Need to put in the LFM if that's what they want!
And I'm also NOT Flower Sniffing and I have No Need for a "Healer" as Hires are quite capable thank you!

Qhualor
01-09-2014, 05:01 PM
as for shadow crypt if only one person knows it maybe the others should take time to learn it just like tomb of the tormented instead of relying on others to do everything for them. i hate this. people always whine and moan how they don't know quests but never take the time to learn them. **** some of those player played for 2 years and they still don't know these quests. they play a decent amount of time. that isn't my fault they don't want say hey maybe im tired of being lost. i should do something about it right?

I don't disagree, but I will say some quests that require some intelligent thinking or tactics can be difficult to learn for some players. I have a tough time with puzzles despite the help from other players teaching me tricks to solving them and using spoilers. simple puzzles that require minimal thinking I can figure out. puzzles like in Shroud I can figure out the 3x3 and even the circle puzzle but I have a tough time with 4x4 and 5x5. Haunted Library I actually spend 10 minutes trying to figure it out and I have ran that quest countless times. I used to never run Inferno unless I joined a group with someone who at least sort of knew the route until one day I went to wiki and traced the route on a piece of paper. I followed the steps on norm a couple times and now have been able to do it at level on hard. I still get turned around a little. I have tried learning Tomb of the Tormented, but I eventually get frustrated and recall out. one day I plan to try to learn The Pit. because I "don't know" these quests, it does suck to miss out on that good xp, but ive learned to live with it out and still able to level without that xp. if I do run these quests, I consider them bonus xp because of that.

so for me, and I know its like this for some players, it depends on the difficulty of these puzzles and how people are able to figure out on whether or not they can solve these types of quests. ive never tried to learn Shadow Crypt because I never flag for it. I hate the underwater quest because I have to have a map to guide me through and im constantly checking the map while trying to play. not an easy thing to do. I could just trace the map like I did for Inferno, but I haven't found a good map that isn't so confusing. normally when I see an lfm for Shadow Crypt, its "know it" so I don't bother joining most times. if I do join and someone links the route in chat, than I can figure out the direction to go, but if I make a wrong turn, it could take me a long time to figure out where I need to go.

FranOhmsford
01-09-2014, 05:08 PM
Well you stated your dislike of splitting up in those quests, and judging by the reactions here on this thread alone and the way lfms are usually posted it should be clear you are very much in the minority. And that's fine, not everyone plays the same. But you trying to dictate how others might chose to approach a quest is never going to happen unless it's your group and you had your wishes posted in the lfm. Trying to change game design to suit your own ends is not going to garner any favorable attention.

The Reactions in this thread have specifically come from 3 or 4 People! {Maybe 5}.

At least one of those is in Hella Pro and therefore the Reaction Is fully expected.

Yourself and Pho3nix - These reactions also aren't particularly Unexpected although I personally think you're both better than said reactions would suggest.


I know you suggested to buff the optional xp, but you know as well as I do your posts will be read as "Hey X quest has too much xp! Nerf it from orbit!"

If People are gonna take what I say out of context then so be it!

I'm not gonna stop making suggestions simply because Some People Don't Read the Entire Suggestion and Focus Entirely on ONE Sentence!


Level 9 quests themselves are not as much the issue as level 10 are. With what is reasonably attainable solo/pug means you basically need to go from level 11 to 13 off the bulk of level 9 quests. So since alot are trying to get two full levels from one level range of quests (as level 10 quests are ghost town and/or not worth it) any mention of reducing xp from any level 9 quest will be looked at with negativity.

Yes it's a Bad Level Range for XP

However... Lvl 11/12 has a HUGE Amount of High XP Quests {Some could definitely do with being Higher...Yes I'm looking at You Chains of Flame!}.

And Lvl 10 isn't exactly Devoid of XP either what with Tempest Spine and Vault of Night!

I'd personally move Stormcleave Outpost, The Shadow Flags and Xorian Cypher to Lvl 9 as Lvl 6-8 also has a Large amount of Quests in it and a LOT of Available XP!

I've also Suggested before that Moving The Prisoner to Lvl 9 and Haywire to 10 would be Eminently Viable!


Nerfing Shadow Crypt in a Vacuum is NOT What I'm asking for!

It's just One Part of a Hoped for Sea-Change to the way the Devs look at Quests in DDO!

FranOhmsford
01-09-2014, 05:17 PM
I don't disagree, but I will say some quests that require some intelligent thinking or tactics can be difficult to learn for some players. I have a tough time with puzzles despite the help from other players teaching me tricks to solving them and using spoilers. simple puzzles that require minimal thinking I can figure out. puzzles like in Shroud I can figure out the 3x3 and even the circle puzzle but I have a tough time with 4x4 and 5x5. Haunted Library I actually spend 10 minutes trying to figure it out and I have ran that quest countless times. I used to never run Inferno unless I joined a group with someone who at least sort of knew the route until one day I went to wiki and traced the route on a piece of paper. I followed the steps on norm a couple times and now have been able to do it at level on hard. I still get turned around a little. I have tried learning Tomb of the Tormented, but I eventually get frustrated and recall out. one day I plan to try to learn The Pit. because I "don't know" these quests, it does suck to miss out on that good xp, but ive learned to live with it out and still able to level without that xp. if I do run these quests, I consider them bonus xp because of that.

so for me, and I know its like this for some players, it depends on the difficulty of these puzzles and how people are able to figure out on whether or not they can solve these types of quests. ive never tried to learn Shadow Crypt because I never flag for it. I hate the underwater quest because I have to have a map to guide me through and im constantly checking the map while trying to play. not an easy thing to do. I could just trace the map like I did for Inferno, but I haven't found a good map that isn't so confusing. normally when I see an lfm for Shadow Crypt, its "know it" so I don't bother joining most times. if I do join and someone links the route in chat, than I can figure out the direction to go, but if I make a wrong turn, it could take me a long time to figure out where I need to go.

Funnily enough Tomb of the Tormented is One of My Favourite Quests - The Rat Mazes aren't especially hard - A wand of Sonic Blast {or three} will take care of the Wargs/Dire Rats and as long as you have a trapper for the 3rd Maze the whole quest's a Breeze.
BTW The One trap {Spinny Blades} that Cannot be disabled is easy enough to work out - Just requires timing.

As for Shadow Guard - Again I adore this Quest!
Just a few words of advice: It's a One Way Quest!
There's Only One Spot in the Entire Quest where you can actually go the wrong way so long as you don't simply get turned round and start heading back to the start!
Basically you'll get to a Drop Down where you'll see a large round Symbol on the surface of the Water - This means DON'T Dive!
Stay on the Surface - Turn to your right and swim along the surface till you see the underwater tunnel ahead!

IF you mess up and Dive here then you'll eventually - It's quite a long swim - Reach the Optional {Frankly I never bother with it}. Once you've killed optional simply retrace your swim to the Symbol then Swim along the Surface etc.

Oh and The Shrine's a Middle Finger from the Devs - It used to be clickable thru the Bars but has been "Fixed" - Worst thing about this Quest = NO Shrine!

EllisDee37
01-09-2014, 05:24 PM
Second, because it can't* be run at will as soon as you unlock it. If you complete Shadow Crypt and want to run it again, you have to run all Necro 2 again, and hope it does not bug on reset.

*Yes, I know about window farming and openers. My opinion regarding this point is based on the quest as it is supposed to be played.You don't have to run all four flags again, no cheese required. After completing Shadow Crypt, instead of re-acquiring it (which resets the whole chain) open your quest log and abandon any one flagging quest of your choosing. Rerun that one abandoned flag and turn it in. Now go talk to the Shadow Crypt NPC and re-acquire Shadow Crypt. The NPC will explicitly say that this will not reset your whole chain, so it's clearly by design.

Silverleafeon
01-09-2014, 05:36 PM
Hello everyone!
Knockback
Senior Content Designer

The Von Raid survives and is one of the few raids still run often.

WHY?

Von 5 with all bonuses in place grants 150k xp that includes a 50% xp potion.
Von 6 has one or more elusive but highly valued item in the end chest.

If you can give up the notion that an adventure cannot have good loot and good xp,
you Knockback can completely restore the current end game all by yourself.

Go to Caught in the Web and increase the xp greatly.
Make it grant 180k xp with every possible bonus you can add on EH.
Make it grant 250k xp with every possible bonus on EE
The raid timer will keep abuse away.
Talk to the loot people and ask them to add a 1% chance to pull something interesting and new on EH and EE.

Go to Lord of Blades and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Target the 150K and 180K mark.
Tell the treasure people you want EE to drop a variety of tiers.

Go to the Master Artificer and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Tell the treasure people you want EH and EE to have a small percentage to drop item X.

Go to Chronoscope and increase the xp on EH and EE.

Go to Fall of Truth and greatly increase the xp on EH and especially EE.


BINGO, end game reestablished.
Knockback will be the talk of the watercooler...

EllisDee37
01-09-2014, 05:40 PM
Go to Lord of Blades and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Target the 150K and 180K mark.
Tell the treasure people you want EE to drop a variety of tiers.Alchemical crafting was killed when spell power went above 90. Raise the spell power to level-appropriate values for ML24 and ML28 versions and alchemicals become worth farming. At only 90 spell power, the only value alchemicals have is for divine DC casters and monks.

Braegan
01-09-2014, 05:42 PM
The Reactions in this thread have specifically come from 3 or 4 People! {Maybe 5}.


Yourself and Pho3nix - These reactions also aren't particularly Unexpected although I personally think you're both better than said reactions would suggest.



If People are gonna take what I say out of context then so be it!

I'm not gonna stop making suggestions simply because Some People Don't Read the Entire Suggestion and Focus Entirely on ONE Sentence!



Yes it's a Bad Level Range for XP

However... Lvl 11/12 has a HUGE Amount of High XP Quests {Some could definitely do with being Higher...Yes I'm looking at You Chains of Flame!}.

And Lvl 10 isn't exactly Devoid of XP either what with Tempest Spine and Vault of Night!

I'd personally move Stormcleave Outpost, The Shadow Flags and Xorian Cypher to Lvl 9 as Lvl 6-8 also has a Large amount of Quests in it and a LOT of Available XP!

I've also Suggested before that Moving The Prisoner to Lvl 9 and Haywire to 10 would be Eminently Viable!


Nerfing Shadow Crypt in a Vacuum is NOT What I'm asking for!

It's just One Part of a Hoped for Sea-Change to the way the Devs look at Quests in DDO!

Well to be clear it wouldn't bother me if a quest had its xp reduced if others in the same level range got buffed to compensate. I tend to hit most content when I tr. But, under that point of view it really doesn't matter. There is always going to be a high xp/min quest versus others. Which is good. shadow crypt looks so good compared to some other level 9s. If they were all the same it would be stale, and there wouldn't be a "looking forward to running that" feeling.

And, I'm not so concerned with other players reading what you posted out of context and as a stand alone idea as I am a dev glancing over and thinking that in and of itself would be a grand idea.

11/12 do have good xp for sure. My point was getting there (level 11) without burning out 1st time xp on higher level quests means that alot of level 9 quests are used. Level 10 has solid xp in tempest and von5, however, von5 can be a **** shoot to pug and tempest is nice xp but not really enough to make up for the mostly barren waste land that level 10 quests are.

I would leave existing quests where they are, aside from streamlining certain chains like tangleroot, sorrowdusk, etc to more appropriately accomodate bravery bonus. And instead add a new pack of 6 or so quests in the level 10 range with decent xp before we talk about putting a hurt on any level 9 quests. If that was done and I wouldn't need to just about get two full levels off one level range of quests, then we can talk about adjusting high favorites like SC.

Braegan
01-09-2014, 05:44 PM
Alchemical crafting was killed when spell power went above 90. Raise the spell power to level-appropriate values for ML24 and ML28 versions and alchemicals become worth farming. At only 90 spell power, the only value alchemicals have is for divine DC casters and monks.

Not to mention the need to run the raid on various difficulties to get all the bits you need. Combine that with lackluster spell power, a long tedious explorer zone to run thru to start the raid and bingo, you've got a dead raid. Which is sad, LoB is one of the better ones design wise.

Silverleafeon
01-09-2014, 05:52 PM
Indeed, raise the xp enough on all the epic raids and players will return cause we love to raid with friends and we love xp.

Livmo
01-09-2014, 05:53 PM
The Von Raid survives and is one of the few raids still run often.

WHY?

Von 5 with all bonuses in place grants 150k xp that includes a 50% xp potion.
Von 6 has one or more elusive but highly valued item in the end chest.

If you can give up the notion that an adventure cannot have good loot and good xp,
you Knockback can completely restore the current end game all by yourself.

Go to Caught in the Web and increase the xp greatly.
Make it grant 180k xp with every possible bonus you can add on EH.
Make it grant 250k xp with every possible bonus on EE
The raid timer will keep abuse away.
Talk to the loot people and ask them to add a 1% chance to pull something interesting and new on EH and EE.

Go to Lord of Blades and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Target the 150K and 180K mark.
Tell the treasure people you want EE to drop a variety of tiers.

Go to the Master Artificer and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Tell the treasure people you want EH and EE to have a small percentage to drop item X.

Go to Chronoscope and increase the xp on EH and EE.

Go to Fall of Truth and greatly increase the xp on EH and especially EE.


BINGO, end game reestablished.
Knockback will be the talk of the watercooler...

I really enjoy the Cannith raids. Its hard to find or fill these LFMs as well. I think they're fun.

Often I hear from peeps I don't want to run those, because they don't get the ingrediants, and/or not interested in the items/alchemical crafting. And don't like the xp for effort.

Bummer, because these are great raids. And I like to run them back 2 back.

Thumbs up for this post.

Moar Cannith!

HatsuharuZ
01-09-2014, 07:15 PM
The thrill of the hunt needs to have it's experience buffed. Fighting eight to ten Howlers AND a red-named chain-happy Shadar-Kai in a very small room is a bit painful.

Not to mention the Howlers cause an instance red dungeon altert, at least on heroic elite. This quest may be short, but that's not guarantee of a low difficulty.

axel15810
01-09-2014, 09:39 PM
Good job Turbine. Happy with those changes. Would like to see more XP increases for some quests such as Druid's Deep. That chain badly needs it.

On the VoN 3 nerf, I understand although I loved the XP. I think it's good for the game though. Probably 1 in every 8 quests run in epics was VoN 3.

NaturalHazard
01-09-2014, 11:28 PM
The Shadowfail content should have the XP doubled, at least.

Even then a lot of people would avoid it like the plague.

NaturalHazard
01-09-2014, 11:29 PM
I really enjoy the Cannith raids. Its hard to find or fill these LFMs as well. I think they're fun.

Often I hear from peeps I don't want to run those, because they don't get the ingrediants, and/or not interested in the items/alchemical crafting. And don't like the xp for effort.

Bummer, because these are great raids. And I like to run them back 2 back.

Thumbs up for this post.

Moar Cannith!

It would be nice if getting to the raid didn't take as long as running the **** raid.

goodspeed
01-09-2014, 11:54 PM
You'll get comms faster at hihger level.
You're better with leveling to lvl24 ASAP with high XP/min quets ignoring comms, than running variety of low epic level quests for 30 comms per one until you'll level to 24.
Level 24 means you are allowed to enter into EE stormhorns, where most comms drops.

Also, you're finishing quest faster at lvl28 than at 20, so you're better to level fast and farm comms with most powerful character possible, instead of some lowbie gimp.

coming soon to update 21.1 comm reduction in stormhorns lol

Guanmagi-1
01-10-2014, 12:08 AM
BINGO, end game reestablished.
Knockback will be the talk of the watercooler...

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/fa/fa352fc26fd802219d8cd5ccd6f6c8451dc1132b21a614590c b584a7858abe4b.jpg

Icywave
01-10-2014, 12:44 AM
The Von Raid survives and is one of the few raids still run often.

WHY?

Von 5 with all bonuses in place grants 150k xp that includes a 50% xp potion.
Von 6 has one or more elusive but highly valued item in the end chest.

If you can give up the notion that an adventure cannot have good loot and good xp,
you Knockback can completely restore the current end game all by yourself.

Go to Caught in the Web and increase the xp greatly.
Make it grant 180k xp with every possible bonus you can add on EH.
Make it grant 250k xp with every possible bonus on EE
The raid timer will keep abuse away.
Talk to the loot people and ask them to add a 1% chance to pull something interesting and new on EH and EE.

Go to Lord of Blades and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Target the 150K and 180K mark.
Tell the treasure people you want EE to drop a variety of tiers.

Go to the Master Artificer and increase the xp greatly on EH and EE.
Tell the treasure people you want EH and EE to have a small percentage to drop item X.

Go to Chronoscope and increase the xp on EH and EE.

Go to Fall of Truth and greatly increase the xp on EH and especially EE.


BINGO, end game reestablished.
Knockback will be the talk of the watercooler...

You know ... Without saying the numbers you used are what I would go for ... I tend to agree, raids would likely be run more often if they had better xp connected to them. VON 5/6 is indeed popular, as it remains worth doing it even if you don't have xyz gear drop.

Oh, and lets face it ... raid gear isn't, in general, the most sought after thing when lvl cap is 28, and the highest level raid is 25....

blackdae
01-10-2014, 01:31 AM
Frankly pHo3nix I well remember you being the person who took time out to show me how to run Temple of Vol after I'd complained on these forums about EVERY SINGLE Group being Zerg BYOH Know It etc.

I know you're better than Makes you sound!



I know him personaly, he's a good boy :D

oradafu
01-10-2014, 02:04 AM
Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?

If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!


It appears that you are looking for just suggestions on adjust the base XP. But I've been saying and suggesting for a long time for more optional XP. We need more quests with decent optionals like The Tear of Dhakaan, Redwillow's Ruins, Deleras: Missing Party, Stormcleave Outpost, Desert Caravan, Dreams of Insanity, and (the now Dev hated) Von3.

So I put together a list of quests that could use some optional XP added to them. Again, I know it's not what you are looking for, but it is something that is really needed for already established quests...and for all future quests.

(Aside: this is not all the quests that need these adjustments, just a handful that I picked out because of limited time and space.)

* Kobold Assault-
There's two things that should be done with XP in Kobold Assault.

First, since players cannot speed up the spawning of Kobolds except by kill them, the base XP should be boosted a bit.

Second, there should be a 10% optional XP for players when they have killed 50 Kobolds, 100 Kobolds, 150 Kobolds and finally 200 Kobolds.

* Gladewatch Outpost Defense-
Much like Kobold Assault, this quest needs XP boosts for the same reasons.

The base XP should be boosted. My gut says that it should be double what it currently provides.

Like my Kobold Assault suggestion, there should be a 10% optional XP for killing 50 mobs, 100 mobs, 150 mobs, 200 mobs and 250 mobs. I believe 250 is roughly the number of mobs that are killed before the Ogre boss appears.

* Hold for Reinforcements-
Yes, you knew this quest would soon appear here. This is everyone's least favorite 15 minute timed quest. This quest should take a page out of the best timed quest in the game: Desert Caravan.

Since this quest is 15 minutes long, it is NOT a short quest as it has been labelled and the XP has been calculated as. It is at least a medium quest, since Desert Caravan is 10 minute quest and labelled as a medium quest. So the base XP for Hold for Reinforcements has been VERY, VERY wrong for a long long time.

The second thing that should be done is that players should be getting 15% optional XP for Defnding the Library every 3 minutes. So there should be the following objectives added to this quest: Defend the Library for 3 minutes, Defend the Library for 6 minutes, Defend the Library for 9 minutes, Defend the Library for 12 minutes.

With an increase in base XP that is reasonable (not the current 850 XP or less) and gradual XP for not failing as the quest advances, this quest becomes less of a thorn in player's sides.

* An Offering of Blood
For years it's been bugging me that the Note found in the underwater shrine provides no XP. It should provide a small amount of XP, like 5%.

* Sinister Storage-
Another quest that contains waves of mobs, but this quest is more like Devil Assault than Kobold Assault.

This quest should have similar XP optionals found in Devil Assault. "Fight off the warehouse workers" should provide 25% optional XP. "Defend against the Taken" should provide 50% optional XP. "Kill the Taken and their allies" should provide 75% optional XP. "Destroy the Taken and Greater Thaarak Hounds" should provide 100% optional XP. These are exactly like the Devil Assault optionals. It's really shocking that there's a push to standardize everything in the game, but when it comes to similar style quests and optionals, everything is up in the air, yet a wacky formula is used to establish the base XP.

* Escape Plan-
Yet another quest that has mobs spawning in waves. I personally would like to see a progression of optional XP as I'm mentioned above in this quest also. However, I think I'd settle for something like 25% optional XP for completing the "Defeat the lizardfolk" objective.

* Shadow of a Doubt-
I think there are three objectives that should provide about 15% optional XP: "Defeat the Shadows" in the Magistrate's Office, "Secure the Docks" and "Defeat the Shadows" with the Purple Knight Captain.

* Stealer of Souls -
The XP for this quest should be adjusted for a few reasons.

The base XP should be increased simply because the flagging (and reflagging) of the quest is a pain. Not only do you need to run the three flagging quests, but you also must hold on to the three essences that take up a slot each run, in addition to the three gems to access the wilderness area the first time to the quest.

Second, it should be a rule of thumb that the quest that needs flagging should have better XP then the quests used to flag it.

Third, it's a timed quest. Timed quests should have automatically have slightly higher than usual XP just because of the timed mechanism.

The four elemental bosses (Agni, Bhumi, Jala and Pavan) should be providing some decent optional XP. I think somewhere around 20% to 30%. This should be considered a high level Wiz-King quest that players want to run for XP and the Dragontouched Armor (when DT Armor becomes viable or worthwhile again).

* Outbreak-
I hate this pack with a passion.

Aeron Leifbrand and Mikhael Jarvin should probably be providing about 15% optional XP in this quest.

* Thorn and Paw-
Did I mention that I hated this pack? Even so, there is a way to make this quest give some decent XP. Same song, second verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse...

Besides the base XP being boosted, there's the mini-bosses that should be providing some XP. Individually, Drien, Flinbeck, Garlick, Larres and Thomren should be providing about 5% to 10% each. The Den Mother should be providing a nice healthy 20% to 25%.

* The Druid's Curse-
Boy, I do hate this pack with a passion. And I hate this quest. Same song, second third, a little bit louder and a little bit worse...

Optional XP should be given for defeating Juhni, Kuldail Ukien and Skitter. All three of these mini-bosses should pobably provide 10% optional XP.

I'd also bump the Drow Expatriates' XP and Aghilde's XP from the current 8% to about 15%.

This quest/pack will still be lousy, but with additional optional XP such as this, it will be more worthwhile to run.
====
Again, this is not a complete list of quests that deserve/need such an optional XP boost. There are many, many more out there that need these type of optionals added to them.

lyrecono
01-10-2014, 03:32 AM
How is the explorer area broken? And they are increasing the XP... That's the point of this thread... Quite a few of the Wheelon and Stormhorn quests are fast... If they increase the xp a decent amount, they WILL be run more often.


Massive spawns causing instant red-alert causing the whole instance to lag out. This happens more often than it doesn't.

the lag in the wheloon expl area&purple mist, teleport lagging shadows etc
The stormhorns aren't much better but this time the massive lag makes people lag of the edge and waste even more time.

As for your "they WILL be run more often" comment, no amount of toilet spray can fix this mess, the entire pack is a stinking turd.
Laggy, seizure inducing purple haze, lackluster loot, lackluster exp, badly designed quest, bad story writting etc

just fixing 1 item on the list (the exp) will not cause people to run it much more often (after the first 3 days when people check m out)
There is too much wrong with them....
It's a over priced shotty product from the get go, and we informed/warned then about it on lamania.
They ignored us.

Their exp boos is too little, too late
The nerf is a slap in the face too people who are forced to run in of destinies

SlowDM
01-10-2014, 05:32 AM
All Shadowfell quests should have their xp at the very least doubled(more like quadrupled). Optionals in theses quests should be 5-10k not zero. Its that easy to change shadowfail into showdowfell . 6% are you real!!! . Go and add some 00's, 000's not %
Through a mirror darkly should have von 3 size xp at least 100,000 on EH. Recently did this with our Iconic static group, on HH, we enjoyed the quest even though it took us several attempts, but the xp actually i'd go as far to say as spolit the fun. So instead of doing the chain again we've gone to GH and the Vale.

Druid chain needs xp doubled and the optionals and mini bossses should geve 5-10k each.

I love this game, enjoy Motu and Shadowfell, make them the best.

pHo3nix
01-10-2014, 05:48 AM
Back in 2010 NO-ONE thought Zerg was the "Default"

This is one of those things that has changed over time - and it's NOT a good change!

As I said in my post - I was in a bit of a rush mysefl and was not overly bothered at the Zerging itself OR the people doing it {Both Very Well known Completionists!}
Heck I knew as soon as they hit the LFM that we were going to be moving a heck of a lot faster than I'm used to!

My Issue is that according to these forums {and tbh In-Game Chat Channels like Cannithtrade or Defense (Sarlona)} This is Making the Quest easier!

It's NOT - What it IS doing is "Making the Quest FASTER"

Easier and Faster are two different things!

And for me {and the Monk who was the only person to join while I was running Cabal - everyone else joined for PoP} A Certain Completionist and Cannithtrade Alumni Joining Quest and Proceeding to Go Solo the Beholder/Marilith etc. DID NOT make the Quest Easier {Nor Faster as we still had to wait for the other two to enter before completing!}.

Now I'll give him his due...He did say after I'd typed in that we were at Law Room to leave him an Orb and He'd do a Room by himself - Silly me however thought he meant ONE room before joining up with us!

Somehow {with only Cure Light - Ranger 10/Ftr 5 Tempest} I managed after losing Hire at start of fight to Kill Efreeti and Fire Eles {Fire Eles after running round the room like a loon Healing up and Swapping to Bow/Clicking Manyshot - Funny how the Tempest does MORE Dmg with the Bow!}.

So NO The Quest Was NOT made Easier!



If something is already really easy, like for many players soloing a room in PoP is, making it easier by doing it in more than 1 is kinda useless, while completing the whole quest faster getting all optionals is quite nice :) So i agree with you, splitting up and zerging completing different objectives/optionals is faster and not easier, but faster is way better than easier if the tasks you are going to complete are already really easy ;)





Hey...I believe I stated that the Wizard did NOT Invis the 1st Giant {I actually don't know about the second or 3rd Giant as I had to catch up.}
If he had {OR If I'd had a Clickie rather than Pots} I wouldn't even have mentioned said 1st Giant!



Oh sorry, i might have missed it, but my point remains: I always bring scrolls or clickies or the spell, especially if i know i'm going to run a quest where i'll need them :)




NO!

I won't Put No Zerg as I feel this IS the Default {and Frankly anyone saying otherwise is being incredibly Selfish and Inconsiderate of "Supposed" Lesser Players!}.

AND

I Certainly will NOT put Healer Needed as I carry a Hireling Cleric/FvS at all times anyway and am quite happy to provide Healing {or Ressing} thru them to anyone who needs such!

I may Put TRAPPER Needed BUT Only if I don't want to pay for a Hireling {Which in Many Cases of Late has been More Likely to Get the Bleedin' Traps!}.
I LIKE INGENIOUS DEBILITATION bonus Before You tell me that No Quest needs a Trapper!



/Signed!



There's not much you can do about it though: putting a comment in the LFM would avoid lots of problems and it's not something that terrible to do anyway.





Frankly pHo3nix I well remember you being the person who took time out to show me how to run Temple of Vol after I'd complained on these forums about EVERY SINGLE Group being Zerg BYOH Know It etc.

I know you're better than Makes you sound!



Thank you :) It really depends on my mood and on how much time i got to play: i'd prefer to zerg, but I can adapt if i'm not hosting the LFM or if there are new people that seem quite capable but missing the experience/gear. I'm quite relaxed though, i do not care about the 10% xp for flawless victory if i put up a lfm and i even can go out of my way to help nice people. I cannot stand noobs and rude people though, like people joining my "zerg" groups, proceding to get killed by some archers i left behind and starting to complain about zerging.




Many Many Players out there would NEVER join a Group Labelled Zerg BYOH Know it etc. Yet I see these Labels on LFMs All day Every day!

I've Personally HAD to join such groups from time to time {as I at the time Had no Hope of Soloing Said Quests and Despite what these forums think Grouping Up can STILL make Quests Easier for those of us who aren't able to Solo everything in the game even without a Hireling!}.

So Yes I've Enabled the Zerg BYOH Know It Mentality from time to time myself {Just by joining those Groups!}.

What I DON'T Get is Why you seem to think that Despite these Groups filling fast anyway EVERY Group that DOESN'T specifically State NO ZERG also means Zerg Ahead!


Don't make Us "Lesser Players" out to be the Bad Guys when you want to Both have Your Zerg AND Eat it!!!!!

There has to be some kind of default setting, and like it or not, in DDO the default is zerg and BYOH. So you can adapt and put "no zerg" in the LFM or you have to deal with people joining an unlabeled LFM and zerging if they aren't asked to go slow :)

pHo3nix
01-10-2014, 06:02 AM
I know him personaly, he's a good boy :D

Wow, i didn't know my reputation was so good :p

@OP: What about some changes to threnal?

1) Make the quests all the same lvl.
2) Remove the flagging mechanic for the south part.
3) Increase the xp for protecting Coyle! :D A couple of optionals in Von3 are worth more xp and they took 2 sec each, the whole quest requires 15 min and it got one of the worst mechanic in the game, make it rewarding on the xp side at least ;)
4) Increase the xp on west and south as well, east 1st and 2nd part are fine as they are.

lyrecono
01-10-2014, 06:25 AM
Wow, i didn't know my reputation was so good :p

@OP: What about some changes to threnal?

1) Make the quests all the same lvl.
2) Remove the flagging mechanic for the south part.
3) Increase the xp for protecting Coyle! :D A couple of optionals in Von3 are worth more xp and they took 2 sec each, the whole quest requires 15 min and it got one of the worst mechanic in the game, make it rewarding on the xp side at least ;)
4) Increase the xp on west and south as well, east 1st and 2nd part are fine as they are.

fixing the ice renders doing 500 hp damage polar rays 1 shotting my partymembers/coyle would be nice too

weyoun
01-10-2014, 06:25 AM
Plz reread op. It says epic only. Which is completely fine.

Your mom is fine.

patang01
01-10-2014, 07:52 AM
Not to mention the need to run the raid on various difficulties to get all the bits you need. Combine that with lackluster spell power, a long tedious explorer zone to run thru to start the raid and bingo, you've got a dead raid. Which is sad, LoB is one of the better ones design wise.

I agree, LoB in itself is a good raid, the 1 explorer zone run together with another kills it tho. Anytime it takes about an hour to get to a raid so people have to go back and rebuff kills the entire idea of coordinating a raid. Allow people to 'unlock' the elevator after doing a complete explorer run and keep it like that and a teleporter once you complete the pre-raid. At that point it should be no more then about 5 minutes to coordinate to get to the raid. And streamline how the items are made including a boost to spell power. Most raids in this game can be viable again with relatively simple adjustments and incentives - making for a reasonable viable end game while people ETR.

mutilador
01-10-2014, 08:40 AM
fixing the ice renders doing 500 hp damage polar rays 1 shotting my partymembers/coyle would be nice too

Ice flenser's polar ray

Infinity giant stomp

undead beholder doing 20 con damage a shot

stacking spells/abilities like the stupid wis damage from the howlers

Instead of nerfing quests why you dont fix this broken BS?

Cordovan
01-10-2014, 08:59 AM
*snip* Cordovan defends Coyle for fun!

It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

pasterqb
01-10-2014, 09:01 AM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

Is this related to how everytime i run his quest chain i am bored?

Ivan_Milic
01-10-2014, 09:20 AM
Is this related to how everytime i run his quest chain i am bored?

lol

Ivan_Milic
01-10-2014, 09:21 AM
fixing the ice renders doing 500 hp damage polar rays 1 shotting my partymembers/coyle would be nice too

Quest lvl 14 on elite, renders do 250 dmg, quest lvl 25 on epic elite, casters do 280 dmg polar rays.
Who is crazy here?

Guanmagi-1
01-10-2014, 09:39 AM
Your mom is fine.

She misses you.

FranOhmsford
01-10-2014, 10:14 AM
If something is already really easy, like for many players soloing a room in PoP is, making it easier by doing it in more than 1 is kinda useless, while completing the whole quest faster getting all optionals is quite nice :) So i agree with you, splitting up and zerging completing different objectives/optionals is faster and not easier, but faster is way better than easier if the tasks you are going to complete are already really easy ;)

And for Many Many People Soloing a Room in PoP on Heroic Elite at Lvl 13-16 {I don't go in there till 16 but I accept that others do!} is NOT EASY at ALL!

Heck I've been playing 3 years + now and still find Soloing a Room in PoP exhilarating and a Real Challenge!
{Except the Law Room for Obvious Reasons & The Undead Room is a Joke on My Clerics/Paladins!}.

PoP IS an Easy Quest for it's Level in a Group BUT Soloing a room wit 3.5 man Scaling is NOT!


Oh sorry, i might have missed it, but my point remains: I always bring scrolls or clickies or the spell, especially if i know i'm going to run a quest where i'll need them :)

As I mentioned I'd recently been to the TR Cache having Levelled and Know I had a Clickie in there {Which I mistakenly LEFT in there!}.

Still - We had a Wizard {not a Sorc who may or may Not have Invis BUT a WIZARD!} in group - Yes I Assumed {Bad Idea} that he would Invis the Giants {Him being a Completionist and Having run the Quest a Thousand times} so I'll take my share of the Blame for not asking him before I got to the Crystal.


There's not much you can do about it though: putting a comment in the LFM would avoid lots of problems and it's not something that terrible to do anyway.

There has to be some kind of default setting, and like it or not, in DDO the default is zerg and BYOH. So you can adapt and put "no zerg" in the LFM or you have to deal with people joining an unlabeled LFM and zerging if they aren't asked to go slow :)

No...Just NO!

If you were right about your Frankly Wrongheaded Assertion that Zerg BYOH etc etc is the Default in DDO then I'd have stopped seeing Zerg BYOH etc etc. LFMs EVERY SINGLE TIME I open the Group Panel!
Wouldn't I?

This is NOT the Default and Never has been!

Not everyone is capable of Zerging Every Quest in the game AND when it comes to quests like Wiz King some may Never Be as they don't ever see a group up that's not Zerg BYOH Solo a Tower etc. etc.!


Thank you :) It really depends on my mood and on how much time i got to play: i'd prefer to zerg, but I can adapt if i'm not hosting the LFM or if there are new people that seem quite capable but missing the experience/gear. I'm quite relaxed though, i do not care about the 10% xp for flawless victory if i put up a lfm and i even can go out of my way to help nice people. I cannot stand noobs and rude people though, like people joining my "zerg" groups, proceding to get killed by some archers i left behind and starting to complain about zerging.

This gets brought up so often as Mitigation by Zergers.

Look...If you Leave a Million Skelly Archers behind you and I {trying to catch up} get Unlucky then Yes maybe I will die {OK maybe not these days but in the past certainly!}.

BUT on the Whole Newbies should learn that Archers CAN be safely left behind in the Current Game and that Standing and Meleeing one while 3 others shoot you in the back leads to a World of Pain!

Unfortunately this Forum Trope does NOT show up in Game!
What shows up in Game is the Zerger who Invis Zergs Past EVERY D@rn Mob in the Quest then wonders why you didn't do same!

OR From Personal Experience:

Log on to my Crafter - Check LFM out of Habit - Notice Foundation Run up and IP {may have been Zerg BYOH} - Hit LFM thinking "If I can get there in time I can get this Safely out the way"
Make it to Quest, Enter, Start Running {No Buffs}, Quest completes as I Pass Shrines, Keep running to End Room, OH SHIIIIIIIUGAR Everyone's Recalled and there's a Multitude of Elementals attacking me, Die, Release and Leave Group, Join Vol run, Get Booted while being the Only Other Person in Group, Ask Why and be /told "so and so says that Rogue's a Bad!"

Both of those Group Leaders are STILL on my DNG List over a Year Later!


And sometimes Luck AND Lag do Play a Role too - NOT every Lag Death = N00B Alert you know!


Finally - Red Alert makes Mobs hit harder and Be More Sensitive to Footsteps!
You get Red Alert in a Quest you better be prepared for Latecomers to get into trouble if you've left Archers behind!

Take Chains of Flame for Example - You're IP and Half way thru the Quest - You haven't bothered Clearing Archers {most people don't I know} - Someone Joins and Enters - You move into a Room with a Large Number of Mobs while He steps on to first Bridge setting Archers off {Don't think CoF would actually cause Red Alert here but it's JUST an Example!}.
He Lags for a Second {stutter steps} and dies - You laugh and think he's Making Excuses when he types Lag in Party Chat even though you've STILL got Red Alert!

Who exactly is the N00B here?

In Summation:
Be Prepared goes both ways - If you're IP and moving at a Zerg Pace then you should Be Prepared for a -10% when Latecomers enter!

Yes they should also Be Prepared for the Red Alert etc. BUT it's NOT all on them!




I may have gone off on a Tangential Rant there so Just in case you missed it:

If Newbie dies and starts ranting about Zergers in a Zerg LFM Newbie is WRONG!

If Newbie dies and YOU Start Ranting about N00Bs costing you 10% then YOU are WRONG!

Guess which one is more common in Game as opposed to on these forums?

Heck I've come across people who die then Rant about Zergers - You know what I do?
HIT SQUELCH and Boot them as soon as they leave Quest!

This has happened maybe twice a year {so let's say 7 times since I started playing DDO!}.

The Elitist Zerger ranting about NOOBs is a Common Occurence {Multiple times per Day!}.


P.S. One Death often landslides as You Lose ALL your Buffs and probably aren't rebuffed!
In certain quests it is very easy for one death to suddenly become 4 - That Player ISN'T a N00B or Bad etc. He/She's Just been Unlucky!

Now if The Same thing happens in the Next quest and the one after that and the one after that then perhaps you're looking at a True N00B OR Perhaps you're looking at a Griefer OR Perhaps you're looking at someone having a Very Bad Day!

The Fact of the Matter is - You DON'T KNOW!

IF HOWEVER: Said Guy Starts Ranting and Raving about Zergers then OK!
But The Vast Majority DON'T Do this!

droid327
01-10-2014, 10:14 AM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

He's obviously a big fan of "Risk" and "Trouble"...though he owes a lot of us a game of "Sorry"....

Seikojin
01-10-2014, 10:33 AM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

I knew because if you don't knock him out, he talks about them over and over and over again until you get soo tired of hearing about them, that you want to let the reaver have him. LOL

count_spicoli
01-10-2014, 11:17 AM
All this whining over one quests xp reduction. I guarantee after this hits people will be happy with the changes. I mean shoot I use to like von 3 but now the thought of running it makes me sick.

I'll use house cannith quests as example. I hadn't run those quests in a year or more. Then ran them this past life and was pleasantly surprised to get around 46k for schemes of the enemy and power play. It's was so nice to run something other then reclaiming memories 20 times.

As far as wheloon I actually like the quests so bumping the xp is step in the right direction getting rid of the purple screen would be the biggest incentive to run them. And no they are not hard to get to. Neither is stormhorns. Peeps are just lazy.

As far as other xp changes I would up the xp in ALL RAIDS! Stormreaver, shroud all tho this actually not bad xp at level peeps just don't know, hound, vod, chrono, most Def lob, citw. These quests should offer 5 times the xp of any normal quest. You do this and presto raid scene fixxed.

I'm not sure what the anger towards forgotten realms stems from. Some real good quests out there and **** the graphics are quite a bit better. Running old Eberron seems like playing an old game to me. They Def need to fix purple screen or at least have option to shut off. That is terrible even tho I like the wheloon prison explorer area. Reminds me of my hometown detroit.

pHo3nix
01-10-2014, 11:54 AM
And for Many Many People Soloing a Room in PoP on Heroic Elite at Lvl 13-16 {I don't go in there till 16 but I accept that others do!} is NOT EASY at ALL!

Heck I've been playing 3 years + now and still find Soloing a Room in PoP exhilarating and a Real Challenge!
{Except the Law Room for Obvious Reasons & The Undead Room is a Joke on My Clerics/Paladins!}.

PoP IS an Easy Quest for it's Level in a Group BUT Soloing a room wit 3.5 man Scaling is NOT!



As I mentioned I'd recently been to the TR Cache having Levelled and Know I had a Clickie in there {Which I mistakenly LEFT in there!}.

Still - We had a Wizard {not a Sorc who may or may Not have Invis BUT a WIZARD!} in group - Yes I Assumed {Bad Idea} that he would Invis the Giants {Him being a Completionist and Having run the Quest a Thousand times} so I'll take my share of the Blame for not asking him before I got to the Crystal.



No...Just NO!

If you were right about your Frankly Wrongheaded Assertion that Zerg BYOH etc etc is the Default in DDO then I'd have stopped seeing Zerg BYOH etc etc. LFMs EVERY SINGLE TIME I open the Group Panel!
Wouldn't I?

This is NOT the Default and Never has been!

Not everyone is capable of Zerging Every Quest in the game AND when it comes to quests like Wiz King some may Never Be as they don't ever see a group up that's not Zerg BYOH Solo a Tower etc. etc.!



This gets brought up so often as Mitigation by Zergers.

Look...If you Leave a Million Skelly Archers behind you and I {trying to catch up} get Unlucky then Yes maybe I will die {OK maybe not these days but in the past certainly!}.

BUT on the Whole Newbies should learn that Archers CAN be safely left behind in the Current Game and that Standing and Meleeing one while 3 others shoot you in the back leads to a World of Pain!

Unfortunately this Forum Trope does NOT show up in Game!
What shows up in Game is the Zerger who Invis Zergs Past EVERY D@rn Mob in the Quest then wonders why you didn't do same!

OR From Personal Experience:

Log on to my Crafter - Check LFM out of Habit - Notice Foundation Run up and IP {may have been Zerg BYOH} - Hit LFM thinking "If I can get there in time I can get this Safely out the way"
Make it to Quest, Enter, Start Running {No Buffs}, Quest completes as I Pass Shrines, Keep running to End Room, OH SHIIIIIIIUGAR Everyone's Recalled and there's a Multitude of Elementals attacking me, Die, Release and Leave Group, Join Vol run, Get Booted while being the Only Other Person in Group, Ask Why and be /told "so and so says that Rogue's a Bad!"

Both of those Group Leaders are STILL on my DNG List over a Year Later!


And sometimes Luck AND Lag do Play a Role too - NOT every Lag Death = N00B Alert you know!


Finally - Red Alert makes Mobs hit harder and Be More Sensitive to Footsteps!
You get Red Alert in a Quest you better be prepared for Latecomers to get into trouble if you've left Archers behind!

Take Chains of Flame for Example - You're IP and Half way thru the Quest - You haven't bothered Clearing Archers {most people don't I know} - Someone Joins and Enters - You move into a Room with a Large Number of Mobs while He steps on to first Bridge setting Archers off {Don't think CoF would actually cause Red Alert here but it's JUST an Example!}.
He Lags for a Second {stutter steps} and dies - You laugh and think he's Making Excuses when he types Lag in Party Chat even though you've STILL got Red Alert!

Who exactly is the N00B here?

In Summation:
Be Prepared goes both ways - If you're IP and moving at a Zerg Pace then you should Be Prepared for a -10% when Latecomers enter!

Yes they should also Be Prepared for the Red Alert etc. BUT it's NOT all on them!




I may have gone off on a Tangential Rant there so Just in case you missed it:

If Newbie dies and starts ranting about Zergers in a Zerg LFM Newbie is WRONG!

If Newbie dies and YOU Start Ranting about N00Bs costing you 10% then YOU are WRONG!

Guess which one is more common in Game as opposed to on these forums?

Heck I've come across people who die then Rant about Zergers - You know what I do?
HIT SQUELCH and Boot them as soon as they leave Quest!

This has happened maybe twice a year {so let's say 7 times since I started playing DDO!}.

The Elitist Zerger ranting about NOOBs is a Common Occurence {Multiple times per Day!}.


P.S. One Death often landslides as You Lose ALL your Buffs and probably aren't rebuffed!
In certain quests it is very easy for one death to suddenly become 4 - That Player ISN'T a N00B or Bad etc. He/She's Just been Unlucky!

Now if The Same thing happens in the Next quest and the one after that and the one after that then perhaps you're looking at a True N00B OR Perhaps you're looking at a Griefer OR Perhaps you're looking at someone having a Very Bad Day!

The Fact of the Matter is - You DON'T KNOW!

IF HOWEVER: Said Guy Starts Ranting and Raving about Zergers then OK!
But The Vast Majority DON'T Do this!

So we agree, except about the elitist zergers ranting about noobs; i've seen people kicking others for various reasons, but i've never seen anyone going on a long rant :)

Deaths happen, especially on elite at level in certain quests: experienced players usually know when deaths are caused by bad luck or by someone's inability to play the game :) Getting killed by archers is usually a pretty clear sign of the latter, while rolling a 1 on an elite disintegrate soon after having been damaged by something else is usually bad luck ;)

I'd like to remind you that there was a time when ship buffs weren't in the game, yet people could still complete quests on elite without problems and with a lot less easy buttons. So, if someone dies and then he keeps dieing cause he lost ship buffs he's just a bad player: +x to stats buffs aren't that important, resists are important and for this reason everyone should have some way to get their resists, at least the +20 ones. There's no excuse to keep dieing after you lost ship buffs, otherwise all those who were playing before their introduction should be considered demi-gods :D

Reputation is another important factor in how you might be considered in a pug: tribe/hella pro(i'm using these 2 guilds as an example cause you used them some posts ago) players are usually competent players, it's really unlikely to see them doing stupid things and they usually are nice addictions to any group. There are some other guilds with a really bad reputation though; so if you are in these guilds people might look at your performance in quests cause your guildies are usually really bad. There are always exceptions though, like well known good players from bad guilds and bad players from nice guilds.

Thrudh
01-10-2014, 12:12 PM
As for your "they WILL be run more often" comment, no amount of toilet spray can fix this mess, the entire pack is a stinking turd.
Laggy, seizure inducing purple haze, lackluster loot, lackluster exp, badly designed quest, bad story writting etc

See, this is the difference... Not laggy for me, the purple haze doesn't bother me (except in What goes Up - purple haze on a white snowfield does not work), I agree the loot isn't very good, they are increasing the exp (that's what this thread is about), and I like the quests and even the story (the whole Oriphaun Huntsilver story is actually quite good).

The main point is they are trying to fix at least one of your complaints (xp) and everyone is jumping down their throat.

Come on guys, if they cut VON 3 exp 90%, I'll complain with you... but if they cut it 20%-30%, and increase exp on all those other quests, it's a net positive for the game.

Is there anything you people won't cry about?

Say thank you, get a positive feedback loop going, and maybe the devs will tone down or get rid of the purple haze effect next.

lugoman
01-10-2014, 12:52 PM
As far as wheloon I actually like the quests so bumping the xp is step in the right direction getting rid of the purple screen would be the biggest incentive to run them. And no they are not hard to get to. Neither is stormhorns. Peeps are just lazy.



I don't recall anyone saying the quests were hard to get to. It is a boring to run to the quests. This is a game, and games shouldnt be boring. If they made it so you could teleport directly to the quest, you could still run. Everyone could play how they want. Makes no sense for Turbine to put annoying obstacles in front of people who WANT to play ddo.

count_spicoli
01-10-2014, 12:59 PM
I don't recall anyone saying the quests were hard to get to. It is a boring to run to the quests. This is a game, and games shouldnt be boring. If they made it so you could teleport directly to the quest, you could still run. Everyone could play how they want. Makes no sense for Turbine to put annoying obstacles in front of people who WANT to play ddo.

I will say this it couldn't hurt to update ships teleporter to go to wheloon and stormhorns or **** just eveningstar.

lyrecono
01-10-2014, 01:02 PM
All this whining over one quests xp reduction. I guarantee after this hits people will be happy with the changes. I mean shoot I use to like von 3 but now the thought of running it makes me sick.

I'll use house cannith quests as example. I hadn't run those quests in a year or more. Then ran them this past life and was pleasantly surprised to get around 46k for schemes of the enemy and power play. It's was so nice to run something other then reclaiming memories 20 times.

As far as wheloon I actually like the quests so bumping the xp is step in the right direction getting rid of the purple screen would be the biggest incentive to run them. And no they are not hard to get to. Neither is stormhorns. Peeps are just lazy.

As far as other xp changes I would up the xp in ALL RAIDS! Stormreaver, shroud all tho this actually not bad xp at level peeps just don't know, hound, vod, chrono, most Def lob, citw. These quests should offer 5 times the xp of any normal quest. You do this and presto raid scene fixxed.

I'm not sure what the anger towards forgotten realms stems from. Some real good quests out there and **** the graphics are quite a bit better. Running old Eberron seems like playing an old game to me. They Def need to fix purple screen or at least have option to shut off. That is terrible even tho I like the wheloon prison explorer area. Reminds me of my hometown detroit.


some time ago they buffed the old raids to cater to the(back then) stuck at 20 crowd who was steamrolling over those older raids.
Those raids should have been toned down a bit to make it more fun to run at lv (just like the unchanged tempest spine), their gear is only usefull at lv and their difficulty should lie in the teamwork, not in inflated hp.
i agree on a option box to deal with the purple haze


See, this is the difference... Not laggy for me, the purple haze doesn't bother me (except in What goes Up - purple haze on a white snowfield does not work), I agree the loot isn't very good, they are increasing the exp (that's what this thread is about), and I like the quests and even the story (the whole Oriphaun Huntsilver story is actually quite good).

The main point is they are trying to fix at least one of your complaints (xp) and everyone is jumping down their throat.

Come on guys, if they cut VON 3 exp 90%, I'll complain with you... but if they cut it 20%-30%, and increase exp on all those other quests, it's a net positive for the game.

Is there anything you people won't cry about?

Say thank you, get a positive feedback loop going, and maybe the devs will tone down or get rid of the purple haze effect next.

not lagy for you, good for you, i counted at least 30 different people in this thread alone who complained about it, i meet people in game who actively avoid the pack because of it (and regret buying it).
The problem is bad in the quest when standing together makes it worse, esp on the healer, spreading around isn't always an option on EE
The problem becomes glaringly worse (no pun intended) in WGU, the reflective snow, the purple haze, together with the lag causes you to rubber-band over the edge. awesome end fight design.
The problem with everyone jumping down their throat is that we told them on Lamania and the lam forum what was wrong with it and they ignored it.
Yes they increased the exp, yes they improved the random loot, how about at least acknowledging the rest of the problems?
I do admit, i do think some of the graphics in the forgotten realms are pretty, i love the acid pool with vapors in trail by fury, the snowflake crystal thing at the start of deal and the demon was...different, in a good way.
ignoring all the glaring problems so many people already stated in this thread (and many others) in general, the graphics have been improving greatly since U12 (the artie pack i think???), however, pretty graphics do not make a substitute for game play, or story writing. If i want a hollow but pretty grindfest i'll start downloading a korean mmo, i bet ncsoft has one...
back on topic:
How about fixing the " of destiny" grind before nerfing 1 of the few pain alleviating quests in the game, one of the few that was still good for meeting new people (now that so many run in channels on "my" server).
As for being positive, in another branch of commerce this shotty product would have have been forcibly recalled.
It's just too bad we don't have one of those internet critics making fun of this pack, cause this level of work resembles LJN's NES area quality control.
Too bad i don't have a good voice for this type of thing but we should make some community avgn/ "that guy with the glasses" type of reviews, maybe it works as incentive for quality review/testing before selling it....
the ghostbane memes seem to reach their ego's...


PS: no to nerfing the von3 (or any other) exp!!!
Not untill turbine fixes the of destiny grind!

arminius
01-10-2014, 01:16 PM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

His favorite game is Seppuku. He thought he had signed up to learn Go. Nobody has the heart to tell him that you don't need a board for the game he's good at.

FranOhmsford
01-10-2014, 01:37 PM
See, this is the difference... Not laggy for me

Do you ever get Lag Thrudh?

Cos whenever someone mentions lag in DDO you reply that you don't get it?

Are you Actually playing on one of Turbine's Own Machines or Something?


Look - Just because it doesn't affect you and your Ultimate PC doesn't mean it's not a serious issue for many others!

count_spicoli
01-10-2014, 01:45 PM
some time ago they buffed the old raids to cater to the(back then) stuck at 20 crowd who was steamrolling over those older raids.
Those raids should have been toned down a bit to make it more fun to run at lv (just like the unchanged tempest spine), their gear is only usefull at lv and their difficulty should lie in the teamwork, not in inflated hp.
i agree on a option box to deal with the purple haze
indeed it was but now people are so op'd at all levels that these quests at level aren't the challenge they use to be. I do a Stormreaver at level on every life on elite for bb and while a challenge I have yet to fail one. But the xp with bb is still paultry.



How about fixing the " off destiny grind

big time. This is why turbine is so frustrating. Right now they are trying to work out every way to make money possible which i understand because they need scratch to stay in business but they had a massive money maker in shears and they removed them never to be seen again despite player eagerness to buy and use them. I bought and used them like crazy so I could be in main destiny and get xp in off destiny. They could have made a killing with these but fumbled the football like they have so many times. BRING BACK SHEARS TURBINE! PEOPLE ARE WILL I G TO SPEND REAL CASH TO NOT HAVE THE MISERY THAT IS OFF DESTINY GRINDING!

Teh_Troll
01-10-2014, 01:51 PM
BRING BACK SHEARS TURBINE! PEOPLE ARE WILL I G TO SPEND REAL CASH TO NOT HAVE THE MISERY THAT IS OFF DESTINY GRINDING!

/signed. I would absolutely pay for these to farm karma and not hate the game.

FranOhmsford
01-10-2014, 01:54 PM
So we agree, except about the elitist zergers ranting about noobs; i've seen people kicking others for various reasons, but i've never seen anyone going on a long rant :)

Deaths happen, especially on elite at level in certain quests: experienced players usually know when deaths are caused by bad luck or by someone's inability to play the game :) Getting killed by archers is usually a pretty clear sign of the latter, while rolling a 1 on an elite disintegrate soon after having been damaged by something else is usually bad luck ;)

I'd like to remind you that there was a time when ship buffs weren't in the game, yet people could still complete quests on elite without problems and with a lot less easy buttons. So, if someone dies and then he keeps dieing cause he lost ship buffs he's just a bad player: +x to stats buffs aren't that important, resists are important and for this reason everyone should have some way to get their resists, at least the +20 ones. There's no excuse to keep dieing after you lost ship buffs, otherwise all those who were playing before their introduction should be considered demi-gods :D

Nope - Not at all - I know a Very good player who Died 4 times in a row the other day - Yes he was on the Phone at the time But a Sign that he's a Bad/Noob? Nope!

And as for Ship Buffs - I've said this before and I'll say it again - Quests HAVE been BUFFED Since I started playing this game!
Newer Quests like In the Flesh and Spinner of Shadows are an order of Magnitude more difficult than Older ones in the same Lvl Range Like Ritual Sacrifice or Acid Wit sans Optional End Fight.

The Game is NOT easier than it was in 2010 {when I started playing} and certainly not back in 2006 when Soloing according to these forums was Nigh on Impossible!

You and I have just become Better at it!!!
We've earned More Levels, Past Lives, Better Gear, Know what Feats to take on our Characters and what Enhancements NOT TO!
We've even Learned the Quests and Know what to expect - And it takes us very few runs to catch up with New Arrivals because we know from experience what to do in certain situations and What NOT to do!

Certain Harbour Quests especially are Brutal for Newbies without Ship Buffs and even a 3 Year Vet like myself when playing on a server where I don't have 30 {or even 10 resists} can get into trouble if I lose attention for a second or two!



Reputation is another important factor in how you might be considered in a pug: tribe/hella pro(i'm using these 2 guilds as an example cause you used them some posts ago) players are usually competent players, it's really unlikely to see them doing stupid things and they usually are nice addictions to any group. There are some other guilds with a really bad reputation though; so if you are in these guilds people might look at your performance in quests cause your guildies are usually really bad. There are always exceptions though, like well known good players from bad guilds and bad players from nice guilds.

Ah...We'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of running with Zerg/Hella - And I'm sure I'm on a number of their DNG Lists too as our goals are pretty much mutually exclusive!

As for Guilds with a Really Bad Rep - It's Strange But One that's got an awful lot of stick on Cannith over the past year {ever since they opened their ranks up} is One that up to that Point I would have NOTHING TO DO WITH!
Nowadays I'm quite happy when one of their members {except for the obvious OMG why haven't they killed him yet!} joins my groups though according to Cannithtrade they're all Noobs!

And as for Myself - I have My Own Guild - 8 Accounts {3 of which are mine} and so I'm pretty certain that ANY Bad Reputation accrued by my Guild is Mine and Mine alone!
The Good However is more likely to have been accrued by the other 4 Players in Guild!

lyrecono
01-10-2014, 02:12 PM
Do you ever get Lag Thrudh?

Cos whenever someone mentions lag in DDO you reply that you don't get it?

Are you Actually playing on one of Turbine's Own Machines or Something?


Look - Just because it doesn't affect you and your Ultimate PC doesn't mean it's not a serious issue for many others!

i have a decent rig, far, far stronger then what ddo requires, even in WGU, the lag is caused on turbines side

Hathorian
01-10-2014, 02:21 PM
We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

pHo3nix
01-10-2014, 02:51 PM
Nope - Not at all - I know a Very good player who Died 4 times in a row the other day - Yes he was on the Phone at the time But a Sign that he's a Bad/Noob? Nope!

And as for Ship Buffs - I've said this before and I'll say it again - Quests HAVE been BUFFED Since I started playing this game!
Newer Quests like In the Flesh and Spinner of Shadows are an order of Magnitude more difficult than Older ones in the same Lvl Range Like Ritual Sacrifice or Acid Wit sans Optional End Fight.

The Game is NOT easier than it was in 2010 {when I started playing} and certainly not back in 2006 when Soloing according to these forums was Nigh on Impossible!

You and I have just become Better at it!!!
We've earned More Levels, Past Lives, Better Gear, Know what Feats to take on our Characters and what Enhancements NOT TO!
We've even Learned the Quests and Know what to expect - And it takes us very few runs to catch up with New Arrivals because we know from experience what to do in certain situations and What NOT to do!

Certain Harbour Quests especially are Brutal for Newbies without Ship Buffs and even a 3 Year Vet like myself when playing on a server where I don't have 30 {or even 10 resists} can get into trouble if I lose attention for a second or two!




Ah...We'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of running with Zerg/Hella - And I'm sure I'm on a number of their DNG Lists too as our goals are pretty much mutually exclusive!

As for Guilds with a Really Bad Rep - It's Strange But One that's got an awful lot of stick on Cannith over the past year {ever since they opened their ranks up} is One that up to that Point I would have NOTHING TO DO WITH!
Nowadays I'm quite happy when one of their members {except for the obvious OMG why haven't they killed him yet!} joins my groups though according to Cannithtrade they're all Noobs!

And as for Myself - I have My Own Guild - 8 Accounts {3 of which are mine} and so I'm pretty certain that ANY Bad Reputation accrued by my Guild is Mine and Mine alone!
The Good However is more likely to have been accrued by the other 4 Players in Guild!

If we are talking about the same guild then most old members of it were good and it was fun to play with them and i've never got a problem with them; since they opened their ranks up i would gladly avoid most of its members with the exception of those few good players still there :D

I'm not in Cannithtrade but as i said the good players are known, the rest is usually pretty bad :)

Hathorian
01-10-2014, 02:56 PM
If you nerf Jungle of Khyber xp who is going to bother doing ETR anymore? It takes a long time to get enough xp with other quests. Most of the quests you are increasing xp for nobody runs anyway and a small increase to base xp won't change that much.

lyrecono
01-10-2014, 03:16 PM
hat,

if i folow your train of though, etr-ing would slow down, esp in of destinies, people will take more extended leaves of absence, as many before them

mkmcgw17
01-10-2014, 03:31 PM
Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

• Chains of Flame (Epic only)
• Trial By Fury (Epic only)
• The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
• Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
• Outbreak (Epic only)
• In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)
• The House of Death Undone (Epic only)
• The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
• What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
• Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
• Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
• Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
• Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
• The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
• Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)

We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.

I don't see [insert quest name here] in this list. Does that mean that quest isn't going to be adjusted?

Just because a quest isn't listed here doesn't mean its XP won't be tweaked either up or down in a future release, or even for Update 21. We are definitely planning on more rounds of XP adjustments further on down the road.

For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?

As PurpleFooz explained in the fall (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427517-Quest-XP-Changes-for-Update-20?p=5126181&viewfull=1#post5126181), we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?

If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

Knockback
Senior Content Designer

Those all sound like quests that need some adjustment experience wise. I would also add to that list reclaiming the rift it doesn't pay much experience and is the most difficult of the demon web quests.

mkmcgw17
01-10-2014, 03:42 PM
Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

• Chains of Flame (Epic only)
• Trial By Fury (Epic only)
• The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
• Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
• Outbreak (Epic only)
• In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)
• The House of Death Undone (Epic only)
• The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
• What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
• Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
• Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
• Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
• Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
• The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
• Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)

We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.

I don't see [insert quest name here] in this list. Does that mean that quest isn't going to be adjusted?

Just because a quest isn't listed here doesn't mean its XP won't be tweaked either up or down in a future release, or even for Update 21. We are definitely planning on more rounds of XP adjustments further on down the road.

For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?

As PurpleFooz explained in the fall (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427517-Quest-XP-Changes-for-Update-20?p=5126181&viewfull=1#post5126181), we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?

If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

Knockback
Senior Content Designer

I haven't had any problems reaching level 28 and I don't farm VON3 although I do run it from time to time. I still N/H/E most of the quests and with wilderness areas I easily reach 28 so I agree that VON3 should be cut experience wise by maybe 20% or so. Thanks for posting your plans and taking feedback.

Hathorian
01-10-2014, 03:42 PM
hat,

if i folow your train of though, etr-ing would slow down, esp in of destinies, people will take more extended leaves of absence, as many before them

yep. it is already boring grinding from 20-28 just for the ETR but it will be even slower von3 is nerfed. that quest is more important than all of the others combined IMO.

neain2008
01-10-2014, 03:54 PM
I will chime in on all the things said before me that the shadowfell quests need their XP boosted by far more than just 20%.

As (apparently) one of the few people who likes the shadowfell content (minus the purple haze and chain whips) I would like to see these quests run more often than once for the BB. and the same goes for storm horns.

on a side note, please up Canith crafting and Canith challenge items. (if we all ask nicely enough times, they MIGHT get around to adding in the content we want)

ranthrock
01-10-2014, 04:44 PM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

Can we turn in four ore instead of running this quest, then? Coyle would be supportive.

slarden
01-10-2014, 04:55 PM
You'll get comms faster at hihger level.
You're better with leveling to lvl24 ASAP with high XP/min quets ignoring comms, than running variety of low epic level quests for 30 comms per one until you'll level to 24.
Level 24 means you are allowed to enter into EE stormhorns, where most comms drops.

Also, you're finishing quest faster at lvl28 than at 20, so you're better to level fast and farm comms with most powerful character possible, instead of some lowbie gimp.

This is basically my strategy as well except I am satisfied with level 23 and starting with the saga quests. My basic plan every epic life is to bank saga xp rewards for the next life - run a few high xp quests right away and then start running quests with a good com/min ratio. Quests like EE Partycrashers are pointless with the current system.

Thar
01-10-2014, 06:29 PM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

does he give more than 1500 xp for defending his butt for 15 mins?

Silverleafeon
01-10-2014, 07:08 PM
It's true. The guy's not so bad, once you get to know him. Did you know he's actually good at board games? Now you do. :)

When you Epic this series, can Colye summon a giant version of this and protect us versa vica:

http://www.hasbro.com/en_CA/images/MPH_illustration_1.jpg

mkmcgw17
01-11-2014, 07:02 AM
All this whining over one quests xp reduction. I guarantee after this hits people will be happy with the changes. I mean shoot I use to like von 3 but now the thought of running it makes me sick.

I'll use house cannith quests as example. I hadn't run those quests in a year or more. Then ran them this past life and was pleasantly surprised to get around 46k for schemes of the enemy and power play. It's was so nice to run something other then reclaiming memories 20 times.

As far as wheloon I actually like the quests so bumping the xp is step in the right direction getting rid of the purple screen would be the biggest incentive to run them. And no they are not hard to get to. Neither is stormhorns. Peeps are just lazy.

As far as other xp changes I would up the xp in ALL RAIDS! Stormreaver, shroud all tho this actually not bad xp at level peeps just don't know, hound, vod, chrono, most Def lob, citw. These quests should offer 5 times the xp of any normal quest. You do this and presto raid scene fixxed.

I'm not sure what the anger towards forgotten realms stems from. Some real good quests out there and **** the graphics are quite a bit better. Running old Eberron seems like playing an old game to me. They Def need to fix purple screen or at least have option to shut off. That is terrible even tho I like the wheloon prison explorer area. Reminds me of my hometown detroit.

I live the whole forgotten realms quests and wilderness areas and the underdark chains are awesome. Uts nice when a dungeon matches somewhat what you imagined it to be. I still stop and look around at the great detail. Give that guy a medal.

SeaWolf925
01-11-2014, 12:26 PM
I'd prefer raising xp of optionals to reward thoroughness rather than zerging to the main objective.

One of the exciting things about DnD, was exploring all the map areas and not knowing exactly what you would discover. The way things are now for the most part is people rush right to the end because optional xp and potential loot is lame. I tend to enjoy dungeon crawling and getting and discovering everything; this is not practical in most groups. What ways could this type of experience be fostered? I see three ways that this could be accomplished: 1) increased xp for completing optionals 2) potential loot 3) stacking xp and/or potential loot for completing all the optionials.

SeaWolf925
01-11-2014, 12:41 PM
here are some suggestions.
have XP scale based on people in group since dungeon difficulty scales why not xp? this would encourage more pugs even if many players have no problem solo/duo a boost in xp will give incentive to invite players that perhaps can't solo/duo those same quests allowing for a more social environment.
increase the xp jump from normal-hard-elite in epic quests there is a HUGE difference in difficulty from doing say a Von 3 epic normal to doing a Von 3 Epic Elite yet the xp difference is minimal after first time/streak bonus.

And perhaps the xp scale could not be effected by hires so it has to be a real player in group in order to increase the xp doesn't even have to be much say 1% extra of base per each player after 1 so 6 players = 5% bonus for full party. It's really not a game breaker should give it some thought :)

I like this concept but I would suggest an even larger increase to the xp bonus for the number of live players in the group, exclude the hirelings and summons. One of the disappointing things that has taken place in this game since the increase of level cap above 20 is the social aspect. It used to be easier to put together Guild, friends and pugs, maybe you did too good a job on scaling. I would suggest that you remove scaling for 1 and 2 person parties completely.

EvilII
01-11-2014, 01:56 PM
Please use this thread to discuss!

Knockback
Senior Content Designer

Just be careful on how much you nerf VoN 3. It's not needed to get to 28 the first time, but you made Epic TR *not* reset the xp log. That means second, third, etc... time you level to 28 you're not getting streak or first time bonuses - not just for VoN3, but for any quest. Further, you are forcing a large portion of the players to level in their wrong destinies in order to get the epic past lives they desire. Finally, iconics could be a shortcut to that, but you've also designed the system so that an iconic must level to 28 twice to get an epic past life. If you nerf the high paying quests too much, you may also strangle or at least choke epic tr-ing.

Rasputin
01-12-2014, 10:45 AM
I think it needs to be emphasized the dynamic that has been put in place with epic destinies and how VON3 tends to fit in there. There's a reason that it has become the most popular solo spot, being run (I would guess) at a rate many times that of the other quests.

Not only is it a drag to grind characters' off-destinies, it puts players in an awkward position: "While grouping, do I run in the destiny that my character needs the exp, and therefore deliberately gimp myself and what I have to offer the party, or do I run in the destiny in which I am the most powerful, even though I no longer need any exp and will gain nothing but some random (useless) loot or a small chance at something that my character might want for now until the next expansion comes out and makes it look like junk?"

Most (good) players won't choose to group while in an off-destiny. Instead, they will spend time solo building their destinies and twists the way they think work best, then they can be at their most powerful when the group needs them the most. That means that they will seek the fastest and easiest epic quests that will allow them to solo through these off-destinies, making the suck over with as soon as possible. VON3 fits that bill perfectly. Fast, great exp/minute, decent level chests, and no chance of dying.

Reduce the exp in VON3 without addressing the suck factor of off-destiny leveling and all you are doing is telling players "we meant it to suck this much--stop trying to find a way around it."

Now, it does no good to offer criticism without also giving possible solutions, so what can be done to fix this? Some thoughts:

1. Allow us to designate a primary and a secondary destiny. The primary is the one that we are currently leveling in, and we have full access to the tree as we progress in it. The secondary is any other destiny that we have already unlocked. We can choose one ability from that destiny that we have unlocked and we get access to that ability (like a free twist of fate slot just for that), and we earn 1/2 exp in that destiny.

or

2. Forget about the shears and allow us to switch our active destiny a number of times per rest, perhaps once per epic sphere we have unlocked.

If you want to encourage people to run other quests than Von3, addressing the suck factor is more likely to get them there rather than taking away one of the things that your playerbase enjoys about the game. Increase the number of teleports available to casters to include locations in the Forgotten Realms. Make us explore outdoor zones but allow us to find more teleport locations near the dungeon entrances, so that we are only forced to explore to find them once per character. Increase the maximum achievable run speed (my favorite character in EQ was a Bard; I put up with the huge lack of power because he was faster than lightning when exploring the world).

And, for god's sake, 4200 commendations is just too many to grind out for an epic TR. Cut it by half at least.

mkmcgw17
01-12-2014, 05:18 PM
Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

• Chains of Flame (Epic only)
• Trial By Fury (Epic only)
• The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
• Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
• Outbreak (Epic only)
• In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)
• The House of Death Undone (Epic only)
• The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
• What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
• Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
• Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
• Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
• Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
• The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
• Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)

We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.

I don't see [insert quest name here] in this list. Does that mean that quest isn't going to be adjusted?

Just because a quest isn't listed here doesn't mean its XP won't be tweaked either up or down in a future release, or even for Update 21. We are definitely planning on more rounds of XP adjustments further on down the road.

For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?

As PurpleFooz explained in the fall (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427517-Quest-XP-Changes-for-Update-20?p=5126181&viewfull=1#post5126181), we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?

If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

Knockback
Senior Content Designer

Thanks for posting your plans and taking input. Do you take material submissions? I have about fifty quests on paper I created on paper for first edition DnD that i coiuld easily convert to the ddo campaign. I could change any of the elements of the quests I feel wont convert and probably come up with a three to four quest chain. I'd be willing to play test them on paper with a few friends and then submit it at no cost or obligation to you.

wooshrow
01-13-2014, 08:44 AM
If you have ideas .... <snip>

Knockback
Senior Content Designer

Fix your critical bugs, such as that with (free) lesser re-incarnation token. See :

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432196-Warning-Mean-bug-in-lesser-reincarnation!!

Sarzor
01-13-2014, 02:57 PM
Fix your critical bugs, such as that with (free) lesser re-incarnation token. See :

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432196-Warning-Mean-bug-in-lesser-reincarnation!!

This. OMG, this.

(p.s. - Coms)

Valthanas
01-13-2014, 10:43 PM
Stop reducing exp to try and drive players to either play differently (no zerging) or play your new content. You did this with the Cannith challenges when the players weren't running around in your brand new Eveningstar. Then you reduced the exp for Rusted Blades (albeit slightly) when everyone was window farming that quest and not running your other fancy new quests. If you roll out decent content, the players will follow. Brow beating us is not the answer. You already gave Von 3 a boost in a prior update, so stop...please just stop.

Fix the bugs first (especially Endless Smiting) and then we can talk about how quest experience should be calculated.

Icywave
01-14-2014, 12:36 AM
And, for god's sake, 4200 commendations is just too many to grind out for an epic TR. Cut it by half at least.

Yeah, then you would have it within one life's questing and Turbine would never sell Epic Hearts.

Simply won't happen. I don't get that people can't see that and keep on bringing this topic up.

Krelar
01-14-2014, 09:32 AM
Yeah, then you would have it within one life's questing and Turbine would never sell Epic Hearts.

Simply won't happen. I don't get that people can't see that and keep on bringing this topic up.

The reason it keeps coming up is because we were explicitly told by a dev that they expected someone who leveled up running epic hard quests to have enough for a heart by the time they hit level cap. As far as I know no one has actually achieved this.

If they had said all along that they expected you to earn some while leveling and then play another 30 quests (or whatever) at cap it wouldn't have been as big a deal. Turbine didn't they set an expectation that has not been met.

Spellburst
01-14-2014, 10:35 AM
VoN 3 has been coming. Hopefully it's only a small decrease.

But that's all people want to run to level. More xp in other quests, means hopefully people will be willing to run other stuff too.

My only suggestion would be to raise the xp of both House D Epics (Bargain of Blood, etc.) and Red Fens. Both those areas could use a boost (And loot overhaul, but I'll take an xp boost for now).

Completely agree. House D and Red Fens are rarely run at the moment. Any boost there would be welcome. Maybe the best way to look for quests that need a boost is to see how many times are run. Those run the least should be boosted. There is a lot of content in DDO... let's get advantage of that.

Guanmagi-1
01-14-2014, 11:10 AM
Completely agree. House D and Red Fens are rarely run at the moment. Any boost there would be welcome. Maybe the best way to look for quests that need a boost is to see how many times are run. Those run the least should be boosted. There is a lot of content in DDO... let's get advantage of that.

I race through EE fens pretty often. Easy bank favor and quick xp.

Grimlock
01-14-2014, 12:37 PM
Hello everyone! We're planning another round of quest XP adjustments for Update 21, and we'd like to get your thoughts.

We've been listening to your feedback, so this time around we're looking specifically at epic quests. The exact details are still somewhat fluid, but I can definitely say we've increased the experience for 17 quests. Those quests are:

• Chains of Flame (Epic only)
• Trial By Fury (Epic only)
• The Druid's Curse (Epic only)
• Thorn and Paw (Epic only)
• Outbreak (Epic only)
• In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)
• The House of Death Undone (Epic only)
• The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic)
• What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic)
• Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic)
• Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)
• Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic)
• Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic)
• The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic)
• Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic)
• A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)

We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)

Our goal is to get the XP numbers more in line with how long it takes to actually complete a quest. Some of the adjustments are minor - 6% more base XP for A Lesson in Deception, for example. Many of the changes are quite substantial. Ten of the quests have had their base XP raised by more than 20%. What Goes Up has had its base XP changed by ... Well, let's not ruin the surprise. Let's just say it's a nice, impressive number.

I don't see [insert quest name here] in this list. Does that mean that quest isn't going to be adjusted?

Just because a quest isn't listed here doesn't mean its XP won't be tweaked either up or down in a future release, or even for Update 21. We are definitely planning on more rounds of XP adjustments further on down the road.

For some quests we're just waiting for the right time to make the changes. For example, we'll be adjusting the Heroic XP in Three Barrel Cove when we add Epic mode to that area.

For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.


Why is this happening now? Why weren't these XP values changed earlier?

As PurpleFooz explained in the fall (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427517-Quest-XP-Changes-for-Update-20?p=5126181&viewfull=1#post5126181), we only recently got the ability to fine-tune XP - Epic XP in particular. We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.


Don't you think you should change [insert quest here]?

If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss!

Knockback
Senior Content Designer



Throwing in my 2 cents here but Turbine should realize by now taking away from the players hurts you guys more than it hurts us. Rather than fall into this standard you guys have of reinventing the wheel you still don't get that your main focus should be creating new content. Stop wasting time, man hours, and effort into finding ways to take away or tweak existing systems. Spend the resources your have available to flesh out Forgotten Realms, new Epic Destinies, and Epic Content not to mention adding new loot to the game.

Icywave
01-14-2014, 02:42 PM
The reason it keeps coming up is because we were explicitly told by a dev that they expected someone who leveled up running epic hard quests to have enough for a heart by the time they hit level cap. As far as I know no one has actually achieved this.

If they had said all along that they expected you to earn some while leveling and then play another 30 quests (or whatever) at cap it wouldn't have been as big a deal. Turbine didn't they set an expectation that has not been met.

Haven't seen that post. That could explain a few things.

ezmeweatherwax
01-14-2014, 03:27 PM
I still don't know why this xp was gimped to almost nothing in the first place. There is still valuable gear to be had here, but no one bothers any more. I'll skip past the issue of being unable to farm mats at L28 and go right for the xp problem.

The solution is simple: Raise it.

Challenges could be a good place to hit for L20-25 xp. True, buying time never should have been 100k, but, Rushmore? Rushmore runs so long most people absolutely refuse to run it, even when they are at a level to do so and in want of those exact mats, because the xp payout does not match the time spent in the actual challenge. Take a hard look at these challenges, devs, find your middle ground based on both difficulty and time spent, and adjust this xp back to the area of reason. Continuity guys...

There's little logic in not raising the xp here. A raise solves the issue of parsing through xp for all the traditional epics, gives more variety to people wanting to engage in an epic tr, and makes the entire area more palatable to players thus selling more packs. I can't remember the last time I've seen an LFM for House C challenges. LFMs for House C challenges have not existed for a very long time. You can post one, go AFK to clean your entire house and make dinner, come back, and not see a single hit. The xp/time ratio is a primary reason for this. At a time when more xp, not less, is needed, for both iconic and epic TRs, why not finally fix this issue?



Hold for Reinforcements is not on the list. I know it's not epic, but it needs to be on any xp modification list until it's fixed.
A forced 15min of stress over what that fool Coyle will do next, or what will jump on his head while he's knocked out, deserves more xp.


As for the rest, I think comms are more the issue, this list itself looks fine. I especially welcome druid's deep, those quests are rarely run due to the xp fail. But few will epic TR anyway until the comm situation is more palatable. Work on those numbers, raising comm numbers in relation to the xp raises you're putting on the listed quests.

Jasparion
01-14-2014, 04:02 PM
And, for god's sake, 4200 commendations is just too many to grind out for an epic TR. Cut it by half at least.

Lots of good points in this post. But I wanted to respond specifically to this. At 6.2m XP I have 1,480 Comms. I have run pretty much every Epic dungeon on EH, with just Druid's Deep to go. I have done EE VoN 5 and EH VoN 6, EH FoT, EN CitW and no other raids which give XP. I have run VoN 3 maybe 3 or 4 times. I repeated a couple of quests on EN for no Comms (some of the Seal Ring dungeons were run a few times - with no drops).

I have not used XP pots, and have taken the Comms from the end reward every time except maybe 2 or 3 times when there were really good options on offer.

I will hit level 28 with maybe 2,000 Comms.

Turbine, we have shown you dozens, if not hundreds of examples where we show your maths is wrong. When will you come out and just admit that you chose a very high number because you wanted to get store sales? At least be honest.

Icywave
01-14-2014, 04:27 PM
Turbine, we have shown you dozens, if not hundreds of examples where we show your maths is wrong. When will you come out and just admit that you chose a very high number because you wanted to get store sales? At least be honest.

After so many threads on the matter.. yeah, it's obvious :)

Jasparion
01-14-2014, 06:25 PM
After so many threads on the matter.. yeah, it's obvious :)

Not only that, its legitimate. It is perfectly reasonable for them to say that they are a company run for profit, without which, we would have no game. I know someone who has bought 8 or 10 stones/boxes - he is one of the reasons why they havent reduced the cost yet. He is giving them extra $$$, while we are wanting to earn something with the money we have already paid.

Turbine should just be truthful about it, and not feel the need to make up stories about how the research showed that a player running EH content can get 4,200 Comms at level 28. We are running all the content on EH to get to 28 and will barely have 2,000 Comms.

The only way I can see us getting to even 3,000 in a life is if we ignore all of Eberron and run all content at 2 or 3 levels higher than us, focus only on the terrible XP dungeons, repeat them all daily but never more than once per day, and hate ourselves and everyone we've ever met in our lives.

I have absolutely no idea how we would get to 4,200 in a single life. I suspect it would involve no Ship XP buff or pots (we cant turn off our XP Tomes), deliberately dying and re-entering to reduce the XP, and also doing only the very worst XP dungeons on EH (because EN isnt far behind on XP, but can give a lot less Comms).

When they improve the XP with the FR dungeons it actually becomes even harder to get to 4,200 Comms. Yet we have had no work from any Devs on this.

Icywave
01-14-2014, 06:28 PM
Yes, it is legitimate.

2,100 comms in one life, running EHs, is totally fair. That's one free heart for every 2 lives.

Personal opinion, that is.

swadesblynx
01-15-2014, 01:00 PM
ty bunches for always trying to keep the game interesting and fun to play. :)

MeliCat
01-15-2014, 03:01 PM
Thank you for bumping the xp on those Wheloon and Stormhorns quests. We were talking just recently about how lackluster they were. No surprise about von3. But hey it was getting boring. 'Daily von3!' lfms were a bit of a giveaway that this was an obvious nerfage candidate.


If you have ideas for which specific quests should be adjusted (or not adjusted) and why, this thread is the perfect place to talk about it. Please use this thread to discuss

I know it's still good xp, but doing The Pit again last night (which always takes me ages solo) I still think it's worthy of another bump in xp. It's a really hard quest on elite at level and gets ignored by a lot of people because of that. But if you made that carrot a little bit bigger I bet more people would give it a go.

There are others and other optionals were I have thought 'that's lame' but I've forgotten them... will edit when I remember...

Jasparion
01-15-2014, 04:07 PM
Yes, it is legitimate.

2,100 comms in one life, running EHs, is totally fair. That's one free heart for every 2 lives.

Personal opinion, that is.

Except they said we could get it in a single life of EH.

Well, I hit 28 last night. Ran all Epic content on EH, repeated some stuff on EH, did a couple of raids, did a couple of repeats of VoN 3 and some Seal ring dungeons.

My total: 1,800 Comms.

I didnt take any Saga XP, only Skill Tomes. I didnt do any Slayer areas - where possible we zerged through on the Heroic version to save time getting to the dungeon. I didnt use any XP Pots.

I did use 5% Ship buff, I did use the Epic XP Tome. I dont believe there were any Bonus XP weekends in play during the time I did my run from 20 to 28. There were no Bonus Comms in play during this time either. And in all the dungeons I ran, I took maybe 2 or 3 rewards other than Comms.

So there you have it Turbine. 1,800 Comms doing it pretty much exactly how you said it could be done to earn 4,200 in a single life.

Now, please show your proof.

Or admit that you dont care because lots of people are still buying Hearts.

By my calculation, I need to run another 80 EH quests at level 28 in order to earn my Heart. And that is assuming I am still giving up on Renown and good loot.

Please, tell me this is how you honestly want the game to work in the long run?

Or please just tell me that its only for a little while longer, until the cashed up players stop buying Hearts - and then you will bring the number down to 2,500 or 3,000, or significantly increase the number that are in the End Reward lists - or even better, fix it so they drop in the End Dungeon chests.

Acaios
01-15-2014, 04:53 PM
a bit irrelevant to the xp topic, sorry about that, but these are 2 interesting changes i`d like to see in the future:

1)ransack timer should start from the 1st completion. not the last.
i`ll give an example. i used to run daily on my sorc e/h high road,wheloon,stormhorns for xp,coms and saga. but some days, when i had a few hours extra for ddo, i ran wheloon and stormhorns once again, for their chain reward. which took me about 3.5 extra hours (1hour was only the WGU!).
the next day, when i was to run again that saga chain, i couldnt, coz i had to wait about 3.5 more hours for the ransack timer. or even more, since in between those 3.5 hours for the 2nd run in the 2 chains, an interesting raid lfm might had showed up, and that postponed the chain farming by even one or so hour.

2) /ransack should also inform about the time still left, like /quest does. and if possible, the list should be sortied by the most recent quest to be offtimer, to the later ones.

Icywave
01-15-2014, 04:56 PM
Except they said we could get it in a single life of EH.

Well, I hit 28 last night. Ran all Epic content on EH, repeated some stuff on EH, did a couple of raids, did a couple of repeats of VoN 3 and some Seal ring dungeons.

My total: 1,800 Comms.

I didnt take any Saga XP, only Skill Tomes. I didnt do any Slayer areas - where possible we zerged through on the Heroic version to save time getting to the dungeon. I didnt use any XP Pots.

I did use 5% Ship buff, I did use the Epic XP Tome. I dont believe there were any Bonus XP weekends in play during the time I did my run from 20 to 28. There were no Bonus Comms in play during this time either. And in all the dungeons I ran, I took maybe 2 or 3 rewards other than Comms.

So there you have it Turbine. 1,800 Comms doing it pretty much exactly how you said it could be done to earn 4,200 in a single life.

Now, please show your proof.

Or admit that you dont care because lots of people are still buying Hearts.

By my calculation, I need to run another 80 EH quests at level 28 in order to earn my Heart. And that is assuming I am still giving up on Renown and good loot.

Please, tell me this is how you honestly want the game to work in the long run?

Or please just tell me that its only for a little while longer, until the cashed up players stop buying Hearts - and then you will bring the number down to 2,500 or 3,000, or significantly increase the number that are in the End Reward lists - or even better, fix it so they drop in the End Dungeon chests.

if EH would give 2,100, I think that's fair.

I guess SAGAs could reward you with a few hundred CoV.... that would get people to go through the various quests. Just an idea.

Icywave
01-15-2014, 04:58 PM
a bit irrelevant to the xp topic, sorry about that, but these are 2 interesting changes i`d like to see in the future:

2) /ransack should also inform about the time still left, like /quest does. and if possible, the list should be sortied by the most recent quest to be offtimer, to the later ones.

That I agree with. Would be nice if such data gets to be part of the changes they wanna do for the Adventure Compendium info.

Jasparion
01-15-2014, 05:10 PM
if EH would give 2,100, I think that's fair.

I guess SAGAs could reward you with a few hundred CoV.... that would get people to go through the various quests. Just an idea.

Except it goes against their stated policy of providing enough Comms so that a single life of EH runs will get us pretty much there. Half way is not "pretty much there".

I would think 20 runs at level 28 is fine. Its about what we needed for Herioc TRs (if we didnt do 5 minute challenges over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over).

80 runs is not fine. Not even making it half way is not fine.

And the thing is, the XP buffs to the higher level Epics mean we will get even fewer Comms on our trip to 28. So this makes it even harder, meaning we are even more likely to have to buy Hearts.

Icywave
01-15-2014, 05:13 PM
Except it goes against their stated policy of providing enough Comms so that a single life of EH runs will get us pretty much there. Half way is not "pretty much there".


Link the stated policy then. Henceforth I'll be in agreement with it :)

oradafu
01-15-2014, 06:34 PM
Link the stated policy then. Henceforth I'll be in agreement with it :)


Urhmmm...



Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).

Jasparion
01-15-2014, 08:09 PM
Urhmmm...

Looks like I overstated their policy. V said "usually" which I would say is maybe 75% of the time. I took them more than 95% of the time and still managed to not even get half.

Qhualor
01-15-2014, 08:12 PM
yeah, Vargouille was only off by about a hundred or so :p

Icywave
01-15-2014, 08:51 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).


CURRENT PLAN....

But yeah, I can see how people got to be angry on the matter, since reality isn't matching their expectations. False hopes were given.

I bet there were no further posts from Devs on the matter afterwards? Anyway ... My feeling is that financial reality hit them after that said " current plan ".

oradafu
01-15-2014, 09:31 PM
Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
Our current plan is that Iconic and Epic Hearts of Wood each require 4200 Commendations of Valor. This is close to our estimate of how many Commendations of Valor you would get from playing Epic Hard, non-ransacked quests and usually taking Commendations as the end reward, based on how many quests characters would finish between levels 20-28 (again, on Epic Hard).


CURRENT PLAN....

But yeah, I can see how people got to be angry on the matter, since reality isn't matching their expectations. False hopes were given.

I bet there were no further posts from Devs on the matter afterwards? Anyway ... My feeling is that financial reality hit them after that said " current plan ".

There were replies afterward. I'm too bored to look them up, but the replies were basically that players who were complaining were playing it wrong because playing strictly Epic Elite without ransack results in close enough CoVs to get Epic and Iconic Hearts. So they moved the goalposts and didn't announce it until well after players found out about it, even though they assured us that we could gather almost enough CoVs by sticking to the Epic Hard non-ransack leveling.

BTW, financial reality had already hit them when they were scrambling about because of those plans. The whole statement that Varg's quote came was in response to a mass protest that went hand-in-hand with a mass subscription cancellation. So that whole post and thread was a response to calm players down over a series of year long horrible directions for the game, which came to a head when CoVs and Epic/Iconic Hearts were introduced.

Icywave
01-15-2014, 09:35 PM
There were replies afterward. I'm too bored to look them up, but the replies were basically that players who were complaining were playing it wrong because playing strictly Epic Elite without ransack results in close enough CoVs to get Epic and Iconic Hearts. So they moved the goalposts and didn't announce it until well after players found out about it, even though they assured us that we could gather almost enough CoVs by sticking to the Epic Hard non-ransack leveling.

BTW, financial reality had already hit them when they were scrambling about because of those plans. The whole statement that Varg's quote came was in response to a mass protest that went hand-in-hand with a mass subscription cancellation. So that whole post and thread was a response to calm players down over a series of year long horrible directions for the game, which came to a head when CoVs and Epic/Iconic Hearts were introduced.

Well, their math is wrong, I run mainly EH/EEs... and ****... it so doesn't add up.

Alright, ain't adding to this.

lyrecono
01-16-2014, 05:04 AM
just capped a epic life, all the quests done on EH no more then once per day.
von3 played twice a week, no more.
Von 5&6 only played once this life
Killed 2 optionals in EGH wilderness area
2000!!! commendations of vallor (failure) short to epic tr-ing again.

Turbine, why do you think people don't take you serious anymore?
Dev's, fix this vallor thing asap!

tephra
01-19-2014, 12:47 PM
My feed back is that it is a bad idea to change the exp in von 3. It is a nice treat and a little motivating to be able to move the needle toward cap with a bigger exp quest. 6.6 million exp is a long way to go.

DDO continuously moves the goal posts, and it is becoming tedious to: adapt, ddo changes, adapt again, repeat. Leave this one alone.

xaul17
01-20-2014, 02:14 AM
Hello!
I know you are focusing on epic quests, however there are a few low to mid level heroics that I feel badly need an upgrade due to quest length/difficulty:

- Taming the Flames
- Caverns of Korromar
- Hiding in Plain Sight
- Freshen the Air
- Proof is in the Poison

On the subject of VoN III - I am not going to say I am happy that you are doing this, but I see why you are. If it were up to me, I'd wait on this one until there are enough quests in the epic lvl range to make up for it. As of right now, players have no choice but to repeat the same content over and over in order to cap, and having this extra boost in the mix really helps.

PsychoBlonde
01-23-2014, 07:44 PM
Please consider increasing the XP for *repeats* on epic challenges in both challenge packs. I enjoy doing these, but the repeat xp is too low now, IMO. I realize it was too high at one point, but a nice middle ground would be appreciated.

The optionals in the Phiarlan Carnival and Sentinels chain quests need a big buff, and the quests themselves could use a medium sized xp buff.

sneerie
01-24-2014, 03:54 PM
- travel time to the quest should be considered when considering 'how long to complete'. DQ1, Chains of Flame, Many 3BC, are just a few that should get a boost.
- optional xp needs to be boosted, especially for those more complicated than simple optional orange/red named bosses.

Eclaveriia
01-30-2014, 07:23 AM
EN Von 3--100k in 7ish minutes might be a bit over the top compared to, I don't know... EVERYTHING ELSE. I applaud this change (even though I currently run it a lot now).

As mentioned above, Epic Cabal needs a bump.
I'd also bump Feast or Famine.

Although you said specifically epic quests, Hold for Reinforcements needs the base XP increased by about 1000%!!!

I am not sold on the 7sh minute mark as an actual benchmark. What can a 1st life party of players on their 1st characters do it in?? That's what EN should be based around.

Hard and Elite should be based on more experienced players though.

Hendrik
01-30-2014, 09:44 AM
- travel time to the quest should be considered when considering 'how long to complete'. DQ1, Chains of Flame, Many 3BC, are just a few that should get a boost.
- optional xp needs to be boosted, especially for those more complicated than simple optional orange/red named bosses.

If you want to consider travel time to increase XP then you would have to lower XP for all those Quests that take no time to get to.

You did not look at the other side of the coin nor think this through.

FalseFlag
02-01-2014, 01:39 PM
The new content is more fun than running VON3 oodles of times
It really is not.

EllisDee37
02-01-2014, 02:25 PM
Please consider increasing the XP for *repeats* on epic challenges in both challenge packs. I enjoy doing these, but the repeat xp is too low now, IMO. I realize it was too high at one point, but a nice middle ground would be appreciated.Cannith challenge xp was never too high. It was 3k/minute sustainable, less than a third of the 10k/minute sustainable in rusted blades. (Later eclipsed by Impossible Demands when people figured out how to bug the priestess to prevent her going through the first door.)

Running quests now, when you factor in running to the quest and taking periodic breaks/ship rebuffs, you can fairly easily maintain 3-4k/minute over a period of hours. The old 3k/minute from cannith challenges is what it should be restored to.

They nerfed cannith challenge xp because they designed eveningstar challenges poorly, and for whatever reason they married the two challenge systems together with a single xp formula. So when they were forced to scramble to fix the eveningstar challenge exploit they nerfed cannith challenges into oblivion as a side effect.

Cannith challenges have never recovered, and in all likelihood never will. Last year the devs implemented their promised xp buff for cannith challenges, if you can believe it. They are still around 800/minute if you're good. It's truly sad; that content was quite fun for some of us.

But alas, cannith challenges are now and forever more in the "don't ever buy this, the pack isn't worth even 25 TP" category. They are the least attractive content purchase in the entire game, and by a wide margin. I love running cannith challenges, and I actively discourage anyone and everyone from buying them.

Nodoze
02-01-2014, 02:37 PM
Cannith challenge xp was never too high. It was 3k/minute sustainable, less than a third of the 10k/minute sustainable in rusted blades. (Later eclipsed by Impossible Demands when people figured out how to bug the priestess to prevent her going through the first door.)

Running quests now, when you factor in running to the quest and taking periodic breaks/ship rebuffs, you can fairly easily maintain 3-4k/minute over a period of hours. The old 3k/minute from cannith challenges is what it should be restored to.

They nerfed cannith challenge xp because they designed eveningstar challenges poorly, and for whatever reason they married the two challenge systems together with a single xp formula. So when they were forced to scramble to fix the eveningstar challenge exploit they nerfed cannith challenges into oblivion as a side effect.

Cannith challenges have never recovered, and in all likelihood never will. Last year the devs implemented their promised xp buff for cannith challenges, if you can believe it. They are still around 800/minute if you're good. It's truly sad; that content was quite fun for some of us.

But alas, cannith challenges are now and forever more in the "don't ever buy this, the pack isn't worth even 25 TP" category. They are the least attractive content purchase in the entire game, and by a wide margin. I love running cannith challenges, and I actively discourage anyone and everyone from buying them.I agree and liked them also. Cannith challenges also had some decent gear rewards to get after the effort as well. They should release ML24, ML28, &/or ML30 versions when the time comes.

Danielson99
02-09-2014, 03:58 PM
If you want to consider travel time to increase XP then you would have to lower XP for all those Quests that take no time to get to.

You did not look at the other side of the coin nor think this through.

That makes no sense at all. You can easily do one, or the other. Increase xp for quests based on 'total time' to complete including getting to the quest OR reduce the xp for quests based on 'total time' including getting to the quest.

You're making a huge error assuming you "have to" lower xp for all Quests that take no time to get to.

Jasparion
02-09-2014, 04:56 PM
If you want to consider travel time to increase XP then you would have to lower XP for all those Quests that take no time to get to.

You did not look at the other side of the coin nor think this through.

That makes zero sense.

In other news, I have now gone to 28 twice, and have another toon that is close to 28 - having started at 25 when the Comms came out. Almost always doing EH, with very little repeating of dungeons - though my other toon which went from 25 to close to 28 has done VON3 6 or 8 times.

I have a grand total of 4,300 Comms.

So in over 16 million XP where I have almost exclusively taken the Comms, I have barely made enough to get a single Heart.

I would once again like to request of the Devs the spreadsheet they used to calculate that we will get approximately 4,200 Comms on a single run from 20 to 28.


Cannith challenge xp was never too high. It was 3k/minute sustainable, less than a third of the 10k/minute sustainable in rusted blades. (Later eclipsed by Impossible Demands when people figured out how to bug the priestess to prevent her going through the first door.)

For a brief period of time you could get over 200k XP in a 10 minute challenge which could be 6-starred fairly easily. That needed nerfing, but the problem is, they nerfed so much that it is now pointless to run any of them more than once a life - and many of them arent even worth running once.

They sold a LOT of packs because of a chest thing. They sold a LOT of packs because of an XP thing. Then they took both away. And the crafting has fallen SO far behind random loot you can find on the Auction House so you now never see anyone bother with it.

EllisDee37
02-09-2014, 11:29 PM
For a brief period of time you could get over 200k XP in a 10 minute challenge which could be 6-starred fairly easily. That needed nerfing, but the problem is, they nerfed so much that it is now pointless to run any of them more than once a life - and many of them arent even worth running once.That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

whereispowderedsilve
02-09-2014, 11:44 PM
That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

Amen brother! Preach it! Hey Steelstar care to comment? Especially *after* the 1st run! House C challenges! Show us some love! Please!

P.S. Increase House C challenges CR to 30 to match the estar challenges! You can do it! Come on!

Asking nicely/sincerely/politely! It would be greatly appreciated! :P! :)! :D!

Ancient
02-10-2014, 12:03 AM
That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

And after it got nerfed and nerfed again... yay, they nerfed one more time from orbit... it was the only way to be sure.

Ivan_Milic
02-10-2014, 07:51 AM
For a brief period of time you could get over 200k XP in a 10 minute challenge which could be 6-starred fairly easily. That needed nerfing, but the problem is, they nerfed so much that it is now pointless to run any of them more than once a life - and many of them arent even worth running once.

They sold a LOT of packs because of a chest thing. They sold a LOT of packs because of an XP thing. Then they took both away. And the crafting has fallen SO far behind random loot you can find on the Auction House so you now never see anyone bother with it.
That was challenge in eveningstar, house c challenges never gave even close to that amount and they nerfed house c 2 or 3 times, then devs had the audacity to write they will switch it back.

Oxarhamar
02-10-2014, 04:48 PM
That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

Yeah you couldn't get 200k XP in Cannith but, I do recall getting at least 100K in the Extra planar dragon ones before the nerfs on a first time go.

I use to solo these for 4-5 star at level 18 to cap when the XP was good depending on build now I wouldn't touch it for XP.


IMO for a first time 6 star you should be getting huge XP that's no easy task.

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 05:02 PM
That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

Are you sure? I recall MrCow getting up around the 200k mark in his Diaries. And they did need nerfing on the 1st run, but they needed buffing on the repeat runs. Especially when random loot pretty much invalidated all the crafting gear.

EllisDee37
02-10-2014, 07:12 PM
Are you sure? I recall MrCow getting up around the 200k mark in his Diaries. And they did need nerfing on the 1st run, but they needed buffing on the repeat runs. Especially when random loot pretty much invalidated all the crafting gear.I suspect you're remembering his Eveningstar runs.

jskinner937
02-10-2014, 09:46 PM
That was challenge in eveningstar, house c challenges never gave even close to that amount and they nerfed house c 2 or 3 times, then devs had the audacity to write they will switch it back.

Wrong. Back when they were released you couldget 300k ith 1st time bonus in a 5min quest on a patcular house C challenge and 150k on repeats.

whereispowderedsilve
02-10-2014, 09:52 PM
Wrong. Back when they were released you couldget 300k ith 1st time bonus in a 5min quest on a patcular house C challenge and 150k on repeats.

Oh? I'm sure Ellis will want to chime in on here/on this one. Heh.

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 10:04 PM
I suspect you're remembering his Eveningstar runs.


Wrong. Back when they were released you couldget 300k ith 1st time bonus in a 5min quest on a patcular house C challenge and 150k on repeats.

Yeah, this is what I remember too. Though Im not sure if MrCow was doing a 5 min quest for 300k - I think it was 200k for a 10 min quest. And he used to get some pretty crazy numbers for the Mansion runs as well.

EllisDee37
02-11-2014, 02:27 AM
Wrong. Back when they were released you couldget 300k ith 1st time bonus in a 5min quest on a patcular house C challenge and 150k on repeats.Ha! No you could not.

Back when they were released, there was no such thing as epic XP. You're saying 300k HEROIC xp in a 5 minute challenge, followed by 30k/minute HEROIC xp sustained? Yeah, not a chance.


Yeah, this is what I remember too. Though Im not sure if MrCow was doing a 5 min quest for 300k - I think it was 200k for a 10 min quest. And he used to get some pretty crazy numbers for the Mansion runs as well.Mansion runs are very long. And the 200k in 10 minutes sounds like something MrCow would have posted a video of.

jskinner937
02-11-2014, 10:10 PM
Ha! No you could not.

Back when they were released, there was no such thing as epic XP. You're saying 300k HEROIC xp in a 5 minute challenge, followed by 30k/minute HEROIC xp sustained? Yeah, not a chance.

Mansion runs are very long. And the 200k in 10 minutes sounds like something MrCow would have posted a video of.

No it was not heroic xp back either technically it was just xp. And you could do lvl 25 epic buying time for 300kxp and change buffed up with a pot and first time bonus and 6 stars.

jskinner937
02-11-2014, 10:14 PM
That was not a Cannith challenge, that was an Eveningstar challenge. I was specifically talking about Cannith challenges, which never gave too much xp and yet were drastically reduced.

Cannith challenges never needed nerfing, yet they got nerfed so, so hard.

And I am sorry you obviously are speaking on a subject you know little about if you do not know this.

jskinner937
02-11-2014, 11:12 PM
And just because I can see you are stubborn and its fun to prove stubborn people wrong here is a link for you to read in another good challenge which is 3min and could net you 250k with a pot going...too bad you can search for old forum posts easily....

http://www.gamergeoff.com/level-25-solo-challenges-are-challenging/

This is a house C challenge, and was not even the best one for xp.

EllisDee37
02-12-2014, 04:48 PM
And just because I can see you are stubborn and its fun to prove stubborn people wrong here is a link for you to read in another good challenge which is 3min and could net you 250k with a pot going...too bad you can search for old forum posts easily....

http://www.gamergeoff.com/level-25-solo-challenges-are-challenging/

This is a house C challenge, and was not even the best one for xp.I'm going to go ahead and discard that for two reasons:

1) It specifically said that the 150k was from a first-time bonus.
2) There is no such thing as a "3 minute" challenge. They are all 5 minutes at the absolute minimum.

You'd think an expert in challenges such as yourself would know that there are no 3 minute challenges. We're still a far cry from "150k in 5 minutes on repeats" as you claim.

jskinner937
02-12-2014, 06:11 PM
Yeah and one time bonuses were changed as well...now you only get a one time bonus per star achieved. Whatever anyways you are right no matter what huh. I really don't care what you think personally, but those of us that used to farm challenges for xp back when they were good know. I even had a friend that went from 1-20 in 24 hours running buying time only that's how absurd it was.

EllisDee37
02-12-2014, 06:21 PM
Yeah and one time bonuses were changed as well...now you only get a one time bonus per star achieved. Whatever anyways you are right no matter what huh. I really don't care what you think personally, but those of us that used to farm challenges for xp back when they were good know. I even had a friend that went from 1-20 in 24 hours running buying time only that's how absurd it was.How about actual evidence? There are tons of old youtube videos showing how to get xp out of challenges. Here's a video showing a low level alt xp farming an epic challenge:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDwefYGsONg

Notice that the 8-minute run grants 17k xp. (EDIT: It's actually a 10-minute run. Looks like a buddy started the challenge, then the guy capturing video joined two minutes later.)

I'd also like to point out how you just contradicted yourself:

1-20 in 24 hours running buying time only that's how absurd it was

24 hours?! That's an ETERNITY when you're getting 30k/minute, as you claim. Remember, your claim is that you used to be able to get repeatable (NOT first time bonus) 150k per 5 minute run. Let's do that math, shall we?

Old xp cap on a 3rd life: 4.3 million. 30k/minute. 4.3 million / 30k = 143 minutes. That's right, you're claiming that challenges used to give so much xp that you could do an entire legend life in UNDER THREE HOURS.

This is why I know you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Your claims are patently absurd. Here, I'll quote your claim as a refresher:


Wrong. Back when they were released you couldget 300k ith 1st time bonus in a 5min quest on a patcular house C challenge and 150k on repeats.

Still standing by this?

jskinner937
02-13-2014, 08:23 AM
Buying time is 5min.

Find me a video of xp farming on you tube at that time? I looked. People didn't publicized it because everyone knew they xp scaling was not WAI.

I am one with this subject by the way, but you go ahead and keep protecting your supposed knowledge on this, I have more important things to worry about, like real life.

EllisDee37
02-13-2014, 03:41 PM
Buying time is 5min.

Find me a video of xp farming on you tube at that time? I looked. People didn't publicized it because everyone knew they xp scaling was not WAI.

I am one with this subject by the way, but you go ahead and keep protecting your supposed knowledge on this, I have more important things to worry about, like real life.At 150k per 5 minutes why did it take you 24 hours to level from 1 to 20? It should be under 3 hours even on a legend build. You do not respond to this because you realize that this proves your wild claim is completely baseless.

Here's what I think: You guys were entering epic Buying Time for 5:00 runs @ around 4-5k with a pot, maybe upwards of 6k/minute. This would let you go from 1 to 20 on a first life in six and half hours of solid grind, so figure 9-10 hours with breaks and whatnot. This is consistent with your "leveled to 20 in 24 hours" claim. (On legend build that would be 14 hours of solid grind, so still possible in 24 hours if you're crazy.)

That 4-5k/minute is NOT too much epic xp. It's only too much if heroic levels can get it. Your silly claims of 30k/minute do nothing but derail an intelligent debate on whether cannith challenges needed nerfing. They most certainly did not. All they needed was to prevent heroic levels from running epic challenges.

Right now in the game today it is pretty easy to maintain 4-5k/minute in quests sustained, for hours a day, every day, including time to rebuff every hour and run to the quests. (Some of those runs are long.) That's with just 5% cannith xp pots.

With that as the baseline for quests, the old cannith challenge epic xp of just over 3k/minute with 5% pots is probably too low. Too bad they double-nerfed that 3k/minute down to 800/minute, rendering cannith challenges utterly useless.

If the old 3k/minute with "free" 5% pots was restored right now people would say cannith challenge xp isn't worth bothering with because a) you can get better sustained xp/minute from questing and b) challenges do not give commendations of valor.

Mosasi
02-13-2014, 05:33 PM
The Wheloon and Storm Horns chains could use a further bump, save for maybe What Goes Up Epic which looks nice. I would focus a bit on the heroic versions of Wheloon/Storm Horns as the experience bumps were on the small side, and those quests give rather low experience to begin with compared to other quests of the same level (imo anyways).

The druids curse chain is kind of a disaster - in that two of the four quests are really short, and so can't really get boosted much more without becoming a new "von3"-esque farm. However, Thorn and Paw and The Druids Curse could likely stand from some attention.

Cannith challenges were brought up by the players, and could definitely benefit from attention. They are a "love or hate" type of quest, but I personally loved them. However, they are the type of quest that no one really wants to do - only "need" to do for a specific item. Which I get, but it is disappointing as I found them to be enjoyable.

Jasparion
02-13-2014, 06:15 PM
I think Ive only ever run a single heroic FR dungeon (a Wheloon one because I think I have a level 15 necklace with 8% dodge). It would require some insane XP boosts for me to consider going to level from 15 to 20.

wildbynature
02-18-2014, 03:28 PM
I run some of these quests more often than others. If it helps, I'll go through every quest and tell you how often I run it and whether increasing the xp will entice me to run it more often.

• Chains of Flame (Epic only)--I hate this quest. The only way you could entice me to run it more often would be if you told me I had to reflag demon queen every epic life or allowed me to teleport straight out to the quest.


• Trial By Fury (Epic only)--increasing the xp would probably make me think about running it more, but only in guild groups. It's not that the slayer area is too much of a pain, but there always seems to be at least one person who doesn't know it, falls off, gets himself separated, and expects me to help him find the quest.


• The Druid's Curse (Epic only) Thorn and Paw (Epic only) Outbreak (Epic only)--increasing the xp would definitely entice me to run this chain more often. The poor xp is actually the only reason why I don't run it often.


• In The Belly of the Beast (Epic only)--I love this quest. I hope to see more pugs up for this one after the xp increases.


• The House of Death Undone (Epic only)--this quest only takes a few minutes. I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the xp, but I think increasing the optional xp would be smarter.


• The Tracker's Trap (both Epic and Heroic). What Goes Up (both Epic and Heroic). Breaking the Ranks (both Epic and Heroic). A Break in the Ice (both Epic and Heroic). Lines of Supply (both Epic and Heroic)--I'm so happy this chain is getting more xp. It's super fun, and I think the xp increase will give people a better reason to run it.


• Army of Shadow (both Epic and Heroic). Through a Mirror Darkly (both Epic and Heroic). The Thrill of the Hunt (both Epic and Heroic). Friends in Low Places (both Epic and Heroic). A Lesson in Deception (both Epic and Heroic)-- this is another one that I think people run less frequently less because of xp and more because of other reasons. For me, I dot think an xp increase would entice me to run it anymore. The massive mob spawns in many of the quests cause too much lag for xp to entice me.

We’re also planning to reduce the XP for one quest (on Epic only):

• Jungle of Khyber (Epic only)--I'll actually be really happy when I don't feel like I have to run VoN 3 every day. I'm all for this one.

MangLord
03-14-2014, 06:00 PM
For the sheer terribleness, Friends in Low Places should be on par with what VoN3 xp used to be in order to entice anyone to run it. That quest is the worst. I would suffer through it once a week for a 100k reward. Thrill of the Hunt is a close second. Howlers suck, but shadows are hair-pulling annoying.