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Failedlegend
01-05-2014, 02:54 PM
Just a simple Sorc for my friend who loves Lightning spells and pointy ears...single class is mostly because she loves the fact that she gets to be an elemental..she also wants to be able to do some CC hence the SF/GSF/ESF:Enchant luckily the SLAs from Savant give Sorcs alot more room to do that now despite limited spell slots.

This build will be duoing with my Master of Saves (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432522-Help-me-find-the-Highest-Possible-Overall-Saves-%28Heroic-Self-Buffed-Only%29?p=5217086&viewfull=1#post5217086)


H-Elf Sorc20 (Air Savant)

Con 16
Int 14
Cha 18

Skills: Concen, Spellcraft, UMD, Balance

H1 FvS or Pally Dilletante
1 Empower
3 Maximize
6 SF:Evo
9 SF: Enchant
12 Heighten
15 GSF: Evo
18 GSF: Enchant
ED Draconic Incarnation
21 ESF: Evocation
24 ESF: Enchant
26 ESP: Elec
27 Ruin or Epic Cha
28 ESF: Concen

Note: Whilst I refuse to use spellcraft I don't want to punish my friend by not allowing her to use it, hence why it has spellcraft

thesnoman
01-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Note: Whilst I refuse to use spellcraft I don't want to punish my friend by not allowing her to use it, hence why it has spellcraft


Just curious as to why you don't use Spellcraft.

Are you bitter about how DDO evolved?
Are you stuck in the past?
Do you not want the most powerful caster possible?

Give me a legitimate reason since that's what this post is really about (you posted a basic Sorc Build and threw that line into the water at the end of your post. I'm guilty...I bit)

Failedlegend
01-05-2014, 11:00 PM
Just curious as to why you don't use Spellcraft.

Are you bitter about how DDO evolved?
Are you stuck in the past?
Do you not want the most powerful caster possible?

Give me a legitimate reason since that's what this post is really about (you posted a basic Sorc Build and threw that line into the water at the end of your post. I'm guilty...I bit)

The changes to spellcraft has punished basically every class except Arties or Wizards by forcing them to spend build points on Int. If the devs wanted to add a way for spellcasters to increase spellpower it should be based on their caster stat not all on Int. Thats like making it so there's a new wisdom based skill called "Tactical Sense" that increases melee damage...huge bonus for Monks PITA for anyone else.

Same deal with Heal being a giant slap in the face to palemasters so wizards don't exactly get away scott free.

Also There was plenty of fantastic ideas for heal/repair so its a waste of those skills possibilities.

All that said can we focus on the build that was just an aside to clarify why spellcraft is listed

Wizza
01-06-2014, 05:44 AM
The changes to spellcraft has punished basically every class except Arties or Wizards by forcing them to spend build points on Int. If the devs wanted to add a way for spellcasters to increase spellpower it should be based on their caster stat not all on Int. Thats like making it so there's a new wisdom based skill called "Tactical Sense" that increases melee damage...huge bonus for Monks PITA for anyone else.

Same deal with Heal being a giant slap in the face to palemasters so wizards don't exactly get away scott free.

Also There was plenty of fantastic ideas for heal/repair so its a waste of those skills possibilities.

All that said can we focus on the build that was just an aside to clarify why spellcraft is listed

Why spellcraft is listed is obvious. It's your last statement that is off topic. You don't like Spellcraft but that's taking away over 70 spellpower on your caster: it's a big deal.

Build looks pretty standard. Hellball > ESF: Concentration. Nothing more to add really.

SirValentine
01-06-2014, 06:19 AM
You don't like Spellcraft but that's taking away over 70 spellpower on your caster: it's a big deal.


Talking about a Sorc here, right? 23 ranks, a +20 item, say...where's all the rest of that "over 70" coming from? That looks like more of a Wiz figure than Sorc.

Wizza
01-06-2014, 06:35 AM
Talking about a Sorc here, right? 23 ranks, a +20 item, say...where's all the rest of that "over 70" coming from? That looks like more of a Wiz figure than Sorc.

My sorc is currently at 63+ (not sure exactly).

I don't want to log in but

23 Ranks
15 Item
10 Int Mod
8 Epic levels
3 tome
+6 Exceptional Int Skills
--------------
65
+4 GH
---------------
69


Still room for more with a 20 item.

thesnoman
01-06-2014, 06:36 AM
The changes to spellcraft has punished basically every class except Arties or Wizards by forcing them to spend build points on Int. <SNIP>
Also There was plenty of fantastic ideas for heal/repair so its a waste of those skills possibilities.

All that said can we focus on the build that was just an aside to clarify why spellcraft is listed

Your first point is invalid - at 1 Spellcraft per two points of Intelligence, you're losing a max of 5 Spellcraft (if you keep 8 INT/10 Int as Drow) - the "punishment" is much less than you think.

Your point about heal/repair - again - no big deal. I max Repair on my WF Sorcs now and lose out on Balance - it's a trade off I'll take to make the skill no longer useless.

As for the build - Basic CC Sorc Build - nothing special and nothing new here. Wizza's advice is solid regarding Hellball.


Talking about a Sorc here, right? 23 ranks, a +20 item, say...where's all the rest of that "over 70" coming from? That looks like more of a Wiz figure than Sorc.

23 Ranks + 8 Epic Levels + 9 Int Modifier (14 + 10 item + 4 Tome) + 20 Item = 60 Spellcraft

I know I can get over 70 on my Toaster Build, I know it's 4 from GH and 1 from Charisma Ship Buff, but I can't remember where the rest comes from.

Failedlegend
01-06-2014, 09:36 AM
Ok I NEVER said this build is not taking spellcraft it is I was only explaining why it is despite my personal protest. I KNOW how much spellpower it can add I don't dispute that what I dispute is that it was a good change...regardless of what numbers you come up with its existence has limited build options for non-Int based classes by forcing Int is as a relevant skill. Skills should not affect spellpower. Also there was way more useful and inventive ideas for heal and repair.

S_Takumi
01-06-2014, 10:00 AM
Don't think this build is for ee so I think a few changes make it better: Change race to human/drow and enchantment feats to necro.

thesnoman
01-06-2014, 03:14 PM
regardless of what numbers you come up with its existence has limited build options for non-Int based classes by forcing Int is as a relevant skill.

You fail to see the forest through the trees.

Let me explain it in small words.

On Average you lose ten spellcraft if you dump Intelligence vs a full on Intelligence build.

This is not detrimental to any build.

(the numbers)

8 Base vs 18 Base (or 10 vs 20 if you are Drow/Morninglord) - 5
6 Int from leveling vs 0 Int from leveling - 3
4 Int from enhancements vs 0 Int from enhancements - 2 (Theoretically you could get a max of +8 from enhancements, but I'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible)
Perhaps if you're human you'll get another 1 Int from enhancements, 2 if you're Drow or Elf so we'll make it 10.5 (which, IIRC, rounds down to 10 in DDO world) or 11.

Again - this is not detrimental to any build.

If you lost somewhere in the area of 100 Spellpower (as you suggest by dumping Spellcraft) - THIS is detrimental to a caster's DPS.

If you look at reality, no sorcerer takes 10 Int anyway - most take 12-14, just for the additional skill points - which also happen to be tied to Intelligence.

Wizza
01-06-2014, 05:05 PM
Ok I NEVER said this build is not taking spellcraft it is I was only explaining why it is despite my personal protest. I KNOW how much spellpower it can add I don't dispute that what I dispute is that it was a good change...regardless of what numbers you come up with its existence has limited build options for non-Int based classes by forcing Int is as a relevant skill. Skills should not affect spellpower. Also there was way more useful and inventive ideas for heal and repair.

Don't get me wrong: I think having Spellcraft tied to Int mod is wrong (look at my threads on Lamannia on the subject).

But not getting it for such a reason is ten thousand times worse.

Failedlegend
01-06-2014, 11:32 PM
Don't get me wrong: I think having Spellcraft tied to Int mod is wrong (look at my threads on Lamannia on the subject).

But not getting it for such a reason is ten thousand times worse.

It's the only way I can think of to get them to notice as they ignored peoples feedback so if I can get enough people to not use it maybe they will wonder why...I dunno

@Snoman: U can't dump intelligence because u need more skill points to take spellcraft, heal,repair etc. thats the issue....they finally got around to making it so toughness isn't 100% required and is instead an OPTION only to turn around and add 1-3 more 100% required skills.

thesnoman
01-07-2014, 06:53 AM
@Snoman: U can't dump intelligence because u need more skill points to take spellcraft, heal,repair etc. thats the issue....they finally got around to making it so toughness isn't 100% required and is instead an OPTION only to turn around and add 1-3 more 100% required skills.

So now you've changed your argument to "U can't dump intelligence because u need more skill points to take spellcraft ... "

I call BS - Before Spellcraft came along I built my Sorcs with 12-14 Intelligence for Skill Points. I still build my Sorcs with 12-14 Intelligence, I just re-allocate where my skill points go.

Balance is not 100% necessary for Sorcerers - so I dumped it to pick up Spellcraft
Diplomacy is not 100% necessary for Sorcerers - so I dumped it to take Repair (I play WF)
Haggle is not 100% required for Sorcerers - so I dumped it for Perform (Sonic Damage)

So really, what I had before was more than enough Skill Points with 14 Int - Now I have to pick and choose where they go, but have adequate skill points for most Sorcs. (FWIW, fleshie Sorcs don't have to take Repair, so they get to have excess Skill points or can drop their Int down a bit)

What I really wish the Devs would do (since they tied Repair to the Repair Skill and Sonic Damage to the Perform skill) is to make Repair and Perform Class Skills for Arcane Casters.

Heal is already a Class Skill for Clerics and FvS, so no problem there. (It should be a Class Skill for Wizards since Necro is now tied to Heal - which I don't understand)

To sum it all up:

Most Sorcs didn't dump Int before the Spellcraft change, so your argument is invalid.

The fact that you don't have extra skill points to play with non-necessary skills (which are nice to have, but don't break a build) is not game breaking

Since every player except you has decided to live with the changes and isn't boycotting Spellcraft, Repair, Heal, and Perform, I'd say that your campaign to get this change revoked or re-evaluated has failed - embrace the change!

Or don't - I don't care - play the game as you see fit. :-)

cru121
01-07-2014, 07:04 AM
A "Mistress of Storms" without the Dragonmark of Storms, particularly if you're already a half-elf? Blasphemy.

Failedlegend
01-07-2014, 03:38 PM
A "Mistress of Storms" without the Dragonmark of Storms, particularly if you're already a half-elf? Blasphemy.

OMG thanks u some who actually wants to assist with the build.

That said OMG I am so dumb thats the whole reason I went H-ELf...guess I'll drop SF:Enchant and GSF:Enchant for the Dragonmark and I dunno Extend...than ESF: Enchant for Greater Cha?

I'll be back with a refined build

Others please stop yapping about spellcraft...its irrelevant to this thread.

Sokól
01-08-2014, 07:12 AM
OMG thanks u some who actually wants to assist with the build.

That said OMG I am so dumb thats the whole reason I went H-ELf...guess I'll drop SF:Enchant and GSF:Enchant for the Dragonmark and I dunno Extend...than ESF: Enchant for Greater Cha?

I'll be back with a refined build

Others please stop yapping about spellcraft...its irrelevant to this thread.

My caster is a helf 18 sorc 2 monk air savant with pally dilly and dragonmark of storm.

I usually quest in shiradi with energy burst twisted but in eh and some raids it is just quicker to be in draconic.

I can post the build if you like but note the dragonmark sla call lightning storm can proc nerv venom or some other shiradi procs on yourself when you cast it because the spell is centered on the caster...

Failedlegend
01-08-2014, 10:16 AM
I can post the build if you like

I'd veri much appreciate it