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solchitlins
01-05-2014, 12:08 AM
ok so I played for a while when the game first came out and I'm looking to recreate the fun I had.

My first rogue I made left the most lasting impression on me and I was thinking I would make another guy like that one,
but I'm already lost.

My first rogue I had was a halfling I believe, I remember he was good with traps and ran around shooting with a cross bow.
Is this still a good build or am I going to be re rolling over and over until I figure it out?

How do I know where to put starting points? Can I move them later or is it permanent?

I seem to remember I had the original rogue and then later tried making a strong dwarf rogue but didn't like him as much or made another halfling rogue that was dual wielding etc...
But it was so ong ago and I could be thinking of another game lol

Games loading now btw...

Sorry for being such a newb

ranthrock
01-05-2014, 12:21 AM
1) Game is pretty different now in terms of what each class offers

2) My suggestions depend on what classes/races you have access to

2b) The game still heavily rewards multi-classing.

3) If you have access to the big shebang, consider multiclassing a level 6 rogue/level 14 artificer using heavy repeaters with a maxed intelligence. The build is superb and a lot of fun. Make your guy a warforged and you'll be self-healing too and be able to take care of traps, etc. The six levels of rogue make it so that you can use your intelligence bonus on repeaters, which is amazing. The artificer levels get you some really nice bonuses to your repeating xbow as well.

4) If you have access to essentially nothing, building a straight heavy repeater xbow rogue is great, too. Make sure you take rapid shot and rapid reload at some point as feats. You may also need to take exotic weapon: heaving repeating xbow. I forget.

5) If you want to play a more melee-ish rogue, consider splashing a few levels of ranger and/or fighter into the mix. There are a lot of popular builds out there.

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 12:26 AM
just logged on and looked around, to my surprise my old account was still there.

my one rogue "halfling" is level 7 with 28 action points
then there's the dwarf lv 1 fighter lv 3 rogue
and a level 4 fighter

I guess I should start a new guy if possible and re-learn the game a bit then tweak one of my original guys ??

aasra
01-05-2014, 03:03 AM
How do I know where to put starting points? Can I move them later or is it permanent?



The stat points are pretty much permanent - you can change them in reincarnation (there are a few different kinds of reincarnation you can have a look at ddowiki for more info), but basically this will require a special item that can be bought in the store or acquired ingame. On your old characters you should have a couple or so of free reincarnations since Turbine hands them out occasionally when they make big changes (look for a heart of wood).

Anyway if you are going to make a crossbow rogue you will want INT (primary stat), enough DEX to eventually make it to 19 DEX (for improved precise shot) and enough CON to not die too easily. However I would suggest that you look around in this section of the forum for ranged rogue builds, you can get a lot of information about the feats that people choose and what stats they need etc. Having a good plan from the beginning prevents most build troubles later on.

Tscheuss
01-05-2014, 04:21 AM
And talk to Katz. ;)

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 04:12 PM
However I would suggest that you look around in this section of the forum for ranged rogue builds, you can get a lot of information about the feats that people choose and what stats they need etc. Having a good plan from the beginning prevents most build troubles later on.

thanks, can someone point me in the right direction, I can't seem to find any using the search function

katz
01-05-2014, 04:25 PM
And talk to Katz. ;)


http://i.imgur.com/vyHJ98d.jpg

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 04:28 PM
haha

yeah, looking to get back in with a ranged rogue build or convert my lv 7 rogue from 2006 over, but honestly I have forgotten how to play so I might as well reroll

katz
01-05-2014, 04:39 PM
well... you can easily reroll. that is always an option. you also should have a free lesser heart in your inventory if you wanted to rework your existing character and keep playing from level 7. your choice...but level 7 isn't all that high and should be easy to reach again....

please hold for potential build advice.... XD

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 04:42 PM
thanks, and maybe ranged rogue isn't all that great, I just remember thinking it would be cool, so if it really stinks let me know not to waste my time lol

my other guy is a dwarf with 1 level in fighting and 2 or 3 levels in rogue, I can't remember why I rerolled into that guy in the first place it was a long time ago, I guess I wanted more damage?

katz
01-05-2014, 05:08 PM
if you like ranged... it can definitely be done. ranged is typically looked down on.. but is still powerful and has its uses.

downside is, it typically doesn't really start coming into it's own till later in a character's life.

ok. assuming 28 point build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 190
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 21
Will: 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 10 10
Dexterity 17 23
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 16 25
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Expert Builder (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Hip Flask (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Leg Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)




no "melee" feats, so some bit of melee is provided via quarterstaves thru the acrobat tree and decent dex (even on ranged builds i believe in having some way to melee). most DPS will be done via ranged from mechanic tree. high int gives you LOADS of skill points, effects your trapping skills directly, AND (thru targeting sights) effects the amount of damage you do. dragonmark gives you some self heals right about the time pots really lose effectiveness, but before you really have enough UMD to self heal via scroll. all level-ups into int. only tome required as is - +2 dex tome to meet the requirement for improved precise shot. you get your choice of tome at 1750 favor... if you don't think you'll make the favor by then, or have a +2 dex tome otherwise by then, can sub 2 levelup points from int into dex instead.

could potentially even start into epic levels if you can get +4 to the dex somehow.. either via levelups or tome... to get 21 dex for combat archery.

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 05:32 PM
interesting, I'll have to think about this but I appreciate the build.

I'm not sure how committed I am to being all about ranged to the point where I'm in trouble at closed quarters, if that makes sense


here's my lv 7 rogue I don't understand what feats he has there's like a thousand things listed

28 action points
halfling chaotic neutral male
str 14+2
dex 16+3
con 10
int 16+3
wis 14+2
cha 9-1
hp 77
ac 25+2

in inventory there is a +20 lesser heart of wood and a lesser heart of wood

katz
01-05-2014, 06:41 PM
interesting, I'll have to think about this but I appreciate the build.

I'm not sure how committed I am to being all about ranged to the point where I'm in trouble at closed quarters, if that makes sense

that's why the quarterstaff. points into acrobat lets you use your dex, which should be quite high, for your to-hit AND damage...i even put enough points to give you immunity to slippery surfaces and most knockdowns.

i really don't like putting all my eggs into one basket, so to speak. with smart play, this build would be predominately ranged, but not necessarily a slouch in melee, either. it just won't go the stereotypical dual daggers stab you in the back playstyle.

solchitlins
01-05-2014, 07:08 PM
cool thanks, I also updated my previous post with my lv 7 dudes stats, does he looks seriously flawed?

aasra
01-06-2014, 01:39 AM
I looked around for some ranged builds to inspire you. Most of the builds that I've found choose to combine ranged with the rather powerful instant kill ability assassinate from the assassin enhancement tree (a good idea given that the mechanic enhancement tree is fairly weak). It is however perfectly viable to create a purely ranged character. Anyway, here are some threads that might be interesting to you:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431411-Adventures-in-Theorycrafting-The-Mechassin
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431770-an-unusual-pure-rogue
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/421986-My-Post-U19-Pure-Human-Rogue-Mechassin
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432243-Build-request

When you look at the builds suggested in these threads you shouldn't worry too much about differences in race or amount of stat points, it shouldn't be *that* significant. By the way I don't agree that ranged is looked down on, and I certainly don't think that repeaters are weak in the start - as I see things repeaters are about the best weapon there is in early game. I wouldn't worry too much about melee combat, you can get DEX to damage with quarterstaff or daggers very cheaply so switching to melee could be an option, or you can just keep shooting your crossbow and go stand next to a melee party member if you're getting attacked :)

katz
01-06-2014, 09:29 AM
I looked around for some ranged builds to inspire you. Most of the builds that I've found choose to combine ranged with the rather powerful instant kill ability assassinate from the assassin enhancement tree (a good idea given that the mechanic enhancement tree is fairly weak). It is however perfectly viable to create a purely ranged character. Anyway, here are some threads that might be interesting to you:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431411-Adventures-in-Theorycrafting-The-Mechassin
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431770-an-unusual-pure-rogue
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/421986-My-Post-U19-Pure-Human-Rogue-Mechassin
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/432243-Build-request

When you look at the builds suggested in these threads you shouldn't worry too much about differences in race or amount of stat points, it shouldn't be *that* significant. By the way I don't agree that ranged is looked down on, and I certainly don't think that repeaters are weak in the start - as I see things repeaters are about the best weapon there is in early game. I wouldn't worry too much about melee combat, you can get DEX to damage with quarterstaff or daggers very cheaply so switching to melee could be an option, or you can just keep shooting your crossbow and go stand next to a melee party member if you're getting attacked :)

a few points: i never said ranged was "bad"... i have several ranged-centric characters myself, and i enjoy them greatly... but 1. some people do still look at a ranged character... in heroic content at least, as sub-par DPS...(furyshoting things is in a whole 'nother category as far as this topic is concerned.) 2. repeaters are awesome, yes. i agree with you there, BUT 3. in my opinion, NO ranged build truly comes into it's own until it has improved precise shot. yes...IPS is just that good. and i already mentioned dex to hit and damage with quarterstaves :-P

Bunker
01-06-2014, 09:56 AM
ok so I played for a while when the game first came out and I'm looking to recreate the fun I had.

My first rogue I made left the most lasting impression on me and I was thinking I would make another guy like that one,
but I'm already lost.

My first rogue I had was a halfling I believe, I remember he was good with traps and ran around shooting with a cross bow.
Is this still a good build or am I going to be re rolling over and over until I figure it out?

How do I know where to put starting points? Can I move them later or is it permanent?

I seem to remember I had the original rogue and then later tried making a strong dwarf rogue but didn't like him as much or made another halfling rogue that was dual wielding etc...
But it was so ong ago and I could be thinking of another game lol

Games loading now btw...

Sorry for being such a newb

As a good base, I suggest starting with 3 things.

Human
Rogue
Repeaters

As far as stats go, a solid start is to have Dex and Int strating @ 16 and the rest however you want.

I do agree with some of the above statements, such as they don't really come into their own till later levels. However, Repeater Rogues have a lot to do with HOW you play them, and less to do with how you build them imo. There will be important gear that will help though out your repeater rogue experience, such as a decent weapon, bluff or diplo item to help evade your enemy, deception items in later levels.

Also keep in mind that you are a rogue, so always have a few tricks in your bag. Something that others in your party might forget.

Start with your pure rogue, get comfortable, and if you wish to venture into the wonderful world of tweaking your repeater rogue, there are many great multiclass variants out there.

/cheers -Bunk

solchitlins
01-06-2014, 12:50 PM
As a good base, I suggest starting with 3 things.

Human
Rogue
Repeaters


What is the advantage of Human?
by repeaters you mean rapid fire right?

Can I still use the Katz build he made for me?
I started the Katz build above and played around a bit, did some crypt quest in harbor town etc...

Initial thoughts were running backwards from mobs shooting with a crossbow kind of sucks.
I'm sure this gets better and I was doing it wrong.

Then I read this on some wiki:
.................................................. .................................................. ............................
"Ranged Rogue

There is little reason to go ranged unless you are sporting a repeating crossbow and have the Rogue Mechanic Prestige Enhancement line trained up. Rangers are made for long bows, you are not.

In a fight, if you are pinging away with a mechanical crossbow, hold your fire until a tougher comrade has drawn the attention of a monster. Once the monster has been engaged by your teammate, you can begin firing. You never want to be the first person to attack a target. This negates your sneak attack damage immediately, and the monster will begin chasing you. You will inevitably run away because you are squishy and your party will yell at you to stop moving so they can kill the kobold that is causing all the ruckuss.

Be sure to stay within 30 feet of your target in order to keep your sneak attack bonus. If you stop seeing the large sneak attack damage bonus, get closer. Sneak attack is going to be the bulk of your damage. There is little to no reason to fire at anything if you aren't getting that sneak attack bonus.

Because you will likely do a great deal of damage in a short amount of time, you might draw monster aggro. This is why you should wait until your friend has had a chance to land a couple swings before you fire. If you do manage to take aggro away from the meatier characters in the group, you should stand still, block, and possibly use Diplomacy to convince the monster attacking you that you are harmless and that he should return to attacking your friend. "
.................................................. .................................................. .....
So it got me wondering does the build I was following address all these points? Seems like it does.

I also started thinking about my lv 3 rogue lv 1 fighter dwarf guy I had made before quitting, it seems to me a stout tough guy axe rogue might be neat too, any opinion on what one would be considered a better build, or if changes in game would make taking one level of fighter a bad idea.

Right now I'm just testing the waters and getting a feel for what type of game play I want to have, it was so long ago lol :-)

the help is appreciated guys :-)

also I see that there is that new class that is sort of the guy I had in mind originally, but I don't want to pay for a subscription at this time would rather stay in the free mode

katz
01-06-2014, 01:42 PM
by repeaters they meant repeating light and heavy crossbows. the full mechanic tree grants proficiency in both of them...so you don't have to take the feats, as they count as exotic weapons. you don't want to use a regular crossbow. those are pretty useless.

a good repeater, especially once you start adding your int modifier to the damage via targeting sights, can kill most trash mobs in lower level quests on normal and even hard in a single volley... 2 at most. just be sure to stock up on LOTS of bolts, you WILL really go thru them at an astonishing rate

and yes. you want rapid reload also

solchitlins
01-08-2014, 10:52 AM
question, so since my characters are from 2006 or whatever and have a lesser heart of wood and a +20 lesser heart of wood etc...

can I respec my lv 4 human fighter into a lv 4 rogue for free and change all his starting points, skill points and feats etc...?
and do I even need to use those things because I read something about just talking to a npc and everyone should have a free one?

Thud
01-09-2014, 04:19 PM
question, so since my characters are from 2006 or whatever and have a lesser heart of wood and a +20 lesser heart of wood etc...

can I respec my lv 4 human fighter into a lv 4 rogue for free and change all his starting points, skill points and feats etc...?
and do I even need to use those things because I read something about just talking to a npc and everyone should have a free one?

I don't believe the free lr offers class changes, but the +20 does. As a side note, I really doubt they give out anymore +20 hearts...

For build advice, just note that con is NOT a dump stat, unless you're dumping all you can spare into it. I also agree with the human, pure rogue, repeater for starting out. They're a lot fun and get an extra feat at first level. With Improved precise shot, target the nasties in the back of the group and watch them be torn to pieces, hopefully before they reach you :rolleyes:

solchitlins
01-09-2014, 07:02 PM
Are str based builds still considered good? Like for a dwarf, or are others better?

voodoogroves
01-10-2014, 06:47 AM
I would never spend a +20 heart on a level 4 character - those things are more valuable than you think - hold it for a future date.

bsquishwizzy
01-10-2014, 04:26 PM
My first rogue I had was a halfling I believe, I remember he was good with traps and ran around shooting with a cross bow.
Is this still a good build or am I going to be re rolling over and over until I figure it out?

Yes and no.

Back before the enhancement pass you had to take an exotic feat to be proficient with repeating crossbows. Now, you get them as part of the Mechanic PrE. Between going to tier 5 on the Mechanic tree, and splitting up the remaining points between Assassin, Acrobat, and Halfling Racial tree you can get a decent toon even as a 28-point build. You really do not need to splash or multi-class, and as long as you do not aspire to run in EE content in this current life, you can be very effective.

Repeaters are devastating in most content. Mechanics get to use their INT to attack and damage. So basically you need a toon that goes high INT, high DEX, some CHR, and some CON. Take Weapons Finesse as a feat to use that DEX for melee. With a high INT you have lots of skill points to distribute , so you can invest in Open Lock, Disable Device, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Use Magic Device, Bluff, and then distribute points into maybe Hide, Balance, Diplomacy, or others you find helpful (Jump maybe).

Look at taking feats in Dodge, TWF, ITWF, Weapons Finesse, and a few others.

If you solo, stealth and Bluff are HUGE aids in questing. UMD allows you to self-heal with wands and scrolls as well as allowing you to buff your character. You can disable traps, open locks, find hidden doors, and so on. You are like a Swiss Army Knife. Stealth is doubly important now as the mob AI for aggro has changed. Before, once a mob aggroed on you, that never went away. Now, they reset. Plus, there is a new mechanic for how mobs detect hidden or stealthed characters, It makes running around invisible (easily cast if you have a decent UMD) very viable, and actually rather fun.

The only major concern you should have is having a decent amount of HP. That is probably one of the biggest detriments to having a Halfling and/or rogue. One of your biggest issues will be ammo, as repeaters go though A LOT of bolts, and ammo management in DDO basically sucks. So, that’s something you need to sort out yourself. These, however, are pretty much your only downsides.

Your biggest problems will be mainly Undead and maybe Constructs, as sneak attack damage does not apply. However, Smiting and Disrupting weapons makes up for this shortfall.



How do I know where to put starting points? Can I move them later or is it permanent?

The DDO Wiki has a good layout on how to allocate points for a 28-point rogue. I’d recommend 32 points if you can (it never sucks to have more CON), but 28-point builds are VERY viable with rogues.

Really what you’ll need is any and all equipment that boosts:
1) Trapping skills (Esacaping, Disabling, Search / Spot),
2) Move Silent / Hide skills,
3) INT,
4) DEX,
5) WIS (for spotting traps),
6) CHR (for UMD and Bluff),
7) UMD (you can craft a +3 Persuasion item in Cannith Crafting),
8) Sneak Attack damage.
9) AC / PRR (usually leather armor with a blue slot for a PRR augment),
10) Deathblock item,
11) Something that gives you Blur or Ghostly attributes.
12) A Deception item (Golden Guile for example – provides deception and concealment).
13) Dodge / Doublestrike / Doubleshot items if you can get them.




I seem to remember I had the original rogue and then later tried making a strong dwarf rogue but didn't like him as much or made another halfling rogue that was dual wielding etc...

DEX-based finesse damage is just about on-par with STR-based. Repeaters for a mechanic are going to be INT-based. Dual-wielding will become your backup combat alternative.

solchitlins
01-10-2014, 06:18 PM
thanks,

so far I have been playing along with the build Katz gave me, and then I log on my dwarf lv2 rog/1 fighter guy and mess around between the 2 of them.

I only have a few slots as a free player so I'm thinking maybe I should play around with making a human repeater rogue or a dwarf axe rogue or something and see which one I like best, if later on I decide I should have been a halfling I have the + 20 lesser heart of wood up my lv7 halfling guys sleeve to respec with.

I have never liked the thought of multiclassing but like said, I shouldn't waste that respect on a lv 3 guy.

If I did make a human repeating rogue what would be the difference between that build and the one katz gave me? should I look at a certain build?

thanks guys

Thud
01-11-2014, 02:38 AM
I recommend checking out a couple builds then doing what you want. There is good and bad advice in abundance, so try something and see if you like it. I squeeze toughness in on all my toons and never start below a 14 con.

A character planner (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/427100-Character-Planner-Series-4-xx?) is useful to help you decide what to take at which level.

Thud
01-11-2014, 02:44 AM
so far I have been playing along with the build Katz gave me, and then I log on my dwarf lv2 rog/1 fighter guy and mess around between the 2 of them.


18 rogue/ 2 fighter, two weapon fighter whirling dwarven axes? 2 levels of fighter would give you 2 feats.

2 levels of monk would give you 2 more, but that could wait. Like taking one level of wizard on a cleric for the extra feat :cool:

solchitlins
01-11-2014, 12:51 PM
Thanks but I want to go pure rogue.
I know the game is geared towards multiclassing but it ruins my personal RP mind set, if that makes any sense

DareDelvis
01-11-2014, 01:48 PM
Pure rogues can be very effective. The assassinate dc is based in part on rogue level.

In my experience, the biggest weaknesses with pure rogue relate to survivability, especially first lifers for whom gear and perks may be less than optimal.

Low will saves can hurt you as can the tendency towards lower hp. But rogues, through skills and feats can bring extra tools to the table to keep themselves and others in the group alive.

Most importantly, have fun!

solchitlins
01-12-2014, 07:55 PM
how do I know what order to take these in or doesn't it matter?

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Break Out The Leeches (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Expert Builder (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Hip Flask (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Leg Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Rapid Fire (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)

ReaperAlexEU
01-13-2014, 08:37 AM
how do I know what order to take these in or doesn't it matter?

Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
*snip*
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)

it doesn't matter in the slightest. what you will probably find is there are various goals you want to work towards for your journey. for a mechanic that is often getting the exotic repeater feats and the INT to damage, all of which can be had by lvl12. so you might find you focus your enhancements on that goal for lvl12 then pick a new goal moving forwards. resetting enhancements is also relatively cheap if you don't do it frequently. so this makes it easier to build up any old enhancements you fancy early in the game then reset the whole lot when you hit a landmark level like lvl12 to take exactly what you need to qualify for that ability you were looking forward to.

enhancements are very flexible like that which is why you'll seldom see a level guide posted with a build.

Todkaninchen
01-13-2014, 01:52 PM
interesting, I'll have to think about this but I appreciate the build.

I'm not sure how committed I am to being all about ranged to the point where I'm in trouble at closed quarters, if that makes sense




Another thing to notice in the mech enhancement tree and core (3) are your "grenades". Tanglefoot is an Area of Effect Attack you get at level 6, the others, you have to pay for, but are also Area of Effect, often with a stun or daze effect.

Those and your Uncanny Dodge clicky (50% dodge for a few seconds) are really useful if you get mobbed up close with a crossbow in hand.

Todkaninchen
01-13-2014, 02:11 PM
What is the advantage of Human?
by repeaters you mean rapid fire right?

Can I still use the Katz build he made for me?
I started the Katz build above and played around a bit, did some crypt quest in harbor town etc...

Initial thoughts were running backwards from mobs shooting with a crossbow kind of sucks.
I'm sure this gets better and I was doing it wrong.

Then I read this on some wiki:
.................................................. .................................................. ............................
"Ranged Rogue

There is little reason to go ranged unless you are sporting a repeating crossbow and have the Rogue Mechanic Prestige Enhancement line trained up. Rangers are made for long bows, you are not.

In a fight, if you are pinging away with a mechanical crossbow, hold your fire until a tougher comrade has drawn the attention of a monster. Once the monster has been engaged by your teammate, you can begin firing. You never want to be the first person to attack a target. This negates your sneak attack damage immediately, and the monster will begin chasing you. You will inevitably run away because you are squishy and your party will yell at you to stop moving so they can kill the kobold that is causing all the ruckuss.

Be sure to stay within 30 feet of your target in order to keep your sneak attack bonus. If you stop seeing the large sneak attack damage bonus, get closer. Sneak attack is going to be the bulk of your damage. There is little to no reason to fire at anything if you aren't getting that sneak attack bonus.

Because you will likely do a great deal of damage in a short amount of time, you might draw monster aggro. This is why you should wait until your friend has had a chance to land a couple swings before you fire. If you do manage to take aggro away from the meatier characters in the group, you should stand still, block, and possibly use Diplomacy to convince the monster attacking you that you are harmless and that he should return to attacking your friend. "
.................................................. .................................................. .....
So it got me wondering does the build I was following address all these points? Seems like it does.

I also started thinking about my lv 3 rogue lv 1 fighter dwarf guy I had made before quitting, it seems to me a stout tough guy axe rogue might be neat too, any opinion on what one would be considered a better build, or if changes in game would make taking one level of fighter a bad idea.

Right now I'm just testing the waters and getting a feel for what type of game play I want to have, it was so long ago lol :-)

the help is appreciated guys :-)

also I see that there is that new class that is sort of the guy I had in mind originally, but I don't want to pay for a subscription at this time would rather stay in the free mode

The advice on the wiki is how to get your sneak attack to apply with a repeater...

Which is sometimes useful, but most of the time, after the first burst, you have aggro anyway.

Deception/Improved deception items help, but you're often going to be doing enough damage--with a good level of INT and a decent bow--that you're going to be killing without applying sneak attack.

Another way to play ranged is to max out spot (which you should be doing anyway) and hit them from as far away as you can see them. Most of the time, you'll only aggro what you hit (who will run towards you) and enemy rogues/rangers (which will have enough spot to see you too). Kill them as they approach. (If they get within point blank range, bonus damage, if they get distracted in point blank range, bonus damage.)

Most things will be dead before they get to you. If they get too close, toss a tanglefoot when they're in range, and slow them down. (crippling bows, paralyzing bows, and the named bows with nightshade venom work as well).

Or, in other words, you're like a ranger with manyshot on all the time at max range, but do even more damage at close range if you can get someone to pull enough aggro off of you. *grin*

Kiting--running backwards shooting--is only what you do when there's a big bunch of mobs in close, it's just you, and your alchemical grenades are on cool down...

(one reason to max the Jump skill, by the way.)

Todkaninchen
01-13-2014, 02:50 PM
Thanks but I want to go pure rogue.
I know the game is geared towards multiclassing but it ruins my personal RP mind set, if that makes any sense

I'm addicted to rogue mechanics.

I currently have a level 5 rogue mechanic (rogue 4/arti 1) that was a rogue mechanic (rogue 18/arti 2) last life.
I have a level 17 rogue mechanic (currently rogue 14/arti 3), last life was pure rogue mechanic (rogue 20).
One of my current Artis was a rogue mechanic his last two lives (rogue 18/arti 2 and rogue 19/fighter 1).

And I had two others that got to the mid-teens before being deleted (one because he was seriously broken* and LR tokens hadn't come out yet, the other was on a 2nd account I gave my son.).

The pure mechanic did a lot more sneak attack damage with mostly the same gear as an arti split. The big differences were:

Logistics: 1 level of arti gives you the means to conjure bolts 1000 at a time as long as you have SP (and not much else to spend SP on). A pure rogue MUST use multiple quivers, ideally the large ones from House Denieth favor (or the similar capacity Quiver of Poison) and is seriously helped by the House Deneith "Sturdy bolts" (75% returning). Even then, expect a big chunk of your inventory weight to be bolts.

One tip is to "triple stack" your quivers. As long as they are different kinds of bolts, you can have up to 3000 bolts in a large quiver. I would typically run +1 Sturdy bolts (when I unlocked them), plain old bolts, and then either +3 sturdy bolts, special metal ones (silver, flametouched iron), or crafted bolts in the thirds slot on the quiver. That let me use the "more likely to be used slower" bolts first, then the cheap bolts, then go into the more expensive bolts, if I got that far.

Most of the time, however, I would use 2 or 3 quivers, and keep extra slots in my inventory filled with bolts. That way, when I saw the "Reloaded bolts" message pop up, the next break in battle, I'd double click the equipped quiver on the hotbar and hit "gather" to pull more bolts from inventory in. That way I would always have the quiver almost full, in case of really bad fights, and burn the "cheaper" bolts first...

Sneak attack damage at 20: You used to get a lot of extra sneak attack damage in the rogue capstone. With the current set up, a 1-level split won't lose Feat-granted sneak attack (you get it and a extra rogue feat at 19), unless you get the assassin capstone (+4 sneak attack dice). What you get in exchange--with 2 levels of arti--is rune arm use which--depending on the rune arm--can be up to 2d6 on force rune arms at level 19 or 2d8 on some of the elemental rune arms.

For Arti splash: You get both repeater type proficiencies (and shield proficiency) at whatever level you take your first arti level at. (I usually do it at 2), but you lose some overall skill points (because arti gets less skill points for class than rogue), and you have to wait an additional level to get targeting sights (INT to damage). (You also have to avoid taking Rapid Reload as it's auto-granted with Arti.) With the buffs to great crossbow in the new mech enhancements, waiting for repeaters isn't as painful either...

Oh, and you have to buy Arti.

For Fighter splash: You get shield proficiency and a bonus feat. When I did it, I took a repeater proficiency and changed it out later after I got repeater proficiency from rogue. I mainly used shield prof for "turtling" and not enough to really do it again...

Also, on the human vs. halfling issue...

You get an extra feat and a skill point on the human. For a rogue mech, unless you really want to max out tumble or perform or something, you probably don't need the skill point, so what do you lose to get a feat?

With halfling, you start out with a base +1 to hit (useful), +1 to AC (not really useful on a repeater rogue), -2 STR (mostly hurts your logistics), +2 DEX (that's skills and to-hit) and some perks for hide and move silently. You get a net +2 to hit with any dex weapon--which includes all bows--that stacks with everything else...

For the enhancements: Halflings get more DEX raises (humans can have +1), up to +3d6 sneak attack damage (and +3 to hit sneak attacks, +3 to dodge), more sneak skills and--if you spend a feat on it--the means to heal yourself a couple times per rest and--if you invest skills into heal--a way to get rid of negative levels...

For humans, you get up to Greater heroism (which is nice, but on a rogue, you can scroll that), a couple of short term boost clickies, and up to +4 on your core rogue skills (Skill Focus: Awareness and/or Nimble Fingers and/or Stealthy then Skill Mastery for another +1). You can get up to +2d6 sneak attack under fighting styles.

Generally speaking, halfling is better for sneak attack and to-hit (survivability if the dragonmark is selected), but human helps more for skills. Whether a feat is worth a gain of 1d6 sneak attack damage, up to +5 to hit on sneak attacks (+2 otherwise) is pretty much a personal decision.



**********

* - Seriously broken: 10 CON, no bluff, too many points in STR and WIS and not enough in DEX. I had tried to do a 2 ranger/X rogue ranged assassin in the old enhancement system. By trying to do too much--2WF, longbow damage, etc.---and starting with a ranger level (lost skill points) it was stretched pretty thin. I also missed some key skills early--like bluff and UMD--which really hurt later on. After totally, and miserably failing on traps during a run of Bounty Hunter... (awesome reflex saves, BTW) where I was the only survivor when the blade traps that I couldn't spot or find went off, I rebuilt enhancements to rogue mechanic and did okay for another bunch of levels while making two other potential replacements...

The first--deleted later by my son when he got the account--was also a ranger 2/rogue X but with 12 CON and a lot more into DEX and INT as well. I liked being able to use cure wands with no UMD and do passable 2WF as back up, but mostly was a repeater, ranged build. The second--my current 3rd lifer--was a totally min-maxed repeater mech with all the ranged feats I could pack in, 18 DEX/18 INT/12 or 14 CON build with 8 or so STR that included UMD, Bluff, etc. Much, much more survivable and more DPS, except on undead. *Grin* Been tinkering with that build on the others since (and using it as a base for my Artificers).

Eventually though, that first character became a complete chore to try and level because all I could do was mediocre DPS and usually get the traps. So I deleted him--a few weeks too early to get an LR token--and replaced him with a pure ranger that made it to level 9 before I got tired of it and then one of the other rogue mechanics I currently have (The second lifer at level 17).

solchitlins
01-14-2014, 11:27 AM
thanks guys:-)