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View Full Version : DC needed to land SF/SB/QP in EN/EH?



Rhysem
01-02-2014, 08:03 PM
For reasons that involve a 3 year old eating into play time, I am looking at an iconic life next. The folks I'm hoping to run with should be around 15 by the time I get myself there and farm some bank favor, but then comes that little troublesome question of what build to run. I'm inclined against a LR+1, so I'm not pure monk anyway. I have a Sireth waiting in the bank*, and a raider's box spare too, but they're just base weapons and likely to stay so (see also the 3 y.o.) since I generally don't get to raid.

I'm questioning what to do. I'd sort of like to play with the Sireth, but having trouble settling on a build. Most of the qstaff builds don't have 15 monk, so that means no QP, which is sad. If I did one with 15 monk, 3 rogue, 2 fighter, that could make a solid qstaff build, but it means no SF (I'm not going to weapon swap to SF every 6 seconds -- not my style). I could SB, but now I have dueling attribute needs, which is unfortunate in epic.

However, the friends I want to run with are also likely to be running mostly EN/EH, not EE. They aren't geared (neither am I) for EE.

Given that, could I make a monk 15/rogue 3/fighter 2 type split with SB and QP of sufficient DCs to have them work in EH? Put another way -- what sort of DC do I need to hit in EH to make it stick reliably (80%+)? Is it low enough I could try to bring in some sweeping strikes from thief-acro and have it stick against their balance checks? (maybe that's better over in the Rogue forum, but...)

TIA for your +2 insight buffs.


*: What? I didn't trust turbine's grant code so I took the first box on the only toon who got it as a Sireth, since its use is more broadly applicable than wraps, and reserved the second as the box itself.

Thalone
01-02-2014, 09:25 PM
Well, I'll answer this in a roundabout way. Your Stunning save will be Fortitude. I can't speak to any content in Shadowfell as I haven't played the expansion yet.

My Wizard has a Necro DC of 64 (Finger DC is Fortitude) and that is very reliable in "easy EE" content. It starts to hit less around the High Road quests and becomes unreliable in EE Gianthold.

My tactics Fighter has an Improved Trip DC of 73 when surged, and I find this OK in EE GH, but not to your 80% level. Stunning Blow DC is 66, and with an opening Improved Sunder (-3 Fort save, sometimes hits twice with TWF/doublestrike), I find it OK again in EE GH, but not to your 80% level.

EH will be significantly below that.

I ran my caster Cleric through some EH GH quests today, and after an Enervation (let's say two neg levels, so -4 to saves), a 43 Necro was good enough to get caster types.

So for EH content, you'd probably want a Stun DC of about 47 to be effective against low-fort targets, and maybe a little higher against melees.

Note that defending against a trips is actually a STR/DEX check with a balance check after falling down. If you have someone on your team casting Waves of Exhaustion, it helps trips to stick.

Pala-forged
01-03-2014, 12:07 AM
50 or so should be plenty. To be honest though, 60 isn't hard to get.

Rhysem
01-03-2014, 07:28 AM
50 or so should be plenty. To be honest though, 60 isn't hard to get.

50-60 for which? For QP that's easy for sure, 14 base (IS) + 10 shattering + 5 spare hand + 15 monk/2 is 37 of it, even before adding in wisdom, and tactics enhancements. For SB those monk levels don't mean anything and there's no improved SB, so its starting at 25 + str and tactics enhancements. Getting that to 50 is quite a lot of tactics and strength, much less to 60.

Rhysem
01-03-2014, 08:31 AM
While I'm on EH questions; what soft of AC is required to be relevant in EH?

Pala-forged
01-03-2014, 06:18 PM
50-60 for which? For QP that's easy for sure, 14 base (IS) + 10 shattering + 5 spare hand + 15 monk/2 is 37 of it, even before adding in wisdom, and tactics enhancements. For SB those monk levels don't mean anything and there's no improved SB, so its starting at 25 + str and tactics enhancements. Getting that to 50 is quite a lot of tactics and strength, much less to 60.

Standard tactics bonus (for me): 10+6+5+3+3. (+10 item, Deadnought tactics, +5 mastery, +3 fighter PL's, +3 from /2 fighter.)
Or 37 before str mod. My monks tend to have ~40 str when buffed, so that's +15 for 52. Not overly hard.

Having said that, stunning blow sucks. You're a monk. Use stunning fist. Stunning blow is worse in every way for a monk.

And for anything below EE, one stun is more than enough. For EE, another would be nice, but stunning blow won't help enough.

As for AC for eHard, I have no clue. I don't normally bother with AC. eHard is easy enough without it, so.. 80 should help, I guess.
Not sure why you'd need it though.

Rhysem
01-03-2014, 10:35 PM
As for AC for eHard, I have no clue. I don't normally bother with AC. eHard is easy enough without it, so.. 80 should help, I guess.
Not sure why you'd need it though.

Because I'm not dripping with past lives and good epic gear? And/or because last time I was in epic, there wasn't any of this normal/hard/elite, and mobs in there were to be respected.

If I'm doing a qstaff build to run sireth, fist is out as I mentioned in the OP. I just won't switch to wraps every 6 sec to use it. If I don't use it I may as well not have it.

Pala-forged
01-04-2014, 05:51 PM
Because I'm not dripping with past lives and good epic gear? And/or because last time I was in epic, there wasn't any of this normal/hard/elite, and mobs in there were to be respected.

If I'm doing a qstaff build to run sireth, fist is out as I mentioned in the OP. I just won't switch to wraps every 6 sec to use it. If I don't use it I may as well not have it.

My first life pure monk was blitzing eHard... eHard is a tiny bit harder than eNormal.
And eHard is typically easier than heroic elite. EE is where the fun begins.

Rhysem
01-06-2014, 04:22 PM
My first life pure monk was blitzing eHard... eHard is a tiny bit harder than eNormal.
And eHard is typically easier than heroic elite. EE is where the fun begins.

Having been in some EH sentinels today that feels about accurate. However, parts of it were a stupid snorefest. Here's 50 zombines, go spend 10 minutes beating them down. Zzzzzz *snort*snort* zzzzz. No danger whatsoever, other than of falling asleep.

Maybe elsewhere is better, but EH was "let's make big sacks of HP, that's challenging right!" which isn't doing it for me. May go back to just doing TRs and pretend epic doesn't exist.

Pala-forged
01-06-2014, 11:02 PM
Having been in some EH sentinels today that feels about accurate. However, parts of it were a stupid snorefest. Here's 50 zombines, go spend 10 minutes beating them down. Zzzzzz *snort*snort* zzzzz. No danger whatsoever, other than of falling asleep.

Maybe elsewhere is better, but EH was "let's make big sacks of HP, that's challenging right!" which isn't doing it for me. May go back to just doing TRs and pretend epic doesn't exist.

No, that's EE. Stupid damage, stupid hp, that's about it. And high saves.
And no, eHard doesn't get better. Maybe the new ones, but I haven't tried them on eHard.