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Sebastrd
12-30-2013, 04:57 PM
So, after a couple epic TRs and a disastrous re-spec into AA, Astreya is back to being an evoker. I didn't realize just how capable she was until now. Last night I started running an EE LoD (not terribly difficult as far as EEs go, but still...) solo, and got about halfway through before some other folks started joining. Not only am I confident I could have finished it solo without much trouble, but I was absolutely destroying the quest up to that point. I'm not looking at soloing EE WGU anytime soon, but she's also only level 22 and EE WGU is ridiculous. The easier EEs like Unquiet Graves, Impossible Demands, LoD, etc. are no problem. Astreya has a bunch of past lives under her belt, but only one each of wiz, sorc, and barb are meaningful. The extra build points amount to a 14 Dex instead of 10, so a whopping 2 reflex and AC. The build is somewhat similar to some of the Cha-dumped, max-Con builds you may have seen, but doesn't give up nearly as much for so little gain.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)


Astreya the Unturning
Level 28 Neutral Good Half-Elf Female
(20 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 525
Spell Points: 2543
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 16
Will: 23


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 12
Dexterity 14 18
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 12 16
Wisdom 16 32
Charisma 14 18


Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 18

Level 1 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Spellcraft (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Silver Flame
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Nightshield




Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist




Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Silver Flame
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light




Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Spell (2): Resist Energy




Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability
Spell (2): Find Traps




Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Silver Flame Exorcism
Spell (3): Aid, Mass




Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (2): Spawn Screen
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil




Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement




Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (4): Panacea




Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold
Spell (5): Divine Punishment




Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (4): Recitation
Spell (5): Stalwart Pact




Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Beloved of the Silver Flame
Spell (6): Blade Barrier




Level 13 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (5): True Seeing
Spell (6): Cometfall




Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (7): Destruction




Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (5): Flame Strike
Spell (6): Undeath to Death
Spell (7): Protection from Elements, Mass




Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (8): Death Ward, Mass




Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Leap Of Faith
Spell (7): Resurrection
Spell (8): Symbol of Death




Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Spell (9): Heal, Mass




Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (8): Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Spell (9): Energy Drain




Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Spellcraft (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Silver
Spell (9): Implosion




Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Epic: Epic Skills




Level 22 (Epic)




Level 23 (Epic)




Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Wisdom




Level 25 (Epic)




Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Light




Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin




Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Hellball
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Half-Elven Versatile Nature (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanum (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanum (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Arcanum (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Dilettante: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Monk) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Summon Archon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Vengeful Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Animus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Animus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Animus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 3)






The final four EP are spent on Angelic Resistance and Light of the Flame, which seem to be broken in the Character Builder. I normally run in Shiradi with full Nerve Venom and Double Rainbow with Energy Burst, Cocoon, and Avenging Light twisted. For certain quests/tasks I'll run in Unyielding Sentinel and twist in Energy Sheath (EE Blue Dragon, for example). HP tends to be between 700-800 in Shiradi and tops 1000 in US. Have fun!

Silverleafeon
12-30-2013, 05:15 PM
I'll have to try fvs shirdai sometime, thanks.

danotmano1998
01-10-2014, 11:53 AM
I have a similar build I just threw together, thanks for posting yours.

For comparison, here is what I came up with:

Disclaimer: In order to build a good divine caster, I would recommend high DC's and Spell Penetration.
Since I have a current 3 pl wizard and 1 fvs, I have a natural 7 bonus to spell pen. This is HUGE. I wouldn't recommend this build as a first lifer, there just aren't enough feats to go around, IMO.

Disclaimer 2: I only built this until level 20, as I intend to TR and get the past life asap



Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Favored Soul)
Hit Points: 295
Spell Points: 1948

BAB: 15/15/20/25/25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 13
Will: 22

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 10
Dexterity 10 12
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 18 30
Charisma 12 14

Level ups all into Wisdom

Tomes Used:
+2 To All

Feats:
Empower Healing
Empower
Maximize
Quicken
Heighten
Past Life: Arcane Initiate *Past life. If you don't have it, grab mental toughness here*
Evocation Focus
Greater Evocation Focus

FVS Feats:
1: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
5: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
10: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
15: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold
20: (Deity) Favored Soul Damage Reduction: Silver



Skills:
-max-
Concentration, Heal, Spellcraft, UMD
Sprinkle some into jump


Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Spell Power Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Wisdom (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Don't Count Me Out (Rank 1)

Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Summon Archon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Vengeful Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Animus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Empower (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Intense Faith (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Evocation Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Zealous Faith (Rank 3)

Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 2) *filler*
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)


Concept:
Maximum DC caster, evocation focused. Nothing too fancy here.

Only major issue I see with this build is there will never be enough spell points.. No SLA's means very costly casting and being reduced to using harsh language on monsters if you run out of sp...

Matuse
01-11-2014, 01:01 AM
If all you are doing is going to level 20 and immediately TRing, then the evocation focus feats (and Heighten) are pointless. Run through dungeons at top speed farting out blade barriers, and collect your XP. It's exactly that easy.

AtomicMew
01-11-2014, 04:51 AM
You shouldn't list low level easy epics as a benchmark for how good a build is. Solo EE highroads, stormhorns etc is about the right benchmark to consider a build as "good". It's about the right challenge for people who'd be considered "gamers" and even still, those quests aren't even in the same league of difficulty as even some current console games.

As for your build, 20 evoker FvS just doesn't cut it. You simply don't have enough DPS to take down EE bosses without resorting to pots (do some math). You really want multiproccing spells to take advantage of shiradi, which would mean splashing some arcane levels as the easiest route.

Sebastrd
01-11-2014, 09:14 AM
You shouldn't list low level easy epics as a benchmark for how good a build is. Solo EE highroads, stormhorns etc is about the right benchmark to consider a build as "good". It's about the right challenge for people who'd be considered "gamers" and even still, those quests aren't even in the same league of difficulty as even some current console games.

As for your build, 20 evoker FvS just doesn't cut it. You simply don't have enough DPS to take down EE bosses without resorting to pots (do some math). You really want multiproccing spells to take advantage of shiradi, which would mean splashing some arcane levels as the easiest route.



Considering the number of players who struggle with those low level easy epic elites even in full groups, I consider the ability to solo them an accomplishment.
Your definition of a "good" build obviously differs greatly from mine.
My build is more than adequate. It can and has taken down EE bosses without pots. I've done better than simply figuring the math: I proved it through actually playing the game. It's a novel concept, I know, but you'll get it eventually. Keep trying.
Obviously, arcanes are better able to take advantage of Shiradi procs. Between Avenging Light, Searing Light SLA, Lantern Archon, and the Magic Missile SLA, this build does well enough and does it cheaply.

AtomicMew
01-12-2014, 02:40 AM
My build is more than adequate. It can and has taken down EE bosses without pots. I've done better than simply figuring the math: I proved it through actually playing the game. It's a novel concept, I know, but you'll get it eventually. Keep trying.


Check my sig before you make such a silly comment. I've soloed pretty much every 6 man EE in the entire game at least once. I know a dozen or so people who can as well, and none of it is extremely challenging, not even EE what goes up after a few tries. If you don't believe me, try out some well known challenging mainstream games and compare the difficulty to DDO. DDO overall is a very easy game relatively speaking.

On top of that, it's well known that Lord of Dust is one of the easiest EEs in the game. I know literally no one who has struggled in that quest in a full group, and I've pugged it dozens of time. Maybe your server is different.

Lastly, I gave you constructive criticism on how to improve the build. It always amazes me how personal people take constructive criticism on their builds. Try to read with a more open mind.

Sebastrd
01-12-2014, 09:22 AM
Check my sig before you make such a silly comment. I've soloed pretty much every 6 man EE in the entire game at least once. I know a dozen or so people who can as well, and none of it is extremely challenging, not even EE what goes up after a few tries. If you don't believe me, try out some well known challenging mainstream games and compare the difficulty to DDO. DDO overall is a very easy game relatively speaking.

On top of that, it's well known that Lord of Dust is one of the easiest EEs in the game. I know literally no one who has struggled in that quest in a full group, and I've pugged it dozens of time. Maybe your server is different.

Lastly, I gave you constructive criticism on how to improve the build. It always amazes me how personal people take constructive criticism on their builds. Try to read with a more open mind.

Oh, please. There was nothing constructive about your post. If you don't feel the easier epic elites are a good enough benchmark for you, fine. But I know when the Jugg build first hit the forums the solo EE vids of that build were just level 30 ES challenges and a skin-of-the-teeth DA. I know from experience the build has enough firepower to take down EE bosses solo, and I do enough DPS to pull boss aggro in full groups that include arcane casters.

If you misinterpreted my OP as claiming the build was capable of soloing all EEs, I guess I didn't express myself clearly enough. But it's plenty good enough for the easier EEs and contributes plenty to groups in the hardest ones.

Teh_Troll
01-15-2014, 08:23 AM
Atomic has got a point here though. EE Lod is really easy, if we are talking soloing, unless you are in Shiradi you might not even make it to 1st shrine in Cry ( and that's with top 65+ DCs ).
You will literally blow all sp on quarter of miniboss hp ( like that 270k druid in Tracker's ).

Old school divine soloing is dead ( pretty much like all DC casters, they are awesome to play and my guildie wizard with 63+ enchant is just pleasure to play with ), still can get 30 - 40 trash kills per shrine, but you really need a company and some solid dps mates for any tougher EE.

Your sp might not last for "easier" EE GH like Cry end bosses or something which is utterly trivial to do on a monkcher for example.

Single target sp efficient dps is just pathetic. Shiradi spam is just partial ( and boring tbh ) solution.

So group with people.

You can't hjeal meh when you solo.

Ancient
01-15-2014, 09:27 AM
Lastly, I gave you constructive criticism on how to improve the build. It always amazes me how personal people take constructive criticism on their builds. Try to read with a more open mind.

Suggesting a different build is not the same as suggestions on how to improve. Go sorc/wiz isn't a way to improve a pure FVS build.

That said, FVS can't match the synergy that arcanes have with shiradi, and to make matters worse... now divines are not as durable as arcanes either. This is not the opinion of some random arcane player. I published on of the first guides on pure DPS FVS, it is still in my sig. There is still some good information in there, and I keep it in my sig because it is a great build for easier EEs and grinding epic exp. It doesn't have the survival or offense to match my GM scourge build. I wish it did.

Miow
01-15-2014, 10:47 AM
Well i'm thinking of changing my fvs into a evo cleric for access to more sla's still haven't decided though. I don't put much into soloing myself since i group with friends most of the time.

Sebastrd
01-15-2014, 12:10 PM
Atomic has got a point here though. EE Lod is really easy, if we are talking soloing, unless you are in Shiradi you might not even make it to 1st shrine in Cry ( and that's with top 65+ DCs ).
You will literally blow all sp on quarter of miniboss hp ( like that 270k druid in Tracker's ).

Old school divine soloing is dead ( pretty much like all DC casters, they are awesome to play and my guildie wizard with 63+ enchant is just pleasure to play with ), still can get 30 - 40 trash kills per shrine, but you really need a company and some solid dps mates for any tougher EE.

Your sp might not last for "easier" EE GH like Cry end bosses or something which is utterly trivial to do on a monkcher for example.

Single target sp efficient dps is just pathetic. Shiradi spam is just partial ( and boring tbh ) solution.

I have no aspirations of soloing EE WGU with this build. However, in a time when many players avoid EE because of difficulty, I think a build that can solo even the easier EEs merits consideration. Taking an evoker FvS into EEs may not be ideal, but a build that can hold its own in EEs and do fantastic burst DPS* and heal a group (at which I'm terrible) and raid heal is pretty darn good.

*A cycle of Avenging Light, Searing Light SLA, Magic Missile SLA, and Ruin/Divine Punishment/Cometfall is enough to aggro bosses in every instance I can recall. I doubt I was competing with furyshot, but I have no idea.

I've discovered that Shiradi procs on wands, so I bought up a handful of MM(9) wands to test with. Could be fun if for no other reason than Nerve Venom procs :p

Seikojin
01-15-2014, 12:39 PM
If all you are doing is going to level 20 and immediately TRing, then the evocation focus feats (and Heighten) are pointless. Run through dungeons at top speed farting out blade barriers, and collect your XP. It's exactly that easy.

^This^ Best. Statement. Ever.

Ancient
01-15-2014, 01:02 PM
*A cycle of Avenging Light, Searing Light SLA, Magic Missile SLA, and Ruin/Divine Punishment/Cometfall is enough to aggro bosses in every instance I can recall. I doubt I was competing with furyshot, but I have no idea.

By magic missile SLA, are you refering to the wizard past life feat? Because the actual magic missile SLA requires a level of wiz.

AtomicMew
01-15-2014, 01:34 PM
Suggesting a different build is not the same as suggestions on how to improve. Go sorc/wiz isn't a way to improve a pure FVS build.

That said, FVS can't match the synergy that arcanes have with shiradi, and to make matters worse... now divines are not as durable as arcanes either. This is not the opinion of some random arcane player. I published on of the first guides on pure DPS FVS, it is still in my sig. There is still some good information in there, and I keep it in my sig because it is a great build for easier EEs and grinding epic exp. It doesn't have the survival or offense to match my GM scourge build. I wish it did.

My suggestion wasn't to go sorc or wiz, but to splash sorc or wiz. You can gain a lot of power from just a few levels and not really change the overall build goals and design. For example, my FvS is 18/1/1 fvs monk sorc. With gear, you can get 5 procs of magic missile, you still retain implosion and have much better saves from monk.

Ancient
01-15-2014, 02:05 PM
My suggestion wasn't to go sorc or wiz, but to splash sorc or wiz. You can gain a lot of power from just a few levels and not really change the overall build goals and design. For example, my FvS is 18/1/1 fvs monk sorc. With gear, you can get 5 procs of magic missile, you still retain implosion and have much better saves from monk.

That is an interesting splash. Does the 5 procs require the chronoscope item set?

Sebastrd
01-15-2014, 04:50 PM
By magic missile SLA, are you refering to the wizard past life feat? Because the actual magic missile SLA requires a level of wiz.

Yes, the past life SLA. If it wasn't apparent from the OP, this isn't a theorycraft build. It's what I'm currently running and probably will be until Turbine expands storage options. I just have too much **** in my TR cache to heroic TR again, so I'll keep epic TRing until I have more places to store my BtC **** or I break down and sell off raid gear.

AtomicMew
01-15-2014, 10:28 PM
That is an interesting splash. Does the 5 procs require the chronoscope item set?

Yep, one of the few old world items that still have a niche. Don't forget three piece chrono also gets you +3 spell penetration on implosion.

Ancient
01-16-2014, 01:39 AM
Yep, one of the few old world items that still have a niche. Don't forget three piece chrono also gets you +3 spell penetration on implosion.

I was just wondering if you had found another way since you had previously told me...


Chromoscope set is a waste of three gear slots.

The 18/1/1 class split is genius, I wouldn't have thought of that. I thought you needed 2 levels of wiz. Nice.

AtomicMew
01-18-2014, 12:54 AM
Context!

RumbIe
01-28-2014, 10:17 AM
Is there a build guide for an 18/1/1 split? I have a 1st life evoker that is not cutting it by a long shot. dusting it off now and want similar, viable, style. Lastly should i use my free +20 LR to switch to wiz for PL or would the FVS PL be ok for my f2nd life? I can always save it for right before my 3rd life if needed.

Ancient
01-28-2014, 10:49 AM
Context!

The context was I said a lvl 2 wiz could get max MM. Problem is that I was wrong.... a lvl 1 wiz can!

DaSawks
02-04-2014, 12:48 PM
This thread gives me giggles to the core. Someone posts (OP) a build that they think is LEET. Someone else thinks it is only leet and gives some advise. OP gets tweeked and rants. Others chime in with some more advise. Then everyone but OP agrees that Divine is gimpish on solo EE (not to be confuse with ee) and it is all Turbines fault.

Now for some (fuzzy/BS) math. At about 65 sp per cast / 200k hp bosses / 2700-3k sp there is no way to dps BIG boss' (not to be confused with big boss') without pots. Shame on you Turbine.

Sebastrd
02-04-2014, 02:28 PM
This thread gives me giggles to the core. Someone posts (OP) a build that they think is LEET. Someone else thinks it is only leet and gives some advise. OP gets tweeked and rants. Others chime in with some more advise. Then everyone but OP agrees that Divine is gimpish on solo EE (not to be confuse with ee) and it is all Turbines fault.

Now for some (fuzzy/BS) math. At about 65 sp per cast / 200k hp bosses / 2700-3k sp there is no way to dps BIG boss' (not to be confused with big boss') without pots. Shame on you Turbine.

Trust me, I was under no delusion that this build is LEET. The thread was more born of the fact that I assumed the build was ****, and it turned out to actually be good (but nowhere near LEET).

Where does the 65sp/cast number come from?

Wipey
02-04-2014, 02:34 PM
Quickened, empowered, maximized DP with some SLAs for good measure ?
Unless you are Shiradi, 200- 250k even optional bosses will laugh at your SP bar. Compared to sorc, or monkcher, or even puny melee.

You can work your mana for trash, and debuffs, and herding or invising past mobs, not the 317 billion bosses.

Hellyzabeth
02-04-2014, 04:41 PM
Now for some (fuzzy/BS) math. At about 65 sp per cast / 200k hp bosses / 2700-3k sp there is no way to dps BIG boss' (not to be confused with big boss') without pots. Shame on you Turbine.

Really depends on how fast you want him down.
Remeber that 3 stack of empower+maximized+quickened DP at 60-75 SP cost (depends on enhancements) hits for pretty much the same amount than a single Avenging Light with the same metamagic, which cost only 3 SP per cast.
So to stack it you spend about 200 sp for 8 hits. That's 25 sp. per tick, or 833% more costly; yet again, you have to time yourself right to enjoy 8 hits at triple stack without losing the stacks. Else it costs even more per hits.

Now, on a boss fight:
Lets say a 200k HP boss vs. light based FvS using SLA only (only will be calculating Wrath, Avenging light, Rebuke and Boulder Toss).
First off, see the boss HP at 160k because you shall be stacking Rebuke 5x on him.
Within a time frame of 1 minute you will be able to stick in (considering average, not high end Light/Impulse spell power):
4x Divine Wrath @ +/- 2k each = 8k for 120 sp.
20 Avenging Light @ +/- 650 each = 13k for 60 sp.
3 Boulder Toss @ +/- 2k each = 6k for 0sp.
30 Shoulder Cannon @ 100 each = 3k for 4sp.

That's a total of 30k. Average in some lore from gear/feats/enhancements. 33% is very easy to achieve. That's now 40k damage for 184 sp.
I conceide Wrath and Avenging Light have a fort save for half damage, but it's pretty much equal to the extra crit chances I didn't averaged in if builded properlly.
Based on this, the boss is dead in 4 mins, for 736 sp.
You may have to add a little bit of spell points for healing, beside Wrath to keep you up. Lets add 13x quickened + empower healed renew at 5sp.
800 sp is roughly all you need to slowly kill a 200k boss.....

And to push it even further, we got a total of 57 hits, 33% of which shall be a crit. That's 19 times Just Reward kicks in, for a potential net gain of 190 sp.
It's a slow fight, but not many caster builds can take down a 200k HP boss for +/- 600 SP.

Now if you want it dead a lot quicker but less cheaper, add in DP, Searing Light, Energy Burst and even Ruin.
Balance is the key.


200- 250k even optional bosses will laugh at your SP bar.

We shall read :
200-250k even optional bosses shall cry at their HP bar. :D

Jasparion
02-04-2014, 04:56 PM
Avenging Light is bugged. Despite being a Fort save, it actually works with a Reflex save. So your example wont work, because in EE everything Evades unless you have 70 Evo DC.

And anyone who can get a 70 Eco DC has given up on FvS and gone to Druid or Wizard. Or just rolled a Bladeforged Monkcher/Fighter/whatever...

Hellyzabeth
02-04-2014, 05:10 PM
The only bug that affects Avenging Light is the display of 'Evade' above mobs's head when they make their fort save.
You will still hit them for half damage. Tested.
If it was trully an evasion check, there would be an 'Evade' only, without damages afterwards.
(And I wasn't using any other spells, nor having Archon active at the moment I tested it)

Sebastrd
02-04-2014, 07:59 PM
Quickened, empowered, maximized DP with some SLAs for good measure ?
Unless you are Shiradi, 200- 250k even optional bosses will laugh at your SP bar. Compared to sorc, or monkcher, or even puny melee.

You can work your mana for trash, and debuffs, and herding or invising past mobs, not the 317 billion bosses.

I am in Shiradi, and how is sorc or monk relevant to a FvS build?

Sebastrd
02-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Actual math...

That's a lot closer to my experience.

My boss rotation is generally Avenging Light and Searing Light SLA with Divine Punishment (for high HP bosses, mostly to speed the process) and Magic Missile SLA (from Wiz PL). Once the Missile SLA runs out I switch to the Sorc PL SLA (which isn't very good and I'll be swapping out next ETR) and add in Meteor Swarm from Epic Ruby Gauntlets. Occasionally I'll throw an Energy Burst for the chance at a 5k crit. Coccoon is good enough healing against most bosses, but occasionally I have to throw a quickened heal. Healing Spring and Bottomless Rum supplement healing as needed.

Wipey
02-04-2014, 11:53 PM
math and stuff
200-250k even optional bosses shall cry at their HP bar. :D
And that's the whole point, Ruin, Hellball, Energy Burst, Boulder, cheap SLAs, Div Wrath = less wisdom.
Might as well leave "the evoker " ( aka high enough evocation DC to warrant it for using your spell book against EE trash ) part from the title heh.
I know such build works, I had fvs similar to yours, just pally instead monk, but that's besides the point here.


And anyone who can get a 70 Eco DC has given up on FvS and gone to Druid or Wizard. Or just rolled a Bladeforged Monkcher/Fighter/whatever...

I know at least one that hasn't.

AtomicMew
02-05-2014, 05:25 AM
Really depends on how fast you want him down.
Remeber that 3 stack of empower+maximized+quickened DP at 60-75 SP cost (depends on enhancements) hits for pretty much the same amount than a single Avenging Light with the same metamagic, which cost only 3 SP per cast.
So to stack it you spend about 200 sp for 8 hits. That's 25 sp. per tick, or 833% more costly; yet again, you have to time yourself right to enjoy 8 hits at triple stack without losing the stacks. Else it costs even more per hits.

Now, on a boss fight:
Lets say a 200k HP boss vs. light based FvS using SLA only (only will be calculating Wrath, Avenging light, Rebuke and Boulder Toss).
First off, see the boss HP at 160k because you shall be stacking Rebuke 5x on him.
Within a time frame of 1 minute you will be able to stick in (considering average, not high end Light/Impulse spell power):
4x Divine Wrath @ +/- 2k each = 8k for 120 sp.
20 Avenging Light @ +/- 650 each = 13k for 60 sp.
3 Boulder Toss @ +/- 2k each = 6k for 0sp.
30 Shoulder Cannon @ 100 each = 3k for 4sp.

That's a total of 30k. Average in some lore from gear/feats/enhancements. 33% is very easy to achieve. That's now 40k damage for 184 sp.
I conceide Wrath and Avenging Light have a fort save for half damage, but it's pretty much equal to the extra crit chances I didn't averaged in if builded properlly.
Based on this, the boss is dead in 4 mins, for 736 sp.
You may have to add a little bit of spell points for healing, beside Wrath to keep you up. Lets add 13x quickened + empower healed renew at 5sp.
800 sp is roughly all you need to slowly kill a 200k boss.....



We shall read :
200-250k even optional bosses shall cry at their HP bar. :D

Your math is bogus and backed up in exactly zero gameplay vids or achievements I've seen. Disagree? All you need to do is post a video or heck, even a screenshot to prove it. EE WGU, EE breaking the ranks, or perhaps the new F2P quest in house C (which I haven't gotten around to yet). There's a reaosn monkchers and arcanes are the most popular meta builds. It's not because divines are secretly awesome, it's simply because they have the best ranged DPS.

Now for some real math:

Avenging light: 10d4 + 40 = 65 base damage. To obtain 650 average damage, you need a multiplier of 10 (outside of rebuke and crits, which you already accounted for). This is equivalent to 900 spellpower, which is impossible.


And to push it even further, we got a total of 57 hits, 33% of which shall be a crit. That's 19 times Just Reward kicks in, for a potential net gain of 190 sp.
It's a slow fight, but not many caster builds can take down a 200k HP boss for +/- 600 SP.

Now if you want it dead a lot quicker but less cheaper, add in DP, Searing Light, Energy Burst and even Ruin.
Balance is the key.

Going by the same flawed logic, arcanes can take down 200k bosses using exactly Zero SP, thanks to just rewards using cheap SLAs and spells. Obviously that isn't the case because other spells are cast, but that's the type of argument you're making.

Hellyzabeth
02-05-2014, 03:35 PM
Going by the same flawed logic.....

With all the respect I have for you Punch, I'm not going to dive into such comments, but rather answer your points based on actual gameplay which I beleive will be far more constructive on a build/class forum.



Your math is bogus and backed up in exactly zero gameplay vids or achievements I've seen. Disagree? All you need to do is post a video or heck, even a screenshot to prove it. EE WGU, EE breaking the ranks, or perhaps the new F2P quest in house C (which I haven't gotten around to yet).

Challlenge accepted.
I just went to make another eE completion of Brother of the Forge, using my FvS; a 16FvS/2Monk/2Paly split. I choose this one over the 3 you offered because of the challenge it gives to my character. Many ennemies in there take reduced amounts of light damages and are healed by my fire bursts. All are over CR70 with huge amount of HP. I took 3 pots at end fight mainly to get rid of the boss quicker since I have only 4 clickies of displace yet and the no save dazes + possible KD from failed reflex save against tactical detonation is a killer.
http://imageshack.com/a/img268/1364/jv72.jpg

Now me blessing my final chest, and sadly pulled nothing of interest.
http://imageshack.com/a/img30/2627/5jbt.jpg


There's a reaosn monkchers and arcanes are the most popular meta builds. It's not because divines are secretly awesome, it's simply because they have the best ranged DPS.

You are right, monkchers are amazing at dealing insane amount of damage. I have 1 that I play quite a lot (pretty similar to Sestra's build). Shiradi arcanes a very impressive as well, I play 1 too. Both are trully viable at soloing eE if it's what you want to do. But that cannot and shouldn't disqualify all other options; FvS being another very viable eE soloer. It's all based on taste and preferences, but I personaly enjoy playing my FvS a lot more than my other toons, enough to rethink my final life on my soon-to-be-capped 87 past lifer. As for best ranged DPS, based on my personal experience, Monkcher wins by far against single target (bosses) while FvS wins against pack of trash. Shiradi is insane when you pull Joy and fine the rest of the time. But I prefer a clean completion of a difficult quest based on direct and constant damage over a possible lottery ticket from tea or a recall-out-to-shrine-and-pray that such build sometimes offers.

In case you feel like asking a screeny to back up my statement about FvS being a solid trash killer:

eH LiD zerg, no shrine for opt. (Note that i barely used half of my SP)
http://imageshack.com/a/img812/5843/evbo.jpg

eE CitW
http://imageshack.com/a/img856/3900/52r7.jpg


Your math is bogus.....

Now for some real math:
Avenging light: 10d4 + 40 = 65 base damage. To obtain 650 average damage, you need a multiplier of 10 (outside of rebuke and crits, which you already accounted for). This is equivalent to 900 spellpower, which is impossible.

Your maths seems right. But I based my statements on actual gameplay rather than hypothetical calculation.
Note that on the following screenshot I'm not buffed and my light spell power is far from being optimal (24 shy on staff, no spellcraft tome, and wishing I had 3x morninglord PL).
The variation between damages is largely infuenced by how many stacks of scourge are charged.
But based on experience, most of the hits are in the 600, while crits are in the 1200 (both halved on a save).... and this is without rebuke stacks.
http://imageshack.com/a/img37/5536/4q51.jpg

Now back on topic.
eE viable for evoker?
Yes it is, but most of your feats/enhancements won't benefits the abilities you'll be using to be effective at end-game. Better build for a straight damage FvS.

Jasparion
02-05-2014, 03:56 PM
The only bug that affects Avenging Light is the display of 'Evade' above mobs's head when they make their fort save.
You will still hit them for half damage. Tested.
If it was trully an evasion check, there would be an 'Evade' only, without damages afterwards.
(And I wasn't using any other spells, nor having Archon active at the moment I tested it)

I will need to take another look at this, but Im sure I get Evade and zero damage. Certainly with Frost Lance of the 3 bolts I will get 1 or 2 Evades every time and they do zero damage.

Also, it is the Assassins (which have insanely high Reflexes) which are "evading" and very rarely the Bodyguards (which I assume have high Fort saves) and Wizards (which possibly only have high Will save).

AtomicMew
02-05-2014, 04:34 PM
That's all very impressive. I stand corrected! I guess I would have to take some time to re-evaluate divines and give Brothers of the Forge a try as well.

AtomicMew
02-05-2014, 04:49 PM
By the way, your combat log says you're casting avenging light at level 40. Can you explain that to me?

xTethx
02-05-2014, 05:00 PM
That's all very impressive. I stand corrected! I guess I would have to take some time to re-evaluate divines and give Brothers of the Forge a try as well.

His only mistake is he should take insidious spores for that quest! It's hella op for constructs. And I agree, fvs evokers are very strong in ee. They just need to be played right.

Hellyzabeth
02-05-2014, 10:45 PM
By the way, your combat log says you're casting avenging light at level 40. Can you explain that to me?

Not really but this is the closest I can come to:
I did few tests few days ago to try to figure out if intense faith and zealous faith were useful on my SLAs, but I haven't tested far enough yet.
I don't recall either if I tested as FvS18/Mnk2 or after LR to FvS16/Mnk2/Pal2
Logs seemed to display caster levels independantly of max caster level, hence a DP (max. level 20) could be shown at caster level 27 but trully be cast at 23 (with 3 zealous faith).

Luckily, I still have some of the notes I took.
I tested without intense/zealous, with 1 point in each, 2 points then 3. I didn't tested with intense alone (or maybe I did but don't have the notes anymore).
Here's the caster level results.
Searing Light, Divine Punish and Blade Barrier : 24 / 25 / 26 / 27
Avenging Light, Divine Wrath : 34 / 36 / 38 / 40
Archon : 24 / 26 / 28 / 30
Hellball : Not tested / 9 / 10 / 11

To reflect these numbers, a 16/2/2 split in exalted angel destiny and no intense/zealous would get:
24 on spells: 16 natural +6 destiny +2?? (see below)
34 on SLA: 28 levels +6 destiny

Note that destiny state that I gain +1 cleric, paladin, and FvS caster levels per core, thus could explains the reason I get +8 to my spellbook spells. (6 for at least 6 FvS levels, 2 for paladin levels).
Based on previous tests, this is a display issue and have no real impact on gameplay since Searing, DP and BB have a maximum caster level that I already reached.

Same applies with SLAs gaining 2 caster levels per points in faith; display issue only according to my Archon test I did back then, explained below:
Test done on ship, using an helpless training dummy (taking 50% extra damages) but without any rebuke stacks.
Light Spell Power was probably around 380, (pretty sure I used 10 stacks of scourge, but without righteous favor stacks or spell power boost) Knowing myself, all 4 tests were made within the exact same conditions. (Technically Archon uses half your spell power, thus +/- 190 in these conditions)
Archon : 1d3 + 1 per caster level. (Archon keeps the spell power you had when summoned and throughout duration).
In fact, I was getting 4 different damage numbers so I suspect it to be either 1d4+1 or when I was rolling a 2, the engine calculation wasn't always accurate (middle numbers were very close)
1 from caster level + spell power + 50% from helpless seems to be right since ticks were gaining roughly 4-6 damage per points in faiths, where 2 Clvl shall net +/-9.

To sum up, caster level aren't displayed accurately in logs but still WAI.

Sebastrd
02-05-2014, 10:50 PM
Actual gameplay results...

Thank you.

Ancient
02-06-2014, 12:38 AM
Yes it is, but most of your feats/enhancements won't benefits the abilities you'll be using to be effective at end-game. Better build for a straight damage FvS.

Wow.... now I have to go rebuild my FVS.

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 07:52 AM
Now back on topic.
eE viable for evoker?
Yes it is, but most of your feats/enhancements won't benefits the abilities you'll be using to be effective at end-game. Better build for a straight damage FvS.

Since I'll be doing my next ETR soon, what do you recommend?

For feats, I'm pretty set on Empower Heal (for Coccoon, etc.), Empower & Maximize, Toughness & Epic Toughness, Quicken (Heal & Mass Heal), Past Life Wiz (SLA for Shiradi Procs). That doesn't leave room for the whole Mental Toughness line or that would be my next choice for the spell crit chance. What do you suggest?

I'm a lot more open to suggestions on the enhancements. I generally go heavy into the AoV line for the evo boosts and the capstone SLA, max out my healing amp in the human line, and take a few extras like toughness in the WP line.

Hellyzabeth
02-06-2014, 10:26 AM
Since I'll be doing my next ETR soon, what do you recommend?

For feats, I'm pretty set on Empower Heal (for Coccoon, etc.), Empower & Maximize, Toughness & Epic Toughness, Quicken (Heal & Mass Heal), Past Life Wiz (SLA for Shiradi Procs). That doesn't leave room for the whole Mental Toughness line or that would be my next choice for the spell crit chance. What do you suggest?

I'm a lot more open to suggestions on the enhancements. I generally go heavy into the AoV line for the evo boosts and the capstone SLA, max out my healing amp in the human line, and take a few extras like toughness in the WP line.

From what I read, your next ETR is in primal sphere (shiradi) using a pure lvl 20 FvS (AoV capstone), which is kinda different from what I did.
Depending on your usual leveling quests and the difficulty you are going to run 'em, i see 2 viable options.

1. Running mostly in eE? Shiradi might be more appropriate, SP wise.
As a shiradi your feats seems right, but I'd take mental toughness line (SP, crits, just reward) rather than Wiz PL (unless you're human/pdk)
Even if the SLA from wiz is nice for more procs, 10 uses/rest disqualify it from a build that is tight on feats.
All the way Charisma for more SP, pack as much spwr in fire / light / force as you can (synergies well with scourge/AoV crits)
Twist could be e.burst fire, cocoon and either Avenging Light, Boulder or Spore depending on content/difficulty.
Use emp+max on SLAs, balance metas on other spells as needed. More spwr is nice, but very costly on this build.
Think over the line of more hits(procs) = more damages rather than straight damages.
Kite packs in circles around BB for lots of procs with the right radius then dispatch evaders/statics with other spells.

This option is viable for eE but far from what an arcane shiradi can achieve.

2. Zerging mostly in eH 'till 28 then ETR again?
Primal Avatar all the way, wisdom all the way.
Feats: Quicken, Maximized, Mental toughness** (completionist if you have), heighten, Wiz PL, Spell Focus Necro, Improved Necro. +Empower if human.
Epic : e focus necro, and 2 wis.
(you don't have empower heal, but your spwr will easily back it up in eH, most things will be dead before they can hurt.)
Max wis to an even number in primal. Twist acute instinct(fury), 3necro(magister), 2evoc(draconic).
Use archon to help keep spirit boon (wis) active all the time. Only use strength of spirit when you're sure to have enough spirit charges to support it.
Drink rage pots every 1:30 mins (acute instinct)
As high as you can from gear/enhancements: Spell pen, Evoc DC, Necro DC.
Main spells : Slay Living, Destruction, Implosion, meta'd BB.
Depending on FvS/Wiz PL, drow will sometimes make a spell pen check but you will still rock the place in eH.
Spell points management will by your main focus.
Don't be the guy who insta-kill a 10%-hp-left-cornered-by-melees mob. Just don't, unless you have the mana pots to back it up. ;)
And judge your fights. Usualy melee mobs have the highest fort save (your main concern) while archers and casters are lower.
Leave that rushing headless giant to your group, wing-off and take care of ranged/casters behind.
And if your group dies against an eH giant because the healer was not around for 8 secs, it's a lot more SP wise to carry their stones rather than rez.
Sad reality but true. (this shouldn't refrain you from rezing a player newer to game and teaching him the ropes).

Back on topic,
In my opinion, if you're shooting for the quicker way to get to 28 and ETR again, option 2 is better.
You can still join eE LFMs, kill what you can (past lifes/gear will influence this a lot), but you may have to rely a bit more on your healing abilities while other rack up kills.

Both options would largely gain from a 2 monk splash if you can afford a LR+3 (xtra feats, evasion, dodge, +2wis.....) as FvS capstone doesn't offer much in those scenarios.

Hope this helps.

Edit : forgot to add, if you can't afford a LR or simply don't want to splash, make sure you're using 2 weapons rather than a staff and make good use of the Primal's nature's evasion (left column up to tier 6). With cocoon, spirit boon and 6xwis, this leaves only 1 point that must be taken tier 3 or below at your own taste.

Ancient
02-06-2014, 11:21 AM
Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer? I saw your CITW screen, do you use mass cures or do you specialize in tank healing or do you just spot heal... really fast?

SirValentine
02-06-2014, 11:44 AM
Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer?


What do you miss besides Mass Heal? Which really isn't needed much. Even when I was FvS 20 and had Mass Heal, I very rarely used it. Divine Wrath, Renewal, a Mass Cure or two...plenty of healing options.

Hellyzabeth
02-06-2014, 12:15 PM
Is 16 FVS enough to be a raid healer? I saw your CITW screen, do you use mass cures or do you specialize in tank healing or do you just spot heal... really fast?

eN CitW was very easy to solo heal (and I was 18/2 at that time). Most of the trash won't survive a wrath+burst combo. Time yourself with the spiders spawns around legs and you probably won't even have to worry about heals. Drider section is similar but a bit more tricky. With your aura, your AoE, your canon..... you'll pick up a lot of agro. Watch those over stacked DP on you and heal as required. But more importantly, watch the spider web-line trip warning. You have about 1 sec to block or you'll be prone and ready to be killed. You need to be mobile and have good reflexes. eE CitW, there was a cleric too and his aura helped a lot, mostly once thru portals.

I have to conceide I'm kinda quick on my keyboard too. :D If you take a closer look to my screenies, I have +/- 20 spells/abilities that I can use while moving/kiting due to the fact they are all within number 1-6 + a combinason of mouse thumb buttons.
As for raid healing, 16 is more than enough with my play style. I hate casting time of mass heal even quickened, and sometimes will be deadly to you because you move slower while casting it.
Wrath alone heals for more and you can add in a quickened+empowered cure mod mass in middle of cooldown if required. Even easier with a solid group that is half to fully self-suff.
Between those, 3 sec cooldown renew on someone who is down to 50% will cover it. (don't wait too long as renew heals after 2 secs, no initial tick).
In very situational emergency I will throw a heal.
I even stopped to carry scrolls and took off scroll enhancements, getting better results by eliminating the threat rather that switching to scroll, slowly read it, then switching back to staff.
A good trick to be an effective healer is to communicate with your group. It's a lot easier for you if the whole group stays togheter and move from 1 target to another. The more interesting part of it, it usualy makes the raid complete quicker too. (I solo healed a CitW back when my FvS was a Str based warchanter bard this way, and used only 1 pot at end fight, altho I used about 80 scrolls). If 1 of your party members deceide to split to take his own targets to show-off his 'amazing' DPS, fine! As long as DPS isn't his only trick. A spot renew from time to time is fine with me, but if he beleives I'll waste 11 other people ressources to be his personal hireling, he'll end up as a stone in my pocket... and maybe drop the stone far enough from shrine to be able to pick it up later and throw only a rez once the raid is completed.

I only see 2 downsides of 16 FvS and mass heal.
1. At the end of a Shroud run, you'll have to ask in party who has a poison going (if they don't carry pots).... or say nothing and laugh when they takes a 1000 con hit on a failed save :D:D:D
2. Be turned down from a group because the leader don't beleive you can heal. This happened to me with PuGs but very rarely. 1 of which, the guy was being a real jerk after I told him I could heal his eChrono. So I went in solo, ran it as fast as I could, skipping opts, and came back out with a boot shard that I linked him while he was still waiting to fill his LFM. Fun times.

Sebastrd
02-06-2014, 02:08 PM
From what I read, your next ETR is in primal sphere (shiradi) using a pure lvl 20 FvS (AoV capstone), which is kinda different from what I did.
Depending on your usual leveling quests and the difficulty you are going to run 'em, i see 2 viable options.

I still have 6mil karma in a couple other spheres, but that's about right.

1. Running mostly in eE? Shiradi might be more appropriate, SP wise. I'm trying to run EE almost exclusively lately, both for the experience and the loot.
As a shiradi your feats seems right, but I'd take mental toughness line (SP, crits, just reward) rather than Wiz PL (unless you're human/pdk) Half-elf (monk dill), so I'll skip Wiz PL and try out the M Toughness line next life.
Even if the SLA from wiz is nice for more procs, 10 uses/rest disqualify it from a build that is tight on feats. Fair enough. It's fun to own aggro in 99% of groups though :P
All the way Charisma for more SP, pack as much spwr in fire / light / force as you can (synergies well with scourge/AoV crits) I went all the way Wis for DCs for two reasons - 1) It's nice to throw an effective insta-kill or cometfall when needed, and 2) I never miss the SP.
Twist could be e.burst fire, cocoon and either Avenging Light, These are my typical twists exactly. Boulder or Spore depending on content/difficulty.
Use emp+max on SLAs, balance metas on other spells as needed. More spwr is nice, but very costly on this build. I've learned to keep the metas turned on at all times to effect Shiradi procs and turn them off on specific spells as needed.
Think over the line of more hits(procs) = more damages rather than straight damages. This is one of the only reasons I still keep Flamestrike - it hits twice :P
Kite packs in circles around BB for lots of procs with the right radius then dispatch evaders/statics with other spells. The dance of the FvS, lol

This option is viable for eE but far from what an arcane shiradi can achieve. I'd prefer to save my LR +20 to skip a barb life, so it's FvS until I can HTR again.

Edit : forgot to add, if you can't afford a LR or simply don't want to splash, make sure you're using 2 weapons rather than a staff I invested a lot of time and effort in my Twilight :P

Responses in red. TL;DR - We're basically on the same page.

Jasparion
02-06-2014, 04:09 PM
This topic is about EE capable Divines... I'd love to know how to make them work in EH !

I have 53 DC on my Evo spells and mobs still constantly Evade or save for half. Implosion seems to have all sorts of problems. Sometimes I get 5 mobs, sometimes I get none. In Shiradi the only time I ever really do a lot of damage is using my Wiz PL Magic Missiles. In Exalted Angel I get heaps of Spell Points, but really dont do a lot of DPS. Energy Burst is about the only thing which does reasonable damage - but even then, once again, mobs are constantly saving.

So how are you guys getting EH content cleared? I take 30 min in VON 3, where as with a Sorc I do it in under 10 min.

Wipey
02-06-2014, 05:25 PM
67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

53 evo is way too low.

Angelic-council
02-10-2014, 05:59 AM
67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

53 evo is way too low.

Yup. Btw, well done hellyzabeth!
I have Fvs myself, fully evocation focused nova-soul. Currently sitting at 67 evocation DC (69 with AoM), I have no problem with GH trash. However, implosion does fail sometimes.
Against Storm-horn Orcs and Giants.. yes indeed, not that much lol. DC casting is very poor on higher level EE contents. It should be.
That's why many necromancers use energy drain first (it's easier now that they have energy drain on wail). But, FvS don't... only as level 9 spell (sigh). Plus, Implosion is bugged for like.. a year now?
I don't think it's ever going to be fixed so, what's the point in going evocation DC caster anyways (unless you solo). As helly said, direct damage caster is a choice. Just get high SP, HP, dodge, dexterity items.. blur and incorporeal (scrolls etc) for survival and multi class. Since, Fvs has very fewer offensive spells selection.. you have to be becareful when using blade barrier etc.. some mobs switch to range. You also can't just randomly throw spells like fire storm, divine punishment, it's mana consuming and not powerful without meta magics. I personally want kills so, I have no choice, but to use mana pots sometime lol...
What do you say to this Hellyzabeth, was it hard for you to solo that house C quest on EE? I'm sure it took you.. a while.

Hellyzabeth
02-10-2014, 05:04 PM
Yup. Btw, well done hellyzabeth!

What do you say to this Hellyzabeth, was it hard for you to solo that house C quest on EE? I'm sure it took you.. a while.

Thanks !!!!

Was it hard to solo? It is a very challenging quest for a character like this. With many small corridors and limited room to kite the packs of heavy hitting scorpions, coupled with golems that takes reduced amounts of light damages (and you don't want to fire burst/heal them either), it was an hard one and it took just under 1 hour to complete.

To tell the truth, I made this character to be a resistant and useful party enhancer. It can heal, it can make it's share of DPS, is pretty hard to kill and it can also bless chests. It is one of my favorite toon in term of play-style. This character shines in a full party, where someone more resistant than you can grab aggro and group up the mobs for you to AoE nuke them. The quests and difficulty you are playing have a big influence over the result as well. This isn't the best suited character for quests where there's fewer ennemies with high HP. On the other hand, hordes of lower HP trash will fear you like crazy.

If my main target was to solo eE most of the time, I have other toons that can get the job done quicker and safer. OP was about eE viable FvS and they are. They are better in group, but still solo viable. I've posted this to show that there is other options possible beside the 2 we always see when it comes to solo eE. Many other builds are able to achieve the same result as well; the player's skill and the knowledge of game mechanics are the main factors while the build/gear comes next.

I don't think and never will that the devs are making quests based on seasoned players that can solo them on eE. For the majority of the players eH is already a challenge. At first, DDO is ment to be a party played game. I personally prefer party playing (or at least small groups) even if I know that my character can get the job done by himself. On the other hand, if someone's playstyle is about mastering each eE quest solo, it's good to know that with time and effort you can achieve it... but a FvS nuker ain't the best at it. :p

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 05:19 PM
67 or better implosion will get you good results, Shadows, Assassins, High Road mobs, almost all GH trash.
Stormhorns orcs and giants, not so much.
Some 55 necro will work on casters with Energy drain first, might get assassin too occasionally.
Sunburst is brilliant against shadows too, but that's for cleric of course.

53 evo is way too low.

67 is what Arcanes do in EE.

I am talking about struggling in EH content with low/mid 50s. If I had 67 DC in EH and struggled Im pretty sure I would delete the toon...

In terms of a blaster build rather than insta-kill build - If you stack Charisma for SP, ignore Spell Focus and instead go for Crit... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?

serthcore
02-10-2014, 05:57 PM
67 is what Arcanes do in EE.

I am talking about struggling in EH content with low/mid 50s. If I had 67 DC in EH and struggled Im pretty sure I would delete the toon...

In terms of a blaster build rather than insta-kill build - If you stack Charisma for SP, ignore Spell Focus and instead go for Crit... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?

When you run with that toon you just assume that it will always do half damage, but its still very nice when kiting, just make sure enemies don't have evasion.

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 06:09 PM
When you run with that toon you just assume that it will always do half damage, but its still very nice when kiting, just make sure enemies don't have evasion.

Nice in practice. But it feels like everything from High Road/Wheloon/Stormhorns has evasion !

Wipey
02-10-2014, 06:29 PM
67 is what Arcanes do in EE.


Hmm not sure what you meant by this. Cleric / fvs can get higher ( practical ) evo than arcane.
I doubt there are actually any sorcs or wizards with that high evo.

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 07:02 PM
Hmm not sure what you meant by this. Cleric / fvs can get higher ( practical ) evo than arcane.
I doubt there are actually any sorcs or wizards with that high evo.

I wasnt specifically talking about Evo DCs. DCs in general.

And the thing is, you dont tend to get up to 67 DC by running EE content. Im finding it stupidly hard to solo higher level EH content. And I really dont want to only run VON 3 and VON 5 all the way to 28...

Hellyzabeth
02-10-2014, 09:35 PM
... how are your Blade Barriers doing any damage at all? Surely everything will evade?

Lot of things evades.
On my character, BB DC is around 24. I'm not casting it empowered nor maximized either. The result is a pathetic low damage spell, even on normal.
That's why I never use it, unless I want to charge scourge quicker. ;)

serthcore
02-10-2014, 10:08 PM
Lot of things evades.
On my character, BB DC is around 24. I'm not casting it empowered nor maximized either. The result is a pathetic low damage spell, even on normal.
That's why I never use it, unless I want to charge scourge quicker. ;)

I have a cha based fvs similar to yours and i still use it... only when i know i have the sp to spare and mobs don't have evade, heh.
But yeah, in the end it comes to use avenging light, energy burst, divine wrath, searing light, boulder toss and the ocasional hellball and ruin.

And i also agree that this kind of fvs is EE capabe, you just have to adapt your playstile, it isnt about burst dps, but slow and steady (for single target) dps, and high AOE'ish damage.

Sebastrd
03-18-2014, 06:44 AM
You shouldn't list low level easy epics as a benchmark for how good a build is. Solo EE highroads, stormhorns etc is about the right benchmark to consider a build as "good". It's about the right challenge for people who'd be considered "gamers" and even still, those quests aren't even in the same league of difficulty as even some current console games.

As for your build, 20 evoker FvS just doesn't cut it. You simply don't have enough DPS to take down EE bosses without resorting to pots (do some math). You really want multiproccing spells to take advantage of shiradi, which would mean splashing some arcane levels as the easiest route.

Does EE Thorn and Paw count?

Nahiz
03-19-2014, 02:59 PM
I don't think and never will that the devs are making quests based on seasoned players that can solo them on eE. For the majority of the players eH is already a challenge. At first, DDO is ment to be a party played game. I personally prefer party playing (or at least small groups) even if I know that my character can get the job done by himself. On the other hand, if someone's playstyle is about mastering each eE quest solo, it's good to know that with time and effort you can achieve it... but a FvS nuker ain't the best at it. :p

Well said! And you backed up your arguments with screenshots, maths... and all that while being polite and humble! I wish more powergamers were like you, sir.