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Cetus
12-22-2013, 02:43 PM
Cetus: Completionist Bladeforged 12 Fighter/6 Monk/2 Paladin

Note: This build is designed for advanced players who desire effectiveness in epic elite content. It is also centered around +5 tomes for the purposes of meeting stat requirements.


Class Progression: First, Second, and Sixth monk levels are the only important ones, since they receive feats at those levels.

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 12, Constitution: 12, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 8, Charisma: 16

Feats

12 Fighter = 7 Feats. Bladeforged = 7 feats. 6 Monk = 3 Feats. Epic feats = 3 Feats. 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 20 Feats.

Add 2 Destiny feats + Paladin Deity + Monk light/dark path = 24 total feat decisions.

Ranged:

1. Improved Critical: Ranged
2. Weapon Focus: Ranged
3. Bow Strength
4. Manyshot (much later when +5 Dex tome kicks in)
5. Point Blank Shot
6. Rapid Shot
7. Zen Archery (should be taken as level 6 monk class feat when +5 Wisdom kicks in at level 19 for the 13 wisdom requirement)

Melee:

8. Power Attack (Should be taken as Level 1 or 2 Monk class feat)
9. Two Handed Fighting (Should be taken as Level 1 or 2 Monk Class feat)
10. Improved Two Handed Fighting
11. Stunning Blow
12. Weapon focus: Slashing
13. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Cleave
17. Great Cleave
18. Overwhelming Critical


Other:

19. Completionist
20. Master of Forms (Adept is granted at level 6 monk, so this will occupy an epic feat slot)
21. Paladin: Follower of the Lord of Blades
22. Monk: Light Path
23. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
24. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

Skills: All Levelup skills into maxing out UMD and Repair (leftovers into whatever you want, perhaps balance).

Twists:

This assumes maximum fate points:

For normal questing:

Bane Of Undeath
Dance of Flowers
Sense Weakness
Pin

For max DPS runs w/o shrine:

Sense Weakness
Hail of Blows
Tunnel Vision
Dance of Flowers

For EE Deathwyrm:

Grim Precision
Piercing Clarity
Dance of Flowers
Bane of Undeath

Enhancements:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/EnhShot_zps5433aba0.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/EnhShot_zps5433aba0.jpg.html)

*Divine Might: Everytime I use my power surge, damage boost, haste boost, I automatically hit divine might. When I had the second tier version of it, I ended up hitting it like every thirty seconds anyway just as part of the boost rotation. So, tier 2 is not needed - but I have a razr naga mouse that accommodates efficient boosting, if you don't then this decision might not be optimal for you.

Main Destiny Points:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/LDShot_zps2d6ef3b4.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/LDShot_zps2d6ef3b4.jpg.html)

Gear:

Necklace: EE Stolen Necklace w/ Insightful +2 Charisma Slotted, Charisma +10, and Accuracy +9 (This is useful for manyshotting, sometimes the bow grazes)
Helmet:: EE Black Dragon Helmet w/ +3 Insightful Constitution Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood Green Slot: Good Luck +2
Goggles: Deadly X of Resistance +10
Armor: Flawless Black Dragonscale Docent: Slotted Wisdom +8 Epic Bladesmark Docent is also a powerful supplement Epic Mournlode Docent for Undead/Temple runs = 70% fort bypass between 15% grim precision, 35% TF weapon, and 20% weaken undead
Bracer: Dumathoin's Bracers: Dexterity +11, Natural Armor +10, Sheltering +30, Elemental Resistance +45, Blue Slot: Con +8
Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness: Constitution +8, Combat Mastery +5, Seeker +12
Ring 2: Seal of Dun'Robar: Stunning +10
Boots: Ogre Power +10 Boots of False Life +50
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves: Sneak Attack +5, Exceptional Sneak attack +3, Improved Deception, Bluff +20, Yellow Slot: +250 Spell Points
Belt: Battle-Rager's Harness w/ Vitality + 20 Slot
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf: Exceptional Seeker +5, Attack bonus +4
Trinket: Litany of the Dead

Weapons:

Trash: Thunder-Forged Falchion: Tier 1: Reconstruction 150, Tier 2: Armor Piercing 35%, Tier 3: Mortal Feat. Red Slot: Meteoric Star Ruby, Orange Slot: Vampiric Augment, Colorless Slot: Repair +15 Augment

Red Named: Thunder-Forged Falchion: Tier 1: 1st Degree Burns, Tier 2: Armor Piercing 35%, Tier 3: Crippling Flames. Red Slot: Reconstruction 138, Orange Slot: Deconstructor, Colorless Slot: Repair +15 Augment

Boost Regenerating Weapon: Thunder-Forged Falchion with Draconic Reinvigoration Tier 3

Ranged: Longbow Versions of the three falchions above

Few metagame tricks:

1. Upon zoning into quest, wear Verik's necklace instead of EE Stolen necklace, Replace Adamantine cloak of the wolf with Charisma 10 cloak with slot, place +2 Insightful 2 Cha in slot (I have a cloak like this with accuracy 11 on the tail end)

Once 2 boosts are used, switch for Cloak of the wolf + Stolen Necklace.

2. When manyshotting, hit yourself with a reconstruct first, so that you get full 22% ranged alacrity (goatskin doesn't seem to give it right now)


End Stats fully buffed with yugo pots/rage/store pot/Fire finisher in EARTH STANCE
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/ScreenShot00039_zps6f7aa09c.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/ScreenShot00039_zps6f7aa09c.jpg.html)

Stunning Blow DC:

82 Str (without Store pot - screenshot has 85 with store pot) = 36 Modifier + Stunning +10 + Combat Mastery +5 + LD +6 + 10 Base + 3 Past lives + 4 Enhancement + 2 fearsome presence = 76

Trip DC with Bladesmark Docent:

81 (With all applicable stunning modifiers with vertigo 15 providing 5 more)

Videos:

EE EDA Mostly ESOS + Earth Stance (24:16)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3qEL7qMV4k

EE EDA Thunder Forged Falchion + Wind Stance (23:43)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPZhiekDJdQ

EE LOD Speed Run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUor8FklSCE

EE WGU Solo:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKTLXzPogEE

Ctype
12-22-2013, 03:13 PM
Thanks for sharing - my guess wasnt too bad on how it would be it seems hehe.

Its a really great build - I love mine and i recommend it if your after a fun fighter type.

TheLegendOfAra
12-22-2013, 04:51 PM
Hahahaha
That thread title...
Hahahaha

Laughing aside, I like the looks of this.
To lazy to search, Fearsome presence doesn't actually inflict fear, does it?
If so that seems like it would be really unhelpful.
I don't like it when mobs run away.

Jasparion
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
So its like the Warforged version. With Bladeforged. And the key component is Pinion and Manyshot.

Nothing wrong with this game when a massive war machine robot decides to use a bow and arrow to lay waste to his foes. Nothing wrong at all...

TheLegendOfAra
12-22-2013, 05:27 PM
So its like the Warforged version. With Bladeforged. And the key component is Pinion and Manyshot.

Nothing wrong with this game when a massive war machine robot decides to use a bow and arrow to lay waste to his foes. Nothing wrong at all...

I'm pretty sure the key component is Cetus, more than anything.
Well, that and a giant sword.

And you're right, there is nothing wrong with that at all.

DanteEnFuego
12-22-2013, 05:48 PM
So its like the Warforged version. With Bladeforged. And the key component is Pinion and Manyshot.

Nothing wrong with this game when a massive war machine robot decides to use a bow and arrow to lay waste to his foes. Nothing wrong at all...

Nothing at all, until he tries to wear the Robe he listed above... ;-)

id id swap for a docent.

Nightmanis
12-22-2013, 06:35 PM
Cetus: Completionist Bladeforged 12 Fighter/6 Monk/2 Paladin

Note: This build is designed for advanced players who desire effectiveness in epic elite content. It is also centered around +5 tomes for the purposes of meeting stat requirements.


Class Progression: First, Second, and Sixth monk levels are the only important ones, since they receive feats at those levels.

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 12, Constitution: 14, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 8, Charisma: 15

Feats

12 Fighter = 7 Feats. Bladeforged = 7 feats. 6 Monk = 3 Feats. Epic feats = 3 Feats. 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 20 Feats.

Add 2 Destiny feats + Paladin Deity + Monk light/dark path = 24 total feat decisions.

Ranged:

1. Improved Critical: Ranged
2. Weapon Focus: Ranged
3. Bow Strength
4. Manyshot (much later when +5 Dex tome kicks in)
5. Point Blank Shot
6. Rapid Shot
7. Zen Archery (should be taken as level 6 monk class feat when +5 Wisdom kicks in at level 19 for the 13 wisdom requirement)

Melee:

8. Power Attack (Should be taken as Level 1 or 2 Monk class feat)
9. Two Handed Fighting (Should be taken as Level 1 or 2 Monk Class feat)
10. Improved Two Handed Fighting
11. Stunning Blow
12. Weapon focus: Slashing
13. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Cleave
17. Great Cleave
18. Overwhelming Critical


Other:

20. Completionist
21. Master of Forms (Adept is granted at level 6 monk, so this will occupy an epic feat slot)
22. Paladin: Follower of the Silver Flame
23. Monk: Light Path
24. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
25. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

Skills: All Levelup skills into maxing out UMD and Repair (leftovers into whatever you want, perhaps balance).

Twists:

Bane Of Undeath (if you plan to shrine, if not then pin)
Dance of Flowers
Sense Weakness / Pin

Enhancements:

Kensei:

-All Cores for Power Surge
-Extra Action boost 3
-Haste Boost 3
-One with the blade (this means all weapon specializations, alacrity, tier 1 meditation, deadly whatever (this ability is not used in this build), and shattering whatever (this ability is also not used in this build)).
-Tactics 2
-Strength 1 + 2

35 AP

Ninja Spy:

-All cores toward Shadow Veil
-Two tiers of Sneak Attack Training
-Acrobatic 2
-Agility 2
-Fists of Iron
-Ninja Poison

15 AP

Bladeforged:

-Improved Fortification Core
-Constitution Core
-Mechanist Tier 1
-Communion of Scribing 3
-Warforged Tactics +3
-Fearsome Presence
-Improved Power Attack 3
-Power of The Forge
-Weapon Attachment*

23 AP

*: This enhancement's usefulness is debatable. I use it for 33% of the time, since casting a tensers scroll is more useful than the attachment - the dps is about the same from the +4 str, but it also adds other bonuses. So, tensers > weapon attachment. However, during the minute and change that tensers is active, I use both of them together, then refresh the attachment in the remaining 1 minute and 50 seconds or something. If you don't like this enhancement, then drop 1 point of agility from the monk tree and use the 2 points on the third tier of sneak attack training from ninja spy OR the third tactics point from fighter - whatever you like. I might still do this, haven't decided on weapon attachment fully yet.

Knight of the Chalice

-First Core
-Extra turning 3
-Extra smite 1 (dump point)
-Divine Might 1**

7 AP

**: Everytime I use my power surge, damage boost, haste boost, I automatically hit divine might. When I had the second tier version of it, I ended up hitting it like every thirty seconds anyway just as part of the boost rotation. So, tier 2 is not needed - but I have a razr naga mouse that accommodates efficient boosting, if you don't then this decision maybe problematic - it works very well for me however.

Gear:

Necklace: EE Stolen Necklace w/ Insightful +2 Charisma Slotted, Charisma +10, and Accuracy +9 (This is useful for manyshotting, sometimes the bow grazes)
Helmet:: EE Black Dragon Helmet w/ +3 Insightful Constitution Yellow Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood Green Slot: Good Luck +2
Goggles: Deadly X of Resistance +10
Armor: Flawless Black Dragonscale robe: Slotted PRR +16
Bracer: Skirmisher's Bracers: Dexterity +9 and Doublestrike +8%
Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness: Constitution +8, Combat Mastery +5, Seeker +12
Ring 2: Seal of Dun'Robar: Stunning +10
Boots: EE Goatskin Boots w/ Fortification +115, Yellow Slot: +2 insightful Dexterity, Green Slot: Wisdom +7
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves: Sneak Attack +5, Exceptional Sneak attack +3, Improved Deception, Bluff +20, Yellow Slot: Vitality +20
Belt: Ogre Power +10 Belt of False life 45
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf: Exceptional Seeker +5, Attack bonus +4
Trinket: Litany of the Dead

Weapon: Epic Sword of Shadows: Red Slot: Repair Spellpower + 138 Augment, Colorless: Insightful +2 Wisdom

Still Looking to get:

Deadly XI of Resistance 10 Goggles
Ogre Power 11 of False Life 50 Belt

Few metagame tricks:

1. Upon zoning into quest, wear Verik's necklace instead of EE Stolen necklace, Replace Adamantine cloak of the wolf with Charisma 10 cloak with slot, place +2 Insightful 2 Cha in slot (I have a cloak like this with accuracy 11 on the tail end)

Once 2 boosts are used, switch for Cloak of the wolf + Stolen Necklace.

2. When Manyshotting, replace Litany with a prowess trinket for Artifact bonus to damage.

3. Before shrining, use power surge. The extra added charisma from the action surge enhancement (human) generates 2 extra divine mights after shrining is complete.

4. Against assassins, it is useful to pick up a Fortification 125% of Seeker +10 Ring. Substitute that in for consuming darkness, wear Adamantine Cloak of the Bear for Combat Mastery +6 in cloak slot.




End Stats fully buffed with yugo pots/rage/Fire finisher in EARTH STANCE
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/ScreenShot00123_zpsa2389fbd.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/ScreenShot00123_zpsa2389fbd.jpg.html)

170% fort (Not in this particular screenshot because I'm not wearing the fort 115% goatskins - but the 155% I have in the screenshot with the extra 15% will total 170% - I also have 1 Bladeforged Past life)

21% Doublestrike (Currently with 1 Martial epic past life)
71 Reflex (divine brace +1 past life atm)
77 Fortitude (divine brace +1 past life atm)
59 Will (divine brace +1 past life atm)
1030 Hitpoints (without greensteel)
41 PRR (divine past life +3 atm)
80 Strength

Stunning Blow DC:

35 Modifier + Stunning +10 + Combat Mastery +5 + LD +6 + 10 Base + 3 Past lives + 5 Enhancement + 2 fearsome presence = 76 in full DPS mode (77 if weapon attachment doesn't work out, and the points are spent on the third fighter tactic)

Adamantine Cloak of Bear = 78

Someone helps with Primal scream = 79

Once Strength +11 Belt is acquired, potentially an 80 with a slight ED point accommodation for an additional STR.

Give me your belt. I need it. You'll be ok without it.

TheLegendOfAra
12-22-2013, 08:37 PM
Give me your belt. I need it. You'll be ok without it.
Ignore him. I'm still wearing a MinII belt that I messed up. =/

Takllin
12-22-2013, 09:05 PM
I'm pretty sure the key component is Cetus, more than anything.
Well, that and a giant sword.

And you're right, there is nothing wrong with that at all.

In most cases it isn't the build but the player, but in this case it is the build. Centered Kensai's, with Bladeforged is ridiculously OP and never should have made it live. They put every other melee build to shame, I don't think there has ever been such a disparity between melee DPS as there is currently.

I don't mean to take anything away from you Cetus, but Centered Kensai + Bladeforged is ridiculous.

Cetus
12-22-2013, 09:34 PM
Nothing at all, until he tries to wear the Robe he listed above... ;-)

id id swap for a docent.

og

fixed

Cetus
12-23-2013, 12:04 AM
In most cases it isn't the build but the player, but in this case it is the build. Centered Kensai's, with Bladeforged is ridiculously OP and never should have made it live. They put every other melee build to shame, I don't think there has ever been such a disparity between melee DPS as there is currently.

I don't mean to take anything away from you Cetus, but Centered Kensai + Bladeforged is ridiculous.

Die Noob - its awesome

Choopak
12-23-2013, 03:29 AM
You post it!!! yesss
if i were to drop range:
1) what would be change in enhancements?
2) feats?
I know manyshot is crazy DPS but i feel dirty each time i use a bow on a fighter... I would like to tweak it for max melee DPS

Note: on your feat selection, you wrote level 18: overwhelming critical... i taught you can only take this a epic, no?

Takllin
12-23-2013, 04:24 AM
Die Noob - its awesome

Haha I know that, and you know I'm not taking anything away from you. But the combination is ridiculous. Its so uber I had to TR out of it ;)

Nightmanis
12-23-2013, 04:40 AM
You post it!!! yesss
if i were to drop range:
1) what would be change in enhancements?
2) feats?
I know manyshot is crazy DPS but i feel dirty each time i use a bow on a fighter... I would like to tweak it for max melee DPS

Note: on your feat selection, you wrote level 18: overwhelming critical... i taught you can only take this a epic, no?

Enhancement wise I don't think much would change.

Feat wise you could become a bit more tactical. Take GTHF, maybe get improved sunder, possibly spec for improved trip since you absolutely don't need zen archery, power critical for that tiny bit extra, maybe QuickDraw for better boosting. Basically the old school way to make a fighter.

As for the OC thing, his feats don't seem to be in any order so that's just him keeping track of them all, not where they go.

Nightmanis
12-23-2013, 04:43 AM
I don't think there has ever been such a disparity between melee DPS as there is currently.

Idk, my rogue still feels pretty uber when I run with the centered toasters.

lyrecono
12-23-2013, 05:36 AM
silly question maybe, but do you loose weapon attachment when switching weapons?
If so, switching to bow, scroll usage etc would make this enhancement a tad bit use impaired

As for the rest, awesome job Cetus!


@Choopak
He's numbering the amount of feats used, it has nothing to do with the lv where he takes it

Cetus
12-23-2013, 10:43 AM
silly question maybe, but do you loose weapon attachment when switching weapons?
If so, switching to bow, scroll usage etc would make this enhancement a tad bit use impaired

As for the rest, awesome job Cetus!


@Choopak
He's numbering the amount of feats used, it has nothing to do with the lv where he takes it

Ehh..yea - tensers scrolls + manyshot screw with weapon attachment, I'm still playing with it, but meh I'll probably drop it at some point. For that minute and change when I have it going with tensers, I kinda enjoy it.

Pilgrim1
12-23-2013, 11:54 AM
You put a lot of AP into making your Esos into a 13-20/x3 weapon and centered. Why didn't you do this same build but using a Sireth with the monk capstone to make it a 13-20x3 weapon? I don't know the weapon damage comparison but it looks like Sireth would do a bit more dmg and you also have quick strike.

Choopak
12-23-2013, 12:21 PM
Enhancement wise I don't think much would change.

Feat wise you could become a bit more tactical. Take GTHF, maybe get improved sunder, possibly spec for improved trip since you absolutely don't need zen archery, power critical for that tiny bit extra, maybe QuickDraw for better boosting. Basically the old school way to make a fighter.

As for the OC thing, his feats don't seem to be in any order so that's just him keeping track of them all, not where they go.

These are all good suggestions Nightmanis...
About OC... you're right i misread, lol... dho!

Takllin
12-23-2013, 01:53 PM
You put a lot of AP into making your Esos into a 13-20/x3 weapon and centered. Why didn't you do this same build but using a Sireth with the monk capstone to make it a 13-20x3 weapon? I don't know the weapon damage comparison but it looks like Sireth would do a bit more dmg and you also have quick strike.
There is a bug with qstaffs that you don't get glancing blows with cleave.

You also can't do the same build with monk capstone...and the only good staff builds have monk/rogue in them for the stance and 15% alacrity from first tier Thief Acrobat.

Choopak
12-23-2013, 03:21 PM
Ho great Cetus, i humbly ask for your guidance in my quest to perfection.
I took the first step: I am now a Bladeforged, reborn into the perfect race.
Now, thanks to my Lord Cetus, my path is clear, fighter12/ monk6/ pally2.
But, alas, i'm only a lowly follower with 2 past life (pally and fighter), therefore missing the Master's gear/ and completionist.
So here comes the hard choices: drop the range option... please Master don't see it as blasphemy, i'm aware of the power of manyshot, but i'm flawed...
That leave me with 8 feats to choose from... Share your wisdom i beg... so i shall redeem myself...

The Disciple

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 10 (no need to put more since no manyshot), Constitution: 16, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 6 (no more zen archery), Charisma: 16
Feats

12 Fighter = 7 Feats. Bladeforged = 7 feats. 6 Monk = 3 Feats. Epic feats = 3 Feats. 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 20 Feats.
Add 2 Destiny feats + Paladin Deity + Monk light/dark path = 24 total feat decisions.

Ranged: no need anymore...

1. Toughness (taken as Level 2 Monk Class feat)
2. Force of Personality
3. Master of Form (i took monk levels earlier in class progression)
4. Grand Master of Form
5. Sap
6. GTHF
7. Magical Training

Melee:

8. Power Attack (taken as Level 1 Monk class feat)
9. Two Handed Fighting (taken as Level 6 Monk Class feat)
10. Improved Two Handed Fighting
11. Stunning Blow
12. Weapon focus: Slashing
13. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Cleave
17. Great Cleave
18. Overwhelming Critical

Other:

20. Epic Toughness
21. Epic Damage Reduction
22. Paladin: Follower of the Silver Flame
23. Monk: Light Path
24. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
25. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

Being inferior, i changed the enhancements and put 11 AP into StD tree to get stance and +15PRR (ending with +25PRR) while i loose Sting of the Ninja i feel the extra PRR (and +3 saves) are a nice trade off.

I praise the Mighty Cetus to forgive my heresy and bless me with is wisdom...

Nightmanis
12-23-2013, 04:35 PM
Ho great Cetus, i humbly ask for your guidance in my quest to perfection.
I took the first step: I am now a Bladeforged, reborn into the perfect race.
Now, thanks to my Lord Cetus, my path is clear, fighter12/ monk6/ pally2.
But, alas, i'm only a lowly follower with 2 past life (pally and fighter), therefore missing the Master's gear/ and completionist.
So here comes the hard choices: drop the range option... please Master don't see it as blasphemy, i'm aware of the power of manyshot, but i'm flawed...
That leave me with 8 feats to choose from... Share your wisdom i beg... so i shall redeem myself...

The Disciple

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 10 (no need to put more since no manyshot), Constitution: 16, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 6 (no more zen archery), Charisma: 16
Feats

12 Fighter = 7 Feats. Bladeforged = 7 feats. 6 Monk = 3 Feats. Epic feats = 3 Feats. 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 20 Feats.
Add 2 Destiny feats + Paladin Deity + Monk light/dark path = 24 total feat decisions.

Ranged: no need anymore...

1. Toughness (taken as Level 2 Monk Class feat)
2. Force of Personality
3. Master of Form (i took monk levels earlier in class progression)
4. Grand Master of Form
5. Sap
6. GTHF
7. Magical Training

Melee:

8. Power Attack (taken as Level 1 Monk class feat)
9. Two Handed Fighting (taken as Level 6 Monk Class feat)
10. Improved Two Handed Fighting
11. Stunning Blow
12. Weapon focus: Slashing
13. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Cleave
17. Great Cleave
18. Overwhelming Critical

Other:

20. Epic Toughness
21. Epic Damage Reduction
22. Paladin: Follower of the Silver Flame
23. Monk: Light Path
24. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
25. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

Being inferior, i changed the enhancements and put 11 AP into StD tree to get stance and +15PRR (ending with +25PRR) while i loose Sting of the Ninja i feel the extra PRR (and +3 saves) are a nice trade off.

I praise the Mighty Cetus to forgive my heresy and bless me with is wisdom...

Stance doesn't work without a shield. Now go to the church and confess your sins.

Choopak
12-23-2013, 05:10 PM
Stance doesn't work without a shield. Now go to the church and confess your sins.

Infidel!!!

Yes they do, and stack with earth stance...

Nightmanis
12-23-2013, 06:42 PM
Infidel!!!

Yes they do, and stack with earth stance...

orly now. When did that become a thing?

Choopak
12-23-2013, 07:38 PM
orly now. When did that become a thing?

They higher stance require a shield, but not the entry ones... hehe enjoy the double wammy!

Takllin
12-23-2013, 08:39 PM
orly now. When did that become a thing?

Yeah there are two sets of stances. One which gives 25 PRR, 3 saves and 75 threat you can use with anything. The bonus to STR CON and HP stance needs sword and board.

Relenthe
12-23-2013, 09:02 PM
Do you regularly scroll tensers on this build? I would imagine twice the time between reconstructs would not be worth the buff.

Cetus
12-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Ho great Cetus, i humbly ask for your guidance in my quest to perfection.
I took the first step: I am now a Bladeforged, reborn into the perfect race.
Now, thanks to my Lord Cetus, my path is clear, fighter12/ monk6/ pally2.
But, alas, i'm only a lowly follower with 2 past life (pally and fighter), therefore missing the Master's gear/ and completionist.
So here comes the hard choices: drop the range option... please Master don't see it as blasphemy, i'm aware of the power of manyshot, but i'm flawed...
That leave me with 8 feats to choose from... Share your wisdom i beg... so i shall redeem myself...

The Disciple

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 10 (no need to put more since no manyshot), Constitution: 16, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 6 (no more zen archery), Charisma: 16
Feats

12 Fighter = 7 Feats. Bladeforged = 7 feats. 6 Monk = 3 Feats. Epic feats = 3 Feats. 7 + 7 + 3 + 3 = 20 Feats.
Add 2 Destiny feats + Paladin Deity + Monk light/dark path = 24 total feat decisions.

Ranged: no need anymore...

1. Toughness (taken as Level 2 Monk Class feat)
2. Force of Personality
3. Master of Form (i took monk levels earlier in class progression)
4. Grand Master of Form
5. Sap
6. GTHF
7. Magical Training

Melee:

8. Power Attack (taken as Level 1 Monk class feat)
9. Two Handed Fighting (taken as Level 6 Monk Class feat)
10. Improved Two Handed Fighting
11. Stunning Blow
12. Weapon focus: Slashing
13. Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing
14. Weapon Specialization: Slashing
15. Improved Critical: Slashing
16. Cleave
17. Great Cleave
18. Overwhelming Critical

Other:

20. Epic Toughness
21. Epic Damage Reduction
22. Paladin: Follower of the Silver Flame
23. Monk: Light Path
24. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
25. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting - 5% doublestrike for main hand weapon

Being inferior, i changed the enhancements and put 11 AP into StD tree to get stance and +15PRR (ending with +25PRR) while i loose Sting of the Ninja i feel the extra PRR (and +3 saves) are a nice trade off.

I praise the Mighty Cetus to forgive my heresy and bless me with is wisdom...

Well, if you drop ranged - then just pick up more DPS feats for melee. You said that you have a pally past life, so that's an option. Greater Weapon spec for +2 damage, GTHF, power critical, even precision for high fortification targets, improved sunder helps your stunning blow DC.

I wouldn't take grandmaster of forms, its kinda meh for a feat slot. Instead, try to fit in epic reflexes if you can so that you never fail your reflex save.

Now, stop molesting that 11 month old.

Takllin
12-23-2013, 09:15 PM
Do you regularly scroll tensers on this build? I would imagine twice the time between reconstructs would not be worth the buff.

Tensers does not effect the CD of Bladeforged Reconstruct.

JOTMON
12-23-2013, 10:05 PM
Still Looking to get:
Ogre Power 11 of False Life 50 Belt




Not a belt but still pretty...

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r671/JOTMON/ScreenShot00406_zps1e3143f0.jpg~original

Choopak
12-23-2013, 10:32 PM
Well, if you drop ranged - then just pick up more DPS feats for melee. You said that you have a pally past life, so that's an option. Greater Weapon spec for +2 damage, GTHF, power critical, even precision for high fortification targets, improved sunder helps your stunning blow DC.

I wouldn't take grandmaster of forms, its kinda meh for a feat slot. Instead, try to fit in epic reflexes if you can so that you never fail your reflex save.

Now, stop molesting that 11 month old.

Thanks for input, i did pick up some DPS feat and a couple utilities... But i'll take a closer look (i overlooked GWspec, and some others)
Good call on grand master of form, will pick Epic reflexes.

Cetus
12-24-2013, 01:02 AM
Not a belt but still pretty...

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r671/JOTMON/ScreenShot00406_zps1e3143f0.jpg~original

ok, that's nice

mikarddo
12-24-2013, 04:24 AM
Out of ignorance. Do you find the 375ish SP enough to fuel the reconstruct SLA?

Cetus
12-24-2013, 11:00 AM
Out of ignorance. Do you find the 375ish SP enough to fuel the reconstruct SLA?

Yup, I also carry a bauble and its fine. Occasionally I run into pots if there are sticky situations, but its a tiny price to pay throughout the long run.

Wizza
12-24-2013, 12:03 PM
Yup, I also carry a bauble and its fine. I run into pots because I always die, but its a tiny price to pay throughout the long run.

ftfy

DanteEnFuego
12-24-2013, 04:33 PM
og

fixed

Glad to help. Any chance you can share a level/class progression? My main is a completionist x2 Arti, x3 Wiz/FvS/Sorc. Looking for some melee fun. If no eSoS, second choice?

Big props for the great build...

redspecter23
12-24-2013, 04:56 PM
Glad to help. Any chance you can share a level/class progression? My main is a completionist x2 Arti, x3 Wiz/FvS/Sorc. Looking for some melee fun. If no eSoS, second choice?

Big props for the great build...

If no ESoS, give some consideration to Sireth and tier 5 Henshin Mystic. It's not as powerful as ESoS but it at least comes reasonably close with 13-20 crits at x3 multiplier as a base. Having a 25% doublestrike short term buff and level draining attacks adds some utility to make up for the lack of direct dps. Sireth instead of ESoS opens up many other options for base class over fighter as well as it's centered normally.

Cetus
12-24-2013, 11:30 PM
If no ESoS, give some consideration to Sireth and tier 5 Henshin Mystic. It's not as powerful as ESoS but it at least comes reasonably close with 13-20 crits at x3 multiplier as a base. Having a 25% doublestrike short term buff and level draining attacks adds some utility to make up for the lack of direct dps. Sireth instead of ESoS opens up many other options for base class over fighter as well as it's centered normally.

I tried sireth a while ago with the original human version - it does more dps on paper, but when I played with it I found it very difficult to be efficient. That extra doublestrike attack is unreliable because it doesn't proc if you don't connect or miss a mob. I just didn't find it doing more dps in practice, too much time trying to do it rather than just doing it.

Maybe someone else will find more utility out of it, but the esos still reigns supreme for now for me.

redspecter23
12-24-2013, 11:48 PM
I tried sireth a while ago with the original human version - it does more dps on paper, but when I played with it I found it very difficult to be efficient. That extra doublestrike attack is unreliable because it doesn't proc if you don't connect or miss a mob. I just didn't find it doing more dps in practice, too much time trying to do it rather than just doing it.

Maybe someone else will find more utility out of it, but the esos still reigns supreme for now for me.

Agreed, the ESoS is better and the build is built around having it. I was just responding to someone looking for an alternative. I'm guessing he doesn't have it yet. In that situation, I'm thinking Sireth to be a better alternative than Cleaver, but I haven't crunched the numbers. If I remember correctly, there was some issue with quarterstaves not proccing glancing blows on cleaves, reducing overall dps compared to traditional two handers. This might be the cause for a dps loss but would be dependent on feats and playstyle.

I'm playing a ranger variant right now 12ranger/6monk/2paladin which is performing well with the Sireth setup. ESoS wouldn't work with that particular centered build at all anyway... also I still need to get one ;)

Sokól
12-25-2013, 02:30 PM
I tried sireth a while ago with the original human version - it does more dps on paper, but when I played with it I found it very difficult to be efficient. That extra doublestrike attack is unreliable because it doesn't proc if you don't connect or miss a mob. I just didn't find it doing more dps in practice, too much time trying to do it rather than just doing it.

Maybe someone else will find more utility out of it, but the esos still reigns supreme for now for me.

This was my conclution also and the cleaver is just slow...

Choopak
12-25-2013, 03:05 PM
Well, if you drop ranged - then just pick up more DPS feats for melee. You said that you have a pally past life, so that's an option. Greater Weapon spec for +2 damage, GTHF, power critical, even precision for high fortification targets, improved sunder helps your stunning blow DC...

Was wandering... is Zen Archery that useful? i mean range is a secondary option (use mostly for burst) so not being centered should not be a big deal?
I ask cause you, almost, convince me to take range option... but since feats are tight, and i would love to fit in: Toughness and Epic Toughness (over a 100HP more) gotta make a choice.
So 2 feats to "chop": not a completionist so that's 1... still missing 1... and was thinking Zen Archery... unless you have a better option to propose.

Cetus
12-25-2013, 05:01 PM
Was wandering... is Zen Archery that useful? i mean range is a secondary option (use mostly for burst) so not being centered should not be a big deal?
I ask cause you, almost, convince me to take range option... but since feats are tight, and i would love to fit in: Toughness and Epic Toughness (over a 100HP more) gotta make a choice.
So 2 feats to "chop": not a completionist so that's 1... still missing 1... and was thinking Zen Archery... unless you have a better option to propose.

Lol, its a major pain to re-enter stance every time you wanna take your bow out. besides, extra multiplier on 19/20 with ranged is pretty awesome too. Why the hell do you want e toughness? I find it kinda wasteful - you won't even meet the con requirement with a 14 base anyway.

Choopak
12-25-2013, 06:46 PM
Lol, its a major pain to re-enter stance every time you wanna take your bow out. besides, extra multiplier on 19/20 with ranged is pretty awesome too. Why the hell do you want e toughness? I find it kinda wasteful - you won't even meet the con requirement with a 14 base anyway.

Ho ****!!! Didn't figure the earth stance extra +1 crit multiplier (and +1 crit range) hummm changes a lot!
Well i taught, that if i drop zen archery, i could start with only 6 WIS, and put extra 2 points in CON (pumping it to 16 and within reach)
Never play EH, or EE so dunno if a melee toon under 1K HP would be survivable enough, and since i don't have all the gear to hit 1K HP, toughness and epic toughness was kind of an easy fix.
Thanks

Arianka
12-26-2013, 01:30 PM
Maybe someone else will find more utility out of it, but the esos still reigns supreme for now for me.The dr braking ability of the epic antique greataxe still makes it a very good alternative. a bit easier to get to as compared to esos.

Takllin
12-26-2013, 01:51 PM
The dr braking ability of the epic antique greataxe still makes it a very good alternative. a bit easier to get to as compared to esos.
I'm not sure if there is anything at end game right now that you need to break DR for. Cleaver is also much better than the Epic Antique and with the Raiders Boxes everyone should be able to get one.

Arianka
12-26-2013, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure if there is anything at end game right now that you need to break DR for. Cleaver is also much better than the Epic Antique and with the Raiders Boxes everyone should be able to get one.
people making this toon as afirst life toon will not have a raiders box.

also, when we return to amrath or some other plane next year, dr braking will be more imprtant then ever.

Grizzt14
12-26-2013, 02:03 PM
Note: This build is designed for advanced players who desire effectiveness in epic elite content. It is also centered around +5 tomes for the purposes of meeting stat requirements.


people making this toon as afirst life toon will not have a raiders box.

also, when we return to amrath or some other plane next year, dr braking will be more imprtant then ever.

The build is clearly not intended for a player who wouldn't have access to a raiders box or Caught in the Web (or a first life character considering it assumes +5 stat tomes and potentially a completionist). The plans for next year announced in the Holiday Producer's Letter also would not seem to suggest traveling to another plane (Haunted Halls of Eveningstar + 2 raids, Epic 3BC and Anauroch are planned).

Arianka
12-26-2013, 02:09 PM
The build is clearly not intended for a player who wouldn't have access to a raiders box or Caught in the Web (or a first life character considering it assumes +5 stat tomes and potentially a completionist). The plans for next year announced in the Holiday Producer's Letter also would not seem to suggest traveling to another plane (Haunted Halls of Eveningstar + 2 raids, Epic 3BC and Anauroch are planned).
ok, i am a long time player but only have a few toons that already like. i see this build and i like it but i don't want to tr any of my other toons so what is my choice? yeah, make a new toon. lot's of people are in my exact same position.

also, if you really beleive we will never need to able to brake dr again at end game, i got a bridge to sell you in new york.

Takllin
12-26-2013, 02:16 PM
people making this toon as afirst life toon will not have a raiders box.

also, when we return to amrath or some other plane next year, dr braking will be more imprtant then ever.

They probably also won't have an Epic Antique then would they? And Cleaver is also much easier to get.

They have not released anything saying they are returning to Amrath or other planes in the producer letter for next year so I'm not sure where your pulling that from...


also, if you really beleive we will never need to able to brake dr again at end game, i got a bridge to sell you in new york.
Clearly haven;t been around long enough...they always undersell never oversell...and there is a difference between never need to break DR and not need to for the next year in DDO...

Cetus
12-26-2013, 04:04 PM
ok, i am a long time player but only have a few toons that already like. i see this build and i like it but i don't want to tr any of my other toons so what is my choice? yeah, make a new toon. lot's of people are in my exact same position.

also, if you really beleive we will never need to able to brake dr again at end game, i got a bridge to sell you in new york.

When the need to break DR arises, then I will update this thread. In the meantime, it is built in order to excel at current content.

Crann
12-26-2013, 04:48 PM
ok, i am a long time player but only have a few toons that already like. i see this build and i like it but i don't want to tr any of my other toons so what is my choice? yeah, make a new toon. lot's of people are in my exact same position.

also, if you really beleive we will never need to able to brake dr again at end game, i got a bridge to sell you in new york.

Never is a long time.

I never thought a toaster with 2 Pally levels would be better DPS AND more survivable that my 18Ranger/1Monk/1Rogue and his metalline of Pure Good Khopeshes.

The point is, you need to learn to be adaptable for the game in its current state. The only consistency I've encountered in DDO is change.

By the time new raids are released that require DR breaking, there is a very good chance that this build won't be the king of the hill anymore. I am not waiting until then to play. When that time comes, I'll TR, and add another PL:Fighter.

In the meantime I have been running this build, and have benefitted a great deal from these discusions, especially earlier ones in the fleshy version's thread.

Arianka
12-26-2013, 05:22 PM
When the need to break DR arises, then I will update this thread. In the meantime, it is built in order to excel at current content.

did not critisize your build. all i said was the epic antique greataxe was a good alternetive to the esos.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter?p=5210431&viewfull=1#post5210431

Arianka
12-26-2013, 05:24 PM
They probably also won't have an Epic Antique then would they?
re-read my post. i said epic antique greataxe is easier to get then an esos.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter?p=5210431&viewfull=1#post5210431


And Cleaver is also much easier to get.

it is?? i haven't seen an lfm up for citw in a long time. u can blame raiders boxes for that.

Takllin
12-26-2013, 05:32 PM
re-read my post. i said epic antique greataxe is easier to get then an esos.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter?p=5210431&viewfull=1#post5210431



it is?? i haven't seen an lfm up for citw in a long time. u can blame raiders boxes for that.
I read your post fine thank you. But Cleaver is far better than Epic Antique and much easier to get.

You know what people should do when they don't see an LFM up for something they want to run? Make one.

Takllin
12-26-2013, 05:34 PM
Cetus how are you getting 41 PRR?

Arianka
12-26-2013, 06:45 PM
But Cleaver is far better than Epic Antique
its better but not far better.


and much easier to get.
much easier??? disagree heavilly!



You know what people should do when they don't see an LFM up for something they want to run? Make one.
what good is putting up a lfm if no one else wants to run the quest??? blame raiders boxes for that to.

Arianka
12-26-2013, 06:47 PM
Cetus how are you getting 41 PRR?

prolly 25 prr from defender stance and 16 prr from augment.

Cetus
12-26-2013, 06:50 PM
Cetus how are you getting 41 PRR?

12 Earth Stance + 16 Augment + 3 Past Life + 10 Power of the Forge

Takllin
12-26-2013, 06:56 PM
12 Earth Stance + 16 Augment + 3 Past Life + 10 Power of the Forge

Ah okay I missed the boost in your buff bar.

Cetus
12-26-2013, 07:19 PM
Ah okay I missed the boost in your buff bar.

Yea, thats fully buffed

Hobgoblin
12-26-2013, 07:26 PM
How is weapon augmentation working for you? with switching weapons and scrolls, is it a pain?

Choopak
12-26-2013, 08:02 PM
Cetus how are you getting 41 PRR?

I wanted a little more PRR, so i took StD stance (and enhancements) and now i'm sitting at a nice 37 PRR or 47 with power of the fire boost.
Add a PRR augment 16 and you have a confortable 53/ 63 with boost... not bad for an armorless toon.

Cetus
12-27-2013, 09:33 PM
How is weapon augmentation working for you? with switching weapons and scrolls, is it a pain?

Yea it is a pain, but for the minute and change that its active simultaneously with tensers, its not bad. Still toying with it, I'll probably make up my mind after I'm done with epic TR's - so its up to you folks to gauge whether or not you like it. I provided an alternative AP expenditure in the OP.

I have a few things to clarify here as I answer my PM's and inspect the comments in both threads.

A) I've received a few PM's and saw several posts in both of my threads about leveling progression. I deliberately did not provide a leveling progression for 3 reasons:

1. I don't consider leveling difficult enough to justify the construction of an optimal leveling order.

2. There are several equally efficient leveling plans, all of which I don't care to write out simply due to time.

3. The purpose of this thread is to outline the end result and how it performs in the games most challenging content via video's (eventually).

B) Many people have also expressed interest in a version of this build that doesn't include a ranged component. I'll work on editing the OP to provide a feat layout for that build. Good suggestion.

C) I'd like to also clear up the feat layout. Again, I deliberately did not assign the feats to specific feat slots except for the three monk ones, because those are the only ones that matter in terms of order. The reason for this decision is similar to reason 2 in A. There are different combinations of feat acquisition that all arrive at the same end product, the end product is all I care to post. If you guys really care I can provide my feat progression.

Andoris
12-28-2013, 11:12 AM
B) Many people have also expressed interest in a version of this build that doesn't include a ranged component. I'll work on editing the OP to provide a feat layout for that build. Good suggestion.



This build has been updated based on play testing --- Please see the updated build in Post #142 (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433254-Cetus-The-Supreme-Bladeforged-Fighter?p=5230425&viewfull=1#post5230425)

I am about to TR into a Melee only version of this myself. The build is not tested and there will likely be changes as I level but here is my current plan. Reflex save is a bit low, fortification might be more than is needed -- if I dropped that down to 165% I could likely slot in 2 more points of str. Suggestions and comments welcome.

Class Split: 12 Fighter / 6 Monk / 2 Pally
Race: Bladeforged

Abilities:
Str: 48/76-- (18 base + 5 tome +7 lvl +1 GoTIB +10 Item +1 Profane +2 ED +2 ship +2 Yugo / + 2 rage +8 Psionic +4 tenser +14 Divine Might)
Dex: 26 / 30 -- (8 base + 5 tome + 9 item +1 GoTIB +2 insight +1 profane +2 ship -2 stance / + 4 tenser)
Con: 40/46 -- (16 base +5 tome +1 enh +8 item +3 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +3 Stance +2 Ship / +2 rage +4 tenser)
Int: 17 -- (9 base +4 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Wis: 15 -- (6 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Cha: 38 -- (17 base +5 tome +10 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)

Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing (1), Stunning Blow (3), Great Cleave (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Greater Two-handed fighting (12), Master of Forms (15), Force of personality (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Epic Toughness (24), Epic PRR (27),
Fighter: Cleave (3), Toughness (4), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (6), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (9), Greater WF: Slashing (11), Improved Sunder (14), Power Critical (20)
Monk: Power Attack (2), Two-handed Fighting (7), Fists of Light (15), Deflect Arrow (19)
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (26), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (28)

Enhancements:
Paladin: Knight of the Chalice (9 ap): Hunter of the Dead (1), Extra Turning III (3), Extra Smite (1), Divine Might II (4),

Fighter: Kensai (33ap): Kensai Focus (1), Weapon Specialization IV (8), Action Boost: Haste III (3), Spiritual Bond (1), Weapon Meditation (2), Shattering Strike (1), Deadly Strike (1), Strike with No Thought (1), Keen Edge (1), One with the Blade (1), Extra Action Boost III (6), Tactics (6), Power Surge (1)

Monk Ninja Spy (13 ap): Ninja Training (2), Shadow Veil (1), Sneak Attack Training I (2), Acrobatic II (2), Elemental Ki: Fist of Iron (2), Agility II (2), Sting of the Ninja (2)

BladeForged (25 ap): Improved Fortification II (2), Repair Systems II (4), WF: Tactics III (3), Fearsome Presence (1), Power of the Forge (1), Communion of Scribing III (6), Improved Power Attack III (6), Con I (2)

Core Stats:
Fortification: 190%
HP: 913 Standing / 997 Boosted / 1045 Yugo – (188 levels +80 epic +406/532 con +25 heroic +10 draconic +45 False Life +15 auto grants +78 feats +50 LD / +48 Yugo)
Double Strike: 27% (8% Item + 5% Perfect TWF + 3% Draconic Ferocity +2% Kensi +9 Epic PL)
Stunning Blow DC: 75 (77) – (10 base + 34 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +3 Kensi +3 WF +6 tactics +3 Ftr PL +2 Shaken /+2 sundering)
Repair Spell Power: 209 (138 Devotion + 30 Implement +38 Repair skill)
Reconstruct SLA: 510 HP
Dodge: 15% - (8% Item + 6% Flurry + 2% Acrobatic)
PRR: 38 (12 Master Earth + 16 Augment +10 Epic PRR)
Miss Chance: 57%/73% = 20/50% Concealment (Blur/Displacement) * 25% Incorporeal * 27% dodge (Blitzing)
UMD: 42 -- (5 ranks +8 epic +14 Cha +1 tome +3 competence +2 luck +4 morale +1 profane +1 ship)

Saves:
Fort: 70/78 – (16 base +4 epic +19 con +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 Fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Ref: 57/65 – (9 base +4 epic +12 dex +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Agility +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Will: 57/63 – (9 base +4 epic +14 Cha +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)

Epic Destiny – Legendary Dreadnought:
Legendary Tactics (3), Extra Action Boost (3), Momentum Swing (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Lay Waste (2), Attack Boost (1), Strength II (4), Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Critical (2), Masters Blitz (2)
Twists: Fury: Sense Weakness (4), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)

painkiller3
12-29-2013, 09:00 AM
...
Bracer: Skirmisher's Bracers: Dexterity +9 and Doublestrike +8%
...


does doublestrike drop in lootgen anymore (besides armor)? I realize the skirmisher's bracers are named loot...

Khalesh
12-30-2013, 08:31 AM
How are you getting your 378ish spell points?

Even with PLs that's only 120

What am I missing?

Takllin
01-01-2014, 01:22 AM
How are you getting your 378ish spell points?

Even with PLs that's only 120

What am I missing?

He's got a bit more if a boost from the paladin levels not sure exactly which. But appears he left out the item/slot that he has his SP on.

painkiller3
01-01-2014, 06:06 AM
He's got a bit more if a boost from the paladin levels not sure exactly which. But appears he left out the item/slot that he has his SP on.

Paladin levels give an SP bonus from wisdom as well...having fun running this...looking forward to hitting 20 and trying out the eSOS...the DPS is great with just the base bladefotged weapon (at level 17). Did a melee version myself including dodge, mobility, spring attack which seems like a lot for the extra dodge but there are a lot of feats to work with :)

Cetus
01-01-2014, 12:02 PM
He's got a bit more if a boost from the paladin levels not sure exactly which. But appears he left out the item/slot that he has his SP on.

Yea I removed the vitality I had slotted in my gloves and placed a 250 spellpower augment - fixed.

Retrodark
01-01-2014, 05:48 PM
I was debating between taking Improved Critical Ranged instead of Imp. Two-handed fighting. Is that 10% extra damage on glancing blows better?

Cetus
01-02-2014, 01:14 AM
I was debating between taking Improved Critical Ranged instead of Imp. Two-handed fighting. Is that 10% extra damage on glancing blows better?

They aren't competing against one another. I have both in the build.

Retrodark
01-02-2014, 03:47 AM
They aren't competing against one another. I have both in the build.

Sorry...for some reason I didn't see it there at first.

Khalesh
01-02-2014, 03:51 AM
If you did not have access to the Completionist Feat what would you take on this build?

I work it out that the lvl 27 Epic Feat slot would be available then

What would you recommend here?

Blinding Speed seems redundant given the Goatskin boots
No Toughness so Epic Toughness bot available
Plain Toughness is a waste imo

Possibly:
Epic Reflex - No fail on 1's always good but im thinking moar dps!
Epic DR - is the incremental +10 PRR worth it?

Only thing I can think of is +1 STR if it will even you out or Greater Weapon Spec for the +2 extra damage

Cetus
01-02-2014, 09:31 AM
if you did not have access to the completionist feat what would you take on this build?

I work it out that the lvl 27 epic feat slot would be available then

what would you recommend here?

Blinding speed seems redundant given the goatskin boots
no toughness so epic toughness bot available
plain toughness is a waste imo

possibly:
Epic reflex - no fail on 1's always good but im thinking moar dps!
Epic dr - is the incremental +10 prr worth it?

Only thing i can think of is +1 str if it will even you out or greater weapon spec for the +2 extra damage

gthf

Mordirith
01-02-2014, 10:04 AM
Hey Cetus,

If you slotted in that +250 spell power on your gloves, what additional bonuses do you have on your EE Stolen Necklace? I figure they don't matter too much since you swap it out for other items, but I currently have Wizardry IX, so my item setup looks a bit like this:


Head: EE Helm of the Black Dragon - Draconic Ferocity, Insightful Constitution +3, Green Augment Slot: +2 Good Luck (ML 20), Yellow Augment Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood (ML 25)
Neck: EE Stolen Necklace - +10 Charisma, Wizardry IX, Yellow Augment Slot: Insightful Charisma +2 (ML 24)
Body: Flawless Black Dragonscale Docent - +8 AC, Armor Piercing 20%, Superior Acid Resistance, Haste Guard, Relentless Fury, Draconic Ferocity, Blue Augment Slot: Physical Resistance Rating 16 (ML 28)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf - Exceptional Seeker +5, Attack Bonus +4, Diversion 20%, Dodge 8%
Wrist: Skirmisher's Bracers - Dexterity +9, Doublestrike 8%
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves - Bluff +20, Sneak Attack Bonus +5, Exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +3, Deception, Yellow Augment Slot
Belt: Ogre Power +10 of False Life 45
Boots: EE Goatskin Boots - Speed XV, Constitution +8, Green Augment Slot: Wisdom +7 (ML 24), Colorless Augment Slot: Insightful Dexterity +2 (ML 24)
Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness - Seeker XII, Combat Mastery +5, Green Augment Slot: Heavy Fortification (ML8)
Ring 2: Seal of House Dun'Robar - Strength +7, +8% Dodge, Stunning +10
Trinket: Litany of the Dead - Profane Ability Score +1, Profane Attack Bonus +1, Profane Damage Bonus +1


According to this, there's:
+12 Strength (+10, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+13 Constitution (+8, +3 Insightful, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+13 Dexterity (+9, +2 Insightful)
+9 Wisdom (+7, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+14 Charisma (+10, +2 Insightful, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)

By having Wizardry IX on the EE Stolen Necklace, and since I don't have the equipment to make use of your metagame tricks :P I was thinking of slotting the EE Backstabber Gloves with Insightful Wisdom +2. I don't see any source of that listed in the equipment so far. I spent alot of time trying to work out "BiS" gear, but never really got past what you had already. :P I'm sure there's some minor shuffling that can be done, but the gains are so minimal.

Cetus
01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
Hey Cetus,

If you slotted in that +250 spell power on your gloves, what additional bonuses do you have on your EE Stolen Necklace? I figure they don't matter too much since you swap it out for other items, but I currently have Wizardry IX, so my item setup looks a bit like this:


Head: EE Helm of the Black Dragon - Draconic Ferocity, Insightful Constitution +3, Green Augment Slot: +2 Good Luck (ML 20), Yellow Augment Slot: Globe of True Imperial Blood (ML 25)
Neck: EE Stolen Necklace - +10 Charisma, Wizardry IX, Yellow Augment Slot: Insightful Charisma +2 (ML 24)
Body: Flawless Black Dragonscale Docent - +8 AC, Armor Piercing 20%, Superior Acid Resistance, Haste Guard, Relentless Fury, Draconic Ferocity, Blue Augment Slot: Physical Resistance Rating 16 (ML 28)
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf - Exceptional Seeker +5, Attack Bonus +4, Diversion 20%, Dodge 8%
Wrist: Skirmisher's Bracers - Dexterity +9, Doublestrike 8%
Gloves: EE Backstabber's Gloves - Bluff +20, Sneak Attack Bonus +5, Exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +3, Deception, Yellow Augment Slot
Belt: Ogre Power +10 of False Life 45
Boots: EE Goatskin Boots - Speed XV, Constitution +8, Green Augment Slot: Wisdom +7 (ML 24), Colorless Augment Slot: Insightful Dexterity +2 (ML 24)
Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness - Seeker XII, Combat Mastery +5, Green Augment Slot: Heavy Fortification (ML8)
Ring 2: Seal of House Dun'Robar - Strength +7, +8% Dodge, Stunning +10
Trinket: Litany of the Dead - Profane Ability Score +1, Profane Attack Bonus +1, Profane Damage Bonus +1


According to this, there's:
+12 Strength (+10, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+13 Constitution (+8, +3 Insightful, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+13 Dexterity (+9, +2 Insightful)
+9 Wisdom (+7, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)
+14 Charisma (+10, +2 Insightful, +1 Profane, +1 Exceptional)

By having Wizardry IX on the EE Stolen Necklace, and since I don't have the equipment to make use of your metagame tricks :P I was thinking of slotting the EE Backstabber Gloves with Insightful Wisdom +2. I don't see any source of that listed in the equipment so far. I spent alot of time trying to work out "BiS" gear, but never really got past what you had already. :P I'm sure there's some minor shuffling that can be done, but the gains are so minimal.

I dropped insightful wisdom

I like my accuracy stolen necklace - the extra to-hit helps with manyshot.

DanteEnFuego
01-02-2014, 11:12 AM
Okay, I'm having a blast with the build at lvl 22, but have some questions. I didn't take Follower of the Silver Flame, and cannot remember if I had that choice. Also, my Divine Might is showing 0 charges available. No turn undead until Pally 4? What did I screw up?

Drwaz99
01-02-2014, 11:20 AM
Okay, I'm having a blast with the build at lvl 22, but have some questions. I didn't take Follower of the Silver Flame, and cannot remember if I had that choice. Also, my Divine Might is showing 0 charges available. No turn undead until Pally 4? What did I screw up?

With this build Follower of the Silver Flame isn't available, It's Follower of the Lord of Blades (only one available if your Bladeforged).

Turns are generated from the Bane of Undeath twist from the Unyielding Sentinel Destiny.

DanteEnFuego
01-02-2014, 11:25 AM
With this build Follower of the Silver Flame isn't available, It's Follower of the Lord of Blades (only one available if your Bladeforged).

Turns are generated from the Bane of Undeath twist from the Unyielding Sentinel Destiny.

Thanks. Fixing the twist.

Cetus--Check your OP and let me know if the Silver Flame listing is a Robe/Docent issue again or something else... ;-)

Retrodark
01-02-2014, 03:44 PM
3. Before shrining, use power surge. The extra added charisma from the action surge enhancement (human) generates 2 extra divine mights after shrining is complete.

If I haven't said so before, thanks for posting this build.

Cetus
01-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Thanks. Fixing the twist.

Cetus--Check your OP and let me know if the Silver Flame listing is a Robe/Docent issue again or something else... ;-)


If I haven't said so before, thanks for posting this build.

I don't know what you guys are talking about, it looks fine to me! =D

Mordirith
01-02-2014, 11:23 PM
I dropped insightful wisdom

I like my accuracy stolen necklace - the extra to-hit helps with manyshot.

True, I suppose. I guess I can always just live with Wiz IX until I get an Accuracy version. I don't have nearly as many buttons on my mouse for what you do, eheh.

Choopak
01-03-2014, 03:00 AM
I'm running this build and liking it, but i don't have 1/4 of the gear...
Would someone gives me a list of nice "downgrade" gear for us, the unlucky...
Thanks

Sehenry03
01-04-2014, 01:11 PM
Ok Cetus...after it is all said and done, which cetus build would you prefer? Human or Bladeforged?

Drwaz99
01-04-2014, 03:22 PM
Ok Cetus...after it is all said and done, which cetus build would you prefer? Human or Bladeforged?

Bladeforged is leaps and bounds better.

Cetus
01-04-2014, 06:20 PM
Ok Cetus...after it is all said and done, which cetus build would you prefer? Human or Bladeforged?

Bladeforged without a question.

I have the other thread up before it was possible to reincarnate into iconics.

jskinner937
01-05-2014, 08:58 AM
Idk, my rogue still feels pretty uber when I run with the centered toasters.

Well, if you actually have an assassinate DC viable in HL EEs, this build doesn't need a party even in the hardest EEs...big difference in builds. Besides even in heroics, not even casters can keep up with this build.

jskinner937
01-05-2014, 09:07 AM
I am about to TR into a Melee only version of this myself. The build is not tested and there will likely be changes as I level but here is my current plan. Reflex save is a bit low, fortification might be more than is needed -- if I dropped that down to 165% I could likely slot in 2 more points of str. Suggestions and comments welcome.

Class Split: 12 Fighter / 6 Monk / 2 Pally
Race: Bladeforged

Abilities:
Str: 48/76-- (18 base + 5 tome +7 lvl +1 GoTIB +10 Item +1 Profane +2 ED +2 ship +2 Yugo / + 2 rage +8 Psionic +4 tenser +14 Divine Might)
Dex: 26 / 30 -- (8 base + 5 tome + 9 item +1 GoTIB +2 insight +1 profane +2 ship -2 stance / + 4 tenser)
Con: 40/46 -- (16 base +5 tome +1 enh +8 item +3 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +3 Stance +2 Ship / +2 rage +4 tenser)
Int: 17 -- (9 base +4 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Wis: 15 -- (6 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Cha: 38 -- (17 base +5 tome +10 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)

Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing (1), Stunning Blow (3), Great Cleave (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Greater Two-handed fighting (12), Master of Forms (15), Force of personality (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Epic Toughness (24), Epic PRR (27),
Fighter: Cleave (3), Toughness (4), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (6), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (9), Greater WF: Slashing (11), Improved Sunder (14), Power Critical (20)
Monk: Power Attack (2), Two-handed Fighting (7), Fists of Light (15), Deflect Arrow (19)
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (26), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (28)

Enhancements:
Paladin: Knight of the Chalice (9 ap): Hunter of the Dead (1), Extra Turning III (3), Extra Smite (1), Divine Might II (4),

Fighter: Kensai (33ap): Kensai Focus (1), Weapon Specialization IV (8), Action Boost: Haste III (3), Spiritual Bond (1), Weapon Meditation (2), Shattering Strike (1), Deadly Strike (1), Strike with No Thought (1), Keen Edge (1), One with the Blade (1), Extra Action Boost III (6), Tactics (6), Power Surge (1)

Monk Ninja Spy (13 ap): Ninja Training (2), Shadow Veil (1), Sneak Attack Training I (2), Acrobatic II (2), Elemental Ki: Fist of Iron (2), Agility II (2), Sting of the Ninja (2)

BladeForged (25 ap): Improved Fortification II (2), Repair Systems II (4), WF: Tactics III (3), Fearsome Presence (1), Power of the Forge (1), Communion of Scribing III (6), Improved Power Attack III (6), Con I (2)

Core Stats:
Fortification: 190%
HP: 913 Standing / 997 Boosted / 1045 Yugo – (188 levels +80 epic +406/532 con +25 heroic +10 draconic +45 False Life +15 auto grants +78 feats +50 LD / +48 Yugo)
Double Strike: 27% (8% Item + 5% Perfect TWF + 3% Draconic Ferocity +2% Kensi +9 Epic PL)
Stunning Blow DC: 75 (77) – (10 base + 34 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +3 Kensi +3 WF +6 tactics +3 Ftr PL +2 Shaken /+2 sundering)
Repair Spell Power: 209 (138 Devotion + 30 Implement +38 Repair skill)
Reconstruct SLA: 510 HP
Dodge: 15% - (8% Item + 6% Flurry + 2% Acrobatic)
PRR: 38 (12 Master Earth + 16 Augment +10 Epic PRR)
Miss Chance: 57%/73% = 20/50% Concealment (Blur/Displacement) * 25% Incorporeal * 27% dodge (Blitzing)
UMD: 42 -- (5 ranks +8 epic +14 Cha +1 tome +3 competence +2 luck +4 morale +1 profane +1 ship)

Saves:
Fort: 70/78 – (16 base +4 epic +19 con +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 Fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Ref: 57/65 – (9 base +4 epic +12 dex +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Agility +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Will: 57/63 – (9 base +4 epic +14 Cha +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +14 Divine Grace +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)

Epic Destiny – Legendary Dreadnought:
Legendary Tactics (3), Extra Action Boost (3), Momentum Swing (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Lay Waste (2), Attack Boost (1), Strength II (4), Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Critical (2), Masters Blitz (2)
Twists: Fury: Sense Weakness (4), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)

Not unlike what I have done but drop the Epic PRR for PTWF as the extra PRR will make minimal diff in dmg mitigation, but the xxtra glancing blows dmg will. Also Epic Toughness is not required and 5% doublestrike is very nice comparative or even save a boot slot and take blinding speed then get a 125% for random lootgen item. Power critical not worth it IMO, FoP or didge is a better feat slot. Deflect Arrows is a very good feat. I would even say drop Imp Sunder and grab GMoF as the stun DC is pretty damn good IMO nd I find IS used very rarely to be worth a feat slot. This coming from someone who has tested melee only of this build for 3 epic lives so far. Take it for what its worth.

Choopak
01-05-2014, 02:31 PM
Not unlike what I have done but drop the Epic PRR for PTWF as the extra PRR will make minimal diff in dmg mitigation, but the xxtra glancing blows dmg will. Also Epic Toughness is not required and 5% doublestrike is very nice comparative or even save a boot slot and take blinding speed then get a 125% for random lootgen item. Power critical not worth it IMO, FoP or didge is a better feat slot. Deflect Arrows is a very good feat. I would even say drop Imp Sunder and grab GMoF as the stun DC is pretty damn good IMO nd I find IS used very rarely to be worth a feat slot. This coming from someone who has tested melee only of this build for 3 epic lives so far. Take it for what its worth.

Kind of agree with you! I'm running a "rangeless" version also, and even without manyshot, i'm destroying everything, really efficient so far (don't even have high end gear)
Until Cetus post HIS version of a pure melee (hint hint) here's mine:
Total Feats available: 20 (7 fighter, 3 monk, 10 for level 28)
Fighter: weapon focus, weapon spec, improved critical, greater weapon focus, cleave, great cleave, stunning blow.
Monk: power attack, toughness, deflect arrows.
Level: force of personality, THF, iTHF, GTHF, dodge, magical training (help at lower levels), master of form.
Epic: overwhelming critical, epic toughness, eTHF, ePRR, eTWF.

I also change a bit of the enhancements:
Drop: 1 tier of SA training, BF imp power attack (all 3), weapon attachment, 1 tier of tactics.
Pick up: StD line up to defensive stance (require 11 AP): toughness, overbalance, stalwart defense, and imp stalwart defense PRR AND saves.

So i loose a bit of damage, but gain +3 all saves, +9% fortification, 25 PRR (in stance)
Might reset enhancements and go all in damage, but so far love the extra protection, and don't even notice the damage lost...

painkiller3
01-06-2014, 06:31 AM
Cetus: Completionist Bladeforged 12 Fighter/6 Monk/2 Paladin

Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness: Constitution +8, Combat Mastery +5, Seeker +12
Ring 2: Seal of Dun'Robar: Stunning +10


any room to fit epic ring of master artificer? I guess you can slot repair and archmagi, but not stunning. I'm using that until I get my stunning +10 seal as I like the auto-reconstruct that happens every once in a while

Takllin
01-06-2014, 09:29 AM
any room to fit epic ring of master artificer? I guess you can slot repair and archmagi, but not stunning. I'm using that until I get my stunning +10 seal as I like the auto-reconstruct that happens every once in a while

Putting a repair Augment in the red slot of your weapon is better than Ring of the Master Artifice, but if you don't have a red slot yet it works.

Choopak
01-06-2014, 11:05 AM
Putting a repair Augment in the red slot of your weapon is better than Ring of the Master Artifice, but if you don't have a red slot yet it works.

Why not both? While you wait for stunning +10...

Takllin
01-06-2014, 12:50 PM
Why not both? While you wait for stunning +10...

Well it's overkill if you already have Repair slotted in your weapon. I also think there are better rings out there, but to each his own.

Shadow7375
01-07-2014, 12:35 AM
Nice build !

Question:

Is this build supposed to be centered and in earth stance while wielding a greatsword?

If yes, how? Doesn't wielding a greatsword, or any non-monk weapon, make him un-centered?

Thanks for clarifying.


E D I T : Nevermind above ... I've figured it out ... One with the blade :-)

painkiller3
01-07-2014, 06:29 AM
Putting a repair Augment in the red slot of your weapon is better than Ring of the Master Artifice, but if you don't have a red slot yet it works.

i'm old fashioned...feel funny putting a repair augment in my eSOS...it's probably more worthwhile than 1d12 acid damage or whatever. if memory serves that's the only red slot available in the gear listed (some greens, but no purples or reds). gear is an always changing thing though. thanks!

Makkuroi
01-07-2014, 07:00 AM
i'm old fashioned...feel funny putting a repair augment in my eSOS...it's probably more worthwhile than 1d12 acid damage or whatever. if memory serves that's the only red slot available in the gear listed (some greens, but no purples or reds). gear is an always changing thing though. thanks!

Old augments were expensive and hard to clean, new augments can be easily switched. Also, eSoS gives a nice +30 implement bonus to spellpower if you slot repair, thats at least 144 repair spellpower compared to 90 from the ring. The only other things worth considering for a red slot might be a DR breaker (which isnt important in current endgame, as was stated in this thread) or a mabar augment with neg lvl on vorpal which is more interesting for weapons with a higher attack rate (twf, handwraps)

jakedamus
01-07-2014, 06:01 PM
My build is similar but with higher (easier to get) PRR

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431435-Centered-Greatsword-Kensei

Takllin
01-07-2014, 06:09 PM
My build is similar but with higher (easier to get) PRR

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431435-Centered-Greatsword-Kensei

Your build sacrifices a lot of DPS for PRR, which with it;s diminishing return isn't of that much value after 50-60.

Choopak
01-07-2014, 08:32 PM
My build is similar but with higher (easier to get) PRR

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431435-Centered-Greatsword-Kensei

I toyed with the same idea going Ftr8/ Monk6/ Pal6, but i'm doing a melee only version.
I stayed mainly DPS dho, only took StD stance for +25 PRR (and +3 saves!!!) what i like about Pal6 is bladesworn transformation (BlSw)
With Ftr8 you loose Power Surge (+8 STR) BUT BlSw make up for it, and not only in damage (BlSw is +4 STR and +4 dam) but you also get a nice protection against crits and sneak attacks (MotU anyone?)
One last thing: with Pal6 you don't need to twist in Bane of Undead, so you save a twist...

Zoda
01-08-2014, 12:44 AM
I toyed with the same idea going Ftr8/ Monk6/ Pal6, but i'm doing a melee only version.
I stayed mainly DPS dho, only took StD stance for +25 PRR (and +3 saves!!!) what i like about Pal6 is bladesworn transformation (BlSw)
With Ftr8 you loose Power Surge (+8 STR) BUT BlSw make up for it, and not only in damage (BlSw is +4 STR and +4 dam) but you also get a nice protection against crits and sneak attacks (MotU anyone?)
One last thing: with Pal6 you don't need to twist in Bane of Undead, so you save a twist...

You can get the prr and saves just the same from the stalwart tree without dropping fighter levels, also iirc Bladesworn Transformation has 10 minutes cooldown and a bit over 2 minutes duration (also worse than Power Surge anyway, only 1 more damage, but 2 less DC). You also lose 2 feats. Getting a twist is not entirely horrible, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't worth it.

Cetus:
Ungimp your fire/cold resistances dude, those shrines on the ship are not for free ya know!

painkiller3
01-08-2014, 06:02 AM
..Also, eSoS gives a nice +30 implement bonus to spellpower if you slot repair, thats at least 144 repair spellpower compared to 90 from the ring.

that's news to me that a weapon gets implement bonus if you slot a spell augment, although that makes sense as the software probably counts it as a "caster stick". good advice!

Makkuroi
01-08-2014, 07:12 AM
that's news to me that a weapon gets implement bonus if you slot a spell augment, although that makes sense as the software probably counts it as a "caster stick". good advice!

Ive been running a clonk, and its really hard to slot spellpower for them... I had slotted holy handwraps of stunning with either radiance or healing spellpower and they worked quite well. There are also all kinds of random generated weapons with spellpower which all get an implement bonus. I have to try a shield with a red slot if it gets an implement bonus (the one shield from orchard is tempting, still need 2 pieces for the new lvl 14 version with slot).

Ah, there was a lvl 28 repair spellpower augment on thelanis AH recently, thats an enormous boost to repair in an eSoS.

Andoris
01-08-2014, 03:50 PM
Not unlike what I have done but drop the Epic PRR for PTWF as the extra PRR will make minimal diff in dmg mitigation, but the xxtra glancing blows dmg will. Also Epic Toughness is not required and 5% doublestrike is very nice comparative or even save a boot slot and take blinding speed then get a 125% for random lootgen item. Power critical not worth it IMO, FoP or didge is a better feat slot. Deflect Arrows is a very good feat. I would even say drop Imp Sunder and grab GMoF as the stun DC is pretty damn good IMO nd I find IS used very rarely to be worth a feat slot. This coming from someone who has tested melee only of this build for 3 epic lives so far. Take it for what its worth.

1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

Choopak
01-09-2014, 01:45 PM
1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

Good summary, thanks for that... You covered the "feats" section, but now how about class split? Again, i'm talking about a melee only version
I fell that the Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2 might be tweak for a melee version, same classes selection, not the same split... options:
1) F10/M6/P4: loose a feat (you got plenty) and Power Surge (ouch) but can take Divine Might early and save a twist..
2) F8/M6/P6: loose 2 feats, Power Surge, for more LoH, Smites, Divine Might and Bladesworn Transformation.
3) M10/F8/P2: similar to Carpone's build, loose 2 feats, Power Surge, but gain more speed, imrpoved evasion, better FF, better saves.
I think that the 3rd one is the strongest... but might be wrong, so i'm asking for your input... Not level 28 yet (not even 20, lol) so my experience is limited.
If you guys think of something else, please feel free to point it out.
Thanks to Cetus for great build and all the others to keep this thread going...

Arianka
01-09-2014, 02:17 PM
lose

Andoris
01-09-2014, 06:32 PM
Good summary, thanks for that... You covered the "feats" section, but now how about class split? Again, i'm talking about a melee only version
I fell that the Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2 might be tweak for a melee version, same classes selection, not the same split... options:
1) F10/M6/P4: loose a feat (you got plenty) and Power Surge (ouch) but can take Divine Might early and save a twist..
2) F8/M6/P6: loose 2 feats, Power Surge, for more LoH, Smites, Divine Might and Bladesworn Transformation.
3) M10/F8/P2: similar to Carpone's build, loose 2 feats, Power Surge, but gain more speed, imrpoved evasion, better FF, better saves.
I think that the 3rd one is the strongest... but might be wrong, so i'm asking for your input... Not level 28 yet (not even 20, lol) so my experience is limited.
If you guys think of something else, please feel free to point it out.
Thanks to Cetus for great build and all the others to keep this thread going...

1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

Choopak
01-09-2014, 09:36 PM
1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

Ya starting to see your point: +8 STR is a big deal, the build already have it... so i'll stick to the basics: Ftr12/ Mnk6/ Pal2...

Cetus
01-09-2014, 09:36 PM
1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

2) LOH is okay, but not great with a bladeforged -- Bladesworn Transformation has a stupid long cool-down and a fairly short duration. Even when it is up it is only +3 str (profane doesn't stack with litany) and +4 damage (+3 profane damage +1 from str boost). With that you lost +6 [nearly] always on damage from power surge + Greater wp spec and +4 dc's derived from that strength. You do free up a twist, but again there isn't much to take.. maybe primal scream which helps a bit on the str loss (but doesn't cover all of it) or a situational twist like energy sheath or meld to darkness (requires max ed's and some ETR grinding for the fate points on that one)

3) Not a bad option -- improved evasion is nice -- again though, you are losing +4 to your DC's [big deal] and a fair amount of damage, you also lose out on greater weapon spec.

Just to piggy back - Even improved evasion is almost entirely useless, this builds saves will utilize improved evasion only 5% of the time, when it rolls a 1. And if one chooses to pursue the non-ranged version of this build, then the acquisition of epic reflexes as an epic feat is entirely possible - which completely eliminates improved evasions utility.

None of those splits can justify losing fighter feats and power surge - the benefits simply outweigh any of the value that deeper monk or pally splashes offer with the required 8 levels of fighter.

Plus, in choice 3 - you lose the fighter icon, Unacceptable! =D

Choopak
01-10-2014, 01:36 AM
Just to piggy back - Even improved evasion is almost entirely useless, this builds saves will utilize improved evasion only 5% of the time, when it rolls a 1. And if one chooses to pursue the non-ranged version of this build, then the acquisition of epic reflexes as an epic feat is entirely possible - which completely eliminates improved evasions utility.

None of those splits can justify losing fighter feats and power surge - the benefits simply outweigh any of the value that deeper monk or pally splashes offer with the required 8 levels of fighter.

Plus, in choice 3 - you lose the fighter icon, Unacceptable! =D

Thanks for input... i will stick with OP split... and, or coarse, you're right: losing fighter's icon is unacceptable, LOL

BTW, still waiting on your melee only version... just saying...

NaturalHazard
01-13-2014, 06:32 PM
Would this be doable at all for anyone without a +5 wis tome? maybe skip a few points in cha for lower saves umd to hit the wis needed for zen archery?

NaturalHazard
01-13-2014, 06:40 PM
I was thinking of a 2wf version, which weapon sets are better, 2 duel morhns? or 2 bliziards with 2 citw shortswords for dr breakers? I have them all, well I can use my 2 boxes for the shortswords only problem is i dont have enough coms to upgrade em all.

Xianio
01-13-2014, 06:49 PM
1) -8 str from power surge, and at best your going to get back +3 from using primal scream (over rage pots) -- net loss 3 dc's and base damage -- gain: 28-56 hp. Not worth it imo

If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gloves_of_Titan%27s_Grip) you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

\/ Yup, but it's an option.

emptysands
01-13-2014, 06:54 PM
If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gloves_of_Titan%27s_Grip) you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

3 clickies combined with item swap lag is going to be a pain.

NaturalHazard
01-13-2014, 07:32 PM
3 clickies combined with item swap lag is going to be a pain.

They dont last long either unfortunately. 1 minute.

emptysands
01-13-2014, 07:34 PM
They dont last long either unfortunately. 1 minute.

To be honest I find Power Surge a pain for it's 1min duration as well.

NaturalHazard
01-13-2014, 07:37 PM
To be honest I find Power Surge a pain for it's 1min duration as well.

to be honest i dont really use it much outside of boss beatdowns. Esp on a toon that has a lot of short duration clicking to do.

Roland_D'Arabel
01-13-2014, 11:02 PM
This is a DPS build. If you are lolly gagging through quests counting butterflies without power surge, DM, power of the forge, haste boost etc on at all times you are doing it wrong. It's like taking a Mclaren f1 out for a spin and not getting out of second gear.

DanteEnFuego
01-13-2014, 11:18 PM
This is a DPS build. If you are lolly gagging through quests counting butterflies without power surge, DM, power of the forge, haste boost etc on at all times you are doing it wrong. It's like taking a Mclaren f1 out for a spin and not getting out of second gear.

This...

jskinner937
01-13-2014, 11:30 PM
1. Perfect TWF and PRR are not competing for a feat slot (one is epic and one is destiny) and is already in the build. I agree the Epic PRR is a bit weak, however; couldn't find much better.

2. Blinding Speed is unnecessary as I have EE goatskins that fit well within the gear selection, and I don't think +1 ref save is worth an epic feat slot

3. Power Critical is weak (basically only +2 seeker), but I already have Force of personality and Dodge is worthless if you are blitzing -- Even then, it isn't a bad idea to swap that in for time when you are not in blitz mode, personally for me I like the extra damage.

4. Deflect Arrows is a good feat choice, but this build doesn't meet the stat requirements for it, and I am unwilling to give up a point of Stun DC to fit it in.

5. Improved Sunder is rarely used, however not quite ready to give that up yet. For one, I don't have anything better to slot in there. For two, I have a feeling that as soon as I drop it.. I will wish I didn't. Even so, feat swaps are cheap -- if I thought of something else to slot there I likely would.

6. Grand Master of forms isn't a bad idea. It would likely cost me some points in balance (would need to take 6 monk levels earlier) and likely improved sunder or power critical (two weakest feats imo). The gain would be +3 prr, +1 con (would put me at an odd number, so nothing here), and situationally +1 saves (if I swap to water stance, which I almost never do). It doesn't really seem to be worth it to me.

I think I have covered all of your questions/comments.

1.) For me I dumped my EE goatskins because there are higher fort numbers available and without Brace for Impact 10% maks a big difference and if have some iconic pls can get to 185% fort easily so I picked up blinding speed and have a 125% fort with +40HPS and Colorless Slot. It works nice for me.

3.) What about when you are not in LD or off blitz...raiding for example. Dodge is pretty nice. Heck Greater Weapon Specialization would trump PC because then you +2 dmg every swing.

4.) You can qualify it just has to be taken at monk level 1,2 or 6. Can easily be worked in since the reason Cetus took the other feats is because some of the ranged feats had to be taken later after tomes kicked in.

5.) Heck I would take Mental Toughness over PC or IS. More mana for reconstructs is a better bang for your buck IMO.

NaturalHazard
01-14-2014, 12:31 AM
to be honest i dont really use it much outside of boss beatdowns. Esp on a toon that has a lot of short duration clicking to do.

i was thinking of the glove clickies read comp fail on my part.

Choopak
01-14-2014, 02:35 AM
What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

painkiller3
01-14-2014, 06:23 AM
What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

from first post



Twists:

Bane Of Undeath (if you plan to shrine, if not then pin)
Dance of Flowers
Sense Weakness / Pin

the bane of undeath is to get turns for divine might since you don't get any turns (despite picking extra turning in enhancement tree) until level 4 for paladin

Cetus
01-14-2014, 07:24 AM
What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

Oh, I can include that I suppose -

I run LD/Fury depending on what I'm doing. Blitz isn't always useful - I know, shocking for the nerf callers! =D

Andoris
01-14-2014, 08:07 AM
If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gloves_of_Titan%27s_Grip) you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

\/ Yup, but it's an option.

That is only 3 minutes per rest of +6 str. Power surge is 11-13 minutes (depending if I remember to put on the Veriks) of +8 Str.

Titan's grip is okay if you are only planning on using it for a single fight or two. I prefer to be running in full dps mode nearly all the time.

Andoris
01-14-2014, 09:23 AM
1.) For me I dumped my EE goatskins because there are higher fort numbers available and without Brace for Impact 10% maks a big difference and if have some iconic pls can get to 185% fort easily so I picked up blinding speed and have a 125% fort with +40HPS and Colorless Slot. It works nice for me.

3.) What about when you are not in LD or off blitz...raiding for example. Dodge is pretty nice. Heck Greater Weapon Specialization would trump PC because then you +2 dmg every swing.

4.) You can qualify it just has to be taken at monk level 1,2 or 6. Can easily be worked in since the reason Cetus took the other feats is because some of the ranged feats had to be taken later after tomes kicked in.

5.) Heck I would take Mental Toughness over PC or IS. More mana for reconstructs is a better bang for your buck IMO.

I am comfortable with the level of fortification I am running with (175%), PRR on this toon is fairly low, imo 10 points of PRR is worth more than 10 pts of Fortification.

I am already running with Greater Weapon Specialization (please read my build), As for not always being in blitz -- true there are times I run in Fury.. Dodge could be an option, but we are really talking about trading marginal offence for marginal defense. Actually I am thinking of picking up Grandmaster of Forms (I know I rejected the idea eariler), which would give me the option to swap to air stance for 10% double strike -- I still need to run the numbers and see how much dps that gets me, but it could be helpful in certain situations. Other option I get with Grandmaster is that I can drop my base fortification down to 150% and free up 3 ap (I can always gear swap for when I need 175% fort).

Deflect arrows has a 13 dex requirement. Base 6 dex +5 tome only gets you to 11 -- Deflect arrows is out of reach with the current stat allocation.

I really have no need for 80 more spell points -- I almost never run out of mana, thanks to a few vile blasphemies, a bauble, twisted talisman, and in worst case there are Mnemonic pots (which I haven't used). I also start the quest with a Rad II Spell point cloak on.. as the spell points get used I swap to the wolf cloak for more dps. Spell points are not an issue.

Currently I have the toon up to level 26, I plan on playing it for a little while at 28 and see how it handles EE Stormhorns before I ETR again -- there will likely be quite a few changes after that.

On a side note -- I have been enjoying weapon attachment quite a bit. Unfortunately, that means that I am rarely using Tenser's (I don't have Cetus's patience for continually reattaching my weapon) -- I need to see how the loss of 2 dc off of stunning blow affects me when running Stormhorns (which is why I am not willing to drop improved sunder just yet).

Xianio
01-14-2014, 09:44 AM
While it would take a significant AP reallocation, which could admittedly break the build, couldn't DPS be improved by going Sireth instead of eSOS? - Provided you make your tier 5 the HeS monk tree.

Sireth with that tier 5 has the same crit profile, more attacks per second and stronger "extras" (featherfall, freedom of movement, supreme good etc etc.). I haven't yet looked into if this is possible with the AP available but I'm really just wondering if this has been considered.

Takllin
01-14-2014, 10:04 AM
While it would take a significant AP reallocation, which could admittedly break the build, couldn't DPS be improved by going Sireth instead of eSOS? - Provided you make your tier 5 the HeS monk tree.

Sireth with that tier 5 has the same crit profile, more attacks per second and stronger "extras" (featherfall, freedom of movement, supreme good etc etc.). I haven't yet looked into if this is possible with the AP available but I'm really just wondering if this has been considered.

Any stick build that attempts to be viable at endgame, must have a Rogue splash for the 15% alacrity from the Acrobat tree.

Also losing out on GB while cleaving is a big DPS loss.

Xianio
01-14-2014, 10:22 AM
Sorry, GB?


Any stick build that attempts to be viable at endgame, must have a Rogue splash for the 15% alacrity from the Acrobat tree.

Also, please validate this. Why does a stick with nearly the same profile as eSOS need 15% alacrity? It already has a faster attack speed than Greatsword naturally.

Takllin
01-14-2014, 11:11 AM
Sorry, GB?



Also, please validate this. Why does a stick with nearly the same profile as eSOS need 15% alacrity? It already has a faster attack speed than Greatsword naturally.

Glancing Blows.

First, Sireth;s base damage is far lower than eSoS. Second, it is only x2 multiplier. Third, that 15% alacrity stacks with all other sources currently in the game.

Xianio
01-14-2014, 02:03 PM
Oh I see. I think you've misread what I wrote and/or made an error in estimating Sireths damage.

Sireth is 3[1d10]+8 (fully outfitted) -- Average damage: 20.5
eSoS is 2.5[2d6]+10 -- Average damage: 22.5

So, really the average Glancing blow damage should only be marginally different (unless you consider 2.5, before applying glancing blow % damage value, to be meaningful).

Also, perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my HeS tier 5 comment. HeS tier 5 gives +1 competence bonuses to crit range and crit modifier (not just 19-20). This means that Sireth (with HeS) has the same critical hit profile (13-20x3) as eSoS.

Finally, yes 15% alacrity is great and definitely worth the consideration, but I think you've just applied a blanket statement that doesn't really apply here.

- PS: What do you mean "losing out on?" Why would you lose out on glancing blows while cleaving? Do greatswords get some sort of extra glancing blows during cleaves that other weapons don't?

Takllin
01-14-2014, 02:30 PM
Oh I see. I think you've misread what I wrote and/or made an error in estimating Sireths damage.

Sireth is 3[1d10]+8 (fully outfitted) -- Average damage: 20.5
eSoS is 2.5[2d6]+10 -- Average damage: 22.5

So, really the average Glancing blow damage should only be marginally different (unless you consider 2.5, before applying glancing blow % damage value, to be meaningful).

Also, perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my HeS tier 5 comment. HeS tier 5 gives +1 competence bonuses to crit range and crit modifier (not just 19-20). This means that Sireth (with HeS) has the same critical hit profile (13-20x3) as eSoS.

Finally, yes 15% alacrity is great and definitely worth the consideration, but I think you've just applied a blanket statement that doesn't really apply here.

- PS: What do you mean "losing out on?" Why would you lose out on glancing blows while cleaving? Do greatswords get some sort of extra glancing blows during cleaves that other weapons don't?
The average damage ratings should be higher, Sireth is 24.5, eSoS is 27.5. Sireth hits 38 highest, 11 lowest. eSoS is 15 lowest, 40 highest.

Qstaffs do not get Glancing Blow damage on any cleave animations. Which is a tremendous loss with how good they(cleaves) are.

How does that 15% alacrity not apply here? That is a HUGE increase in DPS. If your going for the best DPS, why sell yourself short?

It also breaks the build if you switch to Henshin Mystic. You lose out on Haste Boost, Tactics, Power Surge. It becomes a different build entirely, which then begs the question why take 12 levels of Fighter if your not going to use any of the enhancements.

Xianio
01-14-2014, 02:40 PM
The average damage ratings should be higher, Sireth is 24.5, eSoS is 27.5. Sireth hits 38 highest, 11 lowest. eSoS is 15 lowest, 40 highest.

You are correct, my mistake. So we're looking at a 3 damage difference.


Qstaffs do not get Glancing Blow damage on any cleave animations. Which is a tremendous loss with how good they(cleaves) are.

I wasn't aware that any weapon got glancing blows during Cleave/Great Cleave. Could you point me towards a resource that says which 2-handed weapons get these bonuses? I was under the impression that glancing blows proc'd when using a 2handed weapon and during normal attacks (1,3,4 with gthf), not during cleaves.

** I looked this up. I never knew cleaves could proc. glancing blows. Is this a bug with Qstaffs?

---

Finally, it's not relevant because I wasn't trying to come into someones thread and tell them to rework the build order. I was simply suggesting an alternative setup of AP's while noting that it might not be viable as I hadn't checked if the AP space "could" be there.

I'm getting the impression you didn't actually read the full post because I said all of this the first time and I'm just reiterating myself now.

Takllin
01-14-2014, 04:03 PM
You are correct, my mistake. So we're looking at a 3 damage difference.



I wasn't aware that any weapon got glancing blows during Cleave/Great Cleave. Could you point me towards a resource that says which 2-handed weapons get these bonuses? I was under the impression that glancing blows proc'd when using a 2handed weapon and during normal attacks (1,3,4 with gthf), not during cleaves.

** I looked this up. I never knew cleaves could proc. glancing blows. Is this a bug with Qstaffs?

---

Finally, it's not relevant because I wasn't trying to come into someones thread and tell them to rework the build order. I was simply suggesting an alternative setup of AP's while noting that it might not be viable as I hadn't checked if the AP space "could" be there.

I'm getting the impression you didn't actually read the full post because I said all of this the first time and I'm just reiterating myself now.
Yeah it's been a bug for a very long time now.

I actually did read your full post thank you very much, and I responded accordingly.

Xianio
01-14-2014, 04:07 PM
Ah nerts. Suppose that really kills the idea.

PS: The only reason I thought you didn't read it was because you told me it only had a x2 crit profile (which it would have if I hadn't mentioned HeS tier 5) and reiterated that it would completely change the build (as I had already said) if the AP wasn't there. Also that the "base damages" were significantly different, but that could be related to the x2 crit profile thing.

Either way, doesn't matter. I didn't know about the bug and that makes eSoS the -clear- winner.

Retrodark
01-15-2014, 11:37 AM
Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing (1), Stunning Blow (3), Great Cleave (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Greater Two-handed fighting (12), Master of Forms (15), Force of personality (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Epic Toughness (24), Epic PRR (27),
Fighter: Cleave (3), Toughness (4), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (6), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (9), Greater WF: Slashing (11), Improved Sunder (14), Power Critical (20)
Monk: Power Attack (2), Two-handed Fighting (7), Fists of Light (15), Deflect Arrow (19)
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (26), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (28)



Not a big deal, but Toughness is not a Fighter special Feat option. However, it is a Monk martial arts feat, and IMO Deflect Arrow is useless.

Eth
01-16-2014, 04:40 AM
Ah nerts. Suppose that really kills the idea.

PS: The only reason I thought you didn't read it was because you told me it only had a x2 crit profile (which it would have if I hadn't mentioned HeS tier 5) and reiterated that it would completely change the build (as I had already said) if the AP wasn't there. Also that the "base damages" were significantly different, but that could be related to the x2 crit profile thing.

Either way, doesn't matter. I didn't know about the bug and that makes eSoS the -clear- winner.

Well, the builds are to different for a direct comparision.
But put more thought into it.
Staff builds can situationally have up to 70% melee alacricity and 55 - 85% doublestrike.

Nightmanis
01-19-2014, 02:15 PM
Oh, I can include that I suppose -

I run LD/Fury depending on what I'm doing. Blitz isn't always useful - I know, shocking for the nerf callers! =D

I find it funny when I see people who have copied your build, and they're charging and blitzing in stuff like Von5 en.

I mean, seriously? I don't remember the last time I blitzed (Takes forever to charge it on my build) but why would you even worry in there? It's not like you're running a build that's totally useless outside of it...

Munkenmo
01-19-2014, 07:03 PM
IMO Deflect Arrow is useless.

Do you run EE? Have you tried actually using the feat?

Imo deflect arrows is really good.

omeganeg1
01-20-2014, 06:28 AM
Do you run EE? Have you tried actually using the feat?

Imo deflect arrows is really good.

Agreed. I run a version of Carpone's build and stacking this on top of all the other avoidance is great.

Takllin
01-20-2014, 11:21 AM
I find it funny when I see people who have copied your build, and they're charging and blitzing in stuff like Von5 en.

I mean, seriously? I don't remember the last time I blitzed (Takes forever to charge it on my build) but why would you even worry in there? It's not like you're running a build that's totally useless outside of it...

Because it makes the quest faster?

Cetus
01-20-2014, 01:39 PM
Do you run EE? Have you tried actually using the feat?

Imo deflect arrows is really good.

Meh, deflect arrows is a waste of a feat as far as I'm concerned. Arrows aren't that much of a threat

Andoris
01-20-2014, 05:01 PM
Got my second ETR out of the way -- Overall, the loss of effective ranged damage was not terrible. There are a few quests that would have been easier with it, but none where it was absolutely required(well maybe EE Thrill of the Hunt). That being said I almost always am ina group -- If I was building the toon to solo content, I can't imagine not having the option to swap to a bow.

Biggest concern I have is being a bladeforged over fleshy. While the Recon SLA is good, and effective in 95%+ of situations.. there are times that lack of a meaningful (non-sp based) backup healing solution is painful (thinking of EE CitW). At the end of the day, for the few times that being a fleshy would have been advantageous, the bladeforged build is stronger in most content that I typically run.

Here is the current plan for my next 20-28 run with the build. I have decided to go with Weapon Attachment and only use Tenser's when really necessary. Primary reason for that is player laziness (I don't want to be reattaching my weapon all the time to cast Tenser’s). The extra damage from the Seeker and bonus to base damage more than makes up for the loss of 4 pts of str. Larger question will be is do I need to slot in Tactician to make up for my laziness or can I keep P-THF. Reflex saves are still lower than I would like, but I think I can live with them (just need to get better at dodging Ottolukes).

I do have level 21 and 25 gear swaps figured out as well if anyone is interested. As always feedback/suggestions are welcome.

Class Split: 12 Fighter / 6 Monk / 2 Pally
Race: Bladeforged

Abilities:
Str: 52/78-- (18 base + 5 tome +7 lvl +1 enh +1 GoTIB +10 Item +1 Profane +3 Insightful +2 ED +2 ship +2 Yugo/ + 2 Morale [Rage] +4 Alchemical [Tenser’s] +15 Insightful [Divine Might])
Dex: 24/28 -- (6 base + 5 tome + 9 item +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship -2 stance +2 Yugo / + 4 Alchemical [Tenser’s])
Con: 40/46 -- (16 base +5 tome +1 enh +8 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +4 Stance +2 Ship / +2 Morale [Rage] +4 Alchemical [Tenser’s])
Int: 16 -- (8 base +4 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Wis: 16 -- (7 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Cha: 40 -- (17 base +5 tome +10 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship +2 Yugo)

Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing, Stunning Blow, Great Cleave, Improved Critical: Slashing, Greater Two-handed fighting, Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, Overwhelming Critical, Epic Toughness, Epic PRR
Fighter: Cleave, Dodge, Weapon Specialization: Slashing, Improved Two-Handed Fighting, Greater WF: Slashing, Greater WS: Slashing
Monk: Power Attack, Two-handed Fighting, Fists of Light, Toughness
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting or Tactician, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting

Enhancements:
Paladin: Knight of the Chalice (7 ap): Hunter of the Dead (1), Extra Turning III (3), Extra Smite (1), Divine Might I (2)

Fighter: Kensai (35ap): Kensai Focus (1), Spiritual Bond (1), Strike with No Thought (1), Power Surge (1), Weapon Specialization IV (8), Action Boost: Haste III (3), Extra Action Boost III (6), Tactics III (6), Weapon Meditation (2), Shattering Strike (1), Deadly Strike (1), Keen Edge (1), One with the Blade (1), Str I (2)

Monk Ninja Spy (13 ap): Ninja Training (2), Shadow Veil (1), Sneak Attack Training I (2), Acrobatic II (2), Elemental Ki: Fist of Iron (2), Agility II (2), Sting of the Ninja (2)

Blade Forged (25 ap): Improved Fortification II (2), WF Con I (2), Repair Systems I (2), WF: Tactics III (3), Fearsome Presence (1), Power of the Forge (1), Communion of Scribing III (6), Weapon Attachment (1), Communion of Handling (1), Improved Power Attack III (6)

Core Stats:

Fortification: 190%
HP: 923 Standing / 1007 Boosted / 1055 Yugo – (188 levels +80 epic +406/532 con +25 heroic +10 draconic +45 False Life +15 auto grants +78 feats +50 LD / +48 Yugo)
Double Strike: 27% (8% Item + 5% Perfect TWF + 3% Draconic Ferocity +2% Kensi +9% Epic PL)
Stunning Blow DC: 74 /76 – (10 base + 32/34 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +3 Kensi +3 WF +6 tactics +3 Ftr PL +2 Shaken)
Trip DC: 79 / 81 (Epic Blademark)
Repair Spell Power: 209 (138 Devotion + 30 Implement +38 heal skill)
Reconstruct SLA: 510 HP
Dodge: 19% - (8% Item + 6% Flurry + 2% Acrobatic +3% Feat)
PRR: 41 (15 Master Earth + 16 Augment +10 Epic PRR)
Miss Chance: 57%/73% = 20/50% Concealment (Blur/Displacement) * 25% Incorporeal * 27% dodge (Blitzing)
UMD: 42 -- (5 ranks +8 epic +14 Cha +1 tome +3 competence +2 luck +4 morale +1 profane +1 ship)

Saves:
Fort: 71/79 – (16 base +4 epic +16/18 con +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace / +2 Fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Ref: 57/65 – (9 base +4 epic +7/9 dex +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Agility +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace / +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Will: 59/65 – (9 base +4 epic +15 cha +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace -4 Yugo / +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)

Epic Destiny – Legendary Dreadnought:
Legendary Tactics (3), Extra Action Boost (3), Momentum Swing (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Lay Waste (2), Attack Boost (1), Strength II (4), Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Critical (2), Masters Blitz (2)
Twists: Fury: Sense Weakness (4) or Meld to Darkness (3), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)

Epic Destiny – Fury
Primal Scream (3), Tunnel Vision (1), Str II (4), Acute Instincts (3), Damage Reduction (3), Overwhelming Force (3), Sense Weakness (3), Fury Eternal (2), Unbridled Fury (2)
Twists: LD: Legendary Tactics (1), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)


Gear:
Trinket: Litany (Eldrich Saves Ritual) / PLIS
Head: Black dragon +3 iStr, (Green: 250 SP, Yellow: GoTIB)
Neck: Deadly 10 / Verik’s mjm
Goggles: Charisma 10, Resistance 10
Bracers: Skirmishers (+9 Dex, +8 Double Strike)
Body: Black Dragon (Blue: Heavy Fort) / Epic Blademark Docent
Cloak: Cloak of the Wolf / RAD II 150 SP
Ring: EE Consuming Darkness (Green: 16 PRR)
Ring: Seal of Dun’Ro’Bar +2 iCon, Stunning 10
Boots: EE Goatskins Fortification 115% (Green: Good luck Colorless: +2 iCha)
Gloves: EE Backstabers (Yellow: Con 8)
Belt: Ogre Power 10 False Life 45
Weapons: eSoS (Colorless: +11 Repair, Red: Reconstruction 138),

Munkenmo
01-20-2014, 07:07 PM
Meh, deflect arrows is a waste of a feat as far as I'm concerned. Arrows aren't that much of a threat

Try the feat and see how it really works.

Kanuk
01-20-2014, 07:39 PM
Thank you very much for posting your build, i am currently 12/6/2 human non-range and looking at pinion in raid box.... Was thinking of similar build and guildy linked me your post, excellent!

This would be for my 2nd main and even if i would have same weapon set, im behind on most of the gear. So working with +5 Str and Cha tomes, +4 con, +3 rest. This would be 5th life (PL: 2 Barb,1pally,1figther),with 1 Epic martial for 3% doublestrike. Important to mention i don’t have seal of Dun’Robar which seems key to a portion of build.

Questions:
• Does Seal of Dun’Robar drop on any difficulty? Or only EH/EE maybe?
• Any other non-weapon slot item that gives high + to stun? Base stun bonus, not combat mastery or exceptional bonus.
• Is weapon focus range really needed? Seems only +1 to atk is not much, or am i missing something?
• Since i plan to do a few epic TR eventually with this toon, should i slot lvl 20 or 24 augment for repair? Could always use eAGA from 20 to 24 (which i still have 2 more 100 hour augment i could use in it!)
• I think i may skip stunning blow,let me know if you think this is huge mistake. Potentially 3 feats to swap depending on feedback to above questions (stunning blow, completionist, weapon focus range). Was thinking toughness, Etoughness and perma haste. Or grandmaster, haste and ... dodge, deflect arrows, force of personality? Note, if/when i pick up Seal of Dun’Robar, i would pick up stunning blow.
• Last question, im sure enhancement can be tweaked as needed, but is ninja poison worth it? It’s only 2 points but so many options with such a build that i removed it recently on my current melee build.

Again, thank you very much for the layout, im sure i will have tons of fun with it. Thank you also to any who answer

Cetus
01-20-2014, 08:05 PM
Try the feat and see how it really works.

You'd be hard pressed to find feats I haven't tried yet...

I stand by my initial statement, its largely useless when I play this build; hence not worth dropping whatever it is that would be lost in order to fit this in.

Munkenmo
01-20-2014, 08:42 PM
I stand by my initial statement, its largely useless when I play this build; hence not worth dropping whatever it is that would be lost in order to fit this in.

Ive gotta admit, qualifying for manyshot really does burn through a lot of feats. Though id recommend deflect arrows to someone following your split, provided they dont have completionist.

I personally went with 10k stars, saved a lot of feats and gave me room for a couple of defensive feats.

Takllin
01-20-2014, 08:48 PM
Ive gotta admit, qualifying for manyshot really does burn through a lot of feats. Though id recommend deflect arrows to someone following your split, provided they dont have completionist.

I personally went with 10k stars, saved a lot of feats and gave me room for a couple of defensive feats.

I'd think GTHF is more valuable than deflect arrows.

Also how do you have a high enough wisdom to make use of 10k stars on this build?

kierg10
01-20-2014, 08:49 PM
Because it makes the quest faster?

today was doing EE belly, and basically healer focused heals on me while everyone else (I was the only non ranged character lol) pew pewed from above in the stands for the arena fight, and I blitzed down in the arena.

Blitz is awesome lol....

Munkenmo
01-20-2014, 08:53 PM
I'd think GTHF is more valuable than deflect arrows.

Also how do you have a high enough wisdom to make use of 10k stars on this build?

He doesnt have gthf atm? Thf and ithf are practically useless, their only purpose is to qualify for gthf, I totally agree that gthf is more usfull than deflect arrows, I missed that he didnt have it already.

I only need to hit 13dex for feat requirments, I put some base points into wisdom.

LavidDynch
01-20-2014, 08:56 PM
today was doing EE belly, and basically healer focused heals on me while everyone else (I was the only non ranged character lol) pew pewed from above in the stands for the arena fight, and I blitzed down in the arena.

Blitz is awesome lol....

Why am i thinking about the old saying "you can lead a donkey to the water, but you can't make it drink". (that is a pun to the archers in your group.)

@OP sorry for the off topic.

Jeromio
01-21-2014, 06:38 AM
He doesnt have gthf atm? Thf and ithf are practically useless, their only purpose is to qualify for gthf, I totally agree that gthf is more usfull than deflect arrows, I missed that he didnt have it already.

I only need to hit 13dex for feat requirments, I put some base points into wisdom.

Why are THF and ITFH practically useless compared to GTHF? I thought each of the feats gave 10% glancing blow damage and 3% effect triggering for glancing blows, and there was nothing special with GTFH compared to the other ones.
Is GTFH perhaps some pre-req to something, would that be it?

Cetus
01-21-2014, 07:14 AM
Why are THF and ITFH practically useless compared to GTHF? I thought each of the feats gave 10% glancing blow damage and 3% effect triggering for glancing blows, and there was nothing special with GTFH compared to the other ones.
Is GTFH perhaps some pre-req to something, would that be it?

If you go through your entire attack chain, GTHF adds an additional glancing blow proc - which, if that's how you melee, is very nice.

However, GTHF is just 10% glance damage for me, because I don't auto attack - so I seldom see that extra glance with my play dynamics.

THF and ITHF are still very useful, 20% glancing blow damage is a nice DPS boost since this build cleaves so much, and momentum swing procs several glances as well.

THF and ITHF are far from useless - deflect arrows belongs in the "useless" category because there aren't any projectiles that are of significant threat to this build, especially at the rate at which it blocks incoming projectiles. All that dodge, displacement, shadow fade will take care of them, that feat is about as useful to me as skill focus : swim.

Jeromio
01-21-2014, 07:38 AM
If you go through your entire attack chain, GTHF adds an additional glancing blow proc - which, if that's how you melee, is very nice.

However, GTHF is just 10% glance damage for me, because I don't auto attack - so I seldom see that extra glance with my play dynamics.

THF and ITHF are still very useful, 20% glancing blow damage is a nice DPS boost since this build cleaves so much, and momentum swing procs several glances as well.

THF and ITHF are far from useless - deflect arrows belongs in the "useless" category because there aren't any projectiles that are of significant threat to this build, especially at the rate at which it blocks incoming projectiles. All that dodge, displacement, shadow fade will take care of them, that feat is about as useful to me as skill focus : swim.

Thanks for clarifying!

Munkenmo
01-21-2014, 08:10 AM
You only get glancing blows when your standing still, I very rarely if ever stand still, thus to me, thf & ithf are completely uselss without gthf.

It comes down to playstyle driving opinion I guess, Cetus and I are both correct based on how we play our own toons.

Cetus
01-21-2014, 10:29 AM
You only get glancing blows when your standing still.

Wrong.

I cleave, great cleave, and lay waste while plowing through masses of mobs and those attacks generate glances, I'm not standing still except during the instant moment when I cleave. Running at a mob and momentum swinging at it also generates glancing blow procs. THF and ITHF are very useful. I would take GTHF if I had room, and it has exactly the same value as any of its pre-reqs or PTHF - 10% glance damage.

Osedox
01-21-2014, 10:50 AM
Im thinking of doing a melee only variation of this build framework and had a few questions.

-Since I am skipping the ranged portion of the build, is anything more than monk 2 required?
-Would it be terrible to do 12ftr/6pally/2monk, or even 12ftr/4pally/4monk? and how much would i lose by not taking monk to 6?
-Would i lose a significant portion of my dps by spending more points into the paladin DoS tree for greater PRR/saves and less in Ninja Spy?
-Since i would get Turn Undead automatically from pally4 or pally6 what would be the most optimal twist to replace Bane of Undeath with?
-Does use of Bladesworn transformation negate use of Communion of Scribing?

Nightmanis
01-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Im thinking of doing a melee only variation of this build framework and had a few questions.

-Since I am skipping the ranged portion of the build, is anything more than monk 2 required?
-Would it be terrible to do 12ftr/6pally/2monk, or even 12ftr/4pally/4monk? and how much would i lose by not taking monk to 6?
-Would i lose a significant portion of my dps by spending more points into the paladin DoS tree for greater PRR/saves and less in Ninja Spy?
-Since i would get Turn Undead automatically from pally4 or pally6 what would be the most optimal twist to replace Bane of Undeath with?
-Does use of Bladesworn transformation negate use of Communion of Scribing?

6 Monk is for Shadow fade, which is 25% incorporeal (15% higher than you can get on an item.) It's also an extra feat, and in all honesty with the way the build is setup it's 2 extra feats as you get the second tier forms autogranted.

However, because you are getting rid of the ranged portion it does free up a couple (7, isn't it?) feats which makes that part a bit null. You also get a twist back since you get the turns from 4 paladin.

So, basically it's you lose some defense (shadow fade vs incorp item) in favour of gaining a twist back and losing a potential feat. But that's only that part. Other changes come from your enhancements. 2 Monk doesn't allow you to take ninja poison (which apparently is awesome) but the 6 paladin allows you to go after the defender stance for a tiny bit more defense.

Osedox
01-21-2014, 04:03 PM
6 Monk is for Shadow fade, which is 25% incorporeal (15% higher than you can get on an item.) It's also an extra feat, and in all honesty with the way the build is setup it's 2 extra feats as you get the second tier forms autogranted.

However, because you are getting rid of the ranged portion it does free up a couple (7, isn't it?) feats which makes that part a bit null. You also get a twist back since you get the turns from 4 paladin.

So, basically it's you lose some defense (shadow fade vs incorp item) in favour of gaining a twist back and losing a potential feat. But that's only that part. Other changes come from your enhancements. 2 Monk doesn't allow you to take ninja poison (which apparently is awesome) but the 6 paladin allows you to go after the defender stance for a tiny bit more defense.

Wow ok I hadn't even realized that was the reason for Mnk6 I just thought it was for the extra martial arts feat. Shadow fade seems like a pretty cool ability, however I dont see any duration listed in the Wiki entry, does anyone happen to know how long it lasts? Or if earthstance generates enough ki on average to keep this buff refeshed?

I believe Monk4/Pally4 would address the Ninja Poison Issue, as well as getting me access to the full (tier 4) Dos and NiS trees.

Arianka
01-21-2014, 05:45 PM
Wow ok I hadn't even realized that was the reason for Mnk6 I just thought it was for the extra martial arts feat. Shadow fade seems like a pretty cool ability, however I dont see any duration listed in the Wiki entry, does anyone happen to know how long it lasts?

1 minute.

Osedox
01-21-2014, 07:52 PM
Damn.... well thats pretty hard to pass up. I was thinking you would get better defensive options through a deeper pally splash but this is way better.

I haven't played a monk or centered toon ever, does the Ki generation keep up with constant use of Shadow Veil 1/min, and Fists of Iron approx. 1 every 3sec?

So I keep hearing that Ninja Poison is amazing, is this just the DoT effect that is being referred to? or is the Poison Exploit Ninjutsu also utilized? It seems like it would be difficult to work in touch of despair along with all the other things in an attack rotation (cleave->Gcleave->fists of iron->momentum swing->lay waste)

Roland_D'Arabel
01-21-2014, 08:04 PM
Damn.... well thats pretty hard to pass up. I was thinking you would get better defensive options through a deeper pally splash but this is way better.

I haven't played a monk or centered toon ever, does the Ki generation keep up with constant use of Shadow Veil 1/min, and Fists of Iron approx. 1 every 3sec?

So I keep hearing that Ninja Poison is amazing, is this just the DoT effect that is being referred to? or is the Poison Exploit Ninjutsu also utilized? It seems like it would be difficult to work in touch of despair along with all the other things in an attack rotation (cleave->Gcleave->fists of iron->momentum swing->lay waste)

I can't imagine a time when you will ever run out of ki on this build. I have about 95 or 100 max ki and my yellow bar is always full. This is with running perma shadow veil and always using fists of iron.

The ninja poison is very very effective, especially on named. I often see procs of 60 to 100 poison damage every 2 seconds on named enemies. That is a pretty big dps addition.

Munkenmo
01-21-2014, 08:13 PM
Wrong.

I cleave, great cleave, and lay waste while plowing through masses of mobs and those attacks generate glances, I'm not standing still except during the instant moment when I cleave. Running at a mob and momentum swinging at it also generates glancing blow procs. THF and ITHF are very useful. I would take GTHF if I had room, and it has exactly the same value as any of its pre-reqs or PTHF - 10% glance damage.


Your experience very much differs from mine.

Ive been busy playing different builds (unarmed, animal and bow) since the enhancement pass. Is this a more recent change?

Even the wiki points out the need to be stationary.



Basic mechanicsOne free glancing blow attack is made automatically against all enemies in a wide arc in front of your character on the first and fourth swing (if you have a fourth swing) of your attack sequence (http://ddowiki.com/page/Attack_sequence). You must be stationary. If you move while attacking, you don't get glancing blows.

Cetus
01-21-2014, 08:25 PM
Your experience very much differs from mine.

Ive been busy playing different builds (unarmed, animal and bow) since the enhancement pass. Is this a more recent change?

Even the wiki points out the need to be stationary.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

What else do you want me to say, grab a weapon - cleave something, and observe the glance.

Munkenmo
01-21-2014, 08:31 PM
What else do you want me to say, grab a weapon - cleave something, and observe the glance.

I would if I was restricted to cellphone net access till february :(

If you're right its going to change a lot of my builds though, for the better :)

Osedox
01-21-2014, 08:32 PM
I can't imagine a time when you will ever run out of ki on this build. I have about 95 or 100 max ki and my yellow bar is always full. This is with running perma shadow veil and always using fists of iron.

The ninja poison is very very effective, especially on named. I often see procs of 60 to 100 poison damage every 2 seconds on named enemies. That is a pretty big dps addition.

Ok im sold on the original class split, between shadow veil and ninja poison it looks like having to sacrifice the twist slot for Bane of Undeath is worthwhile, and there is no other better option for offense or defense. Thank you everyone who answered my questions and of course thanks to Cetus, I can't wait to tr.

Roland_D'Arabel
01-21-2014, 08:56 PM
... having to sacrifice the twist slot for Bane of Undeath ...


This too is unnecessary mostly. Swapping to Unyielding Sentinel and back into Dreadnought in a public space recharges your Divine Might without any need to keep it twisted. Unless you think you will need more charges in a single quest than you have in total, you never need to have Bane of Undeath twisted. Hope this makes sense.

Osedox
01-21-2014, 09:10 PM
This too is unnecessary mostly. Swapping to Unyielding Sentinel and back into Dreadnought in a public space recharges your Divine Might without any need to keep it twisted. Unless you think you will need more charges in a single quest than you have in total, you never need to have Bane of Undeath twisted. Hope this makes sense.

Ah now I understand the notation Cetus made next to Bane of Undeath. Thanks again Roland, very helpful tips.

Just being honest here also its very unlikely that ill ever end up grinding enough destiny levels to have the full 4/2/1 twists because this will be an alt toon and im lazy so perhaps ill just skip Sense Weakness and do Bane of Undeath/Primal Scream/Dance of Flowers instead.

Crann
01-22-2014, 12:27 PM
I have been playing with the enhancements and have observed something I haven't seen discussed here yet.

I have been going back and forth on the usefulness of Weapon Attachment, and had decided that for the one action point it costs you to take, it is worth it.

The thing I did not really pay attention to was the Communion of Handling enhancement. It required that Weapon Attachment is active. It also appears to provide a +5 racial seeker. The description lists it as a +2 racial seeker, which seemed pretty good to me.

Looking at a weapon equipped with that enhancement...while Weapon Attachment is active...it is showing a +5 bonus to racial seeker. Since it is listed as a racial modifier, one would think it would stack with all the other sources of seeker.

Has anyone else running this build noticed this, and has it changed your outlook on the usefulness of these two enhancements? I am of the opinion that the extra 5 seeker on a build which has such high crit multipliers might justify the action point expenditure as well as tolerating the hassle of working it into your scroll buffing rotations.

Cetus
01-22-2014, 12:43 PM
I have been playing with the enhancements and have observed something I haven't seen discussed here yet.

I have been going back and forth on the usefulness of Weapon Attachment, and had decided that for the one action point it costs you to take, it is worth it.

The thing I did not really pay attention to was the Communion of Handling enhancement. It required that Weapon Attachment is active. It also appears to provide a +5 racial seeker. The description lists it as a +2 racial seeker, which seemed pretty good to me.

Looking at a weapon equipped with that enhancement...while Weapon Attachment is active...it is showing a +5 bonus to racial seeker. Since it is listed as a racial modifier, one would think it would stack with all the other sources of seeker.

Has anyone else running this build noticed this, and has it changed your outlook on the usefulness of these two enhancements? I am of the opinion that the extra 5 seeker on a build which has such high crit multipliers might justify the action point expenditure as well as tolerating the hassle of working it into your scroll buffing rotations.

I haven't noticed that, thanks for the tip - I'll check it out.

Roland_D'Arabel
01-22-2014, 12:45 PM
Ah now I understand the notation Cetus made next to Bane of Undeath. Thanks again Roland, very helpful tips.

Just being honest here also its very unlikely that ill ever end up grinding enough destiny levels to have the full 4/2/1 twists because this will be an alt toon and im lazy so perhaps ill just skip Sense Weakness and do Bane of Undeath/Primal Scream/Dance of Flowers instead.

If you can swing a 3/2/1 twist, you could take Grim's Precision from Shadowdancer which gives 15% bypass to fortification. Quite handy to twist imo.

Xianio
01-22-2014, 03:56 PM
I would if I was restricted to cellphone net access till february :(

If you're right its going to change a lot of my builds though, for the better :)

Cleave: (http://ddowiki.com/page/Cleave)

"The difference is that cleave counts a full attack, dealing full special effect damage to all targets hit, and also producing a glancing blow (if using an appropriate weapon that allows them)"

Hawkwier
01-22-2014, 05:27 PM
Anyone have strong views on pros and cons of F12/P2/M6 vs F8/P6/M6 variants? I'm kinda leaning towards the latter and need to make the call soon when I hit L17...

Cheers :)

painkiller3
01-22-2014, 05:59 PM
The +5 stacking racial seeker really adds to dps...I don't UMD tenser's (like Cetus does) so the extra seeker on the eSOS makes a big difference...will look into Ninja Poison

NaturalHazard
01-22-2014, 06:51 PM
Anyone have strong views on pros and cons of F12/P2/M6 vs F8/P6/M6 variants? I'm kinda leaning towards the latter and need to make the call soon when I hit L17...

Cheers :)

why 6 pally? to free up a twist slot for something else? Power Surge is just awesome, you miss out on some feats too right? seems a bit of a waste 2-4 pally levels is all you really need.

Choopak
01-22-2014, 07:31 PM
Anyone have strong views on pros and cons of F12/P2/M6 vs F8/P6/M6 variants? I'm kinda leaning towards the latter and need to make the call soon when I hit L17...

Cheers :)

Well pal6 is good for 2 things: easy and early access to divine might, AND bladesworn transformation...
I did a simulation of the build (F8/P6/M6) on character builder... pretty impressive

Choopak
01-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Got my second ETR out of the way -- Overall, the loss of effective ranged damage was not terrible. There are a few quests that would have been easier with it, but none where it was absolutely required(well maybe EE Thrill of the Hunt). That being said I almost always am ina group -- If I was building the toon to solo content, I can't imagine not having the option to swap to a bow.

Biggest concern I have is being a bladeforged over fleshy. While the Recon SLA is good, and effective in 95%+ of situations.. there are times that lack of a meaningful (non-sp based) backup healing solution is painful (thinking of EE CitW). At the end of the day, for the few times that being a fleshy would have been advantageous, the bladeforged build is stronger in most content that I typically run.

Here is the current plan for my next 20-28 run with the build. I have decided to go with Weapon Attachment and only use Tenser's when really necessary. Primary reason for that is player laziness (I don't want to be reattaching my weapon all the time to cast Tenser’s). The extra damage from the Seeker and bonus to base damage more than makes up for the loss of 4 pts of str. Larger question will be is do I need to slot in Tactician to make up for my laziness or can I keep P-THF. Reflex saves are still lower than I would like, but I think I can live with them (just need to get better at dodging Ottolukes).

I do have level 21 and 25 gear swaps figured out as well if anyone is interested. As always feedback/suggestions are welcome.

Class Split: 12 Fighter / 6 Monk / 2 Pally
Race: Bladeforged

Abilities:
Str: 52/78-- (18 base + 5 tome +7 lvl +1 enh +1 GoTIB +10 Item +1 Profane +3 Insightful +2 ED +2 ship +2 Yugo/ + 2 Morale [Rage] +4 Alchemical [Tenser’s] +15 Insightful [Divine Might])
Dex: 24/28 -- (6 base + 5 tome + 9 item +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship -2 stance +2 Yugo / + 4 Alchemical [Tenser’s])
Con: 40/46 -- (16 base +5 tome +1 enh +8 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +4 Stance +2 Ship / +2 Morale [Rage] +4 Alchemical [Tenser’s])
Int: 16 -- (8 base +4 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Wis: 16 -- (7 base +5 tome +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship)
Cha: 40 -- (17 base +5 tome +10 item +2 insight +1 GoTIB +1 profane +2 ship +2 Yugo)

Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing, Stunning Blow, Great Cleave, Improved Critical: Slashing, Greater Two-handed fighting, Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, Overwhelming Critical, Epic Toughness, Epic PRR
Fighter: Cleave, Dodge, Weapon Specialization: Slashing, Improved Two-Handed Fighting, Greater WF: Slashing, Greater WS: Slashing
Monk: Power Attack, Two-handed Fighting, Fists of Light, Toughness
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting or Tactician, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting

Enhancements:
Paladin: Knight of the Chalice (7 ap): Hunter of the Dead (1), Extra Turning III (3), Extra Smite (1), Divine Might I (2)

Fighter: Kensai (35ap): Kensai Focus (1), Spiritual Bond (1), Strike with No Thought (1), Power Surge (1), Weapon Specialization IV (8), Action Boost: Haste III (3), Extra Action Boost III (6), Tactics III (6), Weapon Meditation (2), Shattering Strike (1), Deadly Strike (1), Keen Edge (1), One with the Blade (1), Str I (2)

Monk Ninja Spy (13 ap): Ninja Training (2), Shadow Veil (1), Sneak Attack Training I (2), Acrobatic II (2), Elemental Ki: Fist of Iron (2), Agility II (2), Sting of the Ninja (2)

Blade Forged (25 ap): Improved Fortification II (2), WF Con I (2), Repair Systems I (2), WF: Tactics III (3), Fearsome Presence (1), Power of the Forge (1), Communion of Scribing III (6), Weapon Attachment (1), Communion of Handling (1), Improved Power Attack III (6)

Core Stats:

Fortification: 190%
HP: 923 Standing / 1007 Boosted / 1055 Yugo – (188 levels +80 epic +406/532 con +25 heroic +10 draconic +45 False Life +15 auto grants +78 feats +50 LD / +48 Yugo)
Double Strike: 27% (8% Item + 5% Perfect TWF + 3% Draconic Ferocity +2% Kensi +9% Epic PL)
Stunning Blow DC: 74 /76 – (10 base + 32/34 Str +5 exc combat mastery +10 stunning +3 Kensi +3 WF +6 tactics +3 Ftr PL +2 Shaken)
Trip DC: 79 / 81 (Epic Blademark)
Repair Spell Power: 209 (138 Devotion + 30 Implement +38 heal skill)
Reconstruct SLA: 510 HP
Dodge: 19% - (8% Item + 6% Flurry + 2% Acrobatic +3% Feat)
PRR: 41 (15 Master Earth + 16 Augment +10 Epic PRR)
Miss Chance: 57%/73% = 20/50% Concealment (Blur/Displacement) * 25% Incorporeal * 27% dodge (Blitzing)
UMD: 42 -- (5 ranks +8 epic +14 Cha +1 tome +3 competence +2 luck +4 morale +1 profane +1 ship)

Saves:
Fort: 71/79 – (16 base +4 epic +16/18 con +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace / +2 Fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Ref: 57/65 – (9 base +4 epic +7/9 dex +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Agility +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace / +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)
Will: 59/65 – (9 base +4 epic +15 cha +4 morale +10 resistance +2 luck +1 competence +1 Ship +2 Aura of Good +15 Divine Grace -4 Yugo / +2 fire finisher +4 Power of the forge)

Epic Destiny – Legendary Dreadnought:
Legendary Tactics (3), Extra Action Boost (3), Momentum Swing (3), Improved Power Attack (2), Lay Waste (2), Attack Boost (1), Strength II (4), Advancing Blows (2), Devastating Critical (2), Masters Blitz (2)
Twists: Fury: Sense Weakness (4) or Meld to Darkness (3), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)

Epic Destiny – Fury
Primal Scream (3), Tunnel Vision (1), Str II (4), Acute Instincts (3), Damage Reduction (3), Overwhelming Force (3), Sense Weakness (3), Fury Eternal (2), Unbridled Fury (2)
Twists: LD: Legendary Tactics (1), US: Bane of Undeath (1), Grandmaster: Dance of Flowers (1)


Gear:
Trinket: Litany (Eldrich Saves Ritual) / PLIS
Head: Black dragon +3 iStr, (Green: 250 SP, Yellow: GoTIB)
Neck: Deadly 10 / Verik’s mjm
Goggles: Charisma 10, Resistance 10
Bracers: Skirmishers (+9 Dex, +8 Double Strike)
Body: Black Dragon (Blue: Heavy Fort) / Epic Blademark Docent
Cloak: Cloak of the Wolf / RAD II 150 SP
Ring: EE Consuming Darkness (Green: 16 PRR)
Ring: Seal of Dun’Ro’Bar +2 iCon, Stunning 10
Boots: EE Goatskins Fortification 115% (Green: Good luck Colorless: +2 iCha)
Gloves: EE Backstabers (Yellow: Con 8)
Belt: Ogre Power 10 False Life 45
Weapons: eSoS (Colorless: +11 Repair, Red: Reconstruction 138),

First: thanks for the epic enhancements, most appreciated.
In gear section, what is GoTIB, in Black dragon +3 iStr, (Green: 250 SP, Yellow: GoTIB)? seems to be giving a +1 all stats... me want :)

Jeromio
01-23-2014, 02:11 AM
First: thanks for the epic enhancements, most appreciated.
In gear section, what is GoTIB, in Black dragon +3 iStr, (Green: 250 SP, Yellow: GoTIB)? seems to be giving a +1 all stats... me want :)

That would most probably be Globe of True Imperial Blood: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Globe_of_True_Imperial_Blood

Choopak
01-23-2014, 03:46 AM
That would most probably be Globe of True Imperial Blood: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Globe_of_True_Imperial_Blood

Haaaaa many thanks

Orin2
01-23-2014, 02:21 PM
Hello, after coming back to the game just after the AP conversion, and playing around with a gimp build... or two, my guild leader(or guild officer at any rate) convinced me to build an uber toon for getting gear from EE content. And gave me the website adress for this forum. This really gimp toon I'm playing got 2 of the Raider boxes and being the impatent sort that i am, I just grabed TWO 'Tinah, Sword of the Sea' from them, to use when she got to level 23. She only has 1 fighter(soon to be 2) past lives and I will be epic tr'ing her and then Iconic heroic tr'ing her into the Cetus Bladeforged build.

I do not have much time to play, 1-2 hours/day and only Sunday off. On the up side I have no life and game when i can :P So grinding for an eSoS or Antique Axe will take some time.

My question is: Since I already have 2 of those longswords (Tinah) would going 2-Wep. fighting instead of 2-hand fighting work with this build as I have little time for grinding?

PLEESE NOTE!: When I do get an eSOS/Anteque Axe I will be switcing to 2-Hand. Fighting :))

Sorry for the rambling post. You can blame Bosleysbacon on the Cannith server :D

EDIT: I put in the names of the swords i got and guess I should sum up what I rreally want to know

Will using 2-Hand. Fightin with 2 Tinah's: 2.5(1d10)/x2 crit:19-20 (base damage,mult,and crit) still be ubber enough for soloing, or at least kicking ass with friends in EE content?

DrawingGuy
01-24-2014, 03:01 AM
I've been plugging away fighter lives to boost my Monk's Quivering Palm... and if the proposed QP nerf goes through, it will slap it to uselessness. So I've been thinking of going to a 6 Monk / 12 Fighter / 2 Pally that I've had planned since U19 beta, and decided to pass over what other people thought of. Your build fits pretty nicely into what I had, though I hadn't thought of hybriding into ranged. I have rarely found times where I wished I had a powerful range option; carrying a few appropriate shurikens for pillars/crystals/flying dragons for the small percentage of the time I need them has been enough. I do look forward to seeing a few of your videos to learn how having both generally helps (instead of the classic "oh I hit 40k in a Fury crit" SS).

I do, however, have some suggestions for your enhancements that I wonder if you tried (or could try). I personally love No Mercy as it is a major DPS boost on the targets you stun, and if you have a blue bar tossing mass holds, it's love. Luckily you can fit it with what I find acceptable tradeoffs: Dropping Bladeforged Improved Power Attack and Weapon Attachment frees up 7 points. Dropping one level of tactics from Kensei (because really this build can afford to) gives another two. By placing those 9 points into acrobatics, agility, ability stat, and a dump into subtlety or a point off agility/acrobatics to get an Elemental Ki strike - leaving 4 points for No Mercy (20% damage on helpless targets). Unfortunately it's not possible to get all 3 stacks without sacrificing Divine Might or Power of the Forge, which both are obviously superior to 10% helpless damage. But giving up 3 damage, negative 3 attack (a boon on a build you say already struggles with attack on bow), and weapon attachment that you have to fiddle with every time you use a scroll... I see the changes as nothing but a win.

Hopefully that helps you. Would also like your opinion of dodge feats vs ranged feats. I realize when you're blitzing the dodge is moot as it's current bugged and capped, but I could see it as a big survivability boost when running Fury. The remaining two feats would obviously go to GTH and whatever else floats your boat like Greater Specialization.

Sokól
01-24-2014, 08:14 AM
Hello, after coming back to the game just after the AP conversion, and playing around with a gimp build... or two, my guild leader(or guild officer at any rate) convinced me to build an uber toon for getting gear from EE content. And gave me the website adress for this forum. This really gimp toon I'm playing got 2 of the Raider boxes and being the impatent sort that i am, I just grabed TWO 'Tinah, Sword of the Sea' from them, to use when she got to level 23. She only has 1 fighter(soon to be 2) past lives and I will be epic tr'ing her and then Iconic heroic tr'ing her into the Cetus Bladeforged build.

I do not have much time to play, 1-2 hours/day and only Sunday off. On the up side I have no life and game when i can :P So grinding for an eSoS or Antique Axe will take some time.

My question is: Since I already have 2 of those longswords (Tinah) would going 2-Wep. fighting instead of 2-hand fighting work with this build as I have little time for grinding?

PLEESE NOTE!: When I do get an eSOS/Anteque Axe I will be switcing to 2-Hand. Fighting :))

Sorry for the rambling post. You can blame Bosleysbacon on the Cannith server :D

EDIT: I put in the names of the swords i got and guess I should sum up what I rreally want to know

Will using 2-Hand. Fightin with 2 Tinah's: 2.5(1d10)/x2 crit:19-20 (base damage,mult,and crit) still be ubber enough for soloing, or at least kicking ass with friends in EE content?

Dude if you had taken Cleaver and Pinion you would be set, I rate Tinah as 1 of the worst weapons from that raid/box but if you want a TWF build check out this 1 might also be easier for you to adjust to https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433763-14-ranger-4-pali-2-fighter-Bladeforged?p=5217158#post5217158

Crann
01-24-2014, 08:21 AM
The +5 stacking racial seeker really adds to dps...I don't UMD tenser's (like Cetus does) so the extra seeker on the eSOS makes a big difference...will look into Ninja Poison

Why would you not use Tenser's? I can understand the conflict with Weapon Attachment, but for 105 of the 180 seconds in the WA cooldown, you can also have Tenser's running. What am I missing?

Cetus
01-24-2014, 10:04 AM
I've been plugging away fighter lives to boost my Monk's Quivering Palm... and if the proposed QP nerf goes through, it will slap it to uselessness. So I've been thinking of going to a 6 Monk / 12 Fighter / 2 Pally that I've had planned since U19 beta, and decided to pass over what other people thought of. Your build fits pretty nicely into what I had, though I hadn't thought of hybriding into ranged. I have rarely found times where I wished I had a powerful range option; carrying a few appropriate shurikens for pillars/crystals/flying dragons for the small percentage of the time I need them has been enough. I do look forward to seeing a few of your videos to learn how having both generally helps (instead of the classic "oh I hit 40k in a Fury crit" SS).

I do, however, have some suggestions for your enhancements that I wonder if you tried (or could try). I personally love No Mercy as it is a major DPS boost on the targets you stun, and if you have a blue bar tossing mass holds, it's love. Luckily you can fit it with what I find acceptable tradeoffs: Dropping Bladeforged Improved Power Attack and Weapon Attachment frees up 7 points. Dropping one level of tactics from Kensei (because really this build can afford to) gives another two. By placing those 9 points into acrobatics, agility, ability stat, and a dump into subtlety or a point off agility/acrobatics to get an Elemental Ki strike - leaving 4 points for No Mercy (20% damage on helpless targets). Unfortunately it's not possible to get all 3 stacks without sacrificing Divine Might or Power of the Forge, which both are obviously superior to 10% helpless damage. But giving up 3 damage, negative 3 attack (a boon on a build you say already struggles with attack on bow), and weapon attachment that you have to fiddle with every time you use a scroll... I see the changes as nothing but a win.

Hopefully that helps you. Would also like your opinion of dodge feats vs ranged feats. I realize when you're blitzing the dodge is moot as it's current bugged and capped, but I could see it as a big survivability boost when running Fury. The remaining two feats would obviously go to GTH and whatever else floats your boat like Greater Specialization.

All decent suggestions, but not my preference.

Losing warforged power attack is 6 damage - and as I value my red named dps mor ethan trash damage, I wouldn't make that switch.

Ninja Spy helpless damage is merely higher damage numbers, trash gets sliced through so quick already it doesn't really add much utility to the build.

If trash has significantly higher HP in the new stuff then the extra helpless damage will be useful, until then - meh, I'm fine with dreadnaught 50% and sense weakness, the ninja spy damage is overkill.

I already lost weapon attachment in the meantime and increased my tactic DC, I value my tactics very much, and prefer not to lose it over extra helpless damage just to see bigger numbers.

Dodge:

Again, this builds primary purpose is, for the most part, DPS. Ranged adds a significant DPS boost when distance is needed or more convenient - the saves, current dodge, and shadow fade coupled with recon makes losing ranged in favor of dodge a pretty bad decision in my opinion.

Orin2
01-24-2014, 10:38 AM
Dude if you had taken Cleaver and Pinion you would be set, I rate Tinah as 1 of the worst weapons from that raid/box but if you want a TWF build check out this 1 might also be easier for you to adjust to https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/433763-14-ranger-4-pali-2-fighter-Bladeforged?p=5217158#post5217158

Ya this ain't the first time my Impatience has bitten me in the ass. And it more then likely won't be the last :P
Thanks for link but my brother pointed me to the Canneth Axe that I can use till I can get the cleaver. It's not the best but it will do till I ger better. And with my time limitation that might be a while. :(

painkiller3
01-24-2014, 03:01 PM
Why would you not use Tenser's? I can understand the conflict with Weapon Attachment, but for 105 of the 180 seconds in the WA cooldown, you can also have Tenser's running. What am I missing?

You're not missing anything...i'm missing the UMD :)

Hawkwier
01-25-2014, 03:13 AM
Well pal6 is good for 2 things: easy and early access to divine might, AND bladesworn transformation...
I did a simulation of the build (F8/P6/M6) on character builder... pretty impressive

Thanks for the replies folks.

Im leaning towards 6P variant based on the above...

I think BST> POTF, plus POTF is psionic which I can get a chunk of from Titans grips, whilst BST is profane which I think is harder to get.

Then it comes down to 3 less feats vs a twist slot and an extra (exalted) smite and a couple of L1 spells. Feats would be good but I don't think critical. No completionist as 1st life.

Also I think P6 opens up divine ED sphere a bit earlier. Minor but helpful on 1st life....

Ta again! :)

Cetus
01-25-2014, 09:46 AM
Thanks for the replies folks.

I think BST> POTF, plus POTF is psionic which I can get a chunk of from Titans grips, whilst BST is profane which I think is harder to get.





Huh? I'm assuming you are comparing BST with Power surge? Since you mentioned psionic, power of the forge is a damage boost.

Anyway, BST is kinda trash in my opinion. It has a gigantic 10 minute cooldown, and you only get to experience a fraction of it.

On top of that, that fraction when you do experience it isn't even that nice - its 3 extra profane strength and 4 damage. And by going 6 pally you'll lose 4 levels of monk - which means losing ninja poison, fists of iron, shadow fade, sneak attack die, and 2 feats. Horrible decision actually.

Titan grip is nothing but a talking point, its practical utility is near zero - its only 3 minutes of +6 str and they recharge 1 per shrine.

The one twist slot you save for divine might doesn't compensate for all that you lose from monk. Especially since you have the option of twisting out divine might in quests where you think 22-23 charges would be enough.

Andoris
01-25-2014, 08:13 PM
Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

Cetus
01-26-2014, 03:01 PM
Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

Did you include manyshot? And the time in takes to swap stances each and every time you switch weapons...=D

Andoris
01-26-2014, 05:13 PM
Did you include manyshot? And the time in takes to swap stances each and every time you switch weapons...=D

Nope.. just looked at Melee (for obvious reasons :-p ). As wind stance gets you nothing in a bow, that is a no brainer. Actually with the dps difference being as low as it is, in most cases it is better to be in Earth stance when in Melee also -- but I can see a few cases (assuming GM stances) where wind can be beneficial. Now in a ranged+melee build like yours, there is no room to slot in GM stances.. that is even tighter when you factor in completionist.

Just figured I would share a little analysis I did for myself with the wider community.

Hawkwier
01-27-2014, 08:38 AM
Huh? I'm assuming you are comparing BST with Power surge? Since you mentioned psionic, power of the forge is a damage boost.

Anyway, BST is kinda trash in my opinion. It has a gigantic 10 minute cooldown, and you only get to experience a fraction of it.

On top of that, that fraction when you do experience it isn't even that nice - its 3 extra profane strength and 4 damage. And by going 6 pally you'll lose 4 levels of monk - which means losing ninja poison, fists of iron, shadow fade, sneak attack die, and 2 feats. Horrible decision actually.

Titan grip is nothing but a talking point, its practical utility is near zero - its only 3 minutes of +6 str and they recharge 1 per shrine.

The one twist slot you save for divine might doesn't compensate for all that you lose from monk. Especially since you have the option of twisting out divine might in quests where you think 22-23 charges would be enough.

First-off, apologies - you have surmised correctly - I meant Power Surge, not Power of the Forge!

I'm not dropping any monk levels - the chioice here is between F12/M6/P2 and F8/M6/P6. I agree dropping monk levs, and all it's goodies would be a bad choice.

The cooldown on BST you pointed out is pertty awful, and has definitely provided pause for thought - I guess it comes down to, simplifying, choosing +4 damage more often with Power Surge, or instead choosing to have +9 damage a lot less often via combination of BST and Titan's clickie (= pretty much useful for end boss fights only, then...) I do have a pair of Titan's mitts on another toon, and do use 'em pretty much all the time for end-fights & mini-bosses. If I can clear trash easily enough without needing the +4 damage from Power Surge, then I might still give P6 a try, plus the loss of +4 damage might be compensaated for somewhat by earlier access to Divine Might...

Do you know, does BST recharge at shrines, or is it fixed at 10 minutes cooldown, nomatter what?

Siccan
01-28-2014, 05:13 AM
It's a very nice build. A person I was pugging with asked me to look at this before I go into my final life. The title is a bit egotistical but the build is very well thought out. Thanks for sharing :-) Happy Hunting -Musk

painkiller3
01-28-2014, 03:40 PM
It's a very nice build. A person I was pugging with asked me to look at this before I go into my final life. The title is a bit egotistical but the build is very well thought out. Thanks for sharing :-) Happy Hunting -Musk

Is it still egotistical if it's true???? :)

jskinner937
01-29-2014, 05:26 AM
All decent suggestions, but not my preference.

Losing warforged power attack is 6 damage - and as I value my red named dps mor ethan trash damage, I wouldn't make that switch.

Ninja Spy helpless damage is merely higher damage numbers, trash gets sliced through so quick already it doesn't really add much utility to the build.

If trash has significantly higher HP in the new stuff then the extra helpless damage will be useful, until then - meh, I'm fine with dreadnaught 50% and sense weakness, the ninja spy damage is overkill.

I already lost weapon attachment in the meantime and increased my tactic DC, I value my tactics very much, and prefer not to lose it over extra helpless damage just to see bigger numbers.

Dodge:

Again, this builds primary purpose is, for the most part, DPS. Ranged adds a significant DPS boost when distance is needed or more convenient - the saves, current dodge, and shadow fade coupled with recon makes losing ranged in favor of dodge a pretty bad decision in my opinion.

Cetus I thought that was the point of this build and your fleshy version....but I just don't get that you take FoL on thie bladeforged version other than maybe for use of Walk in the Sun. I personally prefer Fist of Darkness as it adds DPS and the Karmic Strike is terribly OP on a high crit profile toon. Heck it almost makes FoTW more attractive for soloing.

jskinner937
01-29-2014, 05:32 AM
Did a DPS comparison and between Grandmaster of Air and Earth -- obliviously earth stance has other benefits (PRR and Hitpoints), but this was just doing the math on a 10% doublestrike bonus vs +1 crit range on 19s and 20s.

On a 0% fortification mob Air stance wins by ~8% if not using a momentum swing, or ~4% if momentum swing is being used. If you factor in a high fortification mob (using LOB + 20% AP from black dragon armor), Air stance seems to be ~4% higher DPS in both cases (which somewhat surprised me).

If we drop down to Master Stances it is ~1.5-2% improvement in DPS with air stance on 0% fort mobs and about the same for high fortification mobs.

Not making any recommendation, just wanted to share the comparison. In general I think Earth stance is the way to go, however; if you can fit in grandmaster stances, there are situations when it would make sense to swap to Air stance for the added dps.

I would agree with this comparison if you are comparing a non-hasted earth stance with a wind stance (hasted or not...does not matter). I have tested this as well and earth definitely wins on the crit profile and make sure you are comparing eSoS to eSoS, or even Cleaver to Cleaver.

rrzaa80
01-29-2014, 11:01 AM
News has it that cetus has been permanently banned from the forums.

Too bad, these build threads promoted good discussion.

Andoris
01-29-2014, 11:14 AM
I would agree with this comparison if you are comparing a non-hasted earth stance with a wind stance (hasted or not...does not matter). I have tested this as well and earth definitely wins on the crit profile and make sure you are comparing eSoS to eSoS, or even Cleaver to Cleaver.

I used my build (posted in this thread) as the model. So yes, both are hasted (EE goatskins) and both are using an eSoS. I also factored in Momentum Swing (as broken out), OC, improved crit, Fists of Iron, Kensai and LD crit and damage improvements, as well as, 22 points of seeker (12 consuming darkness + 5 wolf cloak + 5 weapon attachment).

The numbers are close enough that I still run Earth most of the time (90%+) due to the other benefits (PRR & HP), but it did get me to put air stance on a hot key for those instances that it makes sense to push the dps a bit higher.

Now this all is based on using grandmaster stances --- if you are only using master stances the dps gain from wind stance is not worth bothering with imo.

Sithlordnamalk
01-31-2014, 08:39 AM
What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Ravand
02-03-2014, 03:51 PM
What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I also have this question. I went Pally levels 1-2, Monk 3-4, Fighter 5-16, and Monk 17-20 on Ron's Character Planner.

Manyshot requires a Dexterity of 17 (among other requirements).
Zen Archery requires a Wisdom of 13 (and a BAB of +1).

With the +5 Tomes not kicking in until level 19, how can a person back load those two feats to levels 19 or 20?

Ravand
02-03-2014, 04:26 PM
What order do you levelup to get all the feats? Just curious since lamannia is down. Any help is greatly appreciated.

OK, I figured it out. I am not a completionist, so I subbed GTHF (or Blinding Speed or Epic Reflexes) for the Completionist Feat. No promises on optimization (not a big deal on heroic levels 15-20), but here is a path:

Levels
Paladin (P): 1-2
Monk (M): 3-4, 16-18, 20
Fighter (F): 5-15, 19

1: Weapon Focus, Slashing
1P: Follower of Lord of Blades
3: Weapons Focus, Ranged
3M: Power Attack
4M: THF
5F: Cleave
6: Point Blank Shot
6F: Great Cleave
8F: ITHF
9: Weapon Spec., Slashing
10F: Improved Crit., Slashing
12: Greater Weapon Focus, Slashing
12F: Bow Strength
14F: Improved Crit., Ranged
15: Rapid Shot
16M: Monk Path
18: Stunning Blow
19F: Manyshot
20M: Zen Archery
21E: Overwhelming Critical
23: Master of Forms (Not an Epic Feat)
26ED: PTHF
27E: GTWF (Not an Epic Feat) or Blinding Speed or Epic Reflexes
28ED: PTWF

Have fun! Thank you Cetus for providing us with the build!

volaxis1
02-04-2014, 07:19 AM
12Ftr/6Mnk/2Fvs is also a good option for those who cant stomach pally. You get quicken and some other stuff, lose 5 on saves.

A HP breakdown would be nice, adding it via gear and 48Con I came to ~800, probably missed something.

Sithlordnamalk
02-06-2014, 09:08 AM
He fixed it thanks!

unbongwah
02-06-2014, 11:46 AM
12Ftr/6Mnk/2Fvs is also a good option for those who cant stomach pally. You get quicken and some other stuff, lose 5 on saves.
It's a lot more than that:

15/15/15 Divine Grace w/CHA 40
3/0/0 pal 2 base saves
18/15/15

VS

3/3/3 FvS 2 base saves
3/3/3 Angelic Resistance (saves vs magic)
6/6/6

So that's a net loss of 12/9/9 on saves vs magic, 15/12/12 to non-magic saves (traps etc.). You could spend 6 APs on Inflame to get the +4 bonus to saves to narrow the gap, but that's an action boost, not a persistent bonus.

The main upsides are Div Might is a lot cheaper from the WP tree, you don't need the Bane of Undeath Twist anymore, and you can take Quicken and a few other perks from WP (+10 PRR, Inflame, etc.).

Sokól
02-06-2014, 11:58 AM
It's a lot more than that:

15/15/15 Divine Grace w/CHA 40
3/0/0 pal 2 base saves
18/15/15

VS

3/3/3 FvS 2 base saves
3/3/3 Angelic Resistance (saves vs magic)
6/6/6

So that's a net loss of 12/9/9 on saves vs magic, 15/12/12 to non-magic saves (traps etc.). You could spend 6 APs on Inflame to get the +4 bonus to saves to narrow the gap, but that's an action boost, not a persistent bonus.

The main upsides are Div Might is a lot cheaper from the WP tree, you don't need the Bane of Undeath Twist anymore, and you can take Quicken and a few other perks from WP (+10 PRR, Inflame, etc.).

Quicken is huge on a BF and well worth it imo

unbongwah
02-06-2014, 12:34 PM
Quicken is huge on a BF and well worth it imo
No argument there, just pointing out losing Divine Grace is a bigger hit to saves than volaxis thinks.

Another option would be ftr 10 / monk 6 / pal 4: you lose a feat & Power Surge, so it's a bit of DPS / tactics loss; but you keep Div Grace, no longer need BoU Twist, and gain access to Quicken, as well as Div Sacrifice & Exalted Smite if you want.

Ravand
02-06-2014, 06:42 PM
I do believe that you are missing bow strength. Otherwise thanks for the breakdown man :)

Hey, thanks for catching that! I made a mistake at level 12 with the Fighter Bonus Feat, and took "Greater Weapon Focus, Slashing" instead of Bow Strength. I am fixing my original post, and ask you delete my mistake so no one mistakenly uses it.

You can quote my post here to preserve my mistake for posterity. :D

Thanks again for catching it and letting us all know.

Edit: Aaaaand I made another mistake. Thank you Encair and Unbongwah. Along with Sithlordnamalk, all three of you have been credited in the edit. Let's hope I got it right this time!

Wipey
02-07-2014, 07:09 AM
Hey, thanks for catching that! I made a mistake at level 12 with the Fighter Bonus Feat, and took "Greater Weapon Focus, Slashing" instead of Bow Strength. I am fixing my original post, and ask you delete my mistake so no one mistakenly uses it.

Now you are missing that Greater Focus Slashing, duh.

unbongwah
02-07-2014, 07:35 AM
I made a mistake at level 12 with the Fighter Bonus Feat, and took "Greater Weapon Focus, Slashing" instead of Bow Strength.
GWF is a pre-req for Keen Edge & One w/Blade; w/out it, this build is no longer centered. Unfortunately, feats are really tight on this build; I think the only ones which can be sacrificed are Stunning Blow, GTHF, or one of the Imp Crits.

pesch1991
02-07-2014, 08:23 AM
Nice Build ! But why Wont you take first blood (feat) instead of perfect thf it provides a Lot more dps actually one more Thing as of update 21 : Epic Feats: First Blood - The damage dealt by First Blood has been increased from 5-100 to 50-300.

Takllin
02-07-2014, 08:36 AM
Nice Build ! But why Wont you take first blood (feat) instead of perfect thf it provides a Lot more dps actually one more Thing as of update 21 : Epic Feats: First Blood - The damage dealt by First Blood has been increased from 5-100 to 50-300.

It is still only the first 10% of an opponents HP, which unless its a boss is just one swing of a sword. And even for bosses, unless you are soloing they go down fairly quick.

10% more GB is much more DPS.

pesch1991
02-07-2014, 08:39 AM
It is still only the first 10% of an opponents HP, which unless its a boss is just one swing of a sword. And even for bosses, unless you are soloing they go down fairly quick.

10% more GB is much more DPS.

No... Go Test it for Yourself please its much more powerful

Sokól
02-07-2014, 08:41 AM
No argument there, just pointing out losing Divine Grace is a bigger hit to saves than volaxis thinks.

Another option would be ftr 10 / monk 6 / pal 4: you lose a feat & Power Surge, so it's a bit of DPS / tactics loss; but you keep Div Grace, no longer need BoU Twist, and gain access to Quicken, as well as Div Sacrifice & Exalted Smite if you want.

Not a bad option imo the ability to heal quick is an underestimated dps, for new players with few past lives that will have trouble getting a good stunning blow might just be a better option!

Takllin
02-07-2014, 08:56 AM
No... Go Test it for Yourself please its much more powerful

This extra damage won't trigger twice within three seconds.

It only triggers once every three seconds...

10% more GB damage is more sustained DPS, especially since you get GB damage with all cleave animations.

pesch1991
02-07-2014, 09:02 AM
This extra damage won't trigger twice within three seconds.

It only triggers once every three seconds...

10% more GB damage is more sustained DPS, especially since you get GB damage with all cleave animations.

10% Gb dmg is a joke bear in mind that the dmg is increased Through helplessness with the improved Version of first blood and lets say +100% dmg on helpless Targets it will be close to disintergrate dmg thats no joke

kierg10
02-07-2014, 10:51 AM
10% Gb dmg is a joke bear in mind that the dmg is increased Through helplessness with the improved Version of first blood and lets say +100% dmg on helpless Targets it will be close to disintergrate dmg thats no joke

glancing blows last life on my character were dealing about 60-80 damage on normal hits without pTHF while being undergeared, so 10% more GB damage could be another 10 damage on NORMAL HITS, which will increase a lot on cleaves (I have seen cleaves deal glancing blow damage of 150+, not even while blitzing) an average of 175 damage every three seconds is **** compared to pTHF.

While blitzing your glancing blows can hit for 400 or more, so ya lol @ 175 avg damage every 3 seconds XD

Ravand
02-07-2014, 12:55 PM
GWF is a pre-req for Keen Edge & One w/Blade; w/out it, this build is no longer centered. Unfortunately, feats are really tight on this build; I think the only ones which can be sacrificed are Stunning Blow, GTHF, or one of the Imp Crits.

Thanks for pointing this out; I made the correction in my original post. Since I do not have completionist, GTHF competes with Blinding Speed, Epic Reflexes, and stunning blow (to me, the improved crits are too important to mess with).

This begs the question: Of these four remaining feats, which is the best? I am thinking of ditching Stunning Blow (since it is only a single target, 6s stun with a 15s cool down), but since it is part of the original build (and everything else was so well thought out) was wondering what the community thinks?

pesch1991
02-07-2014, 02:38 PM
glancing blows last life on my character were dealing about 60-80 damage on normal hits without pTHF while being undergeared, so 10% more GB damage could be another 10 damage on NORMAL HITS, which will increase a lot on cleaves (I have seen cleaves deal glancing blow damage of 150+, not even while blitzing) an average of 175 damage every three seconds is **** compared to pTHF.

While blitzing your glancing blows can hit for 400 or more, so ya lol @ 175 avg damage every 3 seconds XD

Take gthf + first blood and you win anyway But you Seem to underestimate first blood helplessness isnt the only Thing that increased its dmg its like giving up on disintergrate every 3 sec

Andoris
02-07-2014, 10:15 PM
Thanks for pointing this out; I made the correction in my original post. Since I do not have completionist, GTHF competes with Blinding Speed, Epic Reflexes, and stunning blow (to me, the improved crits are too important to mess with).

This begs the question: Of these four remaining feats, which is the best? I am thinking of ditching Stunning Blow (since it is only a single target, 6s stun with a 15s cool down), but since it is part of the original build (and everything else was so well thought out) was wondering what the community thinks?

Do not drop stunning blow, it is hands down, one of the most important feats in the build. Why do you think the build is focused on getting Str as high as it is.. primary reason, good tactics. Drop stunning blow and you might as well roll up something else.

Andoris
02-07-2014, 10:21 PM
Take gthf + first blood and you win anyway But you Seem to underestimate first blood helplessness isnt the only Thing that increased its dmg its like giving up on disintergrate every 3 sec

Either you really haven't played the build or you are trolling..

Now you are recommending we give up 5% double strike for 175 damage every 3 sec (on the first 10% of a mobs hp) -- 5% double strike on a build that will hit for 500-1200+ per swing while not blitzing and 3k-12k+ per swing in blitz.

Please stop giving out really bad advice.

pesch1991
02-07-2014, 10:59 PM
Either you really haven't played the build or you are trolling..

Now you are recommending we give up 5% double strike for 175 damage every 3 sec (on the first 10% of a mobs hp) -- 5% double strike on a build that will hit for 500-1200+ per swing while not blitzing and 3k-12k+ per swing in blitz.

Please stop giving out really bad advice.

What are you Talking about ? Learn how to read i was stating that replacing perfect thf with first blood will Provide more dps because 10% glancing blow dmg < ~200 untyped dmg (Even More with helplessness) i have been a melee for a Long Time and i dont Need you lecturing me and i didnt Mention doublestrike at all. Oh by the Way it Seems that you didnt Even use the feat for once claming it would only work for the first X% of hp how naive ^^

LavidDynch
02-07-2014, 11:05 PM
What are you Talking about ? Learn how to read i was stating that replacing perfect thf with first blood will Provide more dps because 10% glancing blow dmg < ~200 untyped dmg (Even More with helplessness) i have been a melee for a Long Time and i dont Need you lecturing me and i didnt Mention doublestrike at all.

Too lazy with no character tool on Lamannia, does this apply to all mobs when you cleave?

Takllin
02-07-2014, 11:39 PM
What are you Talking about ? Learn how to read i was stating that replacing perfect thf with first blood will Provide more dps because 10% glancing blow dmg < ~200 untyped dmg (Even More with helplessness) i have been a melee for a Long Time and i dont Need you lecturing me and i didnt Mention doublestrike at all. Oh by the Way it Seems that you didnt Even use the feat for once claming it would only work for the first X% of hp how naive ^^

It says it only works while the enemy is over 90% HP and it is also once every three seconds. Which means on trash it will only ever proc once, and against bosses you may get 3-5 uses out of it.

Or you could get another 10-15 damage 3 out of every 4 attacks, not including cleaves which would increase that number.

LavidDynch
02-08-2014, 12:57 AM
It says it only works while the enemy is over 90% HP and it is also once every three seconds. Which means on trash it will only ever proc once, and against bosses you may get 3-5 uses out of it.

Or you could get another 10-15 damage 3 out of every 4 attacks, not including cleaves which would increase that number.

What it says and what it does are completely different things in DDO.

pesch1991
02-08-2014, 04:45 AM
first blood is the Only Hope for us melees and i dont want them to change that fact have a nice Day

Takllin
02-08-2014, 09:06 AM
What it says and what it does are completely different things in DDO.

Yeah I;ve been playing long enough to realize this...

If it works for the entirety of an opponents HP then yeah it's better, but for just the first 10%...I don't see it.

And we all know how building around exploits/broken feats works out...

pesch1991
02-08-2014, 12:55 PM
Yeah I;ve been playing long enough to realize this...

If it works for the entirety of an opponents HP then yeah it's better, but for just the first 10%...I don't see it.

And we all know how building around exploits/broken feats works out...

Its ok dude we Understand no need to discuss this any longer

Nightmanis
02-10-2014, 03:12 PM
Its ok dude we Understand no need to discuss this any longer

You sound like a dude I got into a little Kerfluffel with about 2 months ago, saying the base damage of a weapon was the only stat you needed to look at on a weapon, regardless of everything else and that only rapiers got the 15-20 crit range.

First Blood Passive Duration: Permanent. Melee weapons and unarmed attacks deal 5d20 extra untyped damage against enemies with 90% or more HP. This extra damage won't trigger twice within three seconds.

Bolded for emphasis.

If this effect just keeps working regardless of enemy hp, then it's bugged and will eventually be fixed. AKA not worth taking.

Ravand
02-10-2014, 04:39 PM
Do not drop stunning blow, it is hands down, one of the most important feats in the build. Why do you think the build is focused on getting Str as high as it is.. primary reason, good tactics. Drop stunning blow and you might as well roll up something else.

Could you, or someone else, please explain this in more detail? I am being serious here, and not argumentative. I thought strength was high for damage bonuses (and to a lesser extent, to hit). Is the stunning blow situational, or is it hit the first mob you can every 15s with it? Does it work on orange or red names?

My understanding is Stunning Blow will only work against one trash (yellow named) mob for 6 seconds every 15s. Giving this up, I can select one of the following:

Blinding Speed (+15% melee attack speed, +1% Dodge, +1 to reflex saves, and +1 to hit);

or

Epic Reflexes (+2 reflex saves and rolling a 1 is not an automatic fail (the reflex saves at end game may not be high enough for this to be useful, I don't know);

or

GTHF (increases the damage of glancing blow attacks when wielding a two-handed weapon by an additional 10% and 3% chance for the BG to proc a weapon effect. With PTHF this will give you a 60% chance to score a glancing blow and a 19% chance for the BG to proc a weapon effect).

It seems to me Blinding Speed or GTHF would yield the most benefit because the toon is hitting more and killing the mobs faster. But I am asking because I would like to know not only what they best feat here is, but also *why* it is better than what is given up.

Thanks in advance!

unbongwah
02-10-2014, 05:03 PM
Stunning Blow renders a target helpless (http://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless), which is an automatic +50% to all dmg received (except glancing blows); Sense Weakness is an extra +30% dmg. EE mobs have a lot of HPs, so +80% dmg to trash mobs 40% of the time (6 secs outta 15 secs) is kind of a big deal. :)

Jasparion
02-10-2014, 05:11 PM
Stunning Blow renders a target helpless (http://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless), which is an automatic +50% to all dmg received (except glancing blows); Sense Weakness is an extra +30% dmg. EE mobs have a lot of HPs, so +80% dmg to trash mobs 40% of the time (6 secs outta 15 secs) is kind of a big deal. :)

I decided to try out this build and have dropped Stunning Blow for Magical Training, because while levelling in Elite dungeons I could barely even manage to stun Casters, and Magical Training means 3 more Reconstructs per rest.

If I enjoy the build I will end up using an LR and fix the feats once my stats improve with better gear, but so far, 3 x Reconstruct > Stunning Blow. An LR would also mean that I dont need to buy both Adept of Forms and Master of Forms - I will get Adept for free at my 6th Monk level.

I think this is something people need to consider. What works great at Epic level may not be that good while levelling. And even at Epic level, it may not be great until you reach the cap.

Ravand
02-10-2014, 07:17 PM
Stunning Blow renders a target helpless (http://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless), which is an automatic +50% to all dmg received (except glancing blows); Sense Weakness is an extra +30% dmg. EE mobs have a lot of HPs, so +80% dmg to trash mobs 40% of the time (6 secs outta 15 secs) is kind of a big deal. :)

It is indeed "kind of a big deal." I was looking at from a single-target CC perspective, rather than a DPS perspective, and your explanation changed that for me. Thank you!

Eth
02-11-2014, 03:11 AM
It is indeed "kind of a big deal." I was looking at from a single-target CC perspective, rather than a DPS perspective, and your explanation changed that for me. Thank you!

With an action boost active the tier 5 LD ability gives you another 50% against helpless mobs.
So 130% extra damage (50base+30sense weakness+50LD).

Postumus
02-16-2014, 05:10 AM
-Weapon Attachment*

23 AP

*: This enhancement's usefulness is debatable. I use it for 33% of the time, since casting a tensers scroll is more useful than the attachment - the dps is about the same from the +4 str, but it also adds other bonuses.


The part in bold is incorrect. .5W increase from WA for something like Cleaver is 1d8 which averages about 4.5 damage per swing. That is more than twice as good as the damage per swing added for +4 str.

For Pinion, Needle, Nightmare, or Breach WA adds 1d6 which would be an average of 3.5 per shot - again nearly twice as good as +4 str.

But it does boil down to whether you want more dps, or +2 to reflex saves and a few more HPs and AC.

zwiebelring
02-16-2014, 05:22 AM
I ignore WA, since I switch weapons many times or use scrolls. Dps comes from Blitz and STR boosts.

goodspeed
02-16-2014, 06:24 AM
GWF is a pre-req for Keen Edge & One w/Blade; w/out it, this build is no longer centered. Unfortunately, feats are really tight on this build; I think the only ones which can be sacrificed are Stunning Blow, GTHF, or one of the Imp Crits.

Id probably give up the gthf. Hell if ya wanted to you could even make it up with the epic destiny feat, or I think theirs some enhancment somewheres that does the same thing.

PrimalConcreteSledge
02-16-2014, 06:44 AM
Id probably give up the gthf. Hell if ya wanted to you could even make it up with the epic destiny feat, or I think theirs some enhancment somewheres that does the same thing.

Gthf gives an additional glancing blow in the attack sequence. Making it 3/4 instead of 2/4. No enhancement or epic feat adds that.

unbongwah
02-16-2014, 10:06 AM
Gthf gives an additional glancing blow in the attack sequence. Making it 3/4 instead of 2/4. No enhancement or epic feat adds that.
Unbridled Fury provides the full THF chain while active, but it's not a continuous buff. For someone w/out Completionist, I would swap that for GTHF in the OP's build.

JOTMON
02-16-2014, 10:09 AM
Cetus would like to respond to posts and PM's, but after almost 8 years and 3,496 posts he has attained his 10 infraction cap and has thus been booted from posting on the forums permanently.

So say the rules...
https://www.ddo.com/en/community/community-guidelines

Infractions never expire and lead to permanent bans as follows:
• Free to Play accounts: 2 infractions.
• VIP and Premium Accounts: 10 Infractions.


..so no more Cetus posts on DDO forums.. RIP...


ps:
note to dev .. don't shoot the messenger...
this is an informational post letting those know who were waiting for responses from Cetus..
It is in no way a Discussion of Disciplinary or Moderations Actions as that may be considered a infractionable/bannable offense..



Bah ... redact this post.... some nub let Cetus back on the forums.

Noctus
02-16-2014, 03:50 PM
Infractions never expire and lead to permanent bans as follows:
• Free to Play accounts: 2 infractions.
• VIP and Premium Accounts: 10 Infractions.

This is BS!

They should go down like 1x/year.

Without expireing longtime active posters get shafted in the longer run, even if they are very civil.

H8Tank
02-16-2014, 04:35 PM
I thought I saw him with an Ubber new build on a guild or fan site. I can't find it now. Anyone know if he is active anywhere else?

Postumus
02-16-2014, 04:38 PM
I ignore WA, since I switch weapons many times or use scrolls. Dps comes from Blitz and STR boosts.


Switching frequently is the main reason I wouldn't use it. If I was going for max DPS on a boss or something, I would use it and ignore the Tenser's.

zwiebelring
02-16-2014, 06:06 PM
I used it if I wore planar set. But for maximum efficency I needed to craft more greensteel accesoires but that's too tedious for me, so I switched to esos and live with that little flaw in dps.

OsharanToo
02-17-2014, 09:34 PM
I thought I saw him with an Ubber new build on a guild or fan site. I can't find it now. Anyone know if he is active anywhere else?

Yes he is, but I can't give you a link or anything. I've been told mentioning or linking that particular fan site on the DDO forums is also an infractible/bannable offense.

Osharan_Tregarth
02-17-2014, 09:51 PM
Yes he is, but I can't give you a link or anything. I've been told mentioning or linking that particular fan site on the DDO forums is also an infractible/bannable offense.

OG. I really wish the DDO Forums would remember who the heck I am.

Cetus
02-18-2014, 06:40 PM
Hey folks =D




The part in bold is incorrect. .5W increase from WA for something like Cleaver is 1d8 which averages about 4.5 damage per swing. That is more than twice as good as the damage per swing added for +4 str.

For Pinion, Needle, Nightmare, or Breach WA adds 1d6 which would be an average of 3.5 per shot - again nearly twice as good as +4 str.

But it does boil down to whether you want more dps, or +2 to reflex saves and a few more HPs and AC.

In the opening post I outlined a build with a specific gearset, a member of which was the ESOS. So, for that weapon my assessment for weapons attachment remains correct.

1d6 = 3.5 average damage vs +4 str = 3 dmg

If you want to consider this enhancement in the context of a different weapon, you can - however, its misleading to call the statement in bold incorrect since ESOS is the weapon I'm talking about.

You do bring up a good point however, for those who choose to use an alternate weapon that has a higher base damage, weapon attachment may be more useful from a purely DPS standpoint (tactics, hitpoints, and reflex/fort saves are still aspects of tensers that need to be weighed however).

If extra AP are spent to gain the additional seeker bonus from WA, then it begins to surpass the DPS benefit of tensers.

NaturalHazard
02-18-2014, 09:38 PM
Wb

Nodoze
02-21-2014, 02:21 PM
Cetus, Did you ever try the 2 Fvs or 2 Cleric splash on the BF to see if you liked it more? From memory in the human thread you were thinking that the lower saves may still be decent and offset by BF immunities such that it may be worth it for higher DPS.

Cetus
02-22-2014, 09:14 AM
Cetus, Did you ever try the 2 Fvs or 2 Cleric splash on the BF to see if you liked it more? From memory in the human thread you were thinking that the lower saves may still be decent and offset by BF immunities such that it may be worth it for higher DPS.

I already tried it on lamaland - it takes forever to get the vulnerable stack to 20 and an electric imbue archer/vulnerable WW weapon/electric sorc will get the stack much quicker anyway.

2 pally still wins

Nodoze
02-27-2014, 12:48 PM
I already tried it on lamaland - it takes forever to get the vulnerable stack to 20 and an electric imbue archer/vulnerable WW weapon/electric sorc will get the stack much quicker anyway.

2 pally still winsIf you go WarPriest & are willing/able to swap weapons briefly you can get the Vulnerable stacks to max at 20 in as fast as 17 seconds beating any of them (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434030-The-plus-100-50-damage-builds?p=5266719&viewfull=1#post5266719)...

Technically I haven't seen a single AA actually get Vulnerable stacks to 20 let alone keep them at 20 stacks though a Monkcher should be able to at least get them to 20 (though maybe not keep them there).

An Air Savant can get it there slower in many cases but may have mana issues keeping it indefinitely and may not be able to at all on the Truthful One considering the Truthful One is immune to electricity.

The WarPriest splash should be able to get at least 15% more sustained DPS over the Paladin version on any sustained fight on a Boss where it matters (not counting trash). After those first 17 seconds you should be getting ~+18% damage regardless of whatever weapon(s) you use from that point forward (except where you roll a 1 on your Smite Weakness which, coupled with the weapon swap/stack-build-up/re-swap, is why I rounded it down to 15% to be conservative/realistic)...

Cetus
02-28-2014, 12:29 AM
If you go WarPriest & are willing/able to swap weapons briefly you can get the Vulnerable stacks to max at 20 in as fast as 17 seconds beating any of them (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434030-The-plus-100-50-damage-builds?p=5266719&viewfull=1#post5266719)...

Technically I haven't seen a single AA actually get Vulnerable stacks to 20 let alone keep them at 20 stacks though a Monkcher should be able to at least get them to 20 (though maybe not keep them there).

An Air Savant can get it there slower in many cases but may have mana issues keeping it indefinitely and may not be able to at all on the Truthful One considering the Truthful One is immune to electricity.

The WarPriest splash should be able to get at least 15% more sustained DPS over the Paladin version on any sustained fight on a Boss where it matters (not counting trash). After those first 17 seconds you should be getting ~+18% damage regardless of whatever weapon(s) you use from that point forward (except where you roll a 1 on your Smite Weakness which, coupled with the weapon swap/stack-build-up/re-swap, is why I rounded it down to 15% to be conservative/realistic)...

In theory, with the frostbite blades swapped in, you'd probably dish out marginally better damage - and its marginal only because you have to make up for the rather substantial DPS loss by removing the ESOS briefly, and paying the opportunity cost of having to use smite asap. I don't like that you need to interrupt your more effective attacks (i.e., fists of iron, momentum swing, earth attacks) to keep refreshing the vulnerable stacks with the smite.

In practice, its a nightmare to micromanage your character like that - and for my purposes, someone in party will always contribute a vulnerable stack to bosses that matter. Its not worth losing all the pally perks imo.