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Micki
12-21-2013, 07:59 PM
Hi everyone. Alright, so my toon Cerge is currently a lvl 28 wf wizard with sorc past life. My plan with this toon was to TR every life into a different class and run a few epic raids to test out the class. As I play 5 toons every week, progressing a single toon as been rather slow. Anywho. I was going to do warforged or possibly bladeforged every life, but it was suggested to me that a wf bard will just be incredibly gimp, so I'd be better off making a fleshy. I was thinking of doing 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2 fighter, manyshot melee, but my suggestion has been getting negative feedback from the ppl I've spoken to. Someone suggested 8 bard/ 6 ranger/ 6 barbarian, and someone else 9 bard/ 8 cleric/ 3 druid.

I plan to ETR and get Colors of the queen, and then TR right after into my bard multiclass. I just need a build plan first. I wish to possibly lvl this character to 28 and ETR+TR again.

Thank you for any advice.

P.S. I've never played a bard or a ranger before, so this is new territory for me.

IBCrabin
12-21-2013, 09:47 PM
How do you plan to repair yourself if you play a WF bard? Bard uses positive spell power, not repair.

6 Ranger get you manyshot and the basics for bow use.

10 to 12 bard get you freedom of movement and dimension door spell.

2 to 4 other class for whatever you want.
Fighter for more feats
Rogue for trapping evasion
Druid if you if you want to play in wolf form
Favored Soul for divine might, spell point

What tree to put points into depends on what you want. Will take some experimenting
War enchanter for howl of the north
Spell singer for virtuoso
Deep wood stalker for positive spell power and exposing strike

Build the toon to run in Dreadnaught. Fate singer is not very efficient in quests.

There is also DDO wiki. look there and see what you can and can't do in those class and then use a planner to work out the AP numbers and leveling path.

Micki
12-22-2013, 03:17 AM
How do you plan to repair yourself if you play a WF bard? Bard uses positive spell power, not repair.

There is also DDO wiki. look there and see what you can and can't do in those class and then use a planner to work out the AP numbers and leveling path.

Thank you for your reply.

Well first off, I wasn't planning to repair, but put some thought into heal amp, and hopefully have enough to manage. He's got no armour except for docents, as he's been wf since I made him 1.5? years ago. But I guess I can find him some other armour semi easily.

Second, yes I know there is wiki. I also know that bards are usually support toons. I'd like to build a useful dps bard, and since I dont know what Im doing, I was hoping to get some build suggestions from someone who does. If I go the route of read and experiment, I'll likely end up with a gimpy toon I hate, which has happened before.

Micki
12-22-2013, 05:18 AM
Build the toon to run in Dreadnaught. Fate singer is not very efficient in quests.


Oh, and also, since I plan to ETR primal sphere, this build will need to gain that Karma back before next ETR, so if I do LD, it'll only be for select raids and ee's.

Micki
12-22-2013, 08:05 AM
Ok, looking at unbongwah's Barchers https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/431054-Revisiting-Bardchers-(U20)

Not sure if I want to go twf, though, hmm...

Micki
12-22-2013, 05:40 PM
I wanted a manyshot archer, so I looked at unbongwah's bardchers thread and I kind of like the 15 bard/ 4 ranger/ 1 fighter idea. I tried it out on the planner as a 3rd life build, and here's what mine looks like:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cerge
Level 28 Chaotic Good Elf Male
(1 Fighter \ 4 Ranger \ 15 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 565
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 25
Dexterity 17 21
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 10 13
Wisdom 8 11
Charisma 8 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 7 25
Bluff 2 28
Concentration 7 33
Diplomacy -1 8
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 8
Heal 1 31
Hide 3 13
Intimidate -1 8
Jump 3 23
Listen -1 10
Move Silently 3 13
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 3 29
Repair 0 9
Search 0 11
Spellcraft 0 9
Spot -1 10
Swim 3 15
Tumble 4 14
Use Magic Device 3 31

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Spell (1): Master's Touch


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Precision
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Sleep


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (2): Rage


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Mind Fog


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting




I have a friend who plays archers that use the bluff skill, so I decided to put points in bluff in the plan. I can't say that I would do things exactly like this live, and I'd still have to look at the enhancements, but this is a start. What do you think?

voodoogroves
12-22-2013, 07:16 PM
I'm not sure he's updated that recently.

Ranger 3 / Cleric 1 / Bard 16 is likely a much better choice in today's game.

IBCrabin
12-22-2013, 07:16 PM
How do you plan on playing this toon?

Melee 90% of the time and use bow during many shot? Or use bow 90% of the time?
Do you plan to use songs for crowd control or just for buffs? Do you plan to use bow for Crowd control with pin and otto or actual dps?

By having a play style in your head, you will get better feedback and narrow down on a build that will work for you. I cannot tell if and when you plan to melee or when you plan to use a bow. You have twf feats but no Improved critical: melee. Then you have Improved precise shot, but no Overwhelming critical, which works for both melee and range.

Micki
12-23-2013, 05:47 AM
I'm not sure he's updated that recently.

Ranger 3 / Cleric 1 / Bard 16 is likely a much better choice in today's game.

Ok? Care to explain?

Micki
12-23-2013, 05:51 AM
How do you plan on playing this toon?

Melee 90% of the time and use bow during many shot? Or use bow 90% of the time?
Do you plan to use songs for crowd control or just for buffs? Do you plan to use bow for Crowd control with pin and otto or actual dps?

By having a play style in your head, you will get better feedback and narrow down on a build that will work for you. I cannot tell if and when you plan to melee or when you plan to use a bow. You have twf feats but no Improved critical: melee. Then you have Improved precise shot, but no Overwhelming critical, which works for both melee and range.

Ok, ty.

My original idea was to do 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2 fighter, a melee with manyshot. Melee 90%, then use bow for manyshot. I have never played an archer, so I don't even know what I need to make it work, or if it will be any good at end game. I'll see what that would give me on the planning board.

No, originally bard spells/ songs would be for heals an buffs only, not for cc. I don't believe this toon will have the dc to do any cc, but in that build there wasn't really any better spells to pic, and at lower levels cc may still work a bit.

katz
12-23-2013, 07:36 AM
oooo. bards and archers in the same place... my favorite....


a few points:

a WF bard will most likely be mocked somewhat, but don't let someone else tell you how to play. if that's what you have the gear for, it can be made to work. (heck, i have a meleeing trapping HALFLING bard with almost 60 intimidate. i'm known for doing crazy **** and making it work). if you have bladeforged already, now *might* be a time to try them out (altho it will be expensive... :-/ cost you a +1 heart to remove first paladin level, an alignment change to change from lawful, and your +20 heart). you'd be *slightly* worse off in the positive healing regard than a standard warforged (-5% amp overall) BUT you get the reconstruct spell as an SLA in tier 2 of your racial tree. wow that's powerful. also, bladeforged don't take a neg to cha like a WF does.

manyshot is indeed powerful, but a really good archer is feat/dex intense, and bards are a bit starved. even if you did go 6 ranger for the free manyshot, to be the best archer you could be would also require IPS (req 19 dex) and imp crit:ranged... altho i suppose these requirements aren't as important for a mostly melee toon interested in some single target burst DPS. with the changes in enhancements, it is no longer necessary to be an elf/half elf to be an AA... even 1 level of ranger would at least grant unlimited free arrows.

as for CC, most melee bards pretty much ignore CC... and use fascinate as the 'oh ****' button. even with a dumped charisma you can attain an EE capable fascinate DC with just a little effort.

8/6/6 is a good tough build... more a holdover from pre-enhancement pass... warchanter/kensai/frenzied berzerker. not very bardy, tho. you miss out on all the tasty higher level buffs. can easily get away with less barb levels now, and still get some nice benefits.

16/3/1 (bard/ranger/cleric) is powerful for a melee toon because it grants access to divine might right in tier 1 (Divine Might: You gain an Insight bonus to Strength equal to your Charisma Modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. (Activation Cost: 21/18/15 spell points.) even with a dumped (for a bard) charisma, that can still add up to a sizable strength boost. going with a greatsword (which, as a WF player, i'm sure you have XD) for melee would ease the feats so you could potentially still fit manyshot in there.

also going all the way to 16 bard (as opposed to stopping earlier) grants you access to an awesome single target CC - Otto's Irresistible Dance. stops everything short of a red-name cold for 15-25 seconds or so +/-.. NO SAVE. only thing you may have to worry about is spell pen (will be tough/impossible to stick it to drow/rakshasa/etc)

if my character planner would let me, i'd work up a BF bard just to see what it looked like. XD

as for EDs... if ya gotta run in fatesinger.. do what i do. twist momentum swing, and keep reign up AT ALL TIMES. reign is awesome (don't forget to turn on Harmonic Resonance like i sometimes do...derp) Echos of the Ancestors: Legendary Dreadnaught is nice. Turn of the Tide is a very nice ability.. unfortunately it gets neutered when facing bosses, but the BAB and bonus damage is still nice. and oddly enough... don't count out Dirge when facing a lot of mobs that you can handle (important. if you think you'll actually need to fascinate to handle the pack, don't Dirge) Dirge is a bit slow to sing, but once sung SLOWS everything around you, is a very minor DoT (annoyingly minor... bard enthusiasts are trying to convince Turbine to up it's power or let it use spell power or anything), AND counts as a fascinate effect, so it triggers "sharp note" from the spellsinger tree...granting YOU (and everyone around you) more damage. siren's song is the great instant-cast (sing) "oh ****" button that song of capering used to be... but it has a loooooooooong cooldown and doesn't work on bosses at all, not even oranges (this is a limit of fascinate also... )

voodoogroves
12-23-2013, 08:13 AM
Ok? Care to explain?

Katz kinda covered it. Note it works better with FVS 1 instead of Cleric 1, but not everyone has FVS.

Essentially, Ranger 3 gives rapid, twf, bow strength and access to the lower tiers of AA / DWS / Tempest which are nice.

Cleric / FVS 1 gives Divine Might, which is CHA to STR.

You need enough DEX with tomes to take GTWF, so back-work out whatever that is based on when you'll have the BAB. Enough CON not to embarrass yourself. Enough INT for the skills you want. Enough CHA for you to be comformtable with/without items when casting spells and the rest in STR with all levels into STR.

Leveling order is kinda totally up to you, though you can put off Ranger 3 until very near the end.

Your other feats then become something like: ITWF, GTWF, Improved Crit, Power Attack, Manyshot - then some combination of extend, quicken and empower healing likely

This works with ANY race, note, and not just elves due to the 3 ranger levels. I just did this build with Half-Orc, FWIW.

Micki
12-23-2013, 08:35 AM
oooo. bards and archers in the same place... my favorite....


a few points:

a WF bard will most likely be mocked somewhat, but don't let someone else tell you how to play. if that's what you have the gear for, it can be made to work. (heck, i have a meleeing trapping HALFLING bard with almost 60 intimidate. i'm known for doing crazy **** and making it work). if you have bladeforged already, now *might* be a time to try them out (altho it will be expensive... :-/ cost you a +1 heart to remove first paladin level, an alignment change to change from lawful, and your +20 heart). you'd be *slightly* worse off in the positive healing regard than a standard warforged (-5% amp overall) BUT you get the reconstruct spell as an SLA in tier 2 of your racial tree. wow that's powerful. also, bladeforged don't take a neg to cha like a WF does.

manyshot is indeed powerful, but a really good archer is feat/dex intense, and bards are a bit starved. even if you did go 6 ranger for the free manyshot, to be the best archer you could be would also require IPS (req 19 dex) and imp crit:ranged... altho i suppose these requirements aren't as important for a mostly melee toon interested in some single target burst DPS. with the changes in enhancements, it is no longer necessary to be an elf/half elf to be an AA... even 1 level of ranger would at least grant unlimited free arrows.

as for CC, most melee bards pretty much ignore CC... and use fascinate as the 'oh ****' button. even with a dumped charisma you can attain an EE capable fascinate DC with just a little effort.

8/6/6 is a good tough build... more a holdover from pre-enhancement pass... warchanter/kensai/frenzied berzerker. not very bardy, tho. you miss out on all the tasty higher level buffs. can easily get away with less barb levels now, and still get some nice benefits.

16/3/1 (bard/ranger/cleric) is powerful for a melee toon because it grants access to divine might right in tier 1 (Divine Might: You gain an Insight bonus to Strength equal to your Charisma Modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. (Activation Cost: 21/18/15 spell points.) even with a dumped (for a bard) charisma, that can still add up to a sizable strength boost. going with a greatsword (which, as a WF player, i'm sure you have XD) for melee would ease the feats so you could potentially still fit manyshot in there.

also going all the way to 16 bard (as opposed to stopping earlier) grants you access to an awesome single target CC - Otto's Irresistible Dance. stops everything short of a red-name cold for 15-25 seconds or so +/-.. NO SAVE. only thing you may have to worry about is spell pen (will be tough/impossible to stick it to drow/rakshasa/etc)

if my character planner would let me, i'd work up a BF bard just to see what it looked like. XD

as for EDs... if ya gotta run in fatesinger.. do what i do. twist momentum swing, and keep reign up AT ALL TIMES. reign is awesome (don't forget to turn on Harmonic Resonance like i sometimes do...derp) Echos of the Ancestors: Legendary Dreadnaught is nice. Turn of the Tide is a very nice ability.. unfortunately it gets neutered when facing bosses, but the BAB and bonus damage is still nice. and oddly enough... don't count out Dirge when facing a lot of mobs that you can handle (important. if you think you'll actually need to fascinate to handle the pack, don't Dirge) Dirge is a bit slow to sing, but once sung SLOWS everything around you, is a very minor DoT (annoyingly minor... bard enthusiasts are trying to convince Turbine to up it's power or let it use spell power or anything), AND counts as a fascinate effect, so it triggers "sharp note" from the spellsinger tree...granting YOU (and everyone around you) more damage. siren's song is the great instant-cast (sing) "oh ****" button that song of capering used to be... but it has a loooooooooong cooldown and doesn't work on bosses at all, not even oranges (this is a limit of fascinate also... )

Awesome reply. Thank you very much. I was actually thinking of the bladeforged, but thought it might be too much work. I believe I have a +1 heart somewhere and of course the +20.

Ok, let's say I make a bladeforged AA melee bard, like I was thinking. What was the 8/6/6 split you mentioned?

So 16 bard/ 3 ranger/ 1 cleric bladeforged might be worth a try?
I've been farming ED's and Karma this life, so my toon has 6 mil Karma in Arcane and Primal (I plan to ETR primal), and I have all ED's opened, so I can run in any ED. But since I need my Karma back in primal, I'll most likely run in one of those ED's.

Micki
12-23-2013, 08:36 AM
Katz kinda covered it. Note it works better with FVS 1 instead of Cleric 1, but not everyone has FVS.

Essentially, Ranger 3 gives rapid, twf, bow strength and access to the lower tiers of AA / DWS / Tempest which are nice.

Cleric / FVS 1 gives Divine Might, which is CHA to STR.

You need enough DEX with tomes to take GTWF, so back-work out whatever that is based on when you'll have the BAB. Enough CON not to embarrass yourself. Enough INT for the skills you want. Enough CHA for you to be comformtable with/without items when casting spells and the rest in STR with all levels into STR.

Leveling order is kinda totally up to you, though you can put off Ranger 3 until very near the end.

Your other feats then become something like: ITWF, GTWF, Improved Crit, Power Attack, Manyshot - then some combination of extend, quicken and empower healing likely

This works with ANY race, note, and not just elves due to the 3 ranger levels. I just did this build with Half-Orc, FWIW.

Thank you very much. I do have every class and race so I can do pretty much anything.

Micki
12-23-2013, 08:45 AM
Ok, so let's say I do the bladeforged thing with LR's and alignment change. I do 1 paladin, 14 ranger? LR to 15 ranger, change alignment, LR to my final build. If I do the 1 cleric/ 3 ranger/ 16 bard..

Could you give me some advice on what to take and when? Should I just look at the planner as if I was making a wf, since the bladeforged is technically a wf?

katz
12-23-2013, 09:06 AM
1 paladin 14 anything that doesn't require lawful... the other 14 levels don't really matter, as to get enough bard levels you'll need to use the +20 anyway.

personally, i wouldn't recommend the 8/6/6 anymore. it was a great tough build when you needed 6 levels to get to tier one on your preferred PrE, but now... you could do better. you could approximate the build using WF in the planner, just remember to swap the -2 neg to cha for the -2 neg to dex instead

mmm let me think let me think......

what tomes do you have available?

also... i read an earlier post wrong. (darn early mornings and lack of caffeine) you need to refill primal sphere? easy peasy. fury fury fury. RAWR

unbongwah
12-23-2013, 09:19 AM
Ranger 3 / Cleric 1 / Bard 16 is likely a much better choice in today's game.
Define "better."

Rgr 4 / ftr 1 gets you two extra feats: (Prec Shot & ftr bonus), extra action boost, and Ram's Might (+2 STR and +2 dmg, so effectively +6 STR).

Rgr 3 / ftr 1 trades Prec Shot & Ram's Might for lvl 6 spells (basically trading DPS for MCMW & OID).

Rgr 3 / cleric or FvS 1 gets you lvl 6 spells and Divine Might (note you need at least CHA 30 to outdo what Ram's Might & Insight +3 STR item gets you).

Rgr 4 / cleric or FvS 1 lets you have Ram's Might and Divine Might, but costs you a feat & extra action boost vs 1st build, lvl 6 spells vs the 2nd & 3rd.

Rgr 4 / bard 16 gets you Ram's Might, Prec Shot, and lvl 6 spells, but ofc gives up what the ftr/cleric/FvS splashes offer.

All of these builds gain access to at least lvl 3 core rgr enhs, like +10% offhand from Tempest and extra SA & Pos Spellpower from DWS. You could drop below bard 15, but that gives up Inspire Heroics & Inspire Excellence, and I really like both songs.

The drawback to BF, apart from all the LRing & alignment change you have to do, is -2 base DEX; that's gonna make it harder to hit base DEX pre-reqs for Manyshot, IPS, and CA, depending how much you wanna invest in archery.

Micki
12-23-2013, 09:44 AM
1 paladin 14 anything that doesn't require lawful... the other 14 levels don't really matter, as to get enough bard levels you'll need to use the +20 anyway.

personally, i wouldn't recommend the 8/6/6 anymore. it was a great tough build when you needed 6 levels to get to tier one on your preferred PrE, but now... you could do better. you could approximate the build using WF in the planner, just remember to swap the -2 neg to cha for the -2 neg to dex instead

mmm let me think let me think......

what tomes do you have available?

also... i read an earlier post wrong. (darn early mornings and lack of caffeine) you need to refill primal sphere? easy peasy. fury fury fury. RAWR

:) I have used all +3 and +5 con, at least. I can't remember now if he's used any +4's, but I think not.

I am feeling very confused, I want a dps bard that will be able to run some lower ee's, like Eveningstar without too much problems. I will TR again at 28, but maybe not right away, as I plan to TR another toon first and don't want to be leveling 2 at the same time.

katz
12-23-2013, 10:17 AM
i worked this up before you replied with tomes. yer good. i only accounted for +3 str and dex. you have that covered, so yer good


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Bladeforged
(3 Ranger \ 1 Cleric \ 16 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 406
Spell Points: 774
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 14 17
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 6 8
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 2 23
Bluff 2 11
Concentration 8 36
Diplomacy 2 11
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 11
Heal 2 27
Hide 2 11
Intimidate 2 11
Jump 3 16
Listen -2 7
Move Silently 2 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a 34
Repair -1 8
Search -1 8
Spellcraft -1 8
Spot -2 7
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble 3 12
Use Magic Device 2 34

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Lord of Blades
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection from Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Feather Fall


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)


Level 27 (Epic)


Level 28 (Epic)


HP/SP numbers are likely off a bit, i had to fudge the numbers a little. max perform, max concentrate, max UMD. can put points in balance and heal, or repair instead to amp your reconstruct instead of helping out all the hapless fleshies around you. your choice.

spells chosen reflect what i think are the most important bard spells to a melee-er... spell slots left open are up to your choice. i also didn't chose any epic feats past 24.

i say screw TWF. yes you'll have the dex for it, and yes you get the first feat for free from ranger, but bards is so tight on feats, just use a greatsword. you'll be fine.

potential enhancement list... subject to change


Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Weapon Attachment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Power of the Forge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Obstinance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Howl of the North (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)

voodoogroves
12-23-2013, 10:49 AM
Define "better."

I'd rather define "likely" ;-)

Panzermeyer
12-23-2013, 10:55 AM
I am feeling very confused, I want a dps bard that will be able to run some lower ee's, like Eveningstar without too much problems. I will TR again at 28, but maybe not right away, as I plan to TR another toon first and don't want to be leveling 2 at the same time.

My TR project is in his bard life now.

I am running a Half-Orc 17 Bard/2 fighter/ 1 Cleric.

If I had to redo it I would likely just go 18/1/1. There was nothing compelling about the extra fighter feat.

This guy is a TON of fun to play. The Half-Orc has great synergy with THF. I have Lay Waste, and Momemntum Swing twisted in. Mostly in Spell Singer Enhancements with a bit in Warchanter. Divine Might from Cleric. Tactics and Haste from Fighter.

He is a str build and in the teen levels runs around with a 50+ str when buffed out. He hits like a truck, has GREAT CC, ton of healing.

Only thing I miss on this guy is evasion and trapping ability. But honestly I have not missed evasion a ton either.

I plan on creating a first life toon with this build after I TR out of this anyway. I am having so much fun with this build.

Scrag
12-23-2013, 11:06 AM
My TR project is in his bard life now.

I am running a Half-Orc 17 Bard/2 fighter/ 1 Cleric.

What about horc 14 bard/5 wiz/1fvs? Obvious poke at permanent tensors, the extra cleaves, and other bits you get from wiz. 14 bard gets you a third 5th level spell, for mass suggestion, mindfog, and greater dispell. Why mindfog? To make sure other will based spells go off anyway with the effective +10 to your dc to beat. What you think?

Micki
12-23-2013, 11:19 AM
i worked this up before you replied with tomes. yer good. i only accounted for +3 str and dex. you have that covered, so yer good


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Bladeforged
(3 Ranger \ 1 Cleric \ 16 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 406
Spell Points: 774
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 14 17
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 6 8
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 2 23
Bluff 2 11
Concentration 8 36
Diplomacy 2 11
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 11
Heal 2 27
Hide 2 11
Intimidate 2 11
Jump 3 16
Listen -2 7
Move Silently 2 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a 34
Repair -1 8
Search -1 8
Spellcraft -1 8
Spot -2 7
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble 3 12
Use Magic Device 2 34

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Lord of Blades
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection from Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (1): Feather Fall


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Rage


Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 10 (Bard)
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Displacement


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (5): Greater Heroism


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)


Level 27 (Epic)


Level 28 (Epic)


HP/SP numbers are likely off a bit, i had to fudge the numbers a little. max perform, max concentrate, max UMD. can put points in balance and heal, or repair instead to amp your reconstruct instead of helping out all the hapless fleshies around you. your choice.

spells chosen reflect what i think are the most important bard spells to a melee-er... spell slots left open are up to your choice. i also didn't chose any epic feats past 24.

i say screw TWF. yes you'll have the dex for it, and yes you get the first feat for free from ranger, but bards is so tight on feats, just use a greatsword. you'll be fine.

potential enhancement list... subject to change


Enhancement: Bladeforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Inscribed Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Communion of Scribing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Weapon Attachment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Bladeforged - Power of the Forge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Tendon Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Action Boost: Sprint (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Obstinance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Howl of the North (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)




Thank you for doing this. Just wondering, will this toon be doing any ranged damage at all, or would it be better to just go with the 1 fighter/ 1 cleric / 18 bard thing?

Micki
12-23-2013, 11:20 AM
My TR project is in his bard life now.

I am running a Half-Orc 17 Bard/2 fighter/ 1 Cleric.

If I had to redo it I would likely just go 18/1/1. There was nothing compelling about the extra fighter feat.

This guy is a TON of fun to play. The Half-Orc has great synergy with THF. I have Lay Waste, and Momemntum Swing twisted in. Mostly in Spell Singer Enhancements with a bit in Warchanter. Divine Might from Cleric. Tactics and Haste from Fighter.

He is a str build and in the teen levels runs around with a 50+ str when buffed out. He hits like a truck, has GREAT CC, ton of healing.

Only thing I miss on this guy is evasion and trapping ability. But honestly I have not missed evasion a ton either.

I plan on creating a first life toon with this build after I TR out of this anyway. I am having so much fun with this build.

Thank you. What level is he currently and what difficulty do u usually run? Have u noticed any difficulty running epics?

Scrag
12-23-2013, 11:24 AM
Thank you for doing this. Just wondering, will this toon be doing any ranged damage at all, or would it be better to just go with the 1 fighter/ 1 cleric / 18 bard thing?

Better point is, you do understand that as a bladeforged bard, you are going to have to lr+1, drop paladin, change align, lr +20 right?

Micki
12-23-2013, 11:27 AM
Better point is, you do understand that as a bladeforged bard, you are going to have to lr+1, drop paladin, change align, lr +20 right?

Yes, this was mentioned a couple of times already in this thread, and that was the reason I was at first not going for the idea. But I believe I have the hearts in question, I just need to buy alignment change.

katz
12-23-2013, 01:01 PM
Thank you for doing this. Just wondering, will this toon be doing any ranged damage at all, or would it be better to just go with the 1 fighter/ 1 cleric / 18 bard thing?

the char, as built, would be able to use manyshot, which is of course great burst damage, and if you're trying to refill primal sphere... hey furyshot for the win! downsides: no IPS so single target action only, and no precise shot, so if something gets between you and your intended target, you'll hit that instead. still useful for bosses

BoBoDaClown
12-23-2013, 02:09 PM
Why mindfog? To make sure other will based spells go off anyway with the effective +10 to your dc to beat. What you think?

Mindfog has a save (and once they save I think they don't have to save again).

So it is useful as a 'double up' type spell, i.e. you chuck that and a discoball or hold monster, and if you have decent DCs they are unlikely to save against both.

unbongwah
12-23-2013, 02:35 PM
Why mindfog? To make sure other will based spells go off anyway with the effective +10 to your dc to beat. What you think?
As BoBo said, Mind Fog has its own save. You might be thinking of Hypnotism & Crushing Despair, as the Will debuff from them always procs (unless immune), even if they save; not sure if they stack, though.

Scrag
12-23-2013, 02:54 PM
Mindfog has a save (and once they save I think they don't have to save again).

So it is useful as a 'double up' type spell, i.e. you chuck that and a discoball or hold monster, and if you have decent DCs they are unlikely to save against both.

Yep. Drop a fog and discoball where you know enemies will spawn, and see what sticks. Works good, but I don't know which is saved against first, the fog or the discoball. :/ Since both of them last a very long time, it doesnt seem to matter. However, it seems very difficult to disco xorian renders. :/

Micki
12-23-2013, 04:13 PM
the char, as built, would be able to use manyshot, which is of course great burst damage, and if you're trying to refill primal sphere... hey furyshot for the win! downsides: no IPS so single target action only, and no precise shot, so if something gets between you and your intended target, you'll hit that instead. still useful for bosses

K K. Ty. So, would fvs 1 instead of cleric 1 work the same, just more sp?

Panzermeyer
12-23-2013, 04:15 PM
Thank you. What level is he currently and what difficulty do u usually run? Have u noticed any difficulty running epics?

He is currently 16, 13 Bard/2Ftr/1 Cl. If I had to redo I'd drop the extra fighter and likely go FvS instead. I was mainly after Empower Healing and Divine Might both of which I can get from FvS.

I play only Elites 800+ BB Streak going currently. Running around with a 16th level House C Greateaxe of Fire. He hit's like a truck. Already has a 40+ UMD.

He might have a bit of difficulty on higher end EE. Cause I do have a ton of bard gear. Heck at 16 I am only running around with a +3 perform item.

With the right gear I would suspect he would work out pretty well. EN and EH I would suspect would be no trouble at all for me.

Panzermeyer
12-23-2013, 04:16 PM
K K. Ty. So, would fvs 1 instead of cleric 1 work the same, just more sp?

For my purposes yes it would. The two main things I would looking for from a level of Cleric was Divine Might from the Warpriest Tree and the Empower Healing Feat.

You can get that from either Cleric or FvS. If I had to do over I would likely go FvS just for the slightly more SP.

Micki
12-23-2013, 04:29 PM
He is currently 16, 13 Bard/2Ftr/1 Cl. If I had to redo I'd drop the extra fighter and likely go FvS instead. I was mainly after Empower Healing and Divine Might both of which I can get from FvS.

I play only Elites 800+ BB Streak going currently. Running around with a 16th level House C Greateaxe of Fire. He hit's like a truck. Already has a 40+ UMD.

He might have a bit of difficulty on higher end EE. Cause I do have a ton of bard gear. Heck at 16 I am only running around with a +3 perform item.

With the right gear I would suspect he would work out pretty well. EN and EH I would suspect would be no trouble at all for me.

Ok, see, my problem so far with some builds have been that they were good and easy to level, but didn't do well at all in epics. I'd like this build to work also in epics.

My current build (2 rogue/ 18 wizard/ 8 epic), has dd check with tools and gh of 84. The only trap he's ever failed was the optional chest in heroic elite Feast or Famine without dd item on, as I didn't realize that dc on that one is really high. He's got evasion with reflex of 50+ with buffs, so I even evade a bit in eE, always in eH. But as a caster he sucks. I can cc on eH, while on eE, I need a lot of debuffs on the mobs before my cc takes, and he uses mana like crazy. So, I want the bard life to be better, and work also at epic levels. :)

Panzermeyer
12-23-2013, 05:16 PM
So, I want the bard life to be better, and work also at epic levels. :)

I understand your concern and there are definitely a lot of builds I use for leveling and to get a past life, that I would not run in Epics.

Basically at this point I would be very comfortable running this build in epics. In fact I plan on taking this build to 28 anyway and either do an iconic TR or an Epic TR.

What would you define as working on Epics?

As a DC caster for the CC spells this build would not work. It is Str rather than Cha and Splashed.

My perform for fascinates without working on it is near 50 at 16 level. With proper gear by this time it should be well over 60. And honestly I have not noticed NOT having a perform item. I am sure it would be an issue in Epics that I would need to rectify with gear and I believe it would be workable at least, not totally sure as my Cha would not be in the 40's+. I would make sure to get Force of Personality to bulster will saves with Cha.

As a buffer, self-sufficient, DPS build. This is great and I think would work awesome in Epics. Saves is one area that I am not sure about, but then again I would not be sure about with an near pure or splash build for that matter that did not have monk or pally.

It definitely does not necessarily have the top highest DPS, but does any non-fighter (type) build have that, this one definitely has super solid DPS. It additionally has excellent support buffs for self and party, excellent self healing, excellent CC, excellent damage, and damage mitigation (Displace and Blur).

You either have to run a bard as a CC-Support build or a DS-support build, in Epics. This one definitely fits the bill for the second, not so much for the first.

unbongwah
12-23-2013, 06:08 PM
A few minor advantages to cleric instead of FvS splash: you can pick up Wand & Scroll Mastery, Divine Cleansing, and Altruism (+13 Pos Spellpower) from Radiant Servant; also Divine Vitality from Divine Disciple if you wanna make the other casters in your party happy.

marinerfan
12-23-2013, 07:33 PM
I was thinking of doing 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2 fighter, manyshot melee, but my suggestion has been getting negative feedback from the ppl I've spoken to.

Welcome to bard. Some love it, some hate it :)

Regarding your initial planned build, I think it'd work alright with one tweak - splash 2 rogue instead of 2 fighter. I played this build for well over a year and didn't get bored of it - you'll be self-healing, party buffing, fascinating, trapping, and evading most enemy spells. You're not top-shelf DPS, but with a few good paralyzers and manyshot you'll at least help, plus you're very survivable and can fit the needs of almost any party (sadly, no mass cures with 12 bard, that was the major drawback I noticed).

Just like your initial plan, this build got some negative feedback and was rejected from parties as I leveled up. The joke was on them because they'd sit around waiting for a "trapper" while I'd just go off and solo the quest while they waited.

voodoogroves
12-23-2013, 07:54 PM
A few minor advantages to cleric instead of FvS splash: you can pick up Wand & Scroll Mastery, Divine Cleansing, and Altruism (+13 Pos Spellpower) from Radiant Servant; also Divine Vitality from Divine Disciple if you wanna make the other casters in your party happy.

I never have the AP for that.

Micki
12-24-2013, 12:16 AM
I understand your concern and there are definitely a lot of builds I use for leveling and to get a past life, that I would not run in Epics.

Basically at this point I would be very comfortable running this build in epics. In fact I plan on taking this build to 28 anyway and either do an iconic TR or an Epic TR.

What would you define as working on Epics?

As a DC caster for the CC spells this build would not work. It is Str rather than Cha and Splashed.

My perform for fascinates without working on it is near 50 at 16 level. With proper gear by this time it should be well over 60. And honestly I have not noticed NOT having a perform item. I am sure it would be an issue in Epics that I would need to rectify with gear and I believe it would be workable at least, not totally sure as my Cha would not be in the 40's+. I would make sure to get Force of Personality to bulster will saves with Cha.

As a buffer, self-sufficient, DPS build. This is great and I think would work awesome in Epics. Saves is one area that I am not sure about, but then again I would not be sure about with an near pure or splash build for that matter that did not have monk or pally.

It definitely does not necessarily have the top highest DPS, but does any non-fighter (type) build have that, this one definitely has super solid DPS. It additionally has excellent support buffs for self and party, excellent self healing, excellent CC, excellent damage, and damage mitigation (Displace and Blur).

You either have to run a bard as a CC-Support build or a DS-support build, in Epics. This one definitely fits the bill for the second, not so much for the first.

Any chance you could show me your build plan? I def want self healing, self buffing dps, and if the toon can do some cc too, that'd be great. Working in epics means, I need to be more than a piker in lesser ee at 28 (and should be able to handle himself in eH ADQ at 20). My current build can do ee traps, he buffs and self heals and does minor damage, but mostly I run a round kiting mobs and raising ppl (eE Madstone yesterday).

My playstyle: when I hit 20 I start running eVON and eADQ (raids), I flag for CitW and FoT and start running them as well. I might do some eH/ eN xp'ing to level, and then I want to do some eE's. Running eE's and raids is my fav. I'm currently not happy with my wizard, he's nice support, he can kite undead in FoT, but his dps is low (I could potentially respec him and make him better, but meh, time to TR).

Micki
12-24-2013, 12:32 AM
Welcome to bard. Some love it, some hate it :)

Regarding your initial planned build, I think it'd work alright with one tweak - splash 2 rogue instead of 2 fighter. I played this build for well over a year and didn't get bored of it - you'll be self-healing, party buffing, fascinating, trapping, and evading most enemy spells. You're not top-shelf DPS, but with a few good paralyzers and manyshot you'll at least help, plus you're very survivable and can fit the needs of almost any party (sadly, no mass cures with 12 bard, that was the major drawback I noticed).

Just like your initial plan, this build got some negative feedback and was rejected from parties as I leveled up. The joke was on them because they'd sit around waiting for a "trapper" while I'd just go off and solo the quest while they waited.

:) Ty. I have mostly given up on this idea, as I do not want to build another support toon.

I know that as a bard I will be a bit lower on dps than a dps toon. But if I can get fascinate to work or any other cc, then the cc+dps should even out. I care less about party healing and traps. Very few traps in game have to be disabled for the quest to be completeable, and to be a good trapper you need to put points in it. On my barb/rogue I completely skipped trapping abilities (although I should have opened up open lock, as that's a skill I'm currently missing)

Micki
12-24-2013, 12:36 AM
So, the 2 builds I'm currently most interested in is Katz's bladeforged, or Panzermeyer's horc. The horc feels like a safer bet, but the bladeforged seems more different and even though a bit more work, it might be fun and interesting.. as well as let me do the race I wanted.

Propane
12-24-2013, 01:21 AM
Hello!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/255307-Acetylene-11ranger-8bard-1fighter-with-AA?highlight=acetylene

This build is dated - but shoud have a few good nuggests to find (several other threads listed - linked).

I am planning on updating this one soon - just haven't gotten there yet...

12ranger/8bard would be my first choice - but would need to work it out in a planner ...

Micki
12-24-2013, 03:20 AM
Hello!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/255307-Acetylene-11ranger-8bard-1fighter-with-AA?highlight=acetylene

This build is dated - but shoud have a few good nuggests to find (several other threads listed - linked).

I am planning on updating this one soon - just haven't gotten there yet...

12ranger/8bard would be my first choice - but would need to work it out in a planner ...

:) I'm looking for bard past life, so bard has to be the main class, otherwise I'd consider it.

Micki
12-24-2013, 03:22 AM
the char, as built, would be able to use manyshot, which is of course great burst damage, and if you're trying to refill primal sphere... hey furyshot for the win! downsides: no IPS so single target action only, and no precise shot, so if something gets between you and your intended target, you'll hit that instead. still useful for bosses

I'm thinking about this, and for my playstyle, I think the lack of precise shot would just hurt too much. Imagine we're in FoT, SR & TO prepped, and I'm about to kill SR with manyshot, and a trashmob gets in the way. Now that would suck big time.

katz
12-24-2013, 06:42 AM
mmm. yeah i could see how that would suck. the only options i can think of would be to exchange either imp crit:slash or extend for precise shot... neither of those are terribly exciting to me...one, you'd have to make sure to use a keen weapon all the time, and the other you'd have to deal with short haste/rage/displacement. uhg

Panzermeyer
12-24-2013, 01:51 PM
Any chance you could show me your build plan?

Here is the build plan I used. I remembered why I went 2 ftr it was more to get the teir 2 tactics from Kensei. Though my str is so high I am not having any problem getting tactics to fire. However the bonus in Epics would likely help.

Your 5 wiz splash might prove interesting though I would think you would lose some CC. You could keep your perform up and have your Fascinates fire. However the -6 to DC's for disco ball and such would definitely effect your CC at Epic levels, you would also miss irresisable dance. Which when combined with fascinate it definitely the best CC in the game.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(2 Fighter \ 1 Cleric \ 17 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 451
Spell Points: 915
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 11
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 29
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 15 20
Intelligence 12 17
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 16 23

Tomes Used

+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 3 32
Bluff 7 37
Concentration 6 37
Diplomacy 3 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 17
Heal 1 32
Hide -1 9
Intimidate 3 14
Jump 5 19
Listen -1 9
Move Silently -1 9
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform 7 38
Repair 1 11
Search 1 11
Spellcraft 1 11
Spot -1 9
Swim n/a n/a
Tumble 1 11
Use Magic Device 7 37

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Sovereign Host


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Arcane Initiate


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Raging Crush (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Brutality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Flicker (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Flicker (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Flicker (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)


Level 28 (Epic)

unbongwah
12-24-2013, 02:16 PM
I don't think bard 17 gets you anything; I would take cleric 2 instead for Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel, possibly Enflame if you can afford the APs.

marinerfan
12-24-2013, 03:21 PM
:) Ty. I have mostly given up on this idea, as I do not want to build another support toon.

I know that as a bard I will be a bit lower on dps than a dps toon. But if I can get fascinate to work or any other cc, then the cc+dps should even out. I care less about party healing and traps. Very few traps in game have to be disabled for the quest to be completeable, and to be a good trapper you need to put points in it. On my barb/rogue I completely skipped trapping abilities (although I should have opened up open lock, as that's a skill I'm currently missing)

Fair enough :)

One tidbit: if you're planing to utilize fascinate as your CC I hope you're playing in a dedicated group or soloing. Virtually no puggers will take the time to recognize the notes above the mob's head, because MOAR CLEAVE AND MOAR FIREBALL is always better

IBCrabin
12-24-2013, 06:41 PM
Bardcher can solo EE quests. I had one in U17 I solo EE quests with comparable time vs other builds. I made him full time trapper AA. He was a helf 15/3/2 bard/rogue/ranger. He was not as useful in guild environment when there are a lot of power zergers in the guild.

I took inspired excellence as a group buff. but for dps purpose, I would be better off with Overwhelming critical.

Fascinate DC can go really high so it does land in most situation. I had around 74 DC fascinate in fotw. I invis into mobs and fascinate. Then I would line up mobs and adrenaline IPS pin them down and pick off the pinned mobs. it was safe, easy and extremely fast. But when you have people that can kill faster than you can fascinate, you might as well not use fascinate.

If I were to make another bardcher post U19, I go with human 12/6/2 bard/ranger/rogue. Trapper AA fotw. that will free up a lot of feats for Overwhelming critical,

Pick up point blank shot, Improved precise shot, and Improved critical: Range for bow. Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave for Over whelming critical, empower heal , toughness. 8 feats.

For epic feats: pick up Combat archery, Over whelming critical, epic damage reduction.

Then pick up 1 toughness for epic ed feat and whatever else you want.

Figure out how many points you need in int to have enough skill points for trapping. then distribute the rest accordingly.

The nice thing with human is the extra skill point so you don't need as high int for the skill points. Scroll heal will hit for 350-400+ with 75% scroll mastery.

Micki
12-25-2013, 04:24 AM
Bardcher can solo EE quests. I had one in U17 I solo EE quests with comparable time vs other builds. I made him full time trapper AA. He was a helf 15/3/2 bard/rogue/ranger. He was not as useful in guild environment when there are a lot of power zergers in the guild.

I took inspired excellence as a group buff. but for dps purpose, I would be better off with Overwhelming critical.

Fascinate DC can go really high so it does land in most situation. I had around 74 DC fascinate in fotw. I invis into mobs and fascinate. Then I would line up mobs and adrenaline IPS pin them down and pick off the pinned mobs. it was safe, easy and extremely fast. But when you have people that can kill faster than you can fascinate, you might as well not use fascinate.

If I were to make another bardcher post U19, I go with human 12/6/2 bard/ranger/rogue. Trapper AA fotw. that will free up a lot of feats for Overwhelming critical,

Pick up point blank shot, Improved precise shot, and Improved critical: Range for bow. Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave for Over whelming critical, empower heal , toughness. 8 feats.

For epic feats: pick up Combat archery, Over whelming critical, epic damage reduction.

Then pick up 1 toughness for epic ed feat and whatever else you want.

Figure out how many points you need in int to have enough skill points for trapping. then distribute the rest accordingly.

The nice thing with human is the extra skill point so you don't need as high int for the skill points. Scroll heal will hit for 350-400+ with 75% scroll mastery.

I am going a bit in circles. I am interested in this build. I just figured a thf melee bard would be a safer bet, but my original idea was the 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2.. something. The rogue was suggested to me, and if this can work, I'm interested. I'll look at the planner, but if you'd like to help me figure out the points, I would be interested looking at your plan.

Oh, and btw, wouldn't it be better to swap cleave for twf feats?

Micki
12-25-2013, 06:44 AM
How much off am I? Is this meant to be twf or thf? I'll do one more switching cleave for twf line...
How would you do the feats and skills? I focused ranged attacks for later on, and thinking mostly melee for the lower levels.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Cerge
Level 28 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 12 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 472
Spell Points: 610
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 21
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 18 21
Constitution 15 21
Intelligence 10 13
Wisdom 8 12
Charisma 8 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 8 22
Bluff -1 8
Concentration 4 33
Diplomacy -1 8
Disable Device 4 32
Haggle -1 8
Heal 1 13
Hide 4 13
Intimidate -1 8
Jump 6 19
Listen -1 9
Move Silently 4 13
Open Lock 8 17
Perform n/a 31
Repair 0 9
Search 4 32
Spellcraft 0 9
Spot 3 13
Swim 3 16
Tumble 5 14
Use Magic Device 3 31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (1): Master's Touch


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (1): Remove Fear


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Grease
Spell (2): Rage


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Haste


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration




I didn't do enhancements, if you got a recommendation for those, I'd look at that too.

katz
12-25-2013, 07:27 AM
I am going a bit in circles. I am interested in this build. I just figured a thf melee bard would be a safer bet, but my original idea was the 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2.. something. The rogue was suggested to me, and if this can work, I'm interested. I'll look at the planner, but if you'd like to help me figure out the points, I would be interested looking at your plan.

Oh, and btw, wouldn't it be better to swap cleave for twf feats?

can't get overwhelming crit without cleave and great cleave. and overwhelming crit is teh win!

Micki
12-25-2013, 07:41 AM
can't get overwhelming crit without cleave and great cleave. and overwhelming crit is teh win!

Ah. Ok. So, can you look at my build plan above? What would you do differently?

katz
12-25-2013, 08:29 AM
How much off am I? Is this meant to be twf or thf? I'll do one more switching cleave for twf line...
How would you do the feats and skills? I focused ranged attacks for later on, and thinking mostly melee for the lower levels.

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I didn't do enhancements, if you got a recommendation for those, I'd look at that too.

seems solid. would be a strong combatant for sure, both melee and ranged. few tweaks, tho...1. if your second level is ranger, you don't need master's touch. you're proficient. 2. you have no extend... i would have swapped that out for extend - you have to weigh whether you want better heals and supershort haste/rage/displace, or longer buffs and worse heals. i went with buffs, personally. i went for a while on Pointless leveling her without extend.. and i hated it. 3. yer gonna get manyshot REALLY late... i suppose that's not a HUGE issue, as the BAB at the lower levels makes manyshot kinda meh anyway.

slightly tweaked version (http://pastebin.com/1E07a8pp) if you wanted to take a look. same stats, same level order.. basically a straight copy of what you did, but with slightly changed feats/spells.

and is it meant to go TWF or THF? heh. that's your choice. you could do either. you wouldn't have GTWF, so you wouldn't be quite as good at it as some, but with the TWF feats you get free from ranger, you'd still still kick some butt with it. don't give up a cleave for GTWF. you'd lose overwhelming crit.

downsides: stops at 12 bard, so no level 5 or 6 spells. no GH. no ottos irresistible. also... no Inspire Excellence. if you can tolerate the loss of those things... yeah. go for it.

Micki
12-25-2013, 09:11 AM
seems solid. would be a strong combatant for sure, both melee and ranged. few tweaks, tho...1. if your second level is ranger, you don't need master's touch. you're proficient. 2. you have no extend... i would have swapped that out for extend - you have to weigh whether you want better heals and supershort haste/rage/displace, or longer buffs and worse heals. i went with buffs, personally. i went for a while on Pointless leveling her without extend.. and i hated it. 3. yer gonna get manyshot REALLY late... i suppose that's not a HUGE issue, as the BAB at the lower levels makes manyshot kinda meh anyway.

slightly tweaked version (http://pastebin.com/1E07a8pp) if you wanted to take a look. same stats, same level order.. basically a straight copy of what you did, but with slightly changed feats/spells.

and is it meant to go TWF or THF? heh. that's your choice. you could do either. you wouldn't have GTWF, so you wouldn't be quite as good at it as some, but with the TWF feats you get free from ranger, you'd still still kick some butt with it. don't give up a cleave for GTWF. you'd lose overwhelming crit.

downsides: stops at 12 bard, so no level 5 or 6 spells. no GH. no ottos irresistible. also... no Inspire Excellence. if you can tolerate the loss of those things... yeah. go for it.

Thank you, I like it. I'm gonna look at the planner once more and post the build idea on my blog. :)

Do you feel I should take more ranger levels sooner? I was thinking this build would be mostly melee until epic levels. I could adjust the class/level order a bit and take the ranger levels sooner.

katz
12-25-2013, 10:05 AM
well, like i said... while i prefer to have manyshot as early as i can in ranged builds... i realize that if your BAB is too low, there's no real point. on Katz's current life, she picked up the 4th arrow from BAB on the same level she got IPS. O. M. G. WHAT A DIFFERENCE.

sounds like a fun build.

also... wow i'm oblivious. i just realized, holy **** yer on Orien? lol got any questions, harass me in game. i'll be glad to answer! or is your youtube name lying to me?

Micki
12-25-2013, 10:55 AM
well, like i said... while i prefer to have manyshot as early as i can in ranged builds... i realize that if your BAB is too low, there's no real point. on Katz's current life, she picked up the 4th arrow from BAB on the same level she got IPS. O. M. G. WHAT A DIFFERENCE.


:) I have been avoiding ranged toons like the plague. I'm a healer at heart, no matter what toon I'm on I'm looking at the party's hp bars, and I may throw a heal if I react fast enough... even on my melees. :D My toons carry raise & heal scrolls. Still, except for my cleric, I feel my melee toon has always been my best toon. She rocked as a monk, and she's doing really well as a barbarian. But now, it's time for me to face my fears and try an archer. This will be interesting.




also... wow i'm oblivious. i just realized, holy **** yer on Orien? lol got any questions, harass me in game. i'll be glad to answer! or is your youtube name lying to me?

:D I'm on Orien, I believe I've seen your bard sometime.. and we may very well have run together some time. My mostly played toons: Thazara, Cerge and Maidae. I raid a lot.

IBCrabin
12-25-2013, 11:33 AM
Looks good. I usually take Cleave and Great cleave early on. Faster killing mobs at lower level quests with a Carnifex cleaver.

I can't tell you how well the break down below will work. Virtuoso is decent with a lot of healing amp gear and Positive spell power. It was ticking for 3-8, every 1 to 2 second on my first life melee bard post U19. All I had was a heroic elite Shamanic fetish on (72 pos spell power), 30% hamp from PDK and I think 30% hamp bracer. I built him for past lives and TR him right away when U20 came out.

I spec the toon to run in AA with slaying arrow and shocking arrow imbue for vulnerability. If you find yourself in melee mode more than AA, you can try lowering the AA tree and go up War enchanter to see how that play to your style. The points in spell singer is to beef up the fascinate ability. The more perform you get, the better. Ran out of AP to get sniper shot (deepwood core 3).

Key items to get, IMO, are Pinion, prowess trinket, Gilvenor Ring and Necklace, and a +20 perform item to make this toon affective. You will want to stock up on divine power clickies or use tenser's transformation scroll. This will reduce the grazing hit by a lot. fyi: even on a 44 wisdom base toon, I still get grazing hit.

The rest of the items will enhanced your durability and add a bit more damage.

10% dodge item, prr augment, hamp bracer, positive spell power (gauntlet of immortality, halcyon boots)

Improved deception + SA damage (seal of avithoul, Backstabber glove). Damage (Deadly of accuracy item).

If you have a spare feat, you can pick up extend. Personally, I find any short buff over 1 minute, i.e. displacement, haste, is good enough to not need extend.



Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Negotiator (Rannk 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Sniper (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Sniper (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancementt: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 1)

katz
12-25-2013, 12:16 PM
:) I have been avoiding ranged toons like the plague. I'm a healer at heart, no matter what toon I'm on I'm looking at the party's hp bars, and I may throw a heal if I react fast enough... even on my melees. :D My toons carry raise & heal scrolls. Still, except for my cleric, I feel my melee toon has always been my best toon. She rocked as a monk, and she's doing really well as a barbarian. But now, it's time for me to face my fears and try an archer. This will be interesting.

hah. i know that feeling. Katz is my aspiring completionist.. with a twist. AA every life. but i started with divine lives. i practically have the whole 'red bar watching' thing hard wired now. even on katz's current barb life, i almost never rage, and if i notice a bar below a certain threshold... cocoon!




:D I'm on Orien, I believe I've seen your bard sometime.. and we may very well have run together some time. My mostly played toons: Thazara, Cerge and Maidae. I raid a lot.

hah! which one?? i've got 4! :D Cerge and Maidae are vaguely familiar to me... as in, may have seen them around, but i have the memory of a flea sometimes... you've seen my char list by now i assume, so maybe there's a name or 2 on there that you recognize also. XD

marinerfan
12-25-2013, 12:49 PM
Guess I didn't try hard enough to convince you of 12/6/2 rogue :p. I couldn't suggest it solos EE because that character has never had any good gear (I never bothered because I was 'tough enough' for what I wanted to do.)

I played mine mostly as a melee focused on 2wf that ONLY used my bow when I had manyshot off timer. I think it worked best this way and sounds mostly like what you'd want to play. This character is great on the front line because you have pretty nice saves + displacement so you'll be tough to pin down.

Regarding some of the questions/suggestions of others considering I've played this character...

Extend vs empower heal - I'd take empower heal, absolutely. With spellsong vigor you have unlimited sp anyways so who cares if you have to hage more often? The beefed up heals will be very useful in the heat of battle

Enhancements - When I made mine, I spread the points out quite a bit.
*I took the spellsong vigor tier 5 because those extra SP are invaluable on this build (you'll have a small sp pool).
*I put enough into warchanter to get the GH song and that's it (don't waste your time on the cold ****). I think there is also attack haste boost in this tree. Take it, love it, and activate it whenever you use manyshot.
*I put just a couple points into arcane archer, mainly just to put an extra 1d8 damage (electric) on my arrows, and get unlimited arrows
*I put quite a few points into the tempest tree. I am not sure if it was worth it, but I wanted to beef up my dodge and 2wf skills

When I leveled mine, I didn't get manyshot until lvl 18 and I had no problems leveling up, plus getting it just in time for vale quests/reaver's refuge/etc was a nice boost at just the right time.

Micki
12-25-2013, 03:48 PM
Looks good. I usually take Cleave and Great cleave early on. Faster killing mobs at lower level quests with a Carnifex cleaver.

I can't tell you how well the break down below will work. Virtuoso is decent with a lot of healing amp gear and Positive spell power. It was ticking for 3-8, every 1 to 2 second on my first life melee bard post U19. All I had was a heroic elite Shamanic fetish on (72 pos spell power), 30% hamp from PDK and I think 30% hamp bracer. I built him for past lives and TR him right away when U20 came out.

I spec the toon to run in AA with slaying arrow and shocking arrow imbue for vulnerability. If you find yourself in melee mode more than AA, you can try lowering the AA tree and go up War enchanter to see how that play to your style. The points in spell singer is to beef up the fascinate ability. The more perform you get, the better. Ran out of AP to get sniper shot (deepwood core 3).

Key items to get, IMO, are Pinion, prowess trinket, Gilvenor Ring and Necklace, and a +20 perform item to make this toon affective. You will want to stock up on divine power clickies or use tenser's transformation scroll. This will reduce the grazing hit by a lot. fyi: even on a 44 wisdom base toon, I still get grazing hit.

The rest of the items will enhanced your durability and add a bit more damage.

10% dodge item, prr augment, hamp bracer, positive spell power (gauntlet of immortality, halcyon boots)

Improved deception + SA damage (seal of avithoul, Backstabber glove). Damage (Deadly of accuracy item).

If you have a spare feat, you can pick up extend. Personally, I find any short buff over 1 minute, i.e. displacement, haste, is good enough to not need extend.



Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Negotiator (Rannk 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Sniper (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Sniper (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Musical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Inferno Shot (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancementt: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 1)



Thank you. I do have pinion and bow from abbot, I will need more gear, though. This gives me an idea for enhancements, although I don't usually take human versatility.

Micki
12-25-2013, 03:50 PM
Guess I didn't try hard enough to convince you of 12/6/2 rogue :p. I couldn't suggest it solos EE because that character has never had any good gear (I never bothered because I was 'tough enough' for what I wanted to do.)

I played mine mostly as a melee focused on 2wf that ONLY used my bow when I had manyshot off timer. I think it worked best this way and sounds mostly like what you'd want to play. This character is great on the front line because you have pretty nice saves + displacement so you'll be tough to pin down.

Regarding some of the questions/suggestions of others considering I've played this character...

Extend vs empower heal - I'd take empower heal, absolutely. With spellsong vigor you have unlimited sp anyways so who cares if you have to hage more often? The beefed up heals will be very useful in the heat of battle

Enhancements - When I made mine, I spread the points out quite a bit.
*I took the spellsong vigor tier 5 because those extra SP are invaluable on this build (you'll have a small sp pool).
*I put enough into warchanter to get the GH song and that's it (don't waste your time on the cold ****). I think there is also attack haste boost in this tree. Take it, love it, and activate it whenever you use manyshot.
*I put just a couple points into arcane archer, mainly just to put an extra 1d8 damage (electric) on my arrows, and get unlimited arrows
*I put quite a few points into the tempest tree. I am not sure if it was worth it, but I wanted to beef up my dodge and 2wf skills

When I leveled mine, I didn't get manyshot until lvl 18 and I had no problems leveling up, plus getting it just in time for vale quests/reaver's refuge/etc was a nice boost at just the right time.

:D Yeah, my first idea was 12 bard/ 6 ranger/ 2 fighter... but after your suggestion, friend in game suggested it too, and made it sound like a good idea, so though, heck I was a trapper this life and have trapper gear.. and it is almost the build I was going for anyway.

And yes, I'm thinking mostly melee except for manyshot.

Micki
12-25-2013, 03:58 PM
hah! which one?? i've got 4! :D Cerge and Maidae are vaguely familiar to me... as in, may have seen them around, but i have the memory of a flea sometimes... you've seen my char list by now i assume, so maybe there's a name or 2 on there that you recognize also. XD

:) I think I've seen Pointless, cause the name stuck in mind.

Thevile
12-26-2013, 06:54 PM
Was searching for some ideas for my bard and found this tread
He was (still is) a Virtuosi assassin (2WF Halfling bard 12 /rog 6 / fighter 2 (build is outdated now) )

Rolled must for fun/ flavor, but turn out to be a very nice toon

So far my build plan to Tr will be
Halfling bard 11 / ranger 6 / rogue 3
Will take only 11 bard levels 12 don’t give much and allow rog 3 for more SA
Halfling for guile ( and Halfling have the best bard buff :p )
I mostly gear him towards SA, don’t use CC or healing from blue bar
CC comes from songs
Healing from scrolls (still have slotted CCW, and can work ok with some gear)

Feats (in no order)
Precision, G2WF, Point blank shot, IC-slash., exotic weap = Kopesh, Extend, dodge

Core skills
Bluff, Perform, UMD

Enhancements
Halfling tree (guile), assassin tree for SA, DWS for moar SA, SS will be taking enthrallment and Spell song trance. (a lot of versatility in enhancements haven’t figured out if have the AP´s to take all that I want , a lot of choices and routes to go )

Epic feats
No much love towards 2wf here, OC is great, just as 2WF and in planed build just a bit tight to fit in. Starting with high dex and a +4 tome to qualify to combat archery may be an idea.
Otherwise will be just trying to sneak in more dodge bonus

Probably some flaws in the build, but just as someone who plays a 2wf bard, just sharing some food for the thought as the way I am planning my hybrid 2wf/archer bard for the current game.

Hope it can be useful.