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View Full Version : I'd love to see plat-bought guides...



mobrien316
12-20-2013, 05:21 PM
I would love to see a “guide” at the entrance to all wilderness areas, as well as at the entrance to all quests in wilderness areas, who would accept 10 plats in exchange for teleporting you to the quest you want to run. I don’t want to see the “Wheloon” version where the guide will take astral shards to teleport you to the quest.

The first time a player goes into an explorer area, it’s cool to look around and explore. After a while, it’s just an annoyance on the way to the quest you really want to run.

I know some people are fans of explorer areas, and some people feel it helps with “immersion” if you actually have to laboriously sprint all the way through each and every explorer zone in the game every time you want to do a quest. For those people, the option would still be there; they can run all over the zone for as long as they like before going to the quest. For people who just want to run the quest while wasting the minimum amount of time doing nothing but running and turning, they could skip the explorer zone and just go to the quest.

I see this as just another way to make grouping easier. If a player looks at the LFM’s and sees a quest he or she wants to run, it should be easy and fast to get to the quest so the group can run it. Anything that helps that process should be considered. What possible ends are served by someone hitting the LFM, being accepted, going through the loading screen to get off the ship, going through the loading screen to enter the desert, and then spending five minutes running through the desert to get to Chains of Flame? Is there anyone who truly believes that is more fun than just hitting the LFM and being at the quest entrance a few seconds later?

danotmano1998
12-20-2013, 05:28 PM
I would love to see a “guide” at the entrance to all wilderness areas, as well as at the entrance to all quests in wilderness areas, who would accept 10 plats in exchange for teleporting you to the quest you want to run.

I'm guessing they won't unless they can make some $$ off of it.

However, the Harper teleportation spots in the Stormhorns and the one in King's Forest is an excellent use of this fast travel mechanic and cost absolutely nothing.
I'm a big fan of "Ok, I trudged the 12 miles all the way out here, next time let me just teleport here for free" option.

Vellrad
12-20-2013, 05:32 PM
It should be 10k-200k at least (per single use).

The more you use, the more it cost.

Lets call it laziness penatly.

EllisDee37
12-20-2013, 05:54 PM
It should be 10k-200k at least (per single use).

The more you use, the more it cost.

Lets call it laziness penatly.Fair enough, though that seems a bit steep.

Maybe 1k plat per level of the quest you're being teleported to? So 2k to get out to misery's peak, 16k for rainbow in the dark.

Vellrad
12-20-2013, 08:30 PM
Fair enough, though that seems a bit steep.

Maybe 1k plat per level of the quest you're being teleported to? So 2k to get out to misery's peak, 16k for rainbow in the dark.

I'd rather prefer if prices would be outrageus, to discourage laziness.

Firts, second or even third could be relatively cheap, but people teleporting over and over should be punished.


And I don't really want this in game.

First they're asking about teleport to quest, next they will ask for instawin with teleport to endchest.

BTW, I'd be OK with bracelet of friends working in dungeons/wildernesses.

voodoogroves
12-20-2013, 09:07 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to some targeted ones, but make the cost scale based on the level, and not minimally.

EllisDee37
12-21-2013, 06:00 AM
First they're asking about teleport to quest, next they will ask for instawin with teleport to endchest.That's a silly leap to make.

mobrien316
12-21-2013, 12:50 PM
I'd rather prefer if prices would be outrageus, to discourage laziness.

Firts, second or even third could be relatively cheap, but people teleporting over and over should be punished.


And I don't really want this in game.

First they're asking about teleport to quest, next they will ask for instawin with teleport to endchest.

BTW, I'd be OK with bracelet of friends working in dungeons/wildernesses.

If you didn't want to use the "guides" you wouldn't have to. You would be free to roam and roam to your heart's content.

Why would you be opposed to someone who thought explorer zones were a waste of time teleporting to the quest? Are you opposed to the Teleport spell in general, because people should have to run everywhere or else they're lazy? Do you avoid the teleporters because to use them is to be lazy? Do you think people who use Dimension Door are lazy? Do you avoid airships? Every time you run Shroud, do you first go to the Twelve, then run through the Vale of Twilight, because teleporting to Meridia or stepping off an airship in Meridia is lazy? Please reassure me that you have never used your Key to the City of Eveningstar rather than going to the Harbor, going through the crack in the wall, going to the Eveningstar Cavern, and then finally getting to Eveningstar, because that would apparently be tremendously lazy!

This idea would help those who see it as a problem, while not affecting those who don't to any degree at all. I don't know why someone would be so opposed to such an idea.

Tscheuss
12-21-2013, 12:59 PM
I like the GH version of this, and Wheloon and Stormhorns are good at this, too, as is the one in King's Forest. Earn it before you use it sounds like a good balance.

EllisDee37
12-21-2013, 01:09 PM
I like the GH version of this, and Wheloon and Stormhorns are good at this, too, as is the one in King's Forest. Earn it before you use it sounds like a good balance.That works too. My favorite example is tangleroot.

Vellrad
12-21-2013, 01:21 PM
If you didn't want to use the "guides" you wouldn't have to. You would be free to roam and roam to your heart's content.

Why would you be opposed to someone who thought explorer zones were a waste of time teleporting to the quest? Are you opposed to the Teleport spell in general, because people should have to run everywhere or else they're lazy? Do you avoid the teleporters because to use them is to be lazy? Do you think people who use Dimension Door are lazy? Do you avoid airships? Every time you run Shroud, do you first go to the Twelve, then run through the Vale of Twilight, because teleporting to Meridia or stepping off an airship in Meridia is lazy? Please reassure me that you have never used your Key to the City of Eveningstar rather than going to the Harbor, going through the crack in the wall, going to the Eveningstar Cavern, and then finally getting to Eveningstar, because that would apparently be tremendously lazy!

This idea would help those who see it as a problem, while not affecting those who don't to any degree at all. I don't know why someone would be so opposed to such an idea.

I am opposed to lazy people demanding easy buttons, because they're to lazy to run past few mobs.
Next you will ask about teleport to end chest, because you don't have time to kill mobs in quest.

mobrien316
12-21-2013, 01:29 PM
I am opposed to lazy people demanding easy buttons, because they're to lazy to run past few mobs.
Next you will ask about teleport to end chest, because you don't have time to kill mobs in quest.

Do you honestly not see the difference between teleporting to a quest and the nonsense that you suggested?

We can teleport to various places, step off airships in various places, DDoor back to quest entrances, teleport through some explorer areas once we've located a waypoint, but teleporting to a quest entrance in an explorer area is so awful in your view that no one in the game should be able to do it? It wouldn't be sufficient for you to choose not to do it; you don't want anyone else in DDO to have the option?

Shall I assume that you don't use the Teleport spell, Greater Teleport, DDoor, the Key to Eveningstar, airships, or teleporters? Or are those conveniences acceptable but skipping a few minutes in an explorer area is lazy? Can you explain the difference? Because I'm not seeing it.

enochiancub
12-21-2013, 01:33 PM
I don't really understand the need or desire, but since I wouldn't use it I don't see how it would adversely impact my game play. Sure, why not.

Vellrad
12-21-2013, 01:43 PM
Do you honestly not see the difference between teleporting to a quest and the nonsense that you suggested?

We can teleport to various places, step off airships in various places, DDoor back to quest entrances, teleport through some explorer areas once we've located a waypoint, but teleporting to a quest entrance in an explorer area is so awful in your view that no one in the game should be able to do it? It wouldn't be sufficient for you to choose not to do it; you don't want anyone else in DDO to have the option?

Shall I assume that you don't use the Teleport spell, Greater Teleport, DDoor, the Key to Eveningstar, airships, or teleporters? Or are those conveniences acceptable but skipping a few minutes in an explorer area is lazy? Can you explain the difference? Because I'm not seeing it.

Why you want to get past all those mobs guarding queust entrance freely (lol 10 plat is nothing even for someone who just got past grotto), in no time and without drawing a weapon?
Its no different to demand beign teleported to end chest without need to fight mobs nor trash.

EllisDee37
12-21-2013, 01:52 PM
Its no different to demand beign teleported to end chest without need to fight mobs nor trash.Being teleported TO the quest is quite different from being teleported to the END of the quest. Surely even you can understand this.

mobrien316
12-21-2013, 02:00 PM
Why you want to get past all those mobs guarding queust entrance freely (lol 10 plat is nothing even for someone who just got past grotto), in no time and without drawing a weapon?
Its no different to demand beign teleported to end chest without need to fight mobs nor trash.

I thought I already explained why I want to skip the mobs and the run; it's boring and it's a time sink and it's in the way of what I really want to do, which is run the quest.

Let me ask this:

Suppose you just finished Shroud, and you see an LFM for Acid Wit that you join. Do you talk to the djinni to teleport to the Twelve? Or do you walk out of Meridia and run to the Twelve?

I don't know anyone who would run through the Vale of Twilight rather than simply teleporting in that circumstance, and I'm confident you don't, either. What's the difference? If skipping a boring run with non-challenging mobs and a few minutes of time sink in order to get to the quest you want to run is okay in that situation, why is it not okay to teleport to a quest and skip an explorer zone?

It's a serious question. Perhaps there is some aspect of this I'm just not seeing.

Vellrad
12-21-2013, 02:40 PM
For me mobs in quest are boring, does it mean I'm entitled to have a guide that will teleport me right away to end boss?

EllisDee37
12-21-2013, 02:53 PM
For me mobs in quest are boring, does it mean I'm entitled to have a guide that will teleport me right away to end boss?It means you're entitled to go play a different game.

If you've ever used the Gianthold teleporters, or the Tangleroot teleporter, then your general position is wholly without merit. Even if you've never used them, your stated reasoning is, of course, invalid. It doesn't get more textbook logical fallacy than what you've posted in this thread.

Wipey
12-21-2013, 03:09 PM
It takes 2 minutes to get from airship to anywhere ( sans CoF and perhaps something else ).

BOgre
12-21-2013, 03:23 PM
Well, there IS one thing that is even less logical than Vellrad's arguments: Arguing with Vellrad.

mobrien316
12-21-2013, 03:25 PM
For me mobs in quest are boring, does it mean I'm entitled to have a guide that will teleport me right away to end boss?

First of all, you're awesome! (I'm assuming that's what you wanted everyone to think when you wrote that mobs in quests are boring, and I'm happy to accommodate you!)


The quests are really the core of the game. Explorer areas are not. Explorer areas aren't necessary at all; if they were, why are so many quests located in city areas?

If you don't want to run quests then I don't know why you are playing the game at all. Not wanting to run through the desert for five minutes every time you run Chains of Flame (for example) is hardly the same as not wanting to run a quest. Explorer areas for veteran players are nothing more than time sinks; they add no challenge or excitement to the game, but merely take up time you'd rather spend actually running a quest.

Does anyone who has, for example, hit 5000 slayers in the Vale of Twilight, keep running around the Vale just for the fun of it? For the challenge? For the excitement? They have all the rares, explorers, and maxed slayer count, but they post LFM's for the Vale just because it's so much fun to wander around, killing unchallenging mobs?

SirValentine
12-21-2013, 03:47 PM
Note I'm not signing on to the "teleport to the endboss" line of nonsense.



The quests are really the core of the game. Explorer areas are not.


That is your perspective.

This is a game that has a lot of different types of content. To some people, PvP is core. To some, actual role-playing (i.e., pretending to be their characters). Some just like the immersion of the environments. Some like playing around with building charaters...some focused on the stats, but some focused on the cosmetics. Some people even like those <shudder> "Challenges". Some seem to care more about getting every single cosmetic pet than anything else. Quests are just one piece of the big picture.

To me, the wilderness areas are just as much a "core" part of the game.



Does anyone who has, for example, hit 5000 slayers in the Vale of Twilight, keep running around the Vale just for the fun of it? For the challenge? For the excitement? They have all the rares, explorers, and maxed slayer count, but they post LFM's for the Vale just because it's so much fun to wander around, killing unchallenging mobs?


Probably happens about as often as people go into quests that they get zero Favor, zero XP, zero loot, zero completions-towards-a-numbered-completion or any other such reward for and kill un-challenging mobs there just for the excitement of it.

SirValentine
12-21-2013, 03:52 PM
Not wanting to run through the desert for five minutes every time you run Chains of Flame (for example) is hardly the same as not wanting to run a quest. Explorer areas for veteran players are nothing more than time sinks; they add no challenge or excitement to the game, but merely take up time you'd rather spend actually running a quest.


And you could really say the same about lots of quests, too. Flagging quests for veteran players are nothing more than time sinks. They add no challenge or excitement to the game, but merely take up time you'd rather spend actually running the quest you prefer to run.

The devs WANT time sinks. It make the content last longer.

EllisDee37
12-21-2013, 03:57 PM
It takes 2 minutes to get from airship to anywhere ( sans CoF and perhaps something else ).Misery's Peak, both ataraxia quests, in the belly of the beast, tangleroot the first time you run it, much of demon sands, gianthold, necro4, vale of twilight, amrath and the second motu chain, most of 3BC and sorrowdusk, and all of high road of shadows, threnal, red fens, restless isles, secrets of the artificers, reaver's reach and the first motu chain, and possibly bargain of blood are all longer than 2 minutes from leaving the airship to entering the quest.

Several of those (tandgleroot, gianthold, restless isles, schyndylryn) use teleporters to lessen the tedium after the first time you do it.

Xianio
12-21-2013, 05:16 PM
You were getting trolled before mate. The guy wasn't offering anything new, he was just repeating what he had said before with minor alternations. :P


Real answer as to why not:

It has nothing to do with player enjoyment and everything to do with the longevity of the game. Yes, you're bored with wilderness areas, but for every minute you spend in the game the likelihood of you spending money increases. That's the incentive to create wilderness areas at all, otherwise you need to build a significant number of new quests to make up for the time lost. This in turn means more rewards so people level up faster/get better gear etc.

All told, wilderness areas and all tedious processes like them are designed to set a pace for "completion." Areas like Giantshold etc. are larger than average so you add waypoints so that players don't decide those quests "aren't worth it."

HOWEVER!

Your idea may still be a good one. As the playerbase dwindles the "hugeness" of the game starts to hurt the 'feel' of the game. Some areas seem utterly barren of other people, which means you're/everyone else is more likely to move on to more "popular" games/past times.

It's always better to feel like you're with a community than all by yourself because everyone else figured out "something better."

SirValentine
12-21-2013, 05:36 PM
Misery's Peak, both ataraxia quests, in the belly of the beast, tangleroot the first time you run it, much of demon sands, gianthold, necro4, vale of twilight, amrath and the second motu chain, most of 3BC and sorrowdusk, and all of high road of shadows, threnal, red fens, restless isles, secrets of the artificers, reaver's reach and the first motu chain, and possibly bargain of blood are all longer than 2 minutes from leaving the airship to entering the quest.


If you include run from the airship, how many NON-wilderness quests fail to meet the 2 minute mark?

You have to run from the airship regardless of whether there's a wilderness. So whatever "extra" wilderness time there is starts from entering the wilderness.

I didn't time them all, but just for kicks I timed running to Reclamation, as that was the one that most jumped out at me. Under 45 seconds. Without Haste or any special speed boosts beyond Striding.

Personally, I don't find 2 minutes or a little more to be egregious. I don't find any of your list particularly annoying to get to. (Well Belly would be if one didn't have the teleport unlocked.) The Sub-T and Cannith raids fare much worse.

mobrien316
12-21-2013, 06:49 PM
Misery's Peak, both ataraxia quests, in the belly of the beast, tangleroot the first time you run it, much of demon sands, gianthold, necro4, vale of twilight, amrath and the second motu chain, most of 3BC and sorrowdusk, and all of high road of shadows, threnal, red fens, restless isles, secrets of the artificers, reaver's reach and the first motu chain, and possibly bargain of blood are all longer than 2 minutes from leaving the airship to entering the quest.

Several of those (tandgleroot, gianthold, restless isles, schyndylryn) use teleporters to lessen the tedium after the first time you do it.

I forgot about Sorrowdusk. What a great set of quests that are nearly ruined by having to run back and forth over the same ground again, and again, and again, and again...

Has anyone ever run Desert Caravan and thought, "You know what would be a lot more fun that simply stepping into this quest? If we first had to follow the caravan's path through a long, boring, winding wilderness filled with low level, unchallenging mobs!"
Neither have I...

Wipey
12-21-2013, 07:23 PM
Misery's Peak, both ataraxia quests, in the belly of the beast, tangleroot the first time you run it, much of demon sands, gianthold, necro4, vale of twilight, amrath and the second motu chain, most of 3BC and sorrowdusk, and all of high road of shadows, threnal, red fens, restless isles, secrets of the artificers, reaver's reach and the first motu chain, and possibly bargain of blood are all longer than 2 minutes from leaving the airship to entering the quest.

Several of those (tandgleroot, gianthold, restless isles, schyndylryn) use teleporters to lessen the tedium after the first time you do it.

Woah, it's really important if it's 2 or 2 : 30 so I got bored enough to investigate !
Slow ass hasted cleric, no wings or run boost on my 5 years old uber pc with ~ 5 sec loadtimes.

Break in the ice 2 : 50 ( ship > key > north portal )
End of the road 1 : 52 ( ship > key )

GOP 1 : 40 ( ship > Orchard )
Inferno 1 : 50

Oob 2 : 50
Adq 2 : 39

Sykros Jewel 1 : 50 ( Ship > House K > invis run to quest )
Cry 2 : 35 ( ship > gh port > run WITHOUT TELEPORT )

Rainbow 2 : 04
Rit sac 2 : 10

Sins 1 : 30 ( from ship )
Into the deep 2 : 11 ( run from house K ship entrance )
Etk 2: 57 ( from ship )

And OMG Misery Peak 2 : 30 from Harbour ship portal. Feel free to run the rest in your spare time.
Apologies to everyone for spreading false info, it takes more than 2 mins for some quests, 2 mins for most, there are still some people that can't get into adq in 15 mins though.

EllisDee37
12-22-2013, 04:16 AM
The key is an example of teleporting similar to what the OP is requesting, so you can't use the key if the position is that adding teleporters is a bad idea.

True on Reclamation; I always think of both ataraxia quests as the same run as sykros' jewel.