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redhwanict
12-18-2013, 07:07 AM
Hello,

My question: Is it worth to take 2 level of Paladin on multiclass build that completely dump charisma?

The build is something like this 9 fighter/9 monk/2 paladin.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Fedora1
12-18-2013, 07:31 AM
Hello,

My question: Is it worth to take 2 level of Paladin on multiclass build that completely dump charisma?

The build is something like this 9 fighter/9 monk/2 paladin.

Thanks in advance for the help.

No, the usual reason for 2 pally levels is to add CHA bonus to saves. If you dump CHA you get very little (or nothing) by splashing 2 pally.

Loromir
12-18-2013, 08:41 AM
It could still be useful if you would just add couple of build points to chr and get good +# chr items and a chr tome. Another benefit of taking the pally levels is one Lay on of Hands for an emergency heal per rest and some proficiency with healing wands and scrolls.

Fedora1
12-18-2013, 09:34 AM
It could still be useful if you would just add couple of build points to chr and get good +# chr items and a chr tome. Another benefit of taking the pally levels is one Lay on of Hands for an emergency heal per rest and some proficiency with healing wands and scrolls.

Partially agree but probably not enough to make up for two levels of something else (fighter/monk ). Where do you get the couple extra build points for CHA in a fighter/monk split? LOH wont be much good with 2 pally levels and low CHA.

Wands is a good point. Are there any pally enhancements that are decent with 2 levels?

Ralmeth
12-18-2013, 10:02 AM
Partially agree but probably not enough to make up for two levels of something else (fighter/monk ). Where do you get the couple extra build points for CHA in a fighter/monk split? LOH wont be much good with 2 pally levels and low CHA.

Wands is a good point. Are there any pally enhancements that are decent with 2 levels?

No, there are really no good pally enhancements if you just splash 2 levels.

Loromir
12-18-2013, 10:19 AM
Partially agree but probably not enough to make up for two levels of something else (fighter/monk ). Where do you get the couple extra build points for CHA in a fighter/monk split? LOH wont be much good with 2 pally levels and low CHA.

Wands is a good point. Are there any pally enhancements that are decent with 2 levels?

If you start with CHR at 10 +6 item +4 Tome +2 ship buff that alone would be +8 to saves. Lay on of Hands would heal for around 120 (Granted not great and only one per rest, but might mean the difference between dead and not dead).

I'm not saying a splash of 2 lvl pally in this case is the best idea, but not totally useless.

Fedora1
12-18-2013, 11:04 AM
If you start with CHR at 10 +6 item +4 Tome +2 ship buff that alone would be +8 to saves. Lay on of Hands would heal for around 120 (Granted not great and only one per rest, but might mean the difference between dead and not dead).

I'm not saying a splash of 2 lvl pally in this case is the best idea, but not totally useless.

I can see starting with a 10 CHA, but slotting a spot for a +6 CHA item vs. something else is less likely than say using a +4 CHA diamond in an otherwise unused colorless slot or just a plain old eagle's splendor potion. The +4 tome, they don't just grow on trees. If one drops in a chest it would probably be traded for a +4 tome to a primary stat. I suppose many guilds have a +2 CHA buff, but none that I am in do so I hadn't considered that. At any rate, realistically I'm guessing you would end up with a 16 CHA for most of heroic content, IMO not worth the 2 pally splash.

Your points are well taken though, so hopefully it doesn't look like I am discounting them rather than just kind of thinking out loud.

Krelar
12-18-2013, 11:05 AM
If you start with CHR at 10 +6 item +4 Tome +2 ship buff that alone would be +8 to saves. Lay on of Hands would heal for around 120 (Granted not great and only one per rest, but might mean the difference between dead and not dead).

I'm not saying a splash of 2 lvl pally in this case is the best idea, but not totally useless.

That would be actually be +6 saves and lay on hands would hit for 72 before healing amp.

Fedora1
12-18-2013, 11:07 AM
Lay on of Hands would heal for around 120 (Granted not great and only one per rest, but might mean the difference between dead and not dead).

Actually I think for an investment of 4-5 AP in the DoS tree you can easily get 4 LOH per rest.

unbongwah
12-18-2013, 11:45 AM
The build is something like this 9 fighter/9 monk/2 paladin.
Uhh, what does 9 ftr get you? :confused: Is it just for PL?

In any case, it basically depends on two factors:

(A) How high can you get your CHA? I.e., how big of a bonus to saves will you be getting? Even with base CHA 8, you can still add +8 enhancement item + 2 ship buff + 3 tome + 3 insight bonus + 2 Yugo pots = CHA 26, which is +8 to saves. But not everyone can or will invest that much into CHA.

(B) To borrow an economic term, what's the opportunity cost; i.e., what are you sacrificing by taking 2 pally lvls? Is Divine Grace more valuable than what you would get from two more ftr or monk lvls; or a 2-lvl splash of a different class?

No, there are really no good pally enhancements if you just splash 2 levels.
If you Twist in Bane of Undeath, you can use Divine Might, which is tier-2 KotC; also Dmg Boost, if for some reason you don't have access to it any other way. Also, while not relevant to OP's build, you could take Sacred Armor / Shield Mastery from Sacred D., which AFAIK stacks w/Stalwart D. and dwarf bonuses.

redhwanict
12-18-2013, 11:54 AM
Uhh, what does 9 ftr get you? :confused: Is it just for PL?



You got me there:p its just for PL & I'm also testing out something.

Guess I'll just split 2 level of cleric for some flavor like divine might or other cleric thingy. Once again thanks a lot guys for giving me your input. Truly appreciated it.

Feithlin
12-18-2013, 01:24 PM
For Fighter PL, I think F12/M6 base would be better than F9/M9. If you plan to do only heroics (and TR again at 20), C2 may be a better idea than P2: less saves, but DM is more front loaded and you get scroll mastery. For epics (if you want to eTR at 28), P2 is probably better: some eE require very high saves and you can twist Bane of Undeath.

If you dump Cha, P2 is much less useful, but it's very effective with only 6 points invested in: maybe drop Str from 18 to 16?

jskinner937
12-18-2013, 02:29 PM
No, there are really no good pally enhancements if you just splash 2 levels.

I disagree completely.

First of all, even if you completely ignore charisma you should still have a + 3 bonus to saves with a + 8 item. But that is not likely. You should consider dumping wisdom for charisma and picking up FoP as you will get way more out of Charisma than wisdom on a 9F/9M/2P build. And then your will save is based on Charisma.

Divine Might is a KoTC enhancement that is feasible to use with only 2 levels of pally even without twisting Bane of Undeath. I have 19 turns (renewable outside quests/wilderness areas) at level 20. I did invest in extra turns in the enhancements and have a cleric past life however. At 28, I have 27 turns available.

All you need to do is have a capped Unuielding Sentinel destiny and switch it active at a fatespinner or a public area if VIP.

I don't know about you, but for 2 levels of pally, a feat and 14 AP points invested, you can easily achieve + 14 to saves and enough divine mights for almost any quests to complete with constant +14 bonus to strength without sacrificing will save is pretty nice.

Ralmeth
12-18-2013, 04:01 PM
I disagree completely.

First of all, even if you completely ignore charisma you should still have a + 3 bonus to saves with a + 8 item. But that is not likely. You should consider dumping wisdom for charisma and picking up FoP as you will get way more out of Charisma than wisdom on a 9F/9M/2P build. And then your will save is based on Charisma.

Divine Might is a KoTC enhancement that is feasible to use with only 2 levels of pally even without twisting Bane of Undeath. I have 19 turns (renewable outside quests/wilderness areas) at level 20. I did invest in extra turns in the enhancements and have a cleric past life however. At 28, I have 27 turns available.

All you need to do is have a capped Unuielding Sentinel destiny and switch it active at a fatespinner or a public area if VIP.

I don't know about you, but for 2 levels of pally, a feat and 14 AP points invested, you can easily achieve + 14 to saves and enough divine mights for almost any quests to complete with constant +14 bonus to strength without sacrificing will save is pretty nice.

Really?! That sounds like a bug that you would keep your turns after you swap destinies. I would think once Bane of Undeath is no longer active, your turns would go away.

Ralmeth
12-18-2013, 04:05 PM
If you Twist in Bane of Undeath, you can use Divine Might, which is tier-2 KotC; also Dmg Boost, if for some reason you don't have access to it any other way. Also, while not relevant to OP's build, you could take Sacred Armor / Shield Mastery from Sacred D., which AFAIK stacks w/Stalwart D. and dwarf bonuses.

That's an interesting idea to twist in Bane of Undeath. Nice:)

HungarianRhapsody
12-18-2013, 04:05 PM
Really?! That sounds like a bug that you would keep your turns after you swap destinies. I would think once Bane of Undeath is no longer active, your turns would go away.

You would also think that once you remove any over-level items that your Burden of Guilt debuff would go away and once you leave Litany that your Mentau debuff would go away. Might as well take the good with the bad.

Ralmeth
12-19-2013, 08:40 PM
You would also think that once you remove any over-level items that your Burden of Guilt debuff would go away and once you leave Litany that your Mentau debuff would go away. Might as well take the good with the bad.

Yeah, no doubt:)