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Pilgrim1
12-14-2013, 11:41 PM
I have a 16monk/2ranger/2fighter blade-forged quivering palm monk (wisdom build) and I have been trying to up my DPS on bosses and in raids.

Thanks to turbine I have this nice raiders box which i can open. So my question fellow monkies, is which attack stile/weapon deals the most single target damage?

*Sireth, Spear of the Sky - +7 Quarterstaff: 2.5[1d10], Double Expanded Threat: 18-20/x2 and Slashing/Piercing damage - not bludgeoning, Supreme Good, Lightning Strike, Cloudburst, Freedom of Movement, Feather Falling
---With tear 5 ability to make it a 13-20/x3 weapon.

*Antipode, Fist of the Horizon - +7 Handwraps : Antipodal, Doublestrike 6%, Reinforced Fists, Stunning +10
---90% off hand with this option, not sure if ill make it up to 1d8 base die or not.

*Celestia, Brightest Star of Day - +7 Shortsword: 2.50[1d10] 19-20/x2, Light damage - Not Piercing, Supreme Good, Radiance, Greater Sunburst, Fiery Detonation
--- off hand maybe Elemental fury or something else? Take IC: pierce to get it to 17-20/x2


I most likely will be running in earth stance tear 3.

Thanks in advance!

obscure.jester
12-15-2013, 10:12 AM
I have a 16monk/2ranger/2fighter blade-forged quivering palm monk (wisdom build) and I have been trying to up my DPS on bosses and in raids.

Thanks to turbine I have this nice raiders box which i can open. So my question fellow monkies, is which attack stile/weapon deals the most single target damage?

*Sireth, Spear of the Sky - +7 Quarterstaff: 2.5[1d10], Double Expanded Threat: 18-20/x2 and Slashing/Piercing damage - not bludgeoning, Supreme Good, Lightning Strike, Cloudburst, Freedom of Movement, Feather Falling
---With tear 5 ability to make it a 13-20/x3 weapon.

*Antipode, Fist of the Horizon - +7 Handwraps : Antipodal, Doublestrike 6%, Reinforced Fists, Stunning +10
---90% off hand with this option, not sure if ill make it up to 1d8 base die or not.

*Celestia, Brightest Star of Day - +7 Shortsword: 2.50[1d10] 19-20/x2, Light damage - Not Piercing, Supreme Good, Radiance, Greater Sunburst, Fiery Detonation
--- off hand maybe Elemental fury or something else? Take IC: pierce to get it to 17-20/x2


I most likely will be running in earth stance tear 3.

Thanks in advance!

any wraps actually. monks have the highest DPS in game due to their superior alacrity while attacking unarmed. thus any decent base dmg wraps will overDPS any staff/weapon you're gonna use. go for antipode / thunder & lightning.

elcagador
12-15-2013, 01:08 PM
I don't think monks have the highest dps on bosses because of crits damage but since you don't have much str, I think handwraps is probably the best bet with better attack speed and sneak damage procs if dont have the aggro (I think handwraps are now working with fury moment), although Sireth have a good critical profile for Fury moment (but quarterstaffs use THF line and benefit more from high str) and I don't know how celestia works with ninja spy enhancements because there are some good potential poison damage from there but have heard that Celestia doesn't work with all abilities from that tree (but not sure)

Pilgrim1
12-15-2013, 02:21 PM
any wraps actually. monks have the highest DPS in game due to their superior alacrity while attacking unarmed. thus any decent base dmg wraps will overDPS any staff/weapon you're gonna use. go for antipode / thunder & lightning.

This is not really true, while monks do attack faster its only about ~10% faster. Also considering my low str the full str bonus to the off-hand attacks is not that much better then half str. I'm sure a toon duel wielding weapons with 13-20/x3 crit profiles will do significantly more dmg then a hand wrap user.



I don't think monks have the highest dps on bosses because of crits damage but since you don't have much str, I think handwraps is probably the best bet with better attack speed and sneak damage procs if dont have the aggro (I think handwraps are now working with fury moment), although Sireth have a good critical profile for Fury moment (but quarterstaffs use THF line and benefit more from high str) and I don't know how celestia works with ninja spy enhancements because there are some good potential poison damage from there but have heard that Celestia doesn't work with all abilities from that tree (but not sure)

good point about the ninja spy stuff, Celestial doesn't play nicely. If i get what your saying low str is better paired with a faster attack speed and lots of added on dmg and when you have high str your better off with weapons that have better crit profiles.

I would be surprised if I end up with a str difference of more then 20 from a full str based monk. Is that +10 dmg/hit really that big of a deal when we have +10 deadly, seeker, and set bonuses?

Are glancing blows working on quarterstaff's now? I don't really want to invest in the THF line, not enough feats.

Raoull
12-15-2013, 02:34 PM
Definitely Handwraps.

What is probably confusing you, is do not pay attention to Antipode. Those are basically just there to pretend monks can get something from CitW. For most situations where you'd want Antipode, Grave wrappings are usually better (due to lvl drain). A fully upgraded Antipode starts being a tad better than GW perhaps... but I don't think its worth the comms and such myself. Antipode's strongest advantage over GW is the +15 PRR for Planar Conflux, but even that is probably not worth it most of the time.

For boss DPS, you just want the biggest baddest beaters you can find. Thunder and Lightning is unbeatable for raw DPS. Either use those, or a good pair of Deception wraps. Deception is great for boss beaters, as it helps minimize incoming damage, in addition to adding a touch of sneak, even while soloing. In a true Tank & Spank situation it could be a problem, but no one really does that any more.


Boss DPS comparison:
Antipode: +7 , +3% doublestrike (you probably get 3 from your belt), bonus damage of either 7, 10.5 or 14 depending on alignment. +half die base damage.... only if you don't have Reinforced fists from something else (for fleshies, outfit is very common).
Total : 7 + 10.5 (took the middle) + 2.25 (half of d8) = 19.75
Full upgrade bumps that to 28.5 (assuming 1d10 ruby slotted)

EN Thunder and Lighting: +6, 17.5 electric, 17.5 sonic, +half die base damage (always). Red slot, (lets call it a 1d10 electric ruby) 5.5 electric.
Total: 6 + 17.5 + 17.5 + 5.5 + 2.25 = 48.75

Per hit, T&L does almost 30 more damage than Antipode, and that's just the Normal version. Even if you have no other doublestrike, that 6% will only beat out 30 damage if you are doing nearly 1000 damage per hit (due to offhand it only adds 6 per 180 hits, not 6%)

Pilgrim1
12-15-2013, 03:59 PM
Stuff!!

Good point about the thunder and lighting, I had forgotten about that weapon. I have been hanging onto the possibility of planar set for the 4 attack/dmg +15 PRR, but maybe I should re-think that.

I intend to have improved deception somewhere on my gear, but maybe if i can find a handwraps with that and a slot i can hang onto it for a swap in if I'm the focus of bosses attention.

How about the different stiles of fighting for boss beats? Do handwraps still out-perform? For trash I plan on just QP/stunning fist stuff, but the toon is not very useful in raids with lots of red named (like FOT) or in quests with mobs that are immune to quivering palm. So I'm looking to expand the possibilities for dmg.

obscure.jester
12-15-2013, 04:10 PM
This is not really true, while monks do attack faster its only about ~10% faster. Also considering my low str the full str bonus to the off-hand attacks is not that much better then half str. I'm sure a toon duel wielding weapons with 13-20/x3 crit profiles will do significantly more dmg then a hand wrap user.


it might seem like but that +10% alacrity counts more than expected on an unarmed monk. in terms DPS monks damage is more constant, ending up to win the DPS race on the "long term" (say one minute or two). it's like a melee with big crit deals in 10 attacks a value of 5-9-4-8-5-5-9-4-5-5 dmg (attack numbers and dmg value are pure fiction, it's just to better clarify), total in one minute=59 with 3 high crits.
while a monk deals in 10+1 attacks 5-5-5-5-5-5-7-5-5-7-5=59 with 2 mid crits. on the long term it pays off

(had to edit here, math was wrong)

i might be wrong but this is what me and some guildies got after several TRs and build attempts: wraps > weapons about DPS.
of course there is also another thing to consider: a build totally focused on STR/DPS with weapons might (and i say MIGHT) have some lacks into other fields like PRR or self healing or feat slots or all that above. a monk is generally a decent well rounded toon with basically fews or no lacks.
now, lez say that im wrong and a monk DPS is slightly inferior to a weapon melee build, would you sacrifice a bit of DPS for having no lacks at all in your build? i probably would.

maddong
12-15-2013, 08:50 PM
For boss DPS, you just want the biggest baddest beaters you can find. Thunder and Lightning is unbeatable for raw DPS. Either use those, or a good pair of Deception wraps. Deception is great for boss beaters, as it helps minimize incoming damage, in addition to adding a touch of sneak, even while soloing. In a true Tank & Spank situation it could be a problem, but no one really does that any more.

Does the new deception sneak attack stack with sneak attack bonus items (seal of avithoul) or is it the same type?

Lonnbeimnech
12-15-2013, 08:53 PM
Are glancing blows working on quarterstaff's now? I don't really want to invest in the THF line, not enough feats.

yes

Pilgrim1
12-15-2013, 09:18 PM
Does the new deception sneak attack stack with sneak attack bonus items (seal of avithoul) or is it the same type?

I don't know about new vs old, but previously items stacked with weapon.

sirgog
12-16-2013, 12:00 AM
For your build, probably Thunder and Lightning as has been stated.

For some other builds I would at least seriously theorycraft the Forester's Brush Hook. Khopesh crit profile, quite a few extra damage dice, the sometimes relevant DR bypass, and the ability to improve its crit profile to eSOS levels with enhancements.

Pilgrim1
12-16-2013, 01:45 AM
For your build, probably Thunder and Lightning as has been stated.

For some other builds I would at least seriously theorycraft the Forester's Brush Hook. Khopesh crit profile, quite a few extra damage dice, the sometimes relevant DR bypass, and the ability to improve its crit profile to eSOS levels with enhancements.

I would totally jump on this... if i had the capstone! Duel wielding the brush hooks looks like the best DPS for a pure monk out there 13-20/x3 weapon.