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View Full Version : PDK TWF Bard: Tier 5 Spellsinger vs Tier 5 Warchanter



GrantAnderson
12-12-2013, 11:47 AM
I've made a Purple Dragon Knight bard, with two-weapon fighting, so Cha is my main stat, and (in theory) I have solid DCs and also weapon damage. (I would probably have gone Virtuoso in the pre-U19 layout.) Song of Capering looks neat, as does turning (regenerating) Bard Songs into spell points, and Prodigy boosts Perform, Spell Pen *and* DCs, which is pretty sweet. As against that, I am a melee bard, and Mithral Full Plate along with a +2 to hit and damage seems like it would be useful.

My current plan is to have just over 30 in each tree and get Virtuoso from Spellsinger and Victory Song from Warchanter, but I'm not sure which tier 5 to go for.

(And side question, is Flicker worth it for a melee bard? The enemies seem to keep smacking me even after it triggers, so I may have wasted some AP there.)

voodoogroves
12-12-2013, 11:50 AM
I've made a Purple Dragon Knight bard, with two-weapon fighting, so Cha is my main stat, and (in theory) I have solid DCs and also weapon damage. (I would probably have gone Virtuoso in the pre-U19 layout.) Song of Capering looks neat, as does turning (regenerating) Bard Songs into spell points, and Prodigy boosts Perform, Spell Pen *and* DCs, which is pretty sweet. As against that, I am a melee bard, and Mithral Full Plate along with a +2 to hit and damage seems like it would be useful.

My current plan is to have just over 30 in each tree and get Virtuoso from Spellsinger and Victory Song from Warchanter, but I'm not sure which tier 5 to go for.

(And side question, is Flicker worth it for a melee bard? The enemies seem to keep smacking me even after it triggers, so I may have wasted some AP there.)

If that's the route you've taken - TWF CHA based PDK - you should go for the Spellsinger capstone.

Warchanter capstone is actually pretty freaking poor for a STR bard, let alone a CHA bard. The competence bonus to damage won't stack w/ deadly items, etc.

Spellsinger all the way if you're pure. CHA. Heal. Wail (also known as mass level drain).

Atremus
12-12-2013, 12:00 PM
Spell singer gets my vote as well. I have a STR bard (18/1 Clr / 1 ftr) and he is in spell singer. Song of capering is amazing and worth it. Flicker is a joke and a waste of AP in my opinion

GrantAnderson
12-12-2013, 12:24 PM
Thanks for the advice!

I'm not pure Bard - I guess if I like it enough I could LR+X. At the moment I'm Brd14/Ftr1, with Brd18/Ftr2 being the at-20 plan. (Was toying with Brd16/Ftr2/Rog2 briefly, but I like the Virtuoso enhancement too much.)

I thought the Armorer enhancement in Warchanter looked potentially interesting for defence (I've been playing a Sorcerer lately, so I'm not sure what's good to aim for in melee defence). At the moment I'm wearing dragoncraft leather because I had some relics sitting around, and apart from that, the standard PDK starter gear. I throw Displacement before big fights and keep Blur/Freedom of Movement up otherwise. Tangenting slightly here, should I be pursuing AC, Dodge, both or neither? As a melee, I kind of want to not be hit. :)

supott
12-12-2013, 12:40 PM
Spellsinger hands down,

With spellsong vigor, you could keep displace/haste up all the time even without extend.

AC definitely worth slotting, as well as dodge if able. Natural armor items, protection items, Shield scrolls, parrying / superior parrying items.

Flicker - i got rid of mine and never looked back.

AzB
12-13-2013, 02:00 PM
Dodge and prr are your friends. When you're able, run the stormhorns chain asap. The end rewards include a ring with 24prr on it. Very helpful in heroic levels, and still pretty nice in epics if you can't find the prr anywhere else.

Heavier armor will give you better ac and prr although they will cap your dodge max.

unbongwah
12-13-2013, 04:17 PM
I've been underwhelmed by Warchanter (at least Song of Heroism got fixed); and if you're going CHA-based, you should be able to squeeze out decent Enchant DCs, which strongly suggests SS.

FWIW, here's what I'm considering epic-TRing my bard into:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 372
Spell Points: 821
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 11 13
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 17 32

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Level 1 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Finding
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Tharashk Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Tharashk Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Tharashk Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Lesser Dragonmark of Finding (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Greater Dragonmark of Finding (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Virtuoso (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Maestro of Life and Death (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Frolic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Obstinance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Obstinance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Chest-blessing (mostly I'm hoping for better tome drops), TWF w/rapiers (already have eElyd Edge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Elyd_Edge) and Balizarde), pretty decent Enchantment DCs (SF:Enchant opens up +3 DCs from Magister), solid healing (75% W&S Mastery, Emp Heal + Heal spell from SS capstone).

PDK version would drop Least Finding DM to move up metamagics sooner; switch to Star of Day / Celestias instead of Balizarde, but should still have eElyd (uses CHA already and Inspiring Echoes should be in every bard's toolkit). Or take b.sword prof. & IC:Slash and use Nightmares.