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Doutrinador
12-12-2013, 11:29 AM
I changed the tree of my ranger from Arcane Archer to Deepwood Stalker and I'm getting more damage and more utility. I am lvl 8 (10 with other ranger) and did not had slaying arrows yet, which seems to be what it is worth in AA.
Sniper shot, thrill of the hunt, Aimed Shot, leg shot and head shot seem to be very good, why so few people use DWS?
Still earn more healing, favored enemy, defense and hit, and extra favored enemy. I multiclass with rogue (5 rogue) and the added sneack attack of DWS looks good to.

A apreciate any help.

cdr
12-12-2013, 11:39 AM
If you're getting less damage out of AA, you're doing something wrong. Not even counting the fight club stuff.

Doutrinador
12-12-2013, 11:59 AM
If you're getting less damage out of AA, you're doing something wrong. Not even counting the fight club stuff.

can you explain why? Note that i did not have slaying arrow then.

cdr
12-12-2013, 07:31 PM
- Improved Shock Arrows is +20% to the entire party's DPS on anything that takes more than a few seconds to kill.
- Arrow of Slaying adds to weapon base damage, meaning it's multiplied by crits and other effects.
- Fight club.

- Favored Enemy is of limited value.
- Thrill of the Hunt is 6AP for a measly 3 damage that's only active 6 seconds at a time.
- Killer stacks expire all at once.
- Head Shot doesn't add damage, and Adrenaline/Unbridled Fury add autocrit already.
- Deepwood abilities cost a lot of AP, so you can't even afford all the DPS stuff - much less other stuff.

Deepwood Stalker is OK, but between lacking imbues and lacking Arrow of Slaying, it can't touch the DPS of AA. Plus Deepwood has to juggle a bunch of clickie attacks to try to max its DPS, and the damage is very situational/variable.

Rhaphael
12-13-2013, 02:37 AM
I too switched from AA to DWS recently, at least partially.

I'm using Paralyzing Arrows from AA and together with the extra sneak attacks, Thrill of the Hunt and Heavy Draw I at least feel like I'm doing more damage than with the occasional Slayer Arrow.

Doutrinador
12-13-2013, 08:22 AM
I too switched from AA to DWS recently, at least partially.

I'm using Paralyzing Arrows from AA and together with the extra sneak attacks, Thrill of the Hunt and Heavy Draw I at least feel like I'm doing more damage than with the occasional Slayer Arrow.


If doesn't work, i will just change tree tree again.

Doutrinador
12-16-2013, 01:18 PM
I too switched from AA to DWS recently, at least partially.

I'm using Paralyzing Arrows from AA and together with the extra sneak attacks, Thrill of the Hunt and Heavy Draw I at least feel like I'm doing more damage than with the occasional Slayer Arrow.

With merciful shot, the colors of DWS, H color of elf (2 meters + SA / black point shot) sniper shot (bluff efect), and the rogue lvl (4d / 6 SA) i am having a lot more damage. Think que DWS + Rogue for SA is an excelent option.
At the moment i am 7 ranger/3 rogue/ i fighter.

Hjarki
01-21-2014, 07:03 PM
I too switched from AA to DWS recently, at least partially.

I'm using Paralyzing Arrows from AA and together with the extra sneak attacks, Thrill of the Hunt and Heavy Draw I at least feel like I'm doing more damage than with the occasional Slayer Arrow.

Let's say you're getting 100 shots/minute. 3 of those will have +250 damage with Slaying Arrows, so you're effectively getting +7.5 damage per shot. Heavy Draw is +5 damage per shot, or +8 damage per shot with Improved Power Attack. I suppose if you're a Half-orc Barbarian you might be able to push that to +11 per shot but -11 is a pretty massive hit penalty on a Dex-based weapon and I'm not entirely sure the multiple Improved Power Attacks actually stack (not much of a Barbarian player). Additionally, being able to deliver damage in one huge lump is generally more useful than delivering equivalent damage slowly over time even when the total amount of damage is the same.

Assuming 17-20/3 critical range, Head Shot will deal critical damage on a 2-16 and +500 damage on 20. This adds (2x * 15 + 500) / 20 = 1.5x + 25 damage to one shot every minute, where x is your expected damage/shot. Assuming 100 shots/minute, that's 0.015x + .25 damage. If we say we're doing 50 damage/shot, that would be +1 damage/shot. While it's possible you might have certain trigger-on-critical abilities, there are destinies that provide this same functionality so I'd rate this as a 'not terribly impressive' enhancement.

With 17-20/3, Improved Arrows will add +2.2 damage per shot plus a rather marginal additional ability. However, as has been noted above, this value of these arrows is significantly greater when you can force criticals. If you can't force criticals, Improved Precise Shot is better if you're planning to fight a single target for a long period of time without moving - a set of circumstances not impossible but probably not worth planning on.

Thrill of the Hunt is simply... bad. For 2 AP apiece, you get +1 damage in certain circumstances. If you took FvS/Warpriest, you could have transformed those 2 AP into =1 hit/damage in all circumstances (and also +3 Spellpower). If you're an Elf, you could have gotten +1 hit/damage for those 2 AP as well.

Killer is questionable. Unless you're fighting unending waves of enemies, you're mostly going to be getting the benefits after you no longer need them.

The Favored Enemy bonuses aren't really all that great if you've got 6 levels of Ranger. They're significantly better if you've got 20 levels of Ranger and most of the enemies you're likely to face (or, at least, care about facing) are covered. However, even if you had everything as a 'Favored Enemy', the enhancements wouldn't be much more than 'kinda nice'. You have to spend a lot of AP to get benefits that are at best marginally better than more generic bonuses like the Elf/Warpriest benefits I mentioned above.

Deepwood Stalker does have a good deal of value in terms of the core abilities. Extending PBS/Sneak Attack range is valuable, although I can't convincingly quantify it. It becomes significantly more valuable the more you depend on Sneak Attack. If you're solo'ing, a Deepwood Stalker with 6 - 12 levels of Rogue is likely to pump out a lot more damage against the kinds of enemy you solo than an Arcane Archer simply because they shift into PBS range earlier and then proceed to hammer it with Sneak Attack (via Called Shot). +250 every 20 seconds is nice. +12d6 Sneak Attack per shot is devastating.

Havok.cry
01-21-2014, 07:25 PM
For me I loved the paralyzing arrows from AA. Nothing is as good as it until you get nerve venom in shriadri. If you have the capstone you can keep paralyzing arrows and terror arrows on continuously together, so every shot lowers saves and paralyzes, and vorpals have a chance to instakill regardless of remaining HP (not a high chance but a chance none the less). Inferno Shot was a nice DPS boost as well.

On the otherhand the ability I liked the most in DWS was snipershot. Making your enemy turn around on command made many many fights much easier as most boss spells ended up in a wall somewhere rather than at a party member. It also enables you to continue delivering sneak attack damage even though you have aggro.

Wrathharvest
01-21-2014, 09:39 PM
Let's say you're getting 100 shots/minute. 3 of those will have +250 damage with Slaying Arrows, so you're effectively getting +7.5 damage per shot. Heavy Draw is +5 damage per shot, or +8 damage per shot with Improved Power Attack. I suppose if you're a Half-orc Barbarian you might be able to push that to +11 per shot but -11 is a pretty massive hit penalty on a Dex-based weapon and I'm not entirely sure the multiple Improved Power Attacks actually stack (not much of a Barbarian player). Additionally, being able to deliver damage in one huge lump is generally more useful than delivering equivalent damage slowly over time even when the total amount of damage is the same.

Assuming 17-20/3 critical range, Head Shot will deal critical damage on a 2-16 and +500 damage on 20. This adds (2x * 15 + 500) / 20 = 1.5x + 25 damage to one shot every minute, where x is your expected damage/shot. Assuming 100 shots/minute, that's 0.015x + .25 damage. If we say we're doing 50 damage/shot, that would be +1 damage/shot. While it's possible you might have certain trigger-on-critical abilities, there are destinies that provide this same functionality so I'd rate this as a 'not terribly impressive' enhancement.

With 17-20/3, Improved Arrows will add +2.2 damage per shot plus a rather marginal additional ability. However, as has been noted above, this value of these arrows is significantly greater when you can force criticals. If you can't force criticals, Improved Precise Shot is better if you're planning to fight a single target for a long period of time without moving - a set of circumstances not impossible but probably not worth planning on.

Thrill of the Hunt is simply... bad. For 2 AP apiece, you get +1 damage in certain circumstances. If you took FvS/Warpriest, you could have transformed those 2 AP into =1 hit/damage in all circumstances (and also +3 Spellpower). If you're an Elf, you could have gotten +1 hit/damage for those 2 AP as well.

Killer is questionable. Unless you're fighting unending waves of enemies, you're mostly going to be getting the benefits after you no longer need them.

The Favored Enemy bonuses aren't really all that great if you've got 6 levels of Ranger. They're significantly better if you've got 20 levels of Ranger and most of the enemies you're likely to face (or, at least, care about facing) are covered. However, even if you had everything as a 'Favored Enemy', the enhancements wouldn't be much more than 'kinda nice'. You have to spend a lot of AP to get benefits that are at best marginally better than more generic bonuses like the Elf/Warpriest benefits I mentioned above.

Deepwood Stalker does have a good deal of value in terms of the core abilities. Extending PBS/Sneak Attack range is valuable, although I can't convincingly quantify it. It becomes significantly more valuable the more you depend on Sneak Attack. If you're solo'ing, a Deepwood Stalker with 6 - 12 levels of Rogue is likely to pump out a lot more damage against the kinds of enemy you solo than an Arcane Archer simply because they shift into PBS range earlier and then proceed to hammer it with Sneak Attack (via Called Shot). +250 every 20 seconds is nice. +12d6 Sneak Attack per shot is devastating.

How does Exposing Strike play with the Assassination abilities (Shiv, Bleed them Out, etc)?

aristarchus1000
01-21-2014, 10:14 PM
At level 8, I would think Paralyzing Arrows is extremely powerful at these levels.

That said, I do think you should try to get sniper shot from the DWS tree. Remember you don't have to choose one or the other.

Rhaphael
01-22-2014, 02:46 AM
At level 8, I would think Paralyzing Arrows is extremely powerful at these levels.

Paralyzing Arrows is very powerful all through heroic levels. But once you get to epic it looses a lot of it's appeal because most mobs save against it. Especially in EH and EE it hardly works anymore, at least for me.