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Nestaz
12-09-2013, 06:07 PM
I'm currently running a 28 point dwarf Cleric, sword and boarding at level 4. I'm considering picking up 2 levels of Fighter for the extra feats and the access to martial weapon proficiency, which will also let me use a dwarven war axe. Right now, I'm taking advantage of the Righteous Weapons (Sovereign Host) skills in the warpriest path, which is giving me nice damage with longswords.

My focus is on soloing as much content as possible. What do you fellows recommend I do?

firemedium_jt
12-09-2013, 07:22 PM
Melee mainly then you can splash FTR1 or WIZ1 (Master's Touch Spell).

I would not recommend splashing more than one level because the sooner you get to CLR17 the better for Mass Heal and lvl9 spells. If you want the heal the party and get invites for that.

Keep in mind later at high lvl that critical range is not as important when Adrenaline gives +16 to critical range. Oathblades help. FTR2 and WIZ1 gives more feats and melee feats help melee dps a lot more than Pure.

Pala-forged
12-09-2013, 07:54 PM
Melee mainly then you can splash FTR1 or WIZ1 (Master's Touch Spell).

I would not recommend splashing more than one level because the sooner you get to CLR17 the better for Mass Heal and lvl9 spells. If you want the heal the party and get invites for that.

Keep in mind later at high lvl that critical range is not as important when Adrenaline gives +16 to critical range. Oathblades help. FTR2 and WIZ1 gives more feats and melee feats help melee dps a lot more than Pure.

That's for very basic melee - feel free to have more. I splashed 2 monk/1 fighter on my cleric for three feats.

Not really. 1) Hjealzbots are dead. Mass heals main use is Shroud, just to remove that poison. 2) If you wanted that, could splash 1, get 17 cleric, then splash more. 3) You'll get invites anyway. I was being asked to hjealz groups at level 15, with only 12 cleric levels. (Healing is easy)

It's very important... because Fury of the Wild is not the best destiny normally. Legendary Dreadnought is normally better. And, just so you don't forget, you can't use adrenaline 24/7. The other 90% of the time crit profile is damn important. Oathblades are yuck.

I'd argue you should splash 1 fighter, than go back to cleric. When you reach level 18, you'll have access to all cleric spells - which, while Heal, Mass is pointless, you'll find some to be very useful. At level 18, you should know your build decently. You can either splash more fighter (Feats/enhancements), more cleric (spell slots/sp), wizard (feat/enhancements?) or whatever you want.

Or just go with the typical 17/2/1 cleric/fighter/wizard for +3 feats.

AtomicMew
12-10-2013, 02:35 AM
I'm currently running a 28 point dwarf Cleric, sword and boarding at level 4. I'm considering picking up 2 levels of Fighter for the extra feats and the access to martial weapon proficiency, which will also let me use a dwarven war axe. Right now, I'm taking advantage of the Righteous Weapons (Sovereign Host) skills in the warpriest path, which is giving me nice damage with longswords.

My focus is on soloing as much content as possible. What do you fellows recommend I do?

Neither, both are terrible builds. What are your constraints? Do you have access to monk? Access to iconics? Are you willing to re-roll or TR?

I_was_Whesper
12-10-2013, 05:42 AM
Neither, both are terrible builds. What are your constraints? Do you have access to monk? Access to iconics? Are you willing to re-roll or TR?

Hahaha! That's going overboard and into a different a country. The guy is level 4 and enjoying the game and you are suggesting to consider rerolling or Tring?

axel15810
12-10-2013, 09:09 AM
As I say in all these threads, the best 2 melee cleric builds right now IMO are -

17 cleric / 2 pally / 1 fighter - Gives you +1 feat and your CHA bonus added to saves

17 cleric / 2 fighter / 1 wizard - Gives you +3 feats

Pick one of those. And drop the sword and board if you want to do good DPS, go Two Handed Fighting or Two Weapon Fighting. Sword and board damage is really weak. Two Handed Fighting is likely your best option since you are 28 point and seem to be new. Two Weapon Fighting is more complicated and also requires 17 DEX to qualify for the TWF feats, which is hard to get without at least a +2 DEX tome which is probably out of reach for you right now.

I'd take one fighter level at your next level to get weapon proficiencies. Also pick up haste boost from the kensei tree ASAP. I'd then wait until you are 17 cleric/ 1 fighter and take the other 2 splash levels at 19 and 20. This is so you get your cleric spells earlier.

Monk splashes are also really good but that's a completely different build entirely and you can't use a favored weapon while centered as far as I know. So if you want to go with the warpriest tree it's probably not the best choice. Also you are level 4 so it's too late for that now unless you want to start over or Lesser Reincarnate.

But always splash 3 levels, never take an 18th cleric level. It does almost nothing but give you some SP, not near worth it.

Good luck.

mobrien316
12-10-2013, 09:17 AM
You don't need to splash anything to be an effective battle cleric, if that is your goal.

Feats: Toughness, Dwarven Waraxe, Empower Healing, Power Attack, Improved Critical: Slashing, Quicken, Maximize. For enhancements, go mostly with Radiant Servant with a few points in Warpriest.

Keep a stack of Heroism pots and Haste pots on you, cast Divine Favor and Divine Power when you need to, and you're going to do fine. At level 12 you get your aura and you should just keep it going all the time. For boss fights keep stacking Divine Punishment on the boss. You can be effective at melee and still easily keep the party healed.

Loromir
12-10-2013, 10:22 AM
You don't need to splash anything to be an effective battle cleric, if that is your goal.

Feats: Toughness, Dwarven Waraxe, Empower Healing, Power Attack, Improved Critical: Slashing, Quicken, Maximize. For enhancements, go mostly with Radiant Servant with a few points in Warpriest.

Keep a stack of Heroism pots and Haste pots on you, cast Divine Favor and Divine Power when you need to, and you're going to do fine. At level 12 you get your aura and you should just keep it going all the time. For boss fights keep stacking Divine Punishment on the boss. You can be effective at melee and still easily keep the party healed.

Effective battle Cleric maybe...but not opitmal if you want to be a melee cleric. Splashing one lvl of Fighter makes a huge difference.

If you plan to mostly solo, then I would go even further and go 12/8 Cleric/Fighter to get tier 5 Kensai and tier 4 Warpriest.

....and to take it to the next level (My favorite build that I play right now) 12 Fighter / 8 Cleric. Tier 5 Kensai (With Power surge +8 to str) and Tier 4 Warpriest (With Divine might chr modifier to str and ameliorating strike). This is not an effective party healer, but very self sufficient soloist or front line melee in a party.

mobrien316
12-10-2013, 10:59 AM
Effective battle Cleric maybe...but not opitmal if you want to be a melee cleric. Splashing one lvl of Fighter makes a huge difference.

If you plan to mostly solo, then I would go even further and go 12/8 Cleric/Fighter to get tier 5 Kensai and tier 4 Warpriest.

....and to take it to the next level (My favorite build that I play right now) 12 Fighter / 8 Cleric. Tier 5 Kensai (With Power surge +8 to str) and Tier 4 Warpriest (With Divine might chr modifier to str and ameliorating strike). This is not an effective party healer, but very self sufficient soloist or front line melee in a party.

I never claimed mine was the "optimal" build. Many people, myself included, are more interested in seeing how effective a pure battle cleric can be rather than splashing this or that. There's nothing wrong with either approach, but both approaches are not for everyone.

My main character has somewhere around 175 levels as a battle cleric. This build is highly effective and a blast to play, both in groups and solo.

TheGardes
12-10-2013, 12:01 PM
My first life was cleric, I stayed pure. I also was mace & shield, which was horrible for melee dps, but I focused on being a spell caster.

I think you need to decide if you want to be melee or casting as your primary DPS. If you're looking at melee, splashing some fighter levels for the extra feats is probably wise. I think the warpriest righteous weapons line makes the longsword a viable weapon. I regularly group with a cleric who went that route and he does very well.

If you like casting, then going pure is fine (imo).

Best tho is to just build something and have fun. You'll learn from mistakes you make, and when you hit 20, you can TR and make a "better" version (which is what I did!)

SirValentine
12-10-2013, 01:51 PM
Monk splashes are also really good but that's a completely different build entirely and you can't use a favored weapon while centered as far as I know.


Short Swords (Vulkoor) for 1 AP in Ninja Spy tree.

Long Swords (Sovereign Host) with Whirling Steel Strike feat.

Long Bows (Silver Flame) with Zen Archery feat.

supott
12-10-2013, 02:10 PM
with the new enhancements, 1 fighter is stronger than ever.. +30% Haste boosts and upto 8 action boosts.. That alone is a big deal, even without the free feat. Martial Weapon proficiency is great too. I say go for it, do 1 now, then decide later when u reach 20 if u want the other.

axel15810
12-10-2013, 05:48 PM
Short Swords (Vulkoor) for 1 AP in Ninja Spy tree.

Long Swords (Sovereign Host) with Whirling Steel Strike feat.

Long Bows (Silver Flame) with Zen Archery feat.


Good to know. Monk is one of the classes I don't know a lot about because I never play them.

axel15810
12-10-2013, 06:02 PM
You don't need to splash anything to be an effective battle cleric, if that is your goal.

Feats: Toughness, Dwarven Waraxe, Empower Healing, Power Attack, Improved Critical: Slashing, Quicken, Maximize. For enhancements, go mostly with Radiant Servant with a few points in Warpriest.

Keep a stack of Heroism pots and Haste pots on you, cast Divine Favor and Divine Power when you need to, and you're going to do fine. At level 12 you get your aura and you should just keep it going all the time. For boss fights keep stacking Divine Punishment on the boss. You can be effective at melee and still easily keep the party healed.

Pure battle cleric is especially good if you want to avoid the battle cleric reputation. I ocassionally get declined from groups on my splashed battle cleric even though I have 17 cleric levels simply because people think I can't heal since I'm not a pure cleric. That's completely stupid obviously but it's the way it is.

Also the warpriest capstone is very meh in most situations but it actually looks like it could be nice for raid bossfights. I can see +10% damage for up to 23 seconds to everyone within your aura as a nice little boost in 12 man parties (I'm assuming it stacks with everything, not sure on that). Too bad the cooldown is so long.

All that said, obviously splashed clerics will be way better melee DPS. I can see pure battle clerics having a nice little role though if you want to mainly use the toon for healing raids or just want people to like you more.

mobrien316
12-10-2013, 06:31 PM
Pure battle cleric is especially good if you want to avoid the battle cleric reputation. I ocassionally get declined from groups on my splashed battle cleric even though I have 17 cleric levels simply because people think I can't heal since I'm not a pure cleric. That's completely stupid obviously but it's the way it is.

Also the warpriest capstone is very meh in most situations but it actually looks like it could be nice for raid bossfights. I can see +10% damage for up to 23 seconds to everyone within your aura as a nice little boost in 12 man parties (I'm assuming it stacks with everything, not sure on that). Too bad the cooldown is so long.

All that said, obviously splashed clerics will be way better melee DPS. I can see pure battle clerics having a nice little role though if you want to mainly use the toon for healing raids or just want people to like you more.

That's hilarious! "...want people to like you more."

Or, as I already mentioned, some people are more interested in building a pure battle cleric rather than splashing. If your battle cleric builds are only good for healing raids or getting people to like you more, maybe you could solicit some advice on how to build a better (pure) battle cleric.

axel15810
12-10-2013, 08:25 PM
That's hilarious! "...want people to like you more."

Or, as I already mentioned, some people are more interested in building a pure battle cleric rather than splashing. If your battle cleric builds are only good for healing raids or getting people to like you more, maybe you could solicit some advice on how to build a better (pure) battle cleric.


Not many people are interested in building a pure battle cleric. Most don't enjoy intentionally gimping their characters to such a large extent. You're saying that I should suggest a min/max version of a gimped build. I can't do that because it doesn't make any sense; if I'm going to min/max I'm not building a pure battle cleric in the first place. If you want my advice on building a better pure battle cleric it would be to not build one in the first place.

mobrien316
12-10-2013, 09:37 PM
Not many people are interested in building a pure battle cleric. Most don't enjoy intentionally gimping their characters to such a large extent. You're saying that I should suggest a min/max version of a gimped build. I can't do that because it doesn't make any sense; if I'm going to min/max I'm not building a pure battle cleric in the first place. If you want my advice on building a better pure battle cleric it would be to not build one in the first place.

Like I said, if your battle cleric builds are gimp, I'm sure you could find someone to help you with your build.

Ask anyone on Thelanis who has grouped with Praetoreus and they can assure he is not anywhere close to gimp. I like playing a pure battle cleric because I used to have a dwarf battle cleric in my PnP game and he was a blast. It is not all that difficult to build a very effective melee cleric who can easily heal the party and come fairly close to the average melee damage of a fighter. Such builds are not only welcome in virtually every group, but they are also easy and effective to solo.

Pure builds aren't for everyone, that's true, just as min/max builds aren't for everyone. I don't know why you feel the need to call a build with which you apparently have no experience a "gimp" build, but there's really no reason for that.

axel15810
12-10-2013, 10:54 PM
Like I said, if your battle cleric builds are gimp, I'm sure you could find someone to help you with your build.

Ask anyone on Thelanis who has grouped with Praetoreus and they can assure he is not anywhere close to gimp. I like playing a pure battle cleric because I used to have a dwarf battle cleric in my PnP game and he was a blast. It is not all that difficult to build a very effective melee cleric who can easily heal the party and come fairly close to the average melee damage of a fighter. Such builds are not only welcome in virtually every group, but they are also easy and effective to solo.

Pure builds aren't for everyone, that's true, just as min/max builds aren't for everyone. I don't know why you feel the need to call a build with which you apparently have no experience a "gimp" build, but there's really no reason for that.

It's nice that you like to go pure because that's what you do in PnP, this game is about having fun above all else so kudos. And of course you can build an effective toon by going with a pure battle cleric, but you'll be much better if you splash.

I feel the need to call it gimp because the fact is in DDO today it is gimp. It's not so gimp to the point where it's not viable. You'll still have some ok melee damage as long as you go THF and have a good weapon, and after all any cleric that can heal and stay alive will be in high demand by parties, but you lose a lot and get little in return by staying pure.

By going pure you are starved for feats and can't fit in the entire THF/TWF line and/or the cleave/ g cleave/ overwhelming crit line which are both a huge loss in DPS. You also don't get martial proficiencies and therefore have to waste a feat if you want to use a good DPS weapon. You also lose fighter haste boost, another big DPS boost.

You also lose a huge bonus to all saves that you could get by splashing 2 pally or evasion which you could get by splashing 2 monk or 2 rogue. Both of these are big losses in survivability.

You give up all of this and for the most part all you get in return is a very situational capstone and some extra SP, which is almost useless as you can heal the party 99% of the time with burst/aura/amey strike/heal scrolls for free and you lack the feats/DCs to offensive cast effectively aside from a couple non-DC based spells. And nowadays we have cocoon as well, which is only 12 SP and makes big cleric SP pools even more useless.

mobrien316
12-11-2013, 12:43 PM
It's nice that you like to go pure because that's what you do in PnP, this game is about having fun above all else so kudos. And of course you can build an effective toon by going with a pure battle cleric, but you'll be much better if you splash.

I feel the need to call it gimp because the fact is in DDO today it is gimp. It's not so gimp to the point where it's not viable. You'll still have some ok melee damage as long as you go THF and have a good weapon, and after all any cleric that can heal and stay alive will be in high demand by parties, but you lose a lot and get little in return by staying pure.

By going pure you are starved for feats and can't fit in the entire THF/TWF line and/or the cleave/ g cleave/ overwhelming crit line which are both a huge loss in DPS. You also don't get martial proficiencies and therefore have to waste a feat if you want to use a good DPS weapon. You also lose fighter haste boost, another big DPS boost.

You also lose a huge bonus to all saves that you could get by splashing 2 pally or evasion which you could get by splashing 2 monk or 2 rogue. Both of these are big losses in survivability.

You give up all of this and for the most part all you get in return is a very situational capstone and some extra SP, which is almost useless as you can heal the party 99% of the time with burst/aura/amey strike/heal scrolls for free and you lack the feats/DCs to offensive cast effectively aside from a couple non-DC based spells. And nowadays we have cocoon as well, which is only 12 SP and makes big cleric SP pools even more useless.
To each his own.

If it makes you feel better to call other builds gimp, enjoy yourself.

I_was_Whesper
12-13-2013, 02:38 AM
Pure battle cleric is especially good if you want to avoid the battle cleric reputation. I ocassionally get declined from groups on my splashed battle cleric even though I have 17 cleric levels simply because people think I can't heal since I'm not a pure cleric. That's completely stupid obviously but it's the way it is.


And this is also one of the main reasons (for me at least) to splash something on a cleric. An inbuilt Noob deflector I - reduces the chance to be accepted or invited to parties by people you don't want to party with anyway.

FuzzyDuck81
12-13-2013, 03:12 AM
I'd probably go with the 17cleric/2paladin/1fighter option, and stick with sword (or, axe) & board - its less melee dps than 2wf or 2hf, but have 1 (if not both) of the shield mastery feats (they add doublestrike as well as PRR) and you'll have a nice mix of healer/melee/caster with a load of extra durability - remember, while optimal is nice enough, there are plenty of things that while not optimal, are still perfectly viable & may fit your personal playstyle preferences better - personally, I'm always happy to trade off having the "best" focussed kind of thing for having more fun & interesting capabilities with a character that fits how i like to play.

axel15810
12-13-2013, 11:19 AM
To each his own.

If it makes you feel better to call other builds gimp, enjoy yourself.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be mean or trying to insult your build. I'm sure it performs just fine in most content. I'm just pointing out facts.

axel15810
12-13-2013, 11:24 AM
And this is also one of the main reasons (for me at least) to splash something on a cleric. An inbuilt Noob deflector I - reduces the chance to be accepted or invited to parties by people you don't want to party with anyway.

Sometimes I feel this way, but other times I don't. I generally like playing with noobs because it makes the game more challenging.

And either way it's really annoying to get declined from that last spot in a raid LFM because the leader wants a pure cleric. I know I was declined because the leader has no clue what they're doing, but it doesn't change the fact that I wanted to get a quick raid completion done and now I can't. It doesn't happen often, but it is annoying when it does.

TheGardes
12-13-2013, 11:55 AM
I'm currently a cleric with 2 monk and 1 fighter splash. I generally don't have problems healing the party, except ::::
- massive damage that kills someone faster than I can target and heal
- toon runs out of my range or around a corner.

The latter happens WAY too often, and people don't seem to understand that clerics can't KNOW where everyone is. While I'm trying to find them, someone else takes too much damage and dies. I'm mostly checking the health bars, targeting, then casting. I haven't had anyone this life complain but I did on my pure cleric life. Clerics get blamed for other people's crappy play, and they're also expected to spend all their resources on scrolls and mana pots. It's a thankless role in DDO.

edit : I will say this, I've noticed some melee players will make an effort to stay w/in my aura, and I greatly appreciate those players!

Doutrinador
12-18-2013, 07:15 AM
I'd probably go with the 17cleric/2paladin/1fighter option, and stick with sword (or, axe) & board - its less melee dps than 2wf or 2hf, but have 1 (if not both) of the shield mastery feats (they add doublestrike as well as PRR) and you'll have a nice mix of healer/melee/caster with a load of extra durability - remember, while optimal is nice enough, there are plenty of things that while not optimal, are still perfectly viable & may fit your personal playstyle preferences better - personally, I'm always happy to trade off having the "best" focussed kind of thing for having more fun & interesting capabilities with a character that fits how i like to play.

Why not go H elf and take the pally diltetante?

stoerm
12-18-2013, 07:42 AM
You'll really have to give more details about the goals you have for your character and what his stats are. There is a huge range from pure caster to pure melee cleric.

Example1: Wis based, str-dumped caster cleric (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/298364-Rs-Pure-classed-Offensive-Caster-Cleric-Build) who wants to whip out a weapon and contribute a little when not casting. 2 fighter will mostly weaken this without much returns. You could splash 1 Wizard 1 Fighter, or perhaps monk for feat and Wis bonus when centered.

Example2: Str based melee divine (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/392008-Horc-Battle-Soul) who has dumped Wisdom. 2 fighter is very viable for this.

It's possible to go for the middle ground as a divine but it's difficult to pull off. If you just want to contribute to melee as a caster cleric, consider staying pure and using debuffing weapons to help out instead.

P.S. If you are a caster cleric at level 4 your options are fairly limited and melee looks very tempting. The wait is worth it when you get bladebarrier, implosion and destruction. Swinging a metal stick will seem laughable compared to the power of your divine fury.