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Seikojin
12-09-2013, 04:47 PM
I was thinking about all the talk on difficulty, xp/min, etc. And it reminded me of the old days, when curse was permanent, and so was stat damage, etc.

I was thinking, with the new quest UI, they could probably add a checkbox that does a few things to ramp up the difficulty, not in the stats way per se, but in the following ways:
1. Little to no shrines (like 1 per quest)
2. Debuffs like blind, curse, and stat damage are permanent until dispelled (like the old days). Works both ways.
3. +2 loot bonus
4. Only selectable on elite difficulty
5. +X% exp boost.
6. Double penalties (death would take the bonus away and apply 10% penalty, etc)

I think this would add a layer of flair and spice that would make permadeath stuff a little more viable, make things a bit more challenging, etc, etc.

Any other ideas for a hardcore mode?

I was also thinking when you die, if you release, it wipes your toon.

Certon
12-09-2013, 04:53 PM
I think your suggestion has merit.

What I'd like to see is the difficulty of Epic Hard to Epic Elite fall in like with Heroic Hard to Heroic Elite, except for there to be a check box on HE and EE to ramp up the challenge to the insane levels HE was at one point and EE currently is. Offer a hardcore streak XP bonus that caps at 100%.

redspecter23
12-09-2013, 05:36 PM
I think if you're limiting the shrines, you should also disallow SP pots. Otherwise you get a situation where players believe Turbine is forcing them to chug pots to make up for the lack of shrines (see oldschool LOB raid). A lack of shrines doesn't mean much to casters if they can just quickly pot up anyway. It only hurts classes with clickies that require rest to recharge.

At the end of the day, I don't think you'll ever find one type of hardcore mode that will please everyone or even a majority. I'd be very interested in a variable penalty/reward system perhaps

Add a list of penalties you can apply to the dungeon with rewards for each penalty. For example

+10 CR to all mobs --- +1 loot level
All mobs have deathward --- +5% xp
All mobs are red named --- +25% Commendation of Valor on end reward list

These are just examples of course, but the idea is that you can go into a dungeon at a disadvantage in order to get more out of it. You can choose beforehand from any or all of the penalties and stack up the bonuses in a more difficult dungeon.

AzB
12-10-2013, 12:12 PM
Not a bad idea, but probably not the best for overall game design and health. I've seen way too many pugs that won't do epic hards, yet die continously. "Oh no, we always do elite!" is what they say when I suggest doing hard. If you create another level of difficulty, it will simply be the de facto standard.

What I think really needs to be done is that the quest design needs more randomization and intelligent ideas. Rather than simply lining up the same monsters with gobs more damage and 200,000k hp, we need monsters that think better. Or at least designers that can place them and make use of the environment, traps, etc to give the monsters more of an edge. Add in the randomness of locations and types of monsters, and it makes for a more careful party because you don't know that there's an owlbear around the corner. It might be nothing, a herd of rabid wildebeest, or a trap.

mobrien316
12-10-2013, 12:53 PM
I have limited experience with permadeath characters (never got any beyond level 10) but I found permadeath to be as difficult as one could possibly want in D&D. The difference in going through a dungeon when you know death will be a momentary inconvenience as compared to when you know a mistake could lead to death which leads to starting all over again with no gear at level 1 is tremendous.

Permadeath is hardcore as far as I'm concerned. How much harder core would you like it?

bsquishwizzy
12-11-2013, 02:50 PM
I was thinking about all the talk on difficulty, xp/min, etc. And it reminded me of the old days, when curse was permanent, and so was stat damage, etc.

I was thinking, with the new quest UI, they could probably add a checkbox that does a few things to ramp up the difficulty, not in the stats way per se, but in the following ways:
1. Little to no shrines (like 1 per quest)
2. Debuffs like blind, curse, and stat damage are permanent until dispelled (like the old days). Works both ways.
3. +2 loot bonus
4. Only selectable on elite difficulty
5. +X% exp boost.
6. Double penalties (death would take the bonus away and apply 10% penalty, etc)

I think this would add a layer of flair and spice that would make permadeath stuff a little more viable, make things a bit more challenging, etc, etc.

Any other ideas for a hardcore mode?

I was also thinking when you die, if you release, it wipes your toon.


I'm all for blind, curse, disease, etc. being permanent until cured / dispelled.

PsychoBlonde
12-13-2013, 04:16 PM
If you're going to call it "hardcore", it should be hardcore--if you die, you get ejected from the game and the character is permanently deleted.

All the other **** doesn't matter when you do quests by running invisible past most of the mobs and ranging the boss down from a safe spot. Give the boss ten billion hp and it won't make the quest "harder" just longer and more tedious. Fewer shrines = more pots. It doesn't make the quest any "harder". Boss hits for 10,000 damage? Just makes melee even more pointless.

If you want the quests to be "harder", throw all your gear out and go at it. You don't need another +100% xp buff, there's a **** ton of xp in the game already.

axel15810
12-13-2013, 04:23 PM
I love the idea

BUT

There's just not enough demand for it to be worth the devs time. Remember, players on the forum are a small minority. Most players find elite difficulty very challenging already.

Ungood
12-14-2013, 05:30 AM
This a very common theme, and has been suggested many times before, from a "hardcore mode" to a "Perma-Death" mode to be allowed with a check box, etc, etc.

Back when everyone was whining about wanting challenge, blah, blah, blah.

Here is what would happen.

They would put it in, and you would have one group that would say it's too easy, another group say it's too hard, and another group that would say it's not what they wanted at all. Then you would have the munchkins complain that they should get some special reward for doing "hardcore" and it would be nothing but problems all over again.

Anyway, I stand by what I said every time this comes up, if they were going to put in a "Hardcore" mode, it should apply a Perma-Death mode to the quest: IE: Raise Shrines don't work, and if you recall while dead, your character is dead and you would need to re-start, anything else is just risk-free joke.