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Thevile
12-05-2013, 10:46 AM
Upgrading my pally

*Warning this post contains extreme wall of text ,balance view recommended*


Hi, recently have started playing ddo again , after a break of almost a year..
And alot have changed since
My most old and played toon is a pure paladin, my first ddo toon,i used the heart of wood to upgrading him from a 28 pts to a 32 , and will son TR him.
Thinking as well in using the +20 heart of wood before the TR, maybe changing to a barbarian, because both the passive and active past live feat seems to one that i can put the best use in a paladin, PL fighter also seems tempting..,
So a little undecided here
I only have access to standard classes/races, so, not much to choose

One of the most reasons i want improve both the toon and the build is that i finally played some EE quest, and is a very different game than EH, currently i solo EN (more like farming it) and pug EH.
Just started attempts to solo EH, still struggling were and there, but finally getting some quests finished. And grows strong the confidence that is manageable to solo EH.
So next “tier “ of my game play will be soloing EH, and PUG EE (i only PUG BTW). And puging EE, bring back a little of the old feeling that when i started playing, 6 random people join group, and chance to wipe is there, (currently i find that maybe except raids, chance to wipe as a pug in EH, is still low ) so EE is were i find that team play means more, and the added chance of a wipe/near wipe just raises the fun factor of playing .

But i digress..




Here is the build

34 pts human 14 paladin 6 fighter
Str-17 ( all level ups +2 tome)
Dex- 8 (+2 tome )
Con-17 ( +3 tome)
Wis-8(+3 tome )
Cha 14 (+3 tome)

Skills
Intimidation, Heal, UMD

Feats
Power attack, PL Barbarian, cleave, improved critical slash, maximize, great cleave, Quicken, 2HF,I2HF, G2HF

Epic feats
Overwhelming critical, Blinding speed

Destiny feats
Perfect 2HF

Twists of fate
Sense weakness, momento swing, fast healing


Primary destiny will be Unyielding Sentinel, (while grouping ) just for the extra treath of against the tide stance and the extra damage and fort seems useful.
For solo play must likely LD, just to speed things a bit.




At the first this seems more like a gimped self healing barb, than a paladin, but this how i like and intend to playing this paladin, intimidate for mobs grab and holding agro with cleaves while contributing with ok dps, on top with self heals sustained by torc/conc opposition
I do not intend to be a tank( that is still a job for the pajamas crew ) just want to be somewhat effective divine fighter with decent self heals and ok damage. That can solo EH reliably and be helpful in EE contend in party wise context (solo EE not an option atm )

This how i see and like to play a paladin, doing damage, having self heals, so more speced divines can have one less party member to worry about, butt when/if things go south, there will be someone that can put that great sword aside grab a shield and turtle up while resurrect and rebuff the fallen.






Concerns

1st Hp, I have not stellar hit points out of ED´s i sit around 650 HP witch seems very low when most fighters and barbs (and even casters ) are sitting now most commonly at around 1k HP and starting to see more and more toons breaking it to almost 1.5 K HP
How to achieve those values (or close to it ) i have no clue

2nd Self heals
Was shocked when in EE i keep failing concentration check, after concentration check, it was never a problem in EH now going to pass it altogether as skill and take quicken instead.
Just struggling here, if this will be a smart move, find concentration still useful in EH for scrolling (mostly heal just to remove stat damage debuffs while fighting, or some critical useful buff that run out)

Another concern is that (except to LoH) the build will be mostly dependant on CMW, so capitalizing on it is a must. Still trying to figure out what the best way will be, seek for gear to improve healing amp, or get potency
Personally i prefer potency i may be wrong but is just feels it gives more ”bang for the buck “ and having reliable healing working on other party members can help a bit a struggling healer.
Ideally would like to have both, but gear wise to me is a dang puzzle how i am going to put heal amp and potency on the same toon, while aiming towards damage and a bit of defenses along with intimidation…

3rd Armor class /Dodge/ PPR
One of the most annoying changes to the game that i find out is that dodge no longer stacks my frontline of defense has heavy armored was dodge/DR and some armor, and this seems kind of outdated .

The new thing seems to be PPR, just haven’t figured it out how to raise his value to levels that it can start to be meaningful. There is no feats that I am aware of that boost this, enhancements if there is one I have not find it, and gear wise seems like something very lacking. Some options here on Ed´s but at firs it just seems to me, that is better put that effort towards damage, than getting so little in form of damage mitigation. Better aiming towards displacement, ghostly, incorporeal, and the little bit of dodge I could manage to get.
Stil…
My paladin swinging a great-axe, and wearing a robe ?
Not going to happen, its just personal taste





So long story short
What are the chances of a paladin inti /Damage orientated (barb wannabe) to be meaningful in EE contend?
Will this work?
Any suggestions to improve this build?
Critique suggestions welcome

Krelar
12-05-2013, 11:06 AM
Alignment restrictions will prevent you from using the LR+20 to change from paladin into barbarian. You would have to use an LR+x to completely get rid of all paladin levels. Change alignment. Then use another LR+x to take barbarian levels.

unbongwah
12-05-2013, 11:20 AM
Fortunately, I would say a pally PL (+5% heal amp) is more useful than a barb PL anyway.

I would also say if you don't take the Shield Mastery feats, don't even bother with the pretense of switching to S&B. Do you have monk? Evasion is kind of a big deal...

PRR is derived from a combination of gear and feats/enhs/EDs: http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR

Enoach
12-05-2013, 11:31 AM
On HP. Much of this is Gear related. Gear of different HP sources as well as Higher Attribute bonuses now exist.

Next take advantage of the multiple Trees you have available with both the Paladin and Fighter Classes. Try out different options.

You won't be able to use the LR+20 to change to barbarian due to the Alignment Restriction (at least not in a single pass). However - Monk for the Extra damage or even fighter for the extra Tactical bonus might be useful.

As for the Destinies - I like playing in US on my paladins, but I have found LD to add a lot more DPS. For my non-Defender Paladin (does not use Sacred Stance) I enjoy FoTW and it's rage like abilities. LD works with both paladins and adds to the damage output. Many useful abilities of US are Low Tier twists.

Also don't count out Draconic (Paladin with SP and a Con-Op for example) and Fatesinger (Songs and ability to increase damage to non-Red named for a short period). Both have some nice abilities that can improve Burst and even AoE damage.

Thevile
12-05-2013, 03:18 PM
Thank you all for the replies

YaY i totally forgot about the alignment restrictions.

Just thought about barbarian PL, because it’s the class that I fell less comfortable out of the melees to solo with and generally play. And I really enjoy playing paladin so getting the past life’s of paladin is something that I will enjoy doing so.
Just saw this as opportunity to get the PL “free”. and some more HP to go along.
Ok its not going to happen now, someday may will

Regarding monk, I can see the benefit of slapshing, (buti don’t have monk ) and understand how useful evasion is (2 level of rogue could give evasion) but not the other cool stuff that monks have
But, just for flavor this pally will always wear mitril heavy armor is just that, a bit of flavor and plain old stubbornness :)

Shield, indeed I do not have any feat for them and I don’t pretend by any means fulfill the tank role, shields are just a safe guard that i like to have, if its time to use a shield in one hand most likely to me is also time to use a scroll on the another, not a weapon. This most likely wont cut throw EE but for other difficulties I find them still useful.

In respect of ED´s wish I could twist Reign unfortunately without an active past life bard that seems not possible. Still is one of ED´s that I actually like a lot.
Draconic I totally overlooked it, I will give it a closer look, and definitely a try. That was a great tip.

bsquishwizzy
12-05-2013, 04:40 PM
But, just for flavor this pally will always wear mitril heavy armor is just that, a bit of flavor and plain old stubbornness :)

Mithril and Adamantine armor types have basically gone the way of the Dodo bird. There are a few out there, but the emphasis on these two types of armor is almost non-existent.

With a pally – a pure one to some extent – your AC and PRR are going to be linked to the SD enhancement trees. And without EDs, your DPS will be laughable. But, you’ll be like the Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a boxer because you could beat on him all day. He won matches because his opponents got tired of beating on him, and passed out.

Same basic rule applies here.


Shield, indeed I do not have any feat for them and I don’t pretend by any means fulfill the tank role, shields are just a safe guard that i like to have, if its time to use a shield in one hand most likely to me is also time to use a scroll on the another, not a weapon. This most likely wont cut throw EE but for other difficulties I find them still useful.

So much of the SD tree is linked to shields that they are almost a necessity. I tried the THF route with swapping to shield for tanking. In Heroic I was basically burning feats for what amounted to marginal flexibility.

You could *possibly* improve your PRR lot in life by slotting an augment in some armor with a blue slot. I’ve done that with one toon. It is sorta “meh.” The problem is that there are really very few sources of increasing PRR for most characters outside of either enhancements or EDs. So it almost forces you to take some of the SD tree just to prevent being mauled.

Epic is a different ballgame. I found my biggest area of weakness when leveling my pally this time around to be lvls 16 to 20. 20 to present gets much easier with the EDs.

Thevile
12-06-2013, 07:14 PM
I was having tunnel vision went I to log in after a longer break, just see the enhance reset and look, were is DM, ? Sacrifice and HeaAmp ? Oh there they are just took them KotC tree Human tree, and move on

Not pay much attention to the SD tree, but it look interesting for S&B ( I have a dwarf cleric that I haven’t play since like …ever he is at 20 I may Tr him and build a pure paladin SD its an interesting idea that I may try to explore.)

And that is correct without decent AC/PPR I will be maimed a lot and hard, but with a decent HP and somewhat reliant self heals Heroic content maybe end up not being so hard. Will have to try to find out.


Now this build is *cough* DPS *cough* orientated paladin , I will be using THF I am not taking the THF line to using B-swords, even less with a shield.
I understand that Paladin is a class is low in the food chain of sustained DPS, it’s a trade off for all the other nice things we get, like saves, self heals, buffs, and burst melee damage.
Personally I am ok with this trade off, still IMO its easier to close the gap in DPS from other classes , than play other class and try to close the gap for what I lose by not playing Paladin.Melee wise so to speak

May not have the sustained damage of a Kensei fighter or barbarian but lest take lvl12 as mile stone

Str at 12 (17 base + 3 tome +3 level ups +6 item +1ench ) = 30
Divine Might will ad +7 (Cha 14 base +3 tome +6 item +1 ench =24 )
Fighter 6 opens to Power surge + 8
With buffs and what not, can achieve 50 Str at 12

Power attack, Great Cleave, Sacrifices and Smites, all are nice add-ons

The DPS, may not be stellar, still I think little above ”laughable” :)

Thevile
12-06-2013, 07:28 PM
Since I cant edit the OP

Reviewing the build, more feat are accessible than those listed
Fighter 6 gives 4 (forget we get one as well at level 2)
And Human gives another, for a total of 12 feats
And since PL barbarian will not be possible, another feat is free

So feat list will be

Power attack, cleave, great cleave, Emp Hea, Improved critical slash, stunning blow, quicken maximize, THF,ITHF,GTHF

Still got one left
Maybe take extend to help with buffs durations or improved sunder to help stunning blow procs,, or just plain toughtness,bc there is nothing else