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Zoda
12-01-2013, 10:26 PM
I loved playing s&b stalwart defender back in u 15/16 and I figured that I may give it another try in the new system, plus I have dreams about an all wf/bf short manned eeLOB (although some monk build with high dodge/shadow fade may eventually work out better as a tank, but I yet have to get a +5 dex tome to make one that I like). This is the first layout of the build, and may go under minor changes if/when I add the gear and get to play it in endgame. The goal of this build is high saves/prr/hp, good melee dps (gets glancing blows with dwarven axe + shield, and very high double strike chance), very high stunning blow dc, and self heals with recon SLA.

Enhancements/destiny setup can be turned around for tanking, this is the max dps/questing setup of the build.

Bladeforged 12 Fighter 6 Paladin 2 Monk

Starting stats: (36 pb)
STR 18
DEX 6
CON 16 (+5 tome required to hit Epic Toughness)
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 16

Feats: (7 normal + 7 fighter + 2 monk, take monk levels early)

Power Attack
Two Handed Fighting
Improved Two Handed Fighting
Greater Two Handed Fighting
Cleave
Great Cleave
Weapon Focus: Slashing
Greater Weapon Focus Slashing
Weapon Specialization
Improved Critical: Slashing
Stunning Blow
Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Axe
Shield Mastery
Improved Shield Mastery

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
---------------- these two just to abuse the bug with Archer's Focus, if it gets fixed, switch to any two from the 3rd epic feat possibilities or just toughness...

Epic/destiny Feats:
Overwhelming Crit
Epic Toughness
Bulwark of Defense/Mithral Body/Improvd Shield Bashing/Improved Fort - whichever you prefer
Perfect Two Handed Fighting
Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (5% main hand ds, I'll yet have to see if it applies the off hand double strike to shield bash, but I doubt it)

Enhancements:

Kensai: (33)
First 4 cores up to stance
Extra Action Boost 3
Tactics DC 3
Hast Boost 3
Exotic Weapon Mastery
Keen Edge

Sacred Defender (14)
First 3 cores up to stance
+25 prr stance
+3 saves stance
+6 str stance

Knight of the Chalice: (11)
+3 turns
+1 smite
Divine Might 3

Bladeforged: (22)
Mechanist 3
Communion of Scribing 3
Warforged Tactics 3
Improved Power Attack 2
Fearsome Presence
Power of the Forge
Weapon Attachment

Main Destiny: Legendary Dreadnought
Twists: Sense Weakness, Legendary Shield Mastery, Primal Scream (pally stance no longer states that it'd prevent rage - fighter defender stance still does, but even if it does, you should be able to drop stance/scream/enter stance, at least it worked the last time I played defender...)

Cetus
12-02-2013, 01:19 AM
Horrible

Eth
12-02-2013, 01:49 AM
...Primal Scream (pally stance no longer states that it'd prevent rage - fighter defender stance still does, but even if it does, you should be able to drop stance/scream/enter stance, at least it worked the last time I played defender...)
Just FYI:
- Pally SaD stance does prevent rage effects like primal scream
- as soon as you enter the stance you lose all rage bonuses retroactively

That being said the stance is complete **** as of now.

Zoda
12-02-2013, 06:44 AM
Just FYI:
- Pally SaD stance does prevent rage effects like primal scream
- as soon as you enter the stance you lose all rage bonuses retroactively

That being said the stance is complete **** as of now.

I used to play both pally and fighter defender around u14-16 and you were able to drop stance, scream then reenter stance and keep the buff. It was not the case with the rage spell or madstone rage. I have no idea if this has been changed or not, but no biggie if I can't get scream, I'll just twist something else. Unfortunately, I can't test it on any of my toons atm.

I agree that in general the stance is bad, but as long as you are using a shield, it grants great bonuses for a total of 14 AP, it is not like I'll ever have to unequip my shield for a healing amp kama or something.

Also, die Cetus!

Eth
12-02-2013, 07:26 AM
I used to play both pally and fighter defender around u14-16 and you were able to drop stance, scream then reenter stance and keep the buff. It was not the case with the rage spell or madstone rage. I have no idea if this has been changed or not, but no biggie if I can't get scream, I'll just twist something else. Unfortunately, I can't test it on any of my toons atm.

I agree that in general the stance is bad, but as long as you are using a shield, it grants great bonuses for a total of 14 AP, it is not like I'll ever have to unequip my shield for a healing amp kama or something.

Also, die Cetus!

Oh, in that case I'm probably wrong here. I tested it with rage (clickies and pots). Didn't know primal scream is handled differently. Can test it later today with primal scream.

Inoukchuk
12-02-2013, 08:52 AM
Oh, in that case I'm probably wrong here. I tested it with rage (clickies and pots). Didn't know primal scream is handled differently. Can test it later today with primal scream.

If that works it salvages stance and allows some very nice stacking of str with power boost, stance, scream for 25ish STR.

Good build, I like it. Wish you could be centered with a shield but... meh. You'll miss some of the paladin buffs (zeal, deathward, longer duration of DF), but easily make up for it by getting keen edge I think. Will you get the 20% HP in stance effect? To me the whole SD tree is for +6str, +20%hp, and +3 saves, so it's very hard for me to spend less than 24 pts in there (to get tier 4 greater defense and swift defense), but I no idea where you'd take the pts from (first thought is 2 pts from kensei and 7 from BF tree). It's probably better as is, sacrificing some defense for offense *shrug*.

Drwaz99
12-02-2013, 09:00 AM
Die. All we need is a red-headed stepchild of Cetus's build running around. Our airship has so many of them on at times it looks likes the Umbrella Corp took over. They are spreading like zombies.

With that said, 2 more lives and I have to join them. Unless you, Zod, make this better! I counting on you!

Wipey
12-02-2013, 09:08 AM
Dropping stance to get Scream bonus has always worked since Motu , with Stalwart at least.

Zoda
12-02-2013, 09:43 AM
If that works it salvages stance and allows some very nice stacking of str with power boost, stance, scream for 25ish STR.

Good build, I like it. Wish you could be centered with a shield but... meh. You'll miss some of the paladin buffs (zeal, deathward, longer duration of DF), but easily make up for it by getting keen edge I think. Will you get the 20% HP in stance effect? To me the whole SD tree is for +6str, +20%hp, and +3 saves, so it's very hard for me to spend less than 24 pts in there (to get tier 4 greater defense and swift defense), but I no idea where you'd take the pts from (first thought is 2 pts from kensei and 7 from BF tree). It's probably better as is, sacrificing some defense for offense *shrug*.

I won't take the +20% hp for random questing, my hp should be good enough without it, if I have to tank something hard (eeLOB) I'll just reset enhancements and destinies.


Die. All we need is a red-headed stepchild of Cetus's build running around. Our airship has so many of them on at times it looks likes the Umbrella Corp took over. They are spreading like zombies.

With that said, 2 more lives and I have to join them. Unless you, Zod, make this better! I counting on you!

The only reason I'm not doing that build is all those damn clones... They made me tr out of Jugg too when they started swarming all over Argo lol. Get me a +5 dex tome, and help me spam bug reports about archer's focus bug, and we can talk about making a better build :)

Nightmanis
12-02-2013, 03:20 PM
Go with Bastard swords, and use First blood. Most doublestrike of any item in the game by 7%. Does that make up for the extra crit multi? No idea. Plus it allows you to wear something better than whatever doublestrike item you were trying for, which I think was on your alche tower shield you had? That was only 6%, so you'd have 9% more.

Zoda
12-02-2013, 03:49 PM
Go with Bastard swords, and use First blood. Most doublestrike of any item in the game by 7%. Does that make up for the extra crit multi? No idea. Plus it allows you to wear something better than whatever doublestrike item you were trying for, which I think was on your alche tower shield you had? That was only 6%, so you'd have 9% more.

Duregar Waraxe of the Weapon Master (+5 exceptional tactics, affectd by headman's chop) is what I used on my old s&b guy with a tripple air alchemical shield, I doubt I'd change that for First Blood. Bastard Swords are for gimps my friends ;)

Nightmanis
12-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Duregar Waraxe of the Weapon Master (+5 exceptional tactics, affectd by headman's chop) is what I used on my old s&b guy with a tripple air alchemical shield, I doubt I'd change that for First Blood. Bastard Swords are for gimps my friends ;)

You'll regret that one!!! Die Zoda.

Cetus
12-02-2013, 06:37 PM
Unless you, Zod, make this better! I counting on you!

He will fail!

Nightmanis
12-02-2013, 07:34 PM
He will fail!

He will succeed if he uses a bastard sword.

Zoda
12-03-2013, 12:55 PM
He will succeed if he uses a bastard sword.

I'd rather fail.

Sokól
12-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Duregar Waraxe of the Weapon Master (+5 exceptional tactics, affectd by headman's chop) is what I used on my old s&b guy with a tripple air alchemical shield, I doubt I'd change that for First Blood. Bastard Swords are for gimps my friends ;)

I like it the D-axe it is just so much cooler than the Bastard sword, did the same level split once before the enhancement pass, good tank but was lacking in self heals but you have reconstruct...

unbongwah
12-03-2013, 03:38 PM
I've been leveling a pure dwarf ftr recently. IMHO, S&B is all about the doublestrike and the only thing which makes S&B DPS semi-passable these days is Block&Cut from Stalwart D. tree (plus Legendary SM plus other DS bonuses, natch). If you're not going for that, then the incentives of S&B go way down, esp. if you have the option of being Yet Another Earth Stance Kensei instead.

Nightmanis
12-03-2013, 06:27 PM
I'd rather fail.

I hate you all.

Zoda
12-04-2013, 09:22 AM
I've been leveling a pure dwarf ftr recently. IMHO, S&B is all about the doublestrike and the only thing which makes S&B DPS semi-passable these days is Block&Cut from Stalwart D. tree (plus Legendary SM plus other DS bonuses, natch). If you're not going for that, then the incentives of S&B go way down, esp. if you have the option of being Yet Another Earth Stance Kensei instead.

I don't see how block and cut is more damage than Keen Edge.


I hate you all.

^^

Drwaz99
12-04-2013, 09:39 AM
I hate you all.

Took you long enough!

TheLegendOfAra
12-05-2013, 08:12 PM
Terrible. All these silly bf fighter builds. Bunch of gimps.