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unbongwah
11-25-2013, 02:02 PM
Thanks to the U19 Enhancement overhaul, PrEs are no longer mutually exclusive, which means we no longer have to build for only one tree. Time for more chocolate-n-peanut butter combos: in this case, Mechanic + Assassin -> Mechassin!

Goals: INT-based TWF Assassin who also has strong repeater DPS from Mechanic
Race: I went drow for the +2 DEX +4 INT. [Also I have a few drow with 2 raider's boxes and I'm looking for some ideas for what to LR them into.]
Stats: enough DEX to take Imp Sneak Atk and Combat Archery (base DEX 21), enough CON not to be a one-hit wonder, the rest into INT. For a less tome-heavy build, consider starting DEX 17 CON 14 INT 18.
Feats: as you'll see, everything went into melee & ranged DPS
Weapons: ideally dual-wield Agony (or Agony+eMidnight) with Needle


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Rogue \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 10
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 20 37
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 10 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Lethality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Deadly Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Heartseeker Poison (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassinate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Leg Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot




Drawbacks: no Improved Crit feats - Agony is keen, but Needle and eMidnight are not. When lvl cap goes to 30, I'd probably add IC:Ranged; or you can swap Precision for IC if you have enough fort bypass from other sources (e.g. Grim Precision).

I could also shift some APs out of Assassin and/or Mechanic into Acrobat; that would let me pick up Sly Flourish, Haste Boost, etc. Heck, take Acrobatics if I also pull a Sireth and just want the novelty of using it too. :) EDIT: I forgot to note that Needle is a light repeater, so once you have that, this build doesn't require hvy repeater prof. and can stop at Targeting Sights.

unbongwah
11-25-2013, 02:39 PM
Reserved

ReaperAlexEU
11-26-2013, 04:22 AM
you can maintain focus by dropping the melee feats. a single dagger still gives you 2 assassination attempts so you lose no insta-kill prowess.

depends on what balance you're trying to strike really. for my mechanic his DPS is still repeaters only, but now i get to enjoy sneaking into melee for a nice insta kill too. i'm always close to the fight anyway as i like to get those sneak attacks with imp precise shot so i have to keep on my toes and watch my aggro carefully. i find this to be a great blend of combat styles as i'm not sat out at max draw distance but i'm still 1 step ahead of the mobs for some free damage mitigation. sneaking in for the instakills is also very satisfying and helps mix the play style up even more.

so really it's just down to what blend of combat you fancy

ReaperAlexEU
11-26-2013, 04:48 AM
here is a 32 pt build version of my mechassin. it needs 2 base points to hit 19 DEX for heroics, or 4 if you plan to continue into epics. obviously a +4 tome is ideal, but 2 levelups for heroics then a +2 tome for epics will be workable. this build is optimised for an enjoyable trip to lvl20, then it can be tweaked when STR is no longer such a limiting factor and UMD has matured. race is flavour, with any other race drop STR by 2. i'm running a 34 pt version of this with a +4 DEX tome and a mabar +5 INT tome, i've dropped STR to 8 with the purple gloves giving 7 and a +2 tome. could drop it a bit more when i work a better tome in. main bonus for my 2nd lifer is more CON thanks to being able to optimise a bit more. running with insightful reflexes but each rogue needs to make that call depending on how their numbers stack up with their own gear.

on the trip to 20 i had started out DEX based so my INT was far from perfect (still high base, but it was a secondary stat) so i know you don't need to max to enjoy assassinating on the trip to 20. you can also get the core mechanic repeater proficiencies and assassinate by lvl14 if you scrimp and save.

i'm at lvl24 now with a 59 DC to assassinate, though that will be short lived as i've now capped shadow dancer and need to move towards the primal sphere for doubleshot, so i'll be back down to 58 as i've been for most of the epic levels so far. that DC is solid in EH gianthold and EE eberron low levels. in shadow dancer i had both shadow form and consume with only 2 INT in the bottom tiers. you can of course focus more on INT but my aim is only EH for end game so i've given myself more wiggle room on the DC. any of the INT based assassin melee builds will be a good base to compare when trying to max the DC.

pro tip, don't automatically get shrouding shot, it's bugged and will not proc on an assassinate. so you have to choose between being able to charge up on assassinate with shrouding strike, or only being able to charge up via cursing with shrouding shot. i found shrouding shot to be annoying to work with and was much happier to charge up with just assassinate so i switch to strike. the only time i curse now is when i'm playing with kobolds as they are too low CR to charge up with assassinate.

oh and one more difference is i have more skill points to play with, so i've grabbed diplo and concentrate as well as being able to max out haggle.

HP's are my biggest bugbear, not because i die a lot but because they just look so low. thanks to my nimble fingers my rogue is really quite survivable, that for me is part of the charm. sometimes it feels like he has teflon coated shoulders when i'm playing recklessly with his aggro.

stats - halfling
edit: drop cha for a 28 point version

str 10
dex 17 (needs lvl up or tome, 2 for heroic, 4 if continuing into epic. tome is ideal as it means more points for INT)
con 12
int 16 (main lvl up here, this boosts DPS and insta-kill, oh, also traps)
wis 8
cha 14

str is high for hauling loot, can be lowered in epics when you have tome+gear
con vs cha, more cha = earlier self healing, can reduce in epics when UMD has matured. i've balanced being able to raise dead of hjeel scroll a few levels earlier over HP total. 12 CON will get you to cap quite happily even though it will feel wrong.

feats

1 point blank shot
3 exotic: heavy repeater (swap to rapid reload at lvl12)
6 precision
9 precise shot
12 imp crit: ranged
15 imp precise shot (req DEX 19)
18 toughness OR insightful reflex (hp vs reflex save if INT is higher than DEX)
21 imp sneak attack (req 21 DEX)
24 combat archery (req 21 DEX)
26 ???
27 ??? (haste? rapid shot? item vs feat)
28 doubleshot (needs primal destinies)

skills

balance
bluff
disable device
hide
jump
move silently
open lock
search
spot
tumble
umd

enhancements

mechanic
core 1-4

tier 1
mechanics rank 3
awareness rank 1
xbow training

tier 2
wand mastery rank 3
xbow training

tier 3
umd tier 3
int

tier 4
int

assassin
all cores

tier 1
sneak attack training
stealthy rank 3

tier 2
venomed blades rank 3
sneak attack training

tier 3
critical accuracy rank 3
shadow dagger rank 3
sneak attack training
int

tier 4
critical damage rank 3
killer rank 3
sneak attack training
int

tier 5
assassinate
measure rank 3

acrobat
core 1

tier 1
faster sneaking rank 3

halfling
core to even out DEX

there will be a few points spare to spend as you wish.

unbongwah
11-26-2013, 09:09 AM
you can maintain focus by dropping the melee feats. a single dagger still gives you 2 assassination attempts so you lose no insta-kill prowess.
Except that's backwards from what my original focus was: I started out with a typical TWF Assassin, then asked myself if I could squeeze in enough ranged feats and APs into Mechanic to do good repeater DPS without gimping melee (much); I didn't start out with a repeater rogue (which frankly are still overshadowed by arties, IMHO) and try to retrofit Assassin into her.

Still, I appreciate the input. Like I said, I'm just kicking around ideas for what to LR my drow into. :)

ReaperAlexEU
11-26-2013, 10:00 AM
Except that's backwards from what my original focus was: I started out with a typical TWF Assassin, then asked myself if I could squeeze in enough ranged feats and APs into Mechanic to do good repeater DPS without gimping melee (much); I didn't start out with a repeater rogue (which frankly are still overshadowed by arties, IMHO) and try to retrofit Assassin into her.

Still, I appreciate the input. Like I said, I'm just kicking around ideas for what to LR my drow into. :)

ahh, that makes a lot of sense. maybe all you need is a name change? mechassin makes me think mechanic first with a side order of assassin.

hmm, the trouble with going assassin at the front is most combinations sound rude!

sass however is much more workable, especially on a female toon

sassinmech
sassinic

instead of needle you could focus on a radiance repeater to blind as many mobs as you can before they get into melee range. no sign of it returning to loot gen just yet but as it's on crit with no DC it's just as viable in EE as it is any other setting. imp precise shot is a godsend for ranged combat and with a bit of work gives you reliable AoE abilities. naturally you'll want a doublecross bow for lvl16-20, and i bet with that puppy in your arms you won't feel like doing much melee until it's DC starts to fade :). we're talking at level heroic Tor on elite, soloing the first fight with full aggro yet getting the helpless bonus to damage and all your sneak attacks. that repeater is god mode!

it's a shame you have to wait till epics for imp precise shot. picking that up at min level is something i always look forward to. what if you flipped things on their head and focused on the repeater during the heroics where it's alpha strike is at it's peak performance then switched focus to melee when the mobs HP rise too high? a triple shot of sneak attack damage puts a massive dent in heroic mobs. would probably make more sense build wise but i'm guessing it's not going to match the gameplay you're aiming for.

as for those fancy pants arties, i've yet to be trounced by one in PUGs. maybe they are too busy watching the swirly thing on their wrist to be effective in a dungeon but my rogue hasn't felt outclassed by them in the slightest. really should take one to 20 at some point, but all my toons are on hold at the mo while i polish off my mechassin :)

unbongwah
11-26-2013, 11:14 AM
ahh, that makes a lot of sense. maybe all you need is a name change? mechassin makes me think mechanic first with a side order of assassin.

hmm, the trouble with going assassin at the front is most combinations sound rude!
Yeah, "Asschanic" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? :cool:

instead of needle you could focus on a radiance repeater to blind as many mobs as you can before they get into melee range.
IIUC, Imp Deception will work on ranged as well as melee atks and I was probably going to go for Golden Guile on this build. Plus like I said, I've got a couple of raider's boxes, so the idea was to claim a Needle + Agony.

naturally you'll want a doublecross bow for lvl16-20
Sadly, I've run Spinner dozens of times and I don't think I've ever even seen a Doublecross drop, much less pull it for myself. :(

what if you flipped things on their head and focused on the repeater during the heroics where it's alpha strike is at it's peak performance then switched focus to melee when the mobs HP rise too high?
The toon I'm thinking of LRing is already lvl 19, so feat order doesn't matter much; that's certainly a viable alternative for a leveling build, though, and I may consider delaying GTWF or Precision to lvl 21 just so I can have IPS now. :)

However, I just remembered this isn't one of the toons I farmed a Mabar tome on (not enough time), so I don't actually have a +5 DEX tome yet - D'OH! :o

ReaperAlexEU
11-26-2013, 12:23 PM
Yeah, "Asschanic" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? :cool:

IIUC, Imp Deception will work on ranged as well as melee atks and I was probably going to go for Golden Guile on this build. Plus like I said, I've got a couple of raider's boxes, so the idea was to claim a Needle + Agony.

yup, works well enough, but it's not enough to completely lock down a mob even with weapon+item combined. when you mix the bluffs in you can still get a very good % of your sneak attacks on the boss when soloing. no idea how this compares to TWF which i assume is faster than a repeater.

well worth slotting into your layout but it's not going to be effective crowd control on trash with just an item.


Sadly, I've run Spinner dozens of times and I don't think I've ever even seen a Doublecross drop, much less pull it for myself. :(

noooo, say it isn't so! i've put them up for roll before now and haven't farmed that chain at all! maybe it's easier to get on heroics as i've done that a few times at level to unlock eveningstar? it's got to be the best repeater i have ever used, far better than a min lvl 10 paralyser as not only is is CC but it is also helpless damage bonus and sneak attacks! ahh well, you've only got 1 level to really enjoy it so maybe something to prioritise should you ever TR.


The toon I'm thinking of LRing is already lvl 19, so feat order doesn't matter much; that's certainly a viable alternative for a leveling build, though, and I may consider delaying GTWF or Precision to lvl 21 just so I can have IPS now. :)

ahh, then things are much easier to slot in :). i guess when it comes to GTWF vs imp precise shot that is really going to be down to how you see yourself spending most of your time. i'm loving precision too but i didn't grab that till i LRed at lvl20.


However, I just remembered this isn't one of the toons I farmed a Mabar tome on (not enough time), so I don't actually have a +5 DEX tome yet - D'OH! :o

d'oh! and finding those extra build points to go for 17 DEX and a +4 off the store is also going to be tricky. personally i dumped my mabar on INT and did the +4 store for DEX. ahh well, maybe when mabar rears it's ugly head again :)

what if you did do a TR to get more build points? that would make it a lot easier to fit with a lower DEX tome. though i would insist you get your mitts on the doublecross :p. i find the trip to lvl20 as a mechanic in general very entertaining, even more so this last time as i've been learning how to assassinate. there is something inherently fun about sticking 3 bolts in the back of a mob and either outright killing it or leaving it on its last legs.

bsquishwizzy
11-26-2013, 01:04 PM
The only issue I can see with this is play style. Dividing your combat between a repeater-monkey and a close-up assassin is hard to balance. One deals with almost intimate combat, and the other maintains a huge distance. My thought is that you’ll end up favoring one over the other, making the investment in one almost pointless.

Also, since you are sacrificing STR, losing crits might be an impediment to your DPS. I’m not a big stat guy, but that would be my assumption. I also saw a noticeable improvement to melee DPS by taking GTWF.

I look at this like I look at my Ranger, who is an AA. I said to myself, “well, when they get close enough where the bow is impractical, I’ll switch to melee weapons.” Except, I rarely ever bother top switching to melee weapons on my ranger, and stick with the bow. It’s just the groove that I fell into when playing that specific class.

Plus, as dumb as this sounds, you end up putting a sizable investment into your weapons pre-epic and in epic levels. My assassin has all sorts of short swords / rapiers / and daggers to work with. My ranger has all sorts of bows to use. Having to invest in both I foresee being an inventory issue.

Maybe it’s just me, but that’s how I see this build ending up. You’ll favor one or the other, but not both.

ReaperAlexEU
11-26-2013, 01:33 PM
The only issue I can see with this is play style. Dividing your combat between a repeater-monkey and a close-up assassin is hard to balance. One deals with almost intimate combat, and the other maintains a huge distance. My thought is that you’ll end up favoring one over the other, making the investment in one almost pointless.

Also, since you are sacrificing STR, losing crits might be an impediment to your DPS. I’m not a big stat guy, but that would be my assumption. I also saw a noticeable improvement to melee DPS by taking GTWF.

I look at this like I look at my Ranger, who is an AA. I said to myself, “well, when they get close enough where the bow is impractical, I’ll switch to melee weapons.” Except, I rarely ever bother top switching to melee weapons on my ranger, and stick with the bow. It’s just the groove that I fell into when playing that specific class.

Plus, as dumb as this sounds, you end up putting a sizable investment into your weapons pre-epic and in epic levels. My assassin has all sorts of short swords / rapiers / and daggers to work with. My ranger has all sorts of bows to use. Having to invest in both I foresee being an inventory issue.

Maybe it’s just me, but that’s how I see this build ending up. You’ll favor one or the other, but not both.

hmm, some of this just doesn't fit. for example my mechanic is generally stood right next to the melee fight, without my sneak attack damage my DPS is very poor. so he won't be out at a huge distance, generally just a little further out than your average buff radius thanks the the bonuses to point blank range. as for the actual fighting i only ever swap to melee to assassinate, i then swap back to my repeater for regular DPS, so yes my play is very polarised.

that said we are talking about a character that already has a nice rack of melee weapons, and now has the needle to add in some extra options. so i can see why there is a lean towards melee and ranged. i guess ultimately the character will just have to be played and then if there is a strong draw to one combat style the other feats can be specced out.

i followed the same path as your ranger with my original mechanic. i took weapon finesse as a backup plan B incase i had to be serious and do some regular DPS. then later i picked up nat ganns staff for the same reason. in my 3rd revision i neither had weapon finesse nor nat ganns staff in my backpack. ok things are a little different now since the enhancement pass as i have a single dagger for assassination attempts, but i have no melee for doing DPS with.

unbongwah
11-26-2013, 02:58 PM
noooo, say it isn't so! i've put them up for roll before now and haven't farmed that chain at all!
It's Murphy's Law of gear grinding: whatever you want is the last thing to drop...until you no longer want it, ofc. I remember farming Blockade Buster like 20 times in a row for a Sheshka mark; hit ransack and still didn't get it, had to try again the following week (got it that time, IIRC). And remember this quest has 3-5 chests, any one of which can drop the mark, so that's at least 60 rolls of the die. Fast forward 3 years to this week and I'm running BB for the first time on a first-lifer and the very first chest drops a Sheshka...which is useless to this char. :rolleyes:

Also, since you are sacrificing STR, losing crits might be an impediment to your DPS. I’m not a big stat guy, but that would be my assumption. I also saw a noticeable improvement to melee DPS by taking GTWF.
STR is irrelevant, as this build uses INT for ranged DPS (Targeting Sights) and instakills (Assassinate); and DEX for melee DPS (Dagger in the Back). Had I gone STR- rather than INT-based, I would've wound up with better melee DPS but lower ranged DPS & Assassinate DCs - the eternal dilemma for Assassins. Since I already have plenty of STR-based toons, I wanted an INT-based rogue for a change to feel more, well, assassin-y.

Since Agony is keen and will be my primary melee weapon, I'm more concerned about dropping Power Atk; I like having both PA & Precision on my rogues and switching between them as need be. But it's not a build-breaker.

Like I said, I want IC:Ranged for Needle, but not sure what I'd drop to take it. So here's hoping the lvl 30 cap comes along soon to fix that dilemma for me! :)

Saekee
12-09-2013, 04:22 PM
Thanks to the U19 Enhancement overhaul, PrEs are no longer mutually exclusive, which means we no longer have to build for only one tree. Time for more chocolate-n-peanut butter combos: in this case, Mechanic + Assassin -> Mechassin!

Goals: INT-based TWF Assassin who also has strong repeater DPS from Mechanic
Race: I went drow for the +2 DEX +4 INT. [Also I have a few drow with 2 raider's boxes and I'm looking for some ideas for what to LR them into.]
Stats: enough DEX to take Imp Sneak Atk and Combat Archery (base DEX 21), enough CON not to be a one-hit wonder, the rest into INT. For a less tome-heavy build, consider starting DEX 17 CON 14 INT 18.
Feats: as you'll see, everything went into melee & ranged DPS
Weapons: ideally dual-wield Agony (or Agony+eMidnight) with Needle


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Rogue \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 296
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 10
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 20 37
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 10 12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: INT
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Lethality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Deadly Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Heartseeker Poison (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassinate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Improved Detection (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Thunderstone (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Leg Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: INT
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot




Drawbacks: no Improved Crit feats - Agony is keen, but Needle and eMidnight are not. When lvl cap goes to 30, I'd probably add IC:Ranged; or you can swap Precision for IC if you have enough fort bypass from other sources (e.g. Grim Precision).

I could also shift some APs out of Assassin and/or Mechanic into Acrobat; that would let me pick up Sly Flourish, Haste Boost, etc. Heck, take Acrobatics if I also pull a Sireth and just want the novelty of using it too. :) EDIT: I forgot to note that Needle is a light repeater, so once you have that, this build doesn't require hvy repeater prof. and can stop at Targeting Sights.

Maybe go human instead for the feat Rapid Shot? I understand that it stacks with Rapid Reload. I know for personal reasons you wished to use drow but was just thinking as general advice.

unbongwah
12-11-2013, 09:11 AM
Maybe go human instead for the feat Rapid Shot? I understand that it stacks with Rapid Reload. I know for personal reasons you wished to use drow but was just thinking as general advice.
Well, apart from the fact I'm LRing an existing drow char, going drow gives me +2 DEX +4 INT (w/enhs), both of which are important. Still, 32-pt human can start DEX 16 CON 14 INT 18, so it has more HPs, an extra feat, Dmg Boost, probably some heal amp, and only -3 INT. Although instead of Rapid Shot, I think I would take IC:Ranged by moving Precision to lvl 6, since like I said, Needle isn't keen but Agony is.

Tagedieb
12-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Hey There, i have a question to the mechanic of repeating crossbows; i studied the forum and found that none of the Repeater rogues has taken the hasteboost. Is there a reason for this apart from the shortness in Ap-points? And what about other attackspeed buffs like haste and their impact on xbows?

According to my thoughts a human mechassin should consider hasteboost to pop it with the human dmg boost, useful for melee and ranged likewise. Also i would consider quickdraw perhaps, as u will change your weapons often, both actionboosts are used more fastly and it may improve the flow/feeling of the constant switch between melee, assassination and repeaters.

Secondly do you think a splashed mechassassin is viable, especially accorcing to the assassination dc in EH and EE? Playing with the ideas of a splashed mechassassin for a while now, would at least solve the featproblems

obscure.jester
12-13-2013, 05:44 PM
STR is irrelevant, as this build uses INT for ranged DPS (Targeting Sights) and instakills (Assassinate); and DEX for melee DPS (Dagger in the Back). Had I gone STR- rather than INT-based, I would've wound up with better melee DPS but lower ranged DPS & Assassinate DCs - the eternal dilemma for Assassins. Since I already have plenty of STR-based toons, I wanted an INT-based rogue for a change to feel more, well, assassin-y.

Since Agony is keen and will be my primary melee weapon, I'm more concerned about dropping Power Atk; I like having both PA & Precision on my rogues and switching between them as need be. But it's not a build-breaker.

Like I said, I want IC:Ranged for Needle, but not sure what I'd drop to take it. So here's hoping the lvl 30 cap comes along soon to fix that dilemma for me! :)

agrees on STR being irrelevant and I'd add you another thing: 2WF becomes irrelevant too. my mechassassin build has no 2wf line feats nor PA. went for these feats instead:
H: precision / PB shot / rapid shot / rapid reload / precise shot / imp pre shot / imp crit ranged / insightful reflex

E: imp sneak attack / combat archery / holy strikes / blinding speed / doubleshot

My opinion is this build isnt made for melee purposes except when on assassinate duties (which is covered by the 65+ DC). mostly, you will be ranged. and with ranged focused feats your xbow will be a cannon, dealing much more dmg than you'll ever do with 2wf including doublestrikes and offhands. my average dmg per bolt non crit is around 100, which means 300ish per shot, thus I'd want to shot as fast as I can (feats, gilvaenor set, needle).

when pewpewing becomes a problem, skills step in: crippling shot, pin, otto's whistle, thunderstone: stop the aggro and back to xbow. if this also goes wrong somehow, click diplo and back to point one. really, I seldom find myself hitting mobs in non sneak melee. when it happens, I try to rely on weapons like blade of the high priestess / sacrifical dagger / epic phiarlan spydagger, together with EMG (currently using high priestess / sacrifical), in order to have more chances to paralyze/instakill or at least to inflict negs on target since agony can "only" attempt to disintegrate.

another note: needle is a light repeater but silver sling is not. heavy xbow proficiency might be worth being a low cost enhancement if your plans include abbot, epic GH and some misc like epic rayum.

Im really enjoying the build, questing is very smooth, dmg is high and scroll power is awesome. a great versatility for every situation.

Corwynn_Maelstrom
01-27-2014, 04:29 AM
Played this a bit as a returning player. Until you get Dagger in the Back your damage is horrible. (So, mine still is.)

Disconcerting that a +1 tome (required for fairly low level acquisition of ITWF) is something like 150,000 plat on my server. (That seems like a ridiculous amount of money. Maybe I'm imagining things, but my level 13 character only has 65,000...so, yeah.)

On top of that, the DDO Store doesn't even seem to sell +5 tomes any more...so I'm not entirely sure how it is even feasible to play this build without having acquired one in game. (I suppose with the alternate 17 DEX start it would be possible to buy a +4 tome from the store though...shame I didn't do that, LOL.)

I mention these things primarily because I found the build because it had been pointed out to some new/returning players. Given that as a returning player I find the build prohibitive, if not impossible as written (and still pretty spendy at around $20 in TP) I felt someone should say something in the thread, so that at least there's a slight warning of the potential difficulties.

In any case, it seems like an interesting build and all, I just don't know how it's even possible in its base config without already having a high level presence.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 08:36 AM
Played this a bit as a returning player. Until you get Dagger in the Back your damage is horrible. (So, mine still is.)
That's one of the drawbacks to every DEX-based melee build, unfortunately. If you have Vet I status unlocked, you start @ lvl 4 and can skip the worst of it; not so fortunate if you have to start from lvl 1, though. In hindsight, I might move Precision to lvl 3, Rapid Reload to lvl 6, and PBS to lvl 12. It largely depends on whether you're relying on melee or ranged at lower lvls.

If you have 3BC, the Sky Pirate's Dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sky_Pirate%27s_Dagger) is darn near ideal for leveling; note the higher base dmg and x3 crits. Unfortunately, I haven't had too much luck farming them for alts, despite dozens of attempts. :(

On top of that, the DDO Store doesn't even seem to sell +5 tomes any more...so I'm not entirely sure how it is even feasible to play this build without having acquired one in game.
Well, you can farm one up for free during Mabar, but that's only once a year, so it doesn't do you any good right now.

Alternatively, you can start higher DEX lower INT and/or put some lvl-ups into DEX to hit the pre-reqs: namely DEX 17 for ITWF/GTWF, DEX 19 for IPS, and DEX 21 for Combat Archery. It's all a question of what resources you have available. This build presumes a best-case scenario of a +5 DEX tome to start. It's also presented in its final form, rather than what's optimal for leveling, since it was a hypothetical rebuild for a char who's already lvl 20.

Saekee
01-27-2014, 09:24 AM
If you have 3BC, the Sky Pirate's Dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sky_Pirate%27s_Dagger) is darn near ideal for leveling; note the higher base dmg and x3 crits. Unfortunately, I haven't had too much luck farming them for alts, despite dozens of attempts. :(


In terms of helping with lower heroic leveling with this build, or similar ones: if you are farming for the Sky Pirate's Dagger for Dex melee builds, try getting the Tiefling Assassin's Blade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tiefling_Assassin%27s_Blade) as well. It has the advantage of being usable by dark monks. Also it has the expanded crit range (15-20x2) and also wounding+poison.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 10:44 AM
Good point: I was thinking of Knife Spec, but you can't take that until lvl 12. Do you know if the Poison dmg on the Assassin's Blade stacks w/Venomed Blades?

Saekee
01-27-2014, 12:52 PM
Good point: I was thinking of Knife Spec, but you can't take that until lvl 12. Do you know if the Poison dmg on the Assassin's Blade stacks w/Venomed Blades?

Just ran in and tested it--yes, they do stack

Corwynn_Maelstrom
01-27-2014, 01:25 PM
I do have vet status, I can start at level 4. I chose not to because I wanted a) to run all the dungeons on Korthos for favor (can you go back?) and b) I wanted to get back into the game, and felt that making things too easy on myself wouldn't help. I didn't anticipate how difficult the damage issue would be (Cainith Crystal hard was stupidly difficult) when using daggers and using the -1 str damage "bonus"...

As I said, the alternative build offers enough dex to keep you good until later levels when you can use a +4 tome (which at least currently exist on the store...though I note that the Wiki says they are "limited time"...however accurate that may be) and you get the advantage of more HP (which, to be honest, isn't exactly a "bad" thing) at the cost of Int (DC and the like, and skill points you don't "need" to be effective) to boot.

So it's not a "broken" build. It's just...uh...difficult the way it happens to be presented as primary.

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 01:33 PM
Yes, you can go back to Korthos on a Vet I/II char; you can't qualify for Bravery Bonuses on lvl 1 quests, but there's more than enough XP at low lvls already. Still, I applaud you for not taking the easy way out. :)

Despite being a first-life drow, this was never intended to be a newbie-friendly build; as if the +5 tome wasn't a giveaway! It was just me posting a build looking from feedback from others who had done something similar. If I were trying to make it more newbie-friendly, I'd start 8 / 17 / 14 / 18 / 8 / 10: a +2 DEX tome qualifies you for IPS (all chars get one free for hitting 1,750 Favor (http://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor) although you need at least a few P2P adventure packs to do that); a +2->+3 DEX upgrade tome and the lvl 20 stat pt into DEX gets you DEX 21 for CA & Imp Sneak Atk. Only costs you 3 pts of INT and nets you +2 CON as well.

Corwynn_Maelstrom
01-27-2014, 01:41 PM
...a +2->+3 DEX upgrade tome and the lvl 20 stat pt into DEX...

To be clear, a +2 to +3 upgrade tome works on a tome you have already used?

unbongwah
01-27-2014, 02:31 PM
Correct: they're also a bit less expensive in the DDO Store than a full tome; +3s are 895 TPs, +2->+3s are 495 TPs.

Corwynn_Maelstrom
01-27-2014, 03:12 PM
Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to end up going with something a little bit easier to level for now, and I'll revisit the idea of being sneaky and stabby later on if I've continued to play.

ReaperAlexEU
01-27-2014, 10:23 PM
hey there, unbongwah, how is the build going? how much time do you find yourself splitting between melee and range (assassinations excluded)?

my mechassassin is now 28 and i'm working on farming some better gear (grr, EMG is elusive as ever!). i've got my DC up to 63 with max measure the foe which is working a treat, though i've not tried stormholm yet (i did explore the wilderness solo but that hardly counts as a DC test). still messing with my destiny, i've dropped both epic moments and am currently wondering how much lithe i need as i'm not sure if i'll make a robe or armour when i get the bits for my flawless black dragon suit. i should probably be in shiradi for the doubleshot bonus should i epic TR, but i spent so much time farming destinies to unlock the doubleshot feat that i'm enjoying being back in shadow dancer right now. 2 mill short of a primal reincarnation and not an ounce of inclination to go for it. maybe next year :)

i'm really happy with how my guy has turned out and am interested to hear your views on a build with a lot more melee mixed in.

unbongwah
01-28-2014, 08:55 AM
hey there, unbongwah, how is the build going? how much time do you find yourself splitting between melee and range (assassinations excluded)?
I've yet to LR my char into this, because I belatedly realized she didn't have a +5 DEX tome after all. :oFile under "too many alts, not enough time"...

ReaperAlexEU
01-29-2014, 05:54 AM
I've yet to LR my char into this, because I belatedly realized she didn't have a +5 DEX tome after all. :oFile under "too many alts, not enough time"...

hehehe, d'oh! i went for the +5 on INT for mine and grabbed a +4 DEX from the store (yay for VIP's free TP!), that was the only +5 tome i farmed during mabar though i have a few chars which have a run or 2 under their belts so i can polish them off next season.

Choopak
02-23-2014, 12:45 PM
Sup guys

I'm running a triple TR drow assassin, base on this build.. .and it's hard! Only level 4, no repeater yet...
Archer stance is nice, so is poison stance, but when i have aggro, it's bad!
Also, lots of mobs see me when i stealth, might be gear?? (skills are plentiful and max out)
Anyway, was wandering if 2-3 levels of artificer would help... would lose cap stone, but gain:
Free weapon prof, rapid reload, summon bolt!!, runearm use for added damage and effect, and insightful strike for INT to hit...
Overall not bad for 3 levels, still be 17 rogue so assassinate DC is not hurt badly.
Any toughs? never played a single class rogue before...
Thanks

Belgarath22
04-14-2015, 12:34 PM
I think I will test something like this too.
What would be a nice class split to have more features? Monk?
I could build this one with a 32 or maybe 34 points build.

unbongwah
04-14-2015, 01:34 PM
What would be a nice class split to have more features? Monk?
Ftr or monk splash for extra feat(s) is the obvious choice, but I'm reluctant to give up the capstone.

The original build has been rendered obsolete by all the changes since U19 came out. CitW weapons have been outdone by Thunderforged & other gear, so I wouldn't want to settle for Agony (at least in endgame). That puts greater strain on feats, though, so I would probably switch to human.

APs are really tight, too: Harper is a big boon for INT Assassins, but it also stretches your APs out further. Assuming I stuck with a melee primary / ranged secondary focus, I'd want 41 APs for Assassin (T5s & capstone), 31 APs for Mechanic (Expert Builder), 12 APs for Harper (KtA + Strategic Combat), 3 APs for Acrobat (Fast Movement), and 3 APs for human (Dmg Boost, heal amp), which comes to...90 APs. :p Oddly enough, it's actually easier to pull this off if you don't have Harper, but your melee DPS takes a hit, too.

So, bearing in mind I haven't made up my mind whether this concept is even still a good idea anymore, here's one possible build for 1st TR for someone w/out Harper:


Mechassin 2.0
Rogue 20
True Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt. . .Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8 . . . +2. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 15 . . . +6. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 16 . . . +2. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 18 . . . +2. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8 . . . +2. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8 . . . +2. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Precision
.6. . . . : Precise Shot
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
13 Rogue. : Opportunist
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16 Rogue. : Crippling Strike
18. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
19 Rogue. : Defensive Roll
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Combat Archery
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (3 AP)


Damage Boost

Improved Recovery



Assassin (43 AP)


Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality, Deadly Shadow

Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Sneak Attack Training
Venomed Blades III, Bleed Them Out III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Killer III, Weakening Strikes
Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Knife Specialization, Light Armor Mastery II



Mechanic (31 AP)


Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder

Sharpshooter, Thunderstone III
Sharpshooter, Improved Traps III, Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Sharpshooter, Ooze Flask III, Use Magical Device III
Fletching III, Leg Shot



Thief-Acrobat (3 AP)


Staff Control

Fast Movement




Adding Harper would mean a big boost to melee DPS from Strategic Combat + Know the Angles; but the APs for it have to come mostly from Mechanic, and without Expert Builder, my interest in using xbows goes down. I'm wondering if it might be better to go with throwing daggers instead of repeaters: significantly lower RoF, but Knife Spec applies to them, making them 18-20/x3 weapons; that partially offsets not being able to afford Expert Builder.

Belgarath22
04-14-2015, 06:03 PM
I want to test something like that in other server, where I have the harper tree unlocked. I have a lvl 11/2 rogue/fighter that I want to lesser reincarnate...

Race: half-elf, 32 points ( I would get that 2 fighter level again as I only have a +0 Lesser Heart of Wood)

Tomes:
Str: +2
Dex: +3
Con: 0
Wis: +2
Cha: 0
and +5 tome of choice.

I was about to roll it now but I ll wait for more tips as I am not sure if I will go to level 28. And I still need to unlock most of the epic features you listed. I would like to have decent melee and ranged. So I want to roll something similar to your build, do you think it may work with this guy, race and tomes I have?

Thx!!

unbongwah
04-15-2015, 10:01 AM
Do you remember what lvls you took your ftr splashes? That's gonna affect which feats you're able to take, due to BAB and/or stat pre-reqs.

I took all of the must-have melee feats on my 2.0 build; so on a splashed build I would use the extra feats for more ranged DPS. On my wishlist would be Rapid Reload, IC:Ranged, and Rapid Shot, in that order of priority.

EDIT: oh, just noticed you're HE, which means you'd lose a feat vs human. :( In that case, I'd use the bonus feats to add Rapid Reload or IC:Ranged, depending on where those ftr lvls are.

Belgarath22
04-16-2015, 01:35 PM
Do you remember what lvls you took your ftr splashes? That's gonna affect which feats you're able to take, due to BAB and/or stat pre-reqs.

I took all of the must-have melee feats on my 2.0 build; so on a splashed build I would use the extra feats for more ranged DPS. On my wishlist would be Rapid Reload, IC:Ranged, and Rapid Shot, in that order of priority.

EDIT: oh, just noticed you're HE, which means you'd lose a feat vs human. :( In that case, I'd use the bonus feats to add Rapid Reload or IC:Ranged, depending on where those ftr lvls are.

I dont remember where I took the lvls, but I think I took one lvl at lvl 2 and the other at lvl 7-8 maybe...
As a half-elf, the best dilettance to take is artificer? Although as I can be proff with heavy repeaters later I could do a feat change for a fvs or cleric diletance once I hit the wisdom or charisma I need??
I was also thinking is I should go deeper in the split now that I already have 2 fighter levels, or would be best to go 18/2?
Thanks!!

P.S. I forgot to mention that my alignment is true neutral

unbongwah
04-17-2015, 02:10 PM
I dont remember where I took the lvls, but I think I took one lvl at lvl 2 and the other at lvl 7-8 maybe...
Okay, that's too soon to use either ftr feat for IC:Ranged, unfortunately. So I would probably just follow the feat progression in my human build above; when you find yourself with an extra feat slot, you can take Rapid Reload.

As a half-elf, the best dilettance to take is artificer?
TBH, none of the HE dilly feats are that great on a rog, at least not when your core stats are INT, DEX, and CON. But because of how stat-constrained this build is, I can't really see putting 5 pts into WIS or CHA for the cleric or FvS dilly, respectively, when you'll be able to UMD wands & scrolls eventually. Arty dilly grants all xbow profs (not a big deal in the long run since you'll have them at rog lvl 12, but it means you can use hvy repeaters from lvl 1), +2 UMD +1 CL with scrolls (and pots & wands in you invest in HE tree), and access to an extra +1 INT enh.

Although as I can be proff with heavy repeaters later I could do a feat change for a fvs or cleric diletance once I hit the wisdom or charisma I need??
No: you have to have at least 13 in the relevant stat at lvl 1. You used to be able to feat-swap your dilly after taking a tome (e.g., start WIS 10, take a +3 WIS tome at lvl 11, swap to cleric dilly); but Turbine closed that bug / exploit ages ago. :(

I was also thinking is I should go deeper in the split now that I already have 2 fighter levels, or would be best to go 18/2?
If it works right, Expert Builder is definitely a must-have on a mostly-rogue Mechanic; Lethality is pretty nice, too, and applies to both melee & ranged. While taking, say, ftr 4 for another feat is tempting, I think you give up too much to get it. So I would stick with 18/2; giving up the capstone was bad enough.

Belgarath22
04-18-2015, 12:30 PM
If it works right, Expert Builder is definitely a must-have on a mostly-rogue Mechanic; Lethality is pretty nice, too, and applies to both melee & ranged. While taking, say, ftr 4 for another feat is tempting, I think you give up too much to get it. So I would stick with 18/2; giving up the capstone was bad enough.

Nice to know I think I will tr to a pure rogue as soon I hit 20. Thx for advices!

VinoeWhines
05-09-2015, 02:33 AM
I've been running a level 28 pure rogue, assassin heavy repeater build. I'll eventually try to post a build, but to give you an idea what you can accomplish that I've done was running EE TOR, soloing the first part with no pets or hirelings, just using Shadow Manipulation, twisting cocoon, and twisting improved saves and an pale lavender type spell absorption item(jeweled cloak). I don't have a mortal fear weapon yet, but having that on daggers or kukris, would help your melee option(blinding and paralyzing fear with another 1st degree burns and dragons edge), along with agony.

unbongwah
05-09-2015, 11:50 AM
While still doable, this build has been rendered obsolete in a few ways:

Predates Thunderforged weapons: designed to use Agony (http://ddowiki.com/page/Agony,_the_Knife_in_the_Dark), which back then was the best epic dagger; and since it's keen, you could skip IC:Pierce without sacrificing melee DPS. But TF weapons have rendered CitW weapons inferior choices for endgame, which means you really want IC:Slash/Pierce for kukris/daggers.
Overwhelming Critical feat lost its STR and Gt Cleave pre-reqs, so any build with Imp Crit can take it. Back then, OC wasn't worth the feat cost & STR pre-req on an Assassin, but now it's enough of a DPS bonus to be practically mandatory. But two feats spent on Imp Crit + OC are two feat choices not going towards ranged feats...
DEX now applies to Assassinate DCs, which make DEX Assassins a superior choice if playing a DEX-based race: +3 DEX from Shadow Dodge and up to +4 DEX from racial bonuses. [Halfling and SDK are now preferable to drow due to extra racial SAs which scale w/150% Melee Power.] But this requires enough APs in Assassin, Acrobat, and racial trees that there isn't much left for Mechanic.
U25 significantly improved the Assassin and Mechanic T5s; which means you're giving up a significant chunk of melee or ranged DPS in the PrE you're not taking the T5s.


So basically, you can choose to play a max-melee-DPS DEX Assassin or max-ranged-DPS INT Mechanic or a gimpy hybrid of the two. Granted, I always saw this as primarily a melee-DPS toon with ranged as a backup, but the sacrifices seem more pronounced now, IMHO. If I were to stick with the INT hybrid, I would almost certainly switch to human, as the extra feat is badly needed.

VinoeWhines
05-09-2015, 03:51 PM
DEX based assassins now get more advantages to some degree in padding stats, defense and damage that's for sure.
Though if I will have to stay INT based to be able to range and melee, well that is OK too. The rogue character is not an easy button playstyle, it requires tactics and strategy to stay alive. Intelligence is still viable, I would like to go DEX based, but there's no synergy with mechanic to do so and SD destiny only has one range option that requires DEX for a higher DC and it only proc's a percentage of the time.

I'm running a first lifer and running EE content and it's still doable, challenging yes, but doable, I encourage anyone to keep on working at it to make your character viable. Remember as a Rogue you are versatile, use your options, traps, offensive scrolls, clickies, CC, Melee and ranged.

My logic is partially strenthened by Melkors excellent reasoning in dps. How he use to defend his reasoning why going INT based was just as viable as the old STR based rogue in dps. Assassinate is the strongest DPS.
I build to hit the assassinate numbers and range as a defensive and offensive option.

When the aggro PUGS hits the fan then there's a large group of mobs, the key to staying around is defense and ranging things down to sustainable melee options.
Power Word blind is a nice tool to have around, it takes time to master but you hit a mob with that and switch to melee to assassinate, jump back and range (if you have a CC range option like Pin, Leg shot, Whistler). I also have a rare Improved Curse of Radiance(blinding)repeater or Thunderfoge Blinding Fear, Paralyzing Fear repeater(no Mortal Fear yet).
This Mech-Assassin is still very much do-able and viable guys. Yes the new DEX is shinier and I would like to try it out, but if that means loosing out on my solid ranging option just to hit higher numbers then I'll stay INT based.

I play on Sarlona and would like to two man or so with anyone having doubts if the Mech-Assassin is viable in EE content.
One time I sent a blind tell to a rogue, if they wanted to run Fleshmakers with me on EE. They agreed and ask if I was gonna put up an LFM for it. I just said I believe we should be ok and if it was OK if they would want to run it.
They were kinda hesitant, but unassuredly agreed. I gave some tid bits of tips about laying traps, defensive gear in certain parts of dungeon, stealthing through areas. And ranging at times as well as assassinating opportunities.
They had the assassinating down pat, but in doing this I just wanted to encourage and show that we rogues are capable of running things and thinking outside of the box and able to complete dungeons as well as having our old disabling and pick locking abilities as well.

Though this thread was started before some of the changes came on board, I just want to say that this play style is still viable and as one of the posters mentioned, ranging on EE is a discreet option, that can help you stay up longer than just having only a melee option.

I'm not multi classed, just a pure rogue first lifer, staying relevant in an unforgiving updated world.