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DazzedConfused
11-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Hello everyone, I come here in this occasion to ask for your assistance.

As I mentioned in the title, I am a returning player to DDO. I had started playing some time ago, but left when this "epic destinies" stuff was introduced (I believe it was update 14?). As I was planning to return to action after this long hiatus, I found my lvl 20 dark-monk completely stripped of his former abilities and with 80 AP to spend.

Now, this wouldn't be such a problem if I wasn't so absolutely overwhelmed with the changes that were introduced in the updates that took place while I was gone. Clearly, the monk class has suffered some serious modifications (and I suspect that the same happened to all the other classes), and the class' mechanics as I once knew them are all gone; and that's quite a disaster, for I now fear that the feats that I had picked for my old monk are now obsolete and no longer work for nowadays' monks (TWF, ITWF, Improved Critical - Bludgeon, etc.)

Not only that, but I have also seen that some abilities that used to be feats are now purchasable with AP; and the Shintao subclass was finally added (which is nice - back when I was around it was just speculation talk) and now has some abilities that used to belong to the dark side; dark monks now have assassin-rogue-like poisons; etc.

Right now, I feel like a complete noob to the DDO world, which really hurts my pride as I used to know my stuff quite well while I was playing. My problem is aggravated by the fact that I have a lvl 20 character (and a lvl 16 one, and a lvl 15 one, and a lvl 10 one; but lets just concentrate on the monk), so people will expect me to play proficiently and fulfill my character's role. Moreover, this monk is my main, I have put a lot of effort (and tomes!) on it, so discarding it and starting from scratch in Korthos like a proper noob is not an option.

I have already started my research on this new monk reading https://sites.google.com/site/bookofsyn/home, but failed to find a nice build (all the ones I have found are from when I was still around, made with the DDO Character Generator) like the one I used to use back then: tihocan's character guide (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/232660-Revisiting-paths-Builds-for-new-players?p=2815593#post2815593)

So, to summarize this long rant of mine: could anyone give me any insight on how I should spend my AP's in order to be a reliable dps-machine dark monk? I am a halfling, and I used to be based on ultimate air stance and death touch, switching to fire stance when critically low on ki, and to (improved) ocean stance when I needed a boost to my save rolls.

Thanks in advance for your help~

PS: Now that the cap has been extended from 20 to 28, did that include a "dungeon reset"? What I mean is, I had already ran lots of the previously end-game maps and raids in order to farm for gear while being lvl 20, and back then, every time you ran a map, the exp you would get decreased significantly according to how many times you had completed it. I ask this because if the game still keeps those records from when I used to play, then I don't know how I am going to level up any further, as I will be getting 1k exp for maps that should be giving me 20k.

PS2: Before I left, I was farming epic tokens on the three f2p maps that were playable on epic. Do those still exist? If not, is there a f2p way to reincarnate a character (should have done it before I quite playing, I know "u_u ).

TeacherSyn
11-25-2013, 11:20 AM
Welcome back. I see you found the Monk guide.

I purposefully don't add build help per se into the guide because there can be so many, and therefore so many arguments here and there that I am not qualified to handle. Also, the guide's purpose is to help new and returning players to make a pure Monk using all the class tree resources (with two exceptions: Kensei and Elven Arcane Archer).

That said, I know you're realized the incredible potential for any Monk now to add class abilities from any tree to bolster healing, ki regeneration, incorporeality, ki weapons and the like. Again, I'm far from the type of player that enjoys the min-max style of adding other non-Monk classes to improve DPS, but here are some general thoughts to help your Dark Monk.


Be mindful that the former "Monk Improved Recovery" no longer exists except through the Shintao cores. If you are a not Human or Half-Elf (which get racial improved recovery), you'll get no amplification as a Monk using only the Ninja Spy tree. Take some abilities in Shintao to get 10 (2 cores). The Heal skill now also aids in positive energy spell power (like items with Devotion).
Play to the class strengths. Ninjas deal good damage but cannot self-heal as well without gear in a pure mode. If you're adding classes, you have other options.
Poison is now a VERY powerful damage over time effect that Ninjas can use well against bosses. You'll need to use piercing/slashing weapons to do this (handwraps, items or feats cannot add this). On some characters I've caused 100+ d.o.t.s of poison on enemies while also dealing other damage to take down bosses faster.
Going pure 20 in Ninja Spy (slapping AP in other trees as you need) gives you Vorpal on any piercing/slashing weapon (again, not unarmed).
Dark Monks gained the new effects that go off with a Touch of Despair, such as the Wave of Despair. At Level 3, you can mass neg-level mobs with enough ki. Similar effects are available for adding more poison to attacks. Weapons and abilities with other poison attacks generally stack with this damage.


I'll let others speak of builds, pure or not, that should get you what you want. It's a good time to be a Monk again. :)

thegreatneil
11-25-2013, 11:56 AM
PS: Now that the cap has been extended from 20 to 28, did that include a "dungeon reset"? What I mean is, I had already ran lots of the previously end-game maps and raids in order to farm for gear while being lvl 20, and back then, every time you ran a map, the exp you would get decreased significantly according to how many times you had completed it. I ask this because if the game still keeps those records from when I used to play, then I don't know how I am going to level up any further, as I will be getting 1k exp for maps that should be giving me 20k.

From wiki:
Quest ransack penalty: (individual) Each time you repeat a quest, the amount of experience the quest grants decreases by 20%, to a minimum of 20%. 18 hours after the most-recent completion the penalty is reduced by 50% (and again 18 hours after that). This 18 hour timer restarts each time you run a quest, so if you never leave a full 18 hour break between runs of the quest you will never get any reduction in the 80% penalty, and if you never wait a full 36 hours you will always have some penalty. Typing /ransack into your Chat Log will show you the ransack levels of the quests that you've played. (U19) This penalty (including the 20% minimum) is waived if there is a "first time" difficulty bonus and that completion DOES NOT COUNT toward increasing the penalty on later attempts. This penalty also applies to characters on the level cap.

DazzedConfused
11-30-2013, 10:22 PM
Thanks for your replies, and sorry for the tardiness.

First of all, thank you Spencerian as your guide did indeed provide some insight into this "new" monk class. I guess I will have to play around with the build myself as I haven't found any monk build recent enough to contemplate the changes the class has suffered.

As for the dungeon exp reset, I was referring primarily to the (really) huge first-run bonus we used to receive upon completing a dungeon on elite as the first run (by the way, does that still exist?). On a power-leveling perspective, those are the main source for experience, and I did pretty much all of my available end-game dungeons just for gear-hunts/fun (since I was already capped, there was no "wasted experience" to worry about). Now if those records I mention didn't get reset, this increase of the level cap is quite problematic, as I won't be able to reach level 25 without grinding every map lots of times for little exp, which will become more bothersome that it is fun. Come to think of it, this was a pretty dumb question on my part, since the answer won't change what I will have to 'ultimately' do (grinding, most likely).

However, I am still interested if the free maps that used to give epic tokens still exist (or if there are more epic maps that were added that can be run on level 20), and which is the actual level requirement for true-reincarnation (I'd rather grind the tokens and true-reincarnate than grind my way through the hardest last five levels).

TeacherSyn
12-02-2013, 08:52 AM
Thanks for your replies, and sorry for the tardiness.

First of all, thank you Spencerian as your guide did indeed provide some insight into this "new" monk class. I guess I will have to play around with the build myself as I haven't found any monk build recent enough to contemplate the changes the class has suffered.

As for the dungeon exp reset, I was referring primarily to the (really) huge first-run bonus we used to receive upon completing a dungeon on elite as the first run (by the way, does that still exist?). On a power-leveling perspective, those are the main source for experience, and I did pretty much all of my available end-game dungeons just for gear-hunts/fun (since I was already capped, there was no "wasted experience" to worry about). Now if those records I mention didn't get reset, this increase of the level cap is quite problematic, as I won't be able to reach level 25 without grinding every map lots of times for little exp, which will become more bothersome that it is fun. Come to think of it, this was a pretty dumb question on my part, since the answer won't change what I will have to 'ultimately' do (grinding, most likely).

However, I am still interested if the free maps that used to give epic tokens still exist (or if there are more epic maps that were added that can be run on level 20), and which is the actual level requirement for true-reincarnation (I'd rather grind the tokens and true-reincarnate than grind my way through the hardest last five levels).

After much player grousing before a recent update to the reincarnation system, yes, the Tokens of the Twelve (the new name for "Epic Dungeon Tokens") still exist in game in several Eberron (not MoTU) quests for players to gather them or fragments for TR. There's also "Commendations of Valor" that you can accumulate for Epic TR (return to 20, if you want, rather than 1).

Todkaninchen
12-02-2013, 04:51 PM
Hello everyone, I come here in this occasion to ask for your assistance.

As I mentioned in the title, I am a returning player to DDO. I had started playing some time ago, but left when this "epic destinies" stuff was introduced (I believe it was update 14?). As I was planning to return to action after this long hiatus, I found my lvl 20 dark-monk completely stripped of his former abilities and with 80 AP to spend.

Now, this wouldn't be such a problem if I wasn't so absolutely overwhelmed with the changes that were introduced in the updates that took place while I was gone. Clearly, the monk class has suffered some serious modifications (and I suspect that the same happened to all the other classes), and the class' mechanics as I once knew them are all gone; and that's quite a disaster, for I now fear that the feats that I had picked for my old monk are now obsolete and no longer work for nowadays' monks (TWF, ITWF, Improved Critical - Bludgeon, etc.)

Actually, everyone was an instant "noob" for a while after the enhancement pass and while they re-jiggered some stuff. You just happened to miss that window. *grin*

Some were little changes--like stances all becoming universal grants by level instead of picking and choosing--and some were more meaningful--stealth doesn't seem to auto-generate ki anymore for ninjas (except as noted below) and the Shintao Rise of the Phoenix was radically changed.

In general though, my suggestion is to try tinkering with your enhancements for a couple of days, get a good grasp on them, then use your free lesser reincarnation (the +0 one, not the +20) to tinker with your feats. Reserve the +20 lesser heart for "just in case I really screw up" or--even better--for after you TR in case you really screw up that build.

Another suggestion is to check the DDO wiki for the enhancements ESPECIALLY for things that have 2 or 3 tiers. Some of them add something special for the 3rd tier that doesn't show up on the tool tips until after you've taken the second tier.

For example:
Tier 3 of the Henshin Mystic Comtemplation enhancement also grants a passive +1 ki regeneration.
Tier 3 of Ninja Spy Stealthy enhancement also grants a passive +1 ki regeneration while sneaking.

Also, if you haven't noticed yet, getting a tier 5 ability in one tree locks out the others. Some of the key tier 5's to consider are:

Ninja Spy:
Touch of Death (just like it used to be, essentially...)

Shintao:
Rise of the Phoenix (Self-res, once per rest)
Unarmed mastery (All your 1d6 unarmed damage dice become 1d8)

Henshin:
Void Strike (similar to before, but only one level).
Staff Specialization (+1 crit range and multiplier with staves)
Balance in Dawn (opposing school ability, should read those).

Also, some new, nifty abilities were added to consider when building:

Lighting the Candle: Tier 3, Henshin. Adds flame damage to hits and force damage on crits for all weapons at the expense of lower ki generation. Higher damage for 2-handed weapons (like staves) but still adds damage to handwraps and other weapons you are centered with...
Fists of Iron: Tier 2 all 3 trees, elemental strikes. This now is +3[W] damage, +1 critical threat range, and +1 crit multiplier for 5 ki on a 3 second cooldown. If you are centered with it, it works with all melee weapons...
Shadow Veil: 3rd Ninja Core. 25% incorp and invisibility...
Diversion: 5th Ninja Core. This trades a meditation usage (you can add more to the base 2 in the Henshin tree) for a training dummy with a pirate hat that basically aggros everything in range... This is freaking awesome. Servants of the Overlord optional drow chest? This plus shadow fade and you can get the lever solo...

Anyway, things to consider trying out and seeing if they match your play style.







[QUOTE=DazzedConfused;5179449]
So, to summarize this long rant of mine: could anyone give me any insight on how I should spend my AP's in order to be a reliable dps-machine dark monk? I am a halfling, and I used to be based on ultimate air stance and death touch, switching to fire stance when critically low on ki, and to (improved) ocean stance when I needed a boost to my save rolls.

If anything, there's more synergy with halfling now. Just make sure and get Stealthy from ninja tree if you get it (for +1 ki regen). The boosts to thrown weapons are nice for a WIS/DEX monk, improved dodge and the top effect in that chain can add to dodge bonus, the sneak attack damage adds whole dice now for ninja or stunned enemies, and the dragonmark, if you have the AP's, is now 1 feat + enhancements and--if you're a shintao--adds some more heal skill points to boost your devotion spell power plus give you some instant heals (and a means to remove negative levels!).

All of your stances though are now autogrants on a pure monk, selectable feats on multiclasses. So, changing stances is the same except you don't have to pick and choose (or qualify with attributes) for the higher levels of the stance. Touch of death is still in the ninja tree and I suggest considering spending enough to get Light the Candle in Henshin. You won't be able to use any of the void finishers (only tier 5 Henshin get void attacks now), but you should be able to play similarly with some added benefits...

Oh, and quivering palm not works with (centered) melee weapons though stunning fist does not. With quivering palm, pick up SUNDERING wraps. The sundering suffix now boosts quivering palm DC's!

Also, at 20... If you have epic destinies, consider running your choice of destiny (Shadowdancer or Grandmaster of Flowers) to level 3 to unlock Legendary Dreadnought. This will give you your first "Fate point" and Twist of Fate slot. An excellent first tier twist is the first Legendary Tactics in Legendary Dreadnought. It adds +6 to your Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, and probably Touch of Death (I haven't tested the last one), and then go back to leveling whichever destiny you started with. With a good set of handwraps and a decent wisdom, you can get your Stun DC's into the high 40's and lower 50's pretty easily. Won't be perfect, but you'll reliably take out casters and usually get most things stunned.



PS2: Before I left, I was farming epic tokens on the three f2p maps that were playable on epic. Do those still exist? If not, is there a f2p way to reincarnate a character (should have done it before I quite playing, I know "u_u ).

Most quests only drop fragments now. 100 frags convert to a token in the Twelve epic trader. 20 tokens for a heart of wood. You can also convert greater tokens of the twelve ("epic raid tokens") to regular epic tokens as well.

My suggestion--if you have the quests--is to run some of the Demon Sands quests on Epic Hard (usually drops 1-2 tokens a run) or, even better, Devil Assault. On Epic Normal you usually also get 1-2 tokens a run. (And Chronoscope/Devil's Assault is one of the cheapest packs out there if you're spending TP on them.)

Todkaninchen
12-02-2013, 05:03 PM
However, I am still interested if the free maps that used to give epic tokens still exist (or if there are more epic maps that were added that can be run on level 20), and which is the actual level requirement for true-reincarnation (I'd rather grind the tokens and true-reincarnate than grind my way through the hardest last five levels).

Oh, yeah.

Other than Epic Gianthold, almost all of the Epic quests in Eberron (not the new Forgotten Realms packs) will drop either epic token fragments or epic tokens.

I mentioned above Chronoscope/Devil's Assault and Demon Sands, but the following also have Epic Versions of many quests that drop tokens or frags:

The Red Fens
Phiarlin Carnival
Vault of Night
Sentinels of Stormreach (most of the quests are epic, one, Storming the Beaches isn't.)
Chronoscope/Devil's Assault
Demon Sands (the 3 "flagging quests", the pre-raid, and the raid, not the walk-ups)
Secrets of the Artificers (both raids, not the others)

Like I pointed out before, Devil's Assault is probably the quickest, dirtiest, full-token dropping quest to run and you can usually find people willing to PUG it on Enorm or Ehard. Chains of Flame can be nasty on epic, but usually drops 1-2 tokens a run on Ehard. The Phiarlin stuff is usually pretty short, but fragment amounts are usually meh. For some of the others--like Into the Deep in Red Fens and Wizard King in Demon Sands--you pretty much have to run all the optionals to get the epic chest.

DazzedConfused
12-04-2013, 05:30 PM
Thanks again for your responses. With this information in mind, I will try to play this new monk like suggested (keeping in mind that a little trial and error will be unavoidable), at least long enough until I can gather enough tokens for a TR.