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voodoogroves
11-22-2013, 10:52 AM
So, about to head to some artificer lives. Character in question has 3 sorc + wiz PLs; I'm not so worried about DCs. What I'd like to do though, is amp like crazy the spell power. Likely a fleshy. Considering Half Elf for the boost + human related SP, damage and +INT while boosting things. May do some epic stuff for a bit.

Looking for a discussion. Considering a bit of splashing, but unsure what, if any - I'd like to hear thoughts from others out there.

- Sorc 1 or Sorc 3 would get me some additional spell power. Neither of those are high enough to get +max CL (that'd be sorc 6).
- Light splash would let me sit w/ 2 level 6 spells (probably typically BB and TacDet) ... but I'd be missing deadly most of the time.
- Staying pure would give rune arm, weapon-as-implement and/or more SP from arcanotech
- Sorc would give +10 electric/sonic, but less universal per AP; would have option for electrocution and/or alternating current.
- Sorc 6 would mean no late-arti spells. Arti CL would still be 15 for elec spells (due to savant +3) so DC and damage still at capacity, but loses valuable late options.
- Regardless, Battle Engineer still seems like the better T5 unless I went crazy for Wind Dance and did T5 air savant.

I see two options. One is a traditional Evocation, full casting arti. DCs primarily, with a healthy dose of force. The second is a more electric-focused.

I suspect the 2nd will gain more by the splash, simply because you could have alternating current. Deeper splash maybe even. Dunno.

Thoughts / discussion welcomed



I know there are folks with experience on the first route - INT/DC based. Has anyone done a hybrid between Air Savant / Arti?

Panzermeyer
11-22-2013, 12:15 PM
Interesting concept of a class split. I had not thought of that.

Arti's are my favorite class. After my first, I am now TRing my best/fav toon into a bad ass Arti.

Ranged/Caster Arti's are still one of the few classes that it is actually best to remain pure. The lvl 6 spells for Arti are almost a must have. I run fleshies and take human and get construct essence for the bonus feat. Thus needing BB, Tactical and Recontruct as must haves.

However I might log into Lammania to give this some testing and try it out.

I would doubt that just a light splash would give you enough benefit that it would justify the splash. You would likely have more Spell Power staying pure with what you get from the Rune arm. So if you splash I'd go all in.

You would only need 12 Arty, and 14 doesn't really give you that much more other than another 5th level spell. Which if you are ranged, prismatic strike is all you really need, you are just losing out on options for weapon buffs.

The main thing you will lose out on is and effective CC option. (Tactical Detonation with proper DC's is Da Bomb. It works damn well.)

As such getting heighten and have web would be a must if I went this route.

Wind Dance would certainly be nice, which means can give you more options for Spell Power and Crit Change in the Air Savant tree.

So that would leave at least 6 Sorc and either 2 more Sorc or a 2 other Splash. The splash I would go for is for evasion which leaves monk (and 2 bonus feats, but monk martial feats are not stellar for a ranged arty build, real option is for dodge and mobility for base dodge bonus), or rogue, which gives you a little sneak attack, evasion, and keeps your skill points up, which shouldn't be an issue anyway.

However with the 2 sorc you will end up getting one more 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th level spell, plus some more spell points. 2 3rd level spells gives you haste and displace. Which might mean extend but I'd have to really look into that (Extend does not work with most arti buffs), and for 4th level spells, I go with maybe DD, but most likely Ice Storm for the slow effect, combined with Web.

Means I'd spend 35 points in Air Savant, get wind dance and Elemental Weakness. Electric Loop will become great CC as well.

I'd spend more in Arcanotechnican than BE. Getting at least Lighting Sphere for another CC. And boosts to Electric and Force.

This build would mean that you wouldn't actually use your run arm much. Movement would be too slow, charging too long and all that such. However it should give you great electric damage. a ton of SLA's, very viable CC options. If you can afford to pick up Lightning Bolt or Blast Rod (I would likely go more for Blast Rod for the AOE damage)

Definitely not sure how it would fare in EE content, but should be fun and effective in leveling up and interesting to try out.

voodoogroves
11-22-2013, 01:31 PM
If I could wrangle another CL (gear maybe - Chaosrobe, Abishai set) I could get just a shade more DC out of sorc spells - but I think it's folly to try to do lots of CC as well - I don't think it's really work.

On a split, I think it'd be ... Arcanotech 34 (motes + evocation DC) or Air Savant 36 (wind dance, evocation, awaken weakness). They are nearly identical, and since you can only get one T5 Wind Dance probably wins - Weakness and Motes are basically an analog for each other, and probably neither is necessary on trash, so a single-target version for bosses is ok by me.

Whichever I didn't select would be in the 20s, so that's 55-60 points spent.

Probably a fair chunk of points in half-elf racials. Rest would be in BE or EK, though neither of those would increase SP (BE could boost INT).

Not sure I can make something work. Most of those spells cap out at CL10, CL15 for saves/heighten. A small amount of splash probably doesn't bring enough to bear to justify.

Wish I could make something work ...

Panzermeyer
11-22-2013, 01:44 PM
If I could wrangle another CL (gear maybe - Chaosrobe, Abishai set) I could get just a shade more DC out of sorc spells - but I think it's folly to try to do lots of CC as well - I don't think it's really work.

On a split, I think it'd be ... Arcanotech 34 (motes + evocation DC) or Air Savant 36 (wind dance, evocation, awaken weakness). They are nearly identical, and since you can only get one T5 Wind Dance probably wins - Weakness and Motes are basically an analog for each other, and probably neither is necessary on trash, so a single-target version for bosses is ok by me.

Whichever I didn't select would be in the 20s, so that's 55-60 points spent.

Probably a fair chunk of points in half-elf racials. Rest would be in BE or EK, though neither of those would increase SP (BE could boost INT).

Not sure I can make something work. Most of those spells cap out at CL10, CL15 for saves/heighten. A small amount of splash probably doesn't bring enough to bear to justify.

Wish I could make something work ...

If you are burning through some past lives for no reason not to try on your first or second and see how it works, then then do your Epic trolling on the final life after you have seen if it works out or not.

Spending in BE would only help your Repeater/Rune Arm which would be worthwhile. With this deep of a splash, I wouldn't want to relay only on my spells for damage and such.

voodoogroves
11-22-2013, 08:04 PM
If you are burning through some past lives for no reason not to try on your first or second and see how it works, then then do your Epic trolling on the final life after you have seen if it works out or not.

Spending in BE would only help your Repeater/Rune Arm which would be worthwhile. With this deep of a splash, I wouldn't want to relay only on my spells for damage and such.

The SLAs and spells on the arti-side will be max CL for damage and DCs. They cap at CL 10 for damage, etc. and the boost to CL would put it at 15, which is max DC for heighten.

FestusHood
11-22-2013, 08:37 PM
The SLAs and spells on the arti-side will be max CL for damage and DCs. They cap at CL 10 for damage, etc. and the boost to CL would put it at 15, which is max DC for heighten.

Pretty sure caster level only affects spell pen, and not dc's. Spell level is a factor though.

voodoogroves
11-22-2013, 09:35 PM
Pretty sure caster level only affects spell pen, and not dc's. Spell level is a factor though.

I verified this w/ CL increases, Flesh to Stone and earth savants.

A Level 15 earth savant heightens to 9th level, w/ the appropriate DC boost.

This wasn't "yesterday", so I will probably check again on an iconic test.

cru121
11-28-2013, 07:19 AM
My halfling artificer 20 spent 56 points in Arcanotechnician (all cores+capstone, SLA, crits, int, evo focus, wands, dog line; efficient quicken), 4 in Battle Engineer (traps), 20 in Halfling (hjealz/sneak)

With 10 spell power from dog, 5 from capstone (spellcraft), I feel I am not losing that much spell power; though careful dipping would probably easily outshine it.

The SLA damage is extremely effective around level 10-12. You can spam ~300 hp aoe blasts at minuscule SP cost, mobs just die. Unfortunately, the SLA damage reaches a plateau soon (once you get to CL cap and full metas); then it only slowly crawls upwards as you slot more magnetism and lore. As mob's HP increases, other damaging options become important as well, blade barrier + repeater. In epics, when mobs hit hard, tactical detonation is great.

I am not using Rune Arm much, except in boss fight situations

Don't forget that the SLAs from Air Savant and probably also from Half Elf are charisma based (dragonmarks usually use charisma). I would not count on any CC via electric loop.