PDA

View Full Version : Bard Enhancements Review, with suggestions for improvement



HatsuharuZ
11-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Bard enhancements need improvement. Even turbine employees in DDOCast (I think it was 309?) have admitted this. So, here is a review of the enhancements, starting with the Warchanter tree. Special thanks goes to the ddowiki people and their awesome site, from where the descriptions come from.

Core Abilities

1) Skaldic Rage: Expend a Song to fly into Rage, granting you a +4 Rage bonus to Strength and -4 penalty to AC. When Skaldic Rage ends you become Fatigued. Requires 4 trained ranks in Perform to use. Skaldic Rage lasts for 3 minutes initially. Duration increases with effects that increase Song durations.

Problems: This costs a song, and initially it's not particularly worthwhile to use songs for this at first, when songs are scarce. I can't complain too much, though, since the only other downside to this ability is that it penalizes AC. It doesn't prevent spellcasting or singing at all. Later in the tree, this is used as a prerequisite/tax/requirement for other abilities.

Suggestions: Have this improve somehow. The desciption when it's activated says that it makes the user tougher. Sadly, this is false.

2) Fighting Spirit: +10 HP. Inspire Courage grants an additional +1 damage

Problems: None. Useful passive ability.

Suggestions: This would be a good spot to put martial weapon proficiency, or at least proficiency with one martial weapon. Consider that monks and rogues get additional proficiencies from similarly-placed enhancements at level 1, while sorcerers and bards can get martial weapon proficiency at level 2. Bards do not get martial weapon profs until level *12*.

3) Song of Heroism: Expend a Song to give all nearby allies Greater Heroism for 1 minute plus thirty seconds per caster level. This is a non-magical effect.
Requires 4 dedicated Ranks in Perform to use.
Greater Heroism: +4 Morale bonus to Attack, all saving throws, and skill checks, as well as immunity to fear, and some temporary hitpoints.

Problems: At the time of this posting, it only affects the person targeted by the user when activated. Bug reported yesterday.

Suggestions: Fix the bug? :P

4) Fighting Spirit: +10 HP. Inspire Courage grants an additional +1 damage.

Problems: See #2.

Suggestions: None.

5) Victory Song: When you Inspire Courage you personally gain full Base Attack Bonus (equal to your level) for 20 seconds. When you Vorpal strike under the effect of Victory Song, Victory Song's duration extends another 20 seconds.

Problems: Full base attack bonus means that the user gets a stacking bonus to attack speed and +5 to to-hit rolls. Great. Now, Inspire Courage, like all other songs, takes time to cast/sing. This effect has a *very* short duration, so I have to take the time to sing it right before battle in order to make use of it. That is *very* impractical. Not only that, I have that very small window to get in a vorpal strike and reset the timer on the effect. This is not very useful.

Suggestions: Change this to a passive ability that gives the buff whenever I kill an enemy under the effects of Inspire Courage. Or better yet, let the player have full BAB when under the effects of Skaldic Rage.

6) Warmaster: You inspire martial combat above and beyond. +2 Strength and Constitution.
+10 HP.
Inspire Courage grants an additional +1 damage.
When you Inspire Heroics, for 12 seconds the targeted ally gains +5 Competence bonus to Attack, +5 Competence bonus to Damage, +25 Competence bonus to Physical Resistance and +50 Competence bonus to resist Acid, Cold, Electric, and Fire damage

Problems: This is half awesome and half awful. The +2 to strength and constitution is awesome. The activated portion is awful. See "Victory Song" above for why short-term buffs on songs are a bad idea. Not only does the player have to sing (and thus spend a song) this in the middle of combat for it to be useful, but it has a short duration. This might be useful for getting another player through a trap, though, if no trapper is available.

Suggestions: Replace the active portion with something useful, like extra PRR for the user, or removal of the AC penalty associated with Skaldic Rage. Heavy armor prof (and ASF reduction) would be useful here, too.


Tier 1
(from left to right)

1) Inspired Bravery: Inspire Courage grants you and your allies an additional +(1/2/3) to attack rolls and saving throws vs. Fear.

Problems: None.

2) The Poetic Edda: You are steeped in the rich history of the elder sagas. The songs of warrior-poets fill your soul, and you long for battle and glory.
+(1/2/3) Attack
+(1/2/3) Bard Songs

Problems: I don't understand why this requires 3 bard levels, but is a first rank enhancement.

Suggestions: Lower the class level requirement

3) Enchant Weapon: Enchant Weapons is added to your spellbook as level 1 Bard spell.

Problems: Not exactly a problem, but... bards already have bonuses to attack and damage, and 3% extra spellpower isn't very useful by itself.

Suggestions: Personally, I'd rather have elemental weapons.

4) Rough and Ready: +(2/4/6) Armor Class
+(2/4/6)Physical Resistance Rating

Problems: None. This is a very solid passive enhancement.

5) Focused: +(1/2/3) Concentration, +(1/2/3) Intimidate, +(0/0/1) Bard Song

Problems: Bards do not get intimidate as a class skill. Otherwise this is fine.

Suggestions: Give bards intimidate as a class skill :P


Tier 2
(from left to right)

1) Boast: Sing a Song to gain (10/20/30) Temporary HP. While these HP last, you generate +50% Bardic Music bonus to Threat and gain +1[W] to Damage. Requires 6 trained Ranks of Perform to use. Rank 3: You gain +1 use of Barbarian Rage if you possess that ability.

Problems: The +1[W] effect depends on the temporary HP being present. In general, mobs deal *more* damage as one goes into higher level content. As a result, the duration, and thus the damage, does *down*.

Suggestions: Get rid of the threat gen 'bonus'. Then, make this ability that triggers an intimidate check based on ones' perform skill. Finally, have the temporary HP increase with bard level and make it +[.5]/+[1]/+[1.5] damage for, say, 15 seconds. Or just seperate the damage bonus and the temp HP.

2) Words of Encouragement: Inspire Courage grants +(10/20/30) temporary HP for one minute. +(4/8/12) Positive Spellpower

Problems: What is not to like? Especially the spellpower.

3) Iced Edges: While Gathering Cold in a Skaldic Rage, when you score a critical hit you gain Breath of Frost.
Breath of Frost: Your attacks deal +1d6 cold damage for three seconds

Problems: This is a short-duration buff that requires more more AP than it is worth by itself.

Suggestions: http://ddowiki.com/page/Freezing_Ice This, or something like it, when Gathering Cold is active.

4) Gathering Cold: Toggle: +(1/2/3) resistance vs. Cold. When enemy spells deal you Cold damage you have a 20%/35%/50% chance to absorb some of that energy and gain Armor of Frost. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
Armor of Frost: You gain +1 stacking Cold Resistance and +1 stacking AC that lasts for 12 seconds. This effect can stack up to 5 times

Problems: Stacking cold resistance is nice, but the small amount of AC isn't worthwhile. Worst of all, this enhancement toggle is only effective when the *enemy* uses cold spells, and only when the player is hit and damaged by them. I think this needs to be replaced with... anything else.

Suggestions: Perhaps this could be changed to give PRR instead of AC (increase the max stacks as well), and let the player gather AoF charges over time, similar to how Divine Vessel from the Warchanter tree works. A fifth level enhancement could allow the player to sacrifice these charges to deal AoE cold damage.

5) Action Boost: Sprint: +35%/+40%/+50% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds.

Problems: What is not to like?


Tier 3
(from left to right)

1) Ironskin Chant: Cooldown: (30/20/10) seconds. Grants nearby allies (2/4/6)/- Bardic Music bonus to DR.
Requires 8 trained Ranks of Perform to use.

Problems: Nothing, really. Free DR is fine, even though it gets less useful as mob damage increases.

Suggestions: How about a music bonus to PRR as well? :D

2) Obstinance: You gain +1 to saving throws while below 80% health.
Rank 2: Additional +1 while below 60% health.
Rank 3: Additional +1 while below 40% health.
+(4/8/12) Positive Spellpower

Problems: None. This is very nice to have.

3) The Frozen Fury: Make a melee attack with +0.5[W]/+1[W]/+1.5[W] damage. Affected enemies must make a Reflex save (10/12/14 plus your Charisma modifier) or become frozen solid for several seconds. (Cooldown: 6 seconds)

Problems: The DC doesn't scale very well, which along with the low cooldown means that this is very nice to have at low levels. At high levels, not so much. This has the same problem as current DC-based abilities on items.

Suggestions: Change the DC to 10 + 1/3 bard level + CHA mod.

4) Northwind: While Gathering Cold under Skaldic Rage, you deal an additional (2d8/4d8/6d8) Cold damage when you score vorpal hits.

Problems: Not really. This is okay, I guess.

5) Strength or Charisma: Choose one:


Tier 4
(from left to right)

1) Inspire Recklessness: Expend a use of Bardic Music to grant a +(2/4/6)% morale bonus to double strike chance and -10% fortification to all nearby allies for 3 minutes. This effect will be removed if the target enters Combat Expertise, Defensive Fighting, or a defensive stance. As a non-magical effect, this song cannot be removed by Dispel Magic or antimagic.

Problems: Well, it penalizes fortification, and always has. I don't like how one gets the same fortification penalty at all ranks, though. But if one doesn't like it, one can switch in and out of defensive fighting mode in order to get rid of it.

2) High Spirits: Your spirits are always high, and you are immune to Crushing Despair, Waves of Fatigue and Waves of Exhaustion.
Rank 2: You are also immune to Sleep.
Rank 3: You are also immune to Fatigue, including Fatigue from Skaldic Rage.
+(4/8/12) Positive Spellpower

Problems: None. Very nice~

3) Strength or Charisma: Choose one:


Tier 5
(from left to right]

1) Armorer: Gain Medium Armor Proficiency and the ability to cast arcane spells in medium armor without arcane spell failure.

Problems: The effect is useful for a melee. HOWEVER.... wizards and sorcerers get the same thing as a level 4 enhancement, so they don't have to invest as much as bards do. Recall that one can only take fifth tier enhancements from only *one* tree.

Suggestions: Add this to a core ability.

2) Rallying Cry: Action Boost: You and all allies within range of your songs gain +(10/15/20)% movement speed and +1 Morale bonus to Saving Throws for twenty seconds. This ability can be used while feared, and dispells Fear effects. (Cooldown:30 seconds)

Problems: None. It's nice to be useful to the party, and fear seems to be a very common effect used by enemy casters.

Suggestions: Have the saving throw bonus increase along with the movement speed increase.

3) Howl of the North: Toggle: -5 Attack and +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20 with your Trained Weapon while under Skaldic Rage. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Problems: Out of all the enhancements that give a +1 critical damage multiplier on attack rolls of 19-20, this is the only one that penalizes to-hit rolls!

Suggestions: Get rid of the -5 attack penalty.

4) Weapon Group Training: You gain Martial Weapon proficiency, and +2 to Hit and Damage with all Martial Weapons. If you are a dwarf, Dwarven Waraxes are included as part of this Enhancement.

Problems: No problems with +2 to Hit and Damage, but why do bards have to wait until level 12 to get that portion?

Suggestions: Reread "Fighting Spirit", the second core ability, and the suggestions thereof.

HatsuharuZ
11-21-2013, 05:38 PM
Core Abilities

1) Spellsinger: Each AP spent in Spellsinger grants +1 Universal Spell Power. Each Spellsinger Core Ability you acquire after this one grants +1 Diplomacy, Listen, Perform, UMD and 2% critical chance with sonic and positive spells.

Problems: Not really a 'problem', just a complaint or two: First, Listen isn't really useful. Secondly, bards have no damage spells besides sonic spells, so that universal spellpower is mostly wasted unless some more are added.

Suggestion: More spells for bards, please~

2) Music of the Sewers: Your Fascinate gains the power to mesmerize Oozes.
They stop acting and behave like they have been fascinated. Unlike truly fascinated creatures, however, they are not susceptible to suggestion.

Problems: If this works as it should, no problem at all. Oozes aren't exactly threatening, though.

3) Music of the Dead: Your Fascinate gains the power to mesmerize Undead.
They stop acting and behave like they have been fascinated. Unlike truly fascinated creatures, however, they are not susceptible to suggestion.

Problems: See "Music of the Sewers".

4) Music of the Makers: Your Fascinate gains the power to mesmerize Constructs.
They stop acting and behave like they have been fascinated. Unlike truly fascinated creatures, however, they are not susceptible to suggestion.

Problems: Ditto.

5) Virtuoso: You regenerate 1 Song every 5 minutes.
+2 Songs per rest.
+20% bard song duration

Problems: None. Very solid.

6) Maestro of Life and Death: Your songs can fill allies with healing energy or strike down those that oppose you.
+2 Charisma
+10 Universal Spell Power
You gain the Heal and Wail of the Banshee spells as level 6 Bard spells.

Problems: Wail of the Banshee is a Necromancy spell. Bards mainly prefer their small selection of evocation spells or their huge selection of enchantment spells.

Suggestions: Replace Wail of the Banshee with Wierd (a mass version of Phantasmal Killer), Implosion or Mass Hold Monster.


Tier 1
(from left to right)

1) Haunting Melody: You rework Fascinate with haunting notes, intoxicating yet unnerving. Fascinated creatures are Haunted for (20/40/60) seconds. Haunted: -2 on all Saving Throws, Skill checks and attack rolls.

Problems: The only thing I wonder is if the increased duration is really necessary.

2) Magical Studies/Musical Studies: Multiple enhancement selector. Choose one: Magical Studies: +30/+60/+100 maximum Spell Points. Rank 3: You gain the Magical Training feat.
Musical Studies: +1/+2/+3 Bard Songs per rest (Please note that as of Oct 23, 2013, this enhancement is broken and does not function.)

Problems: None, really.... except for the non-functional part.

3) Lingering Songs: Your bard songs last (20/40/60)% longer.

Problems: None here.

4) Wand Heightening: Adds +(1/2/3) to the save DC's of your offensive wands.

Problems: DC-based wands are not that useful when one has spell points, memnonic potions and bards who can use songs to regenerate spell points.

Suggestions: Combine this enhancement with the scroll enhancements above it.

5) Charlatan: +(1/2/3) Concentration
+(1/2/3) Perform

Problems: What problems?


Tier 2

1) Sharp Note: Your Fascinate ability now also grants nearby allies a +(1/2/3) bonus to damage for (20/20/30) seconds.

Problems: None. Very interesting synergy with Fascinate. :D

2) Flicker: When you are damaged you have a 5% chance of turning invisible for (2/4/6) seconds.

Problems: This doesn't work very well. And if I'm reading the Update 19 release notes correctly, invisibility in melee combat doesn't do anything for the invisible person, since mobs can see *anyone* who is invisible if they are directly adjacent to that person.

Suggestions: Change "invisibility" to "10% incorporeal miss chance" and double the duration.

3) Inspired Flicker: When you Inspire Competence on an ally, they gain Flicker for four minutes. Flicker: When you are damaged you have a 5% chance of turning invisible for (2/4/6) seconds

Problems: See the "Flicker" entry. Also, Inspire Competence is most commonly used *outside* of combat, and mostly on rogues or artificers doing traps.

Suggestions: See the "Flicker" entry.

4) Wand and Scroll Mastery: +(25/50/75)% damage and healing from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells.

Problems: Useful by itself, certainly, but why is this not combined with Wand Heightening, like in all the other enhancement trees?

Suggestions: Combine with Wand Heightening.

5) Marigold Crown: (multiple item selector) Gain +1 to the DCs of your Enchantment, Illusion, or Evocation spells.
Choose one:

Problems: None, really. DCs are always nice to have.

Suggestions: Improve the bard spell list. More evocation and illusion spells, especially!


Tier 3

1) Enthrallment: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to enthrall multiple enemies. Enthralled enemies stop what they're doing and have a chance of breaking free when damaged.
Enthralled enemies suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls and Will saves for 24 seconds plus 6 seconds per bard level, even after being disrupted from their reverie.
This ability uses a Perform check as Will save DC.

Problems: Not that I can see.

2) Reviving Verse: +(1/2/3) saving throws vs. Sleep, Paralysis, Exhaustion and Energy Drain.

Problems: To my knowledge, energy drain effects do not have saves, or they are the result of the target failing a save.

3) Raucous Refrain: When you Inspire Courage, allies gain +(1/2/3) Morale bonus to save vs. Sleep, Paralysis, Exhaustion and Energy Drain for four minutes.

Problems: See "Reviving Verse" entry.

4) Spell Song Trance: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to grant a +1 morale bonus to spell DC's and 10% morale discount on spell point costs to you and all nearby allies for 24 seconds plus 6 seconds per bard level.

Problems: Well, there are some stacking conflicts with ship buffs, but this is a favorite buff for any spellcaster.

5) Charisma: +1 Charisma

Tier 4

1) Sustaining Song: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to apply a temporary fast-healing effect to all nearby allies. It lasts for 24 seconds plus 6 seconds per bard level.

Problems: I love this buff, no matter what class I'm playing.

2) Spell Penetration: +(1/2/3) to your level when trying to overcome enemy's Spell Resistance.

Problems: None at all.

3) Arcane Aid: When you Inspire Competence on an ally, they gain +(1/2/3) Spell Penetration for four minutes.

Problems: The only problem is that I can't use this on myself. Personally, I do not like "ally only" abilities that I have to pay points for.

4) Song of Arcane Might: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to grant a +1 morale bonus to caster level for spells cast by you and all nearby allies for 24 seconds plus 6 seconds per bard level.

Problems: None at all.

5) Charisma: +1 Charisma


Tier 5

1) Song of Capering: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to make a single enemy to dance helplessly. This effect lasts for 6 seconds plus 2 seconds per bard level. A successful Will save negates this effect.

Problems: This can be useful.

2) Advanced Magical Studies/Advanced Musical Studies: Multiple enhancement selector. Choose one:
Advanced Magical Studies: +65/+130/+200 Spell Points. Requires Magical Studies Rank 3.
Advanced Musical Studies: +1/+2/+3 Bard Songs per rest. Requires Musical Studies Rank 3.

Problems: Useful, but a bit dull for a fifth tier enhancement.

3) Prodigy: +(1/2/2) Concentration and Perform
+(1/2/2) Spell Penetration
+(1/2/2) to DCs of your Enchantment spells
Third rank: When you finish singing a Bard Song, you grant temporary spell points to nearby allies including yourself.

Problems: None. Very potent!

4) Spell Song Vigor: Cooldown: 10 seconds
Expend a use of Bardic Music to apply an effect to one target that restores spell points over time.

Problems: None.

5) Frolic: When you sing a Song of Freedom on an ally, they gain a Freedom of Movement for three minutes.
(This is a musical effect and cannot be dispelled.)

Problems: This is okay. It would be nice if one could just cast a short-duration FoM effect on all allies instead, just like Song of Heroism.

HatsuharuZ
11-27-2013, 04:23 PM
•Bard Spellsinger:
•Musical Studies and Advanced Musical Studies will now properly increase your Bard Songs per rest
•Spell Song Vigor now only affects a single target (as per its description)
•Most Bard songs granted by Spellsinger enhancements now have shorter singing times.

•Bard Warchanter:
•NEW: Poetic Edda now only requires 1 Bard level (matching its place on the Enhancement tree).
•NEW: Song of Heroism now works on all nearby allies, as intended.
•NEW: Song of Heroism now scales its duration at the rate listed in its tooltip.
•Ironskin Chant no longer triggers when using Inspire Courage
•All ranks of Inspire Recklessness now give their listed amounts of Doublestrike
•Words of Encouragement's hitpoint effect is no longer listed as "Rallying Cry"
•Victory Song is now a toggled ability that grants full Base Attack Bonus when activated
•The buff from Howl of the North now persists through death, rest, and zoning.
•Most Bard songs granted by Warchanter enhancements now have shorter singing times.
•Fixed typo in tooltip for Words of Encouragement.


A good start! :D

kryscendo
11-27-2013, 09:12 PM
Since the virtuoso and spellsinger lines are now combined, I strongly believe that Fascinate and Enthrallment need to be combined - not two different songs.

Song regeneration used to start at level 12 for Virtuoso 2. It now starts at level 18. I think it needs to go back to level 12.

Buffing songs need to be combined. All the Inspires should be one song, and I would add Ironskin Chant to that. Not everyone wants Inspire Recklessness, so I'd leave that separate. I would love to see the Inspire song add different aspects as the bard levels ... so that by level 21, the Inspire song would include courage, Ironskin Chant, greatness, competence, heroics, excellence (and anything else I missed). My level 27 has to sing 4 songs to completely buff (not including the broken Inspire Heroics) ... takes up way too many songs.

While I love some of the changes that have been made, I would really just like everything fixed.

Also - I think that it's important for Turbine to keep in mind that not every bard cares about DPS - that would be me. But for those who want it, make the Warchanter tree ALL about meaningful DPS. Seems to me that Warchanter should be able to wear medium armor and use all martial weapons a lot sooner than what it is right now. And there's a lot of really great input on that subject posted by people who play Warchanters.

Noctus
12-04-2013, 04:54 PM
Excellent review of the current issues with the bard enhancements.

Ahujat
12-13-2013, 04:48 PM
1) Skaldic Rage: ... Problems: This costs a song, and initially it's not particularly worthwhile to use songs for this at first, when songs are scarce. I can't complain too much, though, since the only other downside to this ability is that it penalizes AC. It doesn't prevent spellcasting or singing at all. Later in the tree, this is used as a prerequisite/tax/requirement for other abilities.

Suggestions: Have this improve somehow. The desciption when it's activated says that it makes the user tougher. Sadly, this is false.

The coupling of +4 Strength with -4 AC in the one absolutely mandatory enhancement from the tree is just a bad idea. Something like "You gain an Insight bonus to Str/Dex/Con equal to your Charisma modifier" would work a lot better.

Unfortunately, right now High Spirits is almost a necessity for making this worthwhile - where 'worthwhile' is defined as 'something you might do with a Bard song if you had an excessive number of them'.


6) Warmaster:...Problems: This is half awesome and half awful. The +2 to strength and constitution is awesome. The activated portion is awful. See "Victory Song" above for why short-term buffs on songs are a bad idea. Not only does the player have to sing (and thus spend a song) this in the middle of combat for it to be useful, but it has a short duration. This might be useful for getting another player through a trap, though, if no trapper is available.

Suggestions: Replace the active portion with something useful, like extra PRR for the user, or removal of the AC penalty associated with Skaldic Rage. Heavy armor prof (and ASF reduction) would be useful here, too.

The active portion is especially awful since it's based on Inspire Heroism - a nearly worthless song in its modern incarnation. I think a far better approach would be fix to Inspire Heroism so it isn't so pointless (+3% dodge and a non-stacking bonus aren't inspiring) and then give the Epic Elyde ability as a passive.


1) Boast:...Problems: The +1[W] effect depends on the temporary HP being present. In general, mobs deal *more* damage as one goes into higher level content. As a result, the duration, and thus the damage, does *down*.

Suggestions: Get rid of the threat gen 'bonus'. Then, make this ability that triggers an intimidate check based on ones' perform skill. Finally, have the temporary HP increase with bard level and make it +[.5]/+[1]/+[1.5] damage for, say, 15 seconds. Or just seperate the damage bonus and the temp HP.

Think of the temporary hit points as a 'timer' on the ability. While this does mean that 1 rank is just as good as 3 ranks after a certain point, the basic idea of "get +[W] damage for a brief time" isn't completely silly.

Unfortunately, the implementation is horrible. It takes 3-5 sec to sing this song, so you lose far more damage than you could ever hope to gain.

It's also yet another "song not worth singing". This would be far better as something like: "When you Intimidate an enemy, you gain +0.5/+1/+1.5[W] for the duration of the effect." (see your notes on "Intimidate not a class skill")


4) Gathering Cold: ... Problems: Stacking cold resistance is nice, but the small amount of AC isn't worthwhile. Worst of all, this enhancement toggle is only effective when the *enemy* uses cold spells, and only when the player is hit and damaged by them. I think this needs to be replaced with... anything else.

Suggestions: Perhaps this could be changed to give PRR instead of AC (increase the max stacks as well), and let the player gather AoF charges over time, similar to how Divine Vessel from the Warchanter tree works. A fifth level enhancement could allow the player to sacrifice these charges to deal AoE cold damage.

This is one of those abilities that's so bewilderingly horrible I don't even know where to start. Indeed, this and Boast form a 'wall' in the middle of the Warchanter tree where you're essentially required to throw away enhancement points on worthless abilities just to get to the level where you can start getting useful abilities again.

The same problem occurs over in Spellsinger. If 'Bard' didn't preclude 'Monk', I think you'd be seeing a lot of shallow dips into Bards for the bottom parts of the trees. Taking 1 level of Bard gets you up to 8 songs per day, +7 to hit, +6 AC/PRR, etc. Taking 20 levels of Bard is potentially worthwhile as well. In between? It gets tough to justify.

Ahujat
12-13-2013, 05:02 PM
1) Enthrallment:

My problem here is that it's completely unnecessary. This could simply be changed to: "Your Fascinate does not break on damage. When damage, the target receives an additional save to break free." By making it an independent song, it needlessly clutters up action bars while not benefitting from the rest of the tree.


4) Spell Song Trance:

This is a somewhat mediocre song that's easily fixed: "Your Inspire Greatness automatically Heightens spells to the caster's maximum spell level, plus one".

Basically, it's like every caster has Heighten Spell and then they get +1 DC on top of that. They get the same DC bonus, they save mana since they can turn off Heighten, and Bards save a feat slot (since they can depend on always having the ability available).


3) Arcane Aid:...Problems: The only problem is that I can't use this on myself. Personally, I do not like "ally only" abilities that I have to pay points for.

This, Frolic and the Warchanter capstone really make the Epic Elyd 'must have' for its unique effect. Far better to just grant Bards the Epic Elyd effect somewhere in their trees.