PDA

View Full Version : Help Rebuilding my Acrobard... (back from a long break)



Sezneg
11-19-2013, 08:33 PM
I used to play quite a bit back around oh... Update 9, 10 and 11. I have been bored with my other games of choice lately and wanted to come check out how this game has progressed.

I find the new enhancement system really interesting, but of course it broke my old character. He was a 14 bard/ 6 Rogue Acrobat Thief/Virtuoso, which I know was a silly thing to build to begin with, but it was fun for me and adequate for soloing pretty much everything I wanted to do at the time. Yes I know a better build at the time (and now even) would be monk/rogue and from what i've read a druid 1 splash. While I do have monks unlocked, bard is my personal preference ;p

I gather that I have almost enough TP banked to do a proper resurrection to claim a single past life on the character, and i would like to rebuild him to better fit the new system. It looks like an even lighter splash of the rogue is what's called for, I was thinking about 18 bard/ 2 Rogue, so I could get the lvl 18 core ability unlock for the song regeneration. I do have 36 point builds unlocked, and the Character has a +2 str and charisma tome already applied.

In terms of what I plan to do with him? Mostly enjoy leveling up again. I may go in for some expansion content, so being epic level viable would be a nice bonus. I think the hard part will be working on the much tighter skill budget losing 4 levels of rogue will cause...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Sezneg
11-19-2013, 10:08 PM
Here is my woefully inadequate attempt at making it work.

I have no idea how the skills work nowadays (is this enough lockpick? Is sneak/hide worth it at this level?)


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

ShowtimeII
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 210
Spell Points: 637
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 14
Will: 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 18
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 24

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 2

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 4 12
Bluff 7 30
Concentration 2 19
Diplomacy 3 8
Disable Device 6 25
Haggle 7 13
Heal -1 -1
Hide 4 10
Intimidate 3 8
Jump 3 7
Listen 3 9
Move Silently 4 10
Open Lock 4 10
Perform n/a 33
Repair 2 2
Search 6 25
Spellcraft 2 2
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 4
Tumble 4 8
Use Magic Device 7 27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)


Level 4 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 3)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charlatan (Rank 3)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Bardic Dilettante
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 2)


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Penetration (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Arcane Aid (Rank 1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Arcane Aid (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Arcane Aid (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Prodigy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Yellow Marigold Crown (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Frolic (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Virtuoso (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Reviving Verse (Rank 2)

voodoogroves
11-19-2013, 10:26 PM
Ok ... some things in a more or less random order.

If you want to spellcast and make things happen with spells, you probably want to go pure. Ditch SF enchant otherwise. Your songs will CC fine in epics. 16 bard is enough for Irresistible Dance, which works fine on most things that don't have spell resistance.

Song regen is cool, but it isn't all that. It can be found on items as well, and you'll have plenty of songs usually. You might consider Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 or Rogue 4 as breakpoints as well. Fighter 2 gets you some feats, Rogue 4 gets you a bit more sneak damage and Uncanny Dodge which is a short-term reflex / survivability buff.

15 Bard gets a pretty nifty song option in epic levels; worth staying at least that many levels to get. Bard 16 gets 6th level spells (a mass cure and irresitible dance).

You may have more CHA than you need. Those could go into DEX possibly, if you're worried about reflex saves.

A good feat load out might be ...

1 Power Attack, Cleave
3 Extend Spell
6 Great Cleave
9 Empower Healing
12 Improved Crit Blunt
15 Quicken Spell
18 WHATEVER - Force of Personality?

I'd try to eat a +2 INT tome before you TR - do you have one of these? You may find tomes are much easier to get currently. If you don't have a +2 INT tome yet, see if you have your 1750 favor award to turn in.

Hide/sneak is worth it - but I'd make sure you had points in Perform, Concentration, Search, Disable, UMD before sneak. If you have to choose, put points into move before hide (since you can invis which boosts hide).

Class order I'd probably go Rogue, then bard for maybe 7 levels, then 2nd rogue, then bard a while, etc. to help balance your skill points like you mention. If you're going to stay in epics, take the last rogue at 20. If you're going to TR immediately, take it at 18th.

You might want to replan some gear prior to TRing as well. What do you have in that department?

era42
11-19-2013, 10:35 PM
Any help would be much appreciated.

As the title hints about staff-wielding Acrobat, here's my take. Staffs got a big upgrade in the enhancement pass, but to take advantage, you want 5 levels of either Rogue or Monk. You should have a +20 lesser reinc heart in your inventory, you could just use that. Or if the stats arent horribly bad, just redo enhancements.

Something like 15bard/5rogue could work, possibly 13bard/5rogue/2monk or 12bard/6monk/2rogue. Tons of non-bard options, and more options if you forgo the Acro-prefix, but those 3 are my suggestions for now.

Sezneg
11-19-2013, 11:20 PM
Thank you for the help! I'm glad to hear that Songs are still good enough CC for that much content. That makes a larger rogue splash more viable. What does 15 bard get in epic levels?

BoBoDaClown
11-20-2013, 12:38 AM
Thank you for the help! I'm glad to hear that Songs are still good enough CC for that much content. That makes a larger rogue splash more viable. What does 15 bard get in epic levels?

Inspire Excellence - song +2 to all stats for party members.

Go 15/5 - sounds like your orginal plan, but will probably work better,

Check out the rogue enhancements - I think the tier 5 one gives you extended crit range on a staff.

You don't want too much charisma- you won't be landing spells anyway,

You should have a LR20 stone in your inventory, which will allow you to rebuild your character from the ground up.

sgz
11-20-2013, 01:42 AM
Something like 15bard/5rogue could work, possibly 13bard/5rogue/2monk or 12bard/6monk/2rogue. Tons of non-bard options, and more options if you forgo the Acro-prefix, but those 3 are my suggestions for now.

This is a good point to start from (how I'm currently reworking my bard life actually).
Bard15 is the minimum you need for Inspire Excellence; you also need Rog5 to get the max Tier of the acrobat prestige (for the increased crit range/multiplier).

So this combination just seems to fit well :)

Main question would be how fast you want the Tier4/5 abilities from the Acrobat prestige; either as soon as possible (meaning Bard7 Rog5 at L12) or if you want to stagger the Rogue levels to maximize skill allocation and get your L4/L5 spells earlier.

unbongwah
11-20-2013, 12:44 PM
I second the 15/5 split suggestion: that gets you Staff Spec from Acrobat and Inspire Heroics from bard, which in turn lets you take Excellence as one of your epic feats. Use your raider's box to give yourself a free Sireth if you don't already have one. :)

Stats: high STR, decent DEX & CON, enough INT for all the skill pts you want, rest into CHA.

Feats: Power Atk, Cleave, GC, IC:Blunt, Overwhelming Crit, Inspire Excellence. That leaves 4 heroic feats to play with; maybe THF chain + Extend? [Normally I like Quik+Emp Heal on my bards, but w/out MCMW & Heal, there's not as much incentive for them unless/until you pick up Rejuv Cocoon.]

Enhancements: at least 32 APs into Acrobat for Staff Spec. I prefer T4 SS to WC, so I would put ~25 APs into SS for core enhs, Sustaining Song, and Arcane Might. That leaves ~23 APs to spread between human (dmg boost, heal amp), WC (Skaldic, perhaps Song of Heroism), and Assassin (extra sneak atk).

eecsman
11-20-2013, 11:33 PM
While I agree a 15 bard / 5 rogue split probably has the highest dps, another option is 16 bard / 2 rogue / 2 cleric.

With this split you get 2 L6 spells (usually Otto's Irresistable Dance & Mass Cure Mod), heal as a class skill, and some nice Warpriest enhancements (Divine Might, Smite Foe, PRR). I personally think the Warchanter enhancements are junk, so only invest in the PRR (Physical Resistance Rating) enhancements, and go full Spellsinger for the SP song and extra SP. The WC plus Warpriest PRR enhancements sum to 16; add in a PRR augment, and you're at 30+, which helps a lot.

To make up (some) for not having the T5 Acrobat enhancements, you could TR into a Half-Orc, their THF enhancements will work on a staff. But Half-Orcs start with 6 INT, which makes skills tight without putting lots of points into starting INT. My bard Qstaff user is built like this, with the feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC:Blunt, Maximize, Empower Healing, Quicken, Overwhelming Critical, Inspire Excellence, +1 (soon to be 2 with level 30 coming) feats I haven't taken yet.

If/when you buy epic destinies, a good twist is A Dance of Flowers from the Monk ED Grandmaster of Flowers. It will add 1.5 to your base weapon damage. Although it requires you to be centered, and bards can't splash monk, what it really means it that you just have to qualify as being centered (no armor, no shield, monk weapon), not have monk levels and be centered.


But my best advice (if you can wait) is to try all these builds out yourself on Lamannia the next time it's open. In case you don't know, Lamannia now has the Test Dojo, where you can get free XP, TP, Hearts of Wood (for TR and LR), some decent named equipment, etc. Now that they sell TR/LR timer bypasses, you could try each of these builds out yourself, and see how you like them. Plus check out ddowiki.com for more details on anything we mentioned that's changed since you last played.

Kindaru
11-21-2013, 02:39 PM
As the title hints about staff-wielding Acrobat, here's my take. Staffs got a big upgrade in the enhancement pass, but to take advantage, you want 5 levels of either Rogue or Monk. You should have a +20 lesser reinc heart in your inventory, you could just use that. Or if the stats arent horribly bad, just redo enhancements.

Something like 15bard/5rogue could work, possibly 13bard/5rogue/2monk or 12bard/6monk/2rogue. Tons of non-bard options, and more options if you forgo the Acro-prefix, but those 3 are my suggestions for now.


Lawful bard, I think not.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Bard.

Sezneg
11-21-2013, 05:37 PM
I'm leaning towards the 15/5 Bard Rogue. I will stagger the levels to allow me maximum skill point flexibility.

Thanks for all the advice (the cleric splash build is something i may consider as well!).

jackabat
11-23-2013, 07:37 PM
Thank you for the help! I'm glad to hear that Songs are still good enough CC for that much content. That makes a larger rogue splash more viable. What does 15 bard get in epic levels?

Song of Capering is unfortunately slow cast now, for some terrible reason, so it's going to be much more awkward than you're used to. You may find issues with your songs not lasting near as long and not having near as many, as well. Something they did with enhancements really fouled up the math for that for deep virtuoso splashes.