PDA

View Full Version : FVS TWF melee Sun Elf



Nahiz
11-19-2013, 08:20 AM
I really like the False Hope Melee Soul, but since Christmas came earlier with 2 raider´s boxes, I am thinking on a build that could dual wield Celestias...

What do you think of a 18/2 FVS/fighter with TWF? Is it viable? I know THF is king right now, but I´ve been swinging a great axe for the last year and I´d like a change.

What about picking Morninglord iconic hero instead of human? I would be TRing into a 3rd life, so it would be a 36 pt build.

Cons: -2 con and 1 less feat
Pros: Enhancements (mainly Feywild Tap, though Aura of Radiance + Shield of Condemnation seems nice)

Is it worth it taking cleave+greater cleave on TWF aiming for Overwhelming Critical?

Thanks!

Ailia
11-19-2013, 11:12 AM
If your looking at doing Iconic divine with a fighter splash, look at using PDK, not morninglord. Effectively a human starting at 15 rather than a rather non-ideal elf. Extra feat, heal amp, and stacking damage + haste boost are all kind of a big deal for this type of build.

cleave/gcleave/oc line on top of power attack, twf line leaves room for 3 metas IIRC, should be doable, but don't get nearly as much benefit from the cleave setup with twf.

Matuse
11-19-2013, 04:54 PM
TWF works a lot better with Warpriest smiting, however.

voodoogroves
11-19-2013, 07:59 PM
And Phosphor has a fun crit range...

Braegan
11-19-2013, 09:07 PM
Hey,

Just my 2cp on what I would do to throw in the mix.

I would go 18 FvS/2 Monk, Half-Elf, Pally Dille.

36 pt. Assuming just a +2 dex tome, can shuffle points out of dex if you have higher tome tho bear in mind it can shuffle monk twf feat taken.

Str) 16 <- level ups here
Dex) 15
Con) 15
Int) 8
Wis) 8
Cha) 16

take monk at level 2 and 12.

feats

1) Maximize
M1) TWF
3) Empower/Empower Heal/Quality PL Feat?
6) Quicken
9) ITWF
12) IC: *Choice*
M2) PA
15) GTWF
18) Cleave
21) Grt Cleave
24) Overwhelming Crit
27) *not sure atm*


Most certainly viable and doable.

Nahiz
11-22-2013, 09:19 AM
Hey,

I would go 18 FvS/2 Monk, Half-Elf, Pally Dille.

1) Maximize
M1) TWF
3) Empower/Empower Heal/Quality PL Feat?
6) Quicken
9) ITWF
12) IC: *Choice*
M2) PA
15) GTWF
18) Cleave
21) Grt Cleave
24) Overwhelming Crit
27) *not sure atm*


I like the idea. Monk instead of fighter is just for evasion, right? Being a melee build with wis dumped, metamagic feats (maximize, empower, quicken) at early levels are just for heals or also for the ocassional offensive spell? I´m asking because I don´t think I´ll ever cast an offensive spell and I need to squeeze khopesh prof.

Matuse
11-22-2013, 09:57 AM
Evasion and two feats. Probably Toughness and TWF. There's also a couple of useful low-end monk enhancements you can take.

Empower/Maximize would be partly for the healing, but occasionally a Max/Emp Searing Light or Divine Punishment (neither of which has a save, so dumping Wis isn't important) is just what the doctor ordered...especially against Vampires. And no matter how much you like to melee, there are plenty of times when throwing down a blade barrier is by FAR the better route to take.

unbongwah
11-22-2013, 11:38 AM
Here's a nutty idea: if you're building around dual Celestias, what about drow monk 2 / FvS 18? SSs let you stay centered and drow / Vulkoor lets you take advantage of Wrathful Weapons.

Feats: must-haves are TWF x3, IC:Pierce, and Power Atk. That leaves 4 heroic and 3 epic feats free for, e.g., Emp/Max/Quik/Emp Heal, Adept & Master of Forms (use Earth stance for +1 crits), Blinding Speed. Or maybe drop a couple metas for CL+GC.

Enhancements: at least 35 APs into Warpriest (Smite Foe/Weakness, Divine Might, Ameliorating Strikes, Divine Vessel, Righteous+Wrathful Weapons), 20+ into AoV, 13 APs into Shintao for Deft Strikes (+10% offhands) & Iron Skin (+15 PRR), plus a few APs into Ninja. Leaves about 10 APs free to spread around.

Nahiz
12-03-2013, 05:54 PM
Here's a nutty idea: if you're building around dual Celestias, what about drow monk 2 / FvS 18?

This is a true master of shortswords. I think it`s a great idea. Only con I can think of is that I am a casual player and it takes me 10 months or so to get to lev23 on a 3rd life. I don`t know if such a focused build would be an easy fit for me. But I`ll probably do it all the same!

Rathic
12-03-2013, 08:15 PM
warpriest weapon line breaks celestia's Dr bypass

Braegan
12-03-2013, 08:38 PM
I like the idea. Monk instead of fighter is just for evasion, right? Being a melee build with wis dumped, metamagic feats (maximize, empower, quicken) at early levels are just for heals or also for the ocassional offensive spell? I´m asking because I don´t think I´ll ever cast an offensive spell and I need to squeeze khopesh prof.

Srry late responce but yeah monk is for evasion. Both monk and ftr give the needed two feats to make this kind of build work. But if I went a TWF route I would personally do a 2 monk splash with pally dille to try and squeze the most I could out.

Some feats taken early such as metas are taken because due to BAB you dont qualify for some other melee feats so those are taken sooner than later. If you want Khop, you can take that and shuffle everything down a tier in the feat list I provided, will still be very sound.

unbongwah
12-04-2013, 08:18 AM
warpriest weapon line breaks celestia's Dr bypass
Seriously?! :(

Matuse
12-13-2013, 06:54 PM
Seriously?!

Damned near everything breaks Celestia.

Here's what I came up with...80 AP isn't anywhere near enough to take all the goodies I wanted to. Sacrifices had to be made. This is off the cuff, so I'm sure there are improvements. Getting Warpriest Haste and the Archon from AoV makes this particularly challenging.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Neutral Drow Male
(2 Monk \ 18 Favored Soul \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 414
Spell Points: 2345
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 17
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 17 27
Dexterity 14 17
Constitution 14 17
Intelligence 12 15
Wisdom 10 14
Charisma 11 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by Vulkoor


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Favored Soul)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire


Level 8 (Favored Soul)


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 10 (Favored Soul)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Favored Soul)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Cold


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Favored Soul)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike
Enhancement: Drow - Spell Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Drow Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Ambidexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Drow - Ambidexterity (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Drow - Xen'drik Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Font of Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Shield of Condemnation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Aura of Menace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Summon Archon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Scourge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Smiting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Just Reward (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Angel of Vengeance (Fvs) - Efficient Quicken (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - War Domain: Haste (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Sacred Touch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Smite Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Saving Throws (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Inflame: Energy Absorption (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Fvs) - Divine Vessel (Rank 1)

Braegan
12-13-2013, 07:53 PM
Damned near everything breaks Celestia.

Here's what I came up with...80 AP isn't anywhere near enough to take all the goodies I wanted to. Sacrifices had to be made. This is off the cuff, so I'm sure there are improvements. Getting Warpriest Haste and the Archon from AoV makes this particularly challenging.



Looks pretty solid overall.

A couple points I saw at a glance...

You have Quicken Spell very late (lvl 24) for a LR that's fine, but for leveling I would suggest a path that allows that much sooner.

You have DM but only an 11 Cha to start. I see you invested a touch into Int (and I agree skills are needed more now then before) but you didn't detail your skill list. Is that needed or is there any way to trim points to boost Cha a bit. I know stats are spread much thinner for a TWF vs THF melee divine, but Cha really is nice to boost. Even taking points from STR can end up giving you a better overall package deal.

Matuse
12-14-2013, 12:07 AM
You have Quicken Spell very late (lvl 24) for a LR that's fine, but for leveling I would suggest a path that allows that much sooner.

Just to clarify: That's not a build I am or would play. It's just something to fulfill the requirement of a Celestia-wielding FvS.

Personally, I'd probably dump GTWF entirely, move ITWF to 18 and put Quicken lower, then take Extend.

RavenStormclaw
12-14-2013, 02:21 PM
I like the idea. Monk instead of fighter is just for evasion, right? Being a melee build with wis dumped, metamagic feats (maximize, empower, quicken) at early levels are just for heals or also for the ocassional offensive spell? I´m asking because I don´t think I´ll ever cast an offensive spell and I need to squeeze khopesh prof.

never cast an offensive spell? If that's the case make a different build. You would be doing yourself a disservice. Searing light has no save, divine punishment has no save, blade barrier is still useful even with an absolutely crappy DC, comet fall again is decent even with a bad DC for knocking casters down. If you never cast an offensive spell you are hurting the build.

Nahiz
12-16-2013, 10:23 AM
never cast an offensive spell? If that's the case make a different build. You would be doing yourself a disservice. Searing light has no save, divine punishment has no save, blade barrier is still useful even with an absolutely crappy DC, comet fall again is decent even with a bad DC for knocking casters down. If you never cast an offensive spell you are hurting the build.

Yes, Matuse has already pointed this out to me in a nice way. I have never played a divine before, so...

Thanks everybody for the advice. I´ve decided though, I´m not going to TR into a build only for the purpose of dualing Celestias. The drawbacks of such a focused build are too many for a casual player like me, not to mention it will be 10 months or so till i get to lev23.

I´ll be running Braegans excellent False Hope build instead (with some minor tweaks of my own). It is sturdier and fits perfectly my gaming style. And if I ever reach lev23, I can always LR to exchange pally for fighter or monk for the extra feats needed for 2wf.

Thanks again,
Nahiz.

Nahiz
02-13-2014, 10:44 AM
I just wanted to state that I finally followed Unbonwah advice for my short sword 2wf FVS and I took 2 levels of monk. Since I won´t be raiding much (only the occasional PUG), I also decided to take 1 level of fighter for the extra feat and the haste boost, losing mass heals. That extra feat is all I need to get Overwhelming Critical at lev24. It´s been a pleasent journey till now that I´m lev13. Let´s see how it fares on higher levels/epics.

Thanks again everybody for the advice.

Nahiz
03-05-2014, 10:47 AM
An update: I just hit 16 on my 13/2/1 fvs/monk/fighter drow dualing shortswords. DPS is really nice (at least for me) and survivability too. My reflex saves are not great though, so evasion is far from non fail, specially with traps :(

As I stated in another thread, I don´t think archon is worth de 10 ap it costs over aura of menace (those 10 ap could be better invested right now in haste boost, Ninja SA, etc.) but blade barrier... wow... with a lousy 21 DC (wisdom 16, iirc) it stills hits for 120-220 damage. It´s being a game breaker right now and for the first time I started using my sp for something else besides buffs and the occasional cure/heal.

Nodoze
03-05-2014, 08:54 PM
An update: I just hit 16 on my 13/2/1 fvs/monk/fighter drow dualing shortswords. DPS is really nice (at least for me) and survivability too. My reflex saves are not great though, so evasion is far from non fail, specially with traps :(

As I stated in another thread, I don´t think archon is worth de 10 ap it costs over aura of menace (those 10 ap could be better invested right now in haste boost, Ninja SA, etc.) but blade barrier... wow... with a lousy 21 DC (wisdom 16, iirc) it stills hits for 120-220 damage. It´s being a game breaker right now and for the first time I started using my sp for something else besides buffs and the occasional cure/heal.BB is really good for awhile but it starts loosing it's luster as you get into the epic levels (especially if you have a low DC).

The Archon is a great mana-efficent supplement to DPS but isn't a deal breaker for most builds. If you do go Exalted Angel Epic Destiny the Archon gives you an easy way to build up charges for Divine Wrath &/or Rebuke Foe. It can be done by other classes using other light spells but a FvS has a substantial edge as the Archon can build charges for you freeing you up for DPS and what not. We recently ran FoT with 5 FvS that all had Archons and one of the downsides is that the Archon will keep attacking enemies and picks the one with the lowest hit points in range... We twice had a prepped Giant in a Giant-Dragon pair get nuked by the Archons requiring us to prep all over again...