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Todkaninchen
11-16-2013, 03:36 PM
I'm noob to Paladin, but considering TRing something to it. As far as gear goes, are there any blades (short sword/long sword/bastard sword/etc.) that mesh particularly well with a basic sword and board Paladin build? Anything that particularly "clicks" with enhancements/spells/etc.?

If so, what's good to go after at particular levels?

So, things like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution) with all the Lawful Good alignment damage and Divine Vengeance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divine_Vengeance) which ties some power into Paladin Levels look interesting... but--from those who are Paladin fans--what works best for a sword and board paladin?

keowyn
11-16-2013, 08:57 PM
Dynastic Falcata, Chaosblade, Epic Chimera's Fang http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chimera%27s_Fang

Todkaninchen
11-16-2013, 10:02 PM
Dynastic Falcata, Chaosblade, Epic Chimera's Fang http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chimera%27s_Fang

On Chaosblade, I assume your builds include UMD?

Also, for the Epic Chimera's Fang... You use Dragonmarks or just an in general, all around use?

keowyn
11-16-2013, 11:54 PM
Well, the blades i mentioned are some of the blades you can work towards in your build, if you don't think you want UMD it is perfectly fine. For Epic Chimera's Fang you would need all 3 dragonmarks for it to shine. I also forgot to mention Oathblade http://ddowiki.com/page/Oathblade

Asmodeus451
11-17-2013, 12:06 AM
despite recently being nerfed, i still like Nightmare for a bsword user.

Asmodeus451
11-17-2013, 12:12 AM
For sword and board, Bastard Swords are probably best (Dwarven Axes if Dwarf)

if ur not looking to burn a feat on proficiency though, Scimitars are a good alternative, particularly for a Paladin (the wide crit profile means more Smite crits)

DrakHar
11-17-2013, 11:45 AM
I'm noob to Paladin, but considering TRing something to it. As far as gear goes, are there any blades (short sword/long sword/bastard sword/etc.) that mesh particularly well with a basic sword and board Paladin build? Anything that particularly "clicks" with enhancements/spells/etc.?

If so, what's good to go after at particular levels?

So, things like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution) with all the Lawful Good alignment damage and Divine Vengeance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divine_Vengeance) which ties some power into Paladin Levels look interesting... but--from those who are Paladin fans--what works best for a sword and board paladin?

Don't do sword and board, for the love of everything. It's unnecessary and terrible. Paladin in general is weak, sword and board is really really terrible. You'd get more mileage out of a rogue or monk splash with a couple fighter levels. Pure paladin is awful, bad, terrible, horrendous.

I did 3 paladin lives, and I love the class thematically, but it's the worst class outside of barbarian by a long shot at the moment.

Varashad
11-17-2013, 12:57 PM
Don't do sword and board, for the love of everything. It's unnecessary and terrible. Paladin in general is weak, sword and board is really really terrible. You'd get more mileage out of a rogue or monk splash with a couple fighter levels. Pure paladin is awful, bad, terrible, horrendous.

I did 3 paladin lives, and I love the class thematically, but it's the worst class outside of barbarian by a long shot at the moment.

You're playing your paladin wrong. A pally in Legendary Dreadnought tears up enemies just fine, BUT, unlike other pure class melees, they are 100% self sufficient in 95% of the game. I can run CitW without any healer support on my paladin provided we get our two shrines. They gain access to healing amp much more easily than other classes, have good access to PRR(my dual weapon pally is standing at 104 PRR with ease). If you're playing a paladin and expecting to break DPS records then yeah, prepare to be disappointed.

Back to the OPs question, assuming you're going to be sword and board, I recommend khopesh for leveling, and then switch off to bastard swords or rapiers at level 23. Balizarde is in my opinion the best one handed weapons in DDO. I don't know much about Nightmare(Which is considered another excelleny choice) since I haven't used it, but Balizarde has parrying 7, which grants +4 AC and +4 saves, good luck +2, which is +2 to all skills, saves, attack bonus, etc, and has a sick crit profile, of 15-20/x3, with solid damage profiles to boot.

Todkaninchen
11-17-2013, 01:43 PM
General:
* Khopesh (Crit range for smites) Requires: Khopesh Proficiency
* Bastard Sword (Glancing blows?) Requires: Bastard Sword Proficiency
* Dwarven Axes (Glancing blows?) Requires: Dwarf or Dwarven War Axe Proficiency
* Scimitar (Crit range for smites) Requires: Nothing.
Level 1:
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Level 8:
Level 9:
Level 10:
* Dynastica Falcata (http://ddowiki.com/page/Dynastic_Falcata) (Khopesh. Lawful Damage, Crit multiplier, STR or CHA for damage.) Requires: Khopesh Proficiency.
Level 11:
Level 12:
* Chaosblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Chaosblade) (Khopesh. Anarchic damage, Crit multiplier, lesser vampirism.) Requires: Khopesh Proficiency, UMD 20
Level 13:
Level 14:
Level 15:
Level 16:
Level 17:
Level 18:
Level 19:
Level 20:
* Oathblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Oathblade) (Longsword. Parrying VIII for AC/Saves, crit range, Lawful damage): Requires Nothing except PDK commendations.
* Epic Chimera's Fang (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Chimera%27s_Fang): (Bastard Sword. Boosted Threat, Fortification, and Enhancement level with Dragonmarks. Proficiency granted by Dragonmark.): Requires: Dragonmarks, esp. Sentinel.
Level 21:
Level 22:
Level 23:
* Balizarde, Protector of the King (http://ddowiki.com/page/Balizarde,_Protector_of_the_King) (Rapier. "parrying 7, which grants +4 AC and +4 saves, good luck +2, which is +2 to all skills, saves, attack bonus, etc, and has a sick crit profile, of 15-20/x3, with solid damage profiles to boot.") Requires: Nothing.
* Nightmare, the Fallen Moon (http://ddowiki.com/page/Nightmare,_the_Fallen_Moon) (Bastard Sword. Glancing blows, expanded crit range.) Requires: Bastard Sword Proficiency
Level 24:
Level 25:
Level 26:
Level 27:
Level 28:


For sword and board, Bastard Swords are probably best (Dwarven Axes if Dwarf)

if ur not looking to burn a feat on proficiency though, Scimitars are a good alternative, particularly for a Paladin (the wide crit profile means more Smite crits)

So a primary focus is criticals with Smite?

Does that damage change with multipliers? (so a higher multiplier is as important as threat range) Or is just a set amount of extra damage on criticals?


despite recently being nerfed, i still like Nightmare for a bsword user.

How was it nerfed?

Also, of the swords I mentioned in my first post plus the bastard sword (and dwarven axe from Spinners), would any of you recommend those or would you still stay with the more exotic blades so far?

Krelar
11-17-2013, 01:59 PM
So a primary focus is criticals with Smite?

Does that damage change with multipliers? (so a higher multiplier is as important as threat range) Or is just a set amount of extra damage on criticals?


It is added to the base damage of the attack so it is effected by multipliers.



How was it nerfed?


The level drain used to go off on every critical hit, now it is a "chance" to go off. I haven't seen exhaustive testing yet but some people think its as low as 20-30% chance.



Also, of the swords I mentioned in my first post plus the bastard sword (and dwarven axe from Spinners), would any of you recommend those or would you still stay with the more exotic blades so far?

It's probably easier to get than some of the others so not a terrible choice until you find something better.

Another high level (and lower level if you run the chain on heroic) bastard sword to consider is the first blood from the shadowfell expansion (Thrill of the hunt quest). When I was doing comparisons it wasn't quite as good as nightmare but it's not that bad if you don't have other items with doublestrike already.

SisAmethyst
11-17-2013, 02:35 PM
I'm noob to Paladin, but considering TRing something to it. As far as gear goes, are there any blades (short sword/long sword/bastard sword/etc.) that mesh particularly well with a basic sword and board Paladin build? Anything that particularly "clicks" with enhancements/spells/etc.?

If so, what's good to go after at particular levels?

So, things like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution) with all the Lawful Good alignment damage and Divine Vengeance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divine_Vengeance) which ties some power into Paladin Levels look interesting... but--from those who are Paladin fans--what works best for a sword and board paladin?

At low levels, most likely two handed, independent if you will later go with two weapon fighting, which in other words mean: +2 Greataxe Carnifex

In case of THF in general Falchions due to their crit. profile. Also keeping in mind that a Paladin is feat starving so there isn't much room for taking an extra feat for things like Khopesh or Bastard Sword. Otherwise you could go Dwarve and use Dwarven Axes like the Templar's Justice (+4, Cold Iron, Holy Burst, Incandescence, Godly Wrath).

Despite it's age and outdated nature, I advise you to read the excellent forum Post from Junts A Guide to Creating Paladins (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/218542-A-Guide-to-Creating-Paladins)

PS: In epic levels still nothing beats the Epic Sword of Shadows, however it is a pain to get, followed second by weapons like the Epic Antique Greataxe.

Todkaninchen
11-17-2013, 03:47 PM
It's probably easier to get than some of the others so not a terrible choice until you find something better.

Another high level (and lower level if you run the chain on heroic) bastard sword to consider is the first blood from the shadowfell expansion (Thrill of the hunt quest). When I was doing comparisons it wasn't quite as good as nightmare but it's not that bad if you don't have other items with doublestrike already.

Crit range too, it looks like.

Interesting.


At low levels, most likely two handed, independent if you will later go with two weapon fighting, which in other words mean: +2 Greataxe Carnifex

In case of THF in general Falchions due to their crit. profile. Also keeping in mind that a Paladin is feat starving so there isn't much room for taking an extra feat for things like Khopesh or Bastard Sword. Otherwise you could go Dwarve and use Dwarven Axes like the Templar's Justice (+4, Cold Iron, Holy Burst, Incandescence, Godly Wrath).

Despite it's age and outdated nature, I advise you to read the excellent forum Post from Junts A Guide to Creating Paladins (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/218542-A-Guide-to-Creating-Paladins)

PS: In epic levels still nothing beats the Epic Sword of Shadows, however it is a pain to get, followed second by weapons like the Epic Antique Greataxe.

Skimmed the page you suggested. Starting to get worried about trying to build a paladin. *Grin* I mostly play trappers (rogue mechs/arti's), monks, and the occasional bard or wizard and I'm sort of addicted to skills and feats.

Building a paladin sounds a lot more austere.

Probably why I'm asking stuff like this first before trying to make one.

(My only problem is I keep only running halflings...)

DrakHar
11-18-2013, 08:46 AM
You're playing your paladin wrong. A pally in Legendary Dreadnought tears up enemies just fine, BUT, unlike other pure class melees, they are 100% self sufficient in 95% of the game. I can run CitW without any healer support on my paladin provided we get our two shrines. They gain access to healing amp much more easily than other classes, have good access to PRR(my dual weapon pally is standing at 104 PRR with ease). If you're playing a paladin and expecting to break DPS records then yeah, prepare to be disappointed.

Back to the OPs question, assuming you're going to be sword and board, I recommend khopesh for leveling, and then switch off to bastard swords or rapiers at level 23. Balizarde is in my opinion the best one handed weapons in DDO. I don't know much about Nightmare(Which is considered another excelleny choice) since I haven't used it, but Balizarde has parrying 7, which grants +4 AC and +4 saves, good luck +2, which is +2 to all skills, saves, attack bonus, etc, and has a sick crit profile, of 15-20/x3, with solid damage profiles to boot.


I'm not playing DDO wrong. Compared to other melee melee not named barbarian, the DPS is poor. That is your number one job if you aren't a crowd controller or instant killer. And you said it "My dual weapon pally".

I didn't say don't play a paladin. I said they aren't tht good DPS. If you're going to o a paladin, dual wield, do not sword and board. I enjoyed my paladin lives enough, and yes I know they keep themselves alive. As do rangers. Rogues and fighters and monks can too. Really, except the b word I mentioned above, self sufficency isn't too hard.

Like I said, my advice wasn't don't go paladin - it was don't sword and board. Sword and board is unecessary, not paladins.

And i agree, go khopesh until you can use balizardes. Balizardes basically make khopesh irrelevant as they are like khopeshes, except with actual good enchantments. Oh, and you get a feat bck.

Edit: Nightmare sucks, don't use it.
With the nerf, it isn't the best for killing trash. And its always been **** against bosses, so ifit isn't good against trash, just use the balizardes.

Ralmeth
11-18-2013, 09:14 AM
In general, you want to use weapons with large crit ranges so that your smites and divine sacrifices have a better chance to crit. If you fight THF, you'll want to look for falchions. If you fight S&B, scimitars and khopeshes are good. If you pick up the THF chain then bastard sword so you get splash damage while S&B.

keowyn
11-18-2013, 10:28 AM
In general, you want to use weapons with large crit ranges so that your smites and divine sacrifices have a better chance to crit. If you fight THF, you'll want to look for falchions. If you fight S&B, scimitars and khopeshes are good. If you pick up the THF chain then bastard sword so you get splash damage while S&B.

best related advice without digressing into whether you should play your paladin using TWF or S&B.

also, i think there is no need to try and get a new weapon at every level, and perhaps between 12-20 you can farm a GS khopesh until Oathblade & EFang. hope this helps!

Livmo
11-18-2013, 10:38 AM
It is added to the base damage of the attack so it is effected by multipliers.



The level drain used to go off on every critical hit, now it is a "chance" to go off. I haven't seen exhaustive testing yet but some people think its as low as 20-30% chance.



It's probably easier to get than some of the others so not a terrible choice until you find something better.

Another high level (and lower level if you run the chain on heroic) bastard sword to consider is the first blood from the shadowfell expansion (Thrill of the hunt quest). When I was doing comparisons it wasn't quite as good as nightmare but it's not that bad if you don't have other items with doublestrike already.

Yep I put down my repeater and ran heavily with Nightmare before update and again yesterday. The sword level drains a whole lot less. Still very effective, but not as fun. I ran Heroic Elite thru EE and I notice the difference in all levels of difficulty.

deathblaze
11-19-2013, 05:52 AM
I'm currently testing out a doublestrike evasion S&B build with First Blood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:First_Blood).
15/3/2 Paladin/Monk/Fighter
Get Prof:BS, all THF and Shield Mastery feats. Tower shield in 1 hand and First Blood in the other.
Tears through everything pretty quickly in Legendary Dreadnought ED with cleavage spam.
~45% sustainable doublestrike, great for smites and glancing.
I'd say the DPS is comparable to a general TWF build.
Can swap to TH-weapons easily and as compared to TWF, it's easier to build in terms of stats (no need to sacrifice str/cha/con for dex).
Also, you don't need to sacrifice DPS for survivability in case you need to tank a raid or something.

BUT...
This is a really niche play-style and having said all that, I still prefer going TWF for Paladin if you want DPS.
Paladin DPS isn't poor, especially if you build it right.
It just isn't as easy to get the numbers you'd like as compared to other classes.

bsquishwizzy
11-19-2013, 01:49 PM
Don't do sword and board, for the love of everything. It's unnecessary and terrible. Paladin in general is weak, sword and board is really really terrible. You'd get more mileage out of a rogue or monk splash with a couple fighter levels. Pure paladin is awful, bad, terrible, horrendous.

First, if you are a new player, you’re not usually going to go into multi-classing, or even understand it properly.

Second, pure paladin on a two-hander is worse than S&B in my opinion. You don’t do even remotely enough damage that compensates for being mauled in the process. This is especially true now that your PRR and AC enhancements are directly tied to having a shield.

Third, S&B is *passable* (not good or mediocre, but passable) DPS if you do it right.

bsquishwizzy
11-19-2013, 02:13 PM
I'm noob to Paladin, but considering TRing something to it. As far as gear goes, are there any blades (short sword/long sword/bastard sword/etc.) that mesh particularly well with a basic sword and board Paladin build? Anything that particularly "clicks" with enhancements/spells/etc.?

If so, what's good to go after at particular levels?

So, things like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Retribution) with all the Lawful Good alignment damage and Divine Vengeance (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divine_Vengeance) which ties some power into Paladin Levels look interesting... but--from those who are Paladin fans--what works best for a sword and board paladin?

Divine Vengeance is very nice from about lvl 18 to around lvl 22. I use it with the shield from that series (Vengeful Protector, I think).

Aside from that, your best bet is to get your hands on a vorpal weapon. One of the better weapons I’ve had – hands down – was a Poison Scimitar of Virulent CON Poison (random loot). With a True Seeing item equipped, it was a self-healing caster cure-all for my pally. The two poisons knocked down their CON making them disabled, while I hacked away at them. So, something that double-damages CON is a good thing. Worked well all the way up and through Kings Forest until I got Oathblade.

When you start hitting lvl 14 and above, look for Vorpals, Banishers, Disruptors, and Smiters. Go with either Khopesh or Scimitar for the crits. It helps quite a bit.

Nicked Long Sword at lower levels is nice along with Blade of Inquisition as an all-around undead beater. I’d also include the Nicked Heavy Mace in that list for the 3% stun it inflicts (virtually no-fail at lower levels). Enduring Conviction is a ML 14 devil / demon beater. Then there is the Greensteel MIN II/III or 3x good weapons from The Shroud that are maybe worth pursuing.

Aside from that, I went with mainly random loot for most of my weapons until about lvl 16.

HastyPudding
11-20-2013, 01:25 AM
It might be unconventional, but the Twinblade from the tome of legend turn-ins in the orchard is pretty strong. Of course, it gives you a negative level (which isn't much, really, if you look at it statistically), but the damage you can deal with it in addition to having both a red and purple slot is amazing.

Todkaninchen
12-02-2013, 01:42 PM
best related advice without digressing into whether you should play your paladin using TWF or S&B.

also, i think there is no need to try and get a new weapon at every level, and perhaps between 12-20 you can farm a GS khopesh until Oathblade & EFang. hope this helps!

If I did decide to TR to paladin, I had planned on farming most of the blades and/or crafting a GS item before TRing. Sort of a thing I do, making sure I have some decent weapons and maybe armor (or dragon scales) before TRing to a new class.


Divine Vengeance is very nice from about lvl 18 to around lvl 22. I use it with the shield from that series (Vengeful Protector, I think).

Aside from that, your best bet is to get your hands on a vorpal weapon. One of the better weapons I’ve had – hands down – was a Poison Scimitar of Virulent CON Poison (random loot). With a True Seeing item equipped, it was a self-healing caster cure-all for my pally. The two poisons knocked down their CON making them disabled, while I hacked away at them. So, something that double-damages CON is a good thing. Worked well all the way up and through Kings Forest until I got Oathblade.

When you start hitting lvl 14 and above, look for Vorpals, Banishers, Disruptors, and Smiters. Go with either Khopesh or Scimitar for the crits. It helps quite a bit.

Nicked Long Sword at lower levels is nice along with Blade of Inquisition as an all-around undead beater. I’d also include the Nicked Heavy Mace in that list for the 3% stun it inflicts (virtually no-fail at lower levels). Enduring Conviction is a ML 14 devil / demon beater. Then there is the Greensteel MIN II/III or 3x good weapons from The Shroud that are maybe worth pursuing.

Aside from that, I went with mainly random loot for most of my weapons until about lvl 16.

One of my monks has a set of Shock of Virulent (CON) Poison that eventually replaced my Night's Grasp wraps until I started using Stonedust/Grave Wrappings/Antipode for stunning fist. The Slaver's Hand Crossbow is on my epic or ex-epic repeater users and is essentially a named weapon with those procs (and nightshade venom) and is freaking awesome on everything but bosses. So, if I could find those, I would so do it.

Although, both my arti's are actually rocking wounding of puncturing repeaters (one found, one crafted) and I could see if I could craft a lower level WoP blade for that purpose if I actually did TR to paladin...

On further analysis though, I'm probably not TRing to paladin, at least soon. It's a pretty radical shift for me in terms of play style and building (low skills, low feat choices, etc.). I did just get the Shadowfell expansion and the Purple Dragon Knight iconic though. I might (on a server I don't usually play) spend some time trying out fighter 1/paladin 14 builds to get the hang of the play style and building though.

Thank you for your contributions, BTW. They were informative and pretty useful for a noob to paladins. *grin*